WWII- Questions?

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Frosty Beverage
I'm here to answer. And also bored, so bring on the questions rolling on floor laughing

Bardock42
What makes you able to answer our questions What the f**k?

King Burger
Who really won WWII?

Clovie
Soviets.

flashgame
I first come here ,hello everyone

Fire
Clovie I don't think the soviets are/were the real winner. They lost millions of people (altho the russians always lose big in wars -and their governement never seems to mind-) so I am quite sure that to the relatives and friends of those millions of casualties it did not feel as a victory. Then on the other hand with the forming of the USSR and all it satellite states they made an gigantic advance in territory and influence

shaber
A collectivist state does not worry about the individual so by their reasoning they did win.

Clovie
Actually. IMO they did win. The number of victims were very big of course, but accoring to what has happen later they've had the biggest profits from the war.
and the saddest thing is that americans and british allowed them to occupy half of the europe sad

shaber
"Europe" does not have a definite article in that context.

And there wasn't much of a choice by the post war stage!

Clovie
why not? it was my part of the europe so it is definite for me confused

i don't agree. they had choice. but they just didn't care.

shaber
The soviets were a superpower by then, a war with them would have been VERY costly and Stalin was a total loose cannon.

You don't write "'the' Europe," you just write "Europe."

Clovie
cry so what? they've sold us.

sure schmoll

Bardock42
Actually they really didn'T have much choice, what should they have done, fight the next war against the Soviets?

Clovie
YES

Fire
I know that's why I mentioned there family and friends, cause the politburo and all the other members of the party could think what they wanted the people still cared for their friends and family

Bardock42
well maybe then alll of europe and the US would have been communist, would you like that more?

Fire
Clovie fighting the soviets would have claimed even more lives. It is true however that in the allies and the soviets made a sort of deal about which parts of europe would fall under which range of influence (I think it was discussed by Churchill, Roosevelt (could also have been Trueman) and Stalin on Malta)

Fire
I think it would have ended in nuclear war

Clovie
they did
the deal was that it is where the armies are meeting, there the border goes
and the meeting was in Jałta (present Ukraine if i remember correctly confused ) not Malta laughing out loud



and NO. it wouldn't have finnished in nuclear war. Soviets didn't have technology back then. i think that if americans did it in the right way, they've could only threaten them and there would be no big war confused

shaber
Stalin would probably have started a war even before the soviets had stolen the nuclear technology. That way he'd still go out with a blaze of glory eek! messed

Bardock42
Well maybe, but it could have been very bad too, many people would have died, I don't think Churchill was in that conference though, neither was Roosevelt I belive.

Fire
Aah well one letter difference (happens to me more often)

The soviets were in full research of it (the americans would have had a massive static war on their hands, which they either had to win quickly or it would turn bloody, if the russians could hold the americans long enough it would have ended in a nuclear war)

Fire
They were all three present I'm pretty sure of that Bardock

Yalta Conference

Clovie
i know.. just a tiny difference wink


i didn't know they've been doing research already confused

Fire
(Sorry stated that as a fact lets just say its more of a hung)

dean7879
it was an aliied effort that won the war

Frosty Beverage
knowledge and lack of judgement.

Frosty Beverage
they lost the most and killed the most, so statistically, they won.

dean7879
thats crap
so they could of won the war on there own?
i doubt it

Fire
he didn't say that he only compared the amount of Germans killed by the Russians and the amount of casualties altho I dunno if it adds up

finti
they would have run over the Axis forces regardless of the allied invasion in 1944, point is that if the invasion of Normandy wasnt to have happened the Soviet forces wouldnt have stoped before they reached the coast of western Europe.

dean7879
nice avvy finti...maiden !!

Frosty Beverage
thus taking more losses for the USSR. Get it? The russians were the real winners, regardless of allied bombardments and invasions... As he said, they would have squashed the Nazis like ugs, bt at a bigger price.

Fire
I have to agree with finti

Frosty Beverage
about 2.6% of the russians that invaded across the Volga at Stalingrad were survivors.

so, out of 100,000, 2,600 lived.

Frosty Beverage
(hey, stupid. that's not good)

happy rolling on floor laughing

Bardock42
I think if you go by statistics we won the war yes
Well at least Allies - Axis statistics

Yes you are right though they all were in Yalta I was thinking aboot another conference that occured after the defeat of germany I think in Berlin but I am not sure, where only Stalin was left of the original three

manny321
THE FACT IS THAT the allies would have lost without the soviets help and the soviets would lose if they did not have allies help. They needed each other to win. THe soviets occupied most of the German army and the allies invaded from Normandy and destroyed the resources that feed the german army. IMO the US and USSR were needed to win the war.

Bardock42
I think every soldier on the allies site was needed not only the US and the USSR, that afterwards the USSR won the war by diplomacy is a whole different thing.

Clovie
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

why didn't they make that normandy invansion earlier? mad maybe i'd be living in a normal country then crying

Frosty Beverage
Yeah, weel the soviets contributed most. They woudave won without us. But after the war, it would make them really vulnerable. If they were aone in the Pacific, that's another story. As far as i can see, this discussion is about the War in Europe.

Bardock42
Well I guess you wouldn'T be "living" at all clovie What the f**k?

Clovie
why not? huh

Frosty Beverage
d-day was postponed for weather reasons, intended in may 1944. If they attacked in 1943, unprepared, what if they failed? then they'd be even more vulnerable. The russians arrived in poland in 1945. If th allies attacked normandy in 1943 and still succeeded, if we're using the same time-frame, they'd arrive in poland 2 years later.

What makes poland so abnormal?

Frosty Beverage
it doesn't amtter when they invaded normandy. The russians got into poland quicker.

Clovie
FALSE.
russian arrive in poland in 39, and was occupying us, untill germans hited on russia and then russians 'became' our friends and in 44 set us free. *coughbullshitcough*


40 years of communist reign no expression

shaber
With friends like the soviets who needs enemies? big grin

Clovie
in the name of that friendship they've been during whole that time taking stuff (eg. carbon) from here, and giving us lenin's biographies instead mad

shaber
It seems amazing that there are so many Stalinists here. What on Earth is there to admire about someone like that?

Clovie
the evilness i guess messed

Ushgarak
Are you mad?

Do you know how many divisions the Red Army had in Europe?

They were Stalin's unbeatable trump card. He could have threatened US, not the other way around. As if anyone had the stomach to still fight anyway!

It is hard to counter the idea that the Russians would have destroyed the Germans single-handed. As Finti said, the Allied effort shortened the war, helped set the post-war boundaries to acceptable levels, saved half of Europe from a different sort of tyranny...

... but the Soviets WON the war, no question.

Bardock42
Clovie if something that serious happened 60 years ago chances are you wouldn't be alive today, your parents or your grand parents wouldn'T have met or something.

And by the way Lenin is no where as bad as stalin.

I have to admit I don'T know a lot aboot the Polish History during that time but it must have been much worse than what happened in east germany

Clovie
so don't pretend to care when you have no ****ing idea.


not my half.

Ushgarak
So? I'm sorry but that's history- there was bugger all to be done about it!

Clovie
nothing. i'm not happy about that history. all. **** it.

Bardock42
I didn'T pretend I cared for your country What the f**k?

I would just like to know to satisfy my thirst for knowledge.

Clovie
so get a book and learn messed

Bardock42
well I can talk to someone that lives there, thats a primary source its not even funny how precious that can be

Clovie
so.. what d'you wanna know? messed

Bardock42
well what happened during the soviet occupation of poland thqat you are so absolutely hateful aboot it?

Clovie
a lot of ppl were killed, stalked etc
our economy got changed into crap
and there was NOTHING at stores.

and these are just the most obvious reasons

Bardock42
Is it still like that?

Clovie
no. now we joined the UE messed
and there is stuff at stores
but economy is still crap and ppl can't afford to buy it.

Bardock42
WSell since you joined the EU we hope that your economy gets better. You should get a lot of support, don'T you?

Clovie
should being a keyword erm

Bardock42
So you don't?

Well i know we pay a lot.

Clovie
yeah, we pay too messed

Bardock42
True but you should get some to get your economy going

Clovie
tell that them

Bardock42
I am not really in the right position to ask anybody anything.

I would though if I could, I think we should try to get the EU to the same level everywhere and melt them more together.

Clovie
sure

Bardock42
Was that a

"sure I sooo absolutely agree with you"

or a

"sure, leave me the **** alone"

Clovie
it was 'sure keep on dreaming that i'll never happen'

shaber
'that'll never happen' or 'that will never happen.' Both correct in every respect yes

King Burger
Three points:

The U.S. was the biggest winner of WWII. It emerged as the
premier super-power.
It had (for a short while) the only nuclear weapons in the world.
It's ecconomic and industriual wealth was equal to that of the
rest of the world COMBINED!
It occupied three strategic lands (Italy, west Germany and Japan).
It gained several territories in the Pacific.
It gained countless new bases in countries around the world.

----

The Soviets would've won the war in Europe by themselves.
The people who think otherwise, do so under two common
misconception:
First, that the Soviet army of '44 and '45 was the same as that
of '41 and '42. And secondly that Anglo-American strategic
bombing was decisive.

Both are not true. By the last year -to-two of the war, the Soviet
military had emerged as a highly effective, exteremly skilled and
experienced war machine. In fact, since much of the german
army had either been destroyed or severly mauled, the Soviet
army had become the most powerful (as well as second-best, after
the German) in the world. So they were capable to figthing
and beating Germany by themselves.
And as for US-UK bombing. German war productions reached
their highest point in mid-1944, the height of Allied carpet
bombing!

----

Clovie, it was indeed a terrible thing the Soviet oppression of
your country. But the fact is, compared to some other nations
under Moscow's dominance, you got off easy.
Look at the Ukrainian.
Look at the Caucasus, and countires like Armenia, Chechnya,
Ingushetia, and Georgia (the last not escaping brutalities,
despite being Stalin's home-land).
Look at Central Asia.
Look even at Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion.
What Poland went through may have been terrible, but how
many millions of Poles were killed in artificially-made Soviet
famines, like that of the Ukrain?
When was Warsaw carpet-bombed into near-oblivion like Grozny?
What percentage of the Polish population was mass-deported to
far-away lands, like the peoples of the Caucasus or Central Asia?
When was Poland turned into a fourth-world, near-stone age
chaotic mess, like Afghanistan?
I find the Moscow governent, both the Soviet Union one, and this
current post-Soviet "democratic" one, to be a vile criminal one,
but less for anything they did in Poland, and more for the things
they did else-where.

Clovie
"When was Warsaw carpet-bombed into near-oblivion like Grozny?"
in october '44 it has been totally destroyed.
"What percentage of the Polish population was mass-deported to
far-away lands, like the peoples of the Caucasus or Central Asia?"
i don't know how many exactly. but i know that my grandad was.

but of course you are right. it might have gone much worse.

Frosty Beverage
ok, yeah: about the poles

they had the most jews in europe at the time- thus making alot of people die.

they were the only countr split in 2, thus making families and friends split apart. The people of poland revolted against themselves.

Little phsyical damage (other than loss of human life), but much mental damage. I read a few diaries of the people in poland during WWII. It's frightening.

King Burger
ofcourse Poland suffered more than most nations during
WWII.
I was refering to rule under the Soviets.

BlackC@t
In my past life I lived during it.

Ah yes, back then we called it 'The Great War'...

It really was yes...

SlipknoT
laughing out loud

Bardock42
Actually the gresat war was World War Ep. I yes

BlackC@t
Not as I remember it no2

Bardock42
Your memory must be pretty bad then, I know I was there.

Capt_Fantastic
Wow!...what a fun thread. I only wish it was as relevant as some would like to pretend it is. Who won the war? No one. Everyone ended up ****ing each other in the long run.

yerssot
they gave WWI the name "The Great War"

dean7879
yep
and ww2 was the unessecary war

Bardock42
yes

Frosty Beverage
bump.

I'm bored again, so quiz me.

DCLXVI
World War II wasn't "unnecessary" at all. It had to be fought, to make sure that Hitler and his Nazi Regime was stopped.

Frosty Beverage
hit the nail on the head.

DCLXVI
wink

Bardock42
well the thing is that hitler and the nazi regime was unnecessary ....badabummmm.
Anyway.. I got a question would GHermany have won if he had kept bombing the british navy?

DCLXVI
That's a pretty general question....hard to answer.....

dean7879
Originally posted by Bardock42
well the thing is that hitler and the nazi regime was unnecessary ....badabummmm.
Anyway.. I got a question would GHermany have won if he had kept bombing the british navy?

too many ifs and buts
whats done is done

Bardock42
No n o no, that was noo real question just one for Frosty Beverage to make it think its important

King Burger
There was no way for Germany to beat the UK short of
invasion. The reason being that the US, even before the
Pearl Harbor attack, was already involved in the war with
heavy aid to the British.
I really doubt Roosevelt (who I heard was said to dislike
Germans) would have allowed the UK to fall. He would
have just increased aid, probably even sending ships and
planes.

King Burger
Hey Frosty Beverage,

Who was the best commander of the War?

finti
Martin Linge

dean7879
is he norweigen?

finti
of course, what you expect a swede

dean7879
i thought as much! ya big headed bloody git!
lol

finti
angel
he planned an attack on the geramns so perfectly, and everything was swell untill he was hit by a richochet and was killed during the attack, still the geramans lost their extremly important postition to an inferior force of so called raggled tagged Norwegian soldiers made up of fishermen and farmers(the german inteligent reports of the force), guess they foreott that those farmers and fishermens were of Viking inheritance

dean7879
perhaps rommel was a great commander for germany..ive heard is name mentioned a few times

finti
he was

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