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my favourite creature has to be the balrog becasuse it has ancient powers that have all but left middle earth when it reaches the films or books only smaug from the hobbit could have rivaled so anyway whats your favorite from th orcs to the nazgul

My favourite? Melkor, as melkor, not morgoth.

I prefer the whole evil yet civil disobedience of singing out of tune and pissing everyone off, and breaking things to 'lets find a giant spider and eat some trees'

My favorite Creature of Middle Earth would have to be, Treebeard.

Because he has no problems, he sleeps all day, and he dosn't have to wory about anybody else cause there is nobody else around for miles except for that stupid quickbeam and he's just his friend...so it dosn't count...he's beautiful, and peaceful, and if he's mad at anybody, all he has to do is step on them...and Nobody could ever step on him...so nobody does.

I agree with the Inkeeper! Melkor is a very cool character. I'm also quite fond of Shelob... no idea why. I just like spiders.

ugh no i hate spiders fear i like shadowfax, i'd love to have a horse like that

I hate spiders too scared But I wouldn't kill one...bless I'm just scared of them. Errr my favourite creature is err.... *thinks* one of the fell beasts yaaaaaay! They are sooo cool, and KIND OF like dragons like the wings and stuff! Woo woo woo! haha sorry.... i'm in a type loads of stuff and blab on mood

Nazgul! Nazgul! Nazgul!

The eagles. I mean, come on. If it weren't for the eagles, everyone would be dead. They've saved Gandalf countless of times, and got Frodo and Sam off Mt. Doom. Eagles rock

SOLDIERS OF RHUN!!!!!!!! EASTERLINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mumukil and gollum.

Why does Faramir's speach to Frodo (EE) come to mind now?
cry

you know about the young man of harad?....

mamakil

they are awesome

About shadowfax - he was difficult to tame.

without a doubt the witch-king!

Originally posted by L&MI hate spiders too But I wouldn't kill one...bless

me neither.. i get everyone else to squish 'em for me!! muahaha

mine would have to be Tom Bombadil

Creature?

.. well he's not really human is he?

Elves aren't human either and are still no creatures

Well in the basic sense of the word, everything in the world would be a 'creature', something 'created', but that's simply not the way it's used

dontgetit

Exa's more proficient in our mothertongue than most native speakers

of course
im totally clueless!

Exa's stupid bag forget it.

no2

bag


What I wanted to say --
Some people seem to have a very unique definition for 'creatures', for example classifying adversarial peoples as 'creatures' to differ them from the 'own' ones, which in my opinion is quite offensive.

So I tried to explain the general definitions of what is when called a creature; the word coming from latin "creatura", based on "creare" meaning "bring something into being, form, create", hence the word means "created one" and basically defines everything that was created by someone - like God (Bacon: "God's first creature was light".

So sometimes it is indeed used as a synonym for "human beings" as creations (of God) like Easterlings are, parallelly to "wight", but normally only in a pejorative way so that it finally got the most common meaning as "animal, beast, brute", and the latter is where the Fantasy definition of 'creature' is borrowed from

Ergo when talking about LOTR, by the term 'creatures' people usually mean beings with non-human shape and often not capable of human language; Gandalf is not a creature though he definitely isn't human, Tom Bombadil is not a creature either, and the humans serving Sauron are definitely not creatures either, unless you use the word in the most pejorative racial way, classifying the others as lower than yourself to justify fighting against them with the most primitive methods. That's just... wrong.

The only way the people of Khand could be creatures is taking a look at the fact that they're "used to perfom unpleasant or dishonest tasks for someone else", the dictionary's third definition for 'creature', but thats not the way it was implied to be used according to the first post here.



To sum it up - Enemies are no creatures

Exa, you're not stupid!
You're too smart!

Originally posted by Exabyte
What I wanted to say --
Some people seem to have a very unique definition for 'creatures', for example classifying adversarial peoples as 'creatures' to differ them from the 'own' ones, which in my opinion is quite offensive.


Offensive to me too.



Ok, I'm probably not understanding some things clearly again but.., quick question...does this mean treebeard (or any other ent for that mater) is NOT a creature, because he's in human form(in a way) and can speak human language?
or does it just depend on how you look at it?

Originally posted by Smodden
does this mean treebeard (or any other ent for that mater) is NOT a creature, because he's in human form(in a way) and can speak human language?
or does it just depend on how you look at it?
Probably depends on how you look at it (I prefer simply not looking at it in any other ways ), but I wouldn't really call his form 'human' just because he has two eyes and two legs laughing by 'human' I also meant typical things like size (not more than 2m50 preferably ) or skin structure

Though I'm not really sure about anything like that because I never really use the term 'creature' ermm or like its use
I just wanted to point out that servants of Sauron do not necessarily have to be creatures, or that being his servants doesnt make them creatures

Originally posted by Exabyte
but I wouldn't really call his form 'human' just because he has two eyes and two legs laughing by 'human' I also meant typical things like size (not more than 2m50 preferably ) or skin structure
size! oh yeah. you know I was just thinking in terms of two arms two legs...ok

it makes sense when you put it the way you do.


oh, Ok, I see...

This is an interesting topic...
so I suppose orcs shouldn't be called 'creatures' either...at least not in the derogatory way, meaning 'lesser'...like you said in your other post.

Hmm....

First of all, like Exa said, it depends on how you look at it, and I choose to think that "every" living thing in Middle-earth is a creature, whether they be Nazgul, the Watcher, Balrogs, the Ents, Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Wargs, Orcs, and yes...Men. Meaning the Easterlings, the Rohirrim, Gondorians, etc. Hey, that's how I choose to look at it, so leave me alone regarding the "creature debate".

That being said, everyone has their favorite and all with adequate reasons. But my favorite creatures are the Istari, Gandalf the Grey in particular. Sent by the Ainur, can cast spells to open secret doors, knows where the best pipeweed is; gets to hang out with Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Men, Eagles, Ents, Bombadil, etc.; carries staffs, shoots off great fireworks; and can kick a Balrogs ass!! How could he not be great?

Originally posted by DCLXVI
Hmm....
Now that's exactly what I wanted to say
Originally posted by shadowy_blue
I choose to think that "every" living thing in Middle-earth is a creature
Respecting the actual meaning of the word, this is probably the most accurate definition anyway and the most tolerant or most 'politically correct' one ermm

!!
Great explanation ^_^
Originally posted by Smodden
Balrog's don't have asses.
They... dont? dontgetit

This is getting psychological, or rather philosophical
Whow. Good question actually
I personally think it's hard to define where one's 'free will' ceases to be free.
When one is locked in an empty room, permanently watched filmed by some camera, one is for sure the camera's object, is treated like a decisionless object by it; one is under the dominion of those who control the room, and unable to do much without them, dependant on them, and probably forced to fulfill several things they demand. It's the same for a dog on the leash, he (usually) has to follow his master's demand, is not free to do all he wants to;

But both would still have their free will, though unable to choose freedom or do what they wish to - their minds are 'free', but latitude simply cannot evolve because of the overpowering environment, being too strong for the individual or even the mass.
Does free will mean freedom of mind or freedom of hand?

On the other hand, it clearly says in the book that the orcs were direct objects to Sauron's will, forced to do all he wants - but would anyone noticed if some just weren't? Or if a whole group wasn't, thinking of the orcs in the Misty Mountains?

Then again - relating free will to 'classic creature-ness', not in the sense of puppets but the outworn fantasy definition, sounds pretty negative for others usually clearly counted as 'creatures' as in 'not-fully-natural-animals', like Eagles, who for sure had a will of more freedom than most humans

... I think I'll also prefer Shad's idea of 'creatures' laughing

AHHHHHHHHHHHH! extremely well thought out and long replies(rats gotta read all of it) !!!!!!!! I like the ents,since trolls are like supposed to be copies of the ents.

Originally posted by Exabyte
I personally think it's hard to define where one's 'free will' ceases to be free.
When one is locked in an empty room, permanently watched filmed by some camera, one is for sure the camera's object, is treated like a decisionless object by it; one is under the dominion of those who control the room, and unable to do much without them, dependant on them, and probably forced to fulfill several things they demand. It's the same for a dog on the leash, he (usually) has to follow his master's demand, is not free to do all he wants to;

Wow. Really good examples. And after reading your post it seems to me that the problem isn't with the orcs, but with the environment:



If the orcs truly are independent and able to make up their own mind, determine right from wrong...or have a conscience...then it is not because of themselves that they seem one-sided, and 'heartless', but it is because of the overpowering environment (Sauron) that dosn't really give them a choice BUT to serve him and only him....therefore making the BIGEST and possibly the most important decision for them. therefore (may be) taking away THAT aspect of their free-will.

However, like the dog on a leash, or the watched person in a locked room...a part of their free-will remains...letting them make decisions and choices themselves...so long as they meet with the requirements of the master. (Sauron)

Unless, Sauron really has nothing to do with 'free-will' at all, and is only someone of authority and power...for we ALL have someone 'over us', or in authority over us...(our parents, law-enforcement, the president, prime minister, God) and they really have nothing to do with our free will at all...???



Excellent question. And I must say my brain ached for a second when I first read it.

We cannot act(hand) without first thinking(mind) and making up our minds TO act...but we can do nothing about the choices we make in our minds without our free hands to act them out -to carry out the choices that our free mind has decided.

So, I think it's both.



Sauron's Will? shock *stores fact in my free brain*



Good point.

Also:
Certainly not ALL orcs are under Sauron. (are they?)



master/lady
and indeed my lady shadow are you welcome into 'the fray'



Another idea I thought of because of this, is that Evil, and serving sauron, is all they've ever known...from the moment they're spawned...till they die.



Souls! How could I have overlooked that in all this discussion of free-will and morality. tx s-b.




Yet another very good point s-b, yeah they ARE orcs. But wern't they once elves?
I'm a little confused about the early origins of orcs...but I'm pretty sure they were just corrupted forms of elves made by Morgoth...for the Enemy is not capable of creating anything original...he can only corrupt and mock things...orcs in mockery of the elves, trolls in mockery of the ents...
every "creation" stems from the original designs of Eru(?)(or God).(Iluvatar?)

But yeah, I see your point, the orcs are born into this world as orcs, NOW. and they really didn't have a say in the mater.



Well, define 'ass'.

Balrogs are made of fire and shadow, so...omg

/ ^^This could start another long discussion!

Unless, Sauron really has nothing to do with 'free-will' at all, and is only someone of authority and power...for we ALL have someone 'over us', or in authority over us...(our parents, law-enforcement, the president, prime minister, God) and they really have nothing to do with our free will at all...???
UUH are you trying to tell us to do something??? The Government IS OUR FRIEND! Puh trying to rebel against the almighlty government!

Originally posted by rohanspear543

UUH are you trying to tell us to do something??? The Government IS OUR FRIEND! Puh trying to rebel against the almighlty government!

Everyone has to submit to the rules of the government or suffer the consequences of the law.

But I'm all for being a rebel!!!

Rebel...you saw what we did to the south (me oc florida) what chance do you think you have! not with 10 thousand men could you do this rebel it is folly!

i'd have to say the fell beasts, the dragons the nazgul ride

1. The eagles
2. the mumakil
3. Shadowfaux

the Belroq too, he's pretty cool. It looked cool when he fought Gandalf

I love Shadowfax, she's adorable, wouldn't you just love a horse like that

My favorite creature is Undomiel

I have a couple of new fav charactares


1- Grima Wormtongue
2- Faramir
3-Eowyn
4-Eomer

Faramir a creature *cringes* What the heck?

ooops wrong place lol ...thats not haveing myglasses on ..

lol

lol