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In the Christian community there seems to be 2 different views on WHO the chosen people of God are.

I have my own idea, but would like to hear some opinions.
No need for any lengthy scriptures, paraphrasing works with me.

hummmm

Maybe this is too hot a topic.

i say neither are Gods people.
i can't say a lot about the jews but i know a lot of "fake" christians with fake sprituality

according to the bible it is the Israelites

If there is a god, the chosen people would be all people who simply believe in him...duh! But there is no personal, religious god - that is utterly ridiculous and selfish of people to think so.

According to the Bible, it is the descendants of Abraham... although any that claim descent from Esau are probably discounted, depending on how you read the birthright thing... that means the people of the twelve Tribes, including Judah and that bit of Benjamin that became the Jews, plus the other ten (well, nine and two halves, to be precise) that made up the kingdom of Israel.... although Jesus graciously said some others would be allowed into Heaven, if they kept the rules, but not is such anb exalted position as the chosen... unless of course St Paul added that bit later to increase his revenue pool....

You know Philos right. It would be all who believed in Him. When we believe, we are part of Abrahams seed. There is no Jew or Gentile, male or female, but all equal in the sight of God.

Good question.I would have to say jews.Being that god was a jew and they are supose to be his chosen people because he picked a jewish girl to give birth to him.JM

But just by saying that you say Christians (that follow exactly that god) are right, while Jews that don'T belive in Jesus being god are wrong but the chosen people, WTF

^Good point the Jews rejected God, so they are no longer His chosen people, only the believers in Jesus are, with all believing Jews.

We are graphed into the originial tree. There is only 1 group, Not male,female, Jew or Gentile, Only one people! If you believe then you are apart of Abrahams seed (who was Jewish) God went to the Jews first so that they could teach the world, but they were selfish and wanted to exclude everyone. They were to be an example to the world and the gentiles would be added, but instead they killed their Messiah.

Odin's chosen people are any that die bravely in battle.... regardless of anything else.... in Islam it is those who submit totally to the wishes of God as outlined in the Quran... hence the name Islam... submission to Allah....

did the Jews reject god?? Or did they simply refuse to follow any of the hundred or so Messiahs who appeared at the same time as Jesus.... it all hinges on whether or not Jesus was sent from God, or if he, like St Paul, was a charlatan after some fame and fortune....

not according to them

What other Messiahs who appeared at the same time. examples please. ??

The Jews did reject their Messiah..The Pharasis wanted to keep the people under their power..They would lose it if the people chose the Messiah..So really it was the Jewish leaders who turned the people against Christ, and the people Listened to what those leaders said, though not all of them.

John the Baptist.... Ananias....

But John the Baptist and Ananias never said they were Messiahs. John said He was waiting for Him

Only according to the bible.... other, non biblical evidence shows that there was a bit of a power struggle between the two, with disciples jumping ship, harsh words etc... after the death of John, the Jesus faction jumped out, started the "John was preparing the way" thing and attempted to recruit his followers... up to the second century (and later, if some of the tales of the Templars are to be believed) there were still non-Christian John followers... "Messiahs" were ten a penny in first century Judea.... the Roman writers of the time mention loads of them in connection with jewish unrest... the Nazarene Congregation was simply the most successful, and then only after the original disciples ran out of money, and Saul of Tarsus bailed them out....

says who, christians who are an opposing religion. Whatever makes the christians the ones to decide what is right and wrong beside their conceited ways to say they are it.

Read it again s-l-o-w-l-y

I said in the "Christian Cummunity".

you really dont want my definition of that community

I already know your difinition of the Christian cummuniy. Though the Jews and Christians follow the same basic rules like the 10 commandments. The only difference, is that the Jews didn't accept Jesus as their Messiah. That is where the split was. They're still waiting for Him.. I think He's late.

no you dont.

According to the Bible... as hiddenly recorded in the Books of Revelation...

There are three nations of God - which are considered His chosen people.

The first nation was the Israel... but did they remain loyal to God's commandments? The Bible has plainly recorded that in the Old Testament. That's why God sent His prophets to reform His nation which was in rebellion status.

400 years later... God sent His Son to recover His lost nation. Jesus built the Church in accrodance to God's will. But did it remain loyal to God and Christ? As prophesied they won't. History repeats itself. God once again sent His messengers to reform the Church which was turning from the truth and embraced paganism.

400 years later... the last nation of God was reestablished by virtue of the prophecies written in the Bible.

Now, who were the true chosen people of God?

The Israelites who died loyal to God's commandments.

The members of the early Church and loyal to Christ's admonition and remained faithful to the will of God.

The members of the reestablished Church by virtue of Biblical prophecies, followed the last messenger of God... and remained loyal to the words of God written in the Bible, the teachings of Christ and of the Apostles.

So there were three groups as declared by Christ Himself:

Those were the Jews, the children of the Jews, and those who are far off and yet to be called.

m'kay.
If this is just aboot the christian community I always thought that Chiristians belived that they were gods chosen peopl, if they thought the jews were they would surely be jewish wouldn't they?

Maybe they should be. Maybe Christianity swayed away from the truth.
Maybe it's being Jewish and believing in the Messiah

debbiejo, you forgot about Muslims....

I asked for views in the Christian community. The Muslims aren't part of the "Christian Community."

Neither are the people of the Jewish Faith.
*Takes hand in form of gun, and mock shots himself in the head....*
Muslims consider themselves the people of "God" as well.

I know Muslims consider themselves the people of God too. Probably many religions do, but the question was concerning the Christian faith.
----Their doctrine, that is taught.----

The Jewish People believe in completely different things than the "Christian Community", (except for the basic belief in God and most of what's in the Holy Bible version of the "Old Testament".
Please, don't roll your eyes at me - you look like a real jack@$$ when you do.

Oh, and please, kids visit this forum: It's "Community", not "CUMmunity" - j/k, I know that was an honest mistake....or was it?

you have a problem with CUMmunities. Yeah anyhow Muslims are as much part of the Christian CUMmunity as are Jews

eh ok .............actually how are they(jews/muslims) just as much part of the chrisitan community

Oh....leave my Cummunity alone.

But how can the Muslims be apart of a "Christian community?" They're Muslims, not Christians.

Jews, Christians and Muslims, along with Sikhs and Zoroastrians are Peoples of the Book.... in other words, they have one God and have a written scripture which does not contradict the Quran.... as a Muslim once put it... "Jews are old fashioned Muslims, Christians are mistaken Muslims, Sikhs are hybrid Muslims, and Parsees are misguided Muslims...."

How can they have written scripture that does not contradict the Quaran?

Jesus said that there would be a new chosen people, as stated in the bible.

What is known as the new convenant.

jews,christians,and muslims CAN be somewhat classified together.
One follows the next almost like a trilogy

A Definition of Christianity:

An authoritarian system that limits man's liberty and represses the human spirit.

The End.

Therefore, if there is a god, he/she/it's not camping in either the Jewish woods or the Xian valleys. Both sets of nutters are talking to themselves.

jews are jews and not christians

you can throw in most religious groups into that definition

Thats what I meant, neither Muslkims nor Jews are part of the Christian Cummunity, I was just responding to debbiejo who said Jews were which they are not but then she said muslims aren't thats why I said, Either you accept both Jews and Muslims as Christians (which of course is ridicolous) or none.

If non-jews and non-christians are NOT god's people, then does that mean that he has no authority over them

what the hell are you babling about?

No it doesn'T, youzr sig is duisgusting by the way, she's dead man, ****ing DEAD.

But since there is no god he has no authority aboot non-christians and non-jews and all the rest.

I wanted to get a Christian perspective because of the different views with dispensations. One view says that the Jews are Gods chosen people and in the end they will all come to except the messiah. They will rebuilt their temple, and start sacrifices and then become believers. That's the dispositional view.

The older view is that in Dan. 9, the sacrifices that will be put to an end has already happened, not future. They stopped when the Messiah was crucified. There would be no purpose for the sacrifices to be started again. Because the Jews rejected their Messiah and kept sacrificing, God had the temple destroyed for good in AD 70. Then he put the dome of the Rock there just to make sure. The temple will never be rebuilt

When the Jews rejected their Messiah, the message went to the gentiles.

Riddle me this: Honestly, how many Christians would actually positively respond to some nutter saying he was the second coming of Christ?
None.
They'd burn him on the stake for blasphemy, and the Catholic Church would condemn him to Hell.
Now, as was said in another thread, imagine over 2,000 years ago, when countless people were running around claiming they were the Messiah: Would you believe one nutter over all the rest?
NO.
The Christians, (had they been in the same position), would have demanded Barabus (sp?) to be freed instead of Christ, because they'd be infuriated with all the non-Messiahs going around claiming to BE Messiahs.

Interestingly enough, there is good reason to believe that Barrabus and jesus were the same person... several times in the NT Jesus is given the epithet, "Bar Nagara," or son of the carpenter.... as "Carpenter" was 1st century slang for a rabbi, or teacher, it is quite probable that Jesus would also be known as "Bar Rabbi..." Latinise that, and it becomes Barrabus.... also, may I point out that the supposed "custom" of freeing a prisoner for Passover actually didn't exist.... can you imagine the Romans freeing a dangerous criminal to appease a people they saw as intolerant troublemakers.... especially an especially intolerant and bloodthirsty authoritarian roman like Pilate...??

Don't I know it! All I get is abuse from the Xian factions of our merry ole world! They think I'm some kind of prankster! So what if I'm down wid hip-hop, biznitches and blunts!?! That doesn't make me not Jesus! I've had some time to think since my last cruise around the block and I've chilled da fook out and realised it's all about the love below. Check me...Peas.

yeah and those fooking white coated dudes is looking for ya yet again

But she's coming back to life soon

i beleive that the jews are gods chosen people thats why jesus was so intent on teaching them otherwise why wast so much time with the jews only to be killed.

also you dits dont cusee cause it rude anoyin and dumb or put porno graphic images on the fourum.

ehh........... you really thought this through

Jews are God's chosen people. However when they rejected Christ as the Messiah, it opened the door for Gentiles to also be saved....when they become Christians...they are grafted into the tree of life

I agree

Oh not you too Julie!

Ah....

So if Jews are God's people then everyone else is going to hell? And If Christians are God's chosen people then everyone else is also going to hell?

Thats a lot of people going to hell...

Oh no! I'm going to burn in Hell!

No....I don't believe that at all....

I think God judges you on what you know, or what you were exposed to.


He is just and would never do anything contrary...If you think other wise then that's a churches teaching, not scripture.

Besides....people don't burn in hell for ever according to scripture. If you think so..then that's a denominations teaching.

takes us back to Sodom and Gomorrah tale, some just action by your god there

The "Chosen people" are the ones who would choose God. The ones who dont, well there is no mention that there is anything nice waiting for them. Oh, quite the contrary. Now you might not feel that is nice but it is just.

If god created everyone on this earth then everyone is his chosen people - he is after all the definer - he created all, so he's responsible for all actions by anyone.

That would only hold true if he was controlling them, which he most certainly does not. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

NO. We are controled by GOD in every sense of the word - think about it - God's will permeates everything - HE IS everything - we are part of his being - we live in and as him - so HE controls absolutely everything - God is greatness and infinity itself and would never let anything to the free will or choice of his creatures.

Also, God is not good or bad in the effects of his controling nature, but he is only great - he both gives and takes life, where in the case of taking life he utilises natural causes and killers or murderers.

Incorrect. We are not controlled by God, if we were then nothing bad would ever have happend. God would never make people do wrong, thats a huge contradiction. It is the opposite of God's nature that is bad and evil. To do something not in accordance with his will, is a personal choice. God hates sin, never created, nor condoned and most certainly didnt force it.



God did punish man with death in the body.

if you believe god created everything sin has to be one of gods creation, unless you believe someone else had its finger in the creation process

You consider sin a creation? If it was, it was created by disobedience not by God. The capacity was there to choose but it just isnt in God's nature to make sin or evil.

according to the belief god created everything.
and disobedience came from where?

I dont know that its the christian belief that God created sin. Disobedience is said to have originated with Lucifer who wanted equality with God and deceived a third of the hosts of Angels to turn with him.

God would never even tempt somebody to do wrong. It doesnt even make sense, thats entirely against his will. It is though, that he will allow it. Does allowing the possibility mean creating it? I wouldnt say so, its just not stopping it when it commenced.

who created the angles?

God, but he not only didnt force them to but most certainly didnt even tempt them to disobey.

if god created them and they were diobedient then god aint the perfect being after all.

Well, I dont believe thats accurate. God created everything good and untainted. So when those angels disobeyed, it wasnt because they werent created "good". They were created good but God did not control their decisions. The ones who choose disobedience, therefore brought evil into existence. It didnt exist prior before because so long as God's will is obeyed, there is no such thing.

I will say though, God was obviously aware of the concept. His awareness though does not make that thing a reality. It was the actions of others that brought it into existence.

that means your good aint a perfect being, god couldnt controll its own creation

God is neither godd or bad clickclick, but he merely is! Only the Bible tells the crap about God being good. God is Nature - he is everything and causes everything, period.

Couldnt? Technically that is not correct. Choose not to is more like it.

Player im not going to agree with you so...........

Okay......

According to Scripture God is neither good nor just.... he is jealous, and definitely plays favourites.... and if you actually read the Bible (and I mean a proper one, not the heavily expurgated "feelgood" version like the Good news bible...)you will find, in Isaiah, if I remember correctly, "Good and evil, I created them both..." straight from the Deity's own mouth...

God does play favorites, to the ones who are the most loyal to him. As to being jealous, its insulting to have people worshipping fake Gods. As to creating evil, what kind of evil is being spoken of?

Whats the context?

If I remember my Isaiah, just evil in general... remember, the Jews held their God to be God of everything... they had no concept of a "Devil" until they were exposed to dualistic religions in Babylon and Persia during the captivity....

technically you dont know whats correct you can only believe, I say couldnt

But your statement is only based on your own speculation. It never says in the bible that he couldnt control his creation, only that he didnt want to. So, that isnt in accordance with what you are saying.

Not doing and cant do are two different things.

does it say that this god didnt want to control the angles, many use the excuse that I dont want to do it when the fact is they cant do it

Yes it does say that Satan is under God's sovereignty. He can only do what God allows him to do. It says that all are under his sovereignty.

talk about loosing control

Jews.

I'm curious: what do most people think "Chosen People" means?

Who ever ends up killing all the rest off. The winner is always Gods Chosed.

gnostic jews

Originally posted by Mindship
I'm curious: what do most people think "Chosen People" means?

Hmm. Perhaps I did not phrase the question properly.
It's been my experience that many people (Jewish or otherwise) interpret "Chosen People" as meaning one of privilege, God's favorite.
However, nothing could be further from the truth. It means, if anything, a people burdened with additional responsibility: setting the example of how people should behave, particularly how people should treat one another, with kindness and respect.
Any group of people would have done: in God's eyes, ancient Hebrews were no more (or less) deserving of grace than any other people. It was just that, since God had a Plan, someone had to be "it."

^ are you talking to yourself?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
^ are you talking to yourself?

Any answer I come up with is just gonna make debbiejo refer back to that "other" (with yourself) thread.

Originally posted by debbiejo
In the Christian community there seems to be 2 different views on WHO the chosen people of God are.

I have my own idea, but would like to hear some opinions.
No need for any lengthy scriptures, paraphrasing works with me. ews are bbut I don't know why.

Originally posted by big gay kirk
According to the Bible, it is the descendants of Abraham... although any that claim descent from Esau are probably discounted, depending on how you read the birthright thing... that means the people of the twelve Tribes, including Judah and that bit of Benjamin that became the Jews, plus the other ten (well, nine and two halves, to be precise) that made up the kingdom of Israel.... although Jesus graciously said some others would be allowed into Heaven, if they kept the rules, but not is such anb exalted position as the chosen... unless of course St Paul added that bit later to increase his revenue pool.... CChhosen people ddoesn't necessarilyy imply an exhaulted status, at leaast the jews don't think it does.

Originally posted by debbiejo
But John the Baptist and Ananias never said they were Messiahs. John said He was waiting for Him Was Barabus sopposed to be a messiiah. The jews said there were different people who claimed to be the messiah but I don't know if there were any others at that time.

I don't think Barabus was one...I thought he was a rebel leader.

Originally posted by finti
eh ok .............actually how are they(jews/muslims) just as much part of the chrisitan community Neither one are, that's why he said muslims are just as much a part as the jews. Some jews consider islamm closer to juddaism then christianity because muslims don't believe in the trinity and they supposedly follow the Noachide laws.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
So if Jews are God's people then everyone else is going to hell? And If Christians are God's chosen people then everyone else is also going to hell?

Thats a lot of people going to hell... No, it depends on what they were chosen for. They think it was to keep the Torah, as guardians of the torah it''s strange they don't believe in proselytizing.

Originally posted by debbiejo
In the Christian community there seems to be 2 different views on WHO the chosen people of God are.

I have my own idea, but would like to hear some opinions.
No need for any lengthy scriptures, paraphrasing works with me.

The Jews are Gods chosen people even though most of them dont follow Christ. Thats just how its been from the beginning.

Originally posted by Mindship
I'm curious: what do most people think "Chosen People" means? They think they are choosen to keep the law of moses andd to bring forth the messsiah whenn the time comes. I think they were chosen to keep the law and they have brought forth the messiah.. I realy don't know if they still are the chosen people but I think they are.

Originally posted by Mindship
Hmm. Perhaps I did not phrase the question properly.
It's been my experience that many people (Jewish or otherwise) interpret "Chosen People" as meaning one of privilege, God's favorite.
However, nothing could be further from the truth. It means, if anything, a people burdened with additional responsibility: setting the example of how people should behave, particularly how people should treat one another, with kindness and respect.
Any group of people would have done: in God's eyes, ancient Hebrews were no more (or less) deserving of grace than any other people. It was just that, since God had a Plan, someone had to be "it." So he just said eeny meeny miny mo... you're it? I think it had more to do with the covenannt of Abraham.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I don't think Barabus was one...I thought he was a rebel leader. He was but that is what they wanted at that time. I think that was one reason judas betrayed jesus.

Originally posted by markie
So he just said eeny meeny miny mo... you're it? I think it had more to do with the covenannt of Abraham.

Absolutely. But why did He make the covenant with Abraham, so that his seed would be the "light unto nations?" Abe was a righteous dude, but no more deserving of God's grace than anyone else in town. He wasn't already so special that this is why God picked him. God picking him made Abraham special.

God has an agenda, certain things have to get done. You get a bunch of tools to do the various jobs--doesn't mean one tool is "better" than the others. It's just best for that job.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I don't think Barabus was one...I thought he was a rebel leader.

although there is evidence to suggest that Barrabus and Jesus were one and the same.....

Originally posted by big gay kirk
although there is evidence to suggest that Barrabus and Jesus were one and the same.....

That would make sense to me.

Originally posted by Mindship
Absolutely. But why did He make the covenant with Abraham, so that his seed would be the "light unto nations?" Abe was a righteous dude, but no more deserving of God's grace than anyone else in town. He wasn't already so special that this is why God picked him. God picking him made Abraham special.

God has an agenda, certain things have to get done. You get a bunch of tools to do the various jobs--doesn't mean one tool is "better" than the others. It's just best for that job. Though this is a common theme in myth stories.

Originally posted by markie
No, it depends on what they were chosen for. They think it was to keep the Torah, as guardians of the torah it''s strange they don't believe in proselytizing.

I had read somewhere, a long time ago, that because Judaism is not a proselytizing faith, that Maimonedes considered Christianity and Islam to be the proselytizing arms of Judaism, a means of making the world aware of the One and Only True God.

Of course, I would imagine that he did not exactly approve of their methods over the centuries.

According to tanakh ( hebrew bible ) the choosen people of YHWH are those who are part of his covenent, to be part of his covenent you must be circumcisioned and abide by his laws, Christians claim that there belief in jesus makes them choosen but there are many people throught jewish history that have claimed to be "THE MESSIAH" and example is Sabbetai Zevi.

i think the Jews are God's chosen ppl but i dont think that means the catholics, christians, etc... are destined to hell idk just my idea i guess we'll never know till we die or w/e ya'll believe

Originally posted by stop_sign
i think the Jews are God's chosen ppl but i dont think that means the catholics, christians, etc... are destined to hell idk just my idea i guess we'll never know till we die or w/e ya'll believe

Christians believe jesus is "the messiah" despite he never fulfilled one messianic prophecy If people would actually read the bible they would see this...

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Christians believe jesus is "the messiah" despite he never fulfilled one messianic prophecy If people would actually read the bible they would see this...

I tell Christians that all the time, set down and read the bible from cover to cover, I did.

Originally posted by Blue nocturne
Christians believe jesus is "the messiah" despite he never fulfilled one messianic prophecy If people would actually read the bible they would see this... According to Christians he did fulfill many prophecies.

I'm trying but it's sooo long but It's cool story though love it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
In the Christian community there seems to be 2 different views on WHO the chosen people of God are.

I have my own idea, but would like to hear some opinions.
No need for any lengthy scriptures, paraphrasing works with me. There is no God shock

How do you know?

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
There is no God shock

What if the universe was alive with an alien intelligence, could you call that God?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What if the universe was alive with an alien intelligence, could you call that God? I would call it an Alien intelligence

What if god is really really giant big....

Originally posted by debbiejo
What if god is really really giant big.... then he will eat us all

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
then he will eat us all I hope it's a vegetarian god....Let it eat the trees..

Originally posted by debbiejo
I hope it's a vegetarian god....Let it eat the trees.. Bah, God eats what he pleases even if he is nothungry. What ever makes our lives suck more

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
I would call it an Alien intelligence

It's a little long and doesn't role off the tough like God does. Like: Oh my Alien intelligence! See...

YAWAH....the hungry mean god.......Jesus the nice god.....Jesus wouldn't eat anybody......

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It's a little long and doesn't role off the tough like God does. Like: Oh my Alien intelligence! See... True but lets call it AI shock

Originally posted by debbiejo
YAWAH....the hungry mean god.......Jesus the nice god.....Jesus wouldn't eat anybody...... How about santa the nice God

Originally posted by debbiejo
YAWAH....the hungry mean god.......Jesus the nice god.....Jesus wouldn't eat anybody......

Oh ya! just ask Marry.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Oh ya! just ask Marry. Jesus ate Mary????.........God went down on Mary?????????..hahahaha

Originally posted by debbiejo
According to Christians he did fulfill many prophecies.

Christians are funny people they believe there original faith is wrong and there right

I am glad i never was one