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Is there surch thing as organizied chaos?
Isn't it one or the other?

The world revolvs around chaos, without it we would have nothing.

chaos exists, but it can only exist through lack of control

Yes... my life!

those are opposed terms....you can say you have controlled chaos..but not organised.
it's like saying you have a black white horse

You can have controlled chaos in that you can keep it to a certain level. Like controlled rebellion.

Organised chaos can exist in that the chaos coming to fruition is orchestrated. After that it becomes controlled.

-AC

I don't think there is such a thing as organized chaos. I think that you can have contained chaos, like the banks of a river or a fire in a fireplace. But, I don't think there is such a thing as organized chaos, that's a contradiction in terms.

I think there can be organised chaos, just depends on your perception. To others it might seem like complete chaos, but you know exactly what is going on and where everything is therefore it would be organised but also chaotic

Chaos is random it can never be organised

Well good..now I know for sure...

I just love that Adam on "Myth Busters." He's the one that said organized chaos... Of course he was joking...Just thought I'd throw it out there to get all your opinions...They mean soooo much to me ya know.

errr.....?

We are living in it right now. Organized chaos is order within chaos and chaos within order, two sides of a coin that serve a purpose to confront our lives, living in a confused world where we know nothng but think we know everything. That is organizaed chaos.

whoooooo. I like that.

loks like everyone has the same opinion

Chaos has always been ; its masked by the affordability to turn your head away from it

by the definitions of the words organised chaos is an oxymoron

I wish that was deep. But it isn't. Welcome to the rest of the world. Reality isn't subjective.

Isn't now? Reality is subjective to one's own perspective. No one else has the same perspective. If reality was one dimensional we'd have organization. But we don't.

That in itself is a theoretical statement.

I touched on it before. What if every reality we see is different but it only seem to be interacting with the same one because it's all we can perceive ourselves.

It has nothing to do with organised chaos.

It's simple: Can you organise chaos? No. Can you organise chaos HAPPENING? Yes.

-AC

Isnt that a bit of an oxymoron?

By happening I meant, in progress.

If it's happening you can't really organise, just control.

So I guess you can organise the fruition, then control the proceedings.

-AC

the nwo have been resposible for all the major incidents for the past 100+ years *fades away into the darkness*

But if chaos is "out of control", How can you organize it? Your argument doesn't make sense.

There is such thing as partial control.

Like controlled rebellion. It makes perfect sense.

-AC

Come on man, you can't control chaos. If you do/can, then it isn't chaos.

You don't believe that chaos outbreaking in society and kept at a certain level is not controlled chaos?

Maybe I shouldn't have said "controlled". Manipulated is better.

-AC

You're deluding yourself. You can not control what is out of control.

That's why I used the term 'contained' chaos. A tempest in a tea pot kinda thing.

"Contained"? How can you contain what's out-of-control?

You're looking at it from a one dimesional point of view. Look at my examples. "Contained" is relevant if you do.

Chaos and organised are absolute opposites.

Okay. Here's how I see it. If you want to contain chaos you eliminate it, therefore there is no chaos. But in doing so you could escalate things. The ill-war in Iraq is a perfect example. You can not have it both ways.

Strands of uncontrolable elements can exist inside of the more organized and controlled world.

Its a paradox, so no.

Its like silent screams. You cannot scream in silence and you cannot control chaos - chaos = lack of control, just like scream = sound.

think of protests, they try to cause chaos, but they have a organised date and venue, organised and chaos are complete opposites but that doesn't mean you cant do both at the same time, thats like saying you cant raise one hand and lower the other

Are you saying all protests are an element of chaotic movement? Isn't the purpose of a protest a way of trying to establish a way to prevent chaos? And organised protest tries to stop chaotic movement against others. It's only when there is opposition against organization that chaos occurs.

a distraction then, say a man is robbing a bank with a crowd outside, he places a sniper on the roof, he shoots someone and the crowd and the crowd gets chaotic, someone has organised that chaos so it is organised chaos indisputably.

Definition of chaos: "Chaos is the breakdown of predictability, or a state of disorder (cf Chaos Discussion, also Chaos is Everywhere Discussion)."

now does this not prove chaos cannever be organized, this is how i see it: Chaos is random this very planet could be destroyed any second, every second a planet somewere is being destroyed at random mainly by black holes, black holes are very random nobody knows how they work or why but one day one will hit out planet, the theory is that it could literaly be ANY second, so how can chaos be organised?
To be organised it would have to be being controled by someone in my opinion the only way chaos can be controled is by a higher denty (a god) but i do not bileve in that stuff.
Even chaos that humnity thinks it controles it does not for example one of the bigges formes of chaos in this day and age are bomb now a bomb can be set to blow up a builfing but it can not be controled how the only way to find out is to activate it.

No, it means the man has orchastrated the beginning of a chaotic movement, thus distrubing an organized moment. But I see how you might get confused.

That's just silly.

As for someone promting a riot, that's not chgaos. Chaos is what ensues. I mean, if your scenario played itself out, there's nothing th egunman or organizer can do to contro lthe crowd after it goes insane. And my example of contained chaos still stands, using your example. Let's say that that demonstration doesn't spill over into the next city block. Well, that can be contained chaos. But, the guy that planned it...even if he planned the results...can't predict how that crowd is going to react....or even act.

Chaos - The confused, unorganized condition or mass of matter before the creation of distinct and orderly forms.

Now that answer is chaotic in its own rite.

Originally posted by peterKSL
Chaos - The confused, unorganized condition or mass of matter before the creation of distinct and orderly forms.

See, I think that my notion of contained chaos is well reflected in your definition. Maybe I haven't been very clear in what I'm saying. Take a snow glode for example. If you shake up the snow globe, then there is chaos inside of this snow globe. You can't determine or control where the snow flakes in the snow globe are going to land or even the path their going to take to get there. They just swirle around inside of the snow globe and settle where ever they will. Contained chaos is th a same thing.

But this idea of organized or controlled chaos would have to mean that you knew where and what path those snowflakes were going to take to reach their destination.

^ it's not my defination, I got it from the web... I should have quoted it.. was lazy to do it...

Originally posted by peterKSL
^ it's not my defination, I got it from the web... I should have quoted it.. was lazy to do it...

But if you quoted it, then you have to agree with it.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
See, I think that my notion of contained chaos is well reflected in your definition. Maybe I haven't been very clear in what I'm saying. Take a snow glode for example. If you shake up the snow globe, then there is chaos inside of this snow globe. You can't determine or control where the snow flakes in the snow globe are going to land or even the path their going to take to get there. They just swirle around inside of the snow globe and settle where ever they will. Contained chaos is th a same thing.

But this idea of organized or controlled chaos would have to mean that you knew where and what path those snowflakes were going to take to reach their destination.


I believe you're controdicting yourself with chaos and contained chaos. And in the example of the snow globe -- this "chaos" with the snowflakes is a poor example because the chaos is happening in a controlled environment. There is no other place for the snowflakes to go but to the bottom of the globe. For true chaos to take place there must be no controlled elements harbouring it. The snow globe is a controlled element. Thus there is organization and no chaos.

Chaos cannot be contained, for then it ceases to be chaos - chaos is chaos through and through.

Okay, how about my earlier example of a river after it rains?

Chaos and order are relative concepts. Who is to say what is 'ordered' and what is 'chaotic'?

ordered and chaotic are both words created by humans, they understand it, and thus they should be able to define it...

Anyway, I agree with chaos and order are relative concepts...

yes there can be organized choas. The most visible proof is the Universe.
It appears to be random cataclysmic acts erupting without any order but within that seemingly choatic franzy lies a certain order and law that these phenomenon follow.

That's interesting. Could it be like the human body? It's all orderly and seemingly symetric, but inside there's chaos happenin.

LordFear, debbiejo... VERY good examples.

There could be cause for altering my argument of there be no such thing as organized chaos. Think outside the box...

I have the perfect example of "organized Chaos" from a book I'm reading right now...

It seem that plasma is a gas containing a high density of electrons and positive ions, atoms that have a positive charge. It's been found that once they are in a plasma, they stopped behaving like individuals and started behaving as if were part of a larger interconnected whole.

They were individuals acting in a random pattern, but as a whole, they were well organized.

Tah Dah.....

In my physics class or is it chem?
Anway they listed the many states of matter but my teacher always referred as plasma an if if possibility. Scientists are still unsure they say!!!

Originally posted by debbiejo
I have the perfect example of "organized Chaos" from a book I'm reading right now...

It seem that plasma is a gas containing a high density of electrons and positive ions, atoms that have a positive charge. It's been found that once they are in a plasma, they stopped behaving like individuals and started behaving as if were part of a larger interconnected whole.

They were individuals acting in a random pattern, but as a whole, they were well organized.

Tah Dah.....




But that's not organized chaos. They were chaotic, then became organizaed. Two different states.

blowup

They were chaotic individuals while in the group of interconnected organization as a whole.

Originally posted by Reborn Again
We are living in it right now. Organized chaos is order within chaos and chaos within order, two sides of a coin that serve a purpose to confront our lives, living in a confused world where we know nothng but think we know everything. That is organizaed chaos.

*nods* I like that.

Huh. Seems like all I'm doing in this forum is becoming a dittohead.