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Can you change your reality???

Have you ever noticed that when you are in a great mood, that everything seems to go your way? You get great parking spots, or things just seem to fall into your lap.

And when you're in a crappy mood, depressed, angry, resentful, unforgiving, that things only get worse?

It's called the "Law of Attraction." You attract what you put out with your thoughts, and then it becomes a reality. It's also referred to as "Holographic Time. or Quantum Thinking."

I've noticed this principle...Have you?

No

Nah. I just blame it on good/bad luck (don't turn this into some "does luck exist" discussion), and move on.

The reality is subjective in the first place - its different for each individual, so yeah i guess you can change the point on which you view it.

This of course brings up another question....is there luck?

Not according to these principles..It's not just luck. It's purposeful action on your part.

I noticed it... Experienced it a lot...

There is a way to counter it though...

The only reason you have a streak of bad luck, is that it is on your mind, and affects your concentration... One of the way to counter it is to forget, and live on the rest of the day like nothing happened...

orrr..........that is Bullshit, one or the other.

I have purposefully experience this phenomenon, and decided to study it out.

I have found that I do attract what I think about.

Hmm that is great maybe you are psychic or even a psycho

Don't mind Bardock deb.. he's a virus... always is...

Nope, anyone can purposefully create their reality. Haven't you noticed things always happen to real negative people?

Nope

And I am not a virus....or am I

you are... lol..

Originally posted by debbiejo
Nope, anyone can purposefully create their reality. Haven't you noticed things always happen to real negative people?

Not only that things happen to others too not just negative people.JM

you can change your perception, that is about as much as you can do in the case of changing reality.

Not in my present development.

Try drugs, it worked for Syd Barrett.

Reality is something people tend to dream about, but when they wake up everything seems unreal...

yeah it worked so good he really never came down again

Reality being different for each individual, whilst a thrilling and enthralling prospect, isn't fact. Well, it's not provable right or wrong.

If I say a lamppost is green and you say it's black, but it's actually painted green, chances are that you're disagreeing to be a smartass.

Secondly, human nature is what you're referring to. I've seen it when my Dad is building something, if a bit goes wrong he'll get pissed off. When it works out, he cheers up. It's standard human nature.

-AC

Human nature does not exist - for true human nature to exist, each and every individual on earth would have to be clones of one another.

Get a life you moron.

Nobody wants you here.

-AC

wallbash

ohh Philo what a clever name disguise.........not

It's Philo???

Wow......I just thought the guy was a moron.

-AC

read the name Sucihposolihp backwards

He socked as a girl yesterday, apparently...how sad.

I know Finti, I was being sarcastic.

-AC

realised that after I posted,when I read your first respons to him

Philo has been dropping thought turds throughout this forum under various socks. You'd think he's question his own genius in that he has not fooled a single person.

But I guess that the joy of being insane, you can go through life blissfully unaware or dillusioned.

Okay everyone let's drop the Philosophicus discussion and try to get back on topic. That guy doesn't need any more attention. Please back on topic...

That' s rather difficult when he keeps us haunting with his socks in numerous discussions. How are we supposed to debate in such a situation? I' m rather getting tired of these patronizing "Please back on topic" statements.

You can also just put his socks on ignore and report him. Any global mod present will handle the situation. By giving a troll attention you gain nothing. And in the end the trolls wins when you give him attention.

OH! This was the greatest EVER!! Bardock42 called him
"Sexy Misty girl." Flirting with a Guy, ha ha, lol.....I'm falling on the floor laughing..PeterKSL said "Misty girl is BRIGHT." He he.

This has made my last few days...I knew it..I just new it...

Cute little Misty Girl IS A GUY!! You all thought she was so Cute..

I LOVE IT!!

btw.....I guess he changed some realities...still on topic.

Then there' s no point in participating in the Philosophy Forum as long as he' s here. His posts, just like everyone else' s posts, cause interaction. Putting him on ignore equals the non comprehension of the other posters their replies and input.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Can you change your reality???

Have you ever noticed that when you are in a great mood, that everything seems to go your way? You get great parking spots, or things just seem to fall into your lap.

And when you're in a crappy mood, depressed, angry, resentful, unforgiving, that things only get worse?

It's called the "Law of Attraction." You attract what you put out with your thoughts, and then it becomes a reality. It's also referred to as "Holographic Time. or Quantum Thinking."

I've noticed this principle...Have you?

You can't change your reality. You can change your choices or decisions which shape parts of your reality. You also have to remenber that you as a person is also part of someone else's reality. If that other person changes his reality does that mean they can change you? Of course not. I don't think that having a good mood changes anything outside of you. Having a good mood is something you have within. Same when you're anger or upset about something.

Originally posted by WindDancer
You can't change your reality. You can change your choices or decisions which shape parts of your reality. You also have to remenber that you as a person is also part of someone else's reality. If that other person changes his reality does that mean they can change you? Of course not. I don't think that having a good mood changes anything outside of you. Having a good mood is something you have within. Same when you're anger or upset about something.

Changing your reality from the inside will change another persons reality. An angry outburst will cause many reactions down the line through time..the reality is set....But from the inside letting go of that anger, burying it in the past..looking at the present moment ONLY and changing the present reality will form a different cause in the affects of time down the line.

No I don't think that works. Changing your reality doesn't include predicting others reactions to an outburst of anger. You can't really predict how a person will react to your emotions. You're not changin reality what you're doing here is predicting the reactions of another person to yours emotion (whether those emotions are happines or anger or apathy) In most cases you can yell at person expecting the other person to retaliate with more yelling. That doesn't happen all the time. There are different responses to a situation. Unless you threaten with death their reality isn't change at all. Your reality is yours and my reality is mine. We can agree on some things but we cannot agree on everything else. That doesn't mean you have change my reality. You just can't change it at all.

Also you are already influencing your own future..What you put out, you attract like a magnet. Most people don't even realize it, and they wonder, "Why is this happening to me." I have seen this in many people, and have experienced it for myself..It's amazing, really! When you put out "love and understanding", things really go your way, all kinds of events and opportunities, they just seem to drop in your lap..
When you put out anger and such...it seems things around you break..ie toasters, vacuum, can opener doesn't work right, car..people don't react as kindly, bad phone calls, rotten parking space, dropping things..etc...

You have to visualize and concentrate on the positive because whether you realize it or not, just as most people don't, you are already effecting your own reality..doin it already....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Can you change your reality???

Have you ever noticed that when you are in a great mood, that everything seems to go your way? You get great parking spots, or things just seem to fall into your lap.

And when you're in a crappy mood, depressed, angry, resentful, unforgiving, that things only get worse?

It's called the "Law of Attraction." You attract what you put out with your thoughts, and then it becomes a reality. It's also referred to as "Holographic Time. or Quantum Thinking."

I've noticed this principle...Have you?


you are right
but IMO these way of noticing good and bad stuff is just perception thing

eg. you're in the great mood and you simply don't care that life sux, ppl are dying and so on
on the other hand you're waking up in the morning sure that you gonna die immediately, and whatever nice will happen to you won't change your mood, plus you tend to notice the little crappy things much more (eg. making a fuсking big deal out of broken fingernail)

Well when I'm stressed every little thing gets maximised. Say I drop something - next time it happens I'll be thinking it really aint my day, and so it continues.

In a happy mood, socialising or whatnot, I would brush these things off, ignore it; they don't disturb me and I don't remember it.

In opposition - when in a bad mood, thats what's on your mind, and relatively subtle things like parking spaces wouldn't cheer me up - I wouldn't acknowledge it.

The better I feel, ie. the less lethargic, the more productive I am.. so I guess I have more achievements... the better things are amplified.

I was watching the Science Channel. and it is now a new science. They are experimenting with the invisible...our emotions. We can't see them, they do influence things...In these experiments they had sensors that registered emotions..it was really neat. They were also able to see little particles floating from one area to another.

I started doing some research on it under quantum time, holographic time and found some articles. I subscribed to The Institute of Noetic Sciences. It's a science group that studies this phenomenon and was started by former astronaut Edgar Mitchell.

Here is an experiment you can try that I read about:

When you find a wasp trapped between two windows focus your attention on is. First feel angry and see what it does....next feel real love towards it and see what it does.

It's winter here and so there are no wasps, but there was a fly that got into the house, so I tried it. First I tried anger and it started buzzing around, then I thought only loving thoughts towards it and it stayed still.

You know how bizarre is is to concentrate loving thought to a fly? You wouldn't believe the looks I got....

If you want to look at the Noetic site, it is www.noetic.org

Try that experiment with the wasp and let know if anything happens.
This is new for me too.

www.icreatereality.com is another good source of info. Good luck with the fly experiment.

I agree with reality being subjective. Each person can alter their perception of realty accordingly

If this works for flies, that means it work for humans too...

Deb, you will be my lab experiment...

I wonder why nobody tried it on a wild animal, lions, snakes, ect...

Maybe it works on insects because they are more susceptible to inaudible vibration?? Try it on a dog. I don't have one.

PeterKSL I think it's working on me. I was watching TV and I had the urgency to get up and get on KMC. lol..

lol...

If you find yourself constantly surrounded by negative people...people at work who start conflict and competition with you. Freinds who are either jealous of you, or critical of you. Boyfreinds or Girlfreinds who abuse you or cheat on you.

Or just any person who makes you feel bad about yourself and/or mistreats you.



Do you think that maybe those are the kinds of people you invite into your life, intentionally or unintentionally ?


According to the Law of Attraction, like attracts like, and through our thoughts and emotions we attract the types of people we think about, fear, love, hate, want, dislike, etc.

The types of behaviors and personalities which we think about, feel, and enact are the types we draw to us.


If we fear being critisized, we will attract critical people. If we critisize others, we will attrack more critical people.



Our thoughts and emotions shape our choices, actions, and karma. They set a chain reaction of choices and events which lead us to what we focus on.


A positive mind renders positive ends, while a negative mind renders negative ends.





What do you think?



Do you beleive that it may be possible that the negative people who are in your life, are there because you drew them to you ? (excluding parents and siblings- you dont choose your family members)

Okay, so here is what you were talking about debbiejo.

lately, it hasnt been working for me much. trying to change reality i mean, no matter what i try remaining in the confines of what i CAN do, reality seem to follow the opposite, harder and more negetive coarse. almost as if a detiny is intent on choosing the corse it originally set out with.

Sure I can, at any time, but I can only change my reality.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
lately, it hasnt been working for me much. trying to change reality i mean, no matter what i try remaining in the confines of what i CAN do, reality seem to follow the opposite, harder and more negetive coarse. almost as if a detiny is intent on choosing the corse it originally set out with.


You have to meditate and learn to train your mind. Meditation is necessary for learning how to take full control of your mind, because meditation is the excersize by which we quiet our minds. That means no thought can be thought without our permission, no noise, feeling, or music can play in our head without our permission.

Learning how to take full control of your mind, instead of having it run wild, is highest form of power possible.


What you have been experiencing is a result of all the negative thinking and emotions you have had in your past. Think of the concept of Karma. Everything that comes to you is there because you attracted it to you, through your actions, but also through your thoughts and emotions.


DO NOT FOCUS ON THE NEGATIVE...DO NOT FOCUS ON WHAT YOU DONT HAVE....DO NOT FOCUS ON WHAT YOU FEAR



Instead focus on what you do like, focus on what you WANT...what you desire for yourself, your life, and your future. Focus on what makes you happy.


The happier you are, the more positive energy you emit outwards. That always comes back. That positivity perpetuates itself, but it takes practice to learn how to feed that positivity.


Program your life through your thoughts and actions. Change the way you think.




From all your posts, all your messages, I can still tell that you have a suffering mind. Learn how to take control of it.

By Jove, I think he's got it!


The best advise ever. Dwell on the good things and use your emotions, feelings, and imagination. It puts out stronger vibrations. Sometimes it may even seem to come at you in a negative way, but later you find out that it had a positive result.

Of course Astronaut Edgar Mitchell was aware of this principle..That's why he started the Noetic Society....Cool!.

No, you can alter reality, but not change it. Think about what is being asked here, for God's sake. Of course you can't.

Subjective reality doesn't mean we can actively influence it remotely via thoughts and emotions. All it means is that we create our inward perception of it. The meaning that we ascribe to it is our own, but not the actual machinations of it.

I'll be honest deb: I know you probably end up a lot happier because of this idea, and also probably do a fair amount of good as a result, but the idea itself is dangerous when taken to such extremes.

As evidence, I'll be paraphrasing Ingrid Hansen Smythe's scathing review of "The Secret", a "power of attraction" book that sounds a lot like what you're espousing....as well as inserting my own thoughts.

Limits of Attraction:

Imagine a scenario where a young girl is raped, chopped to pieces, thrown into a trashbag in those pieces, burned, then cast aside. Brutal, no? And the obvious question is: Did she attract that to herself via her thoughts and feelings?

No. Of course not. I doubt you'd say so, and no rational person would. But let's get more nuanced. The everyday occurences that happen to people, good, bad, or even neutral. Are those attracted? Possibly, under the theory. But where draw the line? There isn't one. And does a person only attract things (positive or negative) if they are conscious that they should attract it?

And even in the brutal example of the girl, why throw it out so casually as a refutation? If I can influence a bee via positive thoughts, or a person can bring woe upon themselves by thinking negatively, how is it that we can discard the example of the girl? The answer is, we can't. Saying that she didn't deserve it or that her thoughts had nothing to do with it seems like a monkey wrench in the theory, which has no testable basis on rational grounds anyway.

Coincidences:

We all have at least 1 (probably more) stories of coincidences. This is extremely common. Hundreds of thousands of coincidences happen on a daily basis, made into a rather bland fact by the sheer power of probability, the number of people on the planet, and the staggering number of tasks we complete each day and thoughts that race through our head...each of which is a potential for a coincidence, possibly a very large one. And we are programmed by evolution to be pattern-seeking individuals. We find the coincidences.

And we remember the hits, but not the misses. If a person dreamed of an old friend, woke up the next morning and found out he was dead, it would be hard to convince him that something paranormal didn't occur. Nobody recounts the billions of deaths that went unnoticed in dreams, even of close friends and relatives. But if it happens to one person, say in England next week, my guess is that the newspapers or tv stations will pick it up on a slow day, and a good chunk of the population of England will hear about it (if only as a flippant paragraph or two deep within a newspaper), thus reinforcing the general belief. Then we have media outlets (Chicken Soup for the New Age Soul?) dedicated to perpetuating ideas like this. The odds of such a thing happening are actually very possible, but we only realize it if we take the time to think about it.

Now, combine all that with a person who buys into this system of attraction. Now, more than ever, the person is acutely cognizant of the patterns around them, of the relationships between one action and a subsequent consequence, of the power they have over their lives. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, not simply a reasonable assessment of the world.

"Quantum Thinking":

You alluded to it in your opening post, so my guess is that you're referring to observer-based occurences within quantum mechanics. The idea is actually rather silly. The myth is that reality cannot exist without mind, that we aren't just observing reality but influencing it by the very act of observation. This has remained urban myth among laypeople with a cursory understanding of the theory.

The more elegant reality of the situation is simply that quantum states are notoriously hard to maintain, and that any influence is liable to collapse it. Basically, in any situation where an observer CAN observe a quantum state (say, shedding light on the interaction so as to record it), the quantum state is compromised (in the case of the light, the photons would disrupt the system).

Concessions:
I'm not attacking debbie (who I like as a forum member and respect). I simply felt obligated to talk about something that I see as little more than pseudo-science that panders to our sense of wonder, without taking into account a more logical approach to the idea.

Self-fulfilling prophecies occur. If you are convinced you won't do something, chances are you won't (and yours odds improve with a similarly positive outlook). But be very, very careful how far you take it, and also what kinds of justifications you use to support it.

...

P.S. I play my best golf when I'm angry as hell. The kind of anger that turns into rage, and it hones it into a focus...but at that point I can't even feel happy for the good shots. Whatever I'm angry about transcends it. I suppose I shouldn't try that though when it's raining...I might call down lightning on myself ( )

Have you ever noticed that negative things happen to angry people. Have you ever noticed how terrible things happen to people who are fearful. Have you ever noticed that sick people were always worried about becoming sick?

Of course there are other factors involved, I never said it does not. Only that we do have some control on what we bring into our environment and into our lives. I for one have experienced these things and even before this, I had wondered why certain things happened to others with strong attitudes. Attitudes are strong thoughts.

I cannot say that this is the all in all, but it seems that it DOES contribute.

People think of themselves as "body" but what some sciences tell us that we are sub atomic particles that extends body into something much larger and effects everything around us that we see as invisible. Like a stone casted into a pool and making waves. Toss many stones into a pool and see the waves overlapping. Now see us as the stones and our beings, thoughts, energy as the waves.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Have you ever noticed that negative things happen to angry people. Have you ever noticed how terrible things happen to people who are fearful. Have you ever noticed that sick people were always worried about becoming sick?

Of course there are other factors involved, I never said it does not. Only that we do have some control on what we bring into our environment and into our lives. I for one have experienced these things and even before this, I had wondered why certain things happened to others with strong attitudes. Attitudes are strong thoughts.

I cannot say that this is the all in all, but it seems that it DOES contribute.

People think of themselves as "body" but what some sciences tell us that we are sub atomic particles that extends body into something much larger and effects everything around us that we see as invisible.

To an extent, sure. Like I said, a defeatist attitude won't get you as far as a confident one.

But as for the "have you ever..." questions, a lot of the time it is probably the reverse. A person who has had horrible stuff happen to them will tend to be angry. A person who is sick a lot (from natural causes) will naturally be preoccupied with sickness. But it's the environment effecting the person, not vice-versa. And implying that we can, with relative success, alter our environments via emotions is dangerously misleading people without anything even close to proper evidence.

It could also likely be a case where, say, an angry person pronounces their misfortune more obviously...to the point where it's impossible not to notice it. The anger seems to beget the bad events, when in fact good and bad things happen to everyone...the angry or sad person just perceives more happening to them, and thus their disposition.

...

It's not totally without merit. I just think you're overplaying the case for it a ton, and also taking it into paranormal realms where it has no business belonging.


....

Also, for anyone sceptical of this kind of phenomenon, please read my analysis on the last page, since I think it's important when it comes to this subject, and largely debunks it as a pseudo-scientific theory.

And you/we/everyone knows all aspects to what we call being human and the capabilities of what that is??

I understand that this is a truth, but maybe only one truth because there could never be an understanding of what is causing all things and to what effect. To not include paranormal is as bad as saying we know it all when infact we don't.

Originally posted by debbiejo
And you/we/everyone knows all aspects to what we call being human and the capabilities of what that is??

I understand that this is a truth, but maybe only one truth because there could never be an understand of what is causing all things and to what effect.

You're just implying a gap in scientific knowledge of causal effects for any one particular situation. Valid on the surface, because no one can tell you that you're wrong, and it would take an astronomically impossible calculation to actually figure out all the determining factors of an event or scenario.

But the problem is that you're taking that gap and instead of inserting something equally as valid, you're making the jump to a paranormal idea without any sort of logical backing.

I have no problem accepting that there are things about humans, nature, causality, etc. that I don't understnad, or that no one understands. But something shouldn't be taken as fact or even as a possible explanation if it has no evidence to support it other than intuition and perceived links between thoughts and effects, most of which I discussed back on page 3.

I hate to say this, but this reminds me a lot of the arguments ID advocates use when trying to debunk evolution. They're great at showing where evolution has holes of information (which do still exist, though many are quickly closing), but inserts an irrational Creator into those rather than offering another plausible explanation. It might have intuitive and/or emotional appeal for believers (as might the law of attraction), but it in no way serves as an empirical explanation that is testable.

I'm not a materialist, so I'm not denying paranormal phenomenon altogether. But I am denying those for which we have no good reason to believe in, until there is evidence to suggest otherwise that isn't so blatently subjective.

Well I will not submit myself into a box that others create. Even to say that evolution and creation (not the bible kind) cannot be somewhat blended is kind of staunch...don't you think? Do we know all the answers? OR could there also be another probability that just hasn't been discovered/proved yet. It's called scientific theory. It's just now coming to light. As for me, I take it as my life dictates it and that's all.

I do know that the fundamental beliefs of many scientist such as Astronaut Edgar Mitchell was on to something and from that others branched off. He did experiments from space with NASA not knowing. I gave the link earlier. Now he's not some dumb ass you know. He founded a whole organization of studies about this kind of phenomenon. I'll go with that and other studies, but not just that, because I am sceptical. I keep journals and my own experiments on things....I guess to say to each their own. I can say that we just will NEVER understand all things. And to say we do is us being pompous, ignorant just like every other century.

*Throws Galileo in jail*

Originally posted by debbiejo
I can say that we just will NEVER understand all things. And to say we do is us being pompous, ignorant just like every other century.


Originally posted by DigiMark007
I have no problem accepting that there are things about humans, nature, causality, etc. that I don't understnad, or that no one understands.

Meh.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
But something shouldn't be taken as fact or even as a possible explanation if it has no evidence to support it other than intuition and perceived links between thoughts and effects, most of which I discussed back on page 3.

...






In any case, we seem to have reached an impasse. I'll read the stuff from the link you posted. I honestly doubt I'll find further evidence, but I certainly won't close myself to the possibility....I didn't come into this inherently biased against it and unknowledgeable. It just seems like my refutations, both in my reading and in this thread, were only met by subjective anecdotal evidence, so I felt obligated to refute it until something more concrete presents itself (if it does, let me know, and I'd be interested).

We seem to have both gotten a touch more snippy in the last couple posts, so my apologies for that dj.

No, I don't mean to be snippy there Digi.

I've always respected your posts, ....that's why you are on my buddy list! Yeah, you have been from a long time ago....lol

I enjoy the dialogue, Mr. mod.....lol

Good good. I'm glad we're ok.





...you're still wrong though.

No, you!

Originally posted by debbiejo
Can you change your reality???

Have you ever noticed that when you are in a great mood, that everything seems to go your way? You get great parking spots, or things just seem to fall into your lap.

And when you're in a crappy mood, depressed, angry, resentful, unforgiving, that things only get worse?

It's called the "Law of Attraction." You attract what you put out with your thoughts, and then it becomes a reality. It's also referred to as "Holographic Time. or Quantum Thinking."

I've noticed this principle...Have you?

No. ...can only change your "own" reality. i.e. environment around you...people you choose to associate with, where you choose to work, who you choose to love, etc, etc.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Subjective reality doesn't mean we can actively influence it remotely via thoughts and emotions. All it means is that we create our inward perception of it. The meaning that we ascribe to it is our own, but not the actual machinations of it.

I'll be honest deb: I know you probably end up a lot happier because of this idea, and also probably do a fair amount of good as a result, but the idea itself is dangerous when taken to such extremes.

As evidence, I'll be paraphrasing Ingrid Hansen Smythe's scathing review of "The Secret", a "power of attraction" book that sounds a lot like what you're espousing....as well as inserting my own thoughts.

Limits of Attraction:

Imagine a scenario where a young girl is raped, chopped to pieces, thrown into a trashbag in those pieces, burned, then cast aside. Brutal, no? And the obvious question is: Did she attract that to herself via her thoughts and feelings?

No. Of course not. I doubt you'd say so, and no rational person would. But let's get more nuanced. The everyday occurences that happen to people, good, bad, or even neutral. Are those attracted? Possibly, under the theory. But where draw the line? There isn't one. And does a person only attract things (positive or negative) if they are conscious that they should attract it?

And even in the brutal example of the girl, why throw it out so casually as a refutation? If I can influence a bee via positive thoughts, or a person can bring woe upon themselves by thinking negatively, how is it that we can discard the example of the girl? The answer is, we can't. Saying that she didn't deserve it or that her thoughts had nothing to do with it seems like a monkey wrench in the theory, which has no testable basis on rational grounds anyway.

Coincidences:

We all have at least 1 (probably more) stories of coincidences. This is extremely common. Hundreds of thousands of coincidences happen on a daily basis, made into a rather bland fact by the sheer power of probability, the number of people on the planet, and the staggering number of tasks we complete each day and thoughts that race through our head...each of which is a potential for a coincidence, possibly a very large one. And we are programmed by evolution to be pattern-seeking individuals. We find the coincidences.

And we remember the hits, but not the misses. If a person dreamed of an old friend, woke up the next morning and found out he was dead, it would be hard to convince him that something paranormal didn't occur. Nobody recounts the billions of deaths that went unnoticed in dreams, even of close friends and relatives. But if it happens to one person, say in England next week, my guess is that the newspapers or tv stations will pick it up on a slow day, and a good chunk of the population of England will hear about it (if only as a flippant paragraph or two deep within a newspaper), thus reinforcing the general belief. Then we have media outlets (Chicken Soup for the New Age Soul?) dedicated to perpetuating ideas like this. The odds of such a thing happening are actually very possible, but we only realize it if we take the time to think about it.

Now, combine all that with a person who buys into this system of attraction. Now, more than ever, the person is acutely cognizant of the patterns around them, of the relationships between one action and a subsequent consequence, of the power they have over their lives. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, not simply a reasonable assessment of the world.

"Quantum Thinking":

You alluded to it in your opening post, so my guess is that you're referring to observer-based occurences within quantum mechanics. The idea is actually rather silly. The myth is that reality cannot exist without mind, that we aren't just observing reality but influencing it by the very act of observation. This has remained urban myth among laypeople with a cursory understanding of the theory.

The more elegant reality of the situation is simply that quantum states are notoriously hard to maintain, and that any influence is liable to collapse it. Basically, in any situation where an observer CAN observe a quantum state (say, shedding light on the interaction so as to record it), the quantum state is compromised (in the case of the light, the photons would disrupt the system).

Concessions:
I'm not attacking debbie (who I like as a forum member and respect). I simply felt obligated to talk about something that I see as little more than pseudo-science that panders to our sense of wonder, without taking into account a more logical approach to the idea.

Self-fulfilling prophecies occur. If you are convinced you won't do something, chances are you won't (and yours odds improve with a similarly positive outlook). But be very, very careful how far you take it, and also what kinds of justifications you use to support it.

...

P.S. I play my best golf when I'm angry as hell. The kind of anger that turns into rage, and it hones it into a focus...but at that point I can't even feel happy for the good shots. Whatever I'm angry about transcends it. I suppose I shouldn't try that though when it's raining...I might call down lightning on myself ( )




You have very good points. But there seems to be aspects of the Law of Attraction that you do not understand.



1) You can't change someone else's reality, only your own. Another person's experiences are thier own responsibility.


2) The Law of Attraction doesn't give people what they deserve. It's not about good or evil, or judgement, or anything like that. It's pure cause and effect.

According to the Law, you attract to you what goes through your mind. The things you fear, love, hate, focus on, are the things you bring into your life through your actions and interactions with the environment and other people.


The girl who got chopped up....what was her life like before that ? How has her mentality always been ? Has she ever had a concentrated fear of being killed ?

Did she demand attention ? Did she commonly find herself in all the wrong places ? Where was she the time she got kidnapped ? Killed ? Who does she hang out with ?


Whenever a person is raped or murdered, others will say They were at the wrong place at the wrong time. As if it was something that happened out of no where, with no causes, just something that happened that no one had any control over.


If I walk down a dark street at midnight and am attacked, ofcourse it's not my fault I was attacked. However, why am I walking down this street at midnight ?

Or let's just say someone gets hit by a car walking in broad crowded day light...well....one can say that it was a total accident, it happened by CHANCE, that its something unfortunate that no one has any control over.


Well....I chose to cross that street, at that time. My choice to walk that street at that time is the result of a series of choices I made before. Cause and Effect.

The driver chose to drive in that street and not drive carefully.


Two people are responsible for this accident. They both committed the actions, they both created this experience.


**************************************************
*********




Think about it for a second:



Have you ever spoken to a devout Christian who swears that he or she has seen miracles ? Who swears by the power of God ? Even to the Death?



Well...there's a reason for that.




Good things have come into thier life. Thier beleif in God became so powerful, that they expected good things to happen. They may have not sorted out what they wanted, but they expected pleasure and peace to come from thier prayer and Faith.


They attracted good things through thier beleif, then attribute it to thier God. They then beleive even more, and in turn, more good things start to happen, reinforcing their beleif even further.


Buddhists, Muslims, and Hindus will ALSO claim good things have happened to them and thier loved ones because of thier beleifs.



It all comes down to this: Reality is different for everyone. My reality is simply the series of thoughts, emotions, and experiences I have. If a person I don't know dies, it has no bearing on my reality. It's not part of it, because I am not even aware of it, therefore my choices, actions, thoughts, and feelings are not affected.


My reality is different from yours. Anything bad that happens to me today, or any other day, is the result of my thoughts, emotions, and actions of the past.

Sick people who dwell on thier sickness make themself sicker.


If you google carefully, you will see that there are people ALL OVER THE WORLD who have cured themselves of diseases such as Cancer and even HIV !

Through beleif, through meditation, through healthy habits, through different mentality in conjuction with thier medications and treatments. Sometimes, even without.


Your brain has authority over every cell in your body. Remember that.


The only way to control your life is to control your mind first. You learn to control your mind through meditation and practice. Once you take full control of your mind, the rest of your life follows.

Noted SoD, and your counter-points seem fairly conservative compared to some of the more outlandish claims of the Law of Attraction, so I don't object to it in full.

But basically what you are describing is simply causal determinism. Yes, everything has a prior cause, or many prior causes. Saying that our thoughts help shape our life is nearly an "a priori" (sic?) argument. Of course they do, because our actions flow from them. So yes, a person who, through whatever machinations, is in certain situations is likely to feel the consequences of those situations (positive or negative).

My argument has always been that we're not somehow attracting positive events via our thoughts in a paranormal manner. If I think negatively about a bee escaping my room, and he doesn't, then do the opposite and he does, it's merely a fairly probable coincidence....not a supernatural influence.

On a more mundane level, confidence begets success, trepidation begets failure. Positive thoughts will lead to a better outlook on life, and probably the general feeling that life is better as a result of the outlook...but it is simply our perceptions and meanings that make it better, not a direct causal influence from feelings to events in the world.


...

Also, my example with the girl was a neutral setting meant to imply that it happened seemingly at random. She didn't "think negatively" nor was she in a place designed to attract bad situations. For the sake of the argument, she could've been at home watching Barney while eating ice cream and laughing. It was merely to say that she didn't attract the brutality through any paranormal means. It was merely an unfortunate thing that happened to her. Then, by comparison, show why that implies that NO events are attracted in such a manner.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Noted SoD, and your counter-points seem fairly conservative compared to some of the more outlandish claims of the Law of Attraction, so I don't object to it in full.


I do beleive in The Law of Attraction very much so. It makes a lot of sense in many of the areas of my life, which I can apply it to. If I told you several of the things that happened to me, that I experienced, I'd bet you wouldn't beleive me.






Originally posted by DigiMark007
But basically what you are describing is simply causal determinism. Yes, everything has a prior cause, or many prior causes. Saying that our thoughts help shape our life is nearly an "a priori" (sic?) argument. Of course they do, because our actions flow from them. So yes, a person who, through whatever machinations, is in certain situations is likely to feel the consequences of those situations (positive or negative).


Thoughts and emotions shape our actions. Everyone understands that.

But to go even further, thoughts and emotions also shape our experiences. And that's all Reality is.


When we say Reality we aren't talking about the Universe. There is no way the entire Universe will be changed because of one mind. Reality is not the objective Universe. We can't even truly comprehend the objective Universe.

There are hundreds of colors that exist that we cannot see. There are sounds and frequencies we cannot hear, and there are energies we cannot feel.

Our perception and experience with the rest of the Universe is our Reality.

Reality is nothing more than the duration of your experiences. Like I said before, if someone in another country dies, and I don't hear about it, It will never be part of my reality. My reality is what happens to me, and your reality is what happens to you.

So yes, simply put, you can change your reality.










Originally posted by DigiMark007
My argument has always been that we're not somehow attracting positive events via our thoughts in a paranormal manner. If I think negatively about a bee escaping my room, and he doesn't, then do the opposite and he does, it's merely a fairly probable coincidence....not a supernatural influence.



You can't control another life form with your mind. I can't command a bee or fly to leave my room. You can only command yourself. If the bee is there, it's drawn there because of you. You left the window open, you ate a certain food which gives off a scent, etc. What the Bee does afterwards is its choice, and what you do afterwards is your choice.


Think about this: I will tell you something personal, something that occured this year.


Because of my experiences, throughout the year I thought about Heartbreak. Don't really know why, went through a horrible one in the summer of 2004, then another one in 2006, so I kept thinking about other guys hurting my feelings.


This summer I had hook ups with 15 different guys. Two of them I liked very much. Both of them broke my heart. One of them was this guy who said he wanted to get to know me afterward, but when I called him he asked "who is this ?"- mind you, we exchanged numbers before. The other guy was someone I was dating, but because he was so afraid of his parents finding out he was Gay, he couldn't spend enough time with me freely, so I ended that as well.


I basically met the same kind of guys over and over.


I began to beleive that Life is unfair, and that I can't trust guys at all. I told myself that no matter how hard I try to make things work, it always goes wrong, and that guys, for whatever reason, take advantage of me and never meet up to my standards.


What I realized is that, I'm the one who drew those guys to my life. Through my thoughts, emotions, and actions.

I always thought that each guy I was with may hurt me in some way...and they did. I kept feeling sorry for myself, and in doing so, gave myself more reason to feel sorry.

My actions reinforced these experiences. Every single date I went on (few dates, btw) I had sex the first date. Then I expected the guy to stay with me afterward. I felt that in doing so, I would have the guy hooked, and show that I'm willing to do anything to show the guy how much I like him.

I didn't realize that I was giving myself to easily, and drawing those kind of guys who want the easy way.


Now, knowing what happened, whose fault would you say it was ? Whose responsible ? Did I just happen to meet all the wrong guys by coincidense, or did I somehow bring this upon myself ?

Be Honest.




Originally posted by DigiMark007
On a more mundane level, confidence begets success, trepidation begets failure. Positive thoughts will lead to a better outlook on life, and probably the general feeling that life is better as a result of the outlook...but it is simply our perceptions and meanings that make it better, not a direct causal influence from feelings to events in the world.


All Reality is - are you experiences. Your experiences are shaped by your outlook, thoughts, emotions, choices, and actions. You are fully responsible for your own happiness, and your experiences.







...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Also, my example with the girl was a neutral setting meant to imply that it happened seemingly at random. She didn't "think negatively" nor was she in a place designed to attract bad situations. For the sake of the argument, she could've been at home watching Barney while eating ice cream and laughing. It was merely to say that she didn't attract the brutality through any paranormal means. It was merely an unfortunate thing that happened to her. Then, by comparison, show why that implies that NO events are attracted in such a manner.


There's nothing paranormal about it.


How old is the girl ? I don't yet quite beleive that a young child who has not much experience can take control of her entire life.

At the same time, many adults have no control of thier own lives either. But that's because they don't take it.


If the girl is a teenager, then the experience is different. How many of us think about violence ? or think about bad things ? We all do. Yet, we can repel those things as well.


I beleive, that when it comes to children, parents are responsible, not the child. The mind of a child is loose and undeveloped, therefore there is no way they can take control of thier experiences.


Also, the Law of Attraction works both ways. The child may have no attracted the serial killer to her, but the serial killer certainly attracted him or herself to the child.



Victims will attract victimizers. Victimizers will attract victims. This is not about being good or evil, or about getting what you deserve. This has nothing to do with that.


This is about attraction. The serial killer thinks about his or her prey how often ? ALL THE TIME. The more he or she thinks about the victim, the closer his or her pull to the victim becomes.

The child cannot be held responsible, as a child's mind is virgin in nature, and has very little power (over life experience).

The serial killer is responsible, because he or she attracted the child into his or her life. Understand ?

SoD, you're trying to skirt around the point I'm trying to make. I get the idea of subjective reality (which is what you described), as well as causality, and agree wholeheartedly.

In your example of the guys, nothing supernatural was occuring. Yes, I agree with your point of view, but only in so far as your thoughts and actions helped to determine the situations in life (in that case, the guys you ended up with). There's nothing mystical in that....it's just cause and effect.

But in calling it the "Law..." instead of more coherent ideas like causality and subjective reality, which have their basis in logical footing, it opens the door to those who actually think you CAN do things such as, say, get a new bike just by thinking about it really hard, then waiting for the universe to align to get one for you...or mystically influence the bee like in the scenario that was brought up earlier.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
SoD, you're trying to skirt around the point I'm trying to make. I get the idea of subjective reality (which is what you described), as well as causality, and agree wholeheartedly.


Okay.





Originally posted by DigiMark007
In your example of the guys, nothing supernatural was occuring. Yes, I agree with your point of view, but only in so far as your thoughts and actions helped to determine the situations in life (in that case, the guys you ended up with). There's nothing mystical in that....it's just cause and effect.


I never said it was anything supernatural. The Law of Attraction is not supernatural, the same way Gravity and Magnetism are not supernatural.

And that's exactly what I am saying. Cause and Effect. I'm not attaching any magic or occult to my point. I never said the Law of Attraction was mystical.

I feel as though you haven't actually been reading what I've been writing.






Originally posted by DigiMark007
But in calling it the "Law..." instead of more coherent ideas like causality and subjective reality, which have their basis in logical footing, it opens the door to those who actually think you CAN do things such as, say, get a new bike just by thinking about it really hard, then waiting for the universe to align to get one for you...or mystically influence the bee like in the scenario that was brought up earlier.


You obviously don't understand that Law of Attraction. It's not about a magic trick or some kind of mutant ability to levitate objects or control the mind of another.

You didn't read what I posted before. If you had, you would have seen how I put down the Bee scenario, because the Law of Attraction doesn't give you the power to hypnotize or influence a Bee. If the bee was in your room, it's because you opened the window. Your actions (as well as your thoughts and emotions) draw things to you. You can't tell the bee to leave. What it does next is its own choice.



As for the Bike...it's not about thinking really hard. If all you think about is a new bike, you will eventually get it. Your actions will lead you to get that bike.


It's like with Bodybuilding. Ask any professional Bodybuilder, they will tell you 90% of bodybuilding is mental.


Ask any entrepenuer, or any motivated businessman or woman, they will tell you that the secret to gaining so much financial wealth is to ALWAYS think about money. Have you ever read any of those books?

They all say the same thing. Step ONE is to always think about money, LOVE IT, TREASURE IT, Treat it like GOLD. Respect it, and focus on money, make yourself and your mind in sync with money.

Beggars have gotten themselves out of poverty. In NY there are so many people I have spoken to, some were once poor beggars, and there were days when they acquired $100.00 or even more, and put that money to use, simply by focusing on money, instead of on focusing on thier pain and self pity.


There are testimonies of people all over the world who have cured themselves of Cancer and HIV, through meditation, practice, healthy habits-which includes medical responsibility, and focus. Look online, see for yourself. Even Men's Health magazine has confirmed with interviews.


I do not understand the Law of Attraction to a full science, but one day I will. As of now, it makes perfect sense to me.

Not to get Off Topic but in regard to the Law of Attraction, and Positive Thinking combatting diseases such as HIV, this link is a link to a skeptical website which questions the role of positive mentality in the treatment of disease, yet even admits how much of an effect positive thinking has on the body and immune system as well as symptons:


http://www.lifepositive.com/Body/body-holistic/AIDS/treatment-of-hiv.asp

Originally posted by DigiMark007
...But in calling it the "Law..." instead of more coherent ideas like causality and subjective reality, which have their basis in logical footing, it opens the door to those who actually think you CAN do things such as, say, get a new bike just by thinking about it really hard, then waiting for the universe to align to get one for you...or mystically influence the bee like in the scenario that was brought up earlier.

However, "rightful thinking leads to rightful actions, and wrongful thinking leads to wrongful thinking". Even though this quote is a little off your point, it still shows the connection between thought and actions. Therefore, if you think about getting a new bike, a new bike will not magically appear, but your thoughts will guide your actions and you may go down to the store and buy a new bike. In that sense, thinking about a new bike does lead to a new bike.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, "rightful thinking leads to rightful actions, and wrongful thinking leads to wrongful thinking". Even though this quote is a little off your point, it still shows the connection between thought and actions. Therefore, if you think about getting a new bike, a new bike will not magically appear, but your thoughts will guide your actions and you may go down to the store and buy a new bike. In that sense, thinking about a new bike does lead to a new bike.


He doesn't understand the Law. The Law essentially states that thoughts/emotions and actions are what shape experience.

It's not magic or mysticism. The thought is energy and has its own frequency. Long ago, I told you that my thoughts meant nothing, because my thoughts have little to no power over my initiative actions. I was wrong. They totally have power over my actions and experience.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
He doesn't understand the Law. The Law essentially states that thoughts/emotions and actions are what shape experience.

It's not magic or mysticism. The thought is energy and has its own frequency. Long ago, I told you that my thoughts meant nothing, because my thoughts have little to no power over my initiative actions. I was wrong. They totally have power over my actions and experience.

If I remember correctly, we had quite an argument over that. I'm glad you have come around. However, the Law of Attraction should not be confused with the Mystic Law. The Law of Attraction is a western attempt to explain a phenomenon of nature that the Buddhists have known about for a long time.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If I remember correctly, we had quite an argument over that. I'm glad you have come around. However, the Law of Attraction should not be confused with the Mystic Law. The Law of Attraction is a western attempt to explain a phenomenon of nature that the Buddhists have known about for a long time.


Mystic Law says that the true nature of the Universe cannot be known to us, because of the limitation our senses.


As far as I understand, thoughts/emotions/actions and interactions with the external influences are all we have of our reality. Our life and our reality is basically our series of experiences.


Law of Attraction claims that we are like magnets. We attract like frequencies through our thoughts, emotions, and actions. Likewise, actions and interactions influence our thoughts and emotions, which perpetuates a cycle of experience. We have the power to control our life through taking control of our mind first.


There are many similiarities.


In the end, I beleive Quality of Life is all that really matters. Why live a miserable truth when you can live a beautiful lie ?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Mystic Law says that the true nature of the Universe cannot be known to us, because of the limitation our senses.


As far as I understand, thoughts/emotions/actions and interactions with the external influences are all we have of our reality. Our life and our reality is basically our series of experiences.


Law of Attraction claims that we are like magnets. We attract like frequencies through our thoughts, emotions, and actions. Likewise, actions and interactions influence our thoughts and emotions, which perpetuates a cycle of experience. We have the power to control our life through taking control of our mind first.


There are many similiarities.


In the end, I beleive Quality of Life is all that really matters. Why live a miserable truth when you can live a beautiful lie ?

The main difference is that the Mystic Law is inward flowing and the Law of Attraction is outward flowing.

Inward flowing = realizing that all of your reality is from within.

Outward flowing = looks outside of yourself.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
He doesn't understand the Law. The Law essentially states that thoughts/emotions and actions are what shape experience.

No, I've demonstrated through my words various times that I DO understand your particular interpretation of the Law. What you aren't getting is that lots of people take it further into the realm of the paranormal. Your interpretation isn't the only one that people use, and this very thread is abject proof of that. Citing another example of the causal effects of thoughts upon reality does nothing to enhance the conversation, nor does it refute my point, as we're already in agreement with that. From my first post I haven't denied deterministic effects of thoughts, nor their ability to affect positive or negative aspects of life (I went back and checked to make sure...and yes, I do mention it in the "Concessions" section).

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
It's not magic or mysticism. The thought is energy and has its own frequency. Long ago, I told you that my thoughts meant nothing, because my thoughts have little to no power over my initiative actions. I was wrong. They totally have power over my actions and experience.

All matter is energy, so ok to that point, but you seem to imply that it has a "frequency". Show me how it is anything besides a series of neural synapse firings that translate into thought and action via our nervous system and I'll happily concede the point.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
No, I've demonstrated through my words various times that I DO understand your particular interpretation of the Law. What you aren't getting is that lots of people take it further into the realm of the paranormal. Your interpretation isn't the only one that people use, and this very thread is abject proof of that. Citing another example of the causal effects of thoughts upon reality does nothing to enhance the conversation, nor does it refute my point, as we're already in agreement with that. From my first post I haven't denied deterministic effects of thoughts, nor their ability to affect positive or negative aspects of life (I went back and checked to make sure...and yes, I do mention it in the "Concessions" section).

Btw, all matter is energy, but you seem to imply that it has a "frequency". Show me how it is anything besides a series of neural synapse firings that translate into thought and action via our nervous system and I'll happily concede the point.

People are filled with delusions. We cannot understand the Mystic Law, and refuse to take full reasonability for all things in our lives. It is easier to say that someone else is to blame for the bad things in our lives, because to say that it is our own fault is confront the reality of attachments.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The main difference is that the Mystic Law is inward flowing and the Law of Attraction is outward flowing.

Inward flowing = realizing that all of your reality is from within.

Outward flowing = looks outside of yourself. I believe that Law of Attraction is more Inward flowing then, because the source comes from with you.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I believe that Law of Attraction is more Inward flowing then, because the source comes from with you.

But the focus is on other things being attracted to you, is it not?

It's Cause and Effect. It's changing the YOU, the inside.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
People are filled with delusions. We cannot understand the Mystic Law, and refuse to take full reasonability for all things in our lives. It is easier to say that someone else is to blame for the bad things in our lives, because to say that it is our own fault is confront the reality of attachments.

I'm not assigning blame though, for good or bad things. Under a deterministic system, there is technically no blame to go around for anything, though that doesn't mean that we shouldn't take personal responsibility for our actions. Good and bad are arbitrary distinctions as well, so the idea of one "good" thing coming from another "good" thought in a non-causal manner is preposterous to me.

A lot of this just seems to be a fanciful interpretation of causality. All well and good...I won't disagree. But not really needed.

It's like frickin Karma, Shaky...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'm not assigning blame though, for good or bad things. Under a deterministic system, there is technically no blame to go around for anything, though that doesn't mean that we shouldn't take personal responsibility for our actions. Good and bad are arbitrary distinctions as well, so the idea of one "good" thing coming from another "good" thought in a non-causal manner is preposterous to me.

A lot of this just seems to be a fanciful interpretation of causality. All well and good...I won't disagree. But not really needed.

I was not speaking of an absolute good or bad. However, there is a relative good are bad when talking about the human experience.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But the focus is on other things being attracted to you, is it not?



All things are Interdependent. You are not separate from the rest of the world

Originally posted by DigiMark007
No, I've demonstrated through my words various times that I DO understand your particular interpretation of the Law. What you aren't getting is that lots of people take it further into the realm of the paranormal. Your interpretation isn't the only one that people use, and this very thread is abject proof of that. Citing another example of the causal effects of thoughts upon reality does nothing to enhance the conversation, nor does it refute my point, as we're already in agreement with that. From my first post I haven't denied deterministic effects of thoughts, nor their ability to affect positive or negative aspects of life (I went back and checked to make sure...and yes, I do mention it in the "Concessions" section).


I am not taking it into the paranormal. I'm not in defense of someone saying you can utilize the Law of Attraction to perform magic tricks or to grow angel wings and fly.






Originally posted by DigiMark007
All matter is energy, so ok to that point, but you seem to imply that it has a "frequency". Show me how it is anything besides a series of neural synapse firings that translate into thought and action via our nervous system and I'll happily concede the point.


Law of Attraction is a current theory, supported by studies in Quantum Physics and Neotic Sciences. As of now, I do not think it is accepted Fact. However, many philosophers, doctors, scientists, writers, motivational speakers and spiritual/religious persons beleive in it.


I can help support the concepts and claims of The Theory of Attraction, but I cannot prove it to you.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
All things are Interdependent. You are not separate from the rest of the world

True, but I have seen people use the Law of Attraction in a way to say; if you chant for "this", it will come to you.

I change it all the time. The problem is, I'm not the only agent of change. For example, there's all the rest of you guys...

Originally posted by Mindship
I change it all the time. The problem is, I'm not the only agent of change. For example, there's all the rest of you guys...

I just changed it back.

Well my reality touches yours...In fact it touches everyones....I am so powerful!

youpi

Originally posted by debbiejo
Well my reality touches yours...In fact it touches everyones....I am so powerful!

youpi

or deluded!

Originally posted by Zebedee
or deluded! Nah ah, I took a test. I'm okay, you?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Nah ah, I took a test. I'm okay, you?

Tell me about this test you took.

Change yourself, change your reality.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
True, but I have seen people use the Law of Attraction in a way to say; if you chant for "this", it will come to you.


The Law of Attraction is not a magic trick. You can't fly off a building or teleport with the Law of Attraction. It is a Law, therefore to utilize it to take control of your life, means to adhere to the laws that nature are abide by.


The Law of Attraction does not claim that you magically get what you want by wishing for it. Through changing your mind, your also change your life. Through taking control of your mind, you also take control of your life. And the law does not discriminate. Anyone who practices control can take it.


Taking control of your mind takes practice, meditation, and faith. You have to reinforce your mental power through practice, and you can't slack on your ways of thinking.


The Power of the Mind is being studied, and the results are remarkable. There is no doubt how powerful the mind truly is. Don't take it for granted. If you feel like you have no control of your life, it's because you're not taking it.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
The Law of Attraction is not a magic trick. You can't fly off a building or teleport with the Law of Attraction. It is a Law, therefore to utilize it to take control of your life, means to adhere to the laws that nature are abide by.


The Law of Attraction does not claim that you magically get what you want by wishing for it. Through changing your mind, your also change your life. Through taking control of your mind, you also take control of your life. And the law does not discriminate. Anyone who practices control can take it.


Taking control of your mind takes practice, meditation, and faith. You have to reinforce your mental power through practice, and you can't slack on your ways of thinking.


The Power of the Mind is being studied, and the results are remarkable. There is no doubt how powerful the mind truly is. Don't take it for granted. If you feel like you have no control of your life, it's because you're not taking it.

Are you telling me this because you think I don't understand the Law of Attraction?

All I said was that it is outward flowing. I didn't say it isn't true, or doesn't work. The problem with ideas that are outward flowing is that they can lead to delusion if one is not careful. An idea that is inward flowing is less likely to lead to delusion.

An example would be the teachings of Jesus, which by themselves are great teachings. However, they are outward flowing and have been deluded over time. That is not to say that a teaching that is inward flowing cannot be deluded, but when one has to face ones self, it is harder to succumb to delusion.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Are you telling me this because you think I don't understand the Law of Attraction?

All I said was that it is outward flowing. I didn't say it isn't true, or doesn't work. The problem with ideas that are outward flowing is that they can lead to delusion if one is not careful. An idea that is inward flowing is less likely to lead to delusion.

An example would be the teachings of Jesus, which by themselves are great teachings. However, they are outward flowing and have been deluded over time. That is not to say that a teaching that is inward flowing cannot be deluded, but when one has to face ones self, it is harder to succumb to delusion.






It seems that a lot of people have taken the Law of Attraction out of proportion.


I still don't see it as "outward flowing", since the Law of Attraction claims we are all connected, and encourages you to attract like things to yourself. That would mean the environment is being drawn to you, an inward flow.


However, I do have to admit, the Law of Attraction certainly contradicts the Four Noble Truths.


The First, Dukkha, which claims that Life Is Suffering. The Law Of Attraction claims Life is whatever we make it. The second, Samudaya, teaches that Suffering springs from Desire.


While the Law of Attraction encourages Desire.




So, yes there is a contradiction between the Four Noble Truths and the Law of Attraction.


But....



If you notice, the Eight Fold Path has high similiarities with the Law of Attraction.


The Law of Attraction encourages Discipline...it encourages us to be grateful for what we already have, and to wish others only the best. It teaches us to take control of our thoughts, emotions, speech, and actions- (If you read the book, The Secret, by Rhonda Burnes, you will know what I am talking about).


Think about the Eight Fold Path:



-right view
right intention
right speech
right action
right livelihood
right effort
right mindfulness
right concentration


According to the Secret, via. Law of Attraction, to bring good things into your life, and be a fountain of good for others around you, you must hold right livelihood, you must hold right practice, and you must have a mind of pure positivity.

You are compelled to have authority over your thoughts, and the negative mindset must die.




Just remember: "Wrongful thought leads to Wrongful Action"


The Law of Attraction says that as well, but takes it a step further....


"Wrongful thoughts leads to wrongful experience".



And remember also: Buddha himself said that Everything we are now is a result of what we thought".

Shaky, check this out:



http://www.rkhawaii.org/miniseminar/everythingstarts/everythingstarts.htm


You will see parallels between the Law of Causation and the Law of Attraction.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
It seems that a lot of people have taken the Law of Attraction out of proportion.


I still don't see it as "outward flowing", since the Law of Attraction claims we are all connected, and encourages you to attract like things to yourself. That would mean the environment is being drawn to you, an inward flow.


However, I do have to admit, the Law of Attraction certainly contradicts the Four Noble Truths.


The First, Dukkha, which claims that Life Is Suffering. The Law Of Attraction claims Life is whatever we make it. The second, Samudaya, teaches that Suffering springs from Desire.


While the Law of Attraction encourages Desire.




So, yes there is a contradiction between the Four Noble Truths and the Law of Attraction.


But....



If you notice, the Eight Fold Path has high similiarities with the Law of Attraction.


The Law of Attraction encourages Discipline...it encourages us to be grateful for what we already have, and to wish others only the best. It teaches us to take control of our thoughts, emotions, speech, and actions- (If you read the book, The Secret, by Rhonda Burnes, you will know what I am talking about).


Think about the Eight Fold Path:



-right view
right intention
right speech
right action
right livelihood
right effort
right mindfulness
right concentration


According to the Secret, via. Law of Attraction, to bring good things into your life, and be a fountain of good for others around you, you must hold right livelihood, you must hold right practice, and you must have a mind of pure positivity.

You are compelled to have authority over your thoughts, and the negative mindset must die.




Just remember: "Wrongful thought leads to Wrongful Action"


The Law of Attraction says that as well, but takes it a step further....


"Wrongful thoughts leads to wrongful experience".



And remember also: Buddha himself said that Everything we are now is a result of what we thought". Someone finially understands what I've been talking about.

clap

Originally posted by debbiejo
Someone finially understands what I've been talking about.

clap

Don't jump the gun, Deb.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Someone finially understands what I've been talking about.

clap





Yes


Shaky, did you respond to my above posts ?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
Yes


Shaky, did you respond to my above posts ?

Not responding is also responding.

What did you want me to say? If you look at the Law of Attraction in an inward flowing way, then I don't have a problem. However, in most modern New Age religions that I have been exposed too, it is explained in an outward flowing way.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not responding is also responding.

What did you want me to say? If you look at the Law of Attraction in an inward flowing way, then I don't have a problem. However, in most modern New Age religions that I have been exposed too, it is explained in an outward flowing way.


The Law of Attraction is neutral to good/evil, selflessness/selfishness.

Anyone has the potential to use the Law of Attraction to thier advantage, whether they have selfless or selfish intentions. It's not about something getting what they deserve, it's about one creating thier lifestory through thier realms of focus.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
The Law of Attraction is neutral to good/evil, selflessness/selfishness.

Anyone has the potential to use the Law of Attraction to thier advantage, whether they have selfless or selfish intentions. It's not about something getting what they deserve, it's about one creating thier lifestory through thier realms of focus.

I understand the Law of Attraction.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I understand the Law of Attraction.


I know, but I'm trying to make you understand that aspects of it are in sync with concepts of Buddhism, and even other religiouns/philosophies. Like Debbiejo said.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I know, but I'm trying to make you understand that aspects of it are in sync with concepts of Buddhism, and even other religiouns/philosophies. Like Debbiejo said.

I understand that too. However, some of the teachings of Jesus sync with concepts of Buddhism also. Do you understand how Law of Attraction can be outward flowing? The first time I heard about the Law of Attraction, it was presented as a way to change the world to get what you want. That is outward flowing too me.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I understand that too. However, some of the teachings of Jesus sync with concepts of Buddhism also. Do you understand how Law of Attraction can be outward flowing? The first time I heard about the Law of Attraction, it was presented as a way to change the world to get what you want. That is outward flowing too me.



I understand, but I get my information from a book I read called "The Secret", and other various sources I have discovered.

What I am taught is that we are all connected, and that the mind has massive power.

I have not yet read that you can change the world. In the Secret, it clearly states you cannot decide the life state of another person. Only yourself. To change the world to your liking, also means to take control of other people's lives.

That is incorrect.


The Law of Attraction does not allow anyone to control the life or mind of another. It doesn't give or have that power.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I understand, but I get my information from a book I read called "The Secret", and other various sources I have discovered.

What I am taught is that we are all connected, and that the mind has massive power.

I have not yet read that you can change the world. In the Secret, it clearly states you cannot decide the life state of another person. Only yourself. To change the world to your liking, also means to take control of other people's lives.

That is incorrect.


The Law of Attraction does not allow anyone to control the life or mind of another. It doesn't give or have that power.

Well, I am glad there is an inward flowing vertion of the Law of Attraction.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Well, I am glad there is an inward flowing vertion of the Law of Attraction.


I don't understand how the Law of Attraction can be used to change the rest of the world. I have no power over another person's life. Only the power they allow me to have.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I don't understand how the Law of Attraction can be used to change the rest of the world. I have no power over another person's life. Only the power they allow me to have.

Can you feel someone else's vibrations from a distance?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you feel someone else's vibrations from a distance?


What do you mean ? Someone I am not aware of ?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
What do you mean ? Someone I am not aware of ?

Can you read another person's mind?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you read another person's mind?

now there a scary thought.

I don't believe that is part of the Law of Attraction.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you read another person's mind?


I've never done it. I don't think I can. What are you trying to get at ?

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I've never done it. I don't think I can. What are you trying to get at ?

Just seeing what you believe.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Just seeing what you believe.



I don't understand.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
I don't understand.

I know, and I don't know what to do about it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I know, and I don't know what to do about it.

shaky do you believe the world around you is an illusion of your own creation?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I know, and I don't know what to do about it.


You say you understand the Law of Attraction, but you are associating it with things which are not related

Originally posted by leonheartmm
shaky do you believe the world around you is an illusion of your own creation?

Yes and no. I believe there is a true reality. However, in my head, there is a made up world that represents all the sensory input from my body. That is why I can be fooled by illusions. I cannot perceive the true nature of reality; all I can do is perceive the illusion of reality in my own mind.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes and no. I believe there is a true reality. However, in my head, there is a made up world that represents all the sensory input from my body. That is why I can be fooled by illusions. I cannot perceive the true nature of reality; all I can do is perceive the illusion of reality in my own mind.

that is true. but if sum1 cud infact see/hear/percieve/read another person's mind, then that wud not hold true as you will not be confined to the interpretation that u put{which cud be wrong} on outside events/other people's motives/conciousness etc. and cud see reality as it is.

I found this clip about reality very interesting. We really have to think what is reality we perceiving by our senses. http://www.perceivingreality.com/

This thread.... hahaha lulz.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
that is true. but if sum1 cud infact see/hear/percieve/read another person's mind, then that wud not hold true as you will not be confined to the interpretation that u put{which cud be wrong} on outside events/other people's motives/conciousness etc. and cud see reality as it is.

But no one can read another persons mind. We can look at a persons face and understand how that person is feeling, but that is not mind reading. Some people can do sophisticated tricks that seem to be mind reading, but this is also not mind reading.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
shaky do you believe the world around you is an illusion of your own creation?

There is a true reality, but I do not experience it directly.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
You say you understand the Law of Attraction, but you are associating it with things which are not related

Does "What you have become is the result of what you have thought" equal the Law of Attraction?

The Law of Attraction; which is true?

A. My thoughts pull other things to me. (outward flowing)
B. My thoughts pull me to other things. (inward flowing)

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Does "What you have become is the result of what you have thought" equal the Law of Attraction?

The Law of Attraction; which is true?

A. My thoughts pull other things to me. (outward flowing)
B. My thoughts pull me to other things. (inward flowing)



C) All of the Above.


However, it's not just thoughts. If your emotions and actions contradict your thoughts, those thoughts become null and void.


Focus means all of your attention, your thoughts, emotions, and actions.



I beleive that I can have control over my Life Experience. I beleive my mind has authority over my body, and that if I can take control of the majority of my mind, then I can also take control of the majority of my Life.


If I just sit there, and wait for things to happen, nothing's going to happen.


I understand that the Law of Attraction can be very difficult to integrate into your own logical thinking, because some people make it out to be a magic trick.




However, I beleive the basics. We attract negativity and posivity, through our own negativity and positivity.


Our thoughts determine our emotions and actions, hence our Life Experience (Reality).

If you read up on the Buddhist Concept of Law of Causation, you will see many similiarities between it and the Law of Attraction.

Originally posted by SpearofDestiny
C) All of the Above.


However, it's not just thoughts. If your emotions and actions contradict your thoughts, those thoughts become null and void.


Focus means all of your attention, your thoughts, emotions, and actions.



I beleive that I can have control over my Life Experience. I beleive my mind has authority over my body, and that if I can take control of the majority of my mind, then I can also take control of the majority of my Life.


If I just sit there, and wait for things to happen, nothing's going to happen.


I understand that the Law of Attraction can be very difficult to integrate into your own logical thinking, because some people make it out to be a magic trick.




However, I beleive the basics. We attract negativity and posivity, through our own negativity and positivity.


Our thoughts determine our emotions and actions, hence our Life Experience (Reality).

If you read up on the Buddhist Concept of Law of Causation, you will see many similiarities between it and the Law of Attraction.

OK, I simply reject the outward flowing part of the Law of Attraction. This is a personal choice based on the Lotus Sutra.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But no one can read another persons mind. We can look at a persons face and understand how that person is feeling, but that is not mind reading. Some people can do sophisticated tricks that seem to be mind reading, but this is also not mind reading.



There is a true reality, but I do not experience it directly.



Does "What you have become is the result of what you have thought" equal the Law of Attraction?

The Law of Attraction; which is true?

A. My thoughts pull other things to me. (outward flowing)
B. My thoughts pull me to other things. (inward flowing)

sigh. wish i cud believe it was that simple. but given the chance that there are people who cud really see into your mind. what then?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
sigh. wish i cud believe it was that simple. but given the chance that there are people who cud really see into your mind. what then?

Can you give me extraordinary evidence to support the idea that people can read your mind?

Well there are many that say it can be done, but there will always be skeptics too, no matter what evidence is given.

If you read this, I've just changed your reality.

If you read this I just did too.

Originally posted by Mindship
If you read this, I've just changed your reality.

But I didn't read it.

Everyone changes reality because they interact with it.

True that son

Originally posted by debbiejo
Can you change your reality???

Have you ever noticed that when you are in a great mood, that everything seems to go your way? You get great parking spots, or things just seem to fall into your lap.

And when you're in a crappy mood, depressed, angry, resentful, unforgiving, that things only get worse?

It's called the "Law of Attraction." You attract what you put out with your thoughts, and then it becomes a reality. It's also referred to as "Holographic Time. or Quantum Thinking."

I've noticed this principle...Have you?

No, I Have not notice this. I always thought things would happen good or bad, no matter what mood you are in.

Peace,
Amanda

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you give me extraordinary evidence to support the idea that people can read your mind?

that is not what im saying. i said IF such people existed, then that wud make your assumption about the world incorrect wudnt it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
that is not what im saying. i said IF such people existed, then that wud make your assumption about the world incorrect wudnt it.

If mind readers were around, then we have to guard what we are thinking.

Peace,
Amanda

Why do you think so?

Originally posted by Deja~vu
Why do you think so?

There are probably a lot of things we do not say out loud in fear it would offend someone, therefore we keep those thoughts to ourself, but if we were around a mind reader (and knew that we were around one) then we would have to make sure we do not think of anything that would upset SAID mind reader.

Peace,
Amanda

Originally posted by debbiejo
Can you change your reality???

Have you ever noticed that when you are in a great mood, that everything seems to go your way? You get great parking spots, or things just seem to fall into your lap.

And when you're in a crappy mood, depressed, angry, resentful, unforgiving, that things only get worse?

It's called the "Law of Attraction." You attract what you put out with your thoughts, and then it becomes a reality. It's also referred to as "Holographic Time. or Quantum Thinking."

I've noticed this principle...Have you?

It's the way your brain perceives and notes emotions and happenings, if you are depressed your brain will send you negative signals, and use only negative thoughts, when you see something in a bad mood, your brain lists these encounters in a negative light.