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Who wins?

Wolverine.

Although Sasquatch dwarfs Wolvie in strength...the past has shown that he can take the beating and keep coming back for more.

Fighting skills too high, claws too sharp.

Sasquatch wins.

Just Bumping this thread so King_Mungi, jinzin and capt it up can continue this debate in the proper thread.


By the way, I vote for Walter in this one. Wolvie's vaunted speed and agility are not going to help him here.

Sasquatch as he has beaten Wolverine before.

Yeah before...But Wolverine countered Wendigo, the Hulk, The Thing and sooo...Wolverine has a chance here....

Not really, the more rage or damage Sasquatch takes the higher chance Tanaraq is released and just destroys him.

I just know some wolverine fanboy is going to come in here and say "wOlBerine bEaTed hULk sO hElL bEeT saSquacH tO!!!!1!! lololol

actually no. a good case for him putting sas down is the abomination victory. 3 slices and abomination fell. abomination is sas's superior in strength and likely in durability as well. if he can fall with some well placed shots, so can sas before he reaches the fabled tanaraq breaking point. odds of it may not be great, but if it happened to abomination, it could certainly happen to sas.

Originally posted by Hulk_Power
I just know some wolverine fanboy is going to come in here and say "wOlBerine bEaTed hULk sO hElL bEeT saSquacH tO!!!!1!! lololol
did u honestly just make fun of wolverine fans? please tell me u of all people the fabled hulk fan boy did not just make fun of wolverine fans

In all their confronations Sasquatch has dominated Wolverine and even Exiles Sasquatch killed her husband (Wolverine). Also Sasquatch when he first appeared was Hulk's equal, and has defeated an AR Hulk before. Also if past evidence is allowed it literally only took Sasquatch minutes to slip away.

Originally posted by leonidas
actually no. a good case for him putting sas down is the abomination victory. 3 slices and abomination fell. abomination is sas's superior in strength and likely in durability as well. if he can fall with some well placed shots, so can sas before he reaches the fabled tanaraq breaking point. odds of it may not be great, but if it happened to abomination, it could certainly happen to sas.

Leonidas, (great name by the way, I am a big fan of his work at thermopylae) could you post some scans where wolverine tooks out abomination in three shots for me please. It does sound like a case of PIS or CIS and I would really like to see that.

Here's Sasquatch taking Wolverine out in two hits
1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120-WolvieSasquatch.jpg
2. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120b-SasWolvieShoulder.jpg

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Leonidas, (great name by the way, I am a big fan of his work at thermopylae) could you post some scans where wolverine tooks out abomination in three shots for me please. It does sound like a case of PIS or CIS and I would really like to see that.

i saw the pics in a different thread, sorry kd. it was jinzin who posted the scans. no doubt he'll drop in and read this and with luck he'll be able to repost them, or tell you where he posted them. it may have been a little pis, but wolvie dodged a shot, got on his back and hacked away at the back of his neck. seemed to make some sense. it would be a solid place to attack.

oh, and if you like leonidas, you HAVE to read gates of fire by steven pressfield. seriously, one of the most historically accurate and engaging books i've ever read! it recounts the battle of thermopylae in a spectacular way.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Here's Sasquatch taking Wolverine out in two hits
1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120-WolvieSasquatch.jpg
2. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120b-SasWolvieShoulder.jpg

but how dod he grab wolverine? from the way he hits the tree, it looks like wolvie's back was to him. and what issue is that. i'm pretty sure i have it lying around somewhere . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
but how dod he grab wolverine? from the way he hits the tree, it looks like wolvie's back was to him. and what issue is that. i'm pretty sure i have it lying around somewhere . . .

Uncanny X-MEN #120, and Wolverine was strolling down the road and Sasquatch grabs him and just begins to bash him. It was also a building not a tree

Originally posted by capt it up
did u honestly just make fun of wolverine fans? please tell me u of all people the fabled hulk fan boy did not just make fun of wolverine fans

Yeah I may be a Hulk Fanboy but guess what? I'm not like you bunch of fuking retards that think of Wolverine as a GOD and that he can cut anything and beat anyone. I know who Hulk can beat and who he can't. I don't think of Hulk as an undefeatable creature because I know he's far from it. I know when to admit defeat unlike you bunch of senseless morons that think he can go up against Superman and Thor and keep arguing after there is nothing to debate anymore. That's the difference between me and you.

Hey hey hey calm it down, it's only a board ease up.

Originally posted by Hulk_Power
Yeah I may be a Hulk Fanboy but guess what? I'm not like you bunch of fuking retards that think of Wolverine as a GOD and that he can cut anything and beat anyone. I know who Hulk can beat and who he can't. I don't think of Hulk as an undefeatable creature because I know he's far from it. I know when to admit defeat unlike you bunch of senseless morons that think he can go up against Superman and Thor and keep arguing after there is nothing to debate anymore. That's the difference between me and you.
when have we said any of what u just said?
also i have seen u say some pritty dumb thigns in my time here.
also yes were not like u at all we don't bash people and say redicules things about people just ebcuase there fans of a character.

U wanna KNOW the real diffrence? we have class u do not, u will not find US bashing people such as ur SELF just becuase u liek a certian CHARACTER. what u SAID WAS NOT ONLY U BEING A HYPOCRIT, BUT U BEING BIAS.


also there no need for name calling we clearly know ur retarded u don't have to tell us it

Lol Sasquatch beats Wolverine against a tree and this time gets tired of fighting so carries him in his hands walks over to a lake and drowns him...................the end

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Hey hey hey calm it down, it's only a board ease up.
sorry mungi I thought what i said was not that bad seeing how he was making claims about wolverine fans just becuase there wolverine fans not becuase he knows them

No so far it's not bad, but it's getting close to the point where it can get way out of hand. Just wanted to stop it before then.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No so far it's not bad, but it's getting close to the point where it can get way out of hand. Just wanted to stop it before then.
I see. lets be honest though im not the one who will amke it out of hand we all know who will bring it to that level hell he alreayd brought it to that level and his name is.....................hulk.................power

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120b-SasWolvieShoulder.jpg

Right after Sas does something very similar to that to Wolverine (again) as I said before he'll just march him down to the river and drown the man.

Not too many guys can claim they knocked Wolverine out cold atleast twice. Cheap shots or not.

Originally posted by leonidas
i saw the pics in a different thread, sorry kd. it was jinzin who posted the scans. no doubt he'll drop in and read this and with luck he'll be able to repost them, or tell you where he posted them. it may have been a little pis, but wolvie dodged a shot, got on his back and hacked away at the back of his neck. seemed to make some sense. it would be a solid place to attack.

I just don't see Abomination being taken out so easily. I thought his healing ability was superior to hulk's. I may be wrong there.

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, and if you like leonidas, you HAVE to read gates of fire by steven pressfield. seriously, one of the most historically accurate and engaging books i've ever read! it recounts the battle of thermopylae in a spectacular way.

Read it twice, awesome book.bI read anything I can on Ancient Greece, Rome, Persia or Briton/Gaul.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Hey hey hey calm it down, it's only a board ease up.

Damn guy is comparing me to him. What an insult. I'm nowhere near close to being like him.

Originally posted by capt it up
when have we said any of what u just said?
also i have seen u say some pritty dumb thigns in my time here.
also yes were not like u at all we don't bash people and say redicules things about people just ebcuase there fans of a character.

U wanna KNOW the real diffrence? we have class u do not, u will not find US bashing people such as ur SELF just becuase u liek a certian CHARACTER. what u SAID WAS NOT ONLY U BEING A HYPOCRIT, BUT U BEING BIAS.


also there no need for name calling we clearly know ur retarded u don't have to tell us it

Wolverine fanboys have said some of the stupidest things I've EVER heard on these boards. So many idiotic and senseless things that I can't even mention them all but I'll just leave it at that. How the hell have you "seen me say some pretty dumb things in your time here?" Your ass registered March 26 and I haven't gotten into a debate since about December of Last year. What the hell? That doesn't even make sense. You haven't seen me say shit man so don't lie. And you don't have class. You guys have no logic or understanding. You all debate the stupidest things against some of the most powerful characters. Like I said, I know who Hulk can win against and who he can't. Wolverine Fanboys think he can even take Sasquatch? What the heck is wrong with you guys? Are you all retarded or something? How is he supposed to win against that? That just proves your fanboyism.

"also there no need for name calling we clearly know ur retarded u don't have to tell us it"

Said the kettle to the teapot. Me retarded? You're the one that needs to learn how to spell correctly. You can't even spell one fuking sentence without errors. For god's sake there's a "Spellcheck" button next to the "Submit Reply" button. Learn how to use it retard.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Not too many guys can claim they knocked Wolverine out cold atleast twice. Cheap shots or not.
sas has only done it once

i'm not saying wolverine would win many -- 1-2/10 -- i'm only saying its possible.

xmen 120, eh? i do have it. so wolverine wasn't ready for the attack AND it's old. it does matter that he wasn't ready, and for as many times as wolvie has been knocked out, he's also beaten cl100 opponents. if he can ko hercules and abomination, stand toe to toe with namor and hulk, it only stands to reason he would have a chance (even a small one) in this fight. in my brawler v wolvie thread, some gave him a majority over sas . . .

Originally posted by Hulk_Power
Damn guy is comparing me to him. What an insult. I'm nowhere near close to being like him.



Wolverine fanboys have said some of the stupidest things I've EVER heard on these boards. So many idiotic and senseless things that I can't even mention them all but I'll just leave it at that. How the hell have you "seen me say some pretty dumb things in your time here?" Your ass registered March 26 and I haven't gotten into a debate since about December of Last year. What the hell? That doesn't even make sense. You haven't seen me say shit man so don't lie. And you don't have class. You guys have no logic or understanding. You all debate the stupidest things against some of the most powerful characters. Like I said, I know who Hulk can win against and who he can't. Wolverine Fanboys think he can even take Sasquatch? What the heck is wrong with you guys? Are you all retarded or something? How is he supposed to win against that? That just proves your fanboyism.

"also there no need for name calling we clearly know ur retarded u don't have to tell us it"

Said the kettle to the teapot. Me retarded? You're the one that needs to learn how to spell correctly. You can't even spell one fuking sentence without errors. For god's sake there's a "Spellcheck" button next to the "Submit Reply" button. Learn how to use it retard.

I wonder who sounds dumb right now me or the kid flipping out and name calling?


PS ive been here since before u new about this forum

Originally posted by capt it up
I see. lets be honest though im not the one who will amke it out of hand we all know who will bring it to that level hell he alreayd brought it to that level and his name is.....................hulk.................power

First I made a simple comment of Wolverine Fanboys and then you came and attacked me. Looks like you proved my point.

Originally posted by capt it up
sas has only done it once I thought he knocked him out in the Wolverine issue. Maybe he just beat the crap out of him again, I don't remember.

I think it may have been another cheap shot though.

Originally posted by Hulk_Power
First I made a simple comment of Wolverine Fanboys and then you came and attacked me. Looks like you proved my point.
actauly ur comment was spite full and u were being a hypocrit. also u ever wanna debate me in a match i am all for it since u seem to think wolverine fans no nuthing ebcuase there wolverine fans and that u know all

Originally posted by capt it up
I wonder who sounds dumb right now me or the kid flipping out and name calling?


PS ive been here since before u new about this forum

I'm just pointing the truth out. That's not name calling. That's just being honest. What's wrong, no more comebacks?

You don't know shit so don't make any assumptions. You don't know how long I've been here even before I registered so don't say anything.

holy crap -- both of you take your squabble to the PM's. there's actually a decent discussion going on here . . .

Originally posted by Hulk_Power
I'm just pointing the truth out. That's not name calling. That's just being honest. What's wrong, no more comebacks?

You don't know shit so don't make any assumptions. You don't know how long I've been here even before I registered so don't say anything.
actauly what ur pionting out is that ur a hypocrit and a BIAS one at that.


actauly I do know ive been here longer then u have. hell i was here before there was a vs forum

Originally posted by leonidas
holy crap -- both of you take your squabble to the PM's. there's actually a decent discussion going on here . . .
hey not my fault he makes fun of people just becuase there fans of a certain character. oh well ur right I will just ignor him

Originally posted by capt it up
actauly ur comment was spite full and u were being a hypocrit. also u ever wanna debate me in a match i am all for it since u seem to think wolverine fans no nuthing ebcuase there wolverine fans and that u know all

Use spellcheck! I can hardly understand half of the crap you post. Anyways I didn't say you guys don't know anything. Show me where I said that. Besides when I start debating with one Wolverine Fanboy then all of them jump in and before you know it, there's five against one so that's not fair. Though you can't prove anything against me because I use logic and reasoning when I debate. Something you fanboys aren't familiar with.

Originally posted by leonidas
if he can ko hercules and abomination, stand toe to toe with namor and hulk, it only stands to reason he would have a chance (even a small one) in this fight. in my brawler v wolvie thread, some gave him a majority over sas . . .

KO hercules!? That's just fricken ridiculous! Herc's on Thor's level. There should be no way in hell that Wolvie could knock out Herc.

I have seen where Wolvie stands up to Hulk, and it just seems wrong. Writers have made wolvie a demigod to some and a joke to many because of these instances of "over performance".

It seems that Wolverine cannot sense Walter with his super senses. His speed and agility aren't near as a factor with Sas as it is with other heavy hitters because Sas has shown to have amazing agility for a 10 foot tall 2000 pound heavy hitter.

It is here that people will say that Logan will shred him apart with his claws and super speed, but I just don't see it. Walter knows what wolvie has to offer, and I think he'll be more than a match for Logan.

Originally posted by Hulk_Power
Use spellcheck! I can hardly understand half of the crap you post. Anyways I didn't say you guys don't know anything. Show me where I said that. Besides when I start debating with one Wolverine Fanboy then all of them jump in and before you know it, there's five against one so that's not fair. Though you can't prove anything against me because I use logic and reasoning when I debate. Something you fanboys aren't familiar with.
naw we just use scans and comic issues. also if u want to discuss this take it to pm's also u wanna debate me one on one im game.

Originally posted by capt it up
actauly what ur pionting out is that ur a hypocrit and a BIAS one at that.


actauly I do know ive been here longer then u have. hell i was here before there was a vs forum

I'm not a hypocrite or bias. I'm just honest. I know many people that would agree with me. You guys argue the stupidest things. If being honest is being a hypocrite and bias then I guess I'm a hypocrite huh? You got nothing to argue against me. Just keep your mouth shut.

There you go again, making assumptions. I've never how long I've been here so you wouldn't know now would you?

Originally posted by capt it up
naw we just use scans and comic issues. also if u want to discuss this take it to pm's also u wanna debate me one on one im game.


HOLY SHIPMATE! Spellcheck, nice post

Originally posted by capt it up
naw we just use scans and comic issues. also if u want to discuss this take it to pm's also u wanna debate me one on one im game.

Oh really well whatever you want. I'm game.

Originally posted by Soleran
HOLY SHIPMATE! Spellcheck, nice post
ur saracasim is not wanted

Originally posted by capt it up
ur saracasim is not wanted


Thats GREAT because it wasn't meant to be sarcastic.

Originally posted by capt it up
ur saracasim is not wanted

I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to gang upon you. It's just really funny that you spelled 'sarcasm' wrong at his point in your conversation.

Please get back on topic guys, you are ruining a decent thread.

Originally posted by Soleran
HOLY SHIPMATE! Spellcheck, nice post Originally posted by KharmaDog
I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to gang upon you. It's just really funny that you spelled 'sarcasm' wrong at his point in your conversation.

Please get back on topic guys, you are ruining a decent thread.

hysterical

Originally posted by Soleran
Thats GREAT because it wasn't meant to be sarcastic.
oh opps my bad lol

Guys this is what I wanted to prevent, it's a freaking board ease up. Plus I can admit it I don't have the best grammar or spelling either.


Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not saying wolverine would win many -- 1-2/10 -- i'm only saying its possible.

xmen 120, eh? i do have it. so wolverine wasn't ready for the attack AND it's old. it does matter that he wasn't ready, and for as many times as wolvie has been knocked out, he's also beaten cl100 opponents. if he can ko hercules and abomination, stand toe to toe with namor and hulk, it only stands to reason he would have a chance (even a small one) in this fight. in my brawler v wolvie thread, some gave him a majority over sas . . .

Oh yes he does have a chance, not just a majority victory.

He also pretty much manhandled Wolverine again years later
Originally posted by snoopdogg
I thought he knocked him out in the Wolverine issue. Maybe he just beat the crap out of him again, I don't remember.

I think it may have been another cheap shot though.

Kicked the crap out of him, not cheap shot.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
KO hercules!? That's just fricken ridiculous! Herc's on Thor's level. There should be no way in hell that Wolvie could knock out Herc.

I have seen where Wolvie stands up to Hulk, and it just seems wrong. Writers have made wolvie a demigod to some and a joke to many because of these instances of "over performance".

It seems that Wolverine cannot sense Walter with his super senses. His speed and agility aren't near as a factor with Sas as it is with other heavy hitters because Sas has shown to have amazing agility for a 10 foot tall 2000 pound heavy hitter.

It is here that people will say that Logan will shred him apart with his claws and super speed, but I just don't see it. Walter knows what wolvie has to offer, and I think he'll be more than a match for Logan.

Yeah that's how I feel as well, but I have a Sas sig so....

Wolverine's speed is also a non issue as Sasquatch has been shown to catch Northstar.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Wolverine's speed is also a non issue as Sasquatch has been shown to catch Northstar.

Indeed, he has caught Northstar multiple times in mid-flight going at hefty speeds trying to seperate Sasquatch and Aurora from each other as they were dating.

well wolverine can take fits from the hulk who is stronger than sasquatch so i think wolverine would be able to take his hits and also wolverine has tagged orthstar one time but i think wolverine will win since he can take his hits and get slash him alot to kill him

Originally posted by Hulk_Power
Yeah I may be a Hulk Fanboy but guess what? I'm not like you bunch of fuking retards that think of Wolverine as a GOD and that he can cut anything and beat anyone. I know who Hulk can beat and who he can't. I don't think of Hulk as an undefeatable creature because I know he's far from it. I know when to admit defeat unlike you bunch of senseless morons that think he can go up against Superman and Thor and keep arguing after there is nothing to debate anymore. That's the difference between me and you. Now just back off....You callin' us retards just coz we like Wolverine...Hulk is the most idiotic character..."ooohh I'm angry" *bumm* Hulk!!!!! And what he does is nothing really...Smashing,savin' nothing but a strong guy in awful colors....I suppose if you diss someone's liked character you should consider the fact that Hulk is just a lame biaaaatccchhhhh....

Originally posted by KharmaDog
KO hercules!? That's just fricken ridiculous! Herc's on Thor's level. There should be no way in hell that Wolvie could knock out Herc.

I have seen where Wolvie stands up to Hulk, and it just seems wrong. Writers have made wolvie a demigod to some and a joke to many because of these instances of "over performance".

It seems that Wolverine cannot sense Walter with his super senses. His speed and agility aren't near as a factor with Sas as it is with other heavy hitters because Sas has shown to have amazing agility for a 10 foot tall 2000 pound heavy hitter.

It is here that people will say that Logan will shred him apart with his claws and super speed, but I just don't see it. Walter knows what wolvie has to offer, and I think he'll be more than a match for Logan.



dude, NO ONE was more po'd that herc was ko'd than me! i've said it before -- if i could remove one panel from one book, it would be that one!!!! herc's probably my marvel fave (along with thor). all's i'm saying is we can't just ignore these types of showings from him because they HAVE happened often. hercules. abomination. wendigo. hulk. at some point he's beaten them all and gone 1on1 for prolonged periods of time against other cl100s. there's even a guardians of the galaxy book where he . . . .

battles GLADIATOR FOR SIX STRAIGHT DAYS!!!!!! (incidentally, glads DOES win when toward the end of the fight he BREAKS off one of logan's claws . . .)

anyway, there's just too much evidence to dismiss. you can call pis, but if you do, you're calling it on a wealth of showings is all. again, all's i'm saying is he has a chance. sas wins the big majority imo.

have you read bernard cromwell's take on arthur? the warlord chronicles it's called. pretty cool and again, very factually based and historically told. very different from any arthur books i've ever read.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Now just back off....You callin' us retards just coz we like Wolverine...Hulk is the most idiotic character..."ooohh I'm angry" *bumm* Hulk!!!!! And what he does is nothing really...Smashing,savin' nothing but a strong guy in awful colors....I suppose if you diss someone's liked character you should consider the fact that Hulk is just a lame biaaaatccchhhhh....

damn. dude, just ignore the taunts. anythng else detracts from this (rare) good wolverine thread . . .

Originally posted by drwerwer
well wolverine can take fits from the hulk who is stronger than sasquatch so i think wolverine would be able to take his hits

So you are going to completely ignore the fact that Sasquatch has thumped wolverine before knocking him out or physically dominating him on more than one occasion?

Originally posted by drwerwer
and also wolverine has tagged orthstar one time but i think wolverine will win since he can take his hits and get slash him alot to kill him

But it has been shown that he can't take Sas' hits (did you read any of the previous posts in this thread?). Do you know anything about Sasquatch? I am not trying to be a jerk, just asking a question.


Originally posted by Rewmac
Now just back off....You callin' us retards just coz we like Wolverine...Hulk is the most idiotic character..."ooohh I'm angry" *bumm* Hulk!!!!! And what he does is nothing really...Smashing,savin' nothing but a strong guy in awful colors....I suppose if you diss someone's liked character you should consider the fact that Hulk is just a lame biaaaatccchhhhh....

This entire post contributed nothing to this thread. Thank you for wasting everyone's time.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Here's Sasquatch taking Wolverine out in two hits
1. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120-WolvieSasquatch.jpg
2. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/Nidaime-Sama/X-men120b-SasWolvieShoulder.jpg
1)These pics were from a long time ago, way back when he was still getting the crap beat out of him routinely.
2)Wolverine's healing factor back then was 1/10 of what it is now.
3)Sasquatch sneak attacks Wolverine in the above pics. It was not an actual fight. Wolverine didn't even know what was going on.
4)A few years ago in Frank Tieri's run on Wolverine an enraged Sasquatch does way worse than this and Wolverine just laughs it off, not even slightly fazed by Sasquatch's rampage. He looks up with a big smile on his face and sys "Hiya Walt!"

I personally believe Wolverine would take Sasquatch because he's knocked out Wendigo twice (Would have killed him, but Wendigo is immortal) and driven him off when his claws had been broken off. Wendigo is not only stronger than Sasquatch, but a lot faster, more durable, and has a massive healing ability.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
This entire post contributed nothing to this thread. Thank you for wasting everyone's time.



you need to hang out here more, kd.

Originally posted by leonidas


dude, NO ONE was more po'd that herc was ko'd than me! i've said it before -- if i could remove one panel from one book, it would be that one!!!! herc's probably my marvel fave (along with thor). all's i'm saying is we can't just ignore these types of showings from him because they HAVE happened often. hercules. abomination. wendigo. hulk. at some point he's beaten them all and gone 1on1 for prolonged periods of time against other cl100s. there's even a guardians of the galaxy book where he . . . .

battles GLADIATOR FOR SIX STRAIGHT DAYS!!!!!! (incidentally, glads DOES win when toward the end of the fight he BREAKS off one of logan's claws . . .)

anyway, there's just too much evidence to dismiss. you can call pis, but if you do, you're calling it on a wealth of showings is all. again, all's i'm saying is he has a chance. sas wins the big majority imo.

Fighting glads for six days? jawdrop Excuse me whilst I throw up...

That's exactly what I am talking about. Where in any bio of wolverine does it state that he has anything close to Class 100 strength, Supermanlike speed (gladiator can apparently achieve faster than light speeds in hyperspace) and invincibility? Because that is how it seems when they do something as stupid as that.

I have no problem calling PIS on his wealth of such showings. Until they officially amp up his strength to at least class 50, make him as fast as at least Quicksilver and make him as durable as Juggernaut, the inconsistancies of his character are too ridiculous to ignore.


Originally posted by leonidas
have you read bernard cromwell's take on arthur? the warlord chronicles it's called. pretty cool and again, very factually based and historically told. very different from any arthur books i've ever read.

I'm not a huge reader or student of arthurian legend, but if you want an excellent read, try Valerio Massimo Manfredi's The Last Legion for some interesting fiction as to how the whole arthurian legend began.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Kicked the crap out of him, not cheap shot. Wolverine let Sasquatch kick the crap out of him and wasn't hurt at all.

Originally posted by riceroost
1)These pics were from a long time ago, way back when he was still getting the crap beat out of him routinely.
2)Wolverine's healing factor back then was 1/10 of what it is now.
3)Sasquatch sneak attacks Wolverine in the above pics. It was not an actual fight. Wolverine didn't even know what was going on.
4)A few years ago in Frank Tieri's run on Wolverine an enraged Sasquatch does way worse than this and Wolverine just laughs it off, not even slightly fazed by Sasquatch's rampage. He looks up with a big smile on his face and sys "Hiya Walt!"

I personally believe Wolverine would take Sasquatch because he's knocked out Wendigo twice (Would have killed him, but Wendigo is immortal) and driven him off when his claws had been broken off. Wendigo is not only stronger than Sasquatch, but a lot faster as well.

1. So what? Sasquatch has gotten stronger over time as well. They even fought years later and Sasquatch spanked him without even transforming into Tanaraq.
2. Doesn't mean he can't be knocked out, as shown multiple times
3. As his super senses can't detect him, but two hits out is a feat. Even Exiles Sasquatch has killed Wolverine who went into a berserker fury thanks to Weapon X
4. No he didn't, I have the issue.

Actually no he isn't, Tanaraq is above Wendigo. As he is the mortal enemy of the Gods of the Artic equal to them in power and they are the people who created the Wendigo curse. Also prove to me that Wendigo is faster.

Originally posted by leonidas
you need to hang out here more, kd.

A few people here would disagree with you on that one Leo.

Originally posted by riceroost
Wolverine let Sasquatch kick the crap out of him and wasn't hurt at all.

What? No he didn't, good lord. Uh huh he wasn't hurt as Wolverine was keeled over the first hit and then grabbing his head after Sasquatch regained his mind.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Fighting glads for six days? jawdrop Excuse me whilst I throw up...

That's exactly what I am talking about. Where in any bio of wolverine does it state that he has anything close to Class 100 strength, Supermanlike speed (gladiator can apparently achieve faster than light speeds in hyperspace) and invincibility? Because that is how it seems when they do something as stupid as that.

I have no problem calling PIS on his wealth of such showings. Until they officially amp up his strength to at least class 50, make him as fast as at least Quicksilver and make him as durable as Juggernaut, the inconsistancies of his character are too ridiculous to ignore.

that's what i'm saying. how often does he need to do these types of things before it is the norm, rather than an inconsistency? i'm not arguing the rationale, i'm just stating what's been displayed on-panel, in book, and canon.




i'll check it out. pressfield's take on alexander was pretty good too. not as good as gates though . . .

Originally posted by KharmaDog
A few people here would disagree with you on that one Leo.



but it's MY opinion that matters . . .

the jlakmc could use a guy like you . ..

Originally posted by leonidas
that's what i'm saying. how often does he need to do these types of things before it is the norm, rather than an inconsistency? i'm not arguing the rationale, i'm just stating what's been displayed on-panel, in book, and canon.

If they made him that powerful 'officially' I would not argue, but in other comics he has strenous battles with streetlevel (or moderatley higher) characters. That's just too inconsistant.

don't forget -- daredevil has beaten ultron and a diamond formed absorbing man. these street guys are taking over!!

Originally posted by King_Mungi
1. So what? Sasquatch has gotten stronger over time as well. They even fought years later and Sasquatch spanked him without even transforming into Tanaraq.
2. Doesn't mean he can't be knocked out, as shown multiple times
3. As his super senses can't detect him, but two hits out is a feat. Even Exiles Sasquatch has killed Wolverine who went into a berserker fury thanks to Weapon X
4. No he didn't, I have the issue.

Actually no he isn't, Tanaraq is above Wendigo. As he is the mortal enemy of the Gods of the Artic equal to them in power and they are the people who created the Wendigo curse. Also prove to me that Wendigo is faster.

1) Sasquatch isn't the strongest big man in Marvel and currently Wolverine can take that guys hardest shots, therefor Sasquatch's strength powerup doesn't mean a whole lot here.
2) It does mean Sasquatch can't knock him out, as seen in Tieri's run on Wolverine.
3) Yay, alternate reality. That Sasquatch is a woman, there are probably other differences as well. She also killed a mindless Wolverine, not a 616 thinking Wolverine. I seem to remember Wolverine messing her up pretty bad in Exiles anyway.
4) You are wrong. Wolverine did laugh off Sasquatch's attack. Read it again. I have the issue in front of me. We could probably get Jinzin to post the scans.

I dont remember Sasquatch ever stomping Wendigo, but I have seen Wendigo smack Walt around a lot. Prove Walt is more powerful than Wendigo. I doubt he is more immortal. Wendigo does have enhanced speed to a certain degree. He can run in excess of 50 mph I think. Walter's bios never mention his speed.

Originally posted by riceroost
1) Sasquatch isn't the strongest big man in Marvel and currently Wolverine can take that guys hardest shots, therefor Sasquatch's strength powerup doesn't mean a whole lot here.
2) It does mean Sasquatch can't knock him out, as seen in Tieri's run on Wolverine.
3) Yay, alternate reality. That Sasquatch is a woman, there are probably other differences as well. She also killed a mindless Wolverine, not a 616 thinking Wolverine. I seem to remember Wolverine messing her up pretty bad in Exiles anyway.
4) You are wrong. Wolverine did laugh off Sasquatch's attack. Read it again. I have the issue in front of me. We could probably get Jinzin to post the scans.

I dont remember Sasquatch ever stomping Wendigo, but I have seen Wendigo smack Walt around a lot. Prove Walt is more powerful than Wendigo. I doubt he is more immortal. Wendigo does have enhanced speed to a certain degree. He can run in excess of 50 mph I think. Walter's bios never mention his speed.

1. Yes he is, and do you even know who Tanaraq is?....he would destroy Wolverine. He doesn't stand a chance against him, you probally have no idea who he is. Even base Sasqatch went toe to toe with Savage Hulk for over 30 minutes.
2. So the fight lasted what, 2 minutes? that means he couldn't knock him out? Good logic.
3. Berseker Wolverine is said to be just as dangerous as thinking Wolverine. No she didn't want to fight him as Wolverine in her reality was her husband as stated. Even injuired she was still sure she would kill him again.
4. No he didn't, I have the entire issue. He said "hiya Walt" and then got more of a beat down. I even posted the scans in several threads

In a badly written story as wooden spikes implaing Wendigo and Sasquatch? both can take armor peircing machine gun fire, so why would wooden stakes injure them? Dude Tanaraq is older than the world, older than Wendigo by millions of years. Tanaraq has even had his heart ripped out and still lives, while when Mauvais ripped out Wendigo heart he died. Walter has shown to easily run 60 mph in snow for multiple hours.

Originally posted by leonidas
don't forget -- daredevil has beaten ultron and a diamond formed absorbing man. these street guys are taking over!!

And Spider-Man beat Firelord.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
1. Yes he is, and do you even know who Tanaraq is?....he would destroy Wolverine. He doesn't stand a chance against him, you probally have no idea who he is. Even base Sasqatch went toe to toe with Savage Hulk for over 30 minutes.

wolverine has on a few occassion gone toe to toe with savage hulk


.
Originally posted by King_Mungi
3. Berseker Wolverine is said to be just as dangerous as thinking Wolverine. No she didn't want to fight him as Wolverine in her reality was her husband as stated. Even injuired she was still sure she would kill him again.

I wanna clear this up a little. that was not beserker wolverine not the bersker wolverine were use to seeing. that was a fully animal wolverine. he was unable to even speak. He was little more then an animal. actauly the realility they went to the time was right after wolverine escaped from weapon x which is terrable evidence to use since he no were near as good as wolverine now, he was little more then an animal. also thats not 616 so it un usable as evidence also wolverine form 616 would kicked the crap outa escaped weapon x wolverine.


I just wanted to clear a few thing up im not saying who wins im just clearing a few thigns up

Originally posted by capt it up
wolverine has on a few occassion gone toe to toe with savage hulk


.


I wanna clear this up a little. that was not beserker wolverine not the bersker wolverine were use to seeing. that was a fully animal wolverine. he was unable to even speak. He was little more then an animal. actauly the realility they went to the time was right after wolverine escaped from weapon x which is terrable evidence to use since he no were near as good as wolverine now, he was little more then an animal. also thats not 616 so it un usable as evidence also wolverine form 616 would kicked the crap outa escaped weapon x wolverine.


I just wanted to clear a few thing up im not saying who wins im just clearing a few thigns up
Dude what comic dude Wolverine fight Savage Hulk? I'm not really an all out Wolverine comic collector.

Originally posted by capt it up
wolverine has on a few occassion gone toe to toe with savage hulk

I wanna clear this up a little. that was not beserker wolverine not the bersker wolverine were use to seeing. that was a fully animal wolverine. he was unable to even speak. He was little more then an animal. actauly the realility they went to the time was right after wolverine escaped from weapon x which is terrable evidence to use since he no were near as good as wolverine now, he was little more then an animal. also thats not 616 so it un usable as evidence also wolverine form 616 would kicked the crap outa escaped weapon x wolverine.


I just wanted to clear a few thing up im not saying who wins im just clearing a few thigns up

I know, but rice is making it sound like Sasquatch isn't a heavy hitter.

Her husband that she had to kill was a fully speaking Wolverine not an animal. She meet another AR Wolverine and didn't want to have to fight and kill him.
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Wild_Man

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Dude what comic dude Wolverine fight Savage Hulk? I'm not really an all out Wolverine comic collector.

there first fight hulk 181
death wolverine vs hulk i think issue 142( some thing like that) I have pics of the battle

wolverine vs hulk 6 hour.

wolverine vs hulk #8

wolverine hulk and wendigo ( not sure what the issue number is)

there may of been another fight

Originally posted by capt it up

wolverine hulk and wendigo ( not sure what the issue number is)


Incredible Hulk #181

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I know, but rice is making it sound like Sasquatch isn't a heavy hitter.

Her husband that she had to kill was a fully speaking Wolverine not an animal. She meet another AR Wolverine and didn't want to have to fight and kill him.
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Wild_Man
oh he clearly is a hevay hitter, but the wolverine she fought not her husbanned the other one was little mroe then an animal.

also neither are 616 so does not matter.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Incredible Hulk #181
i listed that one already there another fight.

it was bone claws wolverine wendigo and hulk but I can't rember the issue number. though i think that may of been banner hulk.

Thanks

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Thanks
welx

Originally posted by capt it up
oh he clearly is a hevay hitter, but the wolverine she fought not her husbanned the other one was little mroe then an animal.

also neither are 616 so does not matter.

The one where she went with Morph was more animal, the one she had to kill was just like 616 Wolverine but stayed with Alpha Flight. It was even 616 Heather and James that did the same thing as that reality

Originally posted by capt it up
i listed that one already there another fight.

it was bone claws wolverine wendigo and hulk but I can't rember the issue number. though i think that may of been banner hulk.

you sure it's not a what if? because I don't recall them meeting all again.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
The one where she went with Morph was more animal, the one she had to kill was just like 616 Wolverine but stayed with Alpha Flight. It was even 616 Heather and James that did the same thing as that reality



you sure it's not a what if? because I don't recall them meeting all again.
it still not 616. it another realility which makes it unusbale as proof.



naw im pritty sure it not a what if. it was pritty dumbly drawn but im pritty sure it was 616. ive been looking for it, but it hard to find

Originally posted by capt it up
it still not 616. it another realility which makes it unusbale as proof.

naw im pritty sure it not a what if. it was pritty dumbly drawn but im pritty sure it was 616. ive been looking for it, but it hard to find

That's fine, I'm just using examples of Sasquatch battling Wolverine.

Do you know roughly the year it was released? or the title it was in? because I'm stumped.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
That's fine, I'm just using examples of Sasquatch battling Wolverine.

Do you know roughly the year it was released? or the title it was in? because I'm stumped.
I know ur using it as examples, but people could also use that what if run were wolverine as death kill apoc,jugg,magneto and such if we allow ur proof.




hmm the year I wanna say 95, but im not sure. It was during his feral run when he had bones claws so it some were around 95. I think it may of been a hulk comic.

was it wolverine 172? it had af in it.

Originally posted by capt it up
I know ur using it as examples, but people could also use that what if run were wolverine as death kill apoc,jugg,magneto and such if we allow ur proof.

hmm the year I wanna say 95, but im not sure. It was during his feral run when he had bones claws so it some were around 95. I think it may of been a hulk comic.

but the examples I used have similar powersets, Death is completly different. So my examples are closely related to 616 not being stretches

I have to check this out, I thought I had all the Wendigo apperances.

Originally posted by leonidas
was it wolverine 172? it had af in it.

I have that as well, but it wasn't bone claw Wolverine or had the Hulk in it.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
but the examples I used have similar powersets, Death is completly different. So my examples are closely related to 616 not being stretches

I have to check this out, I thought I had all the Wendigo apperances.
actauly death wolverine abilties are the same as normal wolverines.
also that what if run was what if death wolverine had stayed as death meaning it is actauly more accurate then ur evdience since the realility was not changed till much later in the time line.

this is why using other realilites is unusable becuase crazy shit can happen in them.

well im off to go play war craft 3 because im hyper as shit after drinking my ice coffe. see ya later mungi and leo have a good one

Originally posted by capt it up
actauly death wolverine abilties are the same as normal wolverines.
Yes, even though Apocalypse upgrades all his other heralds, he decides to leave Wolverine as is.

Originally posted by capt it up
actauly death wolverine abilties are the same as normal wolverines.
also that what if run was what if death wolverine had stayed as death meaning it is actauly more accurate then ur evdience since the realility was not changed till much later in the time line.

What? I have seen scans of Death Wolverine shooting blasts from his hands and doing feats normal Wolverine couldn't do. No Death Wolverine has a different powerset, so it doesn't matter how much the reality changed as my comparisons had closly linked powersets. Death would have to have a different powerset to kill apoc, juggs, and magneto

Originally posted by King_Mungi
The one where she went with Morph was more animal, the one she had to kill was just like 616 Wolverine but stayed with Alpha Flight. It was even 616 Heather and James that did the same thing as that reality The one she and Morph fought nearly killer her. Done.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Yes, even though Apocalypse upgrades all his other heralds, he decides to leave Wolverine as is. He did upgrade Death Wolverine. He gave him back his adamantium skeleton and supplied him with bombs, energy blasters, teleporters, and immunity to Psi talents. He did not upgrade Wolverine physically in any way. He didn't make him stronger, faster, tougher, or anything else for that matter. No one can prove that he did.

Originally posted by riceroost
The one she and Morph fought nearly killer her. Done.

Wow if you actually read the story you would know as said she held back as she didn't want to fight. She held back since seeing Wolverine brought back bad memories of how she had to kill her husband (Wolverine), hell Morph and her have a long discussion about this.

Originally posted by riceroost
He did upgrade Death Wolverine. He gave him back his adamantium skeleton and supplied him with bombs, energy blasters, teleporters, and immunity to Psi talents. He did not upgrade Wolverine physically in any way. He didn't make him stronger, faster, tougher, or anything else for that matter. No one can prove that he did.

He bust through a titatium door while X-Man was holding it back with TK. You cannot tell me he wasn't physically amplified.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
He bust through a titatium door while X-Man was holding it back with TK. You cannot tell me he wasn't physicall amplified. Uh, Death Wolverine was equipped with explosives. He used them against Rogue too.

Originally posted by riceroost
Uh, Death Wolverine was equipped with explosives. He used them against Rogue too.

Once again explosives breaking through titatium doors while X-Man was holding it back with TK. I don't think so.

If it were the case that it was just regular Wolverine, X-Man wouldn't have even needed to hold the door, he could've just held Wolverine in place with tk.

Sasquatch. With ease.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Wow if you actually read the story you would know as said she held back as she didn't want to fight. She held back since seeing Wolverine brought back bad memories of how she had to kill her husband (Wolverine), hell Morph and her have a long discussion about this.



He bust through a titatium door while X-Man was holding it back with TK. You cannot tell me he wasn't physically amplified.

he had psionic failsafes.. TK wasn't doing shit... and admantium>>>>titanium... there's no reason why wolverine a guy who has KOed roughhouse with punches and kicks, staggered thing with them, hurt hulk with them, couldn't break down a titanium door with enough effort... hell even batman can kick down steel doors with relative ease in comics... wolverine doing this isn't that bad...


as for his enhancements.. again... lets say you were right and logan WAS physically enhanced... who took away those enhancements?

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Yes, even though Apocalypse upgrades all his other heralds, he decides to leave Wolverine as is.

no he upgraded wolverine.. he gave him an admantium skeleton and adamantium sword and some armor with special devices....

you want to use old horsemen to make a point but you forget the people he's enhanced STAYED enhanced...

archangel, caliban, etc etc.. so assuming you guys were right.. AGAIN I must ask who took away those enhancements?

Originally posted by KharmaDog
This entire post contributed nothing to this thread. Thank you for wasting everyone's time. Wel who asked you ?

Originally posted by jinzin
no he upgraded wolverine.. he gave him an admantium skeleton and adamantium sword and some armor with special devices....

you want to use old horsemen to make a point but you forget the people he's enhanced STAYED enhanced...

archangel, caliban, etc etc.. so assuming you guys were right.. AGAIN I must ask who took away those enhancements? Good point. No enhancements to Wolverine were ever stated, and after it was over he was basic Wolverine, just with adamantium. Which was the only real enhancement he got.

Originally posted by jinzin
no he upgraded wolverine.. he gave him an admantium skeleton and adamantium sword and some armor with special devices....

you want to use old horsemen to make a point but you forget the people he's enhanced STAYED enhanced...

archangel, caliban, etc etc.. so assuming you guys were right.. AGAIN I must ask who took away those enhancements?

What I've always wondered about the issue of whether Apocalypse physically upgraded Wolverine is how was he able to walk through Scott's optic blasts? From what we know of the power of such blasts and the fact that Wolverine has be knocked down by them in the past, then it would suggest that he was upgraded in some way (unless there is another explanation for how he accomplished such a feat).

That brings up your question of who took away said enhancements. To be honest I do not think that that question has been satisfactorily answered in comics as of yet. However, it seems clear that Wolverine is no longer able to withstand Scott's blasts as I can think of two recent occasions (the bedroom scene in Astonishing X-Men and the cave scene in X-Meneadly Genesis) where the blasts have been able to knock Wolverine back/down.

I just read the Sasquatch info....Made some research...Wolverine gets owned....Badly....

Originally posted by TheKahn
What I've always wondered about the issue of whether Apocalypse physically upgraded Wolverine is how was he able to walk through Scott's optic blasts? From what we know of the power of such blasts and the fact that Wolverine has be knocked down by them in the past, then it would suggest that he was upgraded in some way (unless there is another explanation for how he accomplished such a feat).

That brings up your question of who took away said enhancements. To be honest I do not think that that question has been satisfactorily answered in comics as of yet. However, it seems clear that Wolverine is no longer able to withstand Scott's blasts as I can think of two recent occasions (the bedroom scene in Astonishing X-Men and the cave scene in X-Meneadly Genesis) where the blasts have been able to knock Wolverine back/down.
Wolverine on the other hand has hand down beaten Scot before like in (a taste for vengeance from X-men lost tales #2)

yet here is an issue way before death were wolverine just stands there as scot blasts him and wolverine goes no were he just stands there.


please prove how wolverine was enchanced since the reason u give is because he took scots blast well he done that before he was death also as in the comic stated above.

Originally posted by TheKahn
What I've always wondered about the issue of whether Apocalypse physically upgraded Wolverine is how was he able to walk through Scott's optic blasts? From what we know of the power of such blasts and the fact that Wolverine has be knocked down by them in the past, then it would suggest that he was upgraded in some way (unless there is another explanation for how he accomplished such a feat).

That brings up your question of who took away said enhancements. To be honest I do not think that that question has been satisfactorily answered in comics as of yet. However, it seems clear that Wolverine is no longer able to withstand Scott's blasts as I can think of two recent occasions (the bedroom scene in Astonishing X-Men and the cave scene in X-Meneadly Genesis) where the blasts have been able to knock Wolverine back/down.

I liked Deadly Genesis too.

I say that Sasquatch just thunderclaps to finish this.

Originally posted by jinzin
he had psionic failsafes.. TK wasn't doing shit... and admantium>>>>titanium... there's no reason why wolverine a guy who has KOed roughhouse with punches and kicks, staggered thing with them, hurt hulk with them, couldn't break down a titanium door with enough effort... hell even batman can kick down steel doors with relative ease in comics... wolverine doing this isn't that bad...

as for his enhancements.. again... lets say you were right and logan WAS physically enhanced... who took away those enhancements?

Why the hell would Psionic failsafes stop TK as it has nothing to do with that. Thanks tips I know that, but did you actually see what Wolverine did to the door? Adamintium alone cannot do that. Batman is peak human at best, and a feat like that is PIS which isn't allowed here.

Who knows, but he was amped up.

Originally posted by jinzin
he had psionic failsafes.. TK wasn't doing shit... and admantium>>>>titanium... there's no reason why wolverine a guy who has KOed roughhouse with punches and kicks, staggered thing with them, hurt hulk with them, couldn't break down a titanium door with enough effort... hell even batman can kick down steel doors with relative ease in comics... wolverine doing this isn't that bad...


as for his enhancements.. again... lets say you were right and logan WAS physically enhanced... who took away those enhancements?


Guess it was his armor then, just like War Hulks. LoL please help me to understand how psionic failsafes protected logan from telekinesis not telepathy.

Originally posted by capt it up
Wolverine on the other hand has hand down beaten Scot before like in (a taste for vengeance from X-men lost tales #2)

yet here is an issue way before death were wolverine just stands there as scot blasts him and wolverine goes no were he just stands there.

I haven't read that issue. Please post the scans you are citing as I would very much like to see under what circumstances that occurred as Scott is able to control just how powerful he makes his blasts.

Originally posted by capt it up

please prove how wolverine was enchanced since the reason u give is because he took scots blast well he done that before he was death also as in the comic stated above.

The feat in question is the proof of the possible enhancement because to my knowledge Wolverine hasn't (and based on his and Scott's powersets) shouldn't duplicated the aforementioned feat. If you post scans from that comic we all will be able to see exactly how the fight took place and just how powerful the blasts were.

However, I think the majority of cases where Scott has hit Wolverine with his optic blasts (both post- and pre- "Death" have shown that he simply cannot take a reasonably powerful optic blast and not get knocked back or down.

Originally posted by capt it up
Wolverine on the other hand has hand down beaten Scot before like in (a taste for vengeance from X-men lost tales #2)

yet here is an issue way before death were wolverine just stands there as scot blasts him and wolverine goes no were he just stands there.


please prove how wolverine was enchanced since the reason u give is because he took scots blast well he done that before he was death also as in the comic stated above.

I don't see how you can think that to be normal Wolverine. Seriously. Your thought process is incomprehensible.

How, do you figure, can Cyclops' optic blasts crack Onslaught's armor, blast through Sentinels, knock Seninels back quite a ways, cut through Wolverine's wrist no less, and perform all the other powerful things that they do...and yet a 5'3", 300-pound mutant can literally walk through such concussive force?

I mean, seriously. It can be accepted that Wolverine can walk through non-concussive blasts, but a blast that is precisely designed to be concussive, and as powerful as it is...you just can't be serious.

Edit: Oh yea. And Sasquatch wins.

WOLVERINE DIES

THEN WE WILL RESURRECT HIS BATTERED BODY USING NECROPLASMA MAKING HIM MORE POWERFUL AND MORE DEADLY.

Originally posted by Soleran
Guess it was his armor then, just like War Hulks. LoL please help me to understand how psionic failsafes protected logan from telekinesis not telepathy.

I have no idea.. but that was apoc's explanation so that's what I'm going with.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Why the hell would Psionic failsafes stop TK as it has nothing to do with that. Thanks tips I know that, but did you actually see what Wolverine did to the door? Adamintium alone cannot do that. Batman is peak human at best, and a feat like that is PIS which isn't allowed here.

Who knows, but he was amped up.

PIS is totally subjective.. batman's done similar feats dozens of times.. there's absolutely no reason to call it PIS when the character consistently proves they can do something like that... IMO wolverine punching down a titanium door with a massive amount of hits isn't out of the question... in weapon x he jumps through 4 inches of "unbreakable window" ... like and i quote "it wasn't even there"....
probably the same reason why spiderman tossed wolverine out starks unbreakable window.

Originally posted by TheKahn
What I've always wondered about the issue of whether Apocalypse physically upgraded Wolverine is how was he able to walk through Scott's optic blasts? From what we know of the power of such blasts and the fact that Wolverine has be knocked down by them in the past, then it would suggest that he was upgraded in some way (unless there is another explanation for how he accomplished such a feat).

That brings up your question of who took away said enhancements. To be honest I do not think that that question has been satisfactorily answered in comics as of yet. However, it seems clear that Wolverine is no longer able to withstand Scott's blasts as I can think of two recent occasions (the bedroom scene in Astonishing X-Men and the cave scene in X-Meneadly Genesis) where the blasts have been able to knock Wolverine back/down.

I'd just like to adress. wolverine has remained standing on two previous occasions where scott wasn't holding back his blasts... hey i never said comics make sense I just read em...

Originally posted by Shinkuu
Good point. No enhancements to Wolverine were ever stated, and after it was over he was basic Wolverine, just with adamantium. Which was the only real enhancement he got.

see guys, that's all i'm sayin.

Originally posted by jinzin
PIS is totally subjective.. batman's done similar feats dozens of times.. there's absolutely no reason to call it PIS when the character consistently proves they can do something like that... IMO wolverine punching down a titanium door with a massive amount of hits isn't out of the question... in weapon x he jumps through 4 inches of "unbreakable window" ... like and i quote "it wasn't even there"....
probably the same reason why spiderman tossed wolverine out starks unbreakable window.

No breaking a titanium door held with TK by X-Man is not PIS unless Death Wolverine gained an upgrade as normal Wolverine is not capable of a feat like this. Batman kicking Hulk beating him is PIS, it don't matter how many times he does it it's still PIS as it's a feat something that his actual powerset doesn't give him that sort of strength.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No breaking a titanium door held with TK by X-Man is not PIS unless Death Wolverine gained an upgrade as normal Wolverine is not capable of a feat like this. Batman kicking Hulk beating him is PIS, it don't matter how many times he does it it's still PIS as it's a feat something that his actual powerset doesn't give him that sort of strength.

are you sure you're aware of batman's pwerset? chi amplification lets say?


for the hulk fight, I don't count that as it's not canon material...

and again.. When someone argues that they have seen evidence of something but that the evidence doesn't count because that character "shouldn't be able to do that" they need to re-think the premise of thier conclusion. A characters abilities are based on what he or she demonstrates he or she can do, not on what someone thought they could do at one time.

for tk holding the door... i don't think the tk made a difference considering logans failsafes...

Originally posted by jinzin
A characters abilities are based on what he or she demonstrates he or she can do, not on what someone thought they could do at one time.

Even if those abilities are inconsistently written by a number of different people over a long period of time?

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Even if those abilities are inconsistently written by a number of different people over a long period of time?

you're not being very specific... demonstrate the inconsistancy you're talking about...

Originally posted by jinzin
are you sure you're aware of batman's pwerset? chi amplification lets say?

for the hulk fight, I don't count that as it's not canon material...

and again.. When someone argues that they have seen evidence of something but that the evidence doesn't count because that character "shouldn't be able to do that" they need to re-think the premise of thier conclusion. A characters abilities are based on what he or she demonstrates he or she can do, not on what someone thought they could do at one time.

for tk holding the door... i don't think the tk made a difference considering logans failsafes...

and?...chi attacks only get you so far. He cannot move a multiple hundred titantium door with one punch or use a kick while being held with TK from X-Man. That's way over his powerset. Thus something like this is PIS.

Show me other times Wolverine is capable of a feat like this, as it happened just when he got an upgrade from Apoc. The proof of burden is on you.

no those failsafes are physhic uses not telekinetic

Originally posted by jinzin
you're not being very specific... demonstrate the inconsistancy you're talking about...

I'm not so much talking about wolverine as I am characters in general.

In one comic we'll see character A have a three page slugfest with a streetlevel fighter. A few years later we will see character A have a 5 page or multi issue slugfest with a class 100 character. In another comic we'll see character A once again having difficulties with a just above street level character.

For example, I did not see, but I heard that wolverine had a multi page fight with Gladiator. To hang with someone so strong, so fast and so resilient wolverine has to be a top tier character. Then we see him fighting much less impressive characters who he should completely dominate (but doesn't) if he had the ability to hang with the likes of glads. You get what I mean.

I find with many characters that have been around for a while that inconsistencies really affect how I view that character. Characters like Wolverine, Spiderman, Hulk and others seem to vary their abilities (or conscious use of their abilities) so inconsistently that I find it all pretty much ridiculous.

Does anyone see what I am getting at?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
and?...chi attacks only get you so far.

based on what?

batman can supposedly rend holes through mountains using his chi.. hell he used that very technique to take down a class 100,

Originally posted by King_Mungi
He cannot move a multiple hundred titantium door with one punch or use a kick while being held with TK from X-Man. That's way over his powerset. Thus something like this is PIS.
yep you're definitely not listening.. TK didn't matter it had no effect on what wolverine was doing.. none whatsoever... failsafes ensure that...
so basically all he was doing was punching through a door...
the guy's floored class 100's with kicks and punches.. why not a titanium door? hell sabretooth did that in his classic days when he had nothing but bone in his body..

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Show me other times Wolverine is capable of a feat like this, as it happened just when he got an upgrade from Apoc. The proof of burden is on you.

I just did... but here's another, wolverine kicked down a robot during the lazarus project which was so dense that his claws could barely penetrate through it when he first went toe to toe with it...

another incident was when he ripped apart a steel/titanium alloy training model infront of kitty pride while practicing with his bare hands...


no those failsafes are physhic uses not telekinetic
psionic is derectly related to telepathic and telekinetic ability... so yeah...

sure. that's why it's so important to try and look at the most consistent version of any character. you need to decide what are the 'highest feats' (out of character) and what the lowest feats (also out of character).

that's usually how i try and view any character in any battle.

Originally posted by capt it up
did u honestly just make fun of wolverine fans? please tell me u of all people the fabled hulk fan boy did not just make fun of wolverine fans

Originally posted by KharmaDog
I'm not so much talking about wolverine as I am characters in general.

In one comic we'll see character A have a three page slugfest with a streetlevel fighter. A few years later we will see character A have a 5 page or multi issue slugfest with a class 100 character. In another comic we'll see character A once again having difficulties with a just above street level character.

For example, I did not see, but I heard that wolverine had a multi page fight with Gladiator. To hang with someone so strong, so fast and so resilient wolverine has to be a top tier character. Then we see him fighting much less impressive characters who he should completely dominate (but doesn't) if he had the ability to hang with the likes of glads. You get what I mean.

I find with many characters that have been around for a while that inconsistencies really affect how I view that character. Characters like Wolverine, Spiderman, Hulk and others seem to vary their abilities (or conscious use of their abilities) so inconsistently that I find it all pretty much ridiculous.

Does anyone see what I am getting at?

i see what you're getting at but the same inconsistancies really seem to apply to all characters short of cosmic levels... I mean hulk can take down the entire avengers and FF and spidey at once.. but then he gets knocked unconsious by iron fist?


the same principles apply to everybody in comics that has a decent amount of showings.. I however don't feel the need to discredit feats that a character does even though the character demonstrates said feat a handful of times...

spiderman's strength level is pretty well documented but that's no reason to disregard that he can transcend that level to pick up subway cars and knock over train carts with a flick....

superman get's punched every issue.. but that's no reason to discredit that he can vibrate through attacks.. you see what I'm getting at?

Originally posted by leonidas
sure. that's why it's so important to try and look at the most consistent version of any character. you need to decide what are the 'highest feats' (out of character) and what the lowest feats (also out of character).

that's usually how i try and view any character in any battle.

yeah me too.... but the rules of the forum also encourage everyone fights at their best which makes things more difficult to guage... cause again calling something PIS is a copout IMO


hey leo.. why have you never had a sig made up from pics of the series 300?

I just that would be cool as hell.

Give it to Sasquatch do to his powers are based on Magic not science.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Give it to Sasquatch do to his powers are based on Magic not science. Now people are gonna start saying Sasquatch will beat the sh!t out of Superman.

series 300 . . .?

i just started experimenting with sigs. i'm actually having a good time with them! digi has been my sort of sig coach, so he deserves some credit too!

problem with USING high showings is that unless they have been consistently shown, you're inviting someone to scream PIS. it is a tough thing to avoid though, you're right. 'specially given forum rules.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Now people are gonna start saying Sasquatch will beat the sh!t out of Superman.

No, Superman is still stronger than Sasquatch and Superman is smarter and faster.

Oh and heat vision.

Burn hair, burn!

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Now people are gonna start saying Sasquatch will beat the sh!t out of Superman.



well, as tanaraq . . .

Originally posted by leonidas


well, as tanaraq . . . See!

Originally posted by Grimm22
Give it to Sasquatch do to his powers are based on Magic not science.

so are wendigo's... didn't help him
so are ghost rider's... didn't save him
so are ogun's.... didn't help him
so are kun lun's... didn't help him
so are wrecker's... barely helped him
so are ba-als... he's dead now...
so kierrok's... didn't help him either..

i'd call that some pretty bias reasoning...

Originally posted by jinzin
so are wendigo's... didn't help him
so are ghost rider's... didn't save him
so are ogun's.... didn't help him
so are kun lun's... didn't help him
so are wrecker's... barely helped him
so are ba-als... he's dead now...
so kierrok's... didn't help him either..

i'd call that some pretty bias reasoning...

Ghost Rider never was defeated by Wolverine.

We already know that in a fight to the death Ghost Rider would kill Wolverine.

Originally posted by leonidas
series 300 . . .?

i just started experimenting with sigs. i'm actually having a good time with them! digi has been my sort of sig coach, so he deserves some credit too!

problem with USING high showings is that unless they have been consistently shown, you're inviting someone to scream PIS. it is a tough thing to avoid though, you're right. 'specially given forum rules.

are you serious? you don't know about the darkhorse comic 5 part series called 300 about the spartans at thermopolea (sp?)..?

jawdrop

I thought if anyone knew about those comics it would be you...

Originally posted by jinzin
so are wendigo's... didn't help him
so are ghost rider's... didn't save him
so are ogun's.... didn't help him
so are kun lun's... didn't help him
so are wrecker's... barely helped him
so are ba-als... he's dead now...
so kierrok's... didn't help him either..

i'd call that some pretty bias reasoning...

Oh and Wrecker comepletly owns Wolverine when he's well written

ala "New Avengers"

Originally posted by Grimm22
Ghost Rider never was defeated by Wolverine.

We already know that in a fight to the death Ghost Rider would kill Wolverine.

it was a double KO... I didn't say wolverine beat him I said his majical powers didn't help, and they didn't...

Originally posted by jinzin
based on what?

batman can supposedly rend holes through mountains using his chi.. hell he used that very technique to take down a class 100,

yep you're definitely not listening.. TK didn't matter it had no effect on what wolverine was doing.. none whatsoever... failsafes ensure that...
so basically all he was doing was punching through a door...
the guy's floored class 100's with kicks and punches.. why not a titanium door? hell sabretooth did that in his classic days when he had nothing but bone in his body..



I just did... but here's another, wolverine kicked down a robot during the lazarus project which was so dense that his claws could barely penetrate through it when he first went toe to toe with it...

another incident was when he ripped apart a steel/titanium alloy training model infront of kitty pride while practicing with his bare hands...


no those failsafes are physhic uses not telekinetic
psionic is derectly related to telepathic and telekinetic ability... so yeah...

As he doesn't have the skill such as Ironfist has, so what would he hope to accomplish?

Proof he can do that? and who did he take down?

Yes it does, a powerful user like X-Man holding the door with TK woulkdn't stop Wolverine? Do you know who X-Man is? Show me where Sabertooth did this, as that's phsyically impossible since the old handbooks when he was bones was he had enhanced human strength not in the multiple ton range.

No you didn't, you state something without backing facts up. Was the robot standing was the robot moving? show the scans so we can actually see the circumstances.

PIS, he at tops has enhanced human strength not to that extreme level. Wait...no post the scan I want to see how big this is and how thick.

No duh as I said so how can those failsafes help him against TK, while they protect him against psionic attacks,

Originally posted by jinzin
but the rules of the forum also encourage everyone fights at their best which makes things more difficult to guage

That does make things difficult because, in essence, wouldn't that mean that Walter would always give in to Tanaraq?

To say that everyone wil fight at their maximum peotential sounds like a good idea, but it may also further complicate issues as to what is each characters maximum potential.

Or maybe I am overthinking this hole process

Originally posted by Grimm22
Oh and Wrecker comepletly owns Wolverine when he's well written

ala "New Avengers"

throwing wolverine away is completely pwning someone?

wolverine came right back.. need I remind you how that fight ended?

Originally posted by jinzin


yep you're definitely not listening.. TK didn't matter it had no effect on what wolverine was doing.. none whatsoever... failsafes ensure that...
so basically all he was doing was punching through a door...
the guy's floored class 100's with kicks and punches.. why not a titanium door? hell sabretooth did that in his classic days when he had nothing but bone in his body..

psionic is derectly related to telepathic and telekinetic ability... so yeah...


ok so he was enhanced apparently.................

Originally posted by jinzin
throwing wolverine away is completely pwning someone?

wolverine came right back.. need I remind you how that fight ended?

Oh come on?!? You seriesly arent going to be that bias are you?

You seriously think that Wolverine could take on Wrecker?!? The same guy who was destroying the NA until Spider-Woman used her sex powers on him.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
That does make things difficult because, in essence, wouldn't that mean that Walter would always give in to Tanaraq?


Yes, and the fight would be over instantly. Tanaraq would kill him.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Oh come on?!? You seriesly arent going to be that bias are you?

You seriously think that Wolverine could take on Wrecker?!? The same guy who was destroying the NA until Spider-Woman used her sex powers on him.

I've said it before I'll say it again.. i don't know if logan could beat wrecker on his own... but I'm simply illustrating that wrecker didn't completely pwn logan like you implies.. he threw him and then logan came right back ready for more fighting...
to make a more accurate assessment of how the two stack up to one another one on one i'd like to see more direct comparisons... and have at least one example of a berserker rage logan vs. wrecker.. cause it DOES make a difference...

as a sidenote
you ARE aware that iron fist has taken down wrecker and his entire crew on two occasions BY HIMSELF are you not?

Originally posted by Soleran
ok so he was enhanced apparently.................

no one is arguing that he was enhanced... hell we've even stated multiple times just what he was proven to have been enhanced with... biologically superstrength wasn't one of his enhancements and no one can prove that it was and no one can prove that it was taken away IF IT WAS....

Originally posted by KharmaDog
That does make things difficult because, in essence, wouldn't that mean that Walter would always give in to Tanaraq?

To say that everyone wil fight at their maximum peotential sounds like a good idea, but it may also further complicate issues as to what is each characters maximum potential.

Or maybe I am overthinking this hole process

i think it's a little of both.. but I certainly understand what you're saying and I certainly agree...

Originally posted by jinzin
I've said it before I'll say it again.. i don't know if logan could beat wrecker on his own... but I'm simply illustrating that wrecker didn't completely pwn logan like you implies.. he threw him and then logan came right back ready for more fighting...
to make a more accurate assessment of how the two stack up to one another one on one i'd like to see more direct comparisons... and have at least one example of a berserker rage logan vs. wrecker.. cause it DOES make a difference...

as a sidenote
you ARE aware that iron fist has taken down wrecker and his entire crew on two occasions BY HIMSELF are you not?

Wrecker fully powered is a hell of a lot more powerful than he is with his crew

Also, Iron Fist is badass.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Wrecker fully powered is a hell of a lot more powerful than he is with his crew

Also, Iron Fist is badass.
on one occasion wrecker was on his own after the rest of his crew were Koed and whatnot.. danny still held his own..

wolverine is badass... that doesn't do much to prove anything.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
psionic is derectly related to telepathic and telekinetic ability... so yeah...

As he doesn't have the skill such as Ironfist has, so what would he hope to accomplish?
WHAO.. what are you basing that assessment on? the guy took down ogun who makes iron fist look like childs play.. he took down kun lun who completely humiliated iron fist and his took the guy down AFTER the guy was uber upgraded.... his skill level certainly seems to be on par with iron fist.. his ability to manipulate chi is what's lacking.



Originally posted by King_Mungi
Proof he can do that? and who did he take down?
read the captain america batman no gadgets thread they have a batman chi bio right there in the last 2 or 3 pages.. read it...

as far as who he brought down.. try solomon grundy...
the other class 100 he used it on.. I don't know the guys'name.. but here..
http://img20.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc145&image=da4_batshots.jpg
he's also capible of majically healing himself through chi manip..

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yes it does, a powerful user like X-Man holding the door with TK woulkdn't stop Wolverine? Do you know who X-Man is? Show me where Sabertooth did this, as that's phsyically impossible since the old handbooks when he was bones was he had enhanced human strength not in the multiple ton range.
sure I do, but a failsafe that neglects his powers makes him no so threatening.. sorry sad but true.. again this was apocs explanation... so that's what I'm going with not what people wished had happened..
the door feat is something he did before his conflict with sunspot but i don't have scans.. however...
the handbooks were wrong!
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4741967\
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4741968
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4741979

they're only physically impossible if you think the handbooks are gospel truth.. ask darkcrawler something about that.. i'm sure he'll enlighten you..

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No you didn't, you state something without backing facts up. Was the robot standing was the robot moving? show the scans so we can actually see the circumstances.
sure I did.. i just gave yo a plethora of examples... i don't have scans but I'm sure capt it up acan give you the issue numbners if you ask him....

Originally posted by King_Mungi
PIS, he at tops has enhanced human strength not to that extreme level. Wait...no post the scan I want to see how big this is and how thick. easy to call something PIS every time you don't like it..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Wolverine/5820550d.jpg
if you look closely he caves in the things face and then crushes the metal vertebre with his fingers alone....

seriously.. the guy has hit people hard enough to make their bodies cause craters in concrete.. UNDERWATER... you think he can't punch down a titanium door?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
No duh as I said so how can those failsafes help him against TK, while they protect him against psionic attacks, because DUH tk is directly related to psionic abilities..

Originally posted by jinzin
As he doesn't have the skill such as Ironfist has, so what would he hope to accomplish?

WHAO.. what are you basing that assessment on? the guy took down ogun who makes iron fist look like childs play.. he took down kun lun who completely humiliated iron fist and his took the guy down AFTER the guy was uber upgraded.... his skill level certainly seems to be on par with iron fist.. his ability to manipulate chi is what's lacking.

read the captain america batman no gadgets thread they have a batman chi bio right there in the last 2 or 3 pages.. read it...


as far as who he brought down.. try solomon grundy...
the other class 100 he used it on.. I don't know the guys'name.. but here..
http://img20.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc145&image=da4_batshots.jpg
he's also capible of majically healing himself through chi manip..

sure I do, but a failsafe that neglects his powers makes him no so threatening.. sorry sad but true.. again this was apocs explanation... so that's what I'm going with not what people wished had happened..
the door feat is something he did before his conflict with sunspot but i don't have scans.. however...
the handbooks were wrong!
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4741967\
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4741968
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4741979


they're only physically impossible if you think the handbooks are gospel truth.. ask darkcrawler something about that.. i'm sure he'll enlighten you..


sure I did.. i just gave yo a plethora of examples... i don't have scans but I'm sure capt it up acan give you the issue numbners if you ask him....


easy to call something PIS every time you don't like it..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Wolverine/5820550d.jpg
if you look closely he caves in the things face and then crushes the metal vertebre with his fingers alone....


seriously.. the guy has hit people hard enough to make their bodies cause craters in concrete.. UNDERWATER... you think he can't punch down a titanium door?

because DUH tk is directly related to psionic abilities..

I'm talking about Batman with his skill level with chi manipulation. He isn't on par with Iron Fist so how could he break down titatium without PIS? Now your exagerating, Wolverine skill level is great, but not his chi manipulation and that was my point.

No post the scans that state it here

You do realize Solomon Grudy has also been taken down by Green Arrow and his power level increase/decreases with each incarnation. Also didn't you just say earlier his battle with Hulk is not canon. Honestly how could Batman compete realistically with a person that took on the JLA and Superman himself. Ummm...those arn't chi attacks, those are martial arts moves. Show me where he has healed himself with chi

Uhhh! it's like your not listening. Show me scans, I can spout things off but scans make it valid.

Huh? after seeing that I'm not impressed as Cap has done that as well. He went inbetween the vertebrae and it's a training robot. So your telling him his adamintium claws did less damage than him just using his hands? haha yeah silly me for calling it PIS.

The failsafe blocked his tp ability to use on Wolverine not his tk ability to use on the door. Get it? Rogue fight doesn't prove much as he jumped her and doesn't prove he can press multiple tons. Second pic you know what sort of strength you need to do something like that? way more strength than Sabertooth has. With Warbird Cap has lifted building beams as well, and how much does a beam weigh? Even oldschool Sabertooth got beaten by Blackcat

No it's not, try again. Psionic is linked to telepathy
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=psionic