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ok whos every1's fav guitarist/ 's of al time???
mine would hav to be kirk hammett and zakk wylde






















ne1 who thanls slipknot is the best.... GIVE ME A HELL YEAH!!!

Wow, tough one....

Jimi Hendrix?

I will have to say Joe Satriani for he has taken guitar playing to the next level and because tought Kirk Hammit how to play.

Definitely agree with what bilb and room#99 have said...

Tom Morello can definitely do some wicked stuff with a guitar

Tom morello's work with Audioslave is amazing,that solo in like stone is just different from what you allways hear.

The best rock guitarist is definately Jimi Hendrix and the beat classic one is Segovia.

Hendrix, Iommi, Morrello, Hammett, Randy Rhoads, Dimebag, Al Di Meola

uh arent we missing Jimmy Page here?!?!?!

Carlos Santana gets overlooked alot... definately not THE best, but he's up there

NO! Jimi aint the best, he is not good by todays standards! Yngwie Malmsteen, John Norum, and Mattias IA Eklundh are by FAR better then your little jimi and they are even better then Joe Satriani!

B.B. King

The Pimp pimpdroolio

Hi korri!

Hi WD!

+ Jimmy Page and Brian May

i agree but not on that they are better the joe satriani

Satriani, Vai etc are better than Jimi technically. As far as actual technical ability.

Jimi made by far the best guitar music ever. No one else can do what he could. So Hendrix.

-AC

Dude have you ever heard Mattias IA Eklundh ???? he owns Joe in all ways

pimp... droolio

man recommend me songs!!!!

Dont forget George Harrison, Eric Clapton and Keith Richards.

This is ludicrous. Seriously.

I know what you mean

lord andres is right Jimi was Fantastic abck in his days, today he is just avrege, sorry if i offended anyone, this my own freakin opinion.

Today he is still cited by many great guitarists as the best there ever was. Dunno where you got "average" from.

That word and Jimi Hendrix should never be used in reference to each other. Jimi, love him or not, will never be anything short of astounding.

-AC

okay if you say so, i on the other hand have a different opinion.

But when i listen to jimi and the other guitarists lord mentiond i see they are much talented then he ever was. so thats why i said by todays standards he is not that special. and thats comming from someone who loves his music!

"But when i listen to jimi and the other guitarists lord mentiond i see they are much talented then he ever was. so thats why i said by todays standards he is not that special. and thats comming from someone who loves his music!"

Just because you love his music it doesn't make your claiming him average any more concrete. He is NOT average, that's a fact. You "see" that they are as talented, I don't. I see they might be more technically able, but they aren't better musicians. I'll take All Along The Watchtower over anything those guitarists have put out.

-AC

he is averge by todays stanards! joe satriani by him self has atleast 10 songs that are better then all along the watchtower musically/technecally.

"joe satriani by him self has atleast 10 songs that are better then all along the watchtower musically/technecally"

Technically maybe, musically I don't agree.

-AC

okay then we have different opinions on that. Still they are bother great guitar players.

Indeed.

-AC

um i would have to say my picks whould be yingwie malmsteen, and dan donegan(from disturbed)

No mention of Frank Zappa? I should slap ya'll.

The best guitarists of all time are Eric Clapton, Prince, and Charro.

Dave Davies (The Kinks)

Stuart Adamson (Big Country)

David Gilmour (Pink Floyd)

Brian May (Queen)

Originally posted by eggmayo
Randy Rhoads

My older brother was named after him.

I dont get how anyone can say Malmsteen is the best ever. Sure he's fast, but not innovative or unique. Sure, he can own Tom Morrelo when it comes to speed, but I still consider Morello a far better guitarist.

Funny, because that's exactly how many guitarists look at Synyster Gates. Try telling that to an Avenged fan and they throw fits more or less.

-AC

Originally posted by room #99
he is averge by todays stanards! joe satriani by him self has atleast 10 songs that are better then all along the watchtower musically/technecally.

joe satriani is no doubt an absolutely immense technician...but he has all the soul and feeling of a house brick...lets not forget the techniques that jimi invented without the aid of all the technical gadgetry that todays guitarists enjoy

and lets establish 1 clear fact about playing the guitar...fast does not = good...

To quote Total Guitar, "Paul Gilbert has more technique than a 10th dan black belt". He's not better than Hendrix creatively though.

-AC

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Prince

Fo' sure.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Funny, because that's exactly how many guitarists look at Synyster Gates. Try telling that to an Avenged fan and they throw fits more or less.

-AC

Are you insinuating that I do that? Becasue what Im saying is that although I certainly admire fast guitarists, I have more respect for those who are truly unique and innovative. Hence my previous statement.

I actually think you're the most open-minded Avenged fan I've met here. You don't have a coronary when someone suggests otherwise.

-AC

Thats cool. Frankly, Id rather hear that someone hates a band I consider good, than hear someone loves a band that I think is trash.

I don't even hate Avenged Sevenfold to be fair. If they hadn't been overly felched this year (which they have) by silly kids then that probably wouldn't have counted against.

I think they're just a standard rock band who are more technically able than most other STANDARD rock bands. I don't think they're the shittest band ever, I just think they're mediocre. You could do far worse, just also far better. I have nothing against them. If they actually started making music I consider to be worthy of buying, I'd do so.

As of right now, I just think they're a really mediocre rock band not doing anything different.

-AC

jimmy page, hendrix, satriani and angus young. mayb david gilmour.

Jim Hendrix and Carlos Santana!

Hendrix and Santana are the best but Cobain is the most influential and my favorite.

jose feliciano was insane when young nobody like him, ****ing amazing

It's clearly Hendrix. So who besides him?

Prince, in my opinion.

-AC

DIMEBAG DARRELL hands down he never learnt theory and he still kicks ass
SDMF RIP DIME

Early Age-Jimmy Page, Van Halen, Hendrix, Angus Young, Eric Clapton, Tony Iommi and quite a few more.

New gen-Tom Morrello and Randy Rhodes.

Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Yngwie Malmsteen.

Brian May : underrated guitar player, has that unique sound.

Frank Zappa : not easy listening, but great technique !

Jimmy Hendrix : not a favorite of mine, but I respect him.

Segovia : almost perfect combination of warmth and technique

Morello : nah, I'm not that impressed.

Joey Santiago : nobody mentions him here ! The shame ! Vamos Joey, play that guitar !!

Clapton : was once truly amazing, now he's just a good guitar player.

Mark Knopfler : the man can write a song.

Satriani, Vai and Malmsteen : not my cup of tea.

Also I'd like to mention :

- Neil Young
- Joni Mitchell
- Jeff Beck
- Eddie Van Halen
- Jan Ackerman
- Jimmy Page
- Carlos Santana
- Angus Young

Pete Townshend (the who also contains best drummer)

Originally posted by who?-kid
Brian May : underrated guitar player, has that unique sound.

Frank Zappa : not easy listening, but great technique !

Jimmy Hendrix : not a favorite of mine, but I respect him.

Segovia : almost perfect combination of warmth and technique

Morello : nah, I'm not that impressed.

Joey Santiago : nobody mentions him here ! The shame ! Vamos Joey, play that guitar !!

Clapton : was once truly amazing, now he's just a good guitar player.

Mark Knopfler : the man can write a song.

Satriani, Vai and Malmsteen : not my cup of tea.

Also I'd like to mention :

- Neil Young
- Joni Mitchell
- Jeff Beck
- Eddie Van Halen
- Jan Ackerman
- Jimmy Page
- Carlos Santana
- Angus Young

What are you on about? This is about best guitarist ever, so you can't choose who has talent or not. Morello is actually a blinding and innovative player.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What are you on about? This is about best guitarist ever, so you can't choose who has talent or not. Morello is actually a blinding and innovative player.

-AC
I knew somebody would "disagree".

I'm not that fond of Morello and I don't have to justify myself to you. If you think he's the greatest guitar player of all eternity, that's good for you.

But, I hope you realize there is no such thing as "best guitar player", right ? It's all a matter of opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by who?-kid
I knew somebody would "disagree".

I'm not that fond of Morello and I don't have to justify myself to you. If you think he's the greatest guitar player of all eternity, that's good for you.

But, I hope you realize there is no such thing as "best guitar player", right ? It's all a matter of opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

I wasn't aware we were discussing preference, I thought we were discussing factually technically talented players of a high degree, of which Morello is one undeniably.

Prefering his style or music isn't relevant to him being a factually great technician. Some people don't like Vai or Satch, it doesn't mean they aren't two of the best players on Earth. You can't prefer who is talented and who isn't, if someone has an ability that puts them above others, that's how it is. It's quite contradictory of you to say Zappa has great technique and then say Satch and Vai aren't your "cup of tea". It doesn't matter if they are or not, if we're discussing ability. Like them or hate them, they are arguably the most talented from a technical standpoint than any guitarist you named. Hendrix is in my opinion the best ever, but not technically, because he's not.

I don't think Morello is the best ever, but you put it across as you not being impressed by him means that he's not got a place here, and he has. Unless we are discussing the music they make, then it's not subjective.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I wasn't aware we were discussing preference, I thought we were discussing factually technically talented players of a high degree, of which Morello is one undeniably.

Prefering his style or music isn't relevant to him being a factually great technician. Some people don't like Vai or Satch, it doesn't mean they aren't two of the best players on Earth. You can't prefer who is talented and who isn't, if someone has an ability that puts them above others, that's how it is. It's quite contradictory of you to say Zappa has great technique and then say Satch and Vai aren't your "cup of tea". It doesn't matter if they are or not, if we're discussing ability. Like them or hate them, they are arguably the most talented from a technical standpoint than any guitarist you named. Hendrix is in my opinion the best ever, but not technically, because he's not.

I don't think Morello is the best ever, but you put it across as you not being impressed by him means that he's not got a place here, and he has. Unless we are discussing the music they make, then it's not subjective.

-AC
Fair enough.

The thread starter didn't specify what he meant : technically the best guitar player, or just the guitar player you like the most.

Doesn't matter though. Kyle Gass beats them all

Fair play.

-AC

Keith Urban is pretty amazing.

Isn't he a country singer or something?

Oh, and how could I forget John Petrucci?

I'd put him up there.

Do you guys even like music? Seriously, how'd it take an entire page to mention clapton?

Jimmy page, and Keith Urban are on this? FOR SHAME! Country has NO great guitar.

Seriously, nobody is better than Clapton. Just listen to Crossroads, Cocain, LALYA! People, open your ears!

When everyone was in awe of Clapton, Clapton was in awe of Hendrix.

I think people forget that Hendrix died at 27, meaning everything he did in the guitar world happened before he was 25/26. Do you even realise what that means?

-AC

Peter Lindgren

lenny kravitz

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!
Jimmy page, and Keith Urban are on this? FOR SHAME! Country has NO great guitar.

Originally posted by P, that Dude
lenny kravitz

Advice: Stick to the hip hop thread.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Advice: Stick to the hip hop thread.

-AC

lol

im just joking

hehehe

Jimmy Page!

Jimmy>>>Clapton, Kravits?, my self, Hendrix

I would put David Gilmour up there too.

Jimmy Page, Dimebag, Eddie van Halen
and JIMI HENDRIX is god among guitarists!

Frank Zappa.

Hendrix, or Slash.

DARON MALAKIAN

My favorites and who I believe are the best from what I've heard:
Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen, Joe Satriani, John Petrucci, David Gilmour, Eric Clapton

Honorable mention: Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Dimebag Darrell, Slash, Kirk Hamett

toni iommi from black sabbath

Jimi Hendrix and Angus Young.

Top 10 Guitarists....

10 - Keith Richards of the Rolling stones

9 - Jimmy Paige of Led Zeppelin

8 - Ry Cooder

7 - Stevey Ray Vaughan

6 - Chuck Berry

5 - Robert Johnson

4 - Eric Clapton

3 - BB. King

2 - Duane Allman of the Allman Brothers Band

And the Greatest Guitarist of all time is

1 - Jimi Hendrix

To me. if I had to pick ten, these artists are it. In no real order:


Derek Trucks
Chet Atkins
Popa Chubby
Jeff Beck
Roy Buchanon
David Gilmour
Rory Gallagher
Mark Knopler
Gary Moore
Danny Gatten

1. Eric Clapton
2. Jerry Garcia
3. Jimi Hendrix
4. David Gimour
5. Kurt Cobain
6. Keith Richards
7. Chuck Berry
8. Paul McCartney
9. Jeff Beck
10. Mark Knopler

There Ya Have It

I'm wondering how Jeff Beck is below Kurt Cobain and Paul McCartney.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm wondering how Jeff Beck is below Kurt Cobain and Paul McCartney.

-AC

I'm still not sure as to the real topic....I mean thread title and initial posts give contradicting messages...anyways, it might be about personal preference.

did I say Pat Metheny? have you heard him, anyone?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm wondering how Jeff Beck is below Kurt Cobain and Paul McCartney.

-AC

I didnt have time to think about the exact order, so that is roughly my opinion of it.

Paul McCartney is a bassist.

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!

Jimmy page, and Keith Urban are on this? FOR SHAME! Country has NO great guitar.


ah...do your homework better next time...i take it you never heard of Chet Atkins then..God bless him..he was THE best guitarrist one could find amongst country musicians..

Originally posted by vanice
did I say Pat Metheny? have you heard him, anyone? Yeah, Metheny is the shit. Great jazz guitarist. Personally prefer John McLaughlin as far as jazz guitarists go, though.

for me it is a cross between Daron Malakian and Pete Townshend

has anyone heard theRaveups's version of "waht do you want?" ? i saw them live and it was fantastic, just like clapton but better! anyway fat tube tone! try on google - theraveups - all one word

I quite like James Iha also.

James Iha is absolutely dreadful and is one of the few people I would genuinely advise to stop writing music.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
James Iha is absolutely dreadful and is one of the few people I would genuinely advise to stop writing music.

-AC

I don't care about your opinions... w00t

hide's (X Japan) pretty awesome.

I really like Omar Rodriguez-Lopez's work with The Mars Volta

my favorites not in order
Dimebag Darrell
Jon Schaffer
Buckethead
Yngwie Malmsteen
John Petrucci
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Paul Gilbert
Eric Johnson
Tom Morello

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Paul McCartney is a bassist.
well, you should listen to the white album then. good stuff.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not my opinion that he's not one of the best guitarists of all time, it's a fact.

-AC

Greatness is in the eye of the beholder. Just because some magazine doesn't print it up doesn't mean it's not true. I enjoy his music, therefor he's great in my eyes... I couldn't give a care in the world to who you believe to be great.

what about dave mustaine or marty friedman??

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A) It's not in the eye of the beholder if we're discussing ability, which is what the title implies.

B) This isn't originally intended to be about who you like or don't like, is it? The title is "Who is the best guitarist of all time?", not "Who do you really like?".

The former catagory has not featured, nor will it ever feature, James Iha. That is a fact.

-AC
The opening post produced this "ok whos every1's fav guitarist/ 's of al time???"

Prove to me that a favourite guitarist has to be all about technical ability... The thread starter was barely specific... You're just being a being a pedantic fool, either that of your just a fool who posts a reply from the thread title without having read any of the posts in the actual thread.

Either way you're an A-Grade (f/t)ool.

Jimi hendrix & Prince

Prince is so underrated! I'd put him in my top 5 Easily. That's more than I can say for Kurt Cobain or James Iha ( I am a fan of both, but they aren't legendary by any mean when it comes to their guitar playing ability).

Here is my top ten actually.

10. Slash -GNR, Velvet Revolver
9. Alex Lifeson -Rush
8. Brian May -Queen
7. Randy Rhoads -Quiet Riot, Ozzy
6. Joe Satriani -Solo
5. Eddie Van Halen -Van Halen
4. Jeff Beck -Yardbirds, Jeff Beck Group, Solo
3. Prince -Prince, Etc...
2. Eric Clapton -Yardbirds, Cream, Derek & The Dominos, Solo
1. Jimi Hendrix -Jimi Hendrix Experience

Now my favorite guitarist would have to be...Jack White probally as of right now. I love the Music he puts out. So there, I answered both Favorite and best. Whatever this thread is about...

Joe Satriani
Steve Vai
Eric Johnson
Steve Lukather
Tom Morello
Buckethead
Paul Gilbert
John Petrucci
Al Di Meola

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You see the title before you see the opening post. The thread title needs to be changed if that's not what the thread is about.



If we're discussing who is actually the BEST guitarist, then best must be something that can be proven, and technique is the only objective part.

If the thread title said "Who's you're fav?" then you'd be well within rights.



Despite me having posted in this thread long before you ever did, I'll overlook that remarkably silly and uninformed statement.

This thread was largely about being objective, which I believe IS pointless because A) Half of you have no clue, more probably, and B) There's no fun to be had there.

However, if we are discussing objectively, then James Iha factually would not be there. If we're no longer discussing technique, then do as you wish.

Ftool? Sort the lisp out.

-AC

You really are a total moron, if the thread was about technical ability then the thread would just be pointless... Everyone knows it's Hendrix... For Christ sake just let a guy post without jumping on his back about it... You must be ***** slapped to the ground in real life... It's the only way of justifying the fact that all of your posts make mountains out of molehills..

All I said was "I quite like James Iha". Now how could you read that as me thinking that Iha was the greatest guitarist of all time? He's not the best, simple as that. I enjoy the music he plays and writes... I don't care about the fact that he can't perform like Brian May or Jimi Hendrix. I also don't care what the thread title says, I generally read through the thread before posting, at least a couple of pages.

I don't care what you have to say anymore, I don't even read half of what you write anymore because the large majority of it is drivel... You think you're right all the time. I used to be fine with it but you're actually a ****. That's all I have to say... I know this is off topic and I know you'll come back and reply to this post with something to protect your ego, you do that... Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Iha's not even my favourite guitarist, it was just a passing comment after listening to a few Pumpkin songs. My favourite guitarist I posted later; hide from X Japan, I doubt you've ever even heard of him, he was an amazing guitarist, far better than Iha.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
This isn't originally intended to be about who you like or don't like, is it? The title is "Who is the best guitarist of all time?", not "Who do you really like?".
-AC
If that's true, I wonder why nobody mentions Segovia (well, he got mentioned once). I'm far from being a fan, but according to The Powers that Be in the guitar world, he's up there, almost reaching the status of Guitar Demigod.

And yet, nobody mentions him. Strange. Maybe musical preferences do play a part in this thread after all ? He's hardly an idol, is long dead and forgotten, and the music he played, is much too boring for the rocking youth of these days.

For the record, he is a bit boring, I only like a few songs of him. But still, he should at least get nominated here. Exactly the same thing can be said about John Williams btw.

For those who care : a little video of Segovia in action. Forget about your musical preferences, it's all about technique, and Segovia has an awesome technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eBnfzngq9Y

Originally posted by Df02
Carlos Santana gets overlooked alot... definately not THE best, but he's up there

I think he's the best.

And yeah, he's overlooked.

Santana is a brilliant guitarist. Dimebag Darrell (RIP) might not be the most popular, but he is certainly one of the best.

Dimebag was better at riffs than he was at solos, which is what people seem to rate him for.

He was brilliant, but he's another guitarist who gets rated higher because he's dead. Hardly anybody mentioned him in said polls before he died.

-AC

Best is still Hendrix. As for personal favorite, definitely Tom Morello

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Dimebag was better at riffs than he was at solos, which is what people seem to rate him for.

He was brilliant, but he's another guitarist who gets rated higher because he's dead. Hardly anybody mentioned him in said polls before he died.

-AC


Sad, but I agree. People rate him as such posthumously. In all honesty, I rated him one of the best even when he was alive, since I am a diehard Pantera fan, and his music was one of the influences that turned me onto metal music when I was a young boy.

Micheal angileo Batio , forgot how u spell it :P

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've known X Japan for a while, Hide is really good on the song Weekend, at least I like the guitar on it, but I'm not fond of them. Don't make assumptions. You may think you're cool because you are a self-proclaimed "J-Rock" fan, but that doesn't mean others don't know more than you. I've listened to Japanese bands for a while.

Secondly, you clearly do read what I type and now you're just having a temper tantrum, sad really.

-AC

I only assumed you hadn't heard of him because most haven't. I don't think I'm cool for liking J-Rock... It's just a genre, I can make as many assumptions as I want to I never said people don't know more than me, I feel you're really clutching at straws now. It's like be giving you a lecture because you spelt hide with a capital H...

I don't even need to read what you type anymore though, all of your posts are the same; "I'm better than you, I know more than you, anything you say is wrong. If what you say is right I'll just ignore it and mock something else about your post." You can never just let things slide, it's really rather pathetic, I'm just passionate about the music I like, call it a temper tantrum if you wish, I only hope it will help you sleep knowing you annoyed someone who you'll never meet.

apart from the obvious candidates...i quite like:

Yngwie Malmsteen
Ulrich Roth

Malmsteen is great if you enjoy bland uninspired shred

i guess i enjoy blandness then.

Mark Knopfler or Jimmy Page

Bass Guitar is Ken Casey.

forgot to mention earlier
BUCKETHEAD!!!!

Neal Schon of Journey.

Seriously, the man's a freakin' beast. He is hands down one of the fastes, most fluid guitar players.

He's also performed with: Hardline, Bad English, Santana, Paul Rodgers, HSAS, and Soul SirkUS.

Check this out:

When he was FOURTEEN years old, he was asked by Carlos Santana to join Santana and Eric Clapton to join Derek and the Dominos.

Sorry, guys. That blows Slash, Brian May, Phil Collen, Kirk Kammet, and so forth out of the damn water, lol.

don't know who's the best, but my favorites are:
Matt Bellamy
Thom Yorke/Jonny Greenwood
Damien Rice

Originally posted by Gideon
Neal Schon of Journey.

Seriously, the man's a freakin' beast. He is hands down one of the fastes, most fluid guitar players.

He's also performed with: Hardline, Bad English, Santana, Paul Rodgers, HSAS, and Soul SirkUS.

Check this out:

When he was FOURTEEN years old, he was asked by Carlos Santana to join Santana and Eric Clapton to join Derek and the Dominos.

Sorry, guys. That blows Slash, Brian May, Phil Collen, Kirk Kammet, and so forth out of the damn water, lol.

So he was a noteable 14 year old guitarist, impressive.

Jimi Hendrix was the untouchable best ever by the time he died, just over mid-twenties. Wrap your head around that.

-AC

Toni Iomi

Eddie Hazel

Have you heard of Stanley Jordan? He's the best tapping player i know.I find his playing kinda boring but it's sometimes fun to watch. Check him out.

I think "noteable" and "impressive" don't begin to describe his talent, but I know how you are, Alpha, so I'll take what I can get.



Hendrix was an innovator and changed the musical world as we know it. I'm arguing that Schon was - again, I must use this irksome word - a technical beast. I'm not comparing the two of them, still, it doesn't detract from Schon's brilliance.

Hendrix is the best.
Jimmy page is somewhere in the top,have him right in back of Hendrix.

Originally posted by Gideon
I think "noteable" and "impressive" don't begin to describe his talent, but I know how you are, Alpha, so I'll take what I can get.



Hendrix was an innovator and changed the musical world as we know it. I'm arguing that Schon was - again, I must use this irksome word - a technical beast. I'm not comparing the two of them, still, it doesn't detract from Schon's brilliance.

I'm not detracting from it, I'm just not overhyping it.

-AC

No, you are actually. Having the kind of ability to be realised and respected by such legends like Santana and Eric Clapton (to such a degree that they both asked him to join their band respective bands, and view hims as a sort of equal really) speaks heavily for how gifted he was.

Did I not just say it was impressive?

I'm not saying Schon isn't technically talented. I found it impressive, especially at such a young age, you don't hear things like that often, but you're forgetting something; It's entirely possible they were shocked at the fact that he possessed that talent at 14. If you put the talent he had at 14 into a 30 year old man, back then, they wouldn't have given him a second look, I'm willing to bet.

Having great talent FOR AN AGE does not translate to great talent overall. Jimi Hendrix was doing things in his early 20s that Clapton and Townshend (Two guitarists revered as the world's best at the time.) were in awe of because he was better than them. Clapton and Santana were just impressed that Schon was good for his age. Go on YouTube, there are untold amounts of videos of early teen shredders who can play things that appear to be amazing, but aren't. It just stands out more cos they're young.

Gideon is rating him highly NOW because he WAS brilliant for his age...at 14, and that's just silly. It's not relevant to now. He's not great now because he was good at 14. It doesn't work like that.

When Maurice Greene is old and grey, you won't say he's still one of the fastest runners on Earth because he was at some point.

-AC

Actually, I'm rating him highly "now" because Neal Schon is still a technical beast, and I can provide dozens and dozens of videos from Youtube to prove it. In fact, I prefer his guitar licks now much better than the '70s and '80s days where Steve Perry (skilled vocalist he may be) put Schon in a creative stranglehold as far as his rock taste is concerned.

Edit: I know for a fact that Sammy Hagar (who is a guitarist himself) says that Neal can play "as good as anybody", Brian May refers to Neal as a "guitar god" and a "guitar extraordinare" on his website when he visited Journey backstage, and Phil Collen from Def Leppard considers Neal to be a "much, much better" guitarist than he is.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Did I not just say it was impressive?

I'm not saying Schon isn't technically talented. I found it impressive, especially at such a young age, you don't hear things like that often, but you're forgetting something; It's entirely possible they were shocked at the fact that he possessed that talent at 14. If you put the talent he had at 14 into a 30 year old man, back then, they wouldn't have given him a second look, I'm willing to bet.

Having great talent FOR AN AGE does not translate to great talent overall. Jimi Hendrix was doing things in his early 20s that Clapton and Townshend (Two guitarists revered as the world's best at the time.) were in awe of because he was better than them. Clapton and Santana were just impressed that Schon was good for his age. Go on YouTube, there are untold amounts of videos of early teen shredders who can play things that appear to be amazing, but aren't. It just stands out more cos they're young.

Dude, you're acting as if all they did was find his skills impressive for just his age. That's not the case, they found his ability universally impressive, given they actually asked him to play with their respective bands.



Actually, it does. How much potential a guitarist has (and going by Gideon's example, his potential was likely on the next level) generally determines their improvement rate. Now given how gifted he was at such a young age, add in the decades of improvement, and it doesn't take a genius to work out how incredible he would be now. And he is, and his current technical ability supports that.



This analogy doesn't make sense. Now I haven't been reading the entire argument, and I'm not going to do so, but I'd assume that Gideon is either referring to Neal Schon in his prime, not an 80 year old Neal Schon that has arthritis. Now if that was the case, your analogy would be correct. But that's not the case, so your analogy fails.

Originally posted by Gideon
Actually, I'm rating him highly "now" because Neal Schon is still a technical beast, and I can provide dozens and dozens of videos from Youtube to prove it. In fact, I prefer his guitar licks now much better than the '70s and '80s days where Steve Perry (skilled vocalist he may be) put Schon in a creative stranglehold as far as his rock taste is concerned.

Yes he's still technically a great player, but that's all I will describe him as, because that's all I see him as. Technically a great player. To me, that's doing him enough justice, because it's what he is.

Originally posted by Gideon
Edit: I know for a fact that Sammy Hagar (who is a guitarist himself) says that Neal can play "as good as anybody", Brian May refers to Neal as a "guitar god" and a "guitar extraordinare" on his website when he visited Journey backstage, and Phil Collen from Def Leppard considers Neal to be a "much, much better" guitarist than he is.

Being a guitarist doesn't mean you can't be wrong when talking about other guitarists. Schon factually cannot play as good as anybody, he can't match Vai, Gilbert, Satriani or Petrucci. He can't match Hendrix, he couldn't match Van Halen (Because one of the noteable aspects of Van Halen's career was that he overshadowed Schon, who was revered in the area of commercial rock at the time.), regardless of what Hagar says. He's a decent guitarist, but there are guitarists better than Hagar who say differently, and they are more credible than him.

Schon was on G3 with Satch and Vai and that is proof enough, if you watch the performances, that he can't play "as good as anybody". Maybe creatively Hagar thinks so...but he can't change fact.

He is a guitar extraordinaire, so Brian May is right. There are levels of praise that can be considered too much, though.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Dude, you're acting as if all they did was find his skills impressive for just his age. That's not the case, they found his ability universally impressive, given they actually asked him to play with their respective bands.

That's you making assumptions, which is also what I was doing. We can only speculate on why they asked, I'm just saying not to rule out the possibility of what I said.

Besides, he was spotted at 15 and didn't feature in Santana until he was 17.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
Actually, it does. How much potential a guitarist has (and going by Gideon's example, his potential was likely on the next level) generally determines their improvement rate. Now given how gifted he was at such a young age, add in the decades of improvement, and it doesn't take a genius to work out how incredible he would be now. And he is, and his current technical ability supports that.

Add in the decades of improvement? That's precisely what I mean. He didn't get better, and hasn't been getting better, every single year since then has he? He, of course, improved, but it's not like every year that passed he had improved beyond anything else.

His current technical ability does not match up to how high he is being rated, you are assuming that because he was that good at 14, he simply must be as good as you calculate, and that's stupid.

Originally posted by Apollo Cloud
This analogy doesn't make sense. Now I haven't been reading the entire argument, and I'm not going to do so, but I'd assume that Gideon is either referring to Neal Schon in his prime, not an 80 year old Neal Schon that has arthritis. Now if that was the case, your analogy would be correct. But that's not the case, so your analogy fails.

It doesn't fail. My point is, you don't rate someone based on what they previously were. Maurice Greene was a fast runner, it doesn't mean he'll continually improve, things decline eventually, as Schon undoubtedly has. He isn't at his prime now, he does not play as well as he once did.

-AC

Actually, Gregg Rollie and Neal played with Santana when he was 14. At 15, he got the simultaneous offers from Clapton and Carlos, and at 17, the album with Santana was released.

As for the rest - Schon hasn't declined at all. Prove that he has and also prove that he can't play as good as those other guitarists. I don't think you understand that there are many people who can play as good as any guitarist. There are three guys at my high school who played the entire "Surfing with the Alien" album at our talent show.

Just because Schon isn't an innovator like Hendrix or revered for his guitar skills (he was in Journey, for crying out loud) doesn't mean that he can't play their songs or play as well as them.

You don't play an instrument, do you?

Originally posted by Gideon
Actually, Gregg Rollie and Neal played with Santana when he was 14. At 15, he got the simultaneous offers from Clapton and Carlos, and at 17, the album with Santana was released.

So he didn't actually contribute anything of value until he was 17.

Originally posted by Gideon
As for the rest - Schon hasn't declined at all. Prove that he has and also prove that he can't play as good as those other guitarists. I don't think you understand that there are many people who can play as good as any guitarist. There are three guys at my high school who played the entire "Surfing with the Alien" album at our talent show.

Again, you're dodging my question. I don't have the burden of proof, you do. You're the one claiming that Schon can play as good as these people, so prove it. I find it hard to believe that three guys at your high school did that, even less inclined to believe they did it with any kind of accuracy.

When I say "declined" I don't mean the man is shit now. He's not as good as he once was, is he? No. Hence decline.

Originally posted by Gideon
Just because Schon isn't an innovator like Hendrix or revered for his guitar skills (he was in Journey, for crying out loud) doesn't mean that he can't play their songs or play as well as them.

I know it doesn't mean that, but the sheer fact that you are suggesting Schon plays as well as Hendrix is something that doesn't even warrant debate. It proves how much you overrate him. Jeff Beck couldn't even cover Hendrix successfully.

You are a biased Neil Schon fan, yet you deny that. Your title is "KMC's Journey Fan." for crying out loud.

Originally posted by Gideon
You don't play an instrument, do you?

What makes you jump to that conclusion? While we're throwing out assumptions, of course.

-AC

And while we're at it, your beloved site ranks Schon at 23rd.

1. Jimi Hendrix.
2. Eric Clapton.
3. Jimmy Page.
4. Jeff Beck.
5. Eddie Van Halen.
6. Stevie Ray Vaughan.
7. Joe Satriani.
8. Ritchie Blackmore.
9. Steve Vai.
10. David Gilmour.

-AC

How do you know that that is the case, Alpha? I can provide you with an example, incidentally, involving Journey. Journey "moved on" without Perry officially in 1997, because he sustained a hip injury while hiking in Hawaii, and didn't get surgery in a fashionable amount of time. He was replaced by Steve Augeri, and Steve Smith (Journey's long-time drummer) was replaced with Deen Castronovo. Yet, the band didn't produce another album 'til 2001. Does that mean that Augeri and Castronovo "didn't contribute anything of value" for four years? No.

It is illogical and rather out-of-place to naturally assume that Neal didn't contribute anything of value because Santana waited three years to have him on the album.



Actually, to be technical, Sammy Hagar is the one who claims that Neal Schon is as skilled as "anybody else", and he has two advantages on the both of us: a.) he is a guitarist and b.) he has played with Neal for years, and is thus more familiar with how Neal plays than either of us (yes, Alpha, that includes you).

Next, I don't know what it is with you and the cynical belief that you naturally don't believe someone when they speak of something that contradicts your opinion, but I'm sorry. This belief only furthers the idea that you don't play the guitar, because you seemingly have no clue that there are indeed people in the world who can play as well as people such as Hendrix or Clapton or Vai, and they are not famous. All it takes is practice. Those guys who played the "Surfing with the Alien" album did quite well, but you don't have to believe that.



First, Alpha, I think it's obvious that my familiarity with Neal Schon and Journey happens to be miles and miles ahead of your own; Schon was constantly held back and restrained in Journey because of Perry and Cain's pop-themed songwriting tastes. He was restrained in Bad English by Jon Waite and Jonathan Cain (again). In Hardline? They opted for the hair-metal/commercial taste (Schon was big on making money), though he was able to "cut loose" in a lot of their songs.

The fact is, in terms of live performances, Schon is miles ahead of his younger days. Perry is now gone, and Cain is more complacent. I've read interviews with Neal where the band admits that they are no longer one of the most famous acts in the world, so they can basically do whatever the hell they feel like. Which is why Neal simply is outstanding live, because it's his show. He is still one of the quickest guitarists around, and can play three-hour concerts with no trouble whatsoever.

So, in conclusion, I (and the band itself) is of the mind that Schon has only improved with age.



That's what I'm saying. If you can play someone's material, then you are as skilled as they are in terms of technical ability. For their Generations/30th year anniversary tour, Neal Schon played Hendrix songs, as well as the National Anthem. When I saw him, he played "Voodoo Child" (sp?).

Schon can cover Hendrix material.



I'm denying that?

I could just as easily say that you're an "anti-Journey" advocate, hence why you constantly dismiss their achievements. I'm sorry, but facts are facts, no matter how badly you'd like to interpret them. Joe Blow down the street, with enough practice, can play any Hendrix song or any Schon song or any Jeff Beck song you can name.



Because, you don't seem to understand that you don't have to be a "revered guitarist" to be a good one. There are people in this world who haven't made albums or who are up-and-coming musicians who can play as well as any Hendrix or any Vai.

You don't have to be Hendrix to play a Hendrix song lmao, and you seem to operate under the delusion that you simply have to be Eddie Van Halen to play an Eddie Van Halen song, or Jimmy Hendrix to play a Jimmy Hendrix song, or whatever. That isn't the case.

Originally posted by Gideon
How do you know that that is the case, Alpha? I can provide you with an example, incidentally, involving Journey. Journey "moved on" without Perry officially in 1997, because he sustained a hip injury while hiking in Hawaii, and didn't get surgery in a fashionable amount of time. He was replaced by Steve Augeri, and Steve Smith (Journey's long-time drummer) was replaced with Deen Castronovo. Yet, the band didn't produce another album 'til 2001. Does that mean that Augeri and Castronovo "didn't contribute anything of value" for four years? No.

It is illogical and rather out-of-place to naturally assume that Neal didn't contribute anything of value because Santana waited three years to have him on the album.

Ok, perhaps "of value" wasn't the right term, I meant noteworthy. Santana III was his first noticeable work.

Originally posted by Gideon
Actually, to be technical, Sammy Hagar is the one who claims that Neal Schon is as skilled as "anybody else", and he has two advantages on the both of us: a.) he is a guitarist and b.) he has played with Neal for years, and is thus more familiar with how Neal plays than either of us (yes, Alpha, that includes you).

You're correct, of course. He knows more about Schon than me, but the fact is, there are guitarists better than Hagar on a technical level (Which isn't actually that hard, the man isn't astounding.) who wouldn't put Schon as high up as you do.

Schon is revered and rightly so, I'm just saying I think you overrate him.

Originally posted by Gideon
Next, I don't know what it is with you and the cynical belief that you naturally don't believe someone when they speak of something that contradicts your opinion, but I'm sorry. This belief only furthers the idea that you don't play the guitar, because you seemingly have no clue that there are indeed people in the world who can play as well as people such as Hendrix or Clapton or Vai, and they are not famous. All it takes is practice. Those guys who played the "Surfing with the Alien" album did quite well, but you don't have to believe that.

Because I don't believe baseless claims that I find unbelievable. If you had said "I did a badass cover of Smells like Teen Spirit." I'd have no problems believing you.

I know there are people in the world who can play difficult things. There are guitar magazine writers who perform Eddie Van Halen things on free giveaway CDs, the point is, they either play it in a way that lacks something, or the technique isn't exact. Eruption isn't impossible, but you won't ever hear it played as flawlessly by anyone besides Van Halen.

There are technically better guitarists than Hendrix, he was the best in more important ways, but regardless, I don't take it as face value that some high school kids played Surfing With the Alien.

Originally posted by Gideon
First, Alpha, I think it's obvious that my familiarity with Neal Schon and Journey happens to be miles and miles ahead of your own; Schon was constantly held back and restrained in Journey because of Perry and Cain's pop-themed songwriting tastes. He was restrained in Bad English by Jon Waite and Jonathan Cain (again). In Hardline? They opted for the hair-metal/commercial taste (Schon was big on making money), though he was able to "cut loose" in a lot of their songs.

I can't act like you don't have more of a Journey knowledge than me on the whole, but I know enough of them and Schon to comment, I hope that you would at least understand I'm not the kind of idiot to comment on a band if I didn't know about them.

Originally posted by Gideon
The fact is, in terms of live performances, Schon is miles ahead of his younger days. Perry is now gone, and Cain is more complacent. I've read interviews with Neal where the band admits that they are no longer one of the most famous acts in the world, so they can basically do whatever the hell they feel like. Which is why Neal simply is outstanding live, because it's his show. He is still one of the quickest guitarists around, and can play three-hour concerts with no trouble whatsoever.

Quick doesn't mean much. Again, I'm not denying that Schon is technically a great guitarist, which seems to be your belief.

Originally posted by Gideon
So, in conclusion, I (and the band itself) is of the mind that Schon has only improved with age.

But he won't continuing improving with age, age DOES slow you down. He may be a better guitarist overall, but I'm willing to bet there are things he can't do now that he could do when he was younger.

Originally posted by Gideon
That's what I'm saying. If you can play someone's material, then you are as skilled as they are in terms of technical ability. For their Generations/30th year anniversary tour, Neal Schon played Hendrix songs, as well as the National Anthem. When I saw him, he played "Voodoo Child" (sp?).

There are guitarists that can play Hendrix, of course. I wasn't aware that was what you meant. I just meant it doesn't make them as GOOD.

Originally posted by Gideon
Schon can cover Hendrix material.

Whether he covers it well is another story, and my point.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm denying that?

I could just as easily say that you're an "anti-Journey" advocate, hence why you constantly dismiss their achievements. I'm sorry, but facts are facts, no matter how badly you'd like to interpret them. Joe Blow down the street, with enough practice, can play any Hendrix song or any Schon song or any Jeff Beck song you can name.

I'm not an anti-Journey advocate at ALL. I'm not dismissing their achievements, I just realise when and where they do and do not matter. Kiss are the biggest selling gold album band ever, is that big? Yeah. Matter? No.

Originally posted by Gideon
Because, you don't seem to understand that you don't have to be a "revered guitarist" to be a good one. There are people in this world who haven't made albums or who are up-and-coming musicians who can play as well as any Hendrix or any Vai.

You cannot factually say that there are people as good as Vai out there. I can't say there isn't, but I wouldn't say either. It's too presumptuous either way.

My whole point was that Schon being able to LITERALLY play Hendrix is impressive, but successfully? That's a different matter. We got confused.

Originally posted by Gideon
You don't have to be Hendrix to play a Hendrix song lmao, and you seem to operate under the delusion that you simply have to be Eddie Van Halen to play an Eddie Van Halen song, or Jimmy Hendrix to play a Jimmy Hendrix song, or whatever. That isn't the case.

Of course you don't, it appears we got crossed wires.

Of course there are people who play Hendrix or Van Halen LITERALLY, but nobody can play Voodoo Child like Hendrix can, or Eruption like Halen. All the best guitarists leave their mark so that it echoes through the ages.

Add to the fact that Van Halen and Hendrix innovated in ways that Schon did not (Not that it takes away from him.) and you have even less chance of their sound being replicated. Especially Van Halen who used to boil his strings in water or some shit.

Just to summarise, as we got a little confused. I'm not saying Schon can't play certain songs LITERALLY, I'm talking more about execution and the end product.

-AC

My point is this: on a "technical" level, any decent guitarist can play a Jimmy Hendrix song, a Steve Vai song, or a Neal Schon song. They may not be famous for it and they might not make a career off of it, but it is a common fact. Neal Schon is a huge Jeff Beck fan, and admitted on a TV interview (supporting Journey's 1986 'Raised on Radio' album) that, as a teenager, he learned to play a vast majority of Beck's "arsenal" of music simply by listening to it.

You must not play the guitar, nor have you ever actually "seen" a decent guitarist cover someone else's songs. I have seen countless of people - both at my school and various clubs across my state (they actually have decent guitarists in Kentucky, lol, go figure) cover Cream, Santana, Journey, Van Halen, Hendrix, and Steve Vai on multiple occasions, and cover it extremely well. Once you learn how to play, you can replicate the exact sounds and patterns of the original guitarist. If you pay attention to detail, you can make it sound identical. This is a fact of life, and any guy who is skilled with a guitar can do it. If they can replicate the same feats, then on a technical level (perhaps not on an innovative level) they are no less skilled than the musician who played the song the first time.

But it's clear that I'm not going to change your opinion, and you're not going to change mine. Best just to agree to disagree.

Edit: And, just to clarify - as usual - I am debating on technical level. Not innovation. Not noteriety. Sheer "playing" ability. His fretwork. Neal Schon is no less (nor is any real guitarist) than a Hendrix or a Van Halen. Now, if you wish to compare the difficulty or noteriety of the music they played - insofar as Journey solos compared to Van Halen solos - then you have an argument. But, as I've said before, that doesn't detract from Schon on any level. The man, truly is, one of the greats. You can claim that I am overrating him, but as someone who has seen Schon perform three times live (and countless times on Youtube), I can safely say that. Several friends of mine who play the guitar consider him to be an extraordinary and uncommon musician. The best? Hardly. But certainly beyond "above average".

Originally posted by Gideon
My point is this: on a "technical" level, any decent guitarist can play a Jimmy Hendrix song, a Steve Vai song, or a Neal Schon song. They may not be famous for it and they might not make a career off of it, but it is a common fact. Neal Schon is a huge Jeff Beck fan, and admitted on a TV interview (supporting Journey's 1986 'Raised on Radio' album) that, as a teenager, he learned to play a vast majority of Beck's "arsenal" of music simply by listening to it.

A) "Jimi", and yes, that kind of mistake does matter.

B) You're wrong there. It takes more than a "decent" guitarist to play stuff like Eugene's Trick Bag or the All Along the Watchtower solo. Even the best guitarists in the world can't play the latter with a great effect as Hendrix, and you won't find many who can even pull off Eugene's Trick Bag, let alone do it well.

I'm not saying that songs by these artists are untouchable and impossible to learn, but you're not giving them the proper respect.

Originally posted by Gideon
You must not play the guitar, nor have you ever actually "seen" a decent guitarist cover someone else's songs. I have seen countless of people - both at my school and various clubs across my state (they actually have decent guitarists in Kentucky, lol, go figure) cover Cream, Santana, Journey, Van Halen, Hendrix, and Steve Vai on multiple occasions, and cover it extremely well. Once you learn how to play, you can replicate the exact sounds and patterns of the original guitarist. If you pay attention to detail, you can make it sound identical. This is a fact of life, and any guy who is skilled with a guitar can do it. If they can replicate the same feats, then on a technical level (perhaps not on an innovative level) they are no less skilled than the musician who played the song the first time.

No, I just respect that not any Joe Nobody can play guitar decently and crack out a Steve Vai lick. No "decent" guitarist could play Midnight by Joe Satriani, hell, there probably aren't many exceptional guitarists that could. There is a reason these people are hailed as they are, Gideon. It's not because they are easy to learn.

Nobody has ever replicated Jimi Hendrix exactly, and you're out of your mind for saying so. Jeff Beck couldn't even do it. There is something about the way he played and what he played that stops people from pulling it off exactly, that's precisely why he's as revered as he is, because he is the best. If everybody could do the same, he wouldn't be, would he? Eddie Van Halen's tone is specific to him because nobody sets up their guitars the way he does. Who boils their strings and then leaves them in the Sun? Nobody besides Van Halen, or if they do, they got it from him.

Learning an existing song is one thing, creating it is another. That's why Hendrix, Vai, Satch, Gilbert etc are above Schon. He may very well have the ability to play some of their stuff, but he couldn't write it, and he certainly couldn't play all of it.

Have you ever had a good listen to Steve Vai, Paul Gilbert or Joe Satriani? I've heard enough of Schon to speak about him, but it doesn't seem like you can say the same of people that are better than him. These guitarists are more revered than Schon for technique, it doesn't make Schon any less of a guitarist to say "He's not as good technically as Paul Gilbert.". There are maybe two who are.

Originally posted by Gideon
But it's clear that I'm not going to change your opinion, and you're not going to change mine. Best just to agree to disagree.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Gideon
Edit: And, just to clarify - as usual - I am debating on technical level. Not innovation. Not noteriety. Sheer "playing" ability. His fretwork. Neal Schon is no less (nor is any real guitarist) than a Hendrix or a Van Halen. Now, if you wish to compare the difficulty or noteriety of the music they played - insofar as Journey solos compared to Van Halen solos - then you have an argument. But, as I've said before, that doesn't detract from Schon on any level. The man, truly is, one of the greats. You can claim that I am overrating him, but as someone who has seen Schon perform three times live (and countless times on Youtube), I can safely say that. Several friends of mine who play the guitar consider him to be an extraordinary and uncommon musician. The best? Hardly. But certainly beyond "above average".

Of course he's beyond average, I'm simply saying that being able to play some stuff by the best, technique-wise, doesn't make you the best technique-wise. It just makes you very able on a guitar.

Innovation is part of technique.

-AC

Joe Satriani.

Randy Rhodes.

Jimi hendrix.

Jimmy Page