WHO IS THE CHOOSEN ONE?

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koreanknight
WHO REALLY IS THE CHOOSEN ONE?
I MEAN WAS IT LUKE OR ANAKIN?
ANAKIN DID KILL THE EMPERPOR BUT LUKE IN A WAY DID TOO BECAUSE HE TURNED VADER TO ANAKIN AND BALANCED THE FORCE , SO WHO IS THE CHOOSEN ONE

I READ THE PROHECY AND IT SAID THE CHOOSEN WILL BE CALLED THE SON SUNS
COULD THIS MEAN THERE ARE 2 PPL?


..........

Raz
I think its very clear that Anakin/Vader bought balance to the force by destroying the Emperor.

I think the "Son of Suns" refers to the binary stars of Tatooine, where Anakin was presumably born.

Ushgarak
A. It's definitely Anakin

b. There's no canonical definition of the prophecy.

queeq
Agree with Ush I do. On both counts. Anakin was probably NOT born on Tatooine, his "being sold to Gardulla the Hutt" story suggests they came from somewhere else.

Personally, Luke would be in any given scenario the best candidate for Chosen One IMHO, but I'm afraid it's going to be Anakin.

DarthBorgie
Does the fact that anakin might not have been born on tatooine have anything to do with his high midi-chlorian count?

Ushgarak
Tricky. I;d hazard a guess that simplicity is the key here, and say no. but only tentatively.

JediOasis
I like the theory that all the Jedi who remain think that Luke and Leia are the Choosen One's, not Anakin, but they turn out to be wrong seeing as how Anakin is the ONE.

Ushgarak
Yeah, so do I. I think I mentioned it a few times a while back.

Gundark
Actually (just to be difficult and different evil face ) I've always thought Luke was the chosen one. Yes, I know Vader turned back to the good side and gave the Emporer his last big thrill, but if you look at all Luke sacrificed and fought for....

1. Never knew his mother ( although Leia remembered some)
2. Raised by an aunt and an uncle whom he didn't seem terribly close to (based on their brief time together in ANH), then finds their smoking skeletons.
3. Biggs (his closest friend) leaves Tatooine, later dies in battle at Yavin.
4. Is with Ben for a brief time, sees him die in front of his eyes.
5. Finds out Vader is his father (cool) smokin'
6. Loses his hand.
7. Fett runs off with Solo.
8. Returns to complete his training with Yoda, Yoda dies in front of his eyes.
9. On Endor, confesses to Leia and realizes he is putting his friends in danger, turns himself over to Vader.
10. Confronts Emporer, finds out DS weapons operational, knows Bothan spies died in vain.
11. Cannot conceal Leia's relationship to him from Vader.
12. Basically beats his father in duel, cuts his hand off.
13. Makes Emporer REAL MAD, tortured by force lightning (don't make me go off on that one again).
14. This is where I give Vader his credit for his redemption and getting rid of his cranky boss.
15. Luke unmasks his father (depressing, really) and watches him die.

Sorry this is so long, but jeesh, Luke has really been through the grinder, man. What he has seen and done and had to live with seems to me only a burden that the chosen one could bear. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but its just IMHO OC. smile

JediOasis
I am with you all the way. I always wished that Luke turned out to be the choosen one but Lucas has already said no. Oh well, we can always hope.

Ushgarak
Hey, no-one is denying thatLuke is the all-round hero (mind you, I feel the only reaosn he didn't turn was because he was too dumb), we're just saying that he isn't the literal Chosen One. He just enabled the Chosen One to fulfil his mission.

DarthBorgie
we've yet to really see what anakin will be put through

queeq
I agree Borgie. But still, Luke being the chosen one makes up a much more dramatic story I think. And I know it won't happen but let me explain the dramatic possibilties of that scenario.

Anakin is considered to be the chosen one, yet he falls to the dark side, kills off many Jedi. The remaining Jedi loose faith in the Chosen One story, Anakin rejects it and so does Palpy. Only OB1 seems to believe the prophecy might come true, but hope seems lost when Palpy rises to full power with Vader at his side.
Then Luke gets born and is rised in mere obscurity. No one believes the prophecy anymore and then he arises as the One who brings balance without anyone even realising. Except maybe for a still hoping OB1 ("that boy is our only hope"wink. OB1's hope for the Chosen One is the only thing that can remedie his own failure.

Dramatically that is much stronger than what we'll have I think. But this is, of course, IMHO.

Ushgarak
Mind you, if my "Prophecy is the plan of the Midi-Chlorians" plot guess is even half right, then Anakin being the Chosen One pans out a lot better.

mechmoggy
I have a twisted look on this "bringing balance to the force" business. It could be argued that Anakin brought this balance because he killed off all the Jedi and left the universe with only himself, Palpy, Yoda and OB1. Thats 2-a-side eveness in my book. Could this be the type of balance that's meant or do they mean the type of balance where the good side wins? Eh eh?

JediOasis
Lucas means the type of balance where the good wins. I think I've said a few times before but having any evil in the galaxy creats a sort of "unbalanced" system and eventually Anakin fixes all that by getting rid of the Sith.

finti
Didn`t Lucas state in an interwiew that Anakin is the choosen one?

Ushgarak
Yes he did. And MM, the idea of 'literal' balance has been totally trashed already; GL has made it clear that restoring balance equates to defeating the evil of the Sith, and nothing else.

queeq
Indeed, only goodness=balance. GL said so himself.

Ratcat
Ankin is the choosen one. He has as much tight to the "Son of Suns" title as Luke. We don't know where he was born, but it I think we will find that Luke isn't actually born on Tatooine either.

Also, Anakin sacrafised a lot as well, taking some of the elements of Gundarks list and coparing Luke and Anakin:

1. Never knew his mother ( although Leia remembered some) - Luke
1a.Knew his mother but was seperated from her, may even see her die. - Anakin

2. Raised by an aunt and an uncle whom he didn't seem terribly close to (based on their brief time together in ANH), then finds their smoking skeletons. - Luke
2a.Raised by Strangers (The Jedi) - Anakin

3. Biggs (his closest friend) leaves Tatooine, later dies in battle at Yavin. - Luke

4. Is with Ben for a brief time, sees him die in front of his eyes. - Luke
4a.Betrays his friend??? - Anakin

5. Finds out Vader is his father (cool) - Luke
5a.Never knew he had two children - Anakin

6. Loses his hand. - Luke
6a.Looses half his body - Anakin

7. Fett runs off with Solo. - Luke

8. Returns to complete his training with Yoda, Yoda dies in front of his eyes. - Luke
8a.Betrays his teachers and may well kill most of them. - Anakin

9. On Endor, confesses to Leia and realizes he is putting his friends in danger, turns himself over to Vader. - Luke
9a.On Endor confesses to Luke that he knows it is all wrong but can npot see the GOOD way to defeat the emperor. - Anakin

10. Confronts Emporer, finds out DS weapons operational, knows Bothan spies died in vain. - Luke
10a.Realises that the majority of his life has been in vain and feels he can't be redeemed. - Anakin

11. Cannot conceal Leia's relationship to him from Vader. - Luke
11a.Realises how much he lost. - Anakin

12. Basically beats his father in duel, cuts his hand off. - Luke
12a.Takes his own son to make him see his mistakes, looses a robotic hand. - Anakin

13. Makes Emporer REAL MAD, tortured by force lightning (don't make me go off on that one again). - Luke
14a.Takes force lightening in order to destroy Emporer. - Anakin

14. This is where I give Vader his credit for his redemption and getting rid of his cranky boss.

15. Luke unmasks his father (depressing, really) and watches him die. - Luke
15a.See's his son with his own eyes just ones and then dies. NEVER sees his daughter with his own eyes. - Anakin

JediOasis
Don't get me wrong, Anakin does go through a lot, maybe more than Luke. I just think the story would be better if it turned out that Luke and Leia were the Choosen "One's" and the Jedi were wrong about Anakin.....but Lucas said that won't happen, oh well.

Ratcat
Yeah, I can see you point but that would kill the prophesy a bit. I think the prophesy is clear enough when it says the ONE who will being balance.

queeq
I have an ally, yipppeeee. Go JO.

And one could argue Luke DOES bring balance. He is the first to turn from using power by the Dark Side. He uses his hate and anger to defeat Vader, yet he refuses to turn. He chooses the Light Side, then Vader sees that that is possible and turns back as well. Balance is restored, Dark Side is no longer "the path of no return". Killing off Palpy is then merely a formality.

finti
So in other words balance is restored when VADER/ANAKIN turns back? In my mind this means that Anakin indeed is the choosen one, since his turning back brings balance to the force. Just as the prophesy said.

Ratcat
And if Papatine had been allowed to live on then that wouldn't have been balance. I think the balance only comes with the destruction of Palpatine, he would never have just rolled over and given up.

queeq
Balance to the Force!!!! Remember, not to the universe political stability.

Yoda said very clearly: "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will." OB1 warned Luke: "Don't give into hate, that leads to the Dark Side."
Luke DID give into hate in the ROTJ duel and he turned back. THEN, and only then, Vader did. They controlled the Dark Side, both of them but Luke first, and let the Light Side triumph. That is the crucial scene of the saga. Yoda also said that the Dark Side was NOT stronger. Luke and Anakin proved that. Once they conquered the Dark Side within them, defeating Palpy was not a huge effort anymore. Anakin had turned but only due to Luke who turned first. If Vader turned right after his hand was cut off and charged Palpy, I'm pretty sure he would have been killed instantly. But both Vader and Palpy believed Vader was loyal then, Vader changed his mind when Palpy was too occupied feeding his hate, catching the Emperor of guard. Therefore, a mere formality. The battle had been won right before Vader killed Palpy.

Ushgarak
Yeah, but Anakin was still the Chosen One... that may sound flippant to just say, but it ties in with my MC theory. Luke was a conduit via which the Chosen Onwe could do his work- he shouldn't have been necessary, but he was.

I should say that I still see Luke as being every bit as important as Anakin, in the scheme of things. But it was still only Anakin that was the Chosen One; no matter what had happened, Luke couldn't have brought balance; only enabled Anakin to.

queeq
Luke could have, but George decided not to. So there.

Actually, am I the only one who thinks SW didn't need this prophecy thing? Also, I think there is something wrong with the entire picture. Prophecy, Chosen One, Deliverer. Aren't these concepts from religion and mythology that refer to someone who will bring a people out of bondage, set them free from suffering? Anakin does not really do that, now does he. He causes harm and causes suffering. But as I can see now in TPM there doesn't really seem to be a need for "balance in the force". The disruption of balance still has to take place, and Anakin will help make it happen. And THEN he will balance it again. It's a bit daft, SW could easily have done without it.

Edna witch
Well personally think Anakin is the chosen one. Although at first his actions bring less balance to the force, his actions do start off a chain of events that eventually do bring balance to the force. Without him there that never would have happened. I guess it all comes back to destiny really. He was predestined to turn to the dark side, was predestined to have Luke as a son and was predestined to destroy Palpatine. Cant argue with Destiny!

Ushgarak
Now, good old queeq has touched upon a point that I have mentioned once before, and has always bugged me. He is right; Anakin brings balance to something that he unbal;anced in the first place! My metaphor is that Anakin burnt down the forest, then planeted a new one. Fair enough, but you'll have no proper forest for a hundred years. Easier to have left it there in the first place, yeah?

The only possible justification for Anakin being a hero rather than merely a redeemed villain is if the Emperor would have come to power anyway; Vader or no Vader. Seeing as Vader is the one who killed the Jedi, I find that dubious, but it is what we will have to stick with, or the set-up doesn'twork

queeq
Anakin IS the chosen one. That is fact, I don't really like it, but so be it. All I'm saying is that we didn't need the prophecy. I know GL likes mythology and stuff, but he doesn't have to drag EVERYTHING in. SW clearly can do without and then you can easily throw around phrases like "it is your dessssssssssssstiny" without being bothered. It sounds cool.

stoned4ever
why does the chosen one have to be a good guy? Mace Windu doesn't even seem to know when he speaks in Episode I? He only says "you speak of the one who will bring balance to the force" not "you speak of the one who will bring balance to the good side of the force." It seems to me that everybody has already presumed that the chosen one was a being of the good side. Anakin did bring a literal balance to the force. Before the reign of Palpatine the Jedi flourished in numbers while the sith had supposedly been "extinct for a mellenium." As stated before the count came down to Obi-Wan and Yoda vs Vader and Palpatine. The balance in the force was that between the good side and the dark side.

finti
Evil brought unbalance in the force(darkside) according to GL himself. And of course they speak of the good side of the force, if the prophesy had predicted evil/darkness then the Jedi Council would have been on the edge and never allowed Anakin to become a padawan. More like eliminated him as a threat.

queeq
Yes, stoned4ever. This has been discussed to death. Your concept of "balance of the force" is a misinterpretation of what GL means with balance. Balance of the Force is light side only, he said so himself. So once again: balance of the force is NOT, I repeat NOT, a balance between good and evil.

Dim
I don't think that's really a fair assessment JO..considering that we don't know as much about Anakin..IMHO.

Ushgarak
queeq- I wasn't saying that there is a small chance that Anakin isn't the Chosen One. You and I ar both certain that he is.

I'm just saying that from what we know of it so far, the Chosen One was a complete waste of time.

Another good/bad balance guy... we need some way to let people know some of the things the rest of us take gor granted.

queeq
Chosen One a waste of time? Amen. Ush, you're my hero after all. laughing out loud

We don't only take that balance-thing for granted, the Great Bearded and Flanelled One has spoken on this one and that is LAW.

yodaman
One of the things that has made Star Wars so special is Lucas's reliance on mythological themes. Lucas uses heavily off of the themes presented by the great mythological professor Joseph Campbell and these themes can be seen through the entire saga already. Lucas is just continuing with these themes and making them stronger in his use of the ideas of the chosen one, virgin birth, and prophecies. Therefore the mythological motifs are not a waste of time because they make what was once just a campy sci-fi adventure into something more meaningful.

queeq
Hey, Dr. yodaman, great to see you! How're the studies doing?

Anyway, I agree with you on the mythological themes, but I also feel GL doesn't need to use EVERY mythological element. I doubt that it was necessary, however mythological as it may be.

Ushgarak
Um.. I wasn't making out that the PRINCIPLE was a waste of time. Far from it. Merely the operation- Anakin corrects a situation that only he himself created. What a useless prophecy. Of course, more may be revealed...

I esem to be being misinterpreted a lot lately.

queeq
I didn't, Ush. We are agreeing on this. It does seem weird and I hope GL's got some good story to back it up.

jedi212guy
I think that we all need to put a little more trust in George Lucas. He has stated that Anakin is the chosen one. He kills Palpatine, bringing balance to the force. It's a done deal. Although I don't absolutely rule out the possibility of Luke being the chosen one, I am 95% sure that it is Anakin.

Ushgarak
Um... I think we had all agreed it was Anakin already. I certainly never thought otherwise.

jedi212guy
Sorry. I just joined as you can see the number of messages I've sent. I'm trying to get the hang of all of this. Just want to get in on some conversations.

queeq
Cool, Jedi212. Feel free to talk.

Ushgarak
No problem, it can be damn tricky, sometimes.

queeq
Not for me. laughing out loud

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