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may I choose the Batvillains like the Joker,the Penguin,the Riddler,Teo-Face,Catwoman etc.

The Batsie's bad guys r not that powerful like Spidey's, at least not all of them. U have to put in Scarecrow and MadHatter into this. Since I don't know about all the Bat villains u will have to wait till some other ppl answer this thread.

Batman's villains were most of the times more human then endowed with some superpowers. Batman is more down to earth. His villains have the help of technology and their brains.

Spiderman has really his hands full of strange villains and lots of them have also strange powers. Carnage alone could whipe out all Bat's villains.

i have to be biased on this,i don't know ANYTHING about spidey villans except a thing or two about the green goblin and that too from the tobey mcguire movie.so my vote goes to bat villans!

Most of the Batman villians are ordinary ("ordinary" to the extent that a psychotic individual can be ordinary) humans. They're dangerous, but not in the sence that Spiderman villians are dangerous. As Spawnie said, they rely on brains, technology, and carefully laid plans, not fighting prowess.

There are a few inhuman villians, but the only ones I can think of right now are Clayface and Killer Moth (or whatever he's called now). I'm not sure what Killer Crock is; he looked nonhuman in Hush and human in Broken City. Even when he was at his most feral, however, Killer Crock was no match for Batman in a straight fight. The only human villian with any sort of "superpower" I know of is Poison Ivy.

Conclussion: Batman villians get their asses handed to them.

On a side note, Catwoman isn't really a villian any more.

I think Spiderman's villains are better than anybody's.that s what makes his comic so good. with Bats, his arch nemesis is Joker, superman's is Lex Luthor. With spidey there are a number of villains who send a tingle of dread up your spine(Goblin, Lizard-damn he's scary, Octupus are hiss worst but who can match the raw power of Electro or the all-out murderousness of Carnage and Venom).These guys are all truly dreadful!

I agree that Spidey has more challanging villains, but that is all due to his abilities, so there has to be balance in the comic. In Batman's comics the balance is made out in a different way. Hey, why am I even talking about this, when u already know these things.

If were talking about a all out brawl, Kaine, Venom, Carnage, the Goblins would make it a short fight. and Mysterio could handle the psychological enimies of batman. and then Rhino to tops it off.

well yeah, spidey's are more powerful full-stop and alot of Batmans strike me as very menacing too. Spidey's are like spiderman himself in that they are mostly creations of scienctific accidents where bats' are similar to himself(mainly) in that they are results of emotional trauma(joker, traumatised by his own appearance, scarecrow - by birds as a child, to name two)

Carnage alone would ruckus Batman's enemies.

I like spidy villians the best, but i like the joker more then any of them!

:P Poison Ivy can stop most of Spidey's villains cause they're all male..then again even if they were female should could still control them since she did Catwoman.

Though Carnage, and Venom might not be effected by it.

Azreal, Grundy, And the mud pack alone have a chance at toppling all the Spidey villains, Throw in Freeze, Ivy, Bane and Hatter to supply cannon fodder (with his mind controled subjects) and that might be it for
the Spidey villians.

Plus Bat's villains are so much cooler, they are all pretty much unique.

Has anyone noticed how many Spidey villians in one way or another have the gimick of being stuck in their suit? Scorpion's stuck in his suit, Rhino's stuck in his suit, the Symbiotes go crazy without it, Green Gobling is psychotically attached, Even Jameson is stuck to his persona.

Spidey's core villains would mop the floor w/Batman's

Charaxes.

----------------------------------------------------
The Ultimate Clayface could probably kill Carnage and Venom. Ra's Ghul could kill a few, so could Killer Croc. Poison Ivy could control most. Freeze would freeze many and Mad Hatter could control some of them to attack the others. Scarecrow would make some piss in their pants and Deadshot could kill tens of them.

But I think that the Spidey Villains outnumber and outpower them. It can go either way, though.

Speed Demon's gonna disarm all those w/weapons. Carnage would rip Deadshot to pieces and then move on. GG blows Freeze to tiny bits or Demogoblin bakes him. He'd bake Ivy too. HydroMan simply drowns Scarecrow and a few others. Scorpion or Venom or Ock would kill Ra's. Rhino or the Lizard would easily kill Killer Croc. Ultimate Clayface would be the only problem. I only know of "Normal" Clayface. Most likely, SD would give the Freeze Ray to Ock or GG and they freeze him or they get HydroMan to mix w/him and then freeze them both. I'd like to know more about Ult.Clayface though. Any info on him?

Powers:

Super-strenght

Death touch

Able to take anyone's powers he turns into

Fire creating power

Almost impossible to harm (He is living mud)

the spidey villains would win due to the mear fact they actually have super powers but the batman villains have better gimmics

One of the other clayfaces has a death touch too, and another is like the one that appeared on the cartoon. Azreal is a ruthless bad ass. Ras would make a better leader than anyone on the spidey team, period. Freeze can take the defensive and give the Bat team plenty of time to strategize (brains over brawns.)

The Spidey villians have a tough time working together as it is, This alone would make want to be on the Bat villain team.

And everyone just seems to be ignoring Grundy.

Not really. I wager that Venom could take him. He doesn't need to kill him, just incapacitate him.

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Azreal, Grundy, And the mud pack alone have a chance at toppling all the Spidey villains, Throw in Freeze, Ivy, Bane and Hatter to supply cannon fodder (with his mind controled subjects) and that might be it for
the Spidey villians.

i doubt those ones you mentioned could win it alone.... or with help

Sandman, Hydroman, powered up Electro, Morlun, Rhino, Venom, Carnage, Kaine, Black Tarantula, all the Goblins, Doc Ock, Scorpion, all the Spider Slayers, Speed Demon, Beetle, Spidercide, Carrion, Shriek, Doppleganger, Fusion, Spot (lol), Digger, the new guy with Vibranium skin, Molten Man, Sundown, etc, etc.....

Batman's been around longer but Spidey seems to have picked up a sh!tload of powerful villains in his own time

hahaha we're talking about mostly exclusive villains, right? Because Spidey's fought Dr. Doom as well and Bats as part of the JLA fights cosmic threats all the time.

Anyways, Spidey's villains overpowers Bat's just in strength, ferocity, and super powers. I don't care how powerful Ultimate Clayface is, you put Sandman or Hydroman against him and it's a pretty even match. Even Carnage's symbiote is a shapeshifter and acts similarly.

Bat's villains are by rule, more "human-like" to match Bat's own human limitations. A lot of them are smarter I think because it takes true cunning to take down the World's Greatest Detective. A lot of Spidey's villains, though powerful, are dumb compared to Bat's. But pitting them together would probably end in Bat's villains being slaughtered.

Agreed. GG is most likely as smart as anyone Bats goes up against and he's powerful too. Not all Spidey's villains are all about power. GG>RA's

Morlun was tough, he'd take out like half of Bat's villains. Then you got Sandman, Carnage, Venom, Tombstone, The Rhino...

Joker could kill every last one of them that didn't have a breathing aparatus. Everyone's underestimating how dangerous the Bat villians really are. I mean hell, take a loser like Jarvis, if he gets lucky and puts a baseball hat on Rhino (or more intellegently has one of the other batvillians do it for him) then all of sudden things start shifting towards the Bat-villians side. I don't know if any of them would be immune to Ivy's charms either.

I love Spiderman villians they are some of the best ever creaated but I could also say the same for Batmans... Green Goblin vs. Joker- Green Goblin wins, Killer Kroc vs. Lizard- Lizard wins, Clay Face vs. Carnage- Clay Face wins, Cat woman vs. Balck cat- Catwoman wins, Two Face vs. The Kingpin- Two Face wins, Mr. Freeze vs. Hydro Man- Mr. Freeze wins, The Riddler vs. Mysterio- Mysterio wins, Ras Ghual vs. the Vulture- the Vulture wins, it would seem to be an equal match but we are forgetting Spidey has alot more daedly enemies awaiting him... including Venom, The Hobgoblin, Doc OC, Sandman, Kaine, the Chameleon and many more

I don't know about your Vulture vs. Ras conclusion but that aside.

This is team-type battle. It doesn't matter which individual characters can beat other individual character. What does matter is...

Which team has a better leader.

Which team gets along better (so they won't be at eachother's throats instead of their enemies.)

Which team works better together. (who has a better blend of powers that complement eachother.)

Who has more members.

Which team has higher average power level (and this is the only one that goes to the Spidey-villians.)

Does any team have a specific power that would tip the scales. (there's two or more people on the Bat-villian side that control minds. this would definitley count)

Bat's has a lot of street level enemies, and a few super powered enemies. Spidey has a ton of street level enemies, and a ton of super powered enemies.

What the hell is Joker going to do to Morlun?



How bout Dr. Doom? He's tangled with Spidey a few times. Doom will crush joker.

How bout Scorpion? Doc Ock? Sandman?

Ivy? Hahaha! Titania and Shriek will take care of her real good.

How bout The Puma? Carrion? Demogoblin?

How bout Spider X?



Joker's and Bat's villains don't stand achance.

Dude, don't even brind Doom into this. You're reaching.

Can we take the villains Batman has fought with JLA?

And ther would be two Clayfaces who could turn into Superman and get his powers...and Solomon Grundy who has fought Superman.

Dude, if you read more Spidey comics, you'd know that he and Spidey have gone mano y mano a few times.

You have no idea what you're getting into. You really want to bring people up that have just had a few brushes with a character? That means the whole freaking universe for both these characters.

Still Spidey's villains take it.

Seriously, don't. Merely invoking his name will cause him to hijack this thread and then defeat every single combatant involved.

SUCH IS DOOM.

Originally posted by Sentry
Still Spidey's villains take it.

OOOooo. WEEEEEeeeell, when you say it like that, how can I argue?

like this, answer all the questions I posted earlier honestly (no need to do it out loud) and if your mind still isn't changed then we'll give you some quiet time for you to think about it some more.

Does Kingpin still count as a central Spidey-villain? He's pretty much the Luthor in Spidey's universe, though I don't really count Luthor as a main Bat villain. And Norman Osborn can easily replace him.

Teamwork aside, I think Bat's side edges out slightly just because they, like I said before, are more "mature" and cunning. But then again, most of them don't want to work together since they got their own diabolical plans. It even amazed Batman how the Riddler could gather up all the Bat villains to mess with him in the Hush series, and Ra's Al Ghul didn't want any part in it.

As for Spidey's teams, they have formed A LOT and MANY MORE TIMES. The different versions of the Insidious Six. GG is also good at organizing. However, they do botch up a lot since like I mentioned before, they seem to be more "immature" than Bat's villains on their quest for world domination and end up messing each other up. Yet, if they know they have to take down Bat's side, I don't even think they need that much teamwork. All their powers combined is just too massive.

Joker runs in with his gun and acid, BAM, Shocker blows him to pieces.
Clayface charges....Rhino charges back, Hydroman douses him, and Sandman smacks him dead on...Electro can give him a massive lightning shock. Too many possibilities. And I can't think of anyone else that is up to the same strength caliber....Charaxes? Even Croc is just slightly superhuman, but NOWHERE near Lizard, Scorpion, Rhino or Molten Man. Grundy, perhaps, but still....for every one super strong Bat villain, there are 10 more Spidey villains (Class 10 ton, 20 ton, 80 ton range) to take his place. For every psychotic Joker and Zsasz, Spider-man can find Carnage, GG who are ALSO super-powered.

I'm not sure Ivy's charms can work on superpowered villains, but I guess if they can work on Superman, it's possible. She might be easily dead before she even gets close though.

With Prep time, maybe Bat's villains can coordinate something...but as it is with most of these fights, they are a result of a random gathering.

Bat Villains:
Joker & Harley, Two-FAce, Ivy, Penguin, Riddler, Ra's, Ventriloquist, Croc, Mr. Freeze. Bane, Catwoman (yes, I'll list her too), Scarecrow, Hugo Strange, Man-Bat, Shiva, Deadshot, Clayface (all versions), Mad Hatter, Cornelius Stirk, Firefly, KG Beast, Abbatoir, Ratcatcher, Killer Moth, Zsasz...

Spidey Villains:
GG (all versions), Scorpion, Hobgoblin (all versions), Lizard, Doc Ock, Kaine, Morlun, Carnage, Venom, Shocker, Shriek, Tarantula, Sandman, Hydro-man, Molten Man, Vulture, Mysterio, Chameleon, Carrion, Morbius, KingPin, Rhino, Tombstone, Beetle, Jackal, Kraven, Manwolf, Puma, Hammerhead, Rose...

...and I'm not even mentioning the League of Losers...and characters like Boomerang, Walrus, or Tinkerer.

For the Batman universe the Batman villians are very powerful but lets think of it this way if spiderman were to fight Batman villains how would that fare and the same goes for Batman. Batman does no have the acrobatics or the strangth to go up against villians like GG or Venom. Batman would not be able to get near Doc OC. We're not talking about the Justice League if it wasnt for everyone else Batman would not be able to handle those villians on his own. However I believe Spiderman could.

Electro could flash fry almost all of Bat's baddies in one move

Originally posted by MERCILOUS

This is team-type battle. It doesn't matter which individual characters can beat other individual character. What does matter is...I've answered your questions and put in question marks for you.
Which team has a better leader? GG is a genius and powerful as well as Dr.Octopus. Who can that be said for on the other squad?
Which team gets along better (so they won't be at eachother's throats instead of their enemies.)? Spidey's enemies have teamed up on many occasions. I don't think the same can be said for Batman's rogues
Which team works better together. (who has a better blend of powers that complement eachother.)? Spidey's team by far.
Who has more members? Not sure
Which team has higher average power level (and this is the only one that goes to the Spidey-villians.)? This is one of many that easily goes to the Spidey-villains team
Does any team have a specific power that would tip the scales. (there's two or more people on the Bat-villian side that control minds. this would definitley count)? Only if they were allowed to do it. They wouldn't. Speed Demon would have broken their necks by then or Carnage would dice them up. Speed Demon would cause major damage to the other team in no time.

Q 1, Ras A Ghul, Hush, hell even two face can rally the team.

Q 2, Bat Villians have basically all worked together at one time or another, they tolerate eachother just fine when they have to. (unlike Venom and Carnage.)

Q 3, I'm not sure I've read a spidey villian team up where they don't hit each other so you're blowing it out your pie hole on this one.

Q 4, yeah I'm actually not sure either, but people are forgetting guys like Maxi Zeus, Spellbinder, that guy with the scythe-hands, prometheus(not sure he counts.)

Q 5, admitedly this one's yours.

Q 6, Mind control isn't the only power that would help tip the scales, Freeze is force to be reconned with, and Solomun Grundy is made of wood.

Doc Ock/Rhino/ GG are all they need to wipe out those idiots in the bat universe

Originally posted by MERCILOUS
Q 1, Ras A Ghul, Hush, hell even two face can rally the team.

Q 2, Bat Villians have basically all worked together at one time or another, they tolerate eachother just fine when they have to. (unlike Venom and Carnage.)

Q 3, I'm not sure I've read a spidey villian team up where they don't hit each other so you're blowing it out your pie hole on this one.

Q 4, yeah I'm actually not sure either, but people are forgetting guys like Maxi Zeus, Spellbinder, that guy with the scythe-hands, prometheus(not sure he counts.)

Q 5, admitedly this one's yours.

Q 6, Mind control isn't the only power that would help tip the scales, Freeze is force to be reconned with, and Solomun Grundy is made of wood. Wow wood! That's very impressive. Electro would cook Freeze in that suit. I thought Spellbinder was from B.Beyond. He'd still get blasted to death. Two face?
Q"What should we do boss?"
A"Hold on, let me flip this coin.
*While the coin is still in the air. Two face waits for it to land only to realize he can't catch it because Carnage has cut his arms off.

None of their leaders are powerful enough to be a threat. The team would take heavy losses trying to protect them.

Originally posted by brainchild81
Two face?
Q"What should we do boss?"
A"Hold on, let me flip this coin.
*While the coin is still in the air. Two face waits for it to land only to realize he can't catch it because Carnage has cut his arms off.





I see Two-face and Ra's as really good leaders but of their own respective thugs, not other arch-criminials. Sh*t, Bane was the only one I can really think of that coordinated Bat's demise from other villains during knightfall as well as The Riddler in Hush. Ra's wouldn't really team up with anyone to fight Bats since he's his own environmental maniac--actually, in my opinion, most villains in Bat's universe have a grudging respect for Bats (such as Ra's, Bane, or JOker) and that's why they each want to take him out themselves--it's an honor. At least the tier 1 level villains do. That's why it'll be harder for them to coordinate a team attack ON THE SPOT since each one would want to do it their own way. ON the other hand, a lot of Spidey classic villains are B-tier now (Hydro-man, Scorpion, Shocker, etc) and only a few selected ones are up top controlling the rackets (GG, Kingpin). And they all individually HATE Spider-man as opposed to having some sort of grudging respect for him cuz they think he's this annoying wisecracking fool that keeps messing up their plans. Therefore, if one central villain such as GG or Kingpin or even Doc Ock can get all the B-villains together, it'll be much easier to cooperate. They've done it plenty of times before and can easily do it again. Sh*t, they don't even NEED to cooperate, you randomly throw in Spidey's villains who are mostly bloodthirsty powerhouses to meet up with Bat's villains who usually have to PLAN their attacks, Spidey's villains will make short work of Bat's.

As for specifics, I can't really think of what ONE villain in Bat's universe can do that Spidey's villains can't dish out so much more. Solomon Grundy's strong as hell and made of wood...so what? Lizard, Scorpion, Venom, Carnage are all amazingly stronger and resilient. Hydro-man and Sandman are tougher than Grundy since they're so durable. And I'm sure Molten Man's skin is a tank compared to Grundy's skin. If it comes down to gimmicks and numbers, Spidey's got more. For every Clayface, there's Sandman and Hydro-man. For every Bane, there's Tombstone, Puma, Kaine, Morlun, etc. For every Joker and Twoface, there's GG, Kingpin, Jackal, Hammerhead, etc and the list goes on.

It's like this one comic where The Torch trades places with Spidey for a day....they think each can handle the other's respective problems but in the end, it seems like Torch made Spidey's villains look like such tools. FF deals with cosmic threats all the time, while Spider-man is usually relegated to NY. Similar parallel with Spidey vs. Bat villains. I'm sure Spidey won't have as tough a time taking out Bat villains as much as Bats would with Spidey's, even if Bat's are a bit more cunning. That's why Spidey's villains would win in the end.

Anyways, good debate nonetheless.

*sigh* Solomon Grundy went all out with Superman and won.

And Ultimate Clayface and Lady Clay can just turn into Superman and get his powers...

Sundown could take Grundy...... and most of the other guys on DC earth.... lol

ok, so he only ever appeared twice (both in Spidey comics) but he more than held his own against Spidey, the FF, the Avengers, Dr Strange, the X-Men, Dare Devil.... and whoever else turned up for that fight...... he only stopped because he wanted to

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
*sigh* Solomon Grundy went all out with Superman and won.

And Ultimate Clayface and Lady Clay can just turn into Superman and get his powers... Have they ever done that Superman thing before?

i DO remember Grundy being pretty freaking powerful in the JL Unlimited Cartoon...just not sure how he was in the comics. But if he's really made of wood, that kinda raises a few eyebrows on how strong he is.

As for Ultimate Clayface mimicking Superman, yes, has he done that before? In which case, I don't understand why he's still a Batman-tier villain. He'd outclass so many of his villain-peers.

UC must be as incompetent as the real Superman if he couldn't take out Bats w/all that power. He's not a threat.

Ok so I guess I'm the only one who laughed about my Grundy made of wood remark?

Any way he is made of wood, or more accurately he's a wood elemental, Just about equal to Swamp Thing except for the limitations of his mind (which are indeed heavy limitations.)

As for earlier Gross underestimations of Ras A Ghul, this really makes me sick. This is a guy who takes on the JLA (actually completely incapacitates for a while in the "tower of babel" story line) with nothing but goon power, and all of sudden he's suppose to be afraid of a bunch of goomba's who think they have power.

And honorable mention goes to Block Buster, Mister Bones, and Lady Shiva (I don't care what you say she could take GG).

No she wouldn't & by the way you posted it, I think you know it but don't wanna admit it. Ghul had goon power and Batman's plans. The same circumstances don't apply here. He'd die in seconds.

mysterio would fit in quite well with the batman villains......

the new Venom/Scorpion guy might turn out to be really dangerous.... he'd probably cut through most of Batman's baddies solo

Originally posted by brainchild81
No she wouldn't & by the way you posted it, I think you know it but don't wanna admit it. Ghul had goon power and Batman's plans. The same circumstances don't apply here. He'd die in seconds.

It's the freakin JLA!

Yes. I'm quite sure that's understood. Still, he had Batman's plans & his own henchmen. Here he wouldn't. I wish I had Batman's plans and a small army of trained henchman. I'd take down the JLA and finally kill Superman. Yaaaaaaaaaaay!
*As Superman's lifeless body falls to the ground, for some unknown reason, confetti falls from the air. Brainchild81 smiles and raises his hands in victory. "Thank you Batman!"*

What would you do with it? Use your mass amounts of cash and hordes of stolen technology to implement these plans?

I didn't think so.

Shiva kills GG in like one hit.

Are you joking again? It's more like she puts her dukes up & GG blows her and a few other people up @the same time from a distance. The flesh is wiped off their bones like in the 1st Spidey flick. The answer to your questions is yes. Yes I would

Nah, GG doesn't have a Spidey-sense, he gets snuck on and is killed in one hit. A sword threw the neck or something. Unless marvel's amped his powers, I haven't read Spidey in a while. Either way I'm pretty sure the Goblins are useless in this fight, on account of them hating eachother. Venom and Carnage are out too for the same reason.

GGs got a healing factor. And the old Scorpion is the new Venom.

ummm, well, thanks for reminding me why I don't read Spidey anymore.

Irrelevant in this battle. But I honestly hate some decisions they've made also.