If god exists,and if he is so mighty and great...

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debbie264
Don't get me wrong,I am a firm believer in god,but if he's so mighty and great,and if he is so fair and equal and loves everybody the same,no matter what,how come innocent blood is always shed?How come criminials get away with gruesome crime??Why is it that during war,it is always the children and helpless who always end up suffering?Is there any logical answer to this question or is it something we will never understand?

SlipknoT
There is no go, and there is a whole forum devoted to this

Jackie Malfoy
Where slipknot I did not see any?JM

debbiejo
I said this once before, but ok, I'll say it again.

I heard this and it made since to me. What do you think?

When there was war in Heaven, Lucifer was casted out with 1/3 of the angels. Now God could of just destroyed Lucifer and those angels, but how would the other 2/3 of the angels feel about that..Thinking "Don't go against God because He will just destroy you." They would then just serve him out of fear of being destroyed themselves. God didn't want them to serve him out of fear, so to show the 2/3 of the angels how wise his words were in the way he ran things, so to say, he let them see for themselves what happens when you disobey what he says is wise. Seeing what that sin does and is doing here and now, they watch...

Now they can see for themselves...God did say though that He will distroy Satan and the evil angels and that they will be "forever, no more."

WindDancer
I said once and I'll say it again. Don't blame God, the devil, or something else that is mythological or spiritual for the wickedness and evil of human beings. Any war or any crime is the cause of human stupidity. As for disasters that happen in our world is part of nature that these things happen. Our planet keeps changing and so will be the weather. Those things we can't do nothing about them. They just happen.

alic88
God has made life a challenge for all of us, things arent meant to be fair and just, thats the test in life, wheather u stick to your belief in God even when things are going wrong for u. its how life is

thats just my belief i dont wanna fight over it

leonheartmm
to me god does not exist, many bad things happen in the world, but u know what those things are painful but if u had faith and believed in god but then for some undeniable logic, u had to admit that there is no god, well thats one of the most painful things that u could feal so dont think too much about it and if u actually care, well try and do sumthing about all the wrongs in the world.

XIA
Thats why Im a satanist, if god is so powerful then why does he let this happen? Because he likes to see us suffer

AragonIsKing
God is testing our faiths and the hearts of others. someone said in the beginning of this Forum: "why is it that only the children and helpless suffer during war times?"
My answer: Because they are the most innocent. They are beaten here on Earth and deserve to leave. Death, for them, is a gift from god so that they may join him and live happily in heaven.

AragonIsKing
Again: another ? I've been hearing about is the Tsunami. "Why would god kill all of those INNOCENT people?"
My answer: Did you know that China and the asian population is dangerously overpopulated and the goverment's logic to solve that problem is this: All asian women are to only give birth to one child and all other children are to die.

AragonIsKing
That is why you see on TV so many chinese and asian poor children up for adoption. That is where the children go when the mothers have to give them up. And, oh yeah, the goverment also prefers male children over female and if a woman were to have a female, most likely her daughter would be forced into prostitution. Absolutly Sickening!

AragonIsKing
To say that the islands hit by the Tsunami were innocent is naiieve. They, in the eyes of God, are evil and had to be dealt with. The Tsunami victims, mostly "children and helpless" that died were given a better life in heaven were they could escape the prostitution and hate of their homeland.

AragonIsKing
God does not want to see us suffer! We put ourselves through misery.

finti
first what is wrong with puttin it all into one post.

ehh the tsunami didnt affect china, and the chinese government says that chinese families just get support (social security, medical aid and so on) for one child, other children born is the responsibility of the family and the family alone.

it aint the government that prefer male children it is the culture, and you basically say that all female of asia is more or less prostitutes

this is pure ignorance and stupidity, this comes from pompous people with their head far up their own ass

Adam_PoE
Most of the tsunami survivors are "children and the helpless". Does this mean that God killed the wrong people?

finti
ha ha ha,........good question Adam

FeceMan
No? I didn't read any of Aragon's posts--the quadruple post crap made me ignore them--so I don't really know what this is talking about.

midnite127
God has a strange sense of humor...that's my take on things erm

WindDancer
Who are you to say they were Evil???? That's outrageous! I would like to believe the victims souls are in heaven or some better place. But I really don't know if they are or aren't. I can't generalize nor divide the good from the bad. Forces of Nature took the lives of those people. And if God exists whatever his/her will might be is still something that we as humans feel is wrong and very tragic. If you want to go all philosophical in the matter then we can assume God gave everyone free will including Nature itself. So we can't blame a Volcano for exploding and killing people. Nature is just following it's rules just like we follow our own set of rules.

lil bitchiness
Its good you question your religion, no matter what that is.

Blind believing in something clouds judgment - everything needs to be questionned and examened, and the existance of God argument is really pointless becuse noone can prove he/she/it exists and noone can prove it that he/she/t doesnt.

debbiejo
We should all question our religion and get to the truth, not what we were taught, but the truth is. We may not be popular, but we'll be better for it.

finti
and the result of that truth seeking may be the end of your religion

debbiejo
Isn't that scary! That's a chance we all have to take.

debbiejo
Isn't that scary! That's a chance we all have to take.

debbiejo
Isn't that scary! That's a chance we all have to take.

finti
guess we got your point first time around debb roll eyes (sarcastic)

debbiejo
WOW...how did that happen???

DenKi
THERE IS NO GOD.........................................................

Imperial_Samura
Quiet possible is that. Kind of makes is sad though. No God, ergo human concepts of "evil" are a natural thing, and there is no justice. Or God, evil is a thing you must live with because its a test or some such thing, and there is justice, but really it doesn't seem that great compared to all the God sanctioned evil... Bah to all of that.

And it isn't a good thing to assume something like the Tsunami in Asia is somehow divine punishment (to that series of posts) I mean, the logic is flawed - the Governments are "evil" with the way they conduct their governing, so to set it right the powerless victims are killed?

lil bitchiness
Prove it.

finti
its not the nonbelivers that has to proove that an inviceble all knowing god doesnt exist, it is the believrs that has to prove that god do exist.

All I can say is there is no god and if you wanna prove me wrong then I need proof of gods existence, hard facted evidence.

clickclick
Its not as if you are using hard evidence either. You owe proof as much as the opposition does.

lil bitchiness
No, how does that logic work?

You can SAY it exists - well believer SAYS it doesnt.

In order for you to SAY it doesnt exist you need to give a proof of WHY it doesnt, just as believer has to give poof of why it does.

Its a pointless argument - you can BELIEVE he doesnt exist - thats not a proof. Just like believeing he does isnt either.

debbiejo
finti...if I can question my believe, why can't you? You're asking me to step into your world without much proof.

By the way..change your picture back to that head with hair thing...honestly, I really liked it! I was easier to visualize you that way. yes

finti
Actually I dont need to give proof of the none existence of an invicible supreme being, all I have to do is to say that god doesnt exist, then it is up to those who believe in him to prove his existence. Further more if those who belive in him says that god exist then it is up to them to prove his existence.
Still hard for you to comprehend? well I put it simple: Show me god then i believe in god, if you cant show me proof of gods existence then theres the proof your need that god doesnt exist.


I never asked you to step into my world, all I say is that I dont need to proove that god doesnt exist, if you had to prove it that means you are in doubt whether god is real or not, I have no doubt about that particulare question at all.

it is not a pointless argument, I can say there is no god and to prove me wrong someone has to show me god, as long as they cant my argument stands and doesnt need to be proven. You use your faith to determine that there is a god, I use logic to say that god does not exist.

finti
both pictures are of album covers the one I use now fits more to the situation of the discussion we have here, It is Black Sabbaths third album and it is called MASTER OF REALITY, now you can figure out why I choose this as a picture smart smart beer

debbiejo
The other picture just doesnt something for me. big grin

Can you believe that their could be some consciousness out there?

Reborn Again
It's because the weak and febal that get crushed under the strong and powerful. "Survival of the fittest," as Darwin said.

Adam_PoE
According to logic, one cannot prove a negation. Therefore, the burden of proof is on the individual making a positive claim to provide sufficient material evidence to support it.

FeceMan
Bottom line: you can't prove that God doesn't exist, nor can you prove He does.

Unless you are Homer Simpson after a crayon has been removed from your brain.

Adam_PoE
A negation cannot be proven. If a phenomena is non-existent, there would be no evidence of its existence, let alone its non-existence; it simply would not be. Therefore, the fact that a one cannot prove that God does not exist does not invalidate the argument that God does not exist in the same way that the inability to prove that God exists would invalidate the argument that God does exist.

finti
again dont need to prove the non existence, the burden of proving lies uppon those who believes in a god

FeceMan
Doesn't matter. If there were to be some miracle healing, a Christian would attribute it to God. An atheist would attribute it to science. Ambiguous evidence + opposing viewpoints = evidence for both of them.

finti
mirale healing? sure aint a thing for atheists.

Again the existence of a diety aint for the non belivers to prove the opposite

FeceMan
Exactly what I'm talking about. See signature for more details.

finti
yeah cause that cleared it all up roll eyes (sarcastic)

Misty Girl
Originally posted by FeceMan
An atheist would attribute it to science.

Not all atheists believe in science.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Misty Girl
Not all atheists believe in science.
Then what do they believe? (Not being sarcastic here.)

finti
nothing

debbiejo
And so as a man thinkith, so he is. wink

Misty Girl
There are all kinds of Atheists - some accept science, some don't. Some are absolute sceptics, some are Idealists, etc. But I agree with finti, a real atheist believes in nothing. I however, believe in a God - I don't believe in God actually, but know that God exists, because God is existence - he is what we see around us.

finti
then I am truly great

Misty Girl
Yes, everything is truly great.

finti
nah just me

peterKSL
"God does not exist if God didn't create nature or God isn't nature himself..."

I'm a Christian, and so I made this up..^

finti
yeah christians have a history of making things up

peterKSL
It's humans...... bla bla bla...

debbiejo
Don't worry PeterKSL...finti isn't human yet...his understanding has not evolved that far...

Just talk slowly. laughing out loud

peterKSL
laughing out loud

finti
kind of says a bit about you all since this none human participate in discussions with you then

debbiejo
yes

2864212
just to clear this up i am an aggnostic i beleive there mite be a god but there is no prof.
my theroy if god is perfict then he is a failer at failing that would mean he is not perfict. am i right?

2864212
if you were to ask god to create a bulder he himself could not lift, an then ask him to lift it. the theroy of god would be destroyed.
because if he lifted it he lied when he made it,
and if he does not lift it he is not perfict. lol just a theroy

p.s. am i right

finti
whats to clear up ?...........rsa

KharmaDog
Originally posted by 2864212
if you were to ask god to create a bulder he himself could not lift, an then ask him to lift it. the theroy of god would be destroyed.
because if he lifted it he lied when he made it,
and if he does not lift it he is not perfict. lol just a theroy

p.s. am i right

that is one of the oldest questions in the book philo, but your atrocious grammar and spelling kinda messed it up. Just so you know, it is usually asked like this:

Is God so all-powerful that he can make a rock that he himself cannot lift?

4life
God is unfathomable - we cannot talk about God and probabilities or hypothetical situations.

debbiejo
I agree to even discuss "God" is to limit ones own understanding, because you don't have the capacity to even imagine it.

finti
speak for yourself cool

FeceMan
Philo, go away.

debbiejo
Originally posted by finti
speak for yourself cool


finti, your mom called,... she said to come home and take your speach theapy so you can keep up with the other kids..

debbiejo
Originally posted by FeceMan
Philo, go away.

Let's not get paranoid....you can't go around calling everyone philo..

You're gonna scare people away.....

they won't know what a philo is...and think You're swearing at them or something.

finti
I wish she would, but unfortunatly my moms dead


he can when actually philo is socking

Traitor
I agree that god is unfathomable.

finti
of course you agree, you wrote it

Traitor
What the f*uck is your problem? I wrote what?

finti
you too obvious

Traitor
Obviously what?

finti
for me too know and you to think about, or philosophize if you prefer

Traitor
You're talking in senseless circles. What is your point?

finti
not my fault you cant comprehend it, cause it is fairly simple.

Traitor
I give up.

finti
debb if you dont get pms you have to enable the option to allow pms sent to you in the edit options section

SaTsuJiN
Originally posted by debbie264
Don't get me wrong,I am a firm believer in god,but if he's so mighty and great,and if he is so fair and equal and loves everybody the same,no matter what,how come innocent blood is always shed?How come criminials get away with gruesome crime??Why is it that during war,it is always the children and helpless who always end up suffering?Is there any logical answer to this question or is it something we will never understand? Well.. it is not this life that matters, when those people do those things. they merely get away with them in this life, but their soul is supposed to be at risk (the eternal life that is promised may not come to these people, should they cease to ask for forgiveness). However due to the length of time that has passed since the biblical days, such beliefs have been swayed by much questioning and doubt. So really it all comes down to how you feel on such a topic

finti
I whish I had faith, if not for me alt least for my daughter, maybe she get it right

debbiejo
You're her dad. She loves you. smile

KPrince
Originally posted by debbiejo
I said this once before, but ok, I'll say it again.

I heard this and it made since to me. What do you think?

When there was war in Heaven, Lucifer was casted out with 1/3 of the angels. Now God could of just destroyed Lucifer and those angels, but how would the other 2/3 of the angels feel about that..Thinking "Don't go against God because He will just destroy you." They would then just serve him out of fear of being destroyed themselves. God didn't want them to serve him out of fear, so to show the 2/3 of the angels how wise his words were in the way he ran things, so to say, he let them see for themselves what happens when you disobey what he says is wise. Seeing what that sin does and is doing here and now, they watch...

Now they can see for themselves...God did say though that He will distroy Satan and the evil angels and that they will be "forever, no more."

I agree.

K1ll3r
Originally posted by Neo_Communist
Thats why Im a satanist, if god is so powerful then why does he let this happen? Because he likes to see us suffer

He lets it happen because people abandoned God if they trusted God and obeyed and done what he said this wouldn't have happened, so its all humans fault. Satan HATES all humans because he wanted to help create earth but God didn't let him so he rebelled. and then read debbiejos post.

_Sanctuary_
When something goes right we don't think of god for a second, but something goes wrong and it is god's fault...

Shakyamunison
Everything is God.

AOR
Originally posted by finti
I whish I had faith, if not for me alt least for my daughter, maybe she get it right

So God has heard....

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AOR
So God has heard....

How do you come to that?

The idea behind what you say is, God is outside of us. God is not outside of us; we are part of God. To say that God has heard is to say that God, in some cases, cannot hear.

Legend Of Chibi
Originally posted by debbie264
Don't get me wrong,I am a firm believer in god,but if he's so mighty and great,and if he is so fair and equal and loves everybody the same,no matter what,how come innocent blood is always shed?How come criminials get away with gruesome crime??Why is it that during war,it is always the children and helpless who always end up suffering?Is there any logical answer to this question or is it something we will never understand?
He has given the world a choice and quite obviously the criminals pushed that choice aside, so the crime shall not be blamed on god but the crime commiter itself. Let's put it like this, if prime minister Tony Blair of britain has so much power over the country, why doesn't he prevent crime from happening himself?

RedAlertv2
Dont be so stupid. I think even you know full well no one can stop crime.

Legend Of Chibi
Originally posted by RedAlertv2
Dont be so stupid. I think even you know full well no one can stop crime.

Explanation:

God has given mankind a warning.
Tony Blair has given Britain rules.

Atheists has pushed this warning aside.
Criminals have pushed these rules aside.

God sends people to prevent atheism.
Tony blair sends police to prevent crime.

God has given you a choice, if you are going to commit a crime such as murder you do so, but you'll be punished severly for it in hell.

PS: I think u'll find many forms of crime can be prevented.

Kella
Originally posted by debbie264
Don't get me wrong,I am a firm believer in god,but if he's so mighty and great,and if he is so fair and equal and loves everybody the same,no matter what,how come innocent blood is always shed?How come criminials get away with gruesome crime??Why is it that during war,it is always the children and helpless who always end up suffering?Is there any logical answer to this question or is it something we will never understand?

In my religion there is a part of scripture. I cannot recall where it is, but it was a powerful verse that explained this question better than I've ever heard.

*The blood of the innocent will stand as a witness against the crimes of man in the last day.*

That's not the direct quote, but that's pretty much the way it was said. my wording may be a bit more modern than in the scripture. But that was the jist of it.

Basically, the innocent must sometimes die to truly condemn the wicked. It's harsh, I know, but it is how it must play out. I'm sure you've heard the saying, "The Meek shall inherit the earth" ? Well, I believe that's because thier witness, their blood will rid the world of the wicked and corrupt. God wants us all to return to Him, we're all his children...no matter our color or rank in life. He loves us all. He is our Eternal Father. However, as some children tend to rebel against thier parents, so too do we. And some of us will never return. I can't believe that God wants this, but it is the law in heaven that only the worthy may enter. That's where Christ comes in. He's the mediator for us. He paid the price of sin that those of us that accept His sacrifice may partake of His mercy and return home to our Eternal Family. Don't fear for the innocent that die...they are the ones that will be in better care than those of us that remain here on the Earth.

finti
or as we said in Norway in ancient days , no one is innocent so the blood loss is just a spill of a life ending

Kella
children are innocent...believe it or not.

finti
depends on how you view things, personally I agree, but according to christian logic they aint

Wonderer
We are innocent, but also ignorant.

jlee17xoxo412
Originally posted by debbie264
Don't get me wrong,I am a firm believer in god,but if he's so mighty and great,and if he is so fair and equal and loves everybody the same,no matter what,how come innocent blood is always shed?How come criminials get away with gruesome crime??Why is it that during war,it is always the children and helpless who always end up suffering?Is there any logical answer to this question or is it something we will never understand?


i had the same question a while back but someone told me that just because some one suffers doesn't mean that God doesn't love you, or he can't stop bad things from happing to you. Think of it this way, Jesus suffered ten times worse then alot of people when he was beaten and died on the cross. If he suffed on earth then that means we all have to suffer through something whether it's phisical, emotional or mental pain.
In away, God just does that to test our faith;
And plus the bad things are also the Devils work.
Thats why you have to stay free from temtation

debbiejo
And I've heard the logic that god as portrayed in scripture takes people before their time because he's doing them a favor knowing they will leave the faith...honestly......But in doing so, doesn't that take out free will?.....And what about predestination?

sidar
you know what the problem is with god and humans?
he doenst cares about us to god we are the game SIMS he just watches us even knowing what is happening in the future , and on the last day god will unplug his pentium 100 and say hello ppl ill pick some random ppl and send them to a nother dimension one is called heaven the other is called hell thnx for stopping by!!

comeon ppl......give god a rest the reason innocents are die-ing is becozz of us the humans the beings who cant think for them self XD and how mighty god is he would not interfear. why you ask? cozz he thinks its not worth it we humans are all selfish no matter what we say, do or think its all about our selfs

atleast this i how i see it

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sidar
you know what the problem is with god and humans?
he doenst cares about us to god we are the game SIMS he just watches us even knowing what is happening in the future , and on the last day god will unplug his pentium 100 and say hello ppl ill pick some random ppl and send them to a nother dimension one is called heaven the other is called hell thnx for stopping by!!

comeon ppl......give god a rest the reason innocents are die-ing is becozz of us the humans the beings who cant think for them self XD and how mighty god is he would not interfear. why you ask? cozz he thinks its not worth it we humans are all selfish no matter what we say, do or think its all about our selfs

atleast this i how i see it


So would reincarnation be just rebooting the computer?

There is another way to look at it. We are the manifestation of the universe, and the universe is alive. The universe + everything that has been and will be and even those things that are not are what I call God. So there is no out side of world we live in.

Scoobless
Originally posted by AragonIsKing
To say that the islands hit by the Tsunami were innocent is naiieve. They, in the eyes of God, are evil and had to be dealt with.


this is the type of ignorant bulls**t that kept the dark ages going for so long

ffs

Storm
Religious extremists waste no time declaring natural disasters to be god' s punishment. God is not a terrorist.

debbiejo
True, If god was a terrorist, god wouldn't be any better than mythology gods then.....Hmmmmm?

spencerspider
there is no peace in the world until Jesus comes back, that is clearly stated in the Bible. God could just stop all the criminals and kill them or whatever, but he wants us to learn from mistakes, stay strong in Him and overcome all the evil things

debbiejo
Originally posted by spencerspider
there is no peace in the world until Jesus comes back, that is clearly stated in the Bible. God could just stop all the criminals and kill them or whatever, but he wants us to learn from mistakes, stay strong in Him and overcome all the evil things If the god of the Bible is the true god, then why not stop all the misery now....You know why, It's copied from older myths..

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

There is some kind of intelligent power, but not the one mentioned in the Bible that has been tampered with....you might as well call Jesus RA, Mithra, Osiris...etc....all same miracles, and gods son to save the world.

spencerspider
lol did Ra, Mithra, or even Buddha die and come back to life, no that is what seperates Jesus(God) from all the other fake gods, he defeated death. God will come back. No one knows when but He will.

debbiejo
Yeah, and Mithra too......BTW hope you have a merry Mithra day it is Dec 25th.

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