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Who wins?

Pss.Psshah. Psshhahahahahahahaha.

Doom

Goodness! I will not even bother voting for this one. Count Q definitely knows nothing about Doom. Storm is cool, but she wouldn't even know what took her out.

Doom chuckles at the cute little mutey before shutting off her powers and then eating a grilled cheese sandwich.

I knew this was going to be the response. Storm takes it by overloading his armor and shortcircuiting him...

short circuit his suit

STORM metal suit DUH!!

Black power wins?....not this time Doctor Doom takes it.

BLACK HOT WOMAN POWER!!!

indeed.

Caool

Yeah...a random X Man will succeed where the FF struggle.

Just Doom. Isn't even open for debate. 99/100 times.

Doom would kill her, end of debate no one else reply.

Uh huh. Random X-men have taken down Doom before, what's your point?

Doom loses to just about anybody without prep. Storm destroys him.

Hahahaha.

'Storm destroys him'.

Funny.

I swear you don't stop felching the X-men just coz they fight Magneto.

-AC

It wouldn't be all that smart to not ground your mechanical suit.

Yeah true.

I can see that.

After taking a full pelt blast from the Infinity Gauntlet wielded by Thanos, lightning is gonna be the force to stop him.

-AC

Doom isn't smart though. That's me proven wrong.

Is it just me that thinks the X-Men collectively are nothing great, and individually are essentially one dimensional generic characters? There are about 70 of them and still there's about one sub-plot of dramatic interest running across both films thus far.

You'll note that then Storm hit Thanos with lightning..some wind..water. Ice. He was out of it.

...Yeah.

-AC

lol, you keep bringing that up like every answer I give about everything somehow has Magneto in mind. Magneto was the furthest thing from my mind when I gave this answer.

Doom has an impressive forcefield when it's up. But his arrogance is always his downfall. Unless he has it up at the start of the fight, Storm is gonna take him down.

If it'll make you feel any better, I'd give the same answer about any number of Avengers. And look at what I said about Panther vs. Doom. No Magneto anywhere in sight...

Why are we assuming that Doom will decide not to put up his forcefield though, that's presumptious to say the least.

Exactly.

Juggernaut has a forcefield and he never seems to turn the thing off. Why when it gets to Doom does he have to turn it on? Why can't he have it anyway?

-AC

Because Juggy's forcefield is ALWAYS on. Doom almost got blown up by a bunch of Latverian terrorists with a regular bomb in Spider-Man. His field isn't a constant by any stretch.

And even then, Storm can cause whether conditions within closed spaces. That includes inside forcefields.

Anyone else concerned that the X-Men writers have forgotten how to write?

You mean like Grant Morrison? Mark Millar? Joss Whedon?

Nope. Not concerned at all.

See what you tried to do there...didn't quite work.

No I don't. I mean the fact that the X-Men (in general) are suddenly pulling ludicrous powers out of their asses.

dude. get a clue. they're on sale at walmart for $19.99.

This is no contest, storm use to be my favorite character until she started dating every other x man. If she isn't flirting with gambit, it's wolverine and /or nightcrawler. She barely gives bishop the time of day. And any other guy she hasn't kissed isn't on her team--beast, gay-- northstar or taken--cyclops. Doom has 99 problems but a b*#@h aint one. Doom wins this easily.

you saying Storm a hoe dude? I'll taking to you E-blade 1.

Cyclops still fires optic blasts
Wolverine still cuts stuff
Colossus still punches things
Kitty still phases through things
Beast still....does Beast stuff

Would you like to elaborate on what ludicrous powers are being pulled out of whose asses?

Hmm...good retort. I guess I'll have to re-consider my argument now, huh?

This is fun...lion's den of pro-Doomness. I imagine it'll get worse before the day is out...

i'm not pro-doom at all. i just think your argument that storm can take
out dr. doom all by her lonesome is one of the most ridiculous things i've
heard here in a while. considering the entire x-men (storm included)
could not defeat doom. the fantastic four have major problems with doom.
you say storm just has to use electricity to take him down. wow.
it's that simple huh? i guess storm must be smarter than reed richards.

read a book.

Again, what you've done is try to move the argument from that to which you KNOW am I referring. That's never going to work.

Iceman. Magneto. Jean Grey. Every time they want to milk their cash cow they start massaging the fanboys by saying 'Oh you know what? Colossus can actually turn anything in the ambient atmosphere into metal.'

Bull. Two X-men alone took him out.



Wow, fireboy, rock guy and plastic man have difficulty beating Doom (despite the fact that they do every time). Must be a heavy hitter...



Thing by himself has beaten Doom. No stretch to that Storm can beat Doom.



Keep your fanboy insults to yourself.



Explain, because *clearly* I don't know to what you're referring.



That statement would have a lot more credibility if you used an actual example of something that actually happened. Some characters have gotten more powerful. That's hardly limited to the X-men. Ask AC - he swears Hulk is infinitely stronger now than he was before.

Didn't Doom already beat Storm?


Oh, wait it was an Doombot. Well, anyway, Doom has probably encountered Storm before, so he knows what to except from her (hence, he would have his forcefield on). Storm has no protection from Dr. Doom's blasts and there is no means that Storm could destroy Doom's armor. Doom would win.

How can FF battle Doom, anyway? Doesn't he have diplomatic immunity?

Storm wasn't trying to fight him. There was no actual combat that took place. Instead, she simply surprised her and trapped her. If you want to count that as a defeat, fine. But she wasn't fighting.

Storm once sent a surprise lightning attack that disabled Dr. Doom's blaster gauge, but they eventually worked together to handle an army that was controlling Latveria at the time. I don't think they ever truly fought one another.

if storm can make the sentinels become disfunctional beccasue of her lightning, then shouldn't she be able to do the same with docs suit??

if we're talking about Marvel vs. Capcom 2 then Strom haha

yes. Its been shown many times that Doom's forcefield is NOT always up. The guy posted above that Storm already nailed Doom with her powers and it worked just fine. I don't know WHY it's not always up. It's just not. Not my fault.

i was using yer pshhhahaha as agreement. heh
no way she wins....he might wanna do her tho.

storm definitley takes this I think. The docs force field isn't always up so she can hit him. she might be able to evade his attacks. Also doom has a big crush type thing for storm and when he had the cosmic cube he made her his wife, so he might hesitate to hit her. storms lightnng will short circuit his suit and if this happens then storm wins.

Storm doesn't take anything but a beating.

Why are we assuming that because Doom doesn't walk around hiding behind his forcefield, he won't put it up during the fight?

He will, we all know this. Doom's 'crush' isn't going to stop him killing her. Do you seriously think that lightning is a threat to Doom? He lives in Eastern Europe. Jesus.

Why is Storm able to evade him yet he is somehow open to her attacks without question? Wait, your name is Stormfront. Hardly an objective opinion.

"That statement would have a lot more credibility if you used an actual example of something that actually happened."

I swear Ice-Man went away as one of Marvel's weakest, 'discovered powers' and then came back as a credible match for the F4.

Yes, he didn't 'discover' anything. A self-indulgent moron got his hands on the character and pulled powers out of his ass.

Storm is no match for Dr. Doom. The only thing you have is the forcefield debate, in which you assume she'd catch him with it down.

-AC

storm can hit people without even seeing people. i'm not the only one that said that doom's field won't matter other people were saying it to so I went along with it also. Storm can evade his attacks by flying out of their way, she can move as fast or faster than mach 3. And she avoids attacks all the time. she can avoid cyclops optic blast even without her powers, because she did so when they had a fight for leadership and storm didn't have her powers then. she has enough sense to know to get out of the way in danger, she is above average intelligence after all. Also I didn't say that doom liking storm would prevent him from attacking her, I said that it might for a few seconds which is all storm needs to win. Again I am not the only one saying lightning will affect him, people are saying that his suit is made out of metal so it will have to do some affect to him. if she can short circuit sentinals then ahe can probably do it to his suit. storm has been shown to be able to make weather happen in places that she can't get to, this means inside his forcefield, if she hurts him in the forcefield then he might take it down which gives her the oppurtunity to really make a big attack.

"i'm not the only one that said that doom's field won't matter other people were saying it to so I went along with it also"

Point proven.

It will matter, because he will use it. You are assuming that he won't to aid your argument. Well, they are. You're just sheeping along.

"she has enough sense to know to get out of the way in danger, she is above average intelligence after all."

Doom is candidate for the smartest on Earth. Storm's "above average" intelligence is of no consequence.

Secondly, I'm not saying she can't avoid Doom's attacks, I'm saying Doom can avoid hers. Infact, he probably wouldn't need to coz he has a forcefield. Oh wait, you don't wanna let him use it.

"I said that it might for a few seconds which is all storm needs to win. Again I am not the only one saying lightning will affect him, people are saying that his suit is made out of metal so it will have to do some affect to him."

She isn't gonna beat Doom at all, much less in seconds. Do you actually read comics outside of X-men? Coz it seems you are just following everyone like a lost sheep.

Lightning isn't going to do anything to Doom if he's IN HIS FORCEFIELD. Stop making it out as if he's gonna be standing there doing the crip walk with no defense. Such a silly, biased opinion.

Storm can fly, will she? Who knows, maybe not. Just coz she CAN fly, doesn't mean she will, right? No, it doesn't. She will coz it's a power she uses. Like Doom's forcefield.

"if she can short circuit sentinals then ahe can probably do it to his suit. storm has been shown to be able to make weather happen in places that she can't get to, this means inside his forcefield, if she hurts him in the forcefield then he might take it down which gives her the oppurtunity to really make a big attack."

Doom isn't a sentinal, first of all.

Second, do you actually know where Storm has done this "inside forcefield" weather trick? Or are you just following everyone else? Coz I know where she did it. So be careful how you answer.

Opportunity to make a really big attack? Doom doesn't stand there throwing stones at you.

You obviously sap what other people have said and use it as your own.

Doom takes blasts from the Surfer and Thanos, Storm isn't going to beat him with lightning.

Demigawd said it's happened before, which as he will know, means that it will probably never ever happen again.

Either way, Storm doesn't win this fight. People need to stop massaging the X-Men. They're nothing.

-AC

I read that storm can affect people inside their forcefield on a storm website, and I also read it here, so I am pretty sure that it can happen. Also it makes sense that she would be able to because weather can happen anywhere. I didn't say that doom was a sentinal, but dooms suit is made of metal which means that it will most likely have some affect. storm will be able to create a tornado around doom which will mean that it will be hard for him to attack. This way she will be able to shoot lightning in there, or water then lightning which will make it more powerful. If hes in a tornado then she might be able to freeze him, she has done it before to omega red in seconds so why shouldn't she be able to do it again??

You read it on a STORM website, and here.

You haven't actually seen it happen, you're just believing what you read? Silly isn't it?

Why are you assuming "Oh Storm is gonna create a Tornado around Doom, harder for him to attack"? Stop making assumptions. These things are nothing to Doom. A Tornado isn't gonna stop him, lightning isn't, water or ice isn't.

THE WEATHER will not stop Dr. Doom. Let's get that correct.

"If hes in a tornado then she might be able to freeze him, she has done it before to omega red in seconds so why shouldn't she be able to do it again??"

Because Omega Red sucks. Doom doesn't.

You clearly have no knowledge of Dr. Doom so it's pointless you being involved.

You're sapping info off websites and other people, taking their word for it, rather than actually knowing.

None of what you are saying is actually going to lead to a win.

-AC

look, the writer gave the number of the comic and if I can find the website and comic number then i'll post it. i don't know what storm will do, but I am saying what she will most likely do through knowlege of her and her fightning skills

by the way this is what you said-Second, do you actually know where Storm has done this "inside forcefield" weather trick? Or are you just following everyone else? Coz I know where she did it. So be careful how you answer.

so you know that it has happened so stop acting like it hasn't. The weather can destroy countries, even the world. so your saying that doom is stronger than the world?? well than why is he fighting people like the ff if he is so powerful??

" i don't know what storm will do, but I am saying what she will most likely do through knowlege of her and her fightning skills"

Exactly.

Her knowledge pales in comparison to Doom's and so do her fighting skills.

"so you know that it has happened so stop acting like it hasn't. The weather can destroy countries, even the world. so your saying that doom is stronger than the world?? well than why is he fighting people like the ff if he is so powerful??"

I said I know something about it that you don't know. You haven't even seen it happen, you only know because others have seen it. So you using it in your debate is rather foolish because had no one said anything you wouldn't have known. Secondly, how do you know she won't be dead by then? This is a man who beat Surfer, Storm is no threat to him.

Why is he fighting people "like the FF"? Do you have any idea how strong the FF are as a team? They're the best Marvel team there ever was bar The Defenders.

Doom fights the Fantastic Four and has won. Fighting ONE X-Man is nothing.

You clearly don't know anything outside of the X-Men universe do you? No, you're a biased Storm fan.

-AC

So Doom's suit has stood up against Terrax, Silver Surfer, Ultron, the FF, Galactus, Thanos, Adam Warlock, Hyperstorm, etc...granted, his suit was destroyed by the Silver Surfer and Terrax in a cosmic rage that pushed the limits of the Surfer...and it was no pretection from the dreaming celestial...and he was utterly punked in in a battle against the beyonder...I still dont think there is anyway he would simply be overloaded by Storm's puny lightning...I think that assumption is pretty ignorant. Shield or no shield, his armor would still be able to withstand and electrical flux. Just because it is "metal" dont assume its plain iron. Its already been established his armor is immune to the control of Magneto...dont u think he would be resistant to something as frequent as electricity powers? Doom is beyond that...Storm would never fight Doom anyway, she owes him his life from back in FF vs X-Men when Doom healed her from a burn inflicted by the human torch, using sorcery and medicine. He also treated the entire X-Men, including Magneto like little children in that series.

what does biased mean anyway?? the only thing I don't know about is the fantastic four and many people seem to think that their not that powerful. just look at the other ff forums, people think that four x-men can beat the ff. also i'm not the only one who thinks storm will win. yes I am hardcore fan, you can ask me anything about storm and i'll know it,. I think that storm has a chance in this fight. if storm can get really mad then who knows what will happen.

I was discussing it with Vic the other day and he pointed out something extremely relevant.

Imagine if you were fighting Doom.

Cyclops: So who's our team?
Prof X: Storm.
Cyclops: Great. Just great, who else?
Prof X: ...J-just Storm.

Exactly. It's JUST Storm.

Puts things in perspective.

-AC

"what does biased mean anyway?? the only thing I don't know about is the fantastic four and many people seem to think that their not that powerful."

No they don't. Where are you reading this? Stop going by what everyone else thinks and think for yourself. F4 are regarded by many as the greatest Superhero team ever.

"just look at the other ff forums, people think that four x-men can beat the ff."

What? In that forum where everyone agreed that the F4 would smash the X-Men? Oh yeah, I remember.

"also i'm not the only one who thinks storm will win. yes I am hardcore fan, you can ask me anything about storm and i'll know it,. I think that storm has a chance in this fight. if storm can get really mad then who knows what will happen."

Exactly. You are backing Storm just because you like her. You don't know about Doom, The F4 or anything else BUT Storm and the X-Men. Knowing everything about a character doesn't mean they'll win. She's a nobody to Doom.

Chance of winning? She'd barely survive. Let alone win.

-AC

whose vic anyway??he was prolly just nervouscause its just two people. anybody would be norvous fighting doom. Storm might lose but imo she would put up a fight better than mostv people. she has numerous abilities and can beat most people.

She's just Storm. Nobody would ever say "He's JUST Doom."

She's JUST.....Storm. No single X-Man is a match for Dr. Doom, NONE.

Anyone would be nervous fighting Doom because he's Doom. Doom wouldn't be scared to fight any of the X-Men. He'd walk up to the Mansion and ring the bell.

He stole the Avengers mansion off them. That's Captain America, Thor, Iron-Man.

Storm would beat him? Funny.

-AC

So how does that comment on anything i just posted? I just listed several facts from actual comic books...instances where Doom's armor stood up against far more powerful opponents than Storm...If u know everything about Storm then u read the story where she was burned by the Human Torch...and u know Doom is above anything the X-men can throw at him...

Furthermore, lots of people talk about Doom getting beat...Doom has only truly lost on a few occasions...Dont confuse Doom with Doombots...Its revealed in FF # 350 that Doom was merely a Doombot in almost every appearance since FF#60

i already said that she might lose, but she will put up a good fight. storm is powerful. the weather can destroy the world. it can also kill. she is capable of killing wolverine which is hard to do and she can beat omega red. storm is a poweful chick and is strong enough to be on the JLA(yes it has been discusssed in the comics forum and other people agreee) or the avengers

I'm just waiting for one of the X-Men writers to come in and say "Nah coz Storm went away, trained a bit and now.........she can create black holes."

-AC

why would she be able to create black holes??

Storm cannot destroy the planet...she cannot even Control the weather to the degree of Thor. regardless, all of this would mean nothing to Doom since his armor has withstood assualts from Thanos, Hyperstorm, Ultron, Silver Surfer, etc...far more deadly adversaries than Storm and the weather

*Brings out puppets*

Watch carefully...

X-Men Writer 1: I think Storm is good.
X-Men Writer 2: I think she is too.
X-Men Writer 1: Wait....what if, right....what if.......she could create OTHER stuff.
X-Men Writer 2: But.......she can't. She doesn't have those powers.
X-Men Writer 1: Since when did that matter to us?

Better? .

-AC

thats stupid

Exactly.

If you have nothing to say besides how Storm would win coz she's your favourite and latch onto people's opinions like a leech, then don't bother participating.

-AC

I am not latching onto opinions. I simply stated that I think storm will win and I think this because.... then you counteracted with your opinion and we did that for a while. how is that latching?? its called a conversation

" am not latching onto opinions. I simply stated that I think storm will win and I think this because.... then you counteracted with your opinion and we did that for a while. how is that latching?? its called a conversation"

You continually said that "because others have said it".

You go by what others say, by what websites say.

Nothing you've said has been your own and anything that you have said by yourself, I've proven wrong. As has Wynndar.

Shoo.

-AC

I was using what others have said and thinking it over and it makes sense. it makes perfect sense that that storm can affect weather inside a forcefield so I posted it. and most everything I have said has been my own

You were using what others said though, not your own.

Coz you don't know anything outside of Storm and X-Men.

You know nothing of Doom or the F4.

All the stuff you've said may make sense to you but she cannot win this fight. I don't care if she's your fav or not, she can't.

-AC

i know some stuff about the ff4 but i don't know much about doom. and I was using somethings that others said but everything else was my oen

"and I was using somethings that others said but everything else was my oen"

So contradictory.

Nothing you've said has been your own. It's all been ripped off sites and people here.

Either way she'd lose. Doesn't matter what you think coz you're a biased fan of Storm.

-AC

once again I don't know what biased means and I don't know what contradictory means i'm prolly a lot younger than you. Also most of what I say has been my own, like my battle strageties. if storm wins so easily then why was this thread created??

No she can't, Forcefield block every thing who aren't stronger than the forcefield power. And for more... lol if u base everything on the only possibly for Storm to win who is to throw lightnings, sorry but Doom can produce more stronger lighting than storm with his 500 mega volt fire cannon. Seriously we all argument with facts and proofs to tell that Storm, fan or not, will never win against Dr.Doom. Storm is out classed here. There nothing else to say.

"once again I don't know what biased means and I don't know what contradictory means i'm prolly a lot younger than you."

No! Ge....get out. No freaking way....

"Also most of what I say has been my own, like my battle strageties. if storm wins so easily then why was this thread created??"

What strategies? She'll dodge and use lightning? That's not a strategy. She'll use a tornado or weather? Those aren't stratagies.

Secondly, CountQuan created this thread. He goes by the TV shows and the Games.

-AC

look I am not going to argue this anymore I already said that storm will prolly lose against doom and I know that what I say is most of my own. ur just being stupid and annoying about this kinda crap!!

There's no probably.

It's a certainty. If you're saying "I'm gonna stop arguing" then stop.

The more you say she'll win, the more I'll tell you she won't. Same as most people.

Your call.

-AC

omg there you go again i said that I was done and you bring it up again!! and I did stop but then you started it again!!

I said "End." in the other thread. Drop it.

-AC

Wow...I go away for a couple of hours and a full fledged war done broke out.

ok, first, stop being difficult AC. You and I both know that Storm has caused weather conditions inside a forcefield before. In fact, she's done it more than once. Most recently she did it in an issue of X-men where she and Jean flew into space. Storm was able to extend weather conditions within Jean's forcefield so that Jean wouldn't freeze and die in space. Storm was able to trap Unus the Untouchable within his skintight field with lightning, knocking him out THROUGH the forcefield. So let's just get that argument off the table now. If I thought long and hard I can come up with a few others too, including the one you remember AC (if it wasn't one of these). Storm CAN do it, she HAS done it, and it's not a one-time fluke. Therefore, it's valid for the debate.

So now that we've established that Storm can penetrate forcefields, the fact that Doom will or will not have his forcefield up becomes irrevelant. She could affect him anyway.

Now, let's move on to the fact that Doom has withstood blasts from blah, blah and blah. That's all well and good, but you're forgetting the very important point that Surfer's blast != Thor's blast != EM pulse != Electricity blast != Storm's attack. They each have different properties that interact differently with different things. Who cares whose blast is more powerful? Remember that issue of Thunderbolts where Songbird penetrated Sue's forcefield and knocked her out? Sue's forcefield withstood an attack from GALACTUS. Does that mean Songbird is more powerful than Galactus? NO - it means that Songbird noticed that if Sue could hear through her forcefield, that means sound gets through. So she sent a wave of sound towards Sue and it KO'ed her. It had nothing to do with power. It had everything to do with the way sound energy interacts with Sue's forcefield.

Likewise, just because Doom's armor is capable of withstanding brute power doesn't mean it's capable of not having its circuits fried by electricity. Storm already disabled his gauntlet with an electricity blast. How much more could she have done?

COULD Storm lose this fight? Of course! But this isn't nearly as effortless as you all make it out to be. Storm can give just as good as she gets, and the sheer versitility of her power makes her a very serious threat, enough so that I have no problem giving her the majority in a random encounter.

I'm not even going to get into any of the meaningless side debates, like whether the FF are powerful compared to the X-men or not or what boards have what opinion of them. Who cares?

That's my position, and I'm sticking to it. Besides, Stormfront needs help.

why do I need help?? you said the same thing that I've been trying to say!

First off Demi,

Stormfront just said that Storm could beat Wonder Woman and Jean with Phoenix Force. Knows nothing besides X-Men and Storm, extremely biased. It's distressing.

"So now that we've established that Storm can penetrate forcefields, the fact that Doom will or will not have his forcefield up becomes irrevelant. She could affect him anyway."

We've established that she's penetrated some forcefields. Not Dooms. Prove me wrong.

As for the blasts theory, Magneto (as you well know) cannot affect Doom. With electricity, magnetism or otherwise. He can control electricity better than Storm so why is Storm going to be able to do better? Answer: She's not.

People keep saying "random encounter" as if Doom leaves his suit in Castle Latveria and walks around in sweat pants. Doom doesn't do "random" encounters. This is what you need to realise. If you ACTUALLY come face to face with the real Dr. Doom it's because he wants to fight you. If you happen to luckily catch the best of him once, it aint happening again.

A win against Doom is only a disadvantage for round two. Lightning never strikes the same place twice? Irrelevant. Doom never loses to the same person more than once. Add to the fact that he hardly loses (actually him) and there you go.

I don't think Storm is winning this, at all.

Stormfront, you weren't TRYING to say it so don't make out that you were. You couldn't say what Demi said for the simple reason he knows stuff and you don't. You are felching Storm because she's your best, you've admitted to that aswell. You are of no consequence in this debate. You also admitted that Doom would win. What? Are you gonna change opinion now that Demi has come to help you? Of course you are.

-AC

Oh man...never did I think I would ever be treated to a finer display of fanboyism than what I have read in this thread. Kudos!

Bottom line is anyone with a modicum of knowledge of the Marvel Universe knows that there is a world of difference between Storm and Dr. Doom. What I've read here further reinforces my belief that X-fans are the most ignorant of all comic book fans. Storm is not in the same league as Doom.

Now we have demigawd talking about the relative merits of Surfer's blast, Thor's blast, an EM Pulse, and an Electricity blast somehow equalling Storms attack. I guess all of that must be more powerful than a DIRECT assault from Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet, huh? Doom's armour is his greatest asset and it can more than withstand whatever Storm can dish out.

She is sorely outclassed, regardless of what her fanboys think.

man what is this stormfront13 vs Alpha Centauri

LMFAO these two are going at it.

No we're not.

Stormfront is nothing to me, let's get that straight.

-AC

Lord S thonos was just using a fraction of his power.

Dooms armor has been crushed by hulk . But i do agree storm will be beate not cuz of armor , doom is a lot more than that.

yeah and thats you. I said that storm w/ the phoenix force could beat jean w/ the phoenix force! yes I'm biased but not extremly!

"yeah and thats you. I said that storm w/ the phoenix force could beat jean w/ the phoenix force! yes I'm biased but not extremly!"

Just sit out of this.

Although:

One thing I want to voice.

Why is everyone concentrating on what has happened TO Doom? When did we start ruling out his accomplishments?

I'd love to see Storm outsmart the Beyonder and Galactus. Beat Surfer. Beat the F4. Capture and run her own country. Steal the Avengers Mansion.

Stuff like that.

She wouldn't though, coz she's not as powerful or as smart as Doom.

2+2?

-AC

omf do you ever realive that you can actually be wrong AC!!

Yeah.

Do I believe you can prove me wrong? Here? No.

Why? Coz you lack the knowledge and sense. Be off with thee.

Now, we can get back on topic.

The day Storm proves as successful on her own as Doom is, as powerful or as smart, I'll consider her worthy to enter his castle. Until then, she's a nobody.

-AC

you are being really stupid and annoying. I have as m uch knowlege as you, I may not know all that much about doom but I am smart enough to know that storm is outmatched but she will put up a good fihgt

"you are being really stupid and annoying. I have as m uch knowlege as you".

No you don't.

Anyway, topic.

-AC

Except you've been saying it wrong. AC is a bit like me in that he wants examples. You haven't been the best at providing them. You can't argue by....wait, I'm not gonna argue with you on this. Just work with me here, lol.l



I've heard more distressing things. Especially on this board. CountQuan, anybody?



Well, Magneto HAS affected Doom before. Then, Doom got up, activated his whatever he did, and Magneto wasn't able to affect it the same way again. It wasn't an extended battle, so we don't know what other tricks Magneto might have had up his sleeve, or counter-tricks Doom might have had. It ended (in their most recent battle) with Magneto smacking Doom away, then Doom de-magnetizing his armor and hitting Magneto. It's a COMPLETELY different scenario. In this case, we're not talking about Storm penetrating Doom's forcefield (like Surfer or Thanos) or controlling his armor (like Magneto). We're talking about Storm bypassing the forcefield altogether, which makes Doom's armor like any other electronic device, and more than able to be fried, like she did against Iron Man, since its protection wouldn't come into play.




Well, the "new" battleboard rules state neutral ground, no-prep. Thems the rules.



ok, I can buy that. They have a random encounter, Storm beats Doom, Doom goes back, does some muckety muck, owns up Storm next time. I can live with that. I think Doom is great at planning and can think of a way to neutralize anybody, certainly Storm. If anything, my view of him pays greater homage because I don't think much of his personal power or combat capabilities (I put him below Iron Man), but I know that he can create a means of toppling damn near anybody. Including Storm. Isn't being technically outpowered but overcoming the odds a greater feat?



You're so mean, lol. You're like a board bully. He's probably, like 14 years old.

some people need to get off the internet, and go read a book.

"It is better to stay quiet and appear stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

um... demi i am 14 lol and ur point about my age is??

"I've heard more distressing things. Especially on this board. CountQuan, anybody?"

Exactly. You should see some of the threads this guy creates. Oh wait...

"Well, Magneto HAS affected Doom before. Then, Doom got up, activated his whatever he did, and Magneto wasn't able to affect it the same way again."

Exactly. Magneto affect Doom, only until Doom got back up. Completely rendered Magneto's power useless on him, and took it back. If this is how he treats Magneto, what will Storm do?

"It wasn't an extended battle, so we don't know what other tricks Magneto might have had up his sleeve, or counter-tricks Doom might have had. It ended (in their most recent battle) with Magneto smacking Doom away, then Doom de-magnetizing his armor and hitting Magneto. It's a COMPLETELY different scenario."

If he couldn't affect it again like you said in previous quote, why would it have mattered? Doom could clearly affect Magneto, Magneto could no affect Doom. This isn't about those two, BUT, if Magneto couldn't top Doom. Why could Storm? Someone significantly less powerful? She couldn't.

"We're talking about Storm bypassing the forcefield altogether, which makes Doom's armor like any other electronic device, and more than able to be fried, like she did against Iron Man, since its protection wouldn't come into play."

Yep. Coz Doom will stand there and not attack while she does all this. He'd kill her before she had the chance. We all know this.

"Well, the "new" battleboard rules state neutral ground, no-prep. Thems the rules."

Bit of a stupid rule that isn't it. Either way, Doom doesn't stroll around does he? So while we're being realistic, Storm would have to meet him in Latveria. Where he probably has a million and one things waiting for her.

"They have a random encounter, Storm beats Doom, Doom goes back, does some muckety muck, owns up Storm next time. I can live with that."

Why are you making it as easy as "Random encounter, Storm beats Doom." When is this EVER gonna happen? It's not. Ever. Is it? Hence why he always uses Doom bots. There isn't such a thing as a random Doom encounter and to say there is, just silly. Anyone that has actually gone to fight him has failed, more often than not. Storm would be no exception.

This whole debate is based on the chance that Storm MIGHT be able to create something inside his shield before he's decided to wipe her out. Which isn't likely, to me.

"You're so mean, lol. You're like a board bully. He's probably, like 14 years old."

So? Old enough to type to me so he's old enough to take it back.

-AC

i can take ur critiscism i never said that I couldn't

Stromfront13,

RULE #1 about Debating:
One should know both sides of a debate, before entering into one.

This will save you a lot of embarassment and you'll earn some respect.

"i can take ur critiscism i never said that I couldn't"

Yeah. "Take".

You can take my criticism in the way Rocky Balboa takes punches.

-AC

in what way was it bad- you said something about me that was untrue like that I didn't know anything about comics and in fact I know as much as you.

No you don't.

Anyway, TOPIC.

-AC

Could someone tell me how Doom who has tasted cosmic powers and wielded it, would be defeated by Ororo? Is this some kind of joke? C'mon people stop screwing around with these threads!!! What the hell can Storm throw at Doom? HUH someone please tell me that and don't say lightning c'mon

Where on Earth is the logic in that? That's such a sophistic point.

It's like a boxer saying 'my opponent can punch me in the midsection anyway, so why cover my face?' *walks around like Rocky*

storm will lose but she will go down fighting

So would Barry Horowitz. It's hardly an accolade.

what are you talkin about

You said it yourself in the other thread - you don't know certain words yet because of it. Stop being defensive, lol.

Jesus.....

Ok, here's what he meant, you posted this:

"storm will lose but she will go down fighting"

The first three words were "storm will lose."

End of debate. Why does it matter how good she does if she loses anyway? It doesn't. Going down fighting doesn't change the fact that you're going down.

-AC

i know that i was askin him what he meant by the Barry Horowitz thing- i'm stupid and didn't get it and demi i wasn't being defensive i was just askin srry if I came off the wrong way

Hmmrm. Busy day.



You're still comparing apples and oranges, here. You just like making me talk about Magneto, don't you?



I'm not going to turn this into a Magneto vs. Doom debate, but it would have mattered because all Doom did was de-polarize his armor. Magneto could have shifted frequencies like he did when Iron Man did the same thing, forcing Doom to play catch up. He could have subverted Doom's internal electronics, in which case the polarity of the armor becomes meaningless. He could have affected the man THROUGH his armor. But we won't know how much of that he could have or would have done because Doom got teleported away before we could see how Magneto would have responded to Doom's response. So it's a moot point.



Magneto couldn't affect Doom's armor by treating it like a chunk of metal. That's not the same as saying Magneto couldn't affect Doom.



It's not about power levels. It's about the nature of the powers. Doom's forcefield never came into play against Magneto. Doom's forcefield may come into play against Storm. If it doesn't, Storm fries his circuits because...they're circuits. If it does, Storm still fries his circuits, she just does it through the forcefield. The amount of level of power has nothing to do with the very basic notion that electricity fries circuits.



heh, well, if we're coming down to a test of agility in dodging respective attacks, I'd go with an athletic woman over a middle-aged dude in a suit of armor any day.



Yeah, I can agree with that. So if we're being realistic, then Storm wouldn't fight Doom by herself because X-men never fight alone. BUT, we've been tasked to come up with scenarios in which Storm would fight Doom. With prep and on his ground, yes, Doom would win. With prep and on any ground, Doom would win. BUT, the rules state that it's on neutral ground and without prep, and I've named a scenario in which Storm would win based upon previous showings of her power. Nothing wrong with that.



So what are you saying? That people should only post fights that can realistically happen? That we shouldn't post Doom fights because Doom only uses Doombots? C'mon, now.

How about the Beyonder returns and instantly teleports Doom and Storm to a remote location and says, "FIGHT! NOW! OR EARTH IS DESTROYED!".

There you have it. Random Doom encounter.



But which does seem likely to me. Hence the disagreement. Is there something special about Doom's forcefield that neutralizes internal environmental changes? Something in his forcefield that establishes its own unalterable eco-system?

Lightning.



Dammit!

ok, how about changing the air pressure from inside Doom's armor, causes his lungs to collapse. Or changing the temperature inside the forcefield, making it so cold that he'd have to drop it. I could do this for awhile....

Yes, yes, Doom has done this and that. But what you're missing is, he's done this through his inventions. He's prepared and inventing things to give him the means of tasting cosmic power and universal power and all that. That has nothing to do with his ability to do battle in a neutral location with no prep (board rules!)



I don't get it.

I said that Storm could affect Doom through his forcefield. What that has to do with boxing is beyond me. But if you'd like to elaborate, I won't stop you.

At the risk of turning this into Magneto/Doom, I haven't attended to your points about it. We can do that another time if you wish.

"If it doesn't, Storm fries his circuits because...they're circuits. If it does, Storm still fries his circuits, she just does it through the forcefield. The amount of level of power has nothing to do with the very basic notion that electricity fries circuits."

Well lets go with the more likely chance that he will use his forcefield, why are you assuming he's not gonna take her out before she can affect his circuitry? What makes you think that in Doom's suit, any level of electricity is going to affect it? Do you believe Doom built it and forgot to make it invulnerable to electricity?

"heh, well, if we're coming down to a test of agility in dodging respective attacks, I'd go with an athletic woman over a middle-aged dude in a suit of armor any day."

The only widespread attack Storm has is wind. Doom could and probably would just crack out an attack that will drench the area. Doesn't matter how athletic she is. That's the thing with Doom. He doesn't be precise where he doesn't needs to be. Just over does it, gets all bases covered.

"BUT, the rules state that it's on neutral ground and without prep, and I've named a scenario in which Storm would win based upon previous showings of her power. Nothing wrong with that."

What "RULES"? No offence but what's the point of having rules in a fantasy battle? Some of Marvel's characters, Doom for one, aren't applicable to rules. Those rules are just silly. There are characters who live off prep. What about them? Are they gonna be subject to loss on every battle as a result of these "rules"? Come on.

Either way, going by your quote, it's 2-1 Doom.

"How about the Beyonder returns and instantly teleports Doom and Storm to a remote location and says, "FIGHT! NOW! OR EARTH IS DESTROYED!".

There you have it. Random Doom encounter."

He didn't do that in this fight. Nor did that happen, or would it.

You could also use that random Doom encounter when he popped out to collect the mail and Storm was walking her dog. Or when Doom stepped out for a game of tennis and Storm happened to be mowing his lawn and decided to fight.

Psst, random Doom encounters don't really happen do they?

"Is there something special about Doom's forcefield that neutralizes internal environmental changes? Something in his forcefield that establishes its own unalterable eco-system?"

Is there something in Storm's face that is created to stop an energy bolt going through it? Coz he could do that just as fast.

-AC

listen to demi he's the smart one here- besides if he has hisforce field up then can he really do anything to storm either??

"listen to demi he's the smart one here- besides if he has hisforce field up then can he really do anything to storm either??"

Hahaha.

Leave the thread please.

-AC

ok if doom has his force field up then can he do anything to storm??!!

Ye-yes.

Yes he can.

It prevents attacks hitting him. Not going out.

-AC

ok then that clears things up but still storm can make it below zero in his shield in a matter of seconds. She has frozen a lot of people including omega red and a sentinal prime or somethin nlike that in a matter of seconds

It's hardly a valid comparison.

If we're going to do that, let's look at Doom stealing Galactus' power, and the Beyonder's.

...And taking Surfer's board off him, by fighting him.

Suddenly Storm making Omega Red get a bit cold doesn't seem impressive.

-AC

Actually he wasn't...he powered down five of the Infinity Gems, leaving Power at 100%, so Doom received the full brunt.

Magneto vs. Doom thread's gotta be around here somewhere.



Because she's good at dodging energy blasts. She's pretty mobile and doesn't need line of sight to affect him. If you're going with quickdraw logic for this, Doom loses unless he gets a direct hit early. And just as Doom is smart enough to put his shields up, Storm is smart enough to not just stand in front of him and blast away. That probably throws the quickdraw argument out of the window for both of us.



Well, given how he's been toasted by Torch on several occasions, I figure if he forgot to fireproof his armor when ONE OF HIS SWORN ENEMIES HAS FIRE POWER, he may have neglected to add in some grounding too...

...moreover, if his armor without the shield were electricity-proof, she wouldn't have disabled his gauntlet, would she?



?????

Are you serious? She controls the weather - the most widespread force of destruction in all of nature. Wind is by NO means the only widespread attack she has. She doesn't just propel lighting from her hands like it's some kind of gatling gun. She can summon lightning attacks from the sky. From the atmophere anywhere. She doesn't need to aim. She just needs to envision where the affect will take place and it does. Storm doesn't really even need to be on the battlefield to attack Doom.



I've seen a similar attack in Marvel vs. Capcom. But I don't recall him doing that in the comic. But I'll defer to your knowledge of him in this instance - when has he done such an omnidirectional attack using just his armor?



I'll bet you dollars to donuts that Storm has the market on widespread attacks cornered. Trust me, she's got him beat there, as well as attack range.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t308157.html

I don't make 'em up. Just follow 'em. If you want to ask CountQuan for stipulations to qualify the battle, be my guest. Methinks he's (wisely) fled some time ago, lol.



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t308157.html

I'm telling you, I'm not making it up. Says right there, lol.



Indeed. But one of those aren't allowed according to the rules ("no prep". So it's more like 1-1.



But it's considered a random encounter. No matter how distasteful it is to you. Come up with whatever plot point you want, if having the Beyonder return isn't palatable to you.



Like that one.



Storm needing to fight Doom by herself in the first place doesn't really happen either. Superman Prime fighting Living Tribunal doesn't really happen, either. You can't pick on the impracticality of this one if you're not going to do it to all of them.

Thank you for the assist. And since you're feeling so helpful, if you'd like to explain that analogy, I'd appreciate that even more.



Given that people have taken hits by beings wielding the Power Gem lots of times, that's not all that impressive.



You know, I've heard this referenced many times over the years, but I've never actually seen the battle. If anybody has any scans of it, or a description of what exactly happened, I'd love to see how he pulled it off. Obviously it happened, but I'd love to know more about it.

Storm cannot defeat Dr. Doom by her lonesome.
I like her too, but wake up. stop dreaming.

"Well, given how he's been toasted by Torch on several occasions, I figure if he forgot to fireproof his armor when ONE OF HIS SWORN ENEMIES HAS FIRE POWER, he may have neglected to add in some grounding too......moreover, if his armor without the shield were electricity-proof, she wouldn't have disabled his gauntlet, would she?"

May have, but likely not. Secondly, his gauntlet was separate from his suit. It wasn't his regular glove, which is part of the suit. It's all one working machine, if she disabled his glove and it was all connected, he'd have concked out.

"She can summon lightning attacks from the sky. From the atmophere anywhere. She doesn't need to aim. She just needs to envision where the affect will take place and it does. Storm doesn't really even need to be on the battlefield to attack Doom."

Yeah but lightning can come from anywhere in the sky naturally. As we all know, metals are susceptible. If Doom was vulnerable to lightning, his whole suit, we'd have seen him defeated many times. Do you think he's incapable of fighting in storms? No he isn't.

"I've seen a similar attack in Marvel vs. Capcom. But I don't recall him doing that in the comic. But I'll defer to your knowledge of him in this instance - when has he done such an omnidirectional attack using just his armor?"

You've never seen him create flash bang attacks? What's Storm gonna do without her eyes?

"I'll bet you dollars to donuts that Storm has the market on widespread attacks cornered. Trust me, she's got him beat there, as well as attack range."

Yeah and they're still gonna be as non-effective. Range doesn't really equate to power with Storm.

As for the rules: "At teh moment, these rules are a bit experimental, so they'll be changed from time to time. Lets see if we can make these debates work a little better."

It's not is it? It's making them extremely one-sided for characters who use their brains rather than brawn. I never said you made the rules, I just said it's a bit stupid treating Marvel Super Characters like Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield. They're not gonna be in some ring are they?

"Indeed. But one of those aren't allowed according to the rules ("no prep". So it's more like 1-1."

The rules are BS though aren't they? Do you actually think, reading through those specified rules, that they are applicable to a Marvel fight? I don't.

"But it's considered a random encounter. No matter how distasteful it is to you. Come up with whatever plot point you want, if having the Beyonder return isn't palatable to you."

I'm just saying, you can do that but we know it wouldn't happen.

"Like that one."

If you couldn't tell that was mostly humour, I dunno how more blatant to make it.

"Storm needing to fight Doom by herself in the first place doesn't really happen either. Superman Prime fighting Living Tribunal doesn't really happen, either. You can't pick on the impracticality of this one if you're not going to do it to all of them."

I'm talking in relation to your "Storm wins if they have a random encounter" claim. Yes, you're going by rules but it's like saying Tony Stark has no prep time.

-AC

-AC

It's quite simple, just because a defensive strategy is not complete, does not render it useless.

Why would he shield his armor and not his main offense??? The only answer has to be that he's applied the same treatment to his armor as he did his gauntlet - that is, no electrical shielding. It wouldn't make sense for him to half-ass it.



Planes fly in thunderstorms too. The difference is, there's no directed pulse of electrical energy targeting the circuitry. Doom fighting in a storm is akin to that plane. He can ground himself so that he doesn't attract electricity. But that doesn't mean he's immune to direct attack.

And keep in mind, we're only arguing lighting. She can create vortexes, pressure systems, fill his armor with water, or a combination of all of the above. If he's got defenses for all of that, then the fact that he still doesn't have a way to see Sue or not get fried by Torch in fights is a damn shame....



Flash bang? Doom got flash bang? Nobody flash bangs better than Storm. She controls lightning, afterall...



*shrug*



Well, the idea of automatically dismissing a fight as being impractical under neutral stipulations is just as silly. We're talking about comic books. Writers can come up with whatever reasons they want to have run-ins. Hell, Doom was in NYC in a recent issue of Spider-Man, where he had a random encounter with some Latverian terrorists who nearly killed him. The man isn't immune to random encounters.



Because the Beyonder has never gratuitously and randomly teleported Doom and the X-men someplace and told them to fight?



I know. I was being sarcastic in response to your sarcasm, lol.




Tony Stark has fought without preptime. Plenty of times. But if you want to settle by saying Doom wins with prep, Storm wins in sudden combat and leave the rest to stormfront, I'm down, lol. I'll even say that "prep" is more likely to happen in an actual fight if it'll make you happy.

Except that when you cause a storm inside the shield, bypassing the shield entirely....the shield becomes useless.

Since you like analogies, here's one:

Same boxer, except instead he's getting punched from the inside. Doesn't much matter whether he's protecting his head or middle section anymore, does it?

Yes, because he is limiting some possible methods of attack.

Not sure why this is so hard to grasp.

"Why would he shield his armor and not his main offense??? The only answer has to be that he's applied the same treatment to his armor as he did his gauntlet - that is, no electrical shielding. It wouldn't make sense for him to half-ass it."

Or....the shielding comes from technology inside his suit. The gauntlet was stand alone.

"Planes fly in thunderstorms too. The difference is, there's no directed pulse of electrical energy targeting the circuitry. Doom fighting in a storm is akin to that plane. He can ground himself so that he doesn't attract electricity. But that doesn't mean he's immune to direct attack. And keep in mind, we're only arguing lighting. She can create vortexes, pressure systems, fill his armor with water, or a combination of all of the above."

Storm can only aim at Doom. Right? She can't set her electricity to target circuits. If Doom gets hit by a bolt of lightning it won't do much. Whether it's coming from the clouds or from Storm doesn't matter. She controls the weather, lest we forget. Vortexs and pressure systems? Doom travels through time and space. These will do what?

"If he's got defenses for all of that, then the fact that he still doesn't have a way to see Sue or not get fried by Torch in fights is a damn shame...."

Yeah but he's not fighting them. So...yep.

"Flash bang? Doom got flash bang? Nobody flash bangs better than Storm. She controls lightning, afterall..."

Yeah.........I know. Can't quite see what you're trying to prove. You asked, I answered.

"Hell, Doom was in NYC in a recent issue of Spider-Man, where he had a random encounter with some Latverian terrorists who nearly killed him. The man isn't immune to random encounters."

I never said he was. Said they rarely ever happen.

"Because the Beyonder has never gratuitously and randomly teleported Doom and the X-men someplace and told them to fight?"

He's never teleported Doom to Storm and say "Fight" one on one.

I don't think Storm would win in sudden combat. I doubt she's gonna instantly do anything that Doom couldn't come back from should the very rare occurance happen. He got blasted with the gauntlet and got RIGHT up. So if anything it'll just start a fight, a fight I believe Doom would win easily.

-AC

It's not hard to grasp. Sure, Doom putting up his forcefield will prevent Storm from, I dunno, hitting him with hail from the sky. Or blowing machinery, rock and equipment around and hitting him with it. Fine. Great. Yay. I never said otherwise, which is why I never mentioned any of that. What I did say is that she can affect him from inside of his forcefield, which makes the forcefield USELESS to that kind of attack.

Why is THAT so hard to grasp?

That response was directed at the guy above AC, not at AC.

You didn't say to that kind of attack, you said it makes it useless per se.

What kind of leap of logic is that? Storm has an attack that can bypass the forcefield, therefore the forcefield is useless.

Someone could shoot a police officer, so they shouldn't wear stab vests?

The forcefield will effectively reduce her effectiveness to that attack only. How does that equate with making it a non-consideration in the fight?

But why would a gauntlet that is his standard weapon not have the same shielding technology that is inside his suit? It's his primary means of attack! Without it, he's lost a major offensive option. It wouldn't make sense for it to have been proved that he didn't shield the circuits in his primary weapon from lightning but to assume that he applied some shielding against it in his armor. There's no reason for the inconsistency, unless he didn't shield it anywhere.



That was how she took out the gauntlet. The electricity reaches past and through the metal joints into the underlying circuitry. Metal isn't a shield against electricity - it conducts it through everything inside of it.



Sure it does - just as sometimes lightning destroys a plane's engine and sends it crashing to the ground or causing an electrical blackout that causes it to crash. It's just that the odds are against that happening because lightning is random.



Travels through time and space? Great! So after he gets flash fried, he can go back in time when medical treatment was cheap and get patched up...



It proves that if he hasn't even built into his standard armor the means of repelling his greatest enemies, why would he build a means of repelling some random X-chick? It's because his armor is probably a lot more basic than you're crediting it, because he relies almost exclusively on his forcefield, which is why he's always getting nailed with its down.



ok, so he has a wide area "attack" that simulates what she can do naturally. Great, so they can blind each other.



You said never. But now that we've upgraded to "rarely", we can say that one of those "rarely"s would be in whatever fight brings him into conflict with Storm. It's really not that hard to think of lots of scenarios where that would happen. Do I really have to come up with them? Hell, that happened the most recently time he fought Magneto.



No, but it wouldn't have been outside the realm of possibility for Storm to just go hogwild and attack Doom as soon as she saw him, thinking he was somehow responsible for teleporting her.



The gauntlet blast was concussive - it was designed to blast a hole in whatever it touched. Doom was shielded and survived. it wasn't designed to disable his armor or bypass the shield. That's not the same as subverting the shield entirely and frying the electronics. It's a completely different type of attack.

*sigh* ok. It makes it useless to that kind of attack, but I'm sure it's very useful against attacks that Storm won't use....happy?



Um...because if someone can bypass the thing that protects you, then it's not protecting you anymore?



It means that if someone shoots a police officer, then his stab vest was useless. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have had it on. Likewise, I definitely think Doom should have his forcefield up. I'd absolutely recommend that to him if he asked me. Then Storm would light him up from within the field and that he'd still be fried, like he never had it. But I still think he should use it.

That's simplifying the argument for your purposes. It's not logical. It's still protecting him against certain attacks, thereby limiting Storm's effectiveness. This does not mean 'the fact that Doom will or will not have his forcefield up becomes irrevelant' as you claimed.

You are either clinging on to that point in the hope of saving face, or (and it CANNOT be possible) you do not see why the statement 'the fact that Doom will or will not have his forcefield up becomes irrevelant' is untrue.

"But why would a gauntlet that is his standard weapon not have the same shielding technology that is inside his suit? It's his primary means of attack! Without it, he's lost a major offensive option. It wouldn't make sense for it to have been proved that he didn't shield the circuits in his primary weapon from lightning but to assume that he applied some shielding against it in his armor. There's no reason for the inconsistency, unless he didn't shield it anywhere."

This is all about how you don't believe it worked. I don't know how Doom wires his suits, nor can I ask him, I'm doing by what I saw.

"That was how she took out the gauntlet. The electricity reaches past and through the metal joints into the underlying circuitry. Metal isn't a shield against electricity - it conducts it through everything inside of it."

Yes but she can't specifically configure it to hit circuits. It's not like setting phasers to stun. She can't set her electricity to circuits. If she can't hit the metal she can't hit the circuits.

"It's just that the odds are against that happening because lightning is random."

True. Well assuming the shield is up, she can't hit him with lightning bolts anyway. So it's moot.

"Travels through time and space? Great! So after he gets flash fried, he can go back in time when medical treatment was cheap and get patched up..."

Completely missed my point. He travels through vortexs, space pressure etc.

"It proves that if he hasn't even built into his standard armor the means of repelling his greatest enemies, why would he build a means of repelling some random X-chick? It's because his armor is probably a lot more basic than you're crediting it, because he relies almost exclusively on his forcefield, which is why he's always getting nailed with its down."

He became Dr. Doom before he met the F4, first off.

Second, like or love, there's nothing basic about Doom. Much less his armour.

Third, he relies on what comes out of his suit to commit offense. He has his forcefield. Which apparantly works rather well.

"You said never. But now that we've upgraded to "rarely", we can say that one of those "rarely"s would be in whatever fight brings him into conflict with Storm. It's really not that hard to think of lots of scenarios where that would happen. Do I really have to come up with them? Hell, that happened the most recently time he fought Magneto. "

Let's not weasel my words. I never said he is IMMUNE to random encounters.

"The gauntlet blast was concussive - it was designed to blast a hole in whatever it touched. Doom was shielded and survived. it wasn't designed to disable his armor or bypass the shield. That's not the same as subverting the shield entirely and frying the electronics. It's a completely different type of attack."

He survived coz his suit is the shit. It burned his cape off, so he wasn't shielded at that one point. He survived coz of his "basic" suit.

-AC

I can't believe you're utterly focused on such a minute point. YES, having the shield up protects him from certain attacks. I think we're in agreement on this. NO, it won't limit Storm's effectiveness in any way that will affect the outcome of the battle. Because Storm can affect Doom through his shield, he will be hurt as through he never had it. That's what I've been saying all this time. Why do you keep arguing that? Did I say that Doom's forcefield becomes completely ineffective against Storm? Maybe I did, so if it'll make you drop the issue, I'll correct myself.

Doom's forcefield becomes ALMOST completely ineffective against Storm.

There.

I dearly hope this helps you sleep better tonight.



Saving face? Saving face from what? Even if that point were completely off base (and it's not), it hardly collapses my argument. Proving that I said "completely ineffective" instead of "almost completely ineffective" does not cause me to lose the debate. My major point that Storm can do damn near anything she wants to Doom through his shield is the crux of my argument. Attack that and then you're getting somewhere. Otherwise, you're attacking Galactus' foot when everyone else is focusing on his head and heart.

But neither of us have seen Doom take a direct hit from a bolt of lighting to know whether or not he's immune to it. So we can only go by circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence shows that he's not shielding against a lot of basic elements, like fire. Circumstantial evidence also shows that his electronics were disabled by a lighting strike by the opponent in question. Therefore, the circumstantial evidence is stronger in favor of the fact that his armor isn't proofed against electricity than it is that it is proofed against it.



that goes back to my original point that she can affect him through the shields. If the shields are up, she just creates an environment inside the shields that include lighting, striking him from within his own shield.



Not without some kind of transport device, I assume, right? Or a forcefield with an air supply, right? I mean, his skin shows through his armor, so he'd have to put something up to breathe, right?



Tony upgrades his armor to deal with threats. Doom can't? His armor was evidently so useless against the Fantastic Four that he gave it up entirely and went to sorcery...



His gauntlet has always been his primary offense. Why would he use that as his primary offense and not have shielded it if he shielded everything else? It's the circumstantial evidence that makes me find the fact that she's anti-lightning so hard to believe.



ok, so...this is one of those random encounters to which he's not immune. Deal?



ok, even accepting that...Storm's attack isn't designed to destroy Doom. It's designed to disable his armor by frying the circuits. You can't compare the two types of attacks any more so than you can compare Galactus blasting Sue and failing to Songbird blasting Sue and succeeding.

Well, that was the original point that I mentioned, which you are still denying via massive detours.



Then gracefully concede the point.



Yes it will. In fact, the only way that statement is correct is if it's technically impossible to reduce 0% effectiveness. Also I note you added a second clause that wasn't previously part of the debate. I think it's called 'weaselling out'. Let's stick to the terms as mentioned.

Removing primary offensive attacks- and let's not kid ourselves, when does Storm create a mini tidal wave inside someone's left ventricle? (NB she doesn't, she flies up and makes it windy)- will reduce her options, and her effectiveness.



Not relevant. Was pointing out the the statement was incorrect.




Again, that's not what I said at any point. I said the point is wrong, and it was a speculative attempt to keep this (frankly ridiculous) thread alive. You tried to discount Doom's forcefield because one attack doesn't fall against it.

Isn't happening.

Seeing as the only part of your post about the fight was the last one, I'll deal with that:

"ok, even accepting that...Storm's attack isn't designed to destroy Doom. It's designed to disable his armor by frying the circuits. You can't compare the two types of attacks any more so than you can compare Galactus blasting Sue and failing to Songbird blasting Sue and succeeding."

Since when did Storm become Electro-Woman? She manipulates the weather, yes. She cannot control the circuitry if she can't get to it. Right?

So if she fires electricity up inside his forcefield, it's gonna get to the metal of his suit, not the circuitry. He has been bombarded before and nothing has happened. She is not capable of specifically targeting his circuitry.

Even so, as Vic rightly pointed out: When does she ever do this? When? When does she fire up a tornado inside a forcefield or anything like that? She doesn't. She got his gauntlet coz his shield was down, had it not been she wouldn't have.

She's not gonna fly around trying to create some kind of mini tornado while Doom is bopping her in the face with energy blasts or at least keeping her busy.

Oh and for the record, Doom's shield isn't like a baby's pushchair cover. It isn't a protective film. It creates a habitat inside that he can survive in whilst being protected. The very notion that Storm could even create something in there is debateable.

-AC

the only attack that his field will protect him from is prolly hail. everything else she should be able to create. storm can create tornado in the field sucking all the oxygen away. he is human, so he needs oxygen to breath, if she keeps this up long enough then she can knock him out. mteal conducts electricity making him vulnerable to it. she can create mist around him so it will be hard for him to see then can do a big attack. it only takes her seconds to freeze someone so she can freeze him in a block of ice, kinda like iceman only a bit slower.

Hahahahahahaha. So hilarious.

Stormfront, leave it to Demi, he's doing alright.

You just make me want to laugh you out of the thread.

Fanboys. Tsk tsk.

-AC

what did I say that was so funny?? ur just so arrogant and your ego won't let you realize that you are wrong

I'm not wrong though, in this case.

You're posting nonsense.

You pretty much agreed with me that she'd lose anyway. So let's not clutter up the thread junior. Maybe they're showing X-Men reruns on Fox Kids, watch that maybe. Grown ups talking.

-AC

you just said ur 19, what makes you seem like your so old cause ur acting like a second grader. demi put up a lot of good points and made me realize that these two are evenly matched.

"you just said ur 19, what makes you seem like your so old cause ur acting like a second grader."

I'm not acting like anything. You're acting like a kid in the playground who doesn't know anything so they just agree with whoever they spoke to last.

Example:

"demi put up a lot of good points and made me realize that these two are evenly matched."

You're a parasitic fanboy. Deal.

-AC

yeah i'm a fanboy,i'll admit that, but storm can win this fight. do you even know anything about storm, cause if you did then you'd realize that shes a lot stronger than you make her out to be. everyone here except demi and i are fully underestimitating storm. she is a lot stronger and smarter than you seem to think. how can doom survive w/ out oxygen. or how can he survive be being in a block of ice. storm will definitley be able to affect him in the forcefield which makes it useless so therefore he wouldn't want to use it. with the wind she can take him off the ground and throw him places just like telekinesis. if he tries to hit her she can evade it, she isn't slow she can move at the speed of mach three and even faster, which means that she can use her wind at the speeds of mach thre or faster. with mach three wind she will prolly be able to pin him to the ground or a surface and then hit him with a lot of lightning overriding his suit. if this doesn't work then she can use hail. hail can be the size of basketballs, and i'm sure that these wouldn't feel that good hitting you at the speed of mach three. even if he is pinned then she can freeze him this way.

"yeah i'm a fanboy,i'll admit that, but storm can win this fight. do you even know anything about storm, cause if you did then you'd realize that shes a lot stronger than you make her out to be. "

I read X-Men for years, I probably know more about Storm than you do. Do you know anything about Doom? No. Shhhh then. You admitted you're a fanboy, anything else is just overkill from now on.

"everyone here except demi and i are fully underestimitating storm. she is a lot stronger and smarter than you seem to think."

No, only you two seem to think she can win. There's a difference. Infact, you admitted she would lose and now you're just going back on it. So it's irrelevant (that means it doesn't matter).

"storm will definitley be able to affect him in the forcefield which makes it useless so therefore he wouldn't want to use it."

Hahahaha. How stupid. This is fun, I don't normally tear fanboys to shreds, to easy. However I'll afford you the luxury.

"with the wind she can take him off the ground and throw him places just like telekinesis. if he tries to hit her she can evade it, she isn't slow she can move at the speed of mach three and even faster, which means that she can use her wind at the speeds of mach thre or faster. with mach three wind she will prolly be able to pin him to the ground or a surface and then hit him with a lot of lightning overriding his suit. if this doesn't work then she can use hail. hail can be the size of basketballs, and i'm sure that these wouldn't feel that good hitting you at the speed of mach three. even if he is pinned then she can freeze him this way."

Just look at all this. Multiple paragraphs of why you think Storm would win. None of them correct, none of them proveable, none of them realistic. All of them pathetic.

Everything you've said has either been said before and proven wrong or is just too dumb for anyone to say.

*RipTearRip*

Now I can continue until you're just a bloody, quivering internet mass or we can go on with your ridiculous, 'I love Storm so much' theories.

Coming from someone who thinks Storm could fight Superman and beat Wonder Woman, your opinions mean nothing.

-AC