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In your opinion, who is a better player, Carter or Mcgrady? I think that maybe Carter has more phisichal conditions, but Mcgrady is more complete. What do you think?

Mcgrady is better.Last season i think he made alot of shots and ponts

carter

Mcgrady by far. All Carter is better than Mcgrady at is dunks. Anyway, Allen Iverson is better than both.

McGrady is better. Carter had the potential to be better but chose to have no heart.

That would be entirely correct. He's a whiny little kid. Carter though, is still a pretty amazing player with an amazing physical skills. But he gets scared when he plays if somebody overpowers him.
When he played against the Raptors, Rafael Araujo knocked his ass down, and throughout that whole game he wasnt driving to the lane, and taking off balance shots.

I think Vince is better than T-Mac. In a different post someone said that Vince didnt drive to the basket again in the nets vs raps game because the worst draft ever, hafael araujo, by the worst gm ever, rob babcock, hit vince in the face intentionally and that vince was scared. in other games, he drives to the basket after he gets hit, but the reason he didnt do it against araujo is because thats all hes capable of doing. he has no potential, vince knows he is a shit baller and wont attempt to go for the ball, araujo will foul any high flyer that goes to the basket without making an attempt to go for the ball, and then he will look away as if nothing happened, thats exactly what he did when vince stared him down after the foul. Now back 2 Vince Carter and T - Mac, vince is better than T-Mac. U can hate on Vince now, but im telling you that no superstar, and i mean no superstar, has lasted longer in Toronto than Vince Carter, he put Canada on the map. T-Mac left TO much earlier than Vince because he was in Vince's shadow. Vince had all the spotlight, and T mac had to say, I want to be noticed more than Vince Carter and go out and score 35 points every game, and b second in line to nobody rather than thinking of what is best for the toronto franchise. now u r going to complement him? As for just saying whos better, you can see for urself. What has T-mac ever done, finished last in the league in games won when he played in Orlando, and come back to Orlando to get bood by them too? Now lets see what vince has done, hes has averaged a solid 24ppg throughout his career, has won the rookie of the year, has won the dunk contest, has made it within a shot of reaching the eastern conference finals, has had more #1 plays of the week than any current nba superstar, he put canada on the map, and has been the #1 vote getter for the all star game for 4 years in a row... so u tell me whos better....

Mcgrady

T-MAC!!!

i'd have to say they're as good as each other. both are excellent clutch players, both can drive hard in the lane and convert on most attempts, both can nail it from the outside, bnoth can hit fadeaways over taller defenders, both play decent defence.

2005-06 Statistics;
CARTER MACGRADY

PPG 24.7 PPG 24.3
RPG 6.0 RPG 7.3
APG 4.0 APG 5.2
SPG 1.18 SPG 1.15
BPG .71 BPG .95
FG% .454 FG% .404
FT% .855 FT% .750
3P% .377 3P% .330
MPG 36.7 MPG 38.4

stats are very similar. tmac has a slight edge in defence and rebounding, vince has the edge in scoring and shooting accuracy.
so whos better? neither.

Push.

Carter by far.... he has a better post up game, has the best vertical in the league by far, can shoot the 3 just as good as t-mac, can drive to the basket, and get to the line at will, and on top of that.. has a better history to back it all up...neither have won a championship, but the way the nets have been playing i can tell u they will atleast get to the second round of the playoffs. T-mac's teams though, not so much.

T-mac brings more of the game to the table than Vinsanity.

you will never b remembered as a "great" player until u start winning, vince is doing a much better job at that than t-mac right now, t-mac is trying to do that, by getting his motivation from the boos he hears from every city he deserts, like toronto and orlando. if he keeps it up, he will soon b hated all over the world. carter is only hated by half of canada, just like t-mac. skill wise, ill say they are just as good because only 1/4 of the people who have given their opinion here agree with me,but vince is more mature as a player than tracy. the only 3s t-mac takes are highly contested ones. if vince is highly motivated to do well, like he was when richard jefferson called him out, making bad comments about him and the team, we have all seen what vince can do for his team. since RJ called him out, the nets havent lost. they have won 8 straight, t-mac is an amazing player, but does not have the potential that vince carter has.

lets just compare them to the greatest player ever, Michael Jordan. Vince Carter was supposed to be the next Michael Jordan and the media swirled around him about that just as much as they now do Lebron. Vince may very well have been the next MJ if he were not plagued with injuries. How often was T-Mac compared to Michael Jordan? Never.

there will never be another Michael Jordan Vince Carter has never had the potential MJ did, Kobe is better then Carter and he dosent even have the potential Jordan had, lets not drag him into this arguement, Mcgrady kills Carter, aside from being a better shooter, Mcgrady is an offensive monster, all Vince can do is dunk, Mcrgady is more creative then him, he is a slasher, hes quicker, taller, more agressive, and is definetly not afraid to dunk on anyone, the stats for 05-06 are even because, Mcgrady has been passing the ball alot, ALOT, he is not as independet as he was when he played at Orlando, comapre those stats to when Carter was by himself with the raptors, in a very similar situation. and there talk of him being traded, from the Nets, Why? becuase they dont need him, and he hasnt been pulling his weight, not my words, straight from the commentators at ESPN.


Mcgrady at Orlando

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
00-01 ORL 77 77 40.1 .457 .355 .733 2.5 5.0 7.5 4.6 1.51 1.53 2.57 2.10 26.8
01-02 ORL 76 76 38.3 .451 .364 .748 2.0 5.9 7.9 5.3 1.57 .96 2.49 1.80 25.6
02-03 ORL 75 74 39.4 .457 .386 .793 1.6 4.9 6.5 5.5 1.65 .79 2.60 2.10 32.1
03-04 ORL 67 67 39.9 .417 .339 .796 1.4 4.6 6.0 5.5 1.39 .63 2.67 1.90 28.0

Carter at Toronto

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
00-01 TOR 75 75 39.7 .460 .408 .765 2.3 3.2 5.5 3.9 1.52 1.09 2.23 2.70 27.6
01-02 TOR 60 60 39.8 .428 .387 .798 2.3 2.9 5.2 4.0 1.57 .72 2.57 3.20 24.7
02-03 TOR 43 42 34.2 .467 .344 .806 1.4 3.0 4.4 3.3 1.12 .95 1.72 2.80 20.6
03-04 TOR 73 73 38.2 .417 .383 .806 1.3 3.5 4.8 4.8 1.21 .89 3.05 2.90 22.5
04-05 TOR 20 20 30.4 .411 .322 .694 1.4 1.9 3.3 3.1 1.25 .75 1.10 2.80 15.9

wow, the guy in the last post is pretty slow, did he not hear vince as all of canada did, when he said he didnt give full effort in toronto that year, or the year before? what im about to say goes out to the idiot in the post above. if ur going 2 compare their stats on their old teams then compare the stats when they both played hard. compare all of vinces stats up to 2001, thats when he stopped playing hard and did not get injured every other week as a raptor. anyways, you shouldnt b looking at the past, and even if u are, look at the past 2 seasons. i wanna c u compare their stats when vince was playing in new jersey last year. compare their stats for this year too. tell me this, has mcgrady ever won any individual awards?HAHA... how low do u feel?? on top of everything, ur trying 2 say vince is not a slasher, a scorer, he cant shoot, he cant like t-mac? WOW.... the only thing that u miiight b able to argue that t-mac is better at than carter, is shooting, which in my opinion and i can strongly say in any ESPN commentator's opinion does not highly differ who is the better player. i want to see any ESPN commentator, now say that t-mac is better than carter without another commentator arguing to say carter is better. in 2004, i wouldnt dare to say something like this... but now, i am sure carter is the better player.

this also goes out to tengu man, another thing, aside from just saying, who can shoot better and whos a better slasher, can u tell me of any hardware t-mac has to prove hes done more than carter in the nba, and that hes a better player? has t-mac won the rookie of the year? nope. Has Carter? Yes. Has t-mac ever been the #votegetter for the all star game? Nope. Has Carter? Yes. Has T-Mac ever won a slam dunk contest? Nope. Has Carter? Yes. Has T-Mac ever made it to the second round of the playoffs? Nope. Has Carter? Yes. So there it is, and one last thing, if you are going 2 compare old stats, y not compare career stats?huh? career percentages, rebounds, assists, point averages, everything, lets c who has been the better player throughout their career. no need to argue whos better right now... carter has shown that hes back, after he dropped 51 points on miami, he has his team above 50%. t-mac's team has one of the lowest records in the league.

Originally posted by tanjot
wow, the guy in the last post is pretty slow, did he not hear vince as all of canada did, when he said he didnt give full effort in toronto that year, or the year before? what im about to say goes out to the idiot in the post above. if ur going 2 compare their stats on their old teams then compare the stats when they both played hard. compare all of vinces stats up to 2001, thats when he stopped playing hard and did not get injured every other week as a raptor. anyways, you shouldnt b looking at the past, and even if u are, look at the past 2 seasons. i wanna c u compare their stats when vince was playing in new jersey last year. compare their stats for this year too. tell me this, has mcgrady ever won any individual awards?HAHA... how low do u feel?? on top of everything, ur trying 2 say vince is not a slasher, a scorer, he cant shoot, he cant like t-mac? WOW.... the only thing that u miiight b able to argue that t-mac is better at than carter, is shooting, which in my opinion and i can strongly say in any ESPN commentator's opinion does not highly differ who is the better player. i want to see any ESPN commentator, now say that t-mac is better than carter without another commentator arguing to say carter is better. in 2004, i wouldnt dare to say something like this... but now, i am sure carter is the better player. first calm the **** down, cuz right now you sound like the biggest ass, cuz you dont like my opinion, and another thing, you sound like a dummass yourself for even trying to comapre him to michael jordan, i will whoop your ass in an arguement there, not only that you put words in my mouth sayin shit like, i dont think hes a slasher or a shooter or any thing like that, i resepect Carter, and i wasnt bashing him in any way. Tracy Mcrgady is a better scorer then he is, he socred 13 of his 33 points in 35 seconds against the champion Spurs, Finished the 02-03 campaign as the NBA scoring champion and averaged more than 30 points per game. He became the youngest player to average 30-plus points per game. ohh and you say Vince had 50 points huh? well tracy scored 62 on Washington in 04, and you did say we could compare past seasons. since you want to compare highlights and career stats it wont get you anywhere, because there too similar. Vince carter scored 52 points twice in his whole career, Tracy Mcgrady scored 50 plus points in more than one game, and the 62 i mentioned earlier. Vince is back alright, but hes also back with Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, Jason Msinnis, Clifford Robinson, and many other above average players.

Also not to mention Tracy is younger then he is, and he came out of high school, HIGH SCHOOL YOU ****IN DUMASS, he was signed to a good team his rookie year, that had Carter on it being the star of the team, how the hell was he gonna shine espically coming out of high school his rookie year? Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant are prime exmaples of rookies coming out of high school and not getting the rookie of the year, simply because they were fresh out of high school and were just too young. so you can shove that award right back up your arrogant ass. and talkin about the playoffs, he hasn't excatly been on quality teams and the weight is always on him he cant do it by himself, but im guessing your gonna try and say Vince can. Vince is on New jersey he has back up, also one of the best point guards in the league on his team.

did he not hear vince as all of canada did, when he said he didnt give full effort in toronto that year, or the year before?

yes, Tracy Mcgrady does play harder then he does, when you dont play hard yo dont give it your all thank you for supporting that part of my arguement.


but you know what this arguemnet isnt important to me as it obviously is to you, im sorry if i popped a blood vessel in you head with my post, but you taking this way too seriously. and it would have been cool if you had simply dissarged and stated why, in a decent manner, instead of being an ass about it. I gurantee you if we were arguing face to face, i would have beat you ****in face in before you even finished half of that first post, watch you ****in mouth and learn how to argue like a cilivized human being.

I always liked Carter, and he's one of my fav players, but Mcgrady is much better.

Originally posted by Tengu Man


Also not to mention Tracy is younger then he is, and he came out of high school, HIGH SCHOOL YOU ****IN DUMASS, he was signed to a good team his rookie year, that had Carter on it being the star of the team, how the hell was he gonna shine espically coming out of high school his rookie year? Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant are prime exmaples of rookies coming out of high school and not getting the rookie of the year, simply because they were fresh out of high school and were just too young. so you can shove that award right back up your arrogant ass.


Don't forget, the other hardware mentioned. Vince was top vote getter by fans. That does not show that he is better. It shows that he was more popular (Dunks and hype was a lot of that). Dunk contest? Again, that doesn't show who is better. Is Josh Smith better than T-Mac? Is Brent Barry? Tanjot also mentioned most plays of the week. Who gives a shit about that? A lot of them were again just really good dunks.

Also, not giving enough effort lowers your credibility.

Mcgrady. Both are pretty much equal offensively, but T-Mac is a much better defender and is not soft when it comes to taking it inside.

first off... u dont know me, i dont know u, dont be telling me about how u think u can beat me senseless... , i said it the way i did because he had already made it so obvious to the world that he didnt make any effort in 2004 or 2005 to play hard for the raptors. and what do u do? u add in his stats for those seasons... thats why i wrote it the way i did. i didnt add to ur point, because that wasnt ur point. u were comparing their 2005 stats, when he was in toronto only and not when he was in new jersey. why talk about supporting cast when t-mac has yao ming... and learn to get the names boy, its jeff mcginnis who is doing nothing for the nets. so what if vince has jason kidd and richard jefferson, i know they attract the defence, but in these past few stretch of games since RJ called him out vince has been getting the scoring done on iso plays, by the way... when vince scores atleast 30 points, his team wins. when t-mac did that in orlando they had the worst record in the league. right now. the rockets dont have the worst record in the league, but its nowhere near decent either.

all the things above go out to tengu man only.

Tengu man's words:


"Mcgrady kills Carter, aside from being a better shooter, Mcgrady is an offensive monster, ALL VINCE CAN DO IS DUNK, Mcrgady is more creative then him, he is a slasher, hes quicker, taller, more agressive, and is definetly not afraid to dunk on anyone"


and then in ur next post ur going to say u think u can snuff me... and that i talk too much trash, that ur not bashing carter? in ur posts u have talked way more "trash" than i have. not taking it way seriously. just trying to make a point.

to tengu man:

sorry, but i have 2 add in 1 more thing after reading ur post, if ur going to compare their career highs in points in a game, compare the team they did it against.... was washington a better defensive team in 2003 than the miami heat are now? with the 2003 defensive player of the year -GARY PAYTON , a dominant force who has been on the all defensive team for all his years in the nba-SHAQ, and the young DYWANE WADE who plays stellar defence just as good as kobe..... didnt think so. when u write another post... make sure u put in every little detail that matters... and when it comes to the hardware, mcgrady has not had only 1 year to prove he is capable of winning an individual or team award... i know he came straight out of highschool... and it takes more time to adjust to the nba than players coming out of college who have more experience. i know he won the scoring title, but so far throughout his career, carter has proven to b a better winner than mcgrady, i dont care how long ago it was, but carter made it within a shot of reaching the eastern conference finals. mcgrady has never made it past the first round of the playoffs.

tengu man...im not taking this seriously, continue to debate if u want and think of this as a friendly arguement..

Payton? 2003 defensive player of the year? WTF? Where do you get that from? He won in it in 1995-96 season. That was 10 years ago. Payton is no where near the Glove he use to be. Wade isn't that great at D either. He kind of floats around on D. He's just great offensively and decent at D. I'm not sure when Vince's 50 point game was against the Heat, but was Shaq playing? He's been out a lot this season.

As for the post season stuff. I think McGrady's Rockets of 2 years ago could have done just as well as Vince's 2nd round team had they faced the same opponents. T-Mac had to face the fabulous foursome of the Lakers two years ago.

if u knew anything about the nba, gary payton won the defensive player of the year when he was in the bucks in 2003 before he signed with los angelos. dwyane wade is a good defensive player and shaq was playing when vince dropped 51 on the heat.... i dont care whether he is the glove or not, even without payton the heat r a better defensive team now than washington was when t-mac dropped 62 on them.

Originally posted by tanjot
to tengu man:

sorry, but i have 2 add in 1 more thing after reading ur post, if ur going to compare their career highs in points in a game, compare the team they did it against.... was washington a better defensive team in 2003 than the miami heat are now? with the 2003 defensive player of the year -GARY PAYTON , a dominant force who has been on the all defensive team for all his years in the nba-SHAQ, and the young DYWANE WADE who plays stellar defence just as good as kobe..... didnt think so. when u write another post... make sure u put in every little detail that matters... and when it comes to the hardware, mcgrady has not had only 1 year to prove he is capable of winning an individual or team award... i know he came straight out of highschool... and it takes more time to adjust to the nba than players coming out of college who have more experience. i know he won the scoring title, but so far throughout his career, carter has proven to b a better winner than mcgrady, i dont care how long ago it was, but carter made it within a shot of reaching the eastern conference finals. mcgrady has never made it past the first round of the playoffs.

tengu man...im not taking this seriously, continue to debate if u want and think of this as a friendly arguement.. this is a good arguement
disgustnow, reread your, post pay attention to the words you typed, because this is how you started it. I have every reason to jump you at you the way i did. your right, i was wrong to threaten you, and i was talking more trash, you made your point, but that right there is now how you debate, its how you make enemies. calling me an idiot, asking how low i feel, and calling me slow? yeah thats how you started this whole mess. like i said it would have been completely different if you had mocked and ridiculed me. im gonna keep posting but i dont have a whole lot of time, i just wanted to set the record straight. im not an ass, im a nice and resonable person, and im sure you are, but for future refernces, dont start shit like that, because not only will you piss people off, you can be reported to mods and you can be bannned for shit liek this, they have banned members for less, i apologize, if you will, for acting the way i did.

k, i also apologize for the way i started out... but besides the first few posts, this has been a good debate

Originally posted by tanjot
if u knew anything about the nba, gary payton won the defensive player of the year when he was in the bucks in 2003 before he signed with los angelos.

Ok, in that case you don't know anything about the NBA.

2005 - Ben Wallace
2004 - Ron Artest
2003 - Ben Wallace
2002 - Ben Wallace
2001- Mutombo
.
.
.
.
1996 - Gary Payton (Ten seasons ago)

mcgrady by far..

I agree with Tengu Man about Mcgrady.

did u c vince make the 3 point buzzer beating game winner against his old team, the raptors? did u? 42 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists. 18/35 fg, above 50%. 3/5 3pt, 60%. and he got 2 threes in the last 20 seconds to win the game. 24 points in the fourth quarter when his team needed it the most. and im reminding u again, player of the month for december... hes well on his way to being the player of the month for february too... with that performance.

oops, i meant january instead of february.

Originally posted by tanjot
did u c vince make the 3 point buzzer beating game winner against his old team, the raptors? did u? 42 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists. 18/35 fg, above 50%. 3/5 3pt, 60%. and he got 2 threes in the last 20 seconds to win the game. 24 points in the fourth quarter when his team needed it the most. and im reminding u again, player of the month for december... hes well on his way to being the player of the month for february too... with that performance.

did u c, i think it was 2 years ago, that mcgrady scored 68 points in the first half when they played the nuggets, thus outscoring the whole entire nuggets team by himself when the first half was over....and dont say, thats macgrady then, this is him now, theyre just about the same....best shooting guard in the nba regarldless

"mcgrady scored 68 points in the first half "

Somebody likes to exaggerate.

i swear fool im not even playing...u didnt hear about that?

Myth is no fool, especially when it comes to hoops knowledge. Here is T-Mac's NBA.com bio, pay particular attention to his CAREER HIGH in the bottom right of the page. Im pretty sure he had to play 4 quarters to get that, if he had 68 at the half as you suggest he would have broken Wilts 100 pt game.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tracy_mcgrady/

http://www.nba.com/games/20040310/WASORL/recap.html

Ah, here we go. Game recap..

Lets see....... hmmm..... interesting. He played 46 minutes. 7 points in the 1st, 21 in the 2nd, 24 in the 3rd. He then INTENTIONALLY tried going for at least 70 points and choked. He MISSED 10 of his last 11 shots and 9 free throws.

Not quite 68 in a half but still not a bad game.

Somebody owes me an apology.

braz RU SERIOUS!!!?? t-macs career high is 62 points against the washington wizards and it took him the whole game to do it. no current nba player has ever scored 68 points at the half in a basketball game... wilt chamberlain might have... because he scored 100 points in a single game.

I don't think even he had 68 at the half.

anyways, braz is still horribly wrong.... by the way, who saw the game between the nets and spurs? i know they lost after winning 10 straight but vince had like 9 points in the last 27 seconds, and another 30 point game, which gets his average higher, yet again, this time to 25.8ppg, along with 6rpg, 4apg.

Originally posted by tanjot
anyways, braz is still horribly wrong.... by the way, who saw the game between the nets and spurs? i know they lost after winning 10 straight but vince had like 9 points in the last 27 seconds, and another 30 point game, which gets his average higher, yet again, this time to 25.8ppg, along with 6rpg, 4apg.

But they lost. And according to your logic, stats don't matter if your team doesn't win.

if wins dont matter... then explain the rockets. they've lost with and without him

HAHA. exactly... theyve lost with him and without him... rockets r getting nowhere this year.

Originally posted by Myth


Also, not giving enough effort lowers your credibility.

i agree completely, Carter gave up on his team in toronto, he is soft, epscially in toronto, i havent been following much in jersey but i doubt he's changed....the guy would just settle for jump shots, he would never drive the lane, it was like he was afraid of contact, and with his athleticism, the last thing he should be doing is settling for jump shots, he's no reggie.....if he got critized by his teammates he would just take it, or cry about it, instead of having a great game, than telling the person that critisize him to shut the **** up, like you said he has no heart....you watch someone like AI play or the pistons and all you see is hustle, Carter doesn't know the meaning of the term

carter does drive teh lane.... but not nearly enough as he should. hes got the potential to be one of the best get to teh basket guys in nba history... hes shown he can finish when he does... he just lacks confidence and courage. and yeh he did lack effort in toronto... so did mcgrady. he left because of vince! imagine if they'd have stayed together. first team outside of the usa to win a championship if they'd have stayed together.

ah well, we got bosh now, and i cant beleve theres been talk of him traded to indy for o'neal. thats just a stupid trade for the raps. babcock has started to show some some promise of being a good gm, if he makes that trade then hes back to being a crap one in my opinion. bosh has all the potential to be a great player, jermaines a great player dont get me wrong... but i dont see him getting THAT much better.

J.O. is awesome, he works hard and is one of the best post up players in the league. He's got the total package, offence, defense, work ethic and heart. All he needs is some talent around him and he would be in the finals.
Bosh has bags of talent and will be a force for years to come, but unless he fills out he isnt gonna be able to dominate the elite PF of the game.

vince has changed, hes averaging about 9 free throws a game... and he does not back down, i know he doesnt drive to the basket as much as he should... but thats because he also has a great shooting ability.

also... vince is a very under rated passer... and draws a lot of double and triple teams. i honestly think he gets double and triple teamed more than t-mac, or wade...

Triple teaming Carter when you still have Kidd and Jefferson to worry about is suicide. I havent seen many Nets games this year, are you sure man?

even with jefferson in the lineup, he does get doubled... but when jefferson wasnt in the lineup the past 2 games, he was double, and triple teamed almost every time he touched the ball.

u guys dont believe me? watch a nets game this season and u will c for urself. i was watching the nets play seattle yesturday, and vince got doubled atleast 7 times in the last 3 minutes of that game.

did you see shaq quadrouple teamed againts the clips last night?

....is that supposed to b a joke....or r u trying to b sarcastic....or what?

i was trying to make a point, and if u watch a nets game u will c that i am right...i was adding to the conversation so dont try to get sarcastic. dont asnwer back until u watch a nets game, not the highlights, the game.

no tanjot, he was quadrouple teamed against the clips. and hes still a beast to stop. carter was quad-teamed in toronto and still scored, he is a great player.

no further debates on carter and t-mac?

the raptors lose a game by 3 points in the final minutes against the clippers!! what a surprise!!

And why does that go in the McGrady vs Carter thread? It has nothing to do with either of them.

Anyway, congrats on not mentioning Carter.

there r a lot of threads that have convos not meant to be in em so what so differen about this one

Sometimes its ok to mention something barely related to a subject rather than make a whole new thread if there is nowhere else for it to fit. But that obviously fit better in NBA discussion than Carter vs T-Mac (mainly Carter) discussion.

Originally posted by Myth
Sometimes its ok to mention something barely related to a subject rather than make a whole new thread if there is nowhere else for it to fit. But that obviously fit better in NBA discussion than Carter vs T-Mac (mainly Carter) discussion.

w/e, u just have to get the last word in dont u? lol

Apparently not.

Originally posted by tanjot
w/e, u just have to get the last word in dont u? lol

At least my posts are relevant to whats being said.

I'm hoping I get the last word in on this subject, that means you'll finally shut up.

hey, i talk as much as everyone else, because that is what ur supposed to do in these threads, talk. so, no i do not need to shutup, and u do not need to keep questioning my posts if u do not want to have a conversation with me, which u are making it seem as. otherwise do anything but tell me to shutup.

I never told you to shut up. I said I was "hoping you would."

Well, this is getting irritating, I'm done.

Originally posted by Myth
I never told you to shut up. I said I was "hoping you would."

Well, this is getting irritating, I'm done.

ur "hoping i would" is practically the same as saying u want me to shutup, good comeback though.(lol)

ANYWAYS, im looking forward to seeing the all star game, hopefully well get to see starters, vince and t-mac matched up, instead of vince and duncan.

That sounds like a really good idea. Why didnt i think of that?

I don't expect to see much from T-Mac. He is having emotional problems and doesn't feel like playing. Magic Johnson was talking about how when he had issues off the court, he would use basketball as a way to forget everything else and his focus was even more intense on the court.

what off the court issues??

I'm not sure. All I know is that they interviewed him and he said something along the lines of having family issues in the past such as relatives being killed and yet whatever he is going through right now is harder on him. The TNT commentators were saying that it was similar to what McGrady said towards the end of his Magic days when he wasn't happy.

Ok, found an article on it. It was friends being killed, but family passing away. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2334682

yeah, i read that article right after my last post.

t-mac had a very good performance, but i could clearly see lebron badly wanted to be the mvp, and was...the youngest ever.

That was a little delayed. The West was clearly feeding the ball to T-Mac. Though I was happy to see Bron get MVP, I was a little disappointed by his selfishness. I wish he would be more selfish in games and try to take over, but this wasn't trying to win by himself, it was going for the hardware.

i read an article on why he got bood at a home game, it said: he deserved to get bood, in the final 8 minutes he shot 2-13. but he should not have. something like that...and i still cannot believe vince missed two wide open jams. did you c the first tommahawk he went for? tim duncan and everyone down there in the paint just moved out of the way, i know timmy did not want to get dunked on by vince again. i remember vince dunked on him on opening night in san antonio in 2002. the raptors lost....as expected, but there were some good highlights.

After what LeBron has done for the Cavs franchise it shows how fickle the fans are if they boo him when he has a bad shooting night. It happens to everyone and real fans would be trying to get behind their team and star player. He also said after that game that he wouldnt forget the boos, so hopefully he will opt out when his contract is up and join Kobe in L.A.

man if that happens....... i just don't know man, i really dont know

I know... I know I would be f*cking pissed. Hopefully if that were to happen, James would get sick of Kobe's selfishness and leave after not too long.

It was just a pipe dream guys, calm down.

Originally posted by koolruningz
After what LeBron has done for the Cavs franchise it shows how fickle the fans are if they boo him when he has a bad shooting night. It happens to everyone and real fans would be trying to get behind their team and star player. He also said after that game that he wouldnt forget the boos, so hopefully he will opt out when his contract is up and join Kobe in L.A.


yeah...like that will ever happen, if the cavs want to trade lebron to l.a....the obvious choice would be kobe for lebron, which also will probably never happen. also there are no other idiot gms like isiah thomas.

Originally posted by Myth
I know... I know I would be f*cking pissed. Hopefully if that were to happen, James would get sick of Kobe's selfishness and leave after not too long.

thank u for agreeing with me about kobes selfishness...i dont know if u hate him, but i truly hate kobe.

tanjot.. ur forgetting teh early babcock:P i thought he was doing alrite this year... good draft choices, not too bad a trade with jalen rose... ah well. colangelo mite just help us big time

Originally posted by tanjot
thank u for agreeing with me about kobes selfishness...i dont know if u hate him, but i truly hate kobe.

I've always hated him, but at the same time I fear and respect his game.

Originally posted by tanjot
yeah...like that will ever happen, if the cavs want to trade lebron to l.a....the obvious choice would be kobe for lebron, which also will probably never happen. also there are no other idiot gms like isiah thomas.

Since you obviously have no idea about subtlety i'll say again, i was joking. I said in the post above yours it was a pipe dream, jesus!

Originally posted by tanjot
thank u for agreeing with me about kobes selfishness...i dont know if u hate him, but i truly hate kobe.

Change the record man, if you hate Kobe that much i suggest the BSPN forums. They have lots of angry kids like you there.

Originally posted by koolruningz
Since you obviously have no idea about subtlety i'll say again, i was joking. I said in the post above yours it was a pipe dream, jesus!

I actually read tanjot's post as one not actually arguing with you, but as a post simply stating that it would never happen.

VC with defence...forced kobe into an airball 3 point attempt that could have sent the game into overtime.

Originally posted by tanjot
VC with defence...forced kobe into an airball 3 point attempt that could have sent the game into overtime. Please tell me your not trying to imply that Vince is better than Kobe.

Originally posted by tanjot
VC with defence...forced kobe into an airball 3 point attempt that could have sent the game into overtime.

Glad to see Vince tries defensively in the final 30 seconds. If only he always played that hard defensively.

Kobe missed another game winner against the cavs

yup, i was watching that game, and no i am not saying that he is better than kobe because i know no one in these threads will agree...so yes it is my opinion but i will not say it in a full sentence because i do not want to start another argument that goes nowhere.

What is it with all you Kobe haters? I agree, he can be very selfish at times, but there's no need to hate him that much lol. After all, he did score 81

O and btw, T-Mac is most prolly better than VC (altho VC would prolly own him at dunks), if only he wasn't plagued with injuries this season... :/

There is no happy medium with Kobe, you either like him or loathe him. Im a die hard Laker fan so im one of the former.

Originally posted by TMACalicious
What is it with all you Kobe haters? I agree, he can be very selfish at times, but there's no need to hate him that much lol. After all, he did score 81

O and btw, T-Mac is most prolly better than VC (altho VC would prolly own him at dunks), if only he wasn't plagued with injuries this season... :/

whats with u people saying that all vince can do is dunk?? i dont think just dunks will get you a 24ppg average and a 51 point game against the heat. i dont think a person that can just dunk would be able to set a record for the most threes in the first half of a playoff game like vince did against the sixers in 2001, nailing 8 three pointers in the first half, and finishing with 9 threes to go along with 50 points. why do u fail to see that vince can do so much more than just dunk?? yes i see that his dunks are that spectacular and therefore the rest of his skills are highly overlooked....but you people need to stop saying that all vince can do is dunk and look up the facts..his 11000 career points have not all come from dunks, vince can dish the ball very well which he does not get a lot of credit for, and man o man..can he ever shoot the 3 ball, he was automatic from 3 point range last season with the nets. i think he had about 6 or more threes in 11 games last season with the nets. i could have said the same about vince as you did t-mac about being plagued with injuries when he had nothing but injuries for his last 3 seasons as a raptor ... but obviously no one would take that as a point because it is vince carter and he does not dribble with his mouth open, which kobe does and that automatically means that he is more skilled. trust me, i know people that think playing with ur mouth open makes you look more skilled.lol. what i just said makes sense...and yes, it involves humour. think about what i said before you say that i am out of my mind.

Dude, paragraphs are you friend.
I honestly have never heard anyone say that because you dribble with your mouth open it means you are more skilled, if i were you i'd just ignore anyone with that opinion.
That alone certainly doesnt make Kobe better than Vince, its the defense, ballhandling, post up game, mid range game and clutch play that make Kobe a better player. But again im not expecting you to agree and this is about T-Mac and Carter so i'll leave it at that.

Who the f*ck thinks that dribbling with your mouth open makes you better? But now that you mention it, maybe it does correlate

correlate? ill have to look up the dictionary for that one.

i want everyone to check out this link: http://www.nba.com/nets/features/vc_side.html

Originally posted by tanjot
i want everyone to check out this link: http://www.nba.com/nets/features/vc_side.html

That was beautiful man (i almost teared up reading that), your right Vince is just misunderstood.

and why exactly woudl teh nets publish a bad article on vince? its publicity man... why wouldnt you give a team mate a lift to practice? who doesnt acknowledge if someone puts a good shot up? its common courtesy... simple as that.

i got teh latest slam not long ago, (i say latest... we probably get it a month later than the us) but i'm fed up of iverson. what more is there to say about him? misunderstood, good player blah blah... and with ron artest? they're now backing him up for wanting to be traded and saying that o'neal and bird didnt forgive him back him enough... ron artest is an idiot. heck of a player yeah, but hes still an idiot personality wise.

^

Also, nobody ever said that Carter wasn't a nice guy. Its just that when things go sour, he wimps out on his team.

Originally posted by Myth
^

Also, nobody ever said that Carter wasn't a nice guy. Its just that when things go sour, he wimps out on his team.

like what...bringing them to their present 7 game winning streak?

No, I said WHEN things go sour. The Nets like Carter right now because things aren't going sour. Nice use of sarcasm btw

when things r going "sour", is when vince does not play well for the nets, and the only time that has happened is throughout the 1 week stretch where he was injured. but guess what..he played through the injuries with a back injury which is not easy to do, and he did not play well, but at the same tine he did not make excuses. when he recovered he began playing very well again, and the nets continued to win, and are doing so right now. so i do not understand what you mean by saying that vince wimps out on his team.

Why do you play stupid? I know you understand what I mean.

Originally posted by tanjot
when things r going "sour", is when vince does not play well for the nets, and the only time that has happened is throughout the 1 week stretch where he was injured. but guess what..he played through the injuries with a back injury which is not easy to do, and he did not play well, but at the same tine he did not make excuses. when he recovered he began playing very well again, and the nets continued to win, and are doing so right now. so i do not understand what you mean by saying that vince wimps out on his team.

i just clearly stated that i do not understand you and why...

tanjot... TORONTO.... wimping out?

Originally posted by Myth
Why do you play stupid? I know you understand what I mean.

Dont be too sure now Myth, you may need to spell this one out.

Originally posted by darth_royke
tanjot... TORONTO.... wimping out?

or you can let Royke handle that for you.

Wow tanjot. Simply wow. We have discussed Carter quitting on the Raptors for nearly half a year with you and you didn't understand what I meant by saying Vince wimps out when things go sour?

Originally posted by Myth
Wow tanjot. Simply wow. We have discussed Carter quitting on the Raptors for nearly half a year with you and you didn't understand what I meant by saying Vince wimps out when things go sour?

Wow myth. Simply wow. how many times have i explained and proven that vince used to wimp out on his team as the raptors because he needed a new scenery and now that he has it he is stepping up to the challenge, playing hard offence and defence ( i know everyone will disagree but next time you see a nets game you can see the difference for yourself) night it, night out, and has tried to play 4 games through a back injury, which is not easy to do....plz do not bring up this topic again..and if you are then prove your point using the present, not the past.

Originally posted by darth_royke
and why exactly woudl teh nets publish a bad article on vince? its publicity man... why wouldnt you give a team mate a lift to practice? who doesnt acknowledge if someone puts a good shot up? its common courtesy... simple as that.

i got teh latest slam not long ago, (i say latest... we probably get it a month later than the us) but i'm fed up of iverson. what more is there to say about him? misunderstood, good player blah blah... and with ron artest? they're now backing him up for wanting to be traded and saying that o'neal and bird didnt forgive him back him enough... ron artest is an idiot. heck of a player yeah, but hes still an idiot personality wise.

hey...los angelos has had many articles that have badmouthed kobe...so there is not just good publicity within your team...it depends on the person and situation.

Originally posted by tanjot
Wow myth. Simply wow. how many times have i explained and proven that vince used to wimp out on his team as the raptors because he needed a new scenery and now that he has it he is stepping up to the challenge, playing hard offence and defence ( i know everyone will disagree but next time you see a nets game you can see the difference for yourself) night it, night out, and has tried to play 4 games through a back injury, which is not easy to do....plz do not bring up this topic again..and if you are then prove your point using the present, not the past.

to add to that, and prove my point..http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1143413410091&call_pageid=969907729483&col=970081562040

Originally posted by tanjot
Wow myth. Simply wow. how many times have i explained and proven that vince used to wimp out on his team as the raptors because he needed a new scenery and now that he has it he is stepping up to the challenge, playing hard offence and defence ( i know everyone will disagree but next time you see a nets game you can see the difference for yourself) night it, night out, and has tried to play 4 games through a back injury, which is not easy to do....plz do not bring up this topic again..and if you are then prove your point using the present, not the past.

Thats all well and good but it has to work both ways. If you're going to only bring up the present then all the good things that Vince has done in the past shouldnt be included in debates right?

Originally posted by darth_royke
and why exactly woudl teh nets publish a bad article on vince? its publicity man... why wouldnt you give a team mate a lift to practice? who doesnt acknowledge if someone puts a good shot up? its common courtesy... simple as that.

i got teh latest slam not long ago, (i say latest... we probably get it a month later than the us) but i'm fed up of iverson. what more is there to say about him? misunderstood, good player blah blah... and with ron artest? they're now backing him up for wanting to be traded and saying that o'neal and bird didnt forgive him back him enough... ron artest is an idiot. heck of a player yeah, but hes still an idiot personality wise. and he put out a rap song

Originally posted by koolruningz
Thats all well and good but it has to work both ways. If you're going to only bring up the present then all the good things that Vince has done in the past shouldnt be included in debates right?

wimping out just means wimping out...as in not trying and not playing hard which is vince at times used to do, i could or could not use the past because vince is having a great season anyway so it wont make a difference to me.

Ok you just let us know whats taboo and whats not then, as we are playing by your rules.

Originally posted by tanjot
Wow myth. Simply wow. how many times have i explained and proven that vince used to wimp out on his team as the raptors because he needed a new scenery and now that he has it he is stepping up to the challenge, playing hard offence and defence ( i know everyone will disagree but next time you see a nets game you can see the difference for yourself) night it, night out, and has tried to play 4 games through a back injury, which is not easy to do....plz do not bring up this topic again..and if you are then prove your point using the present, not the past.

Your arguments have absolutely no relevance to what was even being discussed. You at first claim you have no idea what I mean by Vince wimping out. We then show you what was meant and you behave as if I was discussing the present. NOBODY IS DENYING THAT VINCE IS A GOOD PLAYER! Especially in the present.

ok. now lets move on to another topic...how about....do u think carmello anthony is an underrated player?? because i do...i think he is a much better player than lebron right now when it comes to close contest in the late stages of the fourth quarter. he has hit MANY big shots for the nuggest this season...lebron, not so much.

He is more clutch than LeBron. However, that is the only thing he has over LeBron. Underrated? I think he gets the cred he deserves. Not any more than he deserves, and not any less.

Mello has a way better perimeter game than LeBron, thats about it. I think one of the reasons that LeBron hasnt proven himself in the clutch is because he is laking in that aspect of his game. Once he has a reliable pull up jumper then you will see him take over more at the end of the game. At the moment he is easier to guard because you know he will try and take it to the rack, so you just collapse your defense on him.

on another topic, what is it with steve francis?? where is his 20ppg, and his highflying dunks?? i think he is upset because he always wants to be known as the best player on the team..whether it be houston, orlando, or now in new york with starbury.

I think the problem with Francis is........ he's a douche. He wants to be the best player on his team (like you said), and he's trying to force it rather than being a team player (much like Starbury, the self-proclaimed best PG himself).

I like Francis when he first entered the league. His team needed him to do everything and he was willing to. But I started thinking less of him the moment Yao was drafted and Francis refused to try to get him the ball. He's got the style and the mental processes of a superstar, but he's just not as talented as the real superstars so he ends up simply holding his team back.

There are certain players in the league that they are a pretty good talent so when you put them on a 17 win team, they may win 30 the next year. However, that same player if blockheaded enough can take a 40 win team, and lead it to only 30 wins as well.

This was originally only going to be a one sentence post.

Francis:
Pros - great athlete, great ballhandler, great dunker (sounds like your sort of player tanjot).
Cons - no outside game, no defense, cant run a team (which is essential at his position), no leadership and terrible attitude.

new york now hsa two shooting gaurds in point gaurd bodies. and with the history of attitude from these players they'll not sacrifice for the team. which is why i hate staphon marbury and slam magazines love for him... probably because hes an NY native.

i saw there were rumours linking hoim with a reunion with KG, but i hope for big tickets sake it wont happen. hes better off stating with the current wolves team than playing with the curse of starbury

Originally posted by darth_royke
new york now hsa two shooting gaurds in point gaurd bodies

Three. Don't forget Nate "Kenny Smith's Dunk Champion" Robinson. Although I don't hate Nate Robinson....... yet.

As for KG and Marbury. I can only see that reunion happening in Minny. KG is sick of losing. Why go to New York? If he's going to abandon his loyalty to the Wolves, it will be for a better opportunity than NY.

Originally posted by Myth
If he's going to abandon his loyalty to the Wolves, it will be for a better opportunity than NY.

Like the Lakers, yeah KG to LA has a real nice ring to it.

I would think of it more likely. But then again, its likely that I will shoot somebody if KG goes to the Lakers.

Seeing as you live in Oregon i know im safe, so knock yourself out. 2guns

actually... new york has 4... jamaal crawford too seems to be entrapped in a body thats too small for him... he used to play at the 2 in college apparantly

Good point. And Kool, whats to stop me actually looking for Laker fans when going shootin? If I'm going to kill somebody, it might as well be in LA where they are most likely an LA fan.

Btw, whats your address

scared shit

Originally posted by Mugen
there will never be another Michael Jordan Vince Carter has never had the potential MJ did, Kobe is better then Carter and he dosent even have the potential Jordan had, lets not drag him into this arguement, Mcgrady kills Carter, aside from being a better shooter, Mcgrady is an offensive monster, all Vince can do is dunk, Mcrgady is more creative then him, he is a slasher, hes quicker, taller, more agressive, and is definetly not afraid to dunk on anyone, the stats for 05-06 are even because, Mcgrady has been passing the ball alot, ALOT, he is not as independet as he was when he played at Orlando, comapre those stats to when Carter was by himself with the raptors, in a very similar situation. and there talk of him being traded, from the Nets, Why? becuase they dont need him, and he hasnt been pulling his weight, not my words, straight from the commentators at ESPN.


Mcgrady at Orlando

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
00-01 ORL 77 77 40.1 .457 .355 .733 2.5 5.0 7.5 4.6 1.51 1.53 2.57 2.10 26.8
01-02 ORL 76 76 38.3 .451 .364 .748 2.0 5.9 7.9 5.3 1.57 .96 2.49 1.80 25.6
02-03 ORL 75 74 39.4 .457 .386 .793 1.6 4.9 6.5 5.5 1.65 .79 2.60 2.10 32.1
03-04 ORL 67 67 39.9 .417 .339 .796 1.4 4.6 6.0 5.5 1.39 .63 2.67 1.90 28.0

Carter at Toronto

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
00-01 TOR 75 75 39.7 .460 .408 .765 2.3 3.2 5.5 3.9 1.52 1.09 2.23 2.70 27.6
01-02 TOR 60 60 39.8 .428 .387 .798 2.3 2.9 5.2 4.0 1.57 .72 2.57 3.20 24.7
02-03 TOR 43 42 34.2 .467 .344 .806 1.4 3.0 4.4 3.3 1.12 .95 1.72 2.80 20.6
03-04 TOR 73 73 38.2 .417 .383 .806 1.3 3.5 4.8 4.8 1.21 .89 3.05 2.90 22.5
04-05 TOR 20 20 30.4 .411 .322 .694 1.4 1.9 3.3 3.1 1.25 .75 1.10 2.80 15.9

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php? qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkyNjkmZmdiZWw3Zjd2c
WVlRUV5eTY5MjQyNzEmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

What stats are we supposed to be focusing on there tanjot?

uh....ur supposed to be comparing the link to his post and what he said, not the stats...

I only got the homepage for some NJ media outlet, is there a link to the page you want us to read?

oh........my bad, thats not whats supposed to be there. well, forget that link then, i am going to have a hard time trying to find it again.

what the article was about is the next michael jordan, and it speaks about how before lebron and kobe, the next jordan was to be vince carter....u get the idea...i was answering back to an old post.

i remember reading several articles years ago when vince was coming out of college about how he was the new michael jordan.... no-one will be though. players should only be remembered as themselves. vince carter will be known as vince carter, like shaq is shaq and hakeem is hakeem and so on.

anyone remember the slam cover by scoop jackson claiming grant hill was better than michael jordan? damn.... he coulda been right but he put a curse on g-hill..... the man was a walking triple double.... and co-holder of the 96 rookie of the year award with jason kidd. man he aint had any luck.

I think that by the next Michael Jordan, they simply mean another player that is not a post or point that can dominate the league as Jordan did. The "next Shaq" would be any huge center that physically over powers their opponents by a large margin as Shaq did, but not necessarily to the same style, just similar.

something i also forget to add in my previous post about the article was....the writer admitted that t-mac did not want to play the scottie pippen role to vince's michael jordan role. thats why a lot of canadians should not be forgetting what t-mac did like they are beginning to do, because had he stayed in toronto...who knows....we may have made it to the finals, and won a championship by now. i know you will think that i am an idiot to say that toronto could have won a championship, but with that duo anything can happen. imagine this lineup... alvin williams, jalen rose, donyell marshall, tracy mcgrady, and vince carter( yes...the one that tries).

indeed tanjot... we may have even won a championship with vince and other combinations of players... but he upped town and left. tmac was'nt going to become teh amazing player he is, that was just tmac playing to a high standard and getting the playing time too in orlando... vince WAS the man for toronto. he was everything. the franchise, the future, the present. but all he is now is the past.

Originally posted by darth_royke
he was everything. the franchise, the future, the present. but all he is now is the past.

Pure poetry my good fellow.

cheers dude... much appreciated

Originally posted by darth_royke
indeed tanjot... we may have even won a championship with vince and other combinations of players... but he upped town and left. tmac was'nt going to become teh amazing player he is, that was just tmac playing to a high standard and getting the playing time too in orlando... vince WAS the man for toronto. he was everything. the franchise, the future, the present. but all he is now is the past.

in toronto yes...but vince is still looking to make his mark whereas t-mac is now turning into the vince carter of 2002, playing only 20 games a season.

so what u mean to say is that in say... a years time when tmac has sulked and left houston you'll be loving him as well? good for you man..... and remember... tmac never came into the league destined as a franchise player.. he was going to become a decent solid athletic type... never the scoring machine he is now. vince's destiny from college was allstar and greatness. he was supposed to be the next iconic player.

Originally posted by darth_royke
so what u mean to say is that in say... a years time when tmac has sulked and left houston you'll be loving him as well? good for you man..... and remember... tmac never came into the league destined as a franchise player.. he was going to become a decent solid athletic type... never the scoring machine he is now. vince's destiny from college was allstar and greatness. he was supposed to be the next iconic player.

k...i dont know where the first part of that post came from, BUT the point is that t-mac never wanted to build a winning team..but a great reputation as a great player and scorer, right?? so i would say that vince was the better player in the toronto situation at that time and considering he stayed in toronto much longer than mcgrady or any other big name player ever did. will bosh be able to stay in toronto throughout his whole career??? well, we will have to wait and see...

Bosh has signed an extension recently so its looking good for the Raptors. He is their future at the moment.