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--Maximum pain is aim of new US weapon--


19:00 02 March 2005

Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition

David Hambling

The US military is funding development of a weapon that delivers a bout of excruciating pain from up to 2 kilometres away. Intended for use against rioters, it is meant to leave victims unharmed. But pain researchers are furious that work aimed at controlling pain has been used to develop a weapon. And they fear that the technology will be used for torture.

"I am deeply concerned about the ethical aspects of this research," says Andrew Rice, a consultant in pain medicine at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital in London, UK. "Even if the use of temporary severe pain can be justified as a restraining measure, which I do not believe it can, the long-term physical and psychological effects are unknown."

The research came to light in documents unearthed by the Sunshine Project, an organisation based in Texas and in Hamburg, Germany, that exposes biological weapons research. The papers were released under the US's Freedom of Information Act.

One document, a research contract between the Office of Naval Research and the University of Florida in Gainesville, US, is entitled "Sensory consequences of electromagnetic pulses emitted by laser induced plasmas".

It concerns so-called Pulsed Energy Projectiles (PEPs), which fire a laser pulse that generates a burst of expanding plasma when it hits something solid, like a person (New Scientist print edition, 12 October 2002). The weapon, destined for use in 2007, could literally knock rioters off their feet.

Pain trigger

According to a 2003 review of non-lethal weapons by the US Naval Studies Board, which advises the navy and marine corps, PEPs produced "pain and temporary paralysis" in tests on animals. This appears to be the result of an electromagnetic pulse produced by the expanding plasma which triggers impulses in nerve cells.

The new study, which runs until July and will be carried out with researchers at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, aims to optimise this effect. The idea is to work out how to generate a pulse which triggers pain neurons without damaging tissue.

The contract, heavily censored before release, asks researchers to look for "optimal pulse parameters to evoke peak nociceptor activation" - in other words, cause the maximum pain possible. Studies on cells grown in the lab will identify how much pain can be inflicted on someone before causing injury or death.


Long-term risk

New Scientist contacted two researchers working on the project. Martin Richardson, a laser expert at the University of Central Florida, US, refused to comment. Brian Cooper, an expert in dental pain at the University of Florida, distanced himself from the work, saying "I don't have anything interesting to convey. I was just providing some background for the group." His name appears on a public list of the university's research projects next to the $500,000-plus grant.

John Wood of University College London, UK, an expert in how the brain perceives pain, says the researchers involved in the project should face censure. "It could be used for torture," he says, "the must be aware of this."

Amanda Williams, a clinical psychologist at University College London, fears that victims risk long-term harm. "Persistent pain can result from a range of supposedly non-destructive stimuli which nevertheless change the functioning of the nervous system," she says. She is concerned that studies of cultured cells will fall short of demonstrating a safe level for a plasma burst. "They cannot tell us about the pain and psychological consequences of such a painful experience."

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7077
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sickening
how long till this weapon of 'freedom' is used on americans, to replace tear gas and rubber bullets?

I'd like to use it on my next-door neighbor for forgetting exactly where his and my property lines meet when it comes to cutting the grass.

Is THIS the America that George Dubya wants god to almost exclusively bless...? 'Blessed are the torturing quasi-police state?' Creepy man, that Bush... Don't worry too much PVS, that technology'll be exported for use on us, those in the rest of world as a part of bringing Bushbrand peace to us first I bet.... How DO you guys put up with that administration...?

Newsflash Sadako, America is the largest country/industry in the world.

If they have to put up with Bush, so do we.

-AC

Awwww Gee. I did not know that piece of information... Wow.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Is THIS the America that George Dubya wants god to almost exclusively bless...? 'Blessed are the torturing quasi-police state?' Creepy man, that Bush... Don't worry too much PVS, that technology'll be exported for use on us, those in the rest of world as a part of bringing Bushbrand peace to us first I bet.... How DO you guys put up with that administration...?

Hey, don't mess with Texas...

Man its sound like a lot of work is going into bigger cattleprods
by the sound of the info in PVS's post....

Oh boy, more Anti-Protester waopns......

Wow.. makes me glad I won't find myself participating in any riots any time soon.

sounds cool

it would be 'cool' in a movie or comic book,
but its reality, it exists, and they WILL use it and hurt innocent bystanders.

why do we, a 'free' society need such an ominous weapon?

and once again, i would like everyone to notice the shameful lack
of coverage from the 'bias liberal' media

man, i do not want to be on the end of one of those things!

Like something out of a videogame, the step towards a real life plasma/laser gun

**** that's whack. i'd hate to be a rioter in the future.

True. In fact one imagines that money and time would be better spent finding ways to avoid riots happening. Prevention is always better then cure, as they say. It just seems so foolish to being putting so much into such a nasty sounding machine instead of finding a way to avoid such things.

well, our government is making progress in technology that stalin could only have dreamed of

Unless Stalin had figured out a way to live forever.....

God.....this makes me even more scared of the U.S.........
Afro_Cheese>

I can't remember the details, but I know that the american military was working on "sonic bomb" that would be dropped from a plane and then explode something like 500-1000 feet above the ground. The explosion would not be detonated to ignite a nuclear device or shrapnel but would be a concussive sonic explosion. Apparently this explosion would be enough to rupture a person's insides (or something like that) in order that you could kill a large area of people without destroying the free standing structures. This manner of death was said to be extremely painful, yet clean.

I don't know whatever happened to it, but I thought the concept was scary as hell.

scared

Originally posted by PVS
Intended for use against rioters, it is meant to leave victims unharmed.

Sounds like a contradiction in terms.

Originally posted by PVS

sickening
how long till this weapon of 'freedom' is used on americans, to replace tear gas and rubber bullets?

Yeah those are much nicer.

I hate cops

No you don't

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Sounds like a contradiction in terms.

you realise that was a quote from an aricle right?





never said it was.
'nice' would not be the word, but certainly less sinister than an automated mass torture device, wouldnt you agree? at least rubber bullets need to be aimed at an individual, and can fire only one at a time.
you can also run from teargas, not double over in pain and suffer once a machine is switched on, if you're within a mile radius.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
I can't remember the details, but I know that the american military was working on "sonic bomb" that would be dropped from a plane and then explode something like 500-1000 feet above the ground. The explosion would not be detonated to ignite a nuclear device or shrapnel but would be a concussive sonic explosion. Apparently this explosion would be enough to rupture a person's insides (or something like that) in order that you could kill a large area of people without destroying the free standing structures. This manner of death was said to be extremely painful, yet clean.

I don't know whatever happened to it, but I thought the concept was scary as hell.

Yep.. That sounds pretty similar in concept to the effects of the Neutron bomb.

Efficiency and progress is ours once more
Now that we have the Neutron bomb
It's nice and quick and clean and gets things done
Away with excess enemy
But no less value to property
No sense in war but perfect sense at home...

The sun beams down on a brand new day
No more welfare tax to pay
Unsightly slums gone up in flashing light
Jobless millions whisked away
At last we have more room to play
All systems go to kill the poor tonite

Gonna
Kill kill kill kill
Kill the poor
Kill the poor ... Tonite

Behold the sparkle of champagne
The crime rate's gone
Feel free again
O' life's a dream with you, Miss Lily White
Jane Fonda on the screen today
Convinced the liberals it's okay
So let's get dressed and dance away the night

While they
Kill kill kill kill
Kill the poor ... Tonite

Nice....

Originally posted by dave123
No you don't Im pretty sure I do.

all cops? thats pretty sad

unless you just refer to a$$hole cops.

Originally posted by PVS
you realise that was a quote from an aricle right?





never said it was.
'nice' would not be the word, but certainly less sinister than an automated mass torture device, wouldnt you agree? at least rubber bullets need to be aimed at an individual, and can fire only one at a time.
you can also run from teargas, not double over in pain and suffer once a machine is switched on, if you're within a mile radius.

First comment was an observation.

Don't really think there's a whole lot of difference. Unless you are objecting to the causing of pain to innocent bystanders.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Don't really think there's a whole lot of difference. Unless you are objecting to the causing of pain to innocent bystanders.

oh why would i object to that?


really, do you NEED me to answer that?

Yes, considering you decided to mention that tear gas and rubber bullets are fine by you.

I think its nice that they are researching technology that doesnt damage tissue or break bones.. it just gives a tremendous pain and the victim drops. no blood lost.. or extremeties broken.. just time to recooperate

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Yes, considering you decided to mention that tear gas and rubber bullets are fine by you.

Originally posted by PVS
never said it was.
'nice' would not be the word, but certainly less sinister than an automated mass torture device, wouldnt you agree? at least rubber bullets need to be aimed at an individual, and can fire only one at a time.
you can also run from teargas, not double over in pain and suffer once a machine is switched on, if you're within a mile radius.

so you think if you repeat a misquote twice it will become an actuality?

maybe you should try again...three's a charm, right?

Let's take a trip down memory lane. I say memory lane, I mean to the first page.

'how long till this weapon of 'freedom' is used on americans, to replace tear gas and rubber bullets?'

Seems to me tear gas and rubber bullets are fine within the framework of 'freedom'.

Just let it go. It's what you said, no big deal.

We all make mistakes.

Yeah, one's usually the charm for me.

no, i wont let it go.
i said nothing to support the use of rubber bullets and or tear gas,
only pointed out the decline of reasoning in what we as a society allow.

assume what you wish....or you can give your views on the topic instead of attempting and failing to pick me apart based on your own warped deduction.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I think its nice that they are researching technology that doesnt damage tissue or break bones.. it just gives a tremendous pain and the victim drops. no blood lost.. or extremeties broken.. just time to recooperate
Except you could tie someone to a chair, point this thing at him, and turn it on for a couple hours. Just for fun, too, because there wouldn't be any proof.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Except you could tie someone to a chair, point this thing at him, and turn it on for a couple hours. Just for fun, too, because there wouldn't be any proof.

You could. I agree, good old fashioned tear gas and rubber bullets. Freedom all the way.

Not agreeing with the device.

well....a tazer could be used in the same manner

I don't think there's anything inherently WRONG with the device--just as there's nothing wrong with tasers--just how some sick freaks will use it.

Originally posted by PVS
well....a tazer could be used in the same manner
Sorry for the double post, but you beat me to the taser issue. Well, yeah, but a taser a) requires battery power, b) leaves proof, and c) is less painful.

Originally posted by PVS
no, i wont let it go.
i said nothing to support the use of rubber bullets and or tear gas,
only pointed out the decline of reasoning in what we as a society allow.

assume what you wish....or you can give your views on the topic instead of attempting and failing to pick me apart based on your own warped deduction.

what no witty comeback for this? but you were on a role

Originally posted by FeceMan
Sorry for the double post, but you beat me to the taser issue. Well, yeah, but a taser a) requires battery power, b) leaves proof, and c) is less painful.

but does it leave more of a mark if its used for torture(extended shocking)? im not being rhetorical, i honestly dont know

Originally posted by PVS
no, i wont let it go.

Fair enough. You probably hold electric fences unitl they stop shocking you as well.

Originally posted by PVS

i said nothing to support the use of rubber bullets and or tear gas,
only pointed out the decline of reasoning in what we as a society allow.

Yes. Nice comeback, I'm saying the same thing. They are hardly humane are they? Pain inducing gas and high velocity fired objects.

Originally posted by PVS

assume what you wish.....

Shall do.

Originally posted by PVS

or you can give your views on the topic instead of attempting and failing to pick me apart based on your own warped deduction.

Hurts donut.

Originally posted by PVS
what no witty comeback for this? but you were on a role

See above.

PS, you mean 'roll'.

Niice.

dude, you'll have to find another way to feed your starving ego than attempting to twist my words to make yourself feel superior.

i said what i said, you made an illogical deduction...end of story.

Originally posted by PVS
but does it leave more of a mark if its used for torture(extended shocking)? im not being rhetorical, i honestly dont know
No clue. I read about it in Popular Science and I don't recall them saying anything about a mark...but then they probably haven't done any 'extensive testing' with it.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Except you could tie someone to a chair, point this thing at him, and turn it on for a couple hours. Just for fun, too, because there wouldn't be any proof. its most likely going to be so expensive, you'd have to be really pissed off to shell out the cash for one, just to torture some schmuck

well, its irrelevant anyway as the EXCUSE for using conventional riot controlling weapons is that they are only aimed at trouble makers.

the big difference is that this is a mass torture device...there is no way for the government to bullshit their way around that.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
its most likely going to be so expensive, you'd have to be really pissed off to shell out the cash for one, just to torture some schmuck
Or perhaps an "organization" would invest in one and have it available for use whenever.

Originally posted by PVS
dude, you'll have to find another way to feed your starving ego than attempting to twist my words to make yourself feel superior.

i said what i said, you made an illogical deduction...end of story.

Ok. Whatever makes you feel comfortable.

Let it all out, I 'twisted' your direct quote.

Feel better champ?

Will you guys cut it out?

Cut it out? I swear PVS requested a witty reply.

-AC

lol AC

and i never got one

All in good debating fun.

Originally posted by PVS
and i never got one
RETURN TO SENDER.

Yeah, didn't go to any recognisable address anyway.

Ba-zing.

OK enough, 'Torture-matic', bad. And cetera.

it just seems that military technology is focusing on war with civilians and not soldiers...even war on american citizens. people are so quick to assume that americans who are civilly disobedient are allowed to be so...well times have changed. *see Republican National Convention NYC*

usually when you go into war-torn territory, enemies pretend to be civilians right? .. besides.. Im sure that plasma pulse can go through most armors, so its uses arent confined to civilian riots

oh please. you honestly believe they haven found a material to block the effects?

plasma? lol... http://www.plasmas.org/basics.htm hope you got enough money to buy an armor that stops condensed electric particles

dude, thats all greek to me

Here are plasmas being used strictly for national security : http://www.plasmas.org/rot-defense.htm

This is being tested at MY university?

I need a lot of black clothes, some potassium nitrate, and maybe a few hammers, knives, a few sticks of dynamite, and definitely a silenced pistol.

man thats some freaky shit

Originally posted by PVS
--Maximum pain is aim of new US weapon--


19:00 02 March 2005

Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition

David Hambling

The US military is funding development of a weapon that delivers a bout of excruciating pain from up to 2 kilometres away. Intended for use against rioters, it is meant to leave victims unharmed. But pain researchers are furious that work aimed at controlling pain has been used to develop a weapon. And they fear that the technology will be used for torture.

"I am deeply concerned about the ethical aspects of this research," says Andrew Rice, a consultant in pain medicine at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital in London, UK. "Even if the use of temporary severe pain can be justified as a restraining measure, which I do not believe it can, the long-term physical and psychological effects are unknown."

The research came to light in documents unearthed by the Sunshine Project, an organisation based in Texas and in Hamburg, Germany, that exposes biological weapons research. The papers were released under the US's Freedom of Information Act.

One document, a research contract between the Office of Naval Research and the University of Florida in Gainesville, US, is entitled "Sensory consequences of electromagnetic pulses emitted by laser induced plasmas".

It concerns so-called Pulsed Energy Projectiles (PEPs), which fire a laser pulse that generates a burst of expanding plasma when it hits something solid, like a person (New Scientist print edition, 12 October 2002). The weapon, destined for use in 2007, could literally knock rioters off their feet.

Pain trigger

According to a 2003 review of non-lethal weapons by the US Naval Studies Board, which advises the navy and marine corps, PEPs produced "pain and temporary paralysis" in tests on animals. This appears to be the result of an electromagnetic pulse produced by the expanding plasma which triggers impulses in nerve cells.

The new study, which runs until July and will be carried out with researchers at the University of Central Florida in Orlando, aims to optimise this effect. The idea is to work out how to generate a pulse which triggers pain neurons without damaging tissue.

The contract, heavily censored before release, asks researchers to look for "optimal pulse parameters to evoke peak nociceptor activation" - in other words, cause the maximum pain possible. Studies on cells grown in the lab will identify how much pain can be inflicted on someone before causing injury or death.


Long-term risk

New Scientist contacted two researchers working on the project. Martin Richardson, a laser expert at the University of Central Florida, US, refused to comment. Brian Cooper, an expert in dental pain at the University of Florida, distanced himself from the work, saying "I don't have anything interesting to convey. I was just providing some background for the group." His name appears on a public list of the university's research projects next to the $500,000-plus grant.

John Wood of University College London, UK, an expert in how the brain perceives pain, says the researchers involved in the project should face censure. "It could be used for torture," he says, "the must be aware of this."

Amanda Williams, a clinical psychologist at University College London, fears that victims risk long-term harm. "Persistent pain can result from a range of supposedly non-destructive stimuli which nevertheless change the functioning of the nervous system," she says. She is concerned that studies of cultured cells will fall short of demonstrating a safe level for a plasma burst. "They cannot tell us about the pain and psychological consequences of such a painful experience."

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7077
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sickening
how long till this weapon of 'freedom' is used on americans, to replace tear gas and rubber bullets?










Good we dont have to worry about killing a terrorist when we interrorgate him