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Superman Prime runs into Dark Phoenix who's about to consume the Super Sun a.k.a. Prime's home. What happens?

She absorbs the Sun, and all of Prime's energy.

I say dark phoenix

What if she decided to battle him instead of absorbing the sun? Could he beat her?

Prime would kill her ten billion times before she could absorb any solar energy.

no form of superman could even be worthy to shine phoenixs shoes

Prime isn't beating Dark Phoenix. There's a big difference between soaking up sunlight for 800+ cenuries to charge a biomatrix and being an immortal damn near omipotent primal cosmic force of life and fire that snapped and went evil.

Phoenix took down D'Ken after he had merged with the M'Krann crystal and become one with the universe. I think she can take a sunbathing Superman. Dark Phoenix mindwipes are permanent.

Well, he can warp time and space.

ha!

When Superman doesn't want anyone in his head, no one is going in.

she wouln't even need in his head to blast him into nothingness

He spins her powers away, then spins again to make her into a fruit pie.

A HOSTESS fruit pie.

The greatest weapon known to man! No one can resist the golden flakey goodness of a Hostess fruit pie!

The Phoenix can fly and move at lightspeed. That's faster than Superman, (I don't know what Prime's speed is.) She could certainly absorb his energy.

David Duchovny, is there anyone that can beat Superman in your opinion?

this is an unfair fight

Easily lightspeed.

Dark Phoenix.

nah Supes Prime....I would think never.

For the purpose of debating...

The Phoenix Force amplifies its host's abilities to infinite levels. Therefore, Jean Grey as Dark Phoenix is capable of...beyond god level telepathy, telekinesis, pyrokinesis, molecular rearrangement, light-speed, et cetera.

what about Supes Prime...I heard he was god like too. Tell bout him "Never" I don't really know much on him...do you?

http://captain.custard.org/geo_old/jfiles/teamsuperman.html

thanks I'll "Never" forget it.

Prime is a god. Still, Phoenix devours stars. Superman Prime is just a living star for Dark Phoenix to drain. Dark Phoenix wins.

Mainstream and his "never" puns...

I say Dark Phoenix She is alot more powerful not to mention she fed off suns and destroyed entire solar systems and This case with superman prime isn't any different.She can probably aborb the strength right out of Superman Prime . Oh yeah can't telepaths freeze people's minds ?I saw it on the Xmen movies where professor Xavier froze there minds or even time.

yeah he did that in one of the comics i belive.
i realy don't think it's actualy stopping time but if he can do that on the world scale image phoenix pulling the same power at the cosmic scale

superman prime would win this one
he has the sword of heaven and the last GL ring

dark phoenix

Superman Prime would win the phoenix is a primal force but in the end superman prime became one too he broke into heaven people give me a break pheonix cant do that superman prime would distroy her.

I say dark phoenix cause she seems a lot more powerful

Mider, that's a rumor spread around, probably by Superman fans. He never did such a thing. Michael or Spectre would wreck him if he ever tried something like that. How Prime would even arrive at Heaven is a mystery?

He never did that. If he did, please provide issues or scans of Prime breaking down the gates of Heaven.

Again, Dark Phoenix wins.

"he broke into heaven" i heard this so many times , is this true or bullshit , people are saying anything they hear, get your own facts and don't post bullshit made up stories.

Don't Trust anybody except kgkg.

Superman Prime! The Living Sun! Whoops, Dark Phoenix eats suns...

Superman Prime, no contest! bwahahahahahahahah

Prime, again, no contest.

Such foolishness.

Phoenix moves at lightspeed, so don't do the speed arguement..
Phoenix can manipulate matter. Phoenix can manipulate and absorb energy. Phoenix ABSORBS SUNS. Superman Prime is basically a super-charged solar battery. Take all of his solar energy, Superman Prime dies, Dark Phoenix wins.

no contest!!!
phoenix!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prime has lived in a sun for 800+ years. Dark Phoenix eats suns. DP could telekinetically pull his molecules apart and eat them one by one. Telekinesis on that level is the only weapon she would need. It's micrscopic and macroscopic in scale. At full power she could pull his internal organs out through his nose or crush him with a whole solar system's worth of planets.

/\ It was for 15000 years.
Even the superman dynasty and other heros of the 835th century could have a good chance of beating phoenix. And prime was the one who gave the superman dynasty their powers.
About him being a living sun. That is just ONE of his powers. It is by NO means the limitations of his power or ability

ya but without solar energy his toast or will be so weak that someone like phoenix will take him down.

Without Aborsorbing Primes takes this , but this is a fight so anything is allowed

i gives to phoenix

Yes, he did it. If I am not mistaken, you and I discussed this previously and I provided you with the issues.

Superman Prime is like a Super Superman right....Superman powers boosted to insane levels.

...and I am not mistaken. Here was my response.

"Apologies on the Thanos w/THOTU response - I thought you were addressing me.

I will certainly try to dig up the Superman Prime issue numbers.

Hmm, here is a synopsis (still digging for issue numbers though...and whoa now. Found them. muahahaha):

"The fear lasted until one day at the turn of the 700th century AD when a haggard and haunted figure descended out of the skies above the planet Earth. Superman Prime, Kal-El of Krypton, the original Superman had returned to his adopted home. He had been places and dimensions that few had even knew of and even fewer understood. >>>>>He had wrestled with gods and demons. He had overturned hell and fought his way past the gates of Heaven looking for the soul of beloved Lois who due to his immortality he could never join in the afterlife.<<<< A haunted figure as removed from humanity as he had ever been his presence still caused a revolution in human society. To many it was the second coming of a legend from the past creating a spiritual revival and even worship of him from some, but he was beyond such social convention at that time."

Issues?

DC ONE MILLION #1-4, DC ONE MILLION 80-PAGE GIANT & DC1M crossovers.

FIRST APPEARANCE: SUPERMAN PRIME: HISTORICAL: ACTION COMICS #1 (June, 1938); CURRENT: background) SUPERMAN THE MAN OF TOMORROW #1,000,000 (November 1998); (Golden Form) DC ONE MILLION #1 (November 1998)

SUPERMAN SECUNDUS: SUPERMAN MAN OF TOMORROW #1,000,000 (November 1997).

SUPERMAN M*: (cameo) JLA (third series) #15; (February 1998); (full) JLA (third series) #23 (October 1998)"

DC Heaven has bad security. Brinks should issue a refund.

so did it realy happen or can you just speculate it did?
whether or not phoenix still wins just because superman might break into heaven but phoenix woud consume it with fire

How is Superman breaking into heaven at all relevant to him beating Phoenix?

No Solar Energy = No Superman Prime. Buhbye.

You've got me yet again Never. But then I went back to that thread we argued and dug this up:

I admittedly am wrong. But so what do we have?

Prime breaking into Heaven's gate. But what does that prove. How a physical being can even break into Heaven's gate is beyond me.

Now he broke it, so what does that mean? That he can take Phoenix? It wasn't like he fought Spectre or Michael...and won. If he arrived and broke it and someone like Michael or Spectre opposed him and he beat them up, then it would be relevant. Him breaking into Heaven looking for Lois Lane tells us nothing of his power. For all we know Heaven didn't even oppose him cause there was nothing for him to find there.

Furthermore here's the list you posted Never on DC's hierarchy. Prime ain't beating Spectre or Michael.

The list we compiled of DC's most powerful:

DC:

1. The Presence
2. The Source
3. Rama Kushna
4. H'ronmeer
5.Meshta
6.Gyges and Garamas (with God power)
7.Great Evil Beast (appeared in an issue in which the Infinity Avengers kinda ripped off if you read it carefully)
8.Spectre at his full potential (omnipotent is unbeatable rather you're omnipresent or omniscient) <============================
9. Mawu (the religious God of Africa shown in Spectre #58 )
10.The Voice (An entity part of the Presence)
11.The Word
12. Wally the God Boy
13. Lucifer Morningstar
14. Archangel Michael <===========================
15. The Aleph
16.Decreator
17. The 5th Dimensional Imps (Mr. Mxyzptlk, Bane-Mite, and Thunderbolts)
18. Ultimator, and other races and beings include 4d to 10d
19. ID (A 6th dimensional being created by the Cathexis that could fullfill one's wish. Unlimited Powers)
20. Parallax
21. Ion
22. Uni-Friend
23. Anti-Life Entity
24. Eclipso
25. Mistos
26. Satan
27. Stigmonus Monsieur
28. Sinestro after death when he faced the Spectre
29.First of the Fallen
30. Azmodus
31. DC's Archangels- Gabriel (probably most powerful archangel next to Michael), Amenadiel, Sandalphon, Ramiel, Duma, ect.
32 DC's Angel Host- Bull Host, Eagle, Lion, and Human rather Zauriel and Asmodel at angelic form
33. Anti-Monitor and Monitor
34. Hyperman
35. The Endless
36. Entropy (Krona)
37. Kismet
38.Dominus
39. Oblivion
40. Chaos and Order (2 elemental force)
41. Lord of Chaos/Lord of Order
42.Black Racer
43. The Kindly Ones
44. Voiceless Gods
45. Mahu
46.Seviram
47. That giant monster Lucifer unleashed to stop Amenadiel's army, and anything Lucifer has faced
48. A
49. King of Tears
50. Hawkgod
51. Elder Gods
52.Dark Gods
53.Shattered Gods
54. Rao, and other gods of Krypton
55. Candlemaker
56.Dorothy Spinner (IMO, imp-like level in which she can create by thinking it)
57. Telephone Avatar
58. Shadowy Mr. Evans
59. Carnivore (Almost took over heaven)
60. Anti-Matter Man
61. Glorith and the original Time Trapper
62. Promethian Giants
63. Millennium Giants
64. Extant
65. Monarch
66. The Seven Deadly Enemy of Man
67. Cosmic Gamblers
68. S'ivaa the Destroyer
69. Brimstone
70. Pantheon gods- African like Shango the Thunderer, Oloron the First Born, Norse gods like Odin and Loki, Greek gods like Zeus and Hercules, Japanese gods like Susano-o-no-makota and Izanami, Egypton gods like Osirect and Ra, ect.
71. The Unimaginables
72. Ibac/Sabbac- the 2 Capt. Marvel villain which 1 was a clone and another had power like with black magic
73. Neron, the demon that demoted Neron from hell, Abaddon the Destroyer, Adramelech, Agony & Ectacy, One in Charge of Punishment of the Damned in Effrul, Keeper of the Oracle of Styx, and since I don't feel like listing everyone from hell, I'll just estimate: 300-400 leaders/higher rank in Hell
74. The 3 Demons- Rath, Ghast, and Abnegazar
75. The race who got rid of the demons- Timeless Ones
76. Lord Satanis
77. Lord Satanus
78. Second and Third of the Fallen (Brothers of First of the Fallen)
79. Mad God of 3600
80. The First Citadelian and his clone armies and the other Citadelians
81. Oblivion II- one that faced Wonder Woman
82. Auron
83. X'Hal
84. Superman Prime <----------------------------------
85. Everyone in the 853rd Century including Manhunter from Mars
86. Wonderworld race and heroes
87. Maggedon
88. Old Gods- Wotan, Lokee, Arzaz, Nameless One
89. Guardian of the Universe
90. Controllers
91. Zamarons
92. Progenitor- This guy created his own galaxy and a whole race
93. Fernus and the Burning Martians
94. Anti-Sun
95. Imperiex Prime and Imperiex probes
96. Yuga Khan
97. Nebula Man
98. Orion at his true form (the one that Astro once posted in Alvaro's)
99. Orion with the ALE
100. Darkseid one with the Source from NG v4
101. Izaya one with the Source in a New Gods v4 issue
102. Euricros
103. Clocxwerk
104. Hourman 3/Warlogog

that's some impresive detail

what's the info on The Presence?

Presence = TOAA = GOD

so his like TOAA of marvel??

and do you have a list of marvel ranking that whould be kool to see

Did anyone...****ever***** say...that Prime beat Michael?

Ever? No.

Micheal let him pass, IIRC.

Sheesh.

Here's my list.

1. TOAA
2. The Heart Of The Universe/Pre-Reconned Beyonder
3. Living Tribunal
4. The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death/Eternity/Infinity/Full Potential Galactus (as Third Essential Of Universe)
6. Oblivion
7. Celestials/Franklin Richards (full potential)
8. Master Order/Lord Chaos
9. Chronos
10. Love/Hate
11. Galactus (normal)/Stranger/Eon/Hoggoth/Oshtur/Agamotto/In-Betweener
12. Molecule Man
13. Shaper of Worlds/Beyonder/Kubik
14. Phoenix Force
15. Shuma Gorath/Dormammu
16. Demogorge The God Eater (Atum the Sun after consuming elder god)
17. Chthon/Set/Atum (the Sun God)/Demiurge/Gaea
18. Tyrant
19. Cyttarok/Surtur/Ymir/Odin/Zeus/Zuras/All Skyfathers/Destroyer Armor/Shaman X-Man
20. Mephisto
21. King Thor/Thanos
22. Captain Universe/Mangog/Kurse
23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Genis-Vell/Loki/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart/Ronan The Executioner
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Fire Lord/Enchantress
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod/Mandarin
26. Juggernaut/Hulk
27. Dr.Doom/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Namor/Thing

Here's an entire thread on people's opinion about how Marvel's hierarchy should be listed:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=301985&perpage=20&highlight=Marvel+Hierarchy&pagenumber=1

Michael let him past? 'Kay. But could you provide me with the exact issue of Prime breaking into Heaven & Michael letting him past. I ain't got enough money to buy all those issues you listed. Just give me the exact issue that happened in.

Or better yet, just scan it.

Let's put that aside for a moment. How does Prime breaking into Heaven's gate a feat to list since nobody opposed him? It's like Mr. Smith goes to Washington. He went alright, but that doesn't make him the President of the U.S. or qualifies to be Secretary of Defense.

Do you know anything about DCU?

Are you familiar with the suffix "-el?"

You know it generally references an angEL, correct?

Kal-EL. GabriEL. MichaEL. In DC? Asmod-EL.

The JLA (specifically Zauri-EL) defeated AsmodEL, Bull Host of...some high ranking order of angELS. Do you think that MichaEL sits at the GATES?

No, he does not. Other angELS do, and Prime made his WAY to MichaEL.

I obviously cannot provide you with the exact issue because I cannot RECALL what the exact issue (hence my providing you with that LIST). I will see if one of my cohorts CAN, and after that, I will provide you with the issue.

It happened. You are wrong. Sorry.

Wow, I didn't know that. So according to DC, Superman and the entire house of EL is actually descended from a line of angels?

I guess so. Mon-El is also an angel then I guess, while Lucifer Morningstar is not an angel or fallen angel.

Like some more names of angELs to further illustrate my point?

ZadkiEL, MuriEL, ZacharaEL, AmbriEL, AftiEL, AbEL, AbdiEL, AnixiEL, ModiniEL, NariEL, NoaphiEL, OmaEL, OumriEL.

As far as Kal-EL, okay, I will not assume that all are aware of the comparisons that the Superman figure has drawn to Jesus.

Superman, Son of Jor-EL? Jesus, Son of God? Spaceship landing in a field after having to escape Krypton? Kal-El, Clark; EmmanuEL (Jesus' name according to the AngEL of the Lord), Jesus.

*shrug*

So Superman is DC's Jesus?

No.

Was the character BASED on the Jesus figure?

Allegedly.

This is some DaVinci Code s#!t right here!

Superman = Son of Jesus & Mary Magdalen

superman prime has the sword of heaven= can bend reality
he could turn dark pheonix into a turkey sandwich

??? Reality warping? So can Proteus and Dark Phoenix would kill him.

Furthermore, I've heard of this Sword of Heaven. Well, has he used this Sword to beat anybody worth mention? He used the GL ring to beat Solaris, not the Sword.

Have yet to see why the Sword would beat Phoenix.

Lucifer IS a fallen angel. He is always shown as more of a fallen angel than as a demon

DC lucifer is NOT DC satan

Why would Supermasn be able to use any of is powers before he was completely striooed if his solar energy. Phoenix absorbs a huge star in seconds, why would she have any problem with Superman Prime? The sword of heaven won't help, Phoenix can manipulate matter as well.
Making way too many loopholes. There's no reason Superman Prime shoud win.

i agree phoenix takes this.

Yeah well, this says otherwise:



Kal-El and Mon-El are angels; Lucifer is not. Neither his first or last name ends in El.

Based on the description of Superman Prime, I still think Dark Phoenix should handle him.



I don't know much about the DC character, but Lucifer in Hebrew is referred as Helel, or ben-shachar meaning "son of the morning."

if you read the DC/vertigo 'Lucifer' title, you would see what I mean. DC Lucifer has NEVER been shown to be demonic at all. He was the first creation of god. He was always shown as a fallen angel, with style and charm and wisdom, but still an evil baastard.
By the way, his original (angelic) name was SamaEL. He renounced it when he rebelled against yahweh, and then adopted the name Lucifer as his own.

me...know...who...Lucifer...is...but thanks for trying to inform me.

Dark Phoenix can't mainpulate the Sword of Truth because it is a heavenly sword made by the Presence given to Supe Primeand can't be manipulated. Besides if Phoenix does eat Supe's sun or take his powers he can always undo that with the sword.

How? What are the Sword's powers? Has this Sword actually done anything worth wild aside from being given from the Presence?

Please tell me what the Sword can do instead just saying his Sword can reverse Phoenix attack.

That sounds pretty impressive to me.

If Phoenix absorbs all of Superman's solar energy, he's dead. No using any swords, he's dead.

Didnt you read the previous post?

Yes... What's your point?

Ok first of all Phoenix is powerful yes... but there is no way thats she could beat Superman Prime. Regular Superman fought Phoenix for a few minutes in the Access Series (Marvel / DC team up). When the JLA fought the X-Men. She tried to escape him to help her pu**y of a husband Cyclops but couldn't. So there is no way that she could take Superman Prime out. Ok so she can drain Suns... or destroy a solar system. Superman Prime took the Red Star in the One million Series and took it apart and absorbed all of the red energy in its core. For those of you who know... red light is supposed to make him normal and lose his powers. Not only that but after he did that, he created a new yellow Sun. Anyone can destory a Sun... but can Phoenix create one? I haven't even talked about Superman's Green Lantern Ring or the Sword of Heaven. His Green Lantern ring is the last one in existance, has all the GL Corp power stored in it. So thats is pretty much the same as when Parallax drained the GL before, and he was able to recreate the Universe. And even though it never really describes his sword, have you noticed the name? Sword of HEAVEN... come on now, you think God is going to make him a pocket knife? I bet even Superman Dynesty could beat Dark Phoenix. He actually got his powers from a Yellow Sun but even when he fought the Anti Sun in the DC One million series with a Red Star going... he still beat the Anti Sun. Also if the two ever did fight, who would Phoenix call? Wolverine? Cyclops? Jubilee? Ice Man? Seriously... Marvel characters are all weak... Batman almost took out the entire X-Men before the JLA showed up. A lot fo you need to get off Marvel's balls.

Prime killed solaris SO easily, and solaris is far more than a match for dark phoenix.

These stats are of Rachel Summers, imagine these powers in a ruthless and uncaring person. Rachel doesn't even use the full power of the Phoenix for fear of losing control of it as her mother did when she became the Dark Phoenix. Rachel does have more control over the Phoenix than her mother did though.

Strength: Athlete

Speed: Athlete

Known superhuman powers: Phoenix II has the ability to exist in any environment without harm, project force bolts of incalculable power and create force fields. She also possesses the power of telepathy, illusion-casting; her link with the Phoenix force gives her vast psionic ability to manipulate time, space, matter, and energy for virtually any purpose.

Source of superhuman powers: (innate telepathic abilities) genetic mutation, (other psionic powers). Rachel Summers is a host for the Phoenix Force, a manifestation of a primal force of the universe which embodies the concepts of life and passion, especially the passion to create and destroy, and derives its power from the psyches of all living beings in the universe.

Dark Phoenix takes Prime and ends his legacy. Now if Prime had a few allies, then maybe, but by himself, no chance.

Yes the Phoenix Force can and has produced suns, therefore, Dark Phoenix can certainly do so. Mind you, she didn't destroy the sun, she absorbed it. Anything Superman Prime can do, Phoenix Force can do, and more (this includes altering reality.) The GL ring won't help Superman Prime either, Phoenix could easily absorb it's power as well.

Who the hell does Phoenix need to call? I could name a hundred Marvel characters that could kick Superman Prime's ass, but there's no outside help, (try reading the forum rules.) You're going pretty far saying that all of Marvel's characters are weak, soley by judging the X-Men (who aren't weak at all,) and it doesn't help your argument at all.

This thread is pretty much over. It is only being kept alive by Superman fanboys who aren't giving any valid reasons why Superman would win, they're just droning, "Superman wins becase he broke into heaven, he fought so-and-so, he has the sword of heaven, blah, blah, blah." I have given you one valid reason Dark Phoenix wins; No solar power = No Superman Prime, and I could give you ten more. How about you get off of Superman's balls.

That was good Cosmic Cube.

Do you even know what you are talking about? So you think that just because it gets dark that Superman loses his powers? If you read the One Million Series... There was a Red Star and he still kept his powers. So at night time does Superman lose his powers? Nowhere in that incoherent rambling did you make any valid points what so ever. In fact I believe that it has made anyone that has read that or will read that dumber. In one of the DC / Marvel Crossovers... Darkseid contolled Dark Phoenix... and lost to the X-Men and Teen Titans. I never said that Dark Phoenix was not powerful... because she is but there is no way she could beat Superman Prime. You are retarded to think that once the lights go out that 800 centuries of stored Solar Energy is going to go away. Do us all a favor and do what Phoenix did... commit suicide.

Read again.

I said that names that end in -el USUALLY reference an angel; I did not say that ALL angels have names that end in -el.

*sigh*

No need for personal attacks, good sir.

Apparently, you are the retard. Did I say "when it gets dark, Superman loses his power," or anything remotely close? No, I said "Superman Prime is basically a super-charged solar battery. Take all of his solar energy, Superman Prime dies..." When Superman Prime is devoid of solar energy, he will lose. The Phoenix can *absorb* (pay attention, now,) *ABSORB* all of Superman Prime's solar energy. All of it. That is merely one of the tactics Dark Phoenix could use. Did you forget about her telepathy? Her psionic force attacks? Her matter/energy manipulation? As I said, you have yet to give a valid reason why Superman Prime would win, and there are many many ways Dark Phoenix could defeat Superman Prime. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge them is solely at your discretion.

I know you didn't. But when you brought up DC suffix or whatever and Kal-El - hinting that he might be an angel - I just countered with anyone with their name ending in El. Also, just cause Superman's name ends in El, it too doesn't mean he's an angel.

We're talking about Dark Phoenix here, not one that holds back.



So he's immune to red suns, that's still not absorption. Created a sun? Phoenix is the embodiment of life/rebirth. The Phoenix Force can tap into energies of life unborn (a.k.a. yet to be borned) - the universe's stars faded when she did that. Phoenix also dealt with the M'Krann Crystal, so how does taking apart and absorbing a red star/sun compare.



Yet to be proven. Parallax absorbed the entire GL Battery. Having the last ring doesn't mean you have Parallax level powers. Think about it, if all 3599 GL's stopped using their rings for an entire week, does that mean Kyle would have Parallax level powers? No. There rings have limits; otherwise, why do they have to recharge every so often? If Prime had Parallax powers, they would've stated that since it's such an immense level to have.

Additionally, Parallax still needed to absorb the energies left over from Crisis (Pre-Crisis) to recreate the universe. He couldn't just do it on his own.



Yeah. Wow. Sword of Heaven. Nice ring to it but how can it reverse Phoenix's attack? What are its powers? So it was given by the Presence from Heaven. It's still just a sword, nothing more. If it can do something worth wild, what?

As for the Superman Dynasty, Solaris was killing them off with dangerous levels of radiation. :rollseye: Yup, Phoenix ain't going to pull that one off. I'm not saying the Dynasty can't do it, but it ain't easy. Furthermore, they can beat Prime as well. 1 Million can move a galaxy with his mind, that backed up with an entire Dystany? Prime might be their ancestor and give them their solar energy, but some of them also have Imp blood in them. Prime does have that. Plus the numbers of them as well.



Yup. Marvel is full of weaklings.

That was Pre-Crisis Darkseid, there's a difference. Pre-Crisis Superman easily moved planets. PC Darkseid controlled BILLIONS of Daxamites using his mind, while fighting two Pre-Crisis Kryptonians, who was POWERED BY HIGHFATHER. PC Superman was afraid of PC Darkseid. Prime's mind ain't more powerful than PC Darkseid. Does he even have telepathy? Also, when Dark Phoenix was free from PC Darkseid's mind control - SHE THREW HIS ASS into the Source Wall.



She's not going to turn out DC's light, only Prime's.

phoenix will defeat supes

This isn't even a fight. DP would reaarange his molecules, dissipitate him, arrange his molecules, and rearrange them again just for fun. As Jean Grey, she is second only to professor xavier in terms of psionic power. Hell, she even held off multiple mind probes when she was bruised, beaten, and inhibited by a power disrupter (age of apocalypse). Now infused with the Phoenix entity, she becomes a god in terms of raw power. Her telepathy and telekinesis are augumented to the max and 'member as Jean Grey she's already powerful so imagine if u take an already powerful omega level telepath, multiply her abilities by a thousand folds at least with infinite cosmic force at her disposal, u get a force to reckon with. Don't even start with well Superman Primeis the sun itself so in essence he's part of the universe because the phoenix force is part of the universe and sentience. DP eats suns and stars for fun and destroyed a solar system. She has delivered the M'Kraan crystal into the heart of the sun. She form a stargate. Rachel Summers fought GALACTUS to a standstill and she was the weaker host. I don't think SupermanPrime is at her level nor close to it. Even given with a couple of free shots, DP would go in his head, make him think he's crypto, and make him shit and piss on momma kent's carpet and Jonathan wouldn't take it kindly and give him (as krypto)the people's elbow.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
No need for personal attacks, good sir.

Apparently, you are the retard. Did I say "when it gets dark, Superman loses his power," or anything remotely close? No, I said "Superman Prime is basically a super-charged solar battery. Take all of his solar energy, Superman Prime dies..." When Superman Prime is devoid of solar energy, he will lose. The Phoenix can *absorb* (pay attention, now,) *ABSORB* all of Superman Prime's solar energy. All of it. That is merely one of the tactics Dark Phoenix could use. Did you forget about her telepathy? Her psionic force attacks? Her matter/energy manipulation? As I said, you have yet to give a valid reason why Superman Prime would win, and there are many many ways Dark Phoenix could defeat Superman Prime. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge them is solely at your discretion.


just for the record superman doesnt need yellow light to live.

I don't know why people use Superman Prime in this forum. He only appeared briefly. We have little to no idea of what his powers are nor of his capabilities. We're just playing a guessing game.

Prime takes DP

Originally posted by Draco69
I don't know why people use Superman Prime in this forum. He only appeared briefly. We have little to no idea of what his powers are nor of his capabilities. We're just playing a guessing game.

Yea. Honestly last time I heard about crossovers that actual fans that know about both people they usually involve canon evidence of junk that has happened, and/or had the persons strength, and junked named. Prime appears once, and Phoenix is more in-depth of a character, and everybody knows what she can do. From all I know of Prime that I seen she could beat him but who knows all his power, and how fast he can go, and what he can do with a green lantern ring. There is no real proof of all his abilities.

All I remember is sayin is after Lois died he traveled the universe for a while before going into the sun for 15,000 years, and then MM tricks Vandel Savage into launching the last remaining Green Lantern ring to him. I don't even remember Prime coming out of the sun until after Solaris had been blown up...maybe I just don't remember or something but I could have swore that Solaris blew up, and Kyle held it in a safe as it went nova (though not without a lot of convincing from Batman, and help from Superman 1 Mil.)

If you don't know anything about Superman Prime, why say he will beat Dark Phoenix? Why even bring him up in a thread?

I never said he would...I'm wondering why people always put him in fights..Its just not right.

Wasn't talking about you, referring to 11".

Sorry.

Originally posted by Draco69
I don't know why people use Superman Prime in this forum. He only appeared briefly. We have little to no idea of what his powers are nor of his capabilities. We're just playing a guessing game.
Because he is the same person as regular post crisis superman (just taken to the extreme, set in the future).
The most powerful member of the House of 'El is the son of WW and superman from the KC timeline, but he is not mentionned as much as prime because:
a)He comes from an elseworlds alternate timeline (although he eventually gets control over all timelines).
b)He is NOT superman. Prime IS superman in the mainstream DC timeline.

Originally posted by eleveninches
Prime takes DP
Sorry if that sounded rather rude

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
This thread is pretty much over. It is only being kept alive by Superman fanboys who aren't giving any valid reasons why Superman would win, they're just droning, "Superman wins becase he broke into heaven, he fought so-and-so, he has the sword of heaven, blah, blah, blah." I have given you one valid reason Dark Phoenix wins; No solar power = No Superman Prime, and I could give you ten more. How about you get off of Superman's balls.



Agreed.

Reading the various threads and posted in this Forum has
reminded me why I can't stand DC comics.

They take an already super-strong figure, Superman, and
make him even stronger. Superman one-million, Superman
Prime, Superman Dynasty, what the hell? Why?

Granted, I respect normal Superman as a great and
legendary hero. I am even one of those who, despite being
a Marvel fan, believes that Superman is notable stonger than
even the Hulk.

But this Prime bs is way too much.

Yes, Marvel has done the same, expecially in recent years,
with War Hulk and King thor and all that nonesense, but
atleast all they did was take a strong character, and make
him stonger still, unlike DC which took a very very strong
characetr, and made him hundred of times stronger.


Still, the Phoenix kills him, with all the cheers and applause
from me.

They take an already super-strong figure, Superman, and
make him even stronger

War Hulk and King thor and all that nonesense, but
atleast all they did was take a strong character, and make
him stonger still, unlike DC which took a very very strong
characetr, and made him hundred of times stronger.

Contradiction Much?
King Thor And War Hulk? Not 100 Times Stronger That Their Originals? OK...
Prime And War Hulk And King Thor Are All The Same Thing As Far As Im Concerned...
Evolutions Of A Character...

"Prime takes DP"

Originally posted by BootlegBoys420
Contradiction Much?
King Thor And War Hulk? Not 100 Times Stronger That Their Originals? OK...
Prime And War Hulk And King Thor Are All The Same Thing As Far As Im Concerned...
Evolutions Of A Character...


How is it a contradiction? I wasn't making two opposing
statements.

The original Superman was a very strong character, stronger
in my opinion than the Hulk or Thor. Superman Prime is
hundreds of times stronger still. Almost on a cosmic level.

The Hulk and Thor were rarely shown as strong as Superman.
And while I don't know much about War hulk or King Thor, I
don't think they were made strong enough to destroy planets
or stars like Superman Prime (from what I've read here by
his fans).


"Evolution Of A Character"? I doubt it. This isn't evolution,
it is completely changing the character into someone new.


In my opinion, all this is probably due to the growing
infulence of japanese animation, with all their super-powerful
characters, especially DragonBall Z.

Comic book publishers probably decided to try to appeal to
such fans by making characters also unrealistically strong
as well.

Not all animes are about super strong guys like DBZ is. Some don't even have any kind of powers..and I don't mean like Batman I mean have no powers, and don't face villains or try to save teh world.

Originally posted by Kento
Not all animes are about super strong guys like DBZ is. Some don't even have any kind of powers..and I don't mean like Batman I mean have no powers, and don't face villains or try to save teh world.


Fair enough.

But the DBZ influence cannot be discounted, especially when
the powering up of figures like Thor and Hulk took place at
precisely the same time that DragonBall Z was catching on
across America.

I may be wrong, but it is a suspicion that I have (I too was a
fan of DragonBall and DragonBall Z, though not of the GT
series).

Actually if u think about it Gokou has alot of Supes origins in the Z saga.

Characters always come around briefly... Dark Phoenix is not a regular comic character... But besides that... Ok You take the sun out of the picture... Supermans Powers dont go away right away. Especially Prime... he has stored over 800 centuries of sun light in his body. He made the Super Sun in the 1 Million series. Even though we dont know the full extent of his powers because they were not seen much, this is what is known: he has the last GL ring... anyone who knows anythign about GL is that the power of the ring depends on how much will the wearer has... I dont think very many people have more will than Superman. Ok This post is stupid because noone knows the extent to either Dark Phoenix or Superman Primes powers. So until DC and Marvel do a crossover there is no point in continuing this post.

Superman Prime is powerful because of the 15,000 years (?)
he spent inside the earth Sun.

The Phoenix is a Cosmic Being, a force of nature that has
been around probably since the begining of time itself.

Superman Prime has zero chance of winning this.

Phoenix is not the same as Galactus, Entropy, or Entity. It does not say anywhere that Phoenix has been around since time began. If you could show me any evidence that she is as powerful as you say then Ill give DP some credit. Until I see her accomplishing the same thing as Superman has there is no way that she could beat him. He went to Heaven and Hell... has the Sword of Heaven... last GL ring... centuries of stored sunlight... immunity to magic due to a marriage with the 5th dimensional imps... So yea I just got off the phone with Stan Lee and he said you should cover yourself up with all of your comic books and light yourself on fire.

Actually, Phoenix is more powerful than Galactus.

Just for clarification, Prime isn't immune to magic, his descendents that have 5th dimension Imp genes are after the marriage. Prime (Kal El) is still 100% pure Kryptonian and vulnerable to powerful magics, but he is resistant to low level magic attacks. A character like Qwsp or Fate would more than likely still spank him if he didn't have the reality altering 'Sword of Heaven' (does he ever use or has he ever been displayed using this sword, by the way?).

And I can't logically see how 15,000 years of stored sunlight is comparable to an actual sun which Dark Phoenix absorbed in moments. Stars have millions upon millions of years of solar energy stored in them, and she ate one like a hungry fat kid eating a Snickers bar. Under his own power or with just the GL Ring Dark Phoenix would easily take him. I don't know what effects the Sword would have on her. Phoenix mended the M'Krann Crystal with is a nexus of universes and battled D'Ken after he'd merged with it and had control over reality, and that was in her better adjusted form. Dark Phoenix has no redeeming moral value and would do anything she deems necessary to kill Prime.

Depends on what the Sword can really do, not just speculation.

When Phoenix and Galactus fought he was hungry and not at full power. Galactus is the only entity to be around since before the current MU Big Bang... he survived the end of the first Universe. Death and Eternity were both born at that time but Galactus was already there.

Ok how easy is it to go around and destroy a Sun? That is not any real proof. Superman took the red Anti-Sun which anyone who knows anything about red light makes Superman a normal human regularly. But he peeled apart the red sun with his bare hands and then recreated the Super Sun.

Ok well like I was saying earlier... not that much is known of either character but Phoenix does have links to the power cosmicwhich is what powers the GL rings. (GL power comes from the source... therefore infinite) Superman has the last GL ring... therefore their two cosmic powers cancel each other out. The rings powers is as strong as the wearers will is... therefore if she tried to get into Prime's mind with the will powering the GL ring he could force her out. She can destroy life and stars but Prime created the Super Sun. Alot of characters have the power to destroy stars but how many of them can create them? So strength wise she is ranked level 100 which was also what Post Crisis Superman is ranked. So Superman Prime has 1000x the strength. Both have about the same speed... speed of light or around it. Then you bring in the Sword of Heaven which its powers are only speculated but it was given to him by the Source... I am pretty sure its alot better than a Swiss Army knife. Supposedly the sword has the power to go through space and time... so if he needed to he could just go back in time and chop Jeans head off before Phoenix could get to her.

If you read the comics from when Dark Phoenix killed herself... she used the Shi'ar weapons to do so. The alien weapons were strong enough to kill her. Phoenix was one of Marvels greatest mistakes and did not involve anyone else in the MU other than the XMen so if she was that unstoppable and hard I am pretty sure others would have stood up against her also. But apparently the XMen had it under controll.

Dark Phoenix does not destroy suns. She consumes them. There is a difference

She made the sun go supernova and consumed the energy then. Thats why it destroyed all of the planets in that solar system. When a sun supernovas it is destroyed. Then she absorbed the energy from it. Good try though.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Actually, Phoenix is more powerful than Galactus.

Just for clarification, Prime isn't immune to magic, his descendents that have 5th dimension Imp genes are after the marriage.

Where did you get this?

superman prime wins

Originally posted by Jason8200
When Phoenix and Galactus fought he was hungry and not at full power. Galactus is the only entity to be around since before the current MU Big Bang... he survived the end of the first Universe. Death and Eternity were both born at that time but Galactus was already there.

That wasn't Dark Phoenix. Dark Phoenix is more powerful than Rachael with Phoenix power. Galactus can potentially be more powerful, so can Phoenix. At their average level of power, both are about equal.



So? Phoenix can tap into the universe's stars to power herself.



One GL ring is not a match for Phoenix. Having the last ring doesn't mean you have access to Ion or Parallax level powers. Furthermore, GL rings run out of power and need to recharge. And the ring's power comes from the Oa battery, not the Source. And according to what I've read, the Sword of Heaven is from the Presence. The Source isn't in heaven. So far, all I've heard is it can control time and space but to what extent it's unknown. And please don't say it's all power and can beat Phoenix because it was from the Presence. For all we know that Sword could've had limited control over time and space.



So she wanted to be killed. Your point is what? If she's not fighting it, I don't see why she can't kill herself with Shi'Ar tech if she wanted. Also Jean killed herself, not the Phoenix Entity.

Phoenix wins

If what others say on this board, that the Phoenix draws its powers
from life yet-unborn, then I'd figure it must have been around since
the beginning to time.

But if not, the Phoenix is still probably millions of years old, around
much longer than Superman.

And even if it isn't as strong as Galactus, then that still doesn't
mean it isn't stronger than Superman Prime.

Galactus can destroy a whole solar system, even more. Even if the
Phoenix is slightly weaker than Galactus, that's still much stronger
than some guy who's been sun-tanning for 15,000 years.

And who cares about the GL ring? What can it do that Phoneix
cannot do?



What an a** you are.

Your telling me that prime who is basically pre supes X 10000 with the last Gl ring and the sword of heaven will be beat by Dp PLEASE. And by the way about the sword it was given to him by the presence= GOD dont you think it has Ungodly FORCe no pun intended case closed.

The same DC God that got killed by his own stupidity? That Sword better come with a warranty. It's craftsman isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer himself.

Yahweh died. NOT the prescence

Dark Phoenix and the GL ring both draw their power from cosmic energies. GL power is drawn from the Presence itself. Where DP draws it from the M'krann Crystal. All I know is that the X-Men were able to handle her a few times... I am pretty sure Prime could hold his own. None of you who are arguing for DP are providing any evidence at all for why. "She made a sun supernova." WOW. Great evidence everyone. Dark Phoenix died when she turned the Shi'ar weapons on herself. Alot of people say it was to save the universe incase she goes crazy again.... I think it was cause she used her mind reading powers and read that there might be a crossover of her against Prime so she commited suicide. She did the right thing.

Originally posted by Jason8200
Dark Phoenix and the GL ring both draw their power from cosmic energies. GL power is drawn from the Presence itself. Where DP draws it from the M'krann Crystal. All I know is that the X-Men were able to handle her a few times... I am pretty sure Prime could hold his own. None of you who are arguing for DP are providing any evidence at all for why. "She made a sun supernova." WOW. Great evidence everyone. Dark Phoenix died when she turned the Shi'ar weapons on herself. Alot of people say it was to save the universe incase she goes crazy again.... I think it was cause she used her mind reading powers and read that there might be a crossover of her against Prime so she commited suicide. She did the right thing.

Find me evidence where the ring's power comes from the Presence. First you said the Source, now the Presence? The Source and Presence are two different things. Truth is, the ring's power comes from the Oa battery.

And where does it say Phoenix's power comes from the M'Khrann Crystal?

How would she beat him, by consuming him.

Did you even read my post before babbling what you just did?

LOL damn there are some supe haters all over this place

Originally posted by chris_63256
Your telling me that prime who is basically pre supes X 10000 with the last Gl ring and the sword of heaven will be beat by Dp PLEASE. And by the way about the sword it was given to him by the presence= GOD dont you think it has Ungodly FORCe no pun intended case closed.

Where are you getting this from that he's Pre Crisis Supes X 10,000? Pre-Crisis Supes juggles planets and can recreate a solar system.

As for the last GL ring, so what? I don't know where your getting this, but that GL ring is like every other. Unless something was specified, he doesn't have Parallax or Ion level power. Heck his ring is like every other, after using a lot of it he might have to recharge the thing. It wasn't like Prime absorbed the Oa battery or anything; he just had the last ring.

As for the Sword, what has it done? What's the extent of its power over time and space?

The phoneix force cant die, only the body or vessel it occupies. The force itself rises from the ashes itself. it would kill prime

everyone has a opinon, But I just want to say this I DO NOT want to hear anymore bulls%*t about DC characters being ridiculously over powerful I will just give three of my examples why Thanos,Sentry,Dark phoenix from what you people say all three are Dc's Presence level all three are immortal and can not be beat by anyone in DC its crazy.

Originally posted by chris_63256
everyone has a opinon, But I just want to say this I DO NOT want to hear anymore bulls%*t about DC characters being ridiculously over powerful I will just give three of my examples why Thanos,Sentry,Dark phoenix from what you people say all three are Dc's Presence level all three are immortal and can not be beat by anyone in DC its crazy.

they are imortal that doesn't mean they can't be knocked out.


and non of them are close to presence level his DC God how can they be at his level?


no one in Marvel is at his level (except TAOO) not even LT.

Lt would cream prime

it was a joke kgkg about presence get it

ya sorry didn't read the whole think.

Any way i go with Dark Phoenix.

no prob

When did the topic go from Prime fighting Dark Phoenix to the Phoenix Force? Dark Phoenix was Jean Greys inner most hate and fear put out there... thats what created her. There would be no "Dark Phoenix" without Jean Grey. "Dark Phoenix is immortal" blah blah blah. You think if Prime is still alive after 830 centuries that doesnt mean anything? SO I asked for evidence on what she has done. Besides making a star go supernova? If she was such an important character why would it only include the X Men? Why didnt you have Spidey or Hulk or the Avengers or Captain America running to try to stop her? Apparently she was not that big of a deal. Anytime anything was big with SUperman in the DC universe you would have almost all of the heroes and alot of the times the villains teaming up to help. If you cant provide any evidence then thats fine. I have all of the Phoenix comics and have looked for evidence and have not found anything. So show me the evidence other than saying well Dark Phoenix was immortal and umm had red hair...?

That's not a fair argument, since you can't expect every great
challenge faced by a Marvel hero or team to end up including
the other heroes and teams as well. Otherwise you would end
up with annoyingly frequent title cross-overs. Would you really
tolerate it if ever few weeks or months your favorite hero title
(say, Spider-Man) had its storyline suddenly interrupted so
that Spider-Man could go fight some super-dangerous Fantastic
Four villian? Not to mention the fact that you would then have
to spend huge amounts of money buying all the various titles
in order to follow the story (remember Secret Wars II?).


Also, having just the very strongest heroes of Marvel constantly
gathering together to face major threats would be boring. So
in Secret Wars I, one could ask why someone like Nightcrawler
is there? And why is Galactus there but not the Celestials?

Originally posted by Jason8200
When did the topic go from Prime fighting Dark Phoenix to the Phoenix Force? Dark Phoenix was Jean Greys inner most hate and fear put out there... thats what created her. There would be no "Dark Phoenix" without Jean Grey. "Dark Phoenix is immortal" blah blah blah. You think if Prime is still alive after 830 centuries that doesnt mean anything? SO I asked for evidence on what she has done. Besides making a star go supernova? If she was such an important character why would it only include the X Men? Why didnt you have Spidey or Hulk or the Avengers or Captain America running to try to stop her? Apparently she was not that big of a deal. Anytime anything was big with SUperman in the DC universe you would have almost all of the heroes and alot of the times the villains teaming up to help. If you cant provide any evidence then thats fine. I have all of the Phoenix comics and have looked for evidence and have not found anything. So show me the evidence other than saying well Dark Phoenix was immortal and umm had red hair...?

Everyone gathers because Superman is DC's flagship hero. Everybody kisses Superman's a$$. It doesn't make him more powerful since everybody showed up. And no, not the entire DC universe showed up.

During the Phoenix Saga, empires like the Shi'Ar, Kree, and Skrull were concerned. Empires, not just a collection of heroes.

And where was the Avengers, Defender, Infinity Watch, etc. when Tyrant showed up? Dormammu taking over Strange's body and who but Strange and Gaea's servant stopped Dormammu. Where were the hero's then? And what about Aron the rogue Watcher, besides the FF, where were other teams? This Watcher was planning to make the entire galaxy his own domain.

Jason800, I give u props for siding with Superman Prime but we're talking about a cosmic diety here. As I have said so many times, Jean Grey is an omega level telepath and telekines, now augumented with the phoenix force, her TP and TK become infinte. For crying out loud, che becomes white crown phoenix!!! She became the matriarch of the phoenix force! Not only she destroyed a freaking solar system but she also held the whole galaxy in the palm of her hands and healed it!!! I don't think prime is at that level yet. Fine, u say he's the sun itself and that he absorbed a red sun without getting weak but she's part of CREATION and UNIVERSE and she has stitched the fabric of space and reality! He's an insect compared to her. She consumes suns for fun. She'll absorb Prime in a heartbeat. Don't even get me started on her TP and TK powers. Her TP alone can take him out. Even galactus fears her. Death has no pwoer over her. Sorry kid but Jeanie wins.

This is what happens when u piss off a cosmic diety...

This is such a bad ass picture of Jean Grey......thought I'd share it with you all.

Originally posted by Jason8200
When did the topic go from Prime fighting Dark Phoenix to the Phoenix Force? Dark Phoenix was Jean Greys inner most hate and fear put out there... thats what created her. There would be no "Dark Phoenix" without Jean Grey. "Dark Phoenix is immortal" blah blah blah. You think if Prime is still alive after 830 centuries that doesnt mean anything? SO I asked for evidence on what she has done. Besides making a star go supernova? If she was such an important character why would it only include the X Men? Why didnt you have Spidey or Hulk or the Avengers or Captain America running to try to stop her? Apparently she was not that big of a deal. Anytime anything was big with SUperman in the DC universe you would have almost all of the heroes and alot of the times the villains teaming up to help. If you cant provide any evidence then thats fine. I have all of the Phoenix comics and have looked for evidence and have not found anything. So show me the evidence other than saying well Dark Phoenix was immortal and umm had red hair...?

Whoa. You're way off. Dark Phoenix isn't really even Jean Grey. When the Phoenix Force came into contact with human emotion, it became sentient, and uncontrollable.

Essentially, Dark Phoenix is the Phoenix Force with human emotion.

I can't imagine how Superman would even have a chance at defeating it.

Info on the Sword Of Superman

Link 1

Link 2
Superman Prime can take this.

The sword has nothing on someone who is part of creation and life. What feats has Superman Prime ever done? DP toys with the universe on a daily basis.

I looked for a picture or even a summary of a comic that said Superman Prime had the Sword of Superman again. What I found was nothing but forum word of mouth stories. Again.

The lantern ring is mentioned every time but the Sword of Superman is only mentioned during the pre-crisis story and that was when he busted down heaven's gates. Not post-crisis Superman Prime.

Not even in the geocities sites have I found a description of Prime that included the sword.

So until I see a scan of Superman Prime holding the sword, I will go with what I found. And that is Superman Prime sat in the sun for thousands of years and had a GL ring and nothing else.

Phoenix can destroy universe, Superman Prime is joke.

PRIME IS TOO FAST FO PHEONIX