Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=221213&categoryID=4&IsSticky=0&Mytoken=20050305102842

idiots will remain idiots.

read the first page and got bored/confused

any1 wanna give me the general jist? usually i read stuff, but that looked like it was goin nowhere....sum1 dont like rock tho

I read about three posts... meh.

retarded

it looks like spam to me...

how is it spam?

its spam as in..."look at this interesting site...that i have nothing to do with...honest..."

no, spam is advertising something or posting nonsense over and over again. this is just showing the stupidity in people.

i dont understand a single word of that

ronny

as in advertising a forum...by posting a link to it

Armenia how are you?

i doubt anyone here would want to join a forum that uses that kind of talk

...good point

im good, you?

Morons.

Working hard in school which is horrible

yea...

yes...

What does that link have to do with music?

My link is not an advertisement or an endorsement or anything. I just wanted to show you guys this thread where some guy said rock is very overrated.
Personally, I don't think rock is overrated it's impossible to say that. Rock isn't some tangible thing, it's a style of expression. It's without form or physical presence and it's quality like any art is based on the skill of the performer. I do think though that most rock musicians and writers are overrated. But you can say that about any genre.

Gotcha.

how so?

... Its so bad it makes me want to listen to Britney Spears to wash my brain out

*long sigh* I think the guy has a point. Though I think the object of his criticism should be rock musicians

I was wondering why you posted that link as I saw just a bunch of verbal attacks going back and forth from that site, after you gave an explanation, I understood why you posted it.

indeed

Dumbasses

How are people dumbasses for thinking rock is overrated?

Well?

Originally posted by GABRIEL05
*long sigh* I think the guy has a point. Though I think the object of his criticism should be rock musicians why?

Originally posted by GABRIEL05
How are people dumbasses for thinking rock is overrated?

Hey sweetheart http://nin.com/ take a looksie

see what real music is...

Originally posted by Ronny
Hey sweetheart http://nin.com/ take a looksie

see what real music is...

Likewise

YOu should listen to Bartoks Romanian dances or go here

https://www.woodyshaw.com/video/stepping_stones.asf


But c'mon the least you could do for your cause is post a link to Led Zepplin, Jimi or even Radiohead would have been an acceptable example of "rock" and all it's many sub-genres, but NIN?

What do you have against rock?

Sure rock is overrated, but is there any type of popular music that isn't?

Originally posted by Ronny
What do you have against rock?

It's usually not done very well. But in it's defense it has a bad reputation.

I have nothing against rock the music.

Originally posted by GABRIEL05
It's usually not done very well. But in it's defense it has a bad reputation.

I have nothing against rock the music. the bad reputation is a passing fad on mtv. turn of the television and turn on the radio

The radio plays a lot of the same bullshit MTV does

not if you listen to the right station

Ehh... I've found that all rock stations play pretty much the same music within very narrow variations, with very few exceptions.

hmm. theres one here that rarely plays bad music

The radio station I listen to is decent, but commercial rock these days goes beyond pop bands... There's so much great music that NEVER gets played on the radio.

To true

only what the media wants us to hear

Originally posted by GABRIEL05
But c'mon the least you could do for your cause is post a link to Led Zepplin, Jimi or even Radiohead would have been an acceptable example of "rock" and all it's many sub-genres, but NIN?

Whats wrong with NIN? They are, arguably, this generation's Zep.

I laugh at the notion "Rock is overrated".

As far as NIN being this generation's Led Zeppelin, doubt it. Trent is one man, he's a very talented one man but he's no Tool. A band who I believe hold more right to that title.

-AC

They were a bunch on socially retarded f**kers

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As far as NIN being this generation's Led Zeppelin, doubt it. Trent is one man, he's a very talented one man but he's no Tool. A band who I believe hold more right to that title.

-AC

I know a hell of a lot of people who would disagree with you, hence the 'arguably' part.

I like Tool more than NIN, always have, and they have produced some material that is quite easily superior to NIN, but I have to say I hold Trent in much higher individual regard than Justin, Danny, Adam and even Maynard. Trent made Pretty Hate Machine, one of the most influencial and important albums of the last two decades, entirely on his own. No band, no backing singers, no high-paid editors, just him. That is one hell of an achievement. He is a musical genius, no two ways about it. I see absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be up there with Zeppelin and Hendrix and what not.

Well to be perfectly honest, I like Pretty Hate Machine and I really like The Downward Spiral. PHM sounded like it was recorded in an echoey room, the drums sounded like a bee trying to get out of a paper bag. He hadn't found out that doing EVERYTHING alone with little production doesn't pay off. Hence why there are loads of people on the credits on The Fragile. He even CO-wrote songs and had people playing on the albums after PHM.

However, I don't believe Trent become someone who ranked up really high until he put out The Fragile. The Fragile is why I love NIN SO much. If he put out another TDS I can't say I'd hold him in as high regard. The fact that he does do it on his own doesn't blind me to the music he puts out. He's had one influencial INDUSTRIAL record, another record that was famous for a couple of songs and then the sprawling, soundscape genius double album.

Up there with Hendrix? Hardly. NOBODY will ever be able to do what Hendrix did, Billy Corgan can already do what Trent does, and do it better. He's a better pianist and one of the best technical guitarists there is (See most of Mellon Collie).

-AC

He had no money at the time, you really can't blame him for that.

I disagree. The Downward Spiral was the album that really put him on the map. All albums that people aren't familiar with are remembered by the big songs. People who don't have TDS will know Closer, Hurt and March Of The Pigs, people who don't have The Fragile will know The Day The World Went Away, We're In This Together and Into The Void. Point is, TDS was a huge critical success, and it sold a whole bunch too. In fact I think it's definitely a better album than The Fragile overall.

Well seeing as in my view what Hendrix did was become overrated by writing average songs that came packaged with some admittedly stunning guitar work, I don't see why.

I don't know about that, the only piano-based songs Trent has played have been deliberately very simple. He's been playing piano since he was very very young. Billy Corgan could not produce something as huge and powerful as say The Fragile with the amount of independence Trent has. No way.

With regards to Billy/Trent. He's already put out Mellon Collie. I think that album is better than anything Trent has ever put out, by far. Trent doesn't drum on his own. Neither does Billy. If Billy wanted to put together an album with just him and Jimmy C he could do so.

I think The Fragile is NIN/Trent's best work, I don't think it will be surpassed because for one, it's a double album full of genius. It's hard to surpass that with a single album. I don't think he should be mentioned in the same vein as Hendrix. He's a genius, extremely talented, however when you get deep down, the music is TECHNICALLY nothing amazing. Not that it matters, coz I love it, but the guitar is simple, piano is simple, drums are simple. You can't say the same with a Smashing Pumpkins record. Trent isn't nearly as apt on a guitar as Corgan, arguably on piano either. So how he ranks with the semi-official best guitarist of all time, I don't get.

-AC

Mellon Collie suffers from the same problem as The Fragile; with 20+ songs, the odd filler track is inevitable. It is better than anything Trent has done, with the exception of TDS. Sure Billy could, but who's to say it would be good?

I've always had the opinion that The Fragile was just an elongated version of TDS with a slightly altered atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, I love The Fragile, it's certainly one of my 50 favorite albums of all time, but TDS has almost everything The Fragile has technically, and everything it has musically. It's also darker, faster paced and never runs out of steam like The Fragile does half way through the right disc.

I'm sorry, but complexity does not make music good. It can make good music, but just because something has more time changes or lengthy guitar solos, it doesn't mean it's superior. Anyway, Trent Reznor has an eye for a hook that is completely unequalled by all but a few, and that is an amazing gift in its self. I mean how does he know what other people are going to find catchy? Musical gifts come in all kinds of sizes and shapes, and to put it literally, while Hendrix's might be a circle and Trent's might be a square, they are still equally as gifted, just in different ways. This has nothing to do with guitars, that's way too specific.

Mellon Collie not being as good as TDS is your opinion.

TDS and The Fragile both deal with one recurring theme, well TDS tells a story whilst The Fragile deals with human fragility pretty much. I think that as with all NIN, you can tell it's NIN. I don't think they're similar at all though. Not completely different but not similar.

If you read what I wrote, I said complexity doesn't matter. However, when we're talking about musicianship it does. I believe Billy and Hendrix put out MUCH better music than Trent. Comparing Billy to Trent is to me, giving Trent too much credit.

I don't think him and Hendrix are equally as talented. Trent is never gonna be as revered, remembered or acclaimed as Hendrix because masters of the art recognise that what Hendrix did is unparalleled. The very fact that I can make an incredibly strong case as to why Billy is better, shows that Trent doesn't deserve to be put in the same vein as Hendrix. TDS isn't a very CONSISTANT album. It has songs that I can gladly skip, not saying I can't do that on The Fragile but on a single album, having tracks that you sometimes wanna skip, isn't a good thing. I've never had that with Billy Corgan. When you compared PHM, TDS and The Fragile to Gish, Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie, I think Billy takes it on all of them, except maybe the first one.

-AC

Oh yeah, I read it wrong. Must be the cocaine, I knew I shouldn't have trusted that Albanian guy.

Well, honestly apart from the seven CD's of his music I have and love, I know very little about Corgan, so I won't push my luck. That sounded quite scary anyway.

In my view,

PHM, TDS & TF > Gish, Adore, Machina
PHM, TF < Siamese Dream, Mellon Collie
TDS > Gish, Siamese Dream, Mellon Collie (just), Adore, Machina

Pisces Iscariot > Broken, Fixed, FDTS, TFA etc.

I'm aware that you know of Corgan's work, wasn't trying to suggest otherwise.

Just think Trent has got a bit of overhype due to new album.

I think Mellon Collie is better than TDS coz I think The Fragile is much better and Mellon Collie is much better than that.

-AC

No no I wasn't being sarcastic, I seriously know very little about Corgan as individual. I've never seen him live and apart from the Pumpkins I've never really taken much of an interest in him.

If you'd have asked me the same thing 3 years ago, I would have responded the same way.

Mellon Collie & TDS are close, but TDS is more powerful. Mellon Collie has parts which are just well...wussy. James Iha should never be allowed to sing, he turns songs to sappy, gooey love-mush.

That's one song.

Nothing wussy about Mellon Collie in my opinion.

-AC

I would exorcise that song off the cd if possible, expletive-ing hate it.

THis thread didn''t go quite as well as I wanted it to go.