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Raven at her best (that means also when she looses control because of trigon) Vs Superman

Doesnt raven destory the world so she should take superman

Raven with Trigon Neuters the man of steel. She is unstopable with that power

What's Raven's power? I've seen like 4 episodes of Teen Titans and know nothing about them comic-wise. It looks like she's doing Green Lantern stuff except with black energy.

From what I see in the cartoon, Raven sucks at battles.

Her power is fueled by her emotion, she got pissed one time and made this huge black gaping hole and almost sucked this guy in.... under her robe... thing. She like turned into satan.

... I thought it was a little suggestive but hey, thats just me.

I'm remembering her sucking Robin into a wall when she was spooked by the scary movie. I can only assume Robin died in the wall and wasn't brought back later in the episode to explain why Raven was subconciously making the monsters.

Based soley on that, I'll go with Raven.

Ya... Raven can pretty much do anything her emotions are.

I'd give it to raven, when shes mad she's unstoppable

Like the time when she was so very pissed off and 'kicked Terra's ass' right?

She can pull me under her robe anytime.

Eh. Raven is not unstoppable. If she was, she wouldn't just be hanging around with the Teen Titans would she? Superman's experience alone should give him a victory, he's faced much worse than Raven.

magic is one of the things that affects superman. With all her knowledge of spells and magic stuff then she should win

That's true. I dunno, I don't buy that Raven's powers increase with her emotions. Sounds like a magical Hulk to me. If she's one of those 'limitless power' characters, I reaaaallly don't feel like debating it.

I must ask again, are we using comic or animated versions, cause it makes a big difference to the debate?

Hmm, I dunno. I was thinking comic Superman and tv Raven, but I suppose they should both be one or the other.

Comic version but i have no idea why people think superman in the cartoon cant beat little raven when terra almost killed her

They're probably thinking Raven in bloodlust mode, that's why. But, if you put Superman in that same mode, you can say goodbye to Raven.

Blood Lust mode, That sounds sick I need to catch up on the comics.

Bloodlust mode isn't really specific to comics. It's a term we use in most forums, which pretty much applied to threads like this to say the character's going all out, with no worries about killing.

Yeah, assuming that Superman going all out would use his speed, hard to pretend Raven could do anything.

raven could still hurt him

How?

superman is super vulnerable to magic!!!!! Raven knows a lot of magic which gives her the upper hand!

Know what Raven is super vulnerable to? Getting punched into outer space before she is able to even think the word "magic".

if raven could get a few powerful shots in then she might win

Well yeah, MAYBE if she got int a few good shots. But Superman's not just going to stand and wait for her to strike first if he was really trying to beat her would he?

I think he would. I mean, he's not a bloodthirsty savage. If she didn't do anything to him yet, he'd have not reason to attack her since she's a girl, let alone a teenage girl.

I agree. Assuming this weren't one of the KMC Comic Book Versus threads where (unless otherwise stated) each character will do whatever it takes to come out on top, than Superman would wait until his very existence were threatened before he attacked a Teen Titan, let alone a teen girl. However, that's not the case in this battle.

...Thats stupid. That is not superman. That's just some lunatic who has superman's powers. What makes these versus threads interesting is taking all things into consideration.

I'm just giving you what I understand to be the guidelines of the forum. If the person who made this thread had stated that all of Superman's and Raven's character traits should be taken into consideration, than it changes things.

He's right laydiiplayette, it's in the new rules I just put in last night, check them out. Unless it's specified that they're both in character, we're can assume that they're willing to go all out to win.

ic...

I'd say Raven. After all, her powers are magical and Superman is very vulnerable to magic. So yeah, Raven wins this one.

Would you QUIT voting for freaking Raven, chilled monkey?
OMG. Every post "Id say raven" Can you tell us why you do?

Superman would punch her ONCE, and shes splattered on a wall!

Supes can move faster than the speed of thought. Much much faster. If they were going all out to win, Raven wouldn't have a chance to SEE a red mist and gain awesome power... she'd BECOME a red mist, from a light speed punch....

Dragon: I am just stating my opinion. No harm intended. I admit I'm a Raven fan, but I'm not ridiculously biased. If there was a match that I felt she couldn't win, I would not post otherwise.

In this case, I think so because:

a) Superman is vulnerable to magical entities.

b) Superman is not extremely ruthless. As stated in the forum rules, we're assuming that this is the 'regular' Superman (i.e. not being brainwashed into killing etc). Superman always holds back, it's in his nature. He has a code against killing.

superman is going all out...

he'd squash raven before she could use her magic...

idk about this one- if he is going all out then raven loses no questions asked. If he is his regular self then I'd say raven wins because A) he is super vulnerable to magic and B) Raven always kinda goes all out to win so she'd try to take him down right away.

Well, I know Superman is vulnerable to magic, but alot of Raven's magic is basically telekinesis: she can pick things up and throw them with her magic. I rarely, if ever, see her casting spells in a battle, and I'm not convinced that any magic she knows would be all that useful. But I could definitely be wrong, so could any give an example of when she's done something different in a fight?

And even if Superman is not going all out and he's holding back the full extent of his powers, he wouldn't just stand there and watch as Raven trys to kill him would he? Not if he was trying to win. He moves fast enough that he should be able to dodge anything Raven throws at him. After that, there are a variety of ways he could incapacitate Raven without killing her (since Superman is not a killer).

Raven wins.

Superman's two weaknesses, Kryptonite and Magic.

Raven would put a collar and leash on Superman, and make him her *****.

Kinda like that Drawn Together episode with Foxy Love and Captain Hero.

superman fought people with majic and has won so please. Superman doesnt loose so easy. In a raven vs superman fight, all i can say after that fight they better call child abuse on supes.

ha ha

Right, and he doesn't get his ass beat down by Captain Marvel on a regular basis, right?

Superman beating anyone with a good control over magic is bullshit, and the writer should be ****ing ashamed of themselves.

And this is coming from a Superman fan.

Sorry chilled, I just got annoyed because there was a sudden burst of raven threads, and in like all 5 of them you just said "Raven"
Sorry dude.

No problem.

What magic does Raven have? I have never seen her use anything other than that "azarath blah blah blah". Does she know any useful magic beyond this that can help her win a fight?

Telekinesis.
Healing
Flight/levitation
Can generate 'shadow energy' fields to block enemy attacks or to restrain people.
Can change into a shadow form to pass through solid objects (walls etc). She can also move others in this way.
Empathy (possible low-level telepathy)

Sorry if I missed anything.

Just like to add:

Can shape the 'shadow energy' into blades
Above-average hand-to-hand-combatant

That doesnt mean superman cant break through her little shields with a simple 1000 class punch.

Theres a certain level powers can withstand, her powers are weak and just developing, you think her little shields can resist superman's power? Also, at a adult level with many years of training, she may stand a chance, but her powers are weak compared to the big guys.

See, it's like I thought; Raven is not some magician with a variety of spells at her disposal. Those little 'shadow energy' fields she creates won't hold Superman back for a second, let alone hurt or kill him, and heck, they wouldn't even TOUCH him if he didn't want them to. The one thing that I think raven could do in this scenario is use that teleporting-ish thing where she dissappears into a shadow and can reappear somewhere else. Supes might be nice enough to let her escape to the Uzbekistan or somewhere for a while.

Raven is the spawn of a ****ing demon god. To think that her abilities is limited to healing and moving inanimate objects is just stupid. She limits herself, she is not limited by much else. When Trigon(her father) and her teamed up, it took the entire Teen Titans and the Justic League combined to stop them.

Three guesses as to who is on the Justice League of America. (hint hint, he wears a red cape and has a huge 'S' on his chest)

Well, I'll check, but I don't think Raven is allowed to call up her dad to help her fight.

...Yep definitely not.

Raven does not have almost unlimited power. If you're going to suggest that she does because she has shown some signs of being able to exceed her usual power levels, than I'm just going to say that Superman could use his waaaay superior speed to kill her before she has a chance to do anything, even though he rarely if ever uses it.

You don't think 2 characters taking on two entire teams is a feat? Let's average that out, shall we? That makes an entire hero team for each character. That's Raven taking an entire hero team by herself.

This match is a one on one. You can't say Raven doesn't have a chance. Also, being that Superman's ****ing weakness is magic, that only boosts Raven's chances.

Right, almost destroying the planet is "some signs of exceeding her usual power level"

So your'e saying that if a team of (for example) Thanos and Jubilee could defeat the Justice League and the Teen Titans, than that would average out to Jubilee being able to destroy the JL? Neither you nor anyone can say how the fight would have gone if Trigon had not been there.

Yeah, you continue to say that Superman is vulnerable to magic. Thing is, at her normal level her magic is not going to be nearly enough to take Superman. If you put Raven at her highest level, she MIGHT be able to win, but thats assuming that Superman is not put at HIS highest level. If he was, there is only a select group of characters (Raven not included) that could defeat him.

Right, and Superman couldn't destroy the planet if he really wanted to

the adult Dark Raven could beat the Sh*t out of the regular Supes.

Yeah, maybe she could, but that's taking her out of context. Like saying "Superman Prime could beat the sh*t out of regular Raven"

lol, I like this. Seems to be a one sided argument.

People are making a big thing about Superman's vulnerability to magic. Why is no-one making a big thing about Raven's vulnerability to near light-speed punches, scorching heat beams, insta-freeze breath, etc etc...?

People like Raven cos she's dark and gothic - and it's fashionable to like thoser things. But being cool doesn't help you when someone throws a mountain at you...

And Nigel - you're right: Supes could demolish the planet if he wanted, lol.

I really don't see why everyone gives current raven in the comics so much credit, or even the one on tv. If raven fought superman (the current version of both) it would be a very short fight. Based on skill and experience alone. You can't even compare supes to raven. You need to be talking about someone on Dr. fates level or zatanna to stand a chance. And even then you better catch him off guard, because superman was made to be invincible.

Actually, I said something right along those lines about a page back, lol.

And ebonyblade, you've got it right. You need to be up in the Fate or Zatanna levels before you would even know how to beat Superman with magic.

I cant believe people think Raven could take superman.

Then I guess you haven't seen Raven in action in Season 4 finale
three-parter. In the last part she defeated her father, Trigon
with the help of the others.

Well superman stop sickos that blow up planets atleast twice a weak....with no help.

Originally posted by freezedoom
Then I guess you haven't seen Raven in action in Season 4 finale
three-parter. In the last part she defeated her father, Trigon
with the help of the others. OH MY GOD! YOU JUST RUINED IT FOR ME YOU JERK!crybaby

Raven rapes Superman no matter what. Even Prime

the cartoon way over exaggerates. prime example: cyborg lifted a building and hit plasmus with it. a LARGE building. and swung it like you would swing a baseball bat. and comic raven sux, died like three times.

I've got quite a few Titans comics. She RARELY does anything impressive.

Usually she just uses her empath powers to help/heal people.

In combat, she usually just lets her big black spirit-self raven shape come out and protect people from projectiles, like a big living shield.

Superman would cave her head in before she could react.

She's powerful, sure - but she's not up to GL standard.

And it's debatable whether (knite trick aside) a GL could easily defeat Supes.

exactly/\

"cyborg lifted a building and hit plasmus with it. a LARGE building."

When does this happen. Umm i think i given away my secret admiration for the Teen Titans cartoon. I thinks its those kinky Asian chicks who sing the theme tune. Nice

first episode of "the end". after that plas passes out for two secs and then gets back up

What? Hi HI Puffy Ami Yumi?

They're absolute weirdoes.......

lol!

Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
first episode of "the end". after that plas passes out for two secs and then gets back up

lol in thsoe eps raven stopped time, raven moved two buildings to crush slade, raven defeated all the titans in that ep with ease, but yet robin beat her 2 seasons ago.

Superman easily his speed is the factor

Indeed.

"What? Hi HI Puffy Ami Yumi?

They're absolute weirdoes.......

lol!"

Mann dont disss the Hi HI Puffy Ami Yumi.... chicks. They are the best!!!!!! Mann just thinking of them singing that song with their sexy little voices

droolio

every thing about that show is to stocked. like batarangs that turn into swords, three supervillains fusing into one for no reason and they take it and an army of robots easily even though they had trouble with the same villains themselves, and those british robots that in the beginning of the episode they cant touch two of them, but in the end theyre annihilating them, and deathstroke isnt a merc and doesnt have guns, but still beats them.

They sound like five year old.....

You sicko.....



lol!

Oh - just to announce to everyone: I get married in three weeks!!!

Woohooo!!!! drunk

Originally posted by EsteemedLeader
every thing about that show is to stocked. like batarangs that turn into swords, three supervillains fusing into one for no reason and they take it and an army of robots easily even though they had trouble with the same villains themselves, and those british robots that in the beginning of the episode they cant touch two of them, but in the end theyre annihilating them, and deathstroke isnt a merc and doesnt have guns, but still beats them.


lol i noticed. like the fire things in recent eps, they took out 5000000 without getting bruned, and they dont look tired. Then one comes along and muders them. Why would trigun have such weak things that explode after u touch it.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
They sound like five year old.....

You sicko.....



lol!

Oh - just to announce to everyone: I get married in three weeks!!!

Woohooo!!!! drunk

cool stuff zeph I wish you all the best mate

Cheers dude.

Anyway peeps. I'll cya all tomorrow - I'm tired from work and one drink has just knocked me out lol!

Need some shuteye.

Night night people!

"cool stuff zeph I wish you all the best mate"

here here, good luck mate. sweat

supes would own her. if theyre fighting in his reality she sucks. if their fighting in the titans reality, he would get P.I.S. and she would suck compared to him

Originally posted by yahman
"What? Hi HI Puffy Ami Yumi?

They're absolute weirdoes.......

lol!"

Mann dont disss the Hi HI Puffy Ami Yumi.... chicks. They are the best!!!!!! Mann just thinking of them singing that song with their sexy little voices

droolio

-_-;;;;. They are the most dried up, wannabe popular again singers. They were popular when I was in kindergarten...

What the hell is this. how people say Raven wins....Fanboys.

Who the hell are hi hi puffy ami yumi?

Originally posted by long pig
Who the hell are hi hi puffy ami yumi?

the bitches that song the teen titans theme song

"They are the most dried up, wannabe popular again singers. They were popular when I was in kindergarten..."

LOL
how can you say thing s like this about the

'hi hi puffy ami yumi? chicks. Mann they're so good. I find it hard not to stop dancing when that tune comes on. But i never realy fncied them until they showed there video.

They're 30-somethings who sound like five year olds and dress up like 70's throwbacks.

They're awful.

As is all Japanese pop.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

And as for this thread... I'll say it again...

Why do people go on about Superman's relative weakness to magic....


Yet they don't mention Raven's massive weakness to....

Burning heat vision at XXXXXdegrees celcius.

Insta-freeze breath at minus XXXdegrees celcius.

Suffocation due to all the air in the vicinity being removed by Supes super-lungs.

Death from internal bleeding as Superman claps his hands tgether, creates a sonic boom that liquefies her internal organs.

Having a mountain dropped on her.

Etc etc and, indeed, etc.

The way I see it is, if Supes really wants to kill her...

He appears next to her faster than the eye can see... and flicks her forehead with one finger....

BANG!!!

Raven could not feasibly win this in any comic, without some serious PIS.

Thankyou.

Raven owned pretty much the entire Titans team in a recent comic.

Aside from the recent Trigon stuff, TV Raven is small-time compared to her comic self. And forget that "Metria Zinthos" crap...that can help her concentrate, but if she wants to do stuff, she thinks about it and it happens. She's displayed telepathy (she has controlled more than one person rather easily), powerful telekinesis, teleportation (which would come in handy if that mountain Zephro just mentioned got dropped on her), and random other magic related powers...and is consistently the most powerful Titan when she needs to be (comics...not tv).

So sure, if Supes speed blitzes here, it's over. I agree there. But in the time it takes to get pissed and decide to fight, Raven could protect herself (similar to any GL, who would lose to a speed-blitz but might beat Supes otherwise). And if she has thrown buildings around, throwing Supes around won't be much harder. Add in his weakness to magic, and while it might be hella-hard to kill him, she has as much chance as he does of pulling out the win.

-DM

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Raven owned pretty much the entire Titans team in a recent comic.

Aside from the recent Trigon stuff, TV Raven is small-time compared to her comic self. And forget that "Metria Zinthos" crap...that can help her concentrate, but if she wants to do stuff, she thinks about it and it happens. She's displayed telepathy (she has controlled more than one person rather easily), powerful telekinesis, teleportation (which would come in handy if that mountain Zephro just mentioned got dropped on her), and random other magic related powers...and is consistently the most powerful Titan when she needs to be (comics...not tv).

So sure, if Supes speed blitzes here, it's over. I agree there. But in the time it takes to get pissed and decide to fight, Raven could protect herself (similar to any GL, who would lose to a speed-blitz but might beat Supes otherwise). And if she has thrown buildings around, throwing Supes around won't be much harder. Add in his weakness to magic, and while it might be hella-hard to kill him, she has as much chance as he does of pulling out the win.

-DM

People. Raven at her best is basically her soulself. A friggin ghost. And her powers are amplified to the max. Superman can't hurt a ghost. Raven (at her best) wins easily.