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Who wins with wolverine having no claws or adimantuim skeleton vs batman with no belt

both men know virtualy every martial art so it comes down to three things.

1.experince
2.the degree of skill
3.and a bit of luck,since it can play a part in any fight.

of course speed and strength etc also come into play.
I could get realy serious about this and say the one who is a better striker and grappler will win but that makes this fight too realistic.

I say logans got more experience but thats about it.
This goes either way depending on the circumstances

i'm assuming logan still has his healing factor

assuming he still has his healing factor I still give him victory. If he does not I call it dead draw.

In my opinion, Logan would be beaten...
My reasons are....
1) Logan is a hard ass, cocky, arrogant, he'll prob. look at Batman and laugh and underestimate him.
2) Batman is a better martial artist. Wolverine isn't that far off, but he's not on Batman's level. Batman is on Capt. America's level, and Capt. would hand Wolv. his ass.
3) Also depends on whether they're fighting at night or in the day. If it's at night then even more so the fight belongs to Batman.
4) Batman is stronger, faster, and smarter than wolvie, which obviously contributes to a fight.....

My 2 Cents...
- Matt

Logan would win just because of his healing factor, and Bruce can't get past that without his gadgets.

"1) Logan is a hard ass, cocky, arrogant, he'll prob. look at Batman and laugh and underestimate him."

what?!?!?! do you even read wolverine comic my friend?

"3) Also depends on whether they're fighting at night or in the day. If it's at night then even more so the fight belongs to Batman."

assuming that logan still has his heightened senses I'm afraid not.

"4) Batman is stronger, faster, and smarter than wolvie, which obviously contributes to a fight....."

once again you are wrong, Wolverine slightly above peak human levels, batmans at the peakest of peak human levels,,,,,,where does the advantage go? hmmmmmm oh yeah this ones a toughy,,,,oh wait no it's not. LOGAN!
Bruce does have the brains in this battle though,,,can't take everything away from him,,,,he's DA MAN!

After realizing he's no match for Logan in hand to hand combat, he'd likely find alternative means of defeating him.

bruce is a better fighter...

logan has the healing and the advanced senses though and a slight strength advantage...

bruce could take him i think... not sure...

and yes, logan is:

since when? truely?

i think logan takes it....fighting wise....batman has a little more skills....but logan has his healing factor....the reason why some gets beat in a fight is becaus ethey get hurt so bad that they can't continue....but this wont happen to logan...cos he's always ehaing....so bruises, broken arms, cracks ribs....they wont stop him...cos they'd heal thus, whilst bats is a good fighter...her would eventually tire, whereas logans' healing would sustain him for much longer allowinf him to be at his peak strnegth and physic throughout the fight......so yeeh;..i give it to logan eventually...

and seriously logan being arrogant? pffft I mean sure if he's fighting a couple of street thugs, why wouldn't he be arrogant. But against a good fighter,,,,,after the first blow with batman, wolverine will know he'sin for a serious fight and then your arrogant theory just goes out the window. He may talk some trash, but that doesn't mean he takes his fights any less seriously.

i have tons of x-men comics...

logan is always the one running in like a maniac regardless of the danger...

he knows that no matter how f*cked up he gets his healing factor will compensate...

and we did say BEFORE the fight he'd be arrogant...

ahh yees....healing factor....that i think is the main reason for his victory

James Howlett, the mutant known as Wolverine was born into privilege Alberta Canada, in the late 19th century like in the 1880's. That's over a hundred years of experience.

Here are Logan's stats:

Height:5 ft. 3 in.
Weight: (without adamantium skeleton) 200 lbs., (with adamantium skeleton) 300 lbs.
Eyes: Blue
Hair: Black

Strength Level: While Wolverine may be of an advanced age, he possesses the normal human strength of a man in his prime with his height and build who engages in intensive regular exercise. While possessing the adamantium skeleton, Wolverine's strength was increased to the human maximum, making him capable of lifting (pressing) 800 lbs.

Known Superhuman Powers: Wolverine is a mutant with a number of enhancements to his physiology. Wolverine possesses heightened senses, making him capable of seeing things at a maximum distance greater than that of a normal human. His hearing is enhanced in a similar manner, and he is able to recognize people and objects by scent, even if that person or object is hidden. Logan can use these enhanced senses to track anyone, with an impressive degree of success.

He possesses retractable bone claws that are housed in his forearms, they are part of his skeleton system. At will Wolverine can release these claws through his skin between the knuckles on each hand. The skin between the knuckles tears and bleeds, but bleeding is quickly halted by his healing factor. The claws are naturally sharp and tougher than that of normal human bone structure. This allows Wolverine to be able to cut through most types of flesh and natural materials. (Note: While Wolverine possessed his adamantium skeleton, his claws were able to cut through almost any material without any fear of damage to the claws.)

Lastly, Wolverine possesses an accelerated healing factor based on his physiology. While most normal humans heal injuries over a long period of time, Wolverine's healing factor speeds up that natural process. Wolverine's natural healing has been advanced to the point where he can heal extensive injuries (such as broken limbs) in a matter of hours to days. This factor gives him a higher resistance to poisons and toxins, and he can recover from almost any injury. The more extensive the injury, the longer the healing time will be.

Wolverine is not immortal, however. If the injuries are extensive enough, especially if they result in the loss of vital organs, large amounts of blood, and/or loss of physical form (such as having flesh burned away by fire or acid), Logan can die.

Wolverine, again due to his healing factor, has an enhanced resistance to disease, as well as an extended life span. Despite Wolverine's chronological age, he is still as healthy and physically fit as a man in his prime.

Abilities: Due to his extensive training as a CIA operative, a Samurai, and as a member of the Weapon X program, Wolverine is a master of multiple forms of martial arts, weapons, and vehicles. He is also a trained expert in computers, explosives, and assassination techniques.

If it was a pure fist fight Logan's got this in the bag. Batman without his gadgets, is like Iron Man without his armor. Even if it was in the dark, Wolvie still takes it. Bruce is one of earth's finest hand to hand combatant's, but due the experience and healing factor of Wolverine, Bruce will be joining his parents. Not easily, but eventually.

thats' true....batman's trained only for, at the most, like 20 - 30 yrs....whereas logan's had about a century

bruce is quite capable without his gadgets...

ra is practically immortal and bruce beat his ass...

he's got a fair chance imo...

there is no way logan will be arrogant in this match.
especialy a hand to hand fight.
whenever he had his sword fights he took them very seriously

"once again you are wrong, Wolverine slightly above peak human levels, batmans at the peakest of peak human levels,,,,,,where does the advantage go? hmmmmmm oh yeah this ones a toughy,,,,oh wait no it's not. LOGAN!
Bruce does have the brains in this battle though,,,can't take everything away from him,,,,he's DA MAN!"

Yeaaaaaa ok buddy, so would you also go and say that Logan can defeat Capt. America, or Daredevil? I dont think so. Maybe Bruce couldn't defeat Matt M., but he's a lot closer to him than Logan is. The fact is that Logan isn't on his level, despite being a mere mortal...
Hmm, I wonder what you'd say if you gave Bruce a healing factor aswell?

And also, Wolverine can press, what, 800lbs? Whereas Bruce is on the same level as Captain America, who can press 1000lbs (press, w/e the term you use is). And even if they were on the same strength level, which wolvie is not, put that together with his speed and smarts and Bruce will be the victor. The only factor in this debate that leans towards wolverine is his healing factor...

"what?!?!?! do you even read wolverine comic my friend?"

If you do not know this about Wolverine, apparently you have not. At first you know Logan wouldn't take him seriously, although once he sees that Bruce is not only keeping up but dictating the match, he'll wise up, or get more pissed off....

Jamaican are you saying Bruce can bench press 1000lb lol his not human than is he.

The stongest human will bench press 400lb no more than that not lift bench press.

no way batman can bench press 1000lb.

here is why wov will win.
-Wov can punch harder doing more damage than Batman.
-Wov is an equal in term of fighting skills(Wov is an Animal)
-Bat is smarter but he don't have his gadjets(even with that Wov can still win) and his smarts are not going get him much.
-Bat punching etc will have little effect on Wov , cuz he can heal.
-Wov has heal from serious injures and fast , so what ever bat gonna to his gotta to finish this fast.
-Bat will get tired and will be more injured than wov.

NO doubt Bat will put up a good put , after all his only human

Wolverine wins this easily (atleast if the writers were honest),
principally for the reasons Sentry touched upon.

Since Captain America was brought up, let us compare the three:

Training:

C.A.-Trained by US military, but not modern US military, but the
WWII one (no offence to any WWII veterans' grandchildren
here, but the average american soldier in WWII was nowhere
near as well trained as his german, british, japanese, or even
russian counterpart). With later added training with Avengers.

B-Trained himself across Asia in various martial arts forms. Later
training with JL (sort of).

W-Trained by Canadian govt., military, CIA, Weapon X program.
Pesonal tarining across Asia. More training with X-Men.
----

Purpose:

C.A.-Trained to fight Germans in WWII.

B-Trained himself to fight criminals.

W-Trained initially for war, later (under Weapon X) to fight
super-villians.

----

Experience:

C.A.-Fighting in WWII. Frozen for decades years. Fighting super-villains
with Avengers. Few decades doing so.

B-Mostly fighting street crime and some super-villains, alone (example
Killer croc), or with JL. Few decades doing so.

W-Mostly fighting super-villains, with plenty of fights against ninjas,
samurais, street thugs, etc... Many, MANY decades doing so.

----

Bottom line, of the three Wolverine is by far the best fighter. He has
received more training than either of the two, has lived alot more
than the two (I believe more than the two combined), during which
time he's been in a hell of alot more fights than either (or both) of
them, both against common street thugs, and super-villains of many
levels.

Also, Batman rarely physically attacks super-villains (or anyone
stronger than he is), instead using his skill to dodge blows while
deploying various gadgets to win.

Wolverine however, because of his adamantium, healing factor, and
more aggressive nature, pounces on anyone in his way, regardless of
strength (such as the Hulk). This gives Wolverine a further edge, both
in experience, and in psychology.

"Jamaican are you saying Bruce can bench press 1000lb lol his not human than is he.

The stongest human will bench press 400lb no more than that not lift bench press.

no way batman can bench press 1000lb."

Are you serious? You really believe that it's impossible for a human to bench press more than 400lbs, you are really stupid, or just totally naive. (Unless you arent typing properly and getting your point across correctly.) I know High School students that do more than that...
Here are a bunch of sites that prove that it IS possible to bench press more that 400lbs....

http://www.navycompass.com/sports/sportsview.asp?c=122897
That guy lifted - 540 bench press

http://www.heavysports.com/emag/curtdennis/recordbreakers.html
that guy squated over a 1000, and benched 7hundred something

AND the guiness record for "the youngest weightlifting record" is 285kg, from a 16 year old...

Now if a human can do it, I'm pretty sure someone in the comic book world, who is supposed to be at PEAK human level, better than everyone else, exceptional to everyone, can do it....

As I've said before, other than the healing factor, wolvie doesnt stand a chance


- also - Bruce is supposed to be EQUAL with C.America, and he CAN press 1000lbs...

"Bottom line, of the three Wolverine is by far the best fighter. He has
received more training than either of the two, has lived alot more
than the two (I believe more than the two combined), during which
time he's been in a hell of alot more fights than either (or both) of
them, both against common street thugs, and super-villains of many
levels."

So are you saying that Logan could best Cap. America in a fight as well?!? Thats pretty funny.....

Just because someone receives more training, or has been doing something longer than another person, doesnt necessarily mean he'll end up the victor. Some people are just simply more talented.
And I doubt that Logan puts all that training to use. Doesn't he have a major memory recollection issue? Imagine if Captain America or Batman had gotten all that training?

I dont even know how strong Batman is, im not sure if dc said how much he could bench

Wolverine is a pretty smart fighter himself too. With much more experience than Batman will ever have. And way more ruthless too.

Says who that Batman can press 1000 lbs ? And even if he can, so what ?

Again, why is Batman faster than Wolverine. I think Wolverine will able to react faster than Batman, thanks to his experience, his mutated body and his heightened senses.

You forget his adamantium skeleton and the insane amount of pain he can take. Sabretooth broke his hand once when trying to punch Wolverine. Give me one good reason why this can't happen to Batman ?

I think i said no skeleton. Not sure check the first post i made

Yes you did, my mistake.

Wolverine still wins though . He can take everything Batman can give to him and will even ask for more. But Batman can NOT take the damage Wolverine can.

Batman could dodge wolverines damage and use his 50000 martail arts(hell pick the sickest one) then beat up wolverine, and once hes knocked out for even a couple seconds then he loses the match to the bat, or wolverine just hands batman his ass.

Something else : I like a fair fight, but this is not a fair fight. Wolverine can't use his famous razor sharp claws and doesn't have his nigh unbreakable skeleton, but Batman only leaves his freaking belt at home ?

Like there actually was something in that belt that could seriously hurt Wolverine. Not an honest fight imo.

"You forget his adamantium skeleton and the insane amount of pain he can take. Sabretooth broke his hand once when trying to punch Wolverine. Give me one good reason why this can't happen to Batman ?"

Well if we are giving him the skeleton that of course it could happen to him aswell. but i was under the impression that he didnt have it, pretty sure thats what they said...

Well I have a question, are we going by the fighting synopsis that was used in Marvel vs. DC, in the sense that whoever just bests the other first is the victor? Or are we fighting 'to the death'? B/c if we are fighting to the death then of course Logans healing factor will play an huge contributor to him winning. But if its just a fight to see who's better, to see who bests the other person first, I'm sure Bruce will take him...

Wolverine has wrestled with a man under water got the upper hand and thrown him with enough force to crack the concrete side of the pool... and he was under water. He is much stronger then Batman and crossovers that show Batman and Cap as equals have no weight at all since they aren't cannon; if they were then Wolverine is married to Witchblade.

Wolverine is much more skilled fighter then Batman or Captain America, the thing is he doesn't remember a great deal of his training and it comes to him instictively during battle (which is why telepaths couldn't predict his moves back in the day... before new writers came along and didn't do their homework) so he can't all his skill when ever he wants.

How does knowing you are going to heal from most attacks and running headstrong in to battle make you cocky? Is Superman cocky because he lets bullets bounce of him instead of dodging him?

It is a fair fight because wolverine wasnt born with his adamatuim skeleton or his claws .

Batman wasnt born with his belt full of gadgets so he leaves that to

"How does knowing you are going to heal from most attacks and running headstrong in to battle make you cocky? Is Superman cocky because he lets bullets bounce of him instead of dodging him?"

It would if every single bullet was different, but he knows what the bullets are as they're coming towards him. Logan doesnt know about Batman in this case, but I'm sure he'd still be cocky.

"Like there actually was something in that belt that could seriously hurt Wolverine. Not an honest fight imo."

I'm sure that theres something in his belt, like lets say, some sort of gas, or something that could at least disable logan for a little, prob. knock him out before his healing factor destroys it.

Wouldn't count on that DP shot Wolverine with a tranq dart that could drop a T-Rex with a single dart... Wolverine went down but not instantly. Gas and tranqs aren't that effective on Logan.

Wolverine doesn't need to know what Batman will do because he knows he would get hurt by anything Batman is capable of... hardly cocky IMO.

And Wolverine was born with his claws Max Spidey

True. Bone claws, not as strong or sharp as his adamantium claws, but certainly sharp enough to slice Batman.

Yes but bone claw Wolverine cranks up his jobber arua to the max! Even Thanos' durability jobs to bone claw Wolverine.

Wow. Now you think Wolverine's bone claws will "job" Thanos?
Thanos can take shots from Galactus without getting KO'd....
and you think Logan will "job" him?

I said Thanos jobs to bone claw Wolverine. Seriously, two sentences man and you got confused. I guess that answer my question on wither or not you read comics or just look at the pretty pictures.

define "jobs."

this coming from a BOY who thinks his Wolverine can beat up GODZILLA.
grow up and read a book, son.

Zahit you sound like broken record... only you're much dumber.

When I said Thanos jobs it bone claw Wolverine what I mean is that Thanos written less effective to allow bone claw Wolverine to cut him. If you want a really good example look at any number of Captain America battles... people job to him alot.

yeah much much dumber .

the **** does 'jobs' mean?

I means that a character preforms a lower level then usual when he fights a certain character.

lets look at it like this.
they meet and they both take a stance.
emediatly they know eachothers fighting stance.
they switch and counter stances until one goes in for a strike and either connects or misses.
they fight from their is very short or very long

srankmissingnin,

So "Thanos jobs it bone claw Wolverine" means "Thanos is
fighting at lower power levels, thus enabling non-adamantiumed
Wolverine to beat/hurt him"?

So for example, if I'm playing basketball with a girl, and I deliberately
lower my playing skill, thus enabling her to win, one would say "King
Burger jobs (it?) to (so and so)"?

Fascinating!!

And people say a comic book forum is the last place to learn new
things!

Do you remember wrestling back in the day? Did you ever see the no-name guys that wrestle in the ring and do nothing but lose against the actual wrestling superstars? That's jobbing.

Without his adamantium, wolvie would be beat quite easily. BAtman is a master of marial arts, and would killl wolvie easily

Um, NO!
batman is a master of all martial arts. Wolvie failed to even be a samurai

Since you don't know what you are talking about it would be better for you to save your self the embarrassment and stop posting in this thread...

in theory Batman should win fairly easy...or mabye bearly..but he'd win.

Care to elaborate on your theory? Wolverine is stronger, faster at least equal in fighting ability (I think DD trumps Bats there so IMO Wolverine is much better), more ruthless and has a healing factor.

okay...but Batman is smarter...he's quickly learn of Logan healing and would find a way to over come it...how I don't know but hey this is Batman were talking about aaaaaaaaaaand Logan not using his claws in this fight either....remember old chum?

"Care to elaborate on your theory? Wolverine is stronger, faster at least equal in fighting ability (I think DD trumps Bats there so IMO Wolverine is much better), more ruthless and has a healing factor."

OOkkkkk buddy....I dont know why you're bringing DD into this b/c it just proves Batman winning even more. Batman is a hell of alot closer to DD level than Logan is. DD would wipe the floor with Logan, (if not, its just bad writing). Whereas Bruce would be contest for DD. Please, lets get real, the odds of Logan winning is slim. I admire how optimistic you are, but lets be realists, theres no way the failed Samurai competes with The Batman....

you got dat right mon!

okay batman knowing every matial art holds no water cause wolverine does too.
Failed samurai?
that's a matter of opion considering wolverines got as much experince and heart as anybody.

DD's villian gallery doesn't even compare to wolverines.

hmmmmm....mabye I should reconsider..nah..gotta go with Bats.

hows he gonna find a way around the healing factor when it's hand to hand combat?

"okay batman knowing every matial art holds no water cause wolverine does too.
Failed samurai?
that's a matter of opion considering wolverines got as much experince and heart as anybody."

Ok the heart statement, very sentimental, now i understand why you are pulling for Logan so much. Wolverine knows as many martial arts as bruce....im sorry, i had to pull away from the computer whilst i was laughing.... Logan is NOT on Bruces level when it comes to the art of fighting. And yes he is a failed Samurai. And experience whise, maybe. But it depends on whether you learn from your mistakes and how you use it. Someone could have all the experience in the world, that doesnt make them good at whatever it is they're doing...

don't know...I'll let Batman figure that one out...he's been caught without his belt and held up pretty good before..why not in this fight..cuz it against the midget Xman with the "healing power" forgive if I don't believe Logan could take him please please please please please won't you....I implore your forgiveness.

Once again i beg the question, are we fighting to the death, or are they fighting till one of them goes down the first time, just how they did in Marvel vs. DC....

here's the thing.
wolverine CAN afford to be the aggresor.
bruce can't.
wolverine gets punched and bleeds it heals instantly.
the same can no be said for batman

Ey mon..dis fight belong ta da Batman!

how?
without his belt fighting a equal,possibly superior fighter who has super human senses and a healing factor?

"here's the thing.
wolverine CAN afford to be the aggresor.
bruce can't.
wolverine gets punched and bleeds it heals instantly.
the same can no be said for batman"

Thats true, very true. But its not like bruce isnt patient enough to counterpunch. And how many times is the aggressor the one to fall flat first on his face...Many A Time....

"Ey mon..dis fight belong ta da Batman!"

Yeh Man, you know it...

"how?
without his belt fighting a equal,possibly superior fighter who has super human senses and a healing factor?"

I still dont understand why you are so delusional to the fact that he is "possibly superior fighter". HE IS NOT, AND NEVER WILL BE. Thats like trying to compare Norris to Lee, Norris will beat the crap out of alot of people, and he CAN fight (in fact he was taught by Lee himself ive heard), but you can NEVER put them in the same boat. This same theory applies.....

Batman...na na na na na Batman na na na na naBatman...Batman Batman...na na na na na Batman!!!!!!

Robin: holly beaten little hairy guy batman!

Batman: I had no choice old chum...he was asking for a beat down so I had to give him one....to the batmobile.

Jamaican you are aware that Wolverine a high end street level hero (low mid level) while Dare Devil isn't? Wolverine is physical superior to Dare Devil in every aspect including fighting skill.

Also Wolverine is fallen samurai not a failed samurai he disgraced him self and lost his honor it has nothing to do with lack of skill.

Batman would win.

You do know that Bruce Lee lost to Chuck Norris Jamaican?

I didn't. it must was a fake match or something.

I think Chuck Norris had some training under Bruce Lee too.

On the fight, Wolverine should still win, but take away his healing and he would probably be more honed with his skills rather than allowing his beserker.

Chuck Norris was seven times Karate Champion, he was above Lee IMO. Lee is just commercial hype and wasn't half as good as people like to think he was. My history teacher said that Chuck Norris beat Lee in a tournament or something when some kid was telling everyone how bad ass Lee was.

okay...I think I may have heard of this iccident.

"Jamaican you are aware that Wolverine a high end street level hero (low mid level) while Dare Devil isn't? Wolverine is physical superior to Dare Devil in every aspect including fighting skill."

Wow. Wow. That's just amazing. I congratulate you. You've made my day, i dont know the last time i laughed this hard. PLEASEEEE are you serious about Logan being superior to DD...no no, you're joking right. Damn thats really funny. Logan is no where near DD in fighting skill, NO WHERE. DD dropped Logan with one Chop, a simple karate chop. Daredevil also beat up Sabertooth, who Logan has problems with.

"You do know that Bruce Lee lost to Chuck Norris Jamaican?"

No i wasnt aware. Thanks for the Info.


Look, point is, Logan will never be on DD's level, Logan will never be on Bruce's level. Imagine for just a second, what the possibilities would be if either of them had Logans abilities...Kinda scary...

An unaware Wolverine was brought down by down by DD's throat chop in a Garth Ennis issue of Punisher (I'm sure I dont need to explain what that means. Also DD never beat Sabretooth he was pretty even with him in that issue. Sabretooth could have killed DD when he was trapped on the rumble but he didn't. Also DD got an unoffical strength bost for that issue so he could compeat.

Number one, as Wolverine has said many times, "I'm the best there is at what I do. And what I do ain't pretty, bub."

That being said, Wolverine, without his adamantium skeleton looses to Batman? Why's that?

Because Wolverine is the best there is at what he does in the Marvel U. Batman competes in the DCU, and let's face it, to be an ordinary human being and survive in the DCU is pretty impressive. The DCU has all the power houses, the heroes and villians in it are far stronger, on average, than those in the Marvel U. Therefore, Bats has to be a whole lot better skill wise to hold his own.

Also this is non-unbreakable skeleton Wolverine, and as someone pointed out, it takes Wolverine a few hours or a couple of days to heal broken bones. Of his normal skeleton the only part that is more durable are his bone claws, every other bone in Wolverine's body, without adamantium is just as strong as the bones in any other healthy person. In this case Batman can and will break Wolverine's bones, putting him out of the fight for a few hours or a few days, that means Wolverine is helpess while Batman is fine. Because he could block and avoid Wolverine's without taking fatal wounds for long enough to break Wolvie's bones. That's just the way that goes down.

Now, if we're talking adamantium skeleton Wolverine, he wins, because then Batman will have a hell of a hard time inflicting damage on Wolverine that will keep him out of the fight more than a few minutes. Even with his gagdets. That's just the way of things.

Wait a minute.

If it is accepted that Wolverine lived alot longer than Batman, learned
more martial arts and fighting techniques than Batman, and faught
a lot more opponents (both normal and Super-powered) than Batman
during their life-times, then how in God all Mighty's name can Batman
be a superior fighter than Wolverine?

Let me repeat: Bruce Wayne learned martial arts to fight criminals,
Logan was trained to fight super-villains. What's the comparison?

Let me also again say: How often to do you Batman engage in
hand-to-hand fights against near-equal/equal/superior fighters?
Compare that to how often Wolverine has fought people like
Sabertooth or Silver Samurai.

Besides, Batman was never that tough or smart when he first
appeared. He was just a really intelligent, well-trained detective.
Logan however, has always been tough. He's always been able
to go up against super-villains (like the Hulk), unlike Batman whose
intelligence and utility-belt had to be amplified greatly to have him
keep up with the likes of Superman and the JL.

Why is this even debated? Logan kicks billionaire's butt, is all.

Not exactly the best logic ever...

Depends on the writer. Sometimes he takes bullets like it's nothing, and other times you can suckerpunch him (DD) and he will go down.

Since when does Batman break bones when fighting someone ? It's not like, whenever he fights somebody, he wants to break something (except maybe in the Dark Knight Returns).

So Batman dodges all of Wolverines (clumsy) attacks and then breaks some of his bones ? Lol, you should write comics yourself.

Wolverine is as good as fighter as Batman. He was fighting for his life before Batmans' grandfather even was born, and was highly trained in several martial arts (amongst other things !). Not only that, but he's a cunning fighter when he has to be, and doesn't hold back either.

Last but not least, he can take much more pain than Batman ever can dream of.

hmmmmm.....still with all his advantages..gotta go with mr. wayne.

hysterical

Agreed

Its funny but not accurate.

No one's questioning Logan's vast skills and experience.
He's an awesome fighter. One of the only reasons I give people
like Batman, Daredevil, Black Panther & Captain America
an edge in fighting skills over Logan is that they're not just
martial artists. They're also amazing acrobats and gymnasts as well.
Logan is freakin' mad with fighting skills, but he's not an acrobat.
Look at it this way. Would you rather fight a kung-fu black belt,
or a kung-fu black belt who's also an acrobat/gymnast?
It's an added dimension to their fighting ability that makes them that
much more dangerous and agile. That's why I would give the edge in
pure fighting to characters like those over Logan.

I see your point but you have to remember that it isn't that Logan isn't agile its that he doesn't need to use it. He has shown amazing agility and speed feats when his healing factor hasn't been working; he has even tricked people into thinking he was the beast he was so agile. The ability to take a hit with out have to think about what will happen is a great commodity as Wolverine can simple stand their take the hit and counter attack when his attacker is left open.

Yes Wolverine is incredibly quick and agile. But he's NOT an acrobat.
I've read the vast majority of ALL Marvel flagship titles since 1962.
I've read virtually every X-men and Wolverine appearences for decades.
I've NEVER seen Logan demonstrate ACROBATICS. NEVER. EVER.
Yes he's freaking amazing and fast. But HE'S NOT AN ACROBAT.
We see Nightcrawler doing his stuff all the time in battle and Danger Room
exercises with Logan. NEVER has Logan demonstrated anything NEAR
acrobatics like Nightcrawler or the other characters.
These are people who can get around Manhattan by swinging around
like gymnasts on crack!!! You see them do this on a regular basis.
NEVER has Logan demonstrated this ability. I'm not taking anything
away from Wolverine, I'm just stating the facts regarding ALL his
appearence of the last 30 years or so.

"Wait a minute.

If it is accepted that Wolverine lived alot longer than Batman, learned
more martial arts and fighting techniques than Batman, and faught
a lot more opponents (both normal and Super-powered) than Batman
during their life-times, then how in God all Mighty's name can Batman
be a superior fighter than Wolverine?

Let me repeat: Bruce Wayne learned martial arts to fight criminals,
Logan was trained to fight super-villains. What's the comparison?

Let me also again say: How often to do you Batman engage in
hand-to-hand fights against near-equal/equal/superior fighters?
Compare that to how often Wolverine has fought people like
Sabertooth or Silver Samurai.

Besides, Batman was never that tough or smart when he first
appeared. He was just a really intelligent, well-trained detective.
Logan however, has always been tough. He's always been able
to go up against super-villains (like the Hulk), unlike Batman whose
intelligence and utility-belt had to be amplified greatly to have him
keep up with the likes of Superman and the JL.

Why is this even debated? Logan kicks billionaire's butt, is all."

Just b/c Logan's trained longer, harder, lived longer, trained longer, doesn't make him the better fighter. As someone pointed out previously, it also takes logan a couple days to heal completely. Also what do you mean how often anyone hand to hand. What about on the streets? What about training with different people like Nightwing, Cassandra Cain, Shiva, etc etc.
And do you think that logan would be able to go up to those like the hulk without the healing factor? Umm noooo

... It would be funny to see Logan swing down the street on a grappling hook.

It doesn't take Wolverine a couple of days to heal broken bones, it takes a matter a seconds. Wolverine has ran head strong into rail gun fire... it slowed him down thats about it.

It does not take Wolvie "seconds" to heal serious injuries.
Any examples of him doing so are nonsense. Don't look at one
particular comic. Look at ALL HIS APPEARENCES of the last 30 years.
This is an up to date stat on Wolverine from the mouths of Marvel Comics.
If you look at the current Marvel Universe Handbook, it states very clearly:

Wolverine possesses an accelerated healing factor based on his physiology. While most normal humans heal injuries over a long period of time, Wolverine's healing factor speeds up that natural process. Wolverine's natural healing has been advanced to the point where he can heal extensive injuries (such as broken limbs) in a matter of hours to days. This factor gives him a higher resistance to poisons and toxins, and he can recover from almost any injury. The more extensive the injury, the longer the healing time will be.

Wolverine is not immortal, however. If the injuries are extensive enough, especially if they result in the loss of vital organs, large amounts of blood, and/or loss of physical form (such as having flesh burned away by fire or acid), Logan can die.

Wolverine, again due to his healing factor, has an enhanced resistance to disease, as well as an extended life span. Despite Wolverine's chronological age, he is still as healthy and physically fit as a man in his prime.

I perfer comic appears to the stats listed in the hand books. The Guides have really good bios for the most part but the stats are less then accurate on almost all accounts.

So do I.
That's why I base my knowledge of Wolverine by
summing up ALL HIS APPEARENCES of the last 30 years.
This is why I can tell the difference between accuracy and crap writing.
That is my filter. I've read the vast majority of ALL his appearences.
Yes there have been some books that show him healing in seconds
or taking several bullets to the neck without even flinching.
These are examples of writing him out of context. I know this because
these are lone examples in the 30 YEAR HISTORY of Wolverine.
I love Wolverine.
But when a writer desides to depict him doing things only Superman
can do (taking several bullets to the neck without even flinching),
that's an insult to Wolverine, an insult to Marvel's long storied history,
an insult to comic fans, an insult to me. Marvel went BANKRUPT in
the 1990's due to bad business practices and bad quality.
Think about that.....BANKRUPT.
Marvel Comics does not own Marvel Comics anymore.
That kind of inconsistant writing has been creeping back lately and
it bugs me. I love Marvel Comics. But I refuse to buy crap.
The uber-popularity of Wolverine and Marvel's insistence on pleasing
"fanboys" by depicting Wolverine doing things he shouldn't be able to
are ruining it for a LOT of long-time fans. I love Wolverine too, but for
God's sake, lets keep it real.

Wolverine has been taking bullets with out being injured for a long time now. Wolverine isn't as tough as he was in the 80s, he used to take sword chops to the neck from Silver Samurai and healing in the next panel... now a stab to the gut drops him for a few seconds.

Wolverine still has 150+ years of fighting experience, an accelerated healing factor, superhuman senses/reflexes, superhuman strength, and feral rage at his disposal. Batman is a great fighter, he's resourceful, and he's pretty darn intelligent.

There's no way in hell Batman would win, unless he called upon outside sources, which I am assuming is against the rules of this fight.

If you want to be technical, DC Comics doesn't own DC Comics; Time Warner/AOL does. They do some pretty outrageous stuff with DC characters too.

Who owns Marvel Comics now?

I am in total agreement with you Cube

Nice to know someone is.

Wolverine is basically a ground person, but has shown acrobatic like dexterity, such as when he penetrated into Terry Adams, during the capture of the Hunter in Darkness, his danger room scenario training where he spent days replaying random changes in trying to take out Magneto, etc. And I believe it either Forge to quip right after the Shiva encounter that Wolverine was showing skills of a gold metalist (I doubt he was referring to something like shotput or discus), while beating down 4 chess games (something like that) during his danger room training session.

Wolverine with or without adamantium has Class 800 Pounds, is in peak human condition, is on Earth from over 100 years, and has far more experience.He beats Bat after an outstanding fight.

"Also this is non-unbreakable skeleton Wolverine, and as someone pointed out, it takes Wolverine a few hours or a couple of days to heal broken bones. Of his normal skeleton the only part that is more durable are his bone claws, every other bone in Wolverine's body, without adamantium is just as strong as the bones in any other healthy person. In this case Batman can and will break Wolverine's bones, putting him out of the fight for a few hours or a few days, that means Wolverine is helpess while Batman is fine. Because he could block and avoid Wolverine's without taking fatal wounds for long enough to break Wolvie's bones. That's just the way that goes down."

If wolverine can take a punch from the hulk without his adamantium bones and gotten up again, I dont think there is much batman is gonna do in terms of breaking his bones.

Also, to everyone who says that wolverine is not at batmans level of fighting, read some wolverine comics. Wolverine has demonstrated he is as good or better then batman in terms of skill in fighting, add that, with his healing powers there is NO way batman could take wolverine down, he wouldnt be able to hurt him bad enough where as wolverine could keep taking the punishment and keep dishing it out.

wolverine

Wolverine would OWN batman in hand to hand combat. Moreover if he doesnt' have the adamantium he would RAPE batman. Adamantiumless he is stronger/faster and heals quicker...


Captain america can take down batman? Since when? Hmm I was under the impression daredevilw ould lose to wolverine too...but I donno enough about daredevil. I know elektra would lose and aren't they even?


Oh yeah, batman and captain america can both press 750lbs. The PEAK human amount. (No one can bench press over 700lbs in real life. NO ONE. Any record you find is with a BENCH PRESS SHIRT, that's completely different). Wolverine will be just as strong @ WORST

Jwang isright

Batman can beat him so easily

Everyone is discussing the speed of Wolverine's healing factor,
but what about Batman?! He has NO super-healing factor!

Why is everyone assuming that it is Logan who will get wounded
in the fight, but not Batman?

If Batman manages to crack a couple of Logan's ribs, Logan will
probably manage to do the same, probably more, to Batman, then
who's healing factor will be faster? It doesn't matter if it takes Logan
even a couple of weeks to heal a broken bone (actually far less
than that), that's still 1-2 months faster than Batman.

And Jamaican, how is training longer, in more martial arts styles,
and fighting more battles over more years, NOT make you a better
fighter than someone who hasn't? If these criterias aren't good
enough, then which are?

I totally agree.

wolverine has more desire to win, because he fights for survival

i CANT belive you brought up norris and lee.
if you want to see real fighting don't watch kung fu or karate tournements

logan wins!!!

could have typed it better myself

"i CANT belive you brought up norris and lee.
if you want to see real fighting don't watch kung fu or karate tournements

logan wins!!!"

What are you a retard?!? Did I say that they were the best fighters ever? Did i compare the 2 to every other fighter in this world? No, i was comparing the 2 to each other. Don't be dyslexic, learn how to read.

"And Jamaican, how is training longer, in more martial arts styles,
and fighting more battles over more years, NOT make you a better
fighter than someone who hasn't? If these criterias aren't good
enough, then which are?"

Some people are better at things than others are, its called talent or skill. Wolverine's been fighting for longer than Cap. America and Captain America will beat Logan. Wolverine's been fighting longer than Daredevil or Electra, and they will OWN him. If your theory is correct, what makes this so? As much as I like him, Wolverine is an overrated martial artist / hero that is not in the 3 aforementioned hero's league.

99 Guinness record holder benched over 800 LBS. He also went underneath the front of a chevy or ford economy van, and pressed that as well.




This kid is pretty close. But still Sabertooth wins. ^__^

hmmmmm...maybe.

"Wolverine would OWN batman in hand to hand combat. Moreover if he doesnt' have the adamantium he would RAPE batman. Adamantiumless he is stronger/faster and heals quicker..."

Are you sure he's stronger? I would think he's stronger with the adamantium. Also less susceptible to damage.

"Captain america can take down batman? Since when? Hmm I was under the impression daredevilw ould lose to wolverine too...but I donno enough about daredevil. I know elektra would lose and aren't they even?"

PLEASE do not read another comic until you get common sense and find out that Daredevil and Elektra would BEAT THE SHIT out of Logan.

"Oh yeah, batman and captain america can both press 750lbs. The PEAK human amount. (No one can bench press over 700lbs in real life. NO ONE. Any record you find is with a BENCH PRESS SHIRT, that's completely different). Wolverine will be just as strong @ WORST"

Please do your homework before saying crap like this. Capt. America I've heard (I'll recheck) can 1000 lbs, and Batman is considered his equal. Logan can 800 lbs.

OOps, this is the Wolvie and Batman thread. Wolvie wins.

That is only your opinion, nothing more. I'm not one of those guys that claim that Wolverine is da bomb and the best and whatever, but to boldly claim that Elektra, Captain America, DD and Batman will OWN Wolverine is bollocks. He almost has as much of experience as the aforementioned together lol, and can almost take as much pain than the four together.

I certainly don't say they can not defeat him, but they will certainly spend the next day in the hospital.

No way Batman can lift 1000 lbs. And he isn't the equal of Captain America either, Cap is slightly above Batmans level.

And even if he can lift 1000 lbs (yeah right), do you REALLY think it will make a difference ?

Batman can lift 500 to 600 lbs...

"That is only your opinion, nothing more. I'm not one of those guys that claim that Wolverine is da bomb and the best and whatever, but to boldly claim that Elektra, Captain America, DD and Batman will OWN Wolverine is bollocks. He almost has as much of experience as the aforementioned together lol, and can almost take as much pain than the four together.

I certainly don't say they can not defeat him, but they will certainly spend the next day in the hospital."

Ok, as important as experience is, in some cases it means nothing. Someone can have all the experience in the world and still make the same mistakes (or more) as someone who doesn't. In my opinion Logan has not shown or proved to me (skills/fightings wise) that he uses that experience that you guys are saying. And I said that Capt. America will beat him, which is true, I stand by that. I said that Daredevil / Elektra will OWN Logan, which I definetely stand by. Come on, it's been proven before, and if it were to happen again, it'd be proven again.

Plus, you think without his adamantium he'd be able to take as much pain "than the four together". Come on, don't be ignorant, I dont even know what to say to that...

"And even if he can lift 1000 lbs (yeah right), do you REALLY think it will make a difference ?"

Actually, you know what, you're right, it WONT make a difference, b/c i still stand by my choice of Bruce beating Logan, whether or not he tops him in the strength dept.

Taking away Batman's gadgets, and putting him into a fight with Logan who basically only weapon is his claws....Logan has more experience. He's been around alot longer, and as long as he's not feral he can think.

Logan has the advantage. Weapons, healing factor, the willingness to kill.

I chose Captain America as more the victor in the Captain America vs. Wolverine thread on the basis of the shield he carries and expertly uses. If you are talking without it, even without the adamantium or claws, Wolverine has a far better chance at winning (i.e. Wolverine headbutted Captain America once and was on the verge of taking him out). Daredevil would be tougher for Wolverine than Elektra, but he has a strong chance against him too. Batman has been claimed to have a radar sense, but it really isn't even close to Daredevil's level.

wolverine proves it all the time.
he trained kitty pride to be somewhat of a samurai

"Daredevil would be tougher for Wolverine than Elektra, but he has a strong chance against him too. Batman has been claimed to have a radar sense, but it really isn't even close to Daredevil's level."

He would be tougher than Elektra, but he'd still slaughter Wolverine. I haven't heard of Batman having that 'radar' sense, but if it is true you are right in the sense that it's no where near DD's.

"Logan has the advantage. Weapons, healing factor, the willingness to kill."

Willingness to kill, THAT is true. Something that he definetely has that Bruce hasn't.

"wolverine proves it all the time.
he trained kitty pride to be somewhat of a samurai"

That's still not proving it, b/c he trained her 'somewhat' to be a samurai. I could train someone to be an awesome Tennis player or athlete in general, that doesn't mean that I'm awesome at it myself (although in that dept. i am). For example, one of my old highschool coachs wasn't such a good player, but he was an awesome coach. And it works both ways. Plus, Bruce has trained Dick, or Tim and I'm sure others...

Most of your posts have been well thought out, so I try to cut you some slack, but apparently you don't the same for me.


I said, BENCH PRESS SHIRTS. Ryan Kenelly has been known to bench press over 1000lbs in REAL LIFE. But this is witha BENCH PRESS SHIRT, like I mentioned in my other post.


In anycase, the exact numbers are not important, the idea is. Captain America and Batman are DEAD even, they are the PEAK human level. That means they're the equivalent of like an olympic athelete in any event....This puts their bench press around 800lbs. Captain America POSSIBLY edges out batman by a sliver...only because the super soldier serum guarantees that his physique remains at the absolute peak. Batman must vigourously excercise, which he does.

Now Wolverine is also at PEAK human level, but with a slight advantage due to his healing factor. If you had that healing factor, you're just going to be able to build more muscle...plain and simple.

And Daredevil and Elektra beat wolverine FLAT OUT? THis is the general concensus? Somehow I don't think that's right. I'd give psylocke the edge over elektra, and Wolverine will most definitely take her down 7/10 times.

Wolverine edges out Batman and Captain America in a fight. That's just the plain and simple truth. Good writing could have it go either way, but Wolverine is most definitely a slight favorite. He's on par as far as hand to hand combat skills, with more years of experience, and now he has claws and a ridiculous healing factor. For Christs sake, hasn't Wolverine gone up against Spider-Man? No freakin way in hell Batman or Captain America are taking spiderman down.



Originally posted by Sentry
99 Guinness record holder benched over 800 LBS. He also went underneath the front of a chevy or ford economy van, and pressed that as well.

Oh yea...here's food for thought.


What if Bane tried to take down Wolverine?

That's right, he would get his ASS handed to him. Even with his super strength, he will not be able to hold wolverine back. Wolverine would tear him to shreds.

Adamantium or not. In fact I tend to think Wolverine w/out the adamantium is a lot scarier. He's not stoppable by the normal human...you can't even shoot him through the brain...he'lll heal too fast. You have to sever his head and throw it far away (So says Professor X).
Bane has no chance....

and what happened w/ Bane vs Bats?

"Oh yea...here's food for thought.
What if Bane tried to take down Wolverine?
That's right, he would get his ASS handed to him. Even with his super strength, he will not be able to hold wolverine back. Wolverine would tear him to shreds.
Adamantium or not. In fact I tend to think Wolverine w/out the adamantium is a lot scarier. He's not stoppable by the normal human...you can't even shoot him through the brain...he'lll heal too fast. You have to sever his head and throw it far away (So says Professor X).
Bane has no chance....
and what happened w/ Bane vs Bats?"

Wouldn't this prove my point for the argument on strenth being an overrated factor (as I've previously said)?

Are you also saying that Logan heals faster with out the adamantium? I am not an expert on him so I dont know, but if I had to guess, i would think that he heals faster with the Adamantium b/c of the fact that the AD. makes him less susceptible to damage, therefore he has to heal less etc. etc... So if my theory is correct than wouldnt it take Logan weeks to recover from a bullet wound in the head? I mean with the AD doenst it take him a while?(if it goes through his head in the first place. I dont know where the AD skeleton covers up to). So imagine without it.

Sorry but I still stick with my decision of Bruce over Logan.

I know that Bane severely injured Bruce. (isnt that why he had to take a significant time off, and then later re-trained with Shiva, where she ended up framing him/testing him by killing a Master of a school and then he had to fight off his students one by one.) Or something along those lines. But just from thinking about it, I can't imagine Bruce trying to fight him strength to strenght, thats kinda stupid. And i think if Logan tried doing the same, he'd get hurt too (strength - strength)...

BTW sorry if i came off rude or arrogant, my apologies...

Yeaaaaaa ok buddy, so would you also go and say that Logan can defeat Capt. America, or Daredevil? I dont think so. Maybe Bruce couldn't defeat Matt M., but he's a lot closer to him than Logan is. The fact is that Logan isn't on his level, despite being a mere mortal...
Hmm, I wonder what you'd say if you gave Bruce a healing factor aswell?"

In a fist fight, yes without his sheild tha cap is still a badass but logan has every bit as much of a chance of beating him as he does batman, Daredevil too, although DD's got his senses he would tire, and logans factor would compensate. And I already said in terms of h2h the only thing that gives wolverine an advantage besides his senses, and experience, is his healing factor, that factor that tips the scales in his favor, otherwise the bats would most likely kick his ass all over town and back.

"And also, Wolverine can press, what, 800lbs? Whereas Bruce is on the same level as Captain America, who can press 1000lbs (press, w/e the term you use is). And even if they were on the same strength level, which wolvie is not, put that together with his speed and smarts and Bruce will be the victor. The only factor in this debate that leans towards wolverine is his healing factor..."

What!?!?!?! Bruce is a peak human logan is above peak. Give me one example where bruce is pushing up 1000pounds on bench,,,,just one,,,,any one. I don't know where you got the idea that a normal guy,,,,even in comic books, could do such an absurd thing.

"So are you saying that Logan could best Cap. America in a fight as well?!? Thats pretty funny....."

Well honestly I think that logan has as much training and experience if not more, it's just that cap uses his strategic brain wayyyyyyy to well for a guy like wolvie to easily overcome. it's hard to explain but i hope you get what I'm reffering to.

"He is much stronger then Batman and crossovers that show Batman and Cap as equals have no weight at all since they aren't cannon; if they were then Wolverine is married to Witchblade."

I am in agreement with both crossovers.....hmmmmm witchblade,,,,lucky hairy dog.

"True. Bone claws, not as strong or sharp as his adamantium claws, but certainly sharp enough to slice Batman."

just for info, those claws were written strong enough to cut through rock, and wolverine took a few full on shots from the Hulk without adamantium,,,,,good thing he's got that healing factor huh? short of pressure points and broken bones bruce really can't do much to wolverine to hurt him. and even so, wolverine recovered from being KOed in 7 seconds one time.

"Even Thanos' durability jobs to bone claw Wolverine."
TIS TRUE! all hale the Jobber claws!

"Zahit you sound like broken record... only you're much dumber."

hahahahaha

"Wolvie failed to even be a samurai"
pfffft since when? fallen samurai you mean. That's circumstantial, samurai code has nothing to do with this fight.

"Thats true, very true. But its not like bruce isnt patient enough to counterpunch. And how many times is the aggressor the one to fall flat first on his face...Many A Time...."

Perhaps, but how many times does the agressor sport a healing factor?

"Chuck Norris was seven times Karate Champion, he was above Lee IMO. Lee is just commercial hype and wasn't half as good as people like to think he was. My history teacher said that Chuck Norris beat Lee in a tournament or something when some kid was telling everyone how bad ass Lee was."

This is a falacy, when they fought, norris received broken bones, rist or ankle I forget,,,,,lee was far superior. but that's a diff debate entirely.

As far as wolverine's healing ability goes, it depends on how much energy he has, If wolverine is running on a high amounts of energy he can heal up in no time, and vissa versa, for example due to the influx of enormous amounts of energy wolverine regenerated from a single drop of blood in less than a minute. impressive, so if wolverine's well fed and rested before the fight, he'll be fine. Also without adamantium wolverine's body tries to compensate by kicking his healing abilities into overdrive, as well as his overall strength. This is why proffessor-x stated that wolverine w/bone could only be killed by decapitation. the bone claw wolverine has been the strongest manifestation of wolverine to date, and due to his overdriven healing factor he'd take this.

so tehn jinzin is w/ me.

This is so obvious, Wolverine is the winner. Batman fanboys just won't accept it. Listen, batman would get rocked by spiderman i a fight right? No question about it.... Well wolverine can stand a chance, end of story. Daredevil is also clearly the slight underdog vs Wolverine.


And how is benching 1000lbs absurd for a comic character? How is that absurd at all? Look at the physiques of these comic book characters. How is it absurd at all? A person who could do what batman does, I would actually expect him to be able to bench press more than 1000lbs in real life. Now you're putting on ur own mental block where you confuse the real world with the comics...you think...OMG 1000lbs!!! that's so much, who could bench that? Be realisitic.

Ok well be realistic, who can land from the heights batman has without losing his ability to walk. Who can punch as hard as batman can? Anyone who could, would surely be able to benchn 1000lbs. Batman is like 230lbs at 5% bodyfat. Someone like that in real life could bench around 700lbs

Lik I said give one instance where batman has ever pressed 1000 pounds,,,,just one.

Batman isn't a body builder, he's muscular but lean, he ain't putting up 1000 pounds, but regardless,,,,,,even if he could Wolverine w/bone took on hulk and held his own, even won one of those fights. Batman's not gonna win this time....an it pains me to say that,,,truley i love batman......(grumbles) stupid batman movie not coming out for months, stupid wb I'll get em for this......(grumble)

A question:

Since when did DareDevil become a (much) better fighter than
Wolverine or Batman?

How many years has DD spent in the East learning martial arts?

How many top-secret government intelligence/military agencies
has he been trained by?

How many super-strength fighters has he fought?

How many hours has he spent in high-tech training rooms?

How many super-heros has he trained with or fought along-side?

Sorry people, but as someone who has read plenty of DD comics,
I never saw him do anything that Logan or Batman couldn't do,
and better.

I think people are mistaken his hightened senses for hightened
physical abilities. He is no more agile or stronger than Wayne
or Logan (though he probably is more acrobatic than Logan). And
he certainly isn't anywhere near as well trained or experienced
as the two, especially Logan.

"He may bench press approximately 725 pounds and is the near-equal or equal of the world's best athlete in any Olympic event"



http://www.starnet-database.com/dbase_deo/profiles/batman/batman.html


Proving my point exactly. He is as strong as a human can be...so pressing 100lbs is NOT unrealistic at all. It doesn't matter if he's abodybuilder or not....moreover bodybuilders don't lift a lot either. IF you have ANY idea what you are talkin about you'd know that bodybuilding is about diet, powerlifting is about weight.
http://www.columbia.edu/~dw2071/bdbsize.jpg
*that's me @ 153lbs on the right, lets see a picture of ur fool ass before you start talking anymore about weights.

Check out other stats...they will say captain america can press in excess of 800 pounds. That's just the measurement standard used, pressing amount. What do you wnt me to sat, batman can punch with etc lbs of force? WtF is going to understand that.


and you are an IDIOT. Read all my posts....I am the PRIME defender of Wolverine. I say wolverine will definitely win.


and as far the the bench press goes, Batman can be seen curling 200lbs in Batman beyond and he says he isn't full strength. You curl 200, you bench over 1K that's for sure. Ur an idiot, now I'm upset that you agree w/ me that wolverine is gonna win. Wish you were against me cuz ur a fool


PS: Kingburger... THANK YOU. I don't understand why people are saying DD could wipe the floor w/ wolverine. Where the HELL did they come up witht hat idea.

"Listen, batman would get rocked by spiderman i a fight right? No question about it. Well wolverine can stand a chance, end of story."

1st Question. Yes he would lose to Spiderman
2nd Question. Wolverine may stand a chance compared to Batman, but he still goes down to Spiderman. Spiderman is faster, stronger, and smarter than Logan, also he could prob. fight him without being touched once.

"Daredevil is also clearly the slight underdog vs Wolverine."

Hell no. That's totally wrong. Not only does he have his vision, he's been trained by the best martial artist in the Marvel Universe. He's an olympic level athlete with EXTRAordinary agility, endurance, skill and balance. I mean he dropped Logan once with a karate chop. And if you want to bring in another point for DD, he's faught Sabertooth, who always give Wolv. problems.

"Since when did DareDevil become a (much) better fighter than
Wolverine or Batman?"

He has always been better, not a FAR way better, but much better in the sense that Hand - hand you shouldn't compare them. (When using weapons it is said that Batman will win between the 2 though)

"How many years has DD spent in the East learning martial arts?"

I'm not sure where he was trained. I just know by who. But why does it matter if he went to the east to learn?

"I think people are mistaken his hightened senses for hightened
physical abilities. He is no more agile or stronger than Wayne
or Logan (though he probably is more acrobatic than Logan). And
he certainly isn't anywhere near as well trained or experienced
as the two, especially Logan"

Just b/c he hasn't trained with as many things or people doesn't mean he wont rock both of them. (Just as in the debate of Wolv. VS Batman). also DD does have EXTRAordinary agility, endurance, skill and balance.

logans beat spiderman

why is strength even a big issue in this fight?
the better one would use more body leverage than strength

"logans beat spiderman"

No way. Logan falls to Parker.
He even took out Wolv./Nightcrawler/Storm/ and Prof. X, didn't he?

"why is strength even a big issue in this fight?
the better one would use more body leverage than strength"

It's not. Spidey has too many other weapons/abilities/factors that would contribute to his victory over Logan.

Daredevil is skilled, but not to the extent of easily beating the likes of Wolverine. It was Stick (Daredevil/Elektra's mentor) that said if Wolverine wanted to go up the "hill" (or was it mountain?), they would easily have allowed him to join. That's respect.



Last I saw this mentioning was by Black Canary (during the period when she was temporarily made a cripple) when she was fighting a character who was as skilled as Batman but lacked a "radar sense" (i.e. he failed to sense her presence behind a door when she attacked him).



Wolverine is definitely a skilled teacher too. Storm, Shadowcat, and Nightcrawler have definitely benefited from it. I think what he taught them was basic/intermediate fighting techniques to hone and parry atttacks, and some ninjitsu.

"WtF is going to understand that?"

an I'm the idiot? hat didn't even make sense. You're pretty angry over something so trivial, got some pent up frustration inside ya huh?

"so pressing 100lbs is NOT unrealistic at all. "

I never said it was, but 1000 pounds is a different story.

"I am the PRIME defender of Wolverine"

you're making youself out to sound like some sort of super hero. lol

"that's me @ 153lbs on the right, lets see a picture of ur fool ass before you start talking anymore about weights. "

that's fine and nice that you are vein enough to go posting half naked pics of yourself on the net, but I'm slightly larger than you, and unless you want me to further humiliate you, I'm not going to post a pic.

"He may bench press approximately 725 pounds and is the near-equal or equal of the world's best athlete in any Olympic event."

this is from your link. Why would you give me a link that only further proves my point? bwhahahaha,,,,,and I'm the idiot...riiiiiiight.

The fact is if you're lifting weights regardless of power, whatnot you build muscle it's as simple as that. Batman is muscular but in the comic he's not as big as he is in the show. He needs to be lean in order to be as acrobatic and such as he is,,,,,,you still haven't answered my request.....where has abtman ever benched 1000 pounds.
Another thing don't use a cartoon to support your arguments cause it won't help you too win a debate, or appear knowledgeable

honestly I don't know why we're arguing over this when we're both in agreement that wolverine wins, it's moot point. relax, lay of the steroids and go for a walk.
it's only further making you look like an ass.

No it's not a moot point. If you understood that explaining why Wolverine beats Batman is more important than simply claiming Wolverine beats Batman, then perhaps you'd finally have a clue what's going on and know that none of these reasons are "moot" points. And why do I get the feeling you wouldn't even know how to use the word moot, if batman hadn't used it in the last episode of JLU? True we may both be in favor of wolverine winning, but I am accepting of how amazing batman is AND then proving why Wolverine will still win. You on the other hand attempted to debunk several of my posts...probably without realizing that Iwas in favor of wolverine.



Obviously, 100lbs was a typo,I meant to write 1000lbs. Think of it like this...how remarkable does someone have to be in the REAL world to bench press 600lbs nowadays? The answer is, not that remarkable. It's quite an accomplishment, but it's not unbelievable or unheard of, especially when some hundred people can do it.

Now you're going to tell me that in the comic book world, someone as amazing as batman cannot bench press 1000lbs? This is a fictional world you know...

On a side note...are you saying batman does not lift weights? Is that what you're trying to tell me? LoL. Are break dancers agile? I can't tell you how much lifting weights helped me with breakdancing...you might want to look into gymnasts as well, should they not lift any weights cuz it might ruin their agility? AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH


http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/c/captainamerica.htm
"Strength Level: Captain America represents the pinnacle of human physical perfection. While not superhuman, he is as strong as a human being can be. He can lift (press) a maximum of 800 pounds with supreme effort."


Now don't be a little ***** and say "that's 800lbs, not 1000lbs". These numbers are not absolute and it comes down to this, both batman and cap can bench press as much as the strongest NORMAL man on the planet, normal meaning not superhuman. Now when their comics were first written, that was around 700lbs...Do tell me, how is it not possible now that normal human beings in the real world press 1000lbs? And since you're an idiot I'll re-mention that Ryan Kenelly has put up over 1000lbs.

I am no superhero, it's just I post in favor of Wolverine, then you knock my post to prove that wolverine is better... Read up several posts and you'll see what I mean.

Again you're confusing the real world with comics... "You need to be lean..." Now let me ask you this? In the real world...if someone lean can bench press 500lbs...is it so ridiculous to think that Batman can press 1000lbs while being lean? Is it? Also, do these rules of physics and common sense apply to the comic book world all the time? The answer is obviously no...they only apply as much as they need to in order to keep the story from being completely unbelievable.



I dare you to post a picture of your more than likely fat ass. To further humiliate me with your picture? From what nonsense you have been spewing, you clearly dont have any idea how to build a nice body, so I'm sure your picture will humiliate nothing. Also you're bigger than me? Why is that, because you weigh more than 153lbs? Even someone as misinformed and generally moronic as you should know that weighing more doesn't mean you are bigger...

And telling me to lay off the steroids is the most misinformed statement you could ever give. You might as well have used a racial slur. People like you further the idea that all huge bodybuilders are on steroids when in fact several all natural bodybuilders have made it to the 260lb mark off season, capable of lifting weights such as 500+ on bench press, 600+ on deadlift, and 500 on squat.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now for other people I'm willing to have a civil discussion with.

Daredevil was instructed by stick aand as someone else posted, even stick has tremendous respect for wolverine...The hand has on more than one occasion mentioned Logan's name with respect.


Anyone thinkin Davedevil and Elektra can hand wolverine his ass....could you explain ur reasoning? I too think it's awesome that daredevil's agility mimics that of spider-man....But without Spidey's strength, how is Daredevil going to defeat an opponent who has more stamina, fights more ruthlessly, and better trained as far as martial arts? (Wolverine)

"Sure post a picture of your fatass, you're better off lying and posting someone else."

such an assumption but i will if i must.
you said it yourself cap can press 800 at his best maybe a little more but not much more. Comic book world or not, batman ain't putting up 1000 pds. just give me ONE.....just ONE, example where he does, and I'll digress. Until then shut the hell up. you have no right to call me an idiot because I have enough logic to say that batman isn't benching 1000 pounds. he's a normal guy and has to work out vigorously to even maintain his peakest of peak status. The entirety of his training style isn't about lifting weights so stop acting like it is.

The steroid thing was a joke connecting you're muscular physique to
your obvious anger issues, get over it.

..." Now let me ask you this? In the real world...if someone lean can bench press 500lbs...is it so ridiculous to think that Batman can press 1000lbs while being lean? Is it?"

yes. it is.
While i agree that comic book land is rather illogical at times, this is just ridiculous. Batman doesn't take steroids or muscle enhancers so he's not putting up 1,000 pounds, it's that simple. really why would you continue to argue such a logical fallacy.
1 example,,,that's all i ask.

Batmans physique is well beyond any person in the real world, even if they ARE taking steroids. I must admit, your posts are getting better...they're starting to make sense. So I'll level with you.


I cannot find one example in the comic books where batman sits down and bench presses 1000lbs. I cannot. I also cannot find one where batman presses 300lbs...But I know he can do that.

So instead, i pose this question... How many times has batman performed feats of upperbody strength that even a man who could bench 1000lbs could not do?


Hell, I'll even go for a low blow. Have you heard of the mother who lifted a car in order to get her child to safety? The wonders that adrenaline can do in real people who are not enhanced....and yet you're unwilling to accept that batman could press 1000lbs.


Anyway, comics are stories...stories are not about concrete numbers, so I'll try to relate this another way. If loeb wrote a comic where batman and superman were in the gym and batman was like "i'm going for a new max, spot me clark"? And we see batman pressing 1050lbs on the bench and then clark spotting with his pinky...

Now a dialogue ensues... "Wow batman, you're stronger than I would have guessed" and Bruce replies

"Civilian powerlifters put up this much, you think I'd slack?"

What would you think then? The core point is that, that is a very possible situation.

Having adrenaline and doing an otherwise impossible feat is one thing, but doing it consistently is another. Batman is going to use his wit, his fighting capabilities, and his gadgetry when he goes out to apprehend a criminal or take down an opponent, so weightlighting capabilities might be irrelevent.

Whenever I think about weightligting things beyond 1/4 ton, I always think of that picture of the guy (real) who carried so much weight, his legs gave out from the strain and broke his legs awkwardly. Give me my 10 pound bowling ball.

lol.

batman ain't putting up 1000 pounds like it or love it.

Batman has struggled to lift a 450lb boulder.

Without Wolverine's healing factor/claws/adamantium, Batman thoroughly trashes him.

I think he still has his senses and healing factor though. otherwise I agree.

Even his healing factor has been wildly inconsistent. NOW people say he is immune to poison (unless he has been retconned, that is incorrect (perhaps the writer at that time gave him an immunity)), but he has always been vulnerable to poisoning.

Ehh, his healing factor does not work instantly. It takes time...and it is inferior to Hulk's.

Which takes time.

Not certain how much his senses will help him in close-range h2h though, if at all.

His healing factor works on energy as I stated before, if he's running on decent amounts of energy his healing factor will be kicking it into high gear (assuming he's well fed and rested before the fight) with bone, bone wolverine's healing factor is in an overdrive mode (the only way to kill him being decapitation)
Wolverine has actually been shwon to be rather immune to poision once he drank some poision that was enough to take down 10 elephants or something to that effect. But has you stated it's inconsistant. the speed of his healing factor is entirely circumstantial. In fights with the hulk his muscles were turned into jelly by hulk blows and healed by the time hulk hit him again.

That's not true.

He was fully rested in Uncanny #173 and was knocked out by poison in his tea.

Hell, in New X-Men on Genosha he took multiple rounds in his chest/face and it took a bit for him to heal all of them.

When Mystique was training in Arcade's Murderworld they listed his jugular/carotid as a vulnerable area because it was not protected by his "unbreakable skeleton."

It has to be the writer's interpretation, but he has been most often portrayed as having to take time to heal from his wounds.

During the Mutant Massacre (shoot, what was their collective named? Arclight, Riptide, Vertigo, and I am missing two) when he stabbed Rachel through her heart, she later TK picked him up, burned him up a little, and dropped in onto a rr track with an oncoming train.

He couldn't even move out of the way under his own power. Kitty Pryde had to save him.

No way he heals instantly or even close to it.

"He was fully rested in Uncanny #173 and was knocked out by poison in his tea."

yeah back in the day. the only way i figure, is he must be immune to some poisions but not others (like the dredd pirate roberts, maybe part of his weapon x training i don't know). Seriously though I could go find that comic and post pics if you want. He just picked his teeth after sucking down some poision.

"Hell, in New X-Men on Genosha he took multiple rounds in his chest/face and it took a bit for him to heal all of them."

yeah and in wolverine 1 he took 100 armed pirates shooting him and cutting him and wasn't even slowed down.

"When Mystique was training in Arcade's Murderworld they listed his jugular/carotid as a vulnerable area because it was not protected by his "unbreakable skeleton."

i don't doubt it, he's got plenty of unprotected areas like his nut sack, but so does bats. what was your point here?

"It has to be the writer's interpretation, but he has been most often portrayed as having to take time to heal from his wounds. "

i'd say that's debateable.

"No way he heals instantly or even close to it."

perhaps not (and i never said he did), but under certain conditions it seems pretty damned close.

It's just a matter of inconsistancy in the writing, but there are more or less equal numbers of examples to support both sides.

heh I'll drop it, since my point has always been wolverine is gonna beat batman. But I can't pick up a 120lb boulder if it's shaped funny but I can definitely bench 275lbs...

>>>yeah back in the day.

"New X-Men" written first by Grant Morrison is "back in the day?" No.

>>>the only way i figure, is he must be immune to some poisions but not others

Doubt it. Writers simply have creative (limited) liberty. That is why you see Juggernaut inconsistently written. Punisher stalemated Wolverine before. The next writer had Wolvie win in a curbstomp because he HATES Punisher. I really hope no one is naive enough to think that character bias does not exist.

>>>i don't doubt it, he's got plenty of unprotected areas like his nut sack, but so does bats. what was your point here?

If he "healed instantly" a throat slash would not even be an option, now would it? That's why they went for the throat.

>>>i'd say that's debateable.

Feel free. Guarantee you that for every "instant heal" or "ultra quick heal" reference you can find I will find 7-10 instances where he has been out for the count or has taken time to heal. GENERALLY SPEAKING (and this does not include those sporadic instances where a writer tweaks his healing factor for his individual purposes) the smaller/less serious the wound, the quicker the heal. That' been the case up until very recently.

Hulk does not even heal that quickly (blink of an eye) and his healing factor is superior.

>>>perhaps not (and i never said he did)

???

Sounded as if you were implying it here:

"yeah and in wolverine 1 he took 100 armed pirates shooting him and cutting him and wasn't even slowed down."

>>>heh I'll drop it, since my point has always been wolverine is gonna beat batman. But I can't pick up a 120lb boulder if it's shaped funny but I can definitely bench 275lbs...

If you read the comic book you will see that it was not the shape of the boulder, it was the weight. Heh. Not sure what you were trying there.

Again with the "How strong is Logan's healing factor?" debate!

Who cares!?

In a hand-to-hand fight, Batman would never be able to inflict
on Wolverine any kind of bodily damage that would require
serious healing time.

Let me repeat what I said earlier: If Batman can crack a couple
of Logan's ribs, then Logan can crack 5 or 6 of Wayne's, then
let's see Batman's normal healing factor do him any good! And
I'm not even factoring Wolverine's claws, since I believe he
can beat Batman without them.

Oh, about Logan healing from poisen or infections, people
seem to be forgeting when his healing factor over-came the
alien Brood infection in him. That was pretty quick as well.

>>>In a hand-to-hand fight, Batman would never be able to inflict
on Wolverine any kind of bodily damage that would require
serious healing time.

???? A broken leg? Neck? Arm? Shoulder? Helloooooo?

>>>If Batman can crack a couple
of Logan's ribs, then Logan can crack 5 or 6 of Wayne's, then
let's see Batman's normal healing factor do him any good!

Batman is SUPPOSED to be the superior martial artist. Is he even really worried about Wolverine lucking up and hitting him flush? *shrug*

>>>Oh, about Logan healing from poisen or infections, people
seem to be forgeting when his healing factor over-came the
alien Brood infection in him. That was pretty quick as well.

"The Goldilocks Syndrome" was the story arc I think? Uncanny #167 (first comic book I ever read) or so? Not certain what you mean by "pretty quick."

Let's go ONE issue backward when The Brood Queen hit him with a jolt of poison so powerful he was woozy for the rest of the comic book? He said, paraphrase, "That jolt almost overtaxed my system."

Anywho, this is what I mean by "inconsistent writing." He fought Archangel to a stalemate (another subpar showing against a subpar h2h combatant) and was tired as hell afterward. He ALSO fought Omega Red and his "death factor" for 15 or so hours, IIRC.