Will there ever be an end to "history"

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lalalala333
Ofcourse by the end of "history"I don't mean civilization ending,I mean will there be a time where there could be no further progress in the state system and economy because it has acheived it's maximum potential,and maybe even be perfect?(Well,probably not)Thus history ends.Marx said that,when a communist society is acheived(which I don't agree with) history would end.Do you believe that?

Jackie Malfoy
I do when the world ends history ends.Weather you believe it will happen like the movies or just blow up.I believe there will be a judgement day and history and the world will end that day!JM

Bardock42
well first of all you have to belive in Marx theory of History to agree with that. But I think there will always be some progress, untill there either is no live in the Universe anymore or there is no Universe.

Jackie Malfoy
That is what I been trying to say in my post.JM smile

Bardock42
Well then ....I guess we agree smile

peterKSL
you can only kill history if you kill time... other than that, history never dies...

Capt_Fantastic
I would imagine that history will end when there are no humans left to remember it. Since it is a concept, much like time, it requires an imagination to exist.

As for Marx, I think he missed, well, the mark.

Alpha Centauri
I agree with Capt.

-AC

peterKSL
Time is known to other animals too, other than humans...

Capt_Fantastic
I'm not sure I follow you. Please explain.

Bardock42
well it depends, are you talking aboot man written down history or just history as in stuff that happened?

peterKSL
History are imagined by humans, as you said... and for history to be immortal, time must not die... And must be observed by humans...
What I was trying to say, even if humans are extinct, animals are are still there to observe history. Time as you said, needs imagination to be exist, and for animals to know time, they must know history also...

Bardock42
I think he was refering to this Frenchman

Capt_Fantastic
I think you missed my point, but..do you try to confuse me? Am I the only one that this happens to when you say something?

What I'm saying is that history is important to humans becuse we are sentient beings..you know, self awareness and what not. I don't know of any animals that stop what they're doing because it's 6:30 and time for dinner. This isn't wonderland...there aren't really rabbits with top hats and pocket watches.

peterKSL
My dog knows when it's time for food, and waits to be served... and animals hunt at a certain time...You might not know that animals do know time, but that doesn't mean that animals don't know time... smokin'

I believe that animals have self awareness... Even though many has said that animals don't have...

The moment that something catches your attention, you are aware, and I see that in (almost) all animals...

Capt_Fantastic
I respect your opinion, but knowing what time of day you're usually fed doesn't equal a concept of time. That's biology. Just because animals migrate or have a mating season, doesn't mean they have sex at 7:32pm or that they eat every day a noon. My dog has no concept that it's xmas morning when we're opening presents. On the same note, just because my mother sets a wrapped rawhide bone in front of him doesn't mean that he knows he needs to open it, that he may have been created by a god or that there might be an afterlife. He just sees a colorful thing that smells like something that he likes to chew on. It's all a matter of enteracting with the environment and the result of biology.

Victor Von Doom
The thread is about a specific definition of history, not sure this is all on topic.

Capt_Fantastic
To get people to understnad that specific definition of history, it might require going "off-topic" a bit. It's all relevant to the conversation.

Victor Von Doom
Exegetical content is 'on-topic' per se.

Cipher
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I would imagine that history will end when there are no humans left to remember it. Since it is a concept, much like time, it requires an imagination to exist.

As for Marx, I think he missed, well, the mark.




Right on both counts........




laughing

Reborn Again
Everything has a beginning, therefore it must have an end.

Shades
If there was a beginning of existence, then what came before that? It's a contradiction. On the whole, existence as such has to be infinite - no beginning and no end, with everything inside of it being a continuity of one form into another - no seperation.

debbiejo
The finite has and end, but the infinite does not. Our bodies are finite, our spirit, or energy is infinite.

Reborn Again
I have a theory that such places like the Bermuda Triangle and Devil's Triangle are time portals. These portals transport people to the ancient past and they become our ancestors, and why so many ancient civilizations seem advanced for their time. They're getting knowledge from the future... So the future is the past and the past our future.

ms_erupt
Originally posted by Reborn Again
I have a theory that such places like the Bermuda Triangle and Devil's Triangle are time portals. These portals transport people to the ancient past and they become our ancestors, and why so many ancient civilizations seem advanced for their time. They're getting knowledge from the future... So the future is the past and the past our future.

Man, I'm really bad at philosophical discussions because I suck at explaining my thoughts in an intelligent and coherent (sp?) manner. (I have mild schizophrenia so my thoughts are kind of all over the place.) But, here it goes.

*tugs at hair* Will my dad STOP talking?!

Okay, say you're right at they are time portals into the ancient past and that's the reason that civilization seems to have just sprung up from nowhere, wouldn't there have to be, like, a beginning point?

Or, maybe everything just happened the way it did, then people were getting transported to the past which augmented history and had in shoot of into another direction. But, if that continued to happen, wouldn't we be FAR more advanced technologically today? Or, if you subscribe to the parallel (sp?) universe theory, there IS an alternate universe in which our time, like right now, IS very technologically advanceded.

*sigh* Sorry if that didn't make any sense. I'm just no good with this kind of thing.

As far as history ceasing to exist. If you think that history is important because it's a means to keep humanity from regressing then I suppose it would cease to exist if we were to ever attain perfection. But, what IS perfection? I mean, what is the perfect state of being? *sigh* Again, incoherent (sp?) rambling. I'm gonna quit now.

debbiejo
Some of this stuff makes my head dizzy..

Here's a question..What if through hypnosis history could be revealed through us. But that would be talking reincarnation..

ms_erupt
Originally posted by debbiejo
Some of this stuff makes my head dizzy..

Here's a question..What if through hypnosis history could be revealed through us. But that would be talking reincarnation..

Huh. I like that. (Man, I've been saying that a LOT in this forum.) But, it's an interesting concept.

SnakeEyes
No, because history is always being made, therefore, it will only stop when we stop existing.

Shades
History is imagination and interpretation - nothing real.

peterKSL
Originally posted by Shades
History is imagination and interpretation - nothing real.

Memory and imagination are very different things... confused

debbiejo
Originally posted by Shades
history is imagination and interpretation - nothing real.



Please explain..

Capt_Fantastic
Okay, I was under the impression that the term "history", at least for the sake of this conversation, was in refference to recorded history...not the fact that things took place in another time.

History in the context of recorded human history, will end when there are no more humans left to remember it, read it or write it down.

History in the context that things took place in the past will never end...assuming that time is linear.

King Burger
Originally posted by lalalala333
Ofcourse by the end of "history"I don't mean civilization ending,I mean will there be a time where there could be no further progress in the state system and economy because it has acheived it's maximum potential,and maybe even be perfect?(Well,probably not)Thus history ends.Marx said that,when a communist society is acheived(which I don't agree with) history would end.Do you believe that?


Well, lalalala333 clearly states that he is refering to things
happening, that is, humans accomplishing things, or to put
it more fundementally, to the human environment and
society being constantly changed through various types
of human actions and activity.

In that sense, history will never end, simply because even
if in some highly inlikely situation, the world creates a
Utopia, then history will continue on an individual level.
In other words, even if history ends on the grand state
and social level, it will continue on the personal and
familial level, with people doing things, making things,
giving birth and discussing new idea among themselves.

Ofcourse, if lalalala333 (I'm glad this isn't a verbal
discussion, then I'd fel stupid saying the name) is talking
specifically about scientific and governmental progress,
as well as economic growth, then history can end.

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