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*sighs* dumbness
there is NOTHING wrong with homosexuals being in church nor with them being priests

You obviously don't read much of the KMC General Discussion forum, do you?

Actually think every church has to decide for themselves

I agree with the thread starter.....How can anyone serve God in such an imp role by starting out in sin....yes all sin and all have to answer, but the message of salvation gets skewed if people already see their leader blatantly doing wrong

We won' t mention the pedophile priests

Priests of straight and homosexual persuasion?

Great. Now that's two kinds of priest I don't listen to.

-AC

Trust me the catholic church won't let gays in.

Heh, good point.

Ahh great we first have pedophiles and now gays why is church becoming sexual perversion class?

You go to church to listen and learn the teaching of Jesus. So you're going to deny the word of God to others because of their sexual preferences? Not allowing gays in church is an even worse sin! Uh-uh! I don't think Jesus would like that.

You can't judge others only Jesus can judge YOU. So you better show care for your brothers and sisters.

Yeah but a gay priest is kind of contradicting the bible.

Only Jesus can decide what is wrong and what is right. Not you and certainly not me. And not allowing gays to listen or preach the word of God is far more sinful.

It is alright that gays are allowed to be priests... But they must never perform any homosexuality... It is clearly stated in the Bible, and for them to ignore the Bible, they can't be allowed to be priests...

becoming?

that book contradict itself all the time so gay priest is jsut in the spirit of this book of contradictions

oh ok, so its not ok to be a gay priest
but its ok to be a closet gay priest?
puh lease

Well I would say first of all being Homosexual in mind is ok, even though churches still have to decide for themselves if they want homosexual priests if they don'T well, they can decide for themselfs who can teach there people. On the other hand for the catholic church being gay well at least practicing gay is not okjay anyway since Cathiolic Priest shouldn't have sex.

I don't really understand why gays would want to be part of a church that claims their sexual preference is a sin. Or do they just choose to conveniently ignore parts of the bible? If so then they're getting the hang of being a Christian pretty quick.

By becoming a priest, one is suppose to know what they are suppose to bear with... especially a gay... They SHOULD know not to perform homosexuality..FOR IT IS STATED IN THE BIBLE..

P.S. you are becoming pathetic A4E

homosexual or not, the celibacy rule still stands (as dumb as it is).

that means no practising homo or heterosexuals...

u dont know me, so dont talk.

and what kind of an ........... are u?
so u saying that if a homosexual is a priest he shouldnt tell anyone hes gay??

What are you talking about? Jesus said that homosexuality is WRONG.
If a practicing gay man is a pastor/priest he is directly contradicting what is says in the bible.
There was that dealio with a homosexual becoming a pastor in a Presbyterian church.
I'm just wondering- when he is teaching and stuff does he just ignore the scriptures that say that homosexuality is wrong?

Not allowing a homosexual man to become a leader of a church is not a sin. I think that it's ok to let a homosexual into church to hear the good news and salvation that Jesus offers because all humans are entitled to that. But to let one become an authority in the church is NOT what Jesus would want because it would make the message that Christianity teaches obsolete and hypocritical.

first of all i don't see the point in the celibacy rule, but its there and has to be respected if a person decides to become a priest.

i said practising, but i just don't see why thety'd have to announce that they're gay if their sexuality is of no consequence in a job like this...

rotflmao!! i was talkin to the other dude peter hes an arse!! lol

my apologies

so what if gays want to be in the church?
let them.
it IS their right as human beings.
your god created every man, woman, freak, child, transvestite, gay, lesbian and transgender in his image, so shut the f.u.c.k up.

lol

Who me?

yeah pretty much lol

well if you have enough iq to understand what i read it makes sense so i dont see what the persons problem is

What?? Me and pr1983 we both made the same point... what's the difference between us both??

The problem is you... Perhaps you are gay yourself, and I accidentally insulted you... my apologies..

yeah um not really

hey dumba.ss. Guess what. I wasnt talking to you.

Stop with the name calling!

yes, mother.

Uum, ok, I'll switch from ''mother'' to ''mean motherator''

Another name calling and you're getting few days off the board, ok? Excellent!

Alright, class, are we going to have to start specifying exactly who we're insulting before we do each post to avoid this kind of mis-direction??

Also, by passing the sensor is a bannable offence, so dont do that again either.

Great! you are all very mature right now, none the less, every church has to decide for themselves what peopled they want to teach there people. there is, wasn't and never will be a right to be a catholic priest.

Initial post had no name calling.
he posted a controversial topic. I replied with an opinion.

with the exception of the censorship there were no broken rules.
so, i shall be editing it.

bah. nevermind. it wont let me edit it, since it's been over 15 minutes.

dumbass is a name calling, this is bypassing the sensor as well as hostility.



The same name calling warning goes for everoyne in this thread.

as i said. i was going to edit it, but it wont let me.
my apologies. i will refrain in the future.

If scripture says that the gay lifestyle is wrong and a priest of pastor is representing scripture, then he is violating what he's supposed to be teaching. It's worse than a drunk teaching AA, or a child abuser teaching child care...It's an opposite.

It can't go together.

debbiejo.. your words flow smoothly... too bad a person like A4E can't understand it...

So you heard it from Jesus own mouth? No, you must have read it from the NT. That means that some homophobic disciple or some priest coulda have change or re-writting the message. But since that we aren't talking about alterations in the bible I'll go back to the comment of judging others. And since you pointed out a contradiction of a gay man teaching the scriptures of the bible let me remind you that such case isn't new. Because Popes (who were not gay) were engaging in holy wars a few centuries ago. The message of Jesus was love and care for your brothers. Obviously those popes were contradicting the scriptures.



Is not about leadership. That's what you guys don't get. The only leader is Jesus. And Jesus is the only one that can judge and lead the believers. What you guys should be doing is spreading love and concern for your fellow man. Not exclude him/her because of his/her sexual preferences. When Jesus return he will judge you and me and everyone else. How is going to feel like when you're standing before the Holy judge and he reads to you the charges of not loving or caring for your fellow man/woman? And even worse charge will be that discrimiated and didn't allow your fellow man to read the teachings of the holy father? When Jesus returns (according to the NT) he will be judge/jury/ and to a certain extreme an executioner.

Shut the F up you carvianl junkie

Echuu has is points..we all do and we should appreicate it and not agrue

I meant has

Homosexuals that go to church, IMO, are wasting their time. That's alls I have to say. Attempting to become ordained is even loftier.

Keep in mind, WD, Christians in general are only spreading Christs word, which says to love the sinner but denounce the sin. Regardless of how outdated some of the preachings may be, homosexuals don't belong in the church, and it's been like that for years, because homosexuals lord approves of what they do. Christ never did, so we're clearly serving a different Lord.

Sexual orientation is not a predictor of how well anyone may answer a divine call!

I dont see how a priest can teach people to follow the bible if they are not following it themselves, it wouldnt make any sense, its exactly the same as allowing someone who is currently murdering people become a priest.

All scripture was "God breathed."
Almost all the crusades were horrible and unnecessary and I am not condoning them. I was not around then so don't make it seem like I was responsible or had anything to do with them.
God's word is what judges us. As Christians we are supposed to be following his word.


1Co 6:9-10 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

1 Cor. 6:12-13 "For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

Screw the church, they allow child rapists to be their leaders.

Churches are just ways for a religion to get money.

According to the records of cooperating dioceses and religious congregations, from 1950 to 2002 more than four thousand priests, deacons and religious were accused of abusing close to eleven thousand individuals. Well over half a billion dollars had already been spent to settle claims made against the church.

Serious failing was the bishops and superiors their determination to avoid involving the criminal justice system, even when it was clear that the actions in question might actually mandate this. Efforts to report abuse were systematically sidetracked and when this did not work there were settlements made that called for an effective vow of silence on the part of those abused.

The hypocrisy!

I don't agree at all with what the catholics did and I am not a catholic.
In the bible it never says for church leaders to be celebate. The catholics came up with this but I don't think it is plausible to require them to remain celebate because of their sexual urges. They should be allowed to get married.

totally agree

Yes..there gay...yes its wrong...but there human beings...god will forgive them....hes loves them like everyone of us....they have a right to go to church

The catholic church is quite clear that priests have to be celibate, but it has also been made clear that celibacy is not necessary.

In the 1967 encyclical Sacerdotalis Caelibatus, written to reinforce the "Sacredness of Celibacy" in the face of growing calls to rethink the traditional requirement, Pope Paul VI explained that while celibacy is a "dazzling jewel" it is not: "...required by the nature of the priesthood itself. This is clear from the practice of the early church itself and the traditions of the Eastern churches."

There is nothing about the nature of the priesthood which makes celibacy necessary or essential.

yes i think it should be there choice

^think

How can opposites agree?

Life is something god gave you..he put them on here for a reason....Gay people know what thur doing is wrong but its there choice....

And why exactly is it wrong?

we can agree to disagree

no i just said that the priests should have their own choice

Because an old book says so! Duh!

well for me its cuz it says it in the bible

but if you dont believe in it then your gonna have to make your own choices

it also is kinda unnatural-like you cant really have a kid biologically if yer gay but thats off topic

I wanted to hear it from Gisele

Give me a valid argument beside the "because the bible says so".

Gays that go to church love god and thats why. They should have the choice. Love is Love!

go to my previous posts and the scriptures are right there

Love is a strong feeling and they love god and god loves the..there humans

And here is the perfect reason why I'm not a Bible quoter. I never said you were responsible for any of the massacres that those Bishops committed while they were on power centuries ago I merely was pointing out that if the church can allowed murdering popes to butcher others then why not let gays in? Heck! They don't threaten anybody with their sexual preferences.

You clearly said "As for Christians we are supposed to be following his word" Great! then the church shouldn't descriminate agasin't another believer. Specially if this believer is gay and wants to preach the word of God.

But going back the Bible quoter thingy. The main reason why I don't quote the Bible is rather simple. Somewhere near the book of Revelations the apostle clearly states that anyone adding words to the prophecy and the book that tells the second coming of Jesus will be punish. You may follow the teachings of the holy book, but no one gave you authority to impose who gets to teach the word or who gets to preach the word.

She wanted a reason OTHER then "because the bible said so"

Gays are humans and they should not be treated any other way

disgust

But that applies to everybody. Who are you to say who is a sinner and who is not? Again only Jesus can judge you and me and also everyone else. They do belong in the church and as loving, and caring, and also Forgiving Christians you guys should welcome them with open arms.

"it also is kinda unnatural-like you cant really have a kid biologically if yer gay but thats off topic"

It's not unnatural, it's unconventional. If of course you're referring to anal sex.

Men and women do it, it's not just gays. If they COULD have kids they probably would, but they can't so they make use of what they have.

They're not doing anything wrong. Jesus himself hung with alot of guys, liked to trade kisses. Who's to say what went down in that cave.

-AC

"Forgiving Christians"

WTF, this is the biggest oxymoron I've ever heard.

The Christians claim to be forgiving in their preachings. So if they are soooo forgiving they'll forget the sins of the so-called sinners and let them in.

Yeah but that's what a majority of them would have us believe when the basic message is that eternal hell awaits anyone who questions God's infinite love.

-AC

I' m still waiting.

Why do you keep bringing up these crusades? I already said I don't agree with all of what they did and I'm not catholic.

Those scriptures say that we can judge those within the church- if there is a gay in the church that is practicing homosexuality it isn't wrong for a chrictian to point out those verses and say what he is doing is wrong- if he is trying to change his ways thats different. I don't think that you can be a practicing believer and homosexual at the same time- they are direct contradiction of each other.
God has called each christian to a different ministry whether it be preaching or teaching.

you dont understand- if they are turning their ways around they will be forgiving and they will forget their sins but not if they continue to walk in it in ignorance

Look --- It's either left or right...



You can not agree with the opposite.

With the exception of some verses, the bible never explicitly condemns being gay or lesbian.

but its still does condemn them- even if the verses are only a few

There might be thousands of priests.. but there are few great priests...
No human is infallible, but it is their best as priests to keep their role as priests... You can't judge a human being from others, just because others are what they are...

Then those scriptures shall you for judging your gay brothers and sisters. And God did not called each Christian to a different ministry. Your leaders like Martin Luther and Joseph Smith (among a few) made their own versions of Christianity and thought their own version of the bible. God didn't separate them....they separated themselves.



And who are you to say who is the ignorant or who is the sinful? In God's eyes we are all the same. And we are all sinners. Again neither you or I can say who will be forgive and who will not be forgiving. Is Jesus call in the end and not the believers opinion.

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the lord thy god: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates.

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.

And so on.

If someone wants to be consistent about his observance of biblical restrictions and prohibitions, then he must also preach and practice abstinence from many other activities that are commonplace in our society. With a few exceptions, most people are not willing to apply the morality of the bible to their lives today.

ive tried and tried to get my points over but this is getting ridiculous

I am not going to judge a homosexual outside of the church- but if he/she wants to become a christian they will have to give up homosexuality.

Jesus can only judge us as you said, well, Jesus leaved something behind, and that's the Bible... Those are his words...

Oh I get your point. What you don't get is that why are you trying to get into your gay Christian brother/sister private life? If a gay christian has sex with another gay than this his private life. In the end of times when Jesus return he will the one making the judgement. Until then none of you can judge or shall tell your gay christian brother/sister what to do and say.

If he/she wants to become a christian? Then perhaps the ritual of baptism should be abolished out of precaution?

yes yes- some things change over time though

women were stoned if caught in adulutery but jesus says otherwise now- women are much more independent and educated than they were back then- they usually had a husband to speak for them but now they dont need one

that sabbath day one- the pharisees tried to use that one on jesus also- but he changed that too

It is for none of us to judge... Echuu was just making a point there by refering to what the Bible wrote down...

if i know about it, it isnt really private anymore is it? im just gonna keep going back to the scripture that says we can judge another believer whithin the church- the reason it says that is so that we dont cause others to stumble.
It wouldnt be a good witness for the church to have a homosexual that is professing to be a christian because it says in the bible that homoesexuals wont go to heaven.
I know that if i were becoming a christian i would wonder why they would tolerate something God says shouldnt be tolerated. It basically defeats the purpose of christianity all together

And why would that be?

That's fine I'm not judging him. I'm merely pointing out that Christianity claims it welcomes everyone into their faith.....why they can't welcome the homosexual is something that puzzles me.

the only reason that they couldnt is because christianity directly teaches that homosexuality i wrong

these two things contradict each other thats why

it really makes so much sense if you think about it

It is not born homosexual that is considered a sin, it is homosexuality...
And it is stated in the Bible, for those who are christians, they are suppose to follow the Bible right? Regardless you are a priest or whatsoever...

"It is not born homosexual that is considered a sin, it is homosexuality..."

Don't..........quite understand what you're trying to say.

I'm willing to bet half the time priests probably don't believe what they're telling you.

-AC

There are many things that christianity teaches. Among them are tolerance and to forgive others who do wrong. It really would be much better if they can set aside their phobias and tried to understand each other as human beings and also as brothers and sisters

jesus wasnt sent to the earth to tolerate sin- he was sent to offer a way out which is forgiveness; he forgives and forgives but the person must repent wholeheartedly-

the woman caught in adultery- he said your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more

agree echuu....totally...Gays should have the choose to go to church

"Gays in the Church"....
Just from the title, I can tell that this thread is nothing but smut.

It really makes no sense to me why a gay person would want to associate themselves with any Christian church, let alone join in its administrative duties.

It's like a black person joining the KKK.

So whats the difference with the anti-gay statement? non! Thats ould and outdated too.

Alto I do agree with Tex, IMO Religion is crap anyways....

But In catholocism, Priest should be neither gay or straight, so thats really a moot point, but with Protostins (Sp??) They should not hold a double standard. I could make a case about Jesus being gay...

I totally 100% agree.

True. And while I dislike it, and think that the whole "but the bible says homosexuality is wrong" is wrong (damn the Church institution) there are rules, and would be difficult for the Church to maintain its stance on homosexuality with Gay priests.... bah, its all so foolish, if a gay person believes in God, and wishes to dedicate himself to his service, he should be allowed, and besides, it becomes moot anyway for those denomination that still enforce celibacy. After all, the Church aims to save souls, it seems so self defeating to then drive away members of a group who it seems would be happy to work for the Church (considering the concerns that are rising as numbers of new priests are falling rapidly)

we have gay priests in norway, and before the church condemning homosexuality it may look into the possibility of what relations jesus and his 12? followers might have practised. (I acknowledge the fact that a man called jesus or something like that stired up some hell around Israel around 2000 +- or so years ago, its the divine thing I dont buy.)

So basically what Im saying is that I think jesus had sexual relations with one, or more, of his disciples

Man-oh-man-oh-man, your initial insinuation and your ultimately overt oration are pieces of a post that I consider to be the most spendid one I have read all day! I love your work, keep it up!

I second it - Jesus loved boys and so did John the Baptist, so why don't they play a more prominent role in the modern church?

Give it up! There is no convincing those who believe that they speak in the words of god. As soon as they are gods themeselves, they'll understand.

sure Im gay
j/k
dude that is not the point, he did not call me pathetic.

and tex it is so not the same, not all christians believe HS is wrong, so bad example

yeah i know what is with that?
first they want to express their love to each other,
and then they actually want a job? shocking
outrageous!!!

lol nice one misha

Yea seriously I totally agree, whats next?
-they want to vote?
-send there children to the same school as our good white straight children?

Can you belive that tsss.

barock urs wasnt as funny, lol jjust kidding

Well IO am not misha but I am trying

This is not about trying to be the funniest

Yes it is

lol i know storm it was a simple joke

i dont understand what people have against gays
imagine if you knew this guy and you two had been best friends for years! he was like family to you - he'd always been there for you through all the times of your life....then one day you find out he's gay....then what do you? ditch him because he likes guys? it's just stupid - as if it changes who they are....if anything it makes them nicer and funnier....i know im just going on stereotypes here, but i know a few gays and all of them are very nice and very funny!

I have to agree wiv Misha here

I also agree with misha, plus if he tells u that the friendship would actually grow stronger, since he can now be totally open to u

I'm against it, and I doubt it will ever happen.

you're against what Kosta?

HS goin 2 church I guess

PS: im too lazy to write homosexuals is too long!!

Priests aren't allowed to have sex (atleast not in the catholic church) so there it shouldn't even be an issue

thanx fire.

unless you were an immature homeaphobic (sp?) and you thought that your friend would start liking you!

i knew this guy at my old school who, when this gay guy would walk into the room (we were in year 8, he was in year 11), he would say to all his friends 'quick, this guys gay, hide!' i mean come on what makes him think he's good enough for this guy to like him

lol, and I agree with fire, they're not allowed to have a romantic relationship so y make a problem?

well a lot of ppl will always be scared of what their brais can not comprehend misha

There is nothing to comprehed about it at all.

well ask some religion nuts they don't get/comprehend it

I know, there's nothing to understand, there's just something to accept

no theres nothing - its just a guy liking a guy instead of a girl .... i find nothing strange about it at all ... apart from the whole 'why would someone like guys when theres girls' just kiddin!

well not everyone thinks like us

if only cry

lol :P

lol misha Im sure they'd change their mind if u'd make a strike

well i can be rather stubborn at times

"If everybody is thinking the same then someone isn't thinking."-Mike Patton.

If a friend of mine came out and told me he was gay I'd have no problem. As long as they don't force their beliefs on me (same with anyone) then I'm cool. The only difference is that you couldn't talk about girls in the same way anymore, which I hardly do with my friends anyway.

-AC

thats not true....im a strait girl and i talk about sexy girls...and cars...bag

Yeah but since when did you and I hang out?

Looking before leaping .

-AC

Fire - I'm against gays being priests.

i was just saying.....you think a gay person wouldnt be able to talk about girls in the same way as a straight person....im dont like girls in that way but i still talk about how hot they can be and all.
i mean i dont talk about girls as guys do but....well im still a girl, i still have my pride tongue10

Being that would be inpossible for gays to be in a church because according to the church they are living a very sinful life.And second to be a priest you have to avoid life's tempetions and marriage.
JM

"i mean i dont talk about girls as guys do but....well im still a girl, i still have my pride"

Exactly. Because you're not attracted to them. So you went against my point just to agree with it .

Also Jackie, since when did priests avoid temptation? They preach the bible out of one side of their mouth while performing oral sex with the other. I don't think most priests believe half the shit they say.

-AC

cry dont prove me wrong when im trying to prove me right

The cities Sodom and Gummorrah was destroyed by God because they were homosexual cities. Sodomy is a sin, pure and simple, and you can't be a representative of God and lead a life that totally contradicts his rules. You can not worship any God and make up your own rules. I know how it is with Catholic faith, the priest cant be married and cant have sex, but with anglican and protistant and orthadox priests are allowed to have a family, and in thhat instant being a priest of one of those faiths would be unaceptable.

Mayybe I missunderstand you, but that doesnt justify a priest being gay. And priests that are known and exposed to perform sinful acts like that are cast from the church.

so I guess the U.S is about to b destroyed lol and france