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Something I've been thinking about recently. Maybe Vader should have survived after finding redemption. Or maybe the falcon should have been destroyed trying to escape the death star. Any thoughts?

Not with Hayden as Anakin, I'll say that much.

y hate hayden?

The millenium falcon destroyed?! Actually i think it'd be cool. I dont know about vader how about say he never had a redemption and Luke battled it out hardcore? Huh huh??

I don't think Hayden belonged in ROTJ. I have no problem with him, I just think they should have left Sebastian in there.

i think it should have ended like it did?probably!!!

i think its fine the way the did it. I think the HC addition was a good add. THAT version of him is the last time he had a whole body to join th eforce with. Technically, if they were to use the body he had in the suit, he'd be a floating torso with half limbs. And i like the look that HC gives as Anakin....good, but you can still see that Vader in him sorta...like how he lowers his eyebrows and looks forward a little, ya know what i mean.

Actually, i thought about it and changed my mind. I think Luke shoulda thrown on the suit and gone and messed with everyone,lol. Just start takingcrazy nonesense and pull out his lightsaber and then be like...."HAHA, April Fools! I got you!"

Anything but have Luke and Leia be brothers and siters.that ruined the whole trilogy.

Dude, Luke and Leia being brother and sisters was the plan all along. Even in the early drafts there was the whole twin Skywalker thing.

I think it woulda been cool to have Darth Vader stop the Emperor by duelling him. Seeing red vs red, with Vader taking Sidious down, would be absolutely awesome. Then we'd see The Emperor get in one final shot of electricity screwing up Vaders suit and mortally damaging him.

Vader DID take out the Emporer, but I think you are right, if he'd have defended Luke by duelling with Sidious instead of tossing him, it may have been better. Other than that, I think having the Ewoks as being a big help was a bit lame, so maybe lose the Ewoks .

Or have Wookies as was originally suggested.

Chewie should have been lukes dad

Actually, one of the original drafts of ROTJ did have the Falcon destroyed. Lando and Co. did not make it out, which reflects back to the line Han said on the cruiser "Yeah, I gotta funny feeling. Like I'm not gonna see her again."
One idea I would have loved to have seen on the screen was from a Dark Horse comic "Star Wars Infinities: A New Hope", in which Leia is captured and trained in the ways of the Sith under the tutulage of dear ol' dad, and Luke and the gang have to go rescue her.

Jabba having Sex with that Crazy wired Pink Guy at the start who Luke says I must speak with Jabba

bib Fortuna was his name "silly pink guy," ha

I think a fitting ending would be Obi Wan coming back to life and whupping Luke's ass for being weak. Then he could whup Vader's ass for letting his son get zapped. And then he could, with the help of Force ghost Yoda, whup the emperor's ass for being ugly.

And then, while the credits roll, you all find out I am the most ultimate evil Sith lord.

While dancing and clapping in the final scene, the screen should have blurred.

Obi-Wan: "Luke, Luke! Wake up. Are you okay?"
Luke "Oww, my head!"
Obi-Wan: "Jundland Wastes are not to be travelled lightly"
Luke: "Ben? Boy, am I glad to see you!"
Obi-Wan: "Come, Luke. Lets go home..."

THE END.

LOL

I think the emperor was killed in a stupid way come on this guy is badass he molded the galaxy to his fitting. He overrides the rules and becomes Supreme Chancellor much longer then his term so he can continue to have power, he destroys the HoloNet so he can control the flow of information. He attacked five jedi's had on in a bad ass way come on and he get's killed by getting picked up and thrown over a balcony that sucked.

Not just any balcony... it was THE balcony. The balcony was the Chosen One, and the Force of Gravity was its will.

I would have had Luke try and fight Sidious, and just before Sidious struck the death blow, Vader took it to the chest, using his armor to protect him long enough to choke Sidious ou while lightning fried him up.

that is supposed to be choke sidious out

Luke should've died somehow. Then the blance to the force thing could have been complete. No more Jedi no more Sith.

Kinda depressing, no? Not that Star Wars needs a happy, scrappy, dancing Ewok ending, but it certainly doesn't require a Matrix ending.

And you'd still have Leia... it is suggested to the audience that she'll become a Jedi too someday ("pass on what you've learned" "in time, you'll learn to use it as I have". Kill her too?

No, while I think certain things could be improved upon in ROTJ, killing Luke is hardly a decent ending. The Saga is about the Skywalkers, Anakin in particular... if Luke should die, all 6 six episodes would be in vain... the Fall of the Jedi, the Rebellion, the Fall of the Empire/Sith and in the end the Fall of the future/hope? Nonono...

I suppose my deep-rooted hatred for luke -might- have biased my idea for a new ending.

Interesting... what is it about Luke you hate? Whining farmboy? Bad acting? ...

I dunno...I liked him in A new Hope..and in ESB. But every time I watch Jedi he just pisses me off. I think it's his 'I'm a Jedi Master now so i'll talk really slow' character progression.

I think I know what you mean... the ANH farm boy role fitted him, the overwhelmed Jedi student in ESB as well, I think it's sometimes difficult to accept that that same guy is all of a sudden almost a new Obi-Wan in ROTJ...

It musta been that time spent alone with R2 that just corrupted his mindset.

Mistamandalore, you have it all wrong. Balance of the force has nothing to do with the number of Jedi and Sith. The force is out of balance because Sidious' evil Sith magic corrupts the force itself, and thus Anakin was created to destroy him.

I agree with you somewhat about his character progression, but the fact is, he's the strongest (and only) light side wielder during his duel with Vader, and I think it makes sense he's much calmer and wiser.

I think the idea was to present change and growth as a character. I didn't find Luke to be annoying, really, as a Jedi. In fact, his calmness in dealing with Jabba's guards I rather enjoyed, even if it did seem a bit Sithlike. (Note he choked a guard.) But I found the mature Luke to be more enjoyable than the whiner of the past two films.

And let's ward of the debate on the imbalance of the Force, since I've seen it debated elsewhere and it gets ulgy. And excuse my friend Nefarus... he's a zealot.

Kill off Luke?

They'd have to chnage the name of ROTJ for a start.

I liked how his character progressed. In fact I have always liked Luke Skywalker.

Janus....
you're a....
zealot....
jerk....

My bad, dude. I didn't mean to offend your religion... lol

You'll be in Vader's corner til the day one of us dies. I swear.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Dude, Luke and Leia being brother and sisters was the plan all along. Even in the early drafts there was the whole twin Skywalker thing.


I seriously doubt that it was planned all along because I dont see Lucas being stupid enough if that was his original plan to have during the filming of Empire Strikes Back to have Luke and Leia kiss each other on the mouth and with passion no less committing incense.Back then Lucas knew what he was doing,but when he made Return of the Jedi its obvious he did not have a clue to what he was doing and just made that up.

The acting was just plain horrible in Jedi among the 3 main actors of Ford Fisher and Hamill it wasnt just Hamill.

Alright, many things. First off, learn to use the period and comma. Second, it's incest, not incense. Incense is something you burn to get girls motivated or to cover up the dead rat smell in the kitchen. Incest is when your sister is purdy. Third, I didn't notice any bad acting in RotJ by the three main characters, so maybe you just have a nitpicking issue. And lastly... If you reply to this, make it worth my while.

never

MR PARKER that was the plan along cuz Lucas wrote all three movies at once orignally in one humongous movie. Then he decided to do them in pieces

Oh come on, do you really believe that?

A) In the original drafts of Star Wars, there were the Skywalker twins. They became Luke and Leia. FACT.

B) Leia didn't give Luke a passionate kiss. She was digging Han, and when Han got all mouthy, she got all defensive and PRETENDED to kiss Luke passionately, it was to get Han all jealous. The movie made that pretty damn obvious. Luke was the only other male in the room. Would it have made sense for her to plant a smacker on Chewy instead?

C) Lucas didn't know if Star Wars was gonna be a hit. He didn't have time to do the whole twin thing, and so kept that idea on the backburner, but kept it open enough, that if there was a sequel, he left the Luke and Leia relationship open enough.

D) Most people are mature enough to understand it wasn't insest because they weren't aware of who each other were.

It's really that simple.

OR****** He makes Leia out to have a "thing" for family members....

What definitly should have happened, in my humble opinion, the Death Star is destroyed, the Imperial Fleet, instead of disappearing with no explanation, closes in on the now crippled rebel fleet, final destroying it in a final battle which closes with bittersweet irony, the death star, emperor and all the evil they represent are wiped away, the Empire is reborn under a new leader and set about finally bringing peace to the galaxy.

With the rebel alliance shattered there is no more terrorist actions allowing the Empire under its more understanding leaders to prosper and finally bring peace and balance to the galaxy.

(Star wars was never intended as one huge thing, the first release of star wars was never called episode IV, in addition in the first one theres inconsistencies with the other 2, for example, Darth Vader killing Luke's father (explained in epV because it was so odd yer?) also Darth Vader is his name as in Darth being his first name, not a title at all, have a look and see)

While it was called Star Wars, the original trilogy was meant to be one big movie, though it couldn't possibly be made as Ep. VI cost a large amount even back then...

Secondly, I don't see the inconsistancy as you see it, therefore I don't find it to be an issue. Darth Vader killed Anakin. Makes sense to me, from a certain point of view. And as for his name being Darth Vader, while I would imagine in the credits he was always called that. To keep his indentity secret as it should have been. It's not exactly good for the storyline to be like "Hey, here's Anakin I done killed myself according to Obi Wan but am really Darth Vader even though you don't know it Skywalker" ... acted by David Prowse. Really quite stupid, if you ask me. As is the idea that none of this was conceived until ROTJ came out. And, Mr. Parker, if you're so hooked on this incest thing (From that momentary peck of a make out session you call incest) I suggest you find better things to do with your time than to come to a SW forum and start ripping on something MILLIONS of other people have looked at and not been troubled by. And with that I leave.

Third, I didn't notice any bad acting in RotJ by the three main characters, so maybe you just have a nitpicking issue. And lastly... If you reply to this, make it worth my while.

it was perfectly obvious that the acting was not up to par like it was in the first two films.it was so lame at times.No notpicking just able to see the obvious which you obviously dont.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Oh come on, do you really believe that?

A) In the original drafts of Star Wars, there were the Skywalker twins. They became Luke and Leia. FACT.

B) Leia didn't give Luke a passionate kiss. She was digging Han, and when Han got all mouthy, she got all defensive and PRETENDED to kiss Luke passionately, it was to get Han all jealous. The movie made that pretty damn obvious. Luke was the only other male in the room. Would it have made sense for her to plant a smacker on Chewy instead?

C) Lucas didn't know if Star Wars was gonna be a hit. He didn't have time to do the whole twin thing, and so kept that idea on the backburner, but kept it open enough, that if there was a sequel, he left the Luke and Leia relationship open enough.

D) Most people are mature enough to understand it wasn't insest because they weren't aware of who each other were.

It's really that simple.

Well Lucas had a brain fart obviously when Empire was being filmed by having Leia kiss him on the mouth like that and so what if she was just doing it to make Han jealous,it was incest plain and simple because it happened between a brother and sister.just ruins the whole thing and I have spoken to many many people over the years that felt the same thing that them being brothers and sisters just ruined the whole thing in Jedi.It does not matter if she wasn't sincere when she kissed him either because she fooled Luke into thinking it was passionate obviously since Luke enjoyed the kiss with his big grin he had afterwards.The whole thing of Luke and Leia being brother and sister is completely stupid anyways because here Luke is getting a message from a robot with an image of a princess that he falls head over heels in love with and wants to go off and rescue and she just happens to later turn out to be his sister? yeah right,whatever.She also kissed Luke on the mouth again in Empire when they went back to cloud city to rescue him,she plants one right on him when he is resting on the bed.That was a horrible idea for them to become brother and sisters in jedi and many star wars fans felt insulted by it.That ruined everything about Jedi even though there were other things wrong with it as well.

You have quite an issue on that. I suggest you try thinking of a few things:

A) They had no clue. It's entirely plausible that those events would have occured as they did because neither knew of their blood relationship. That's not perversion, that's circumstantial ignorance, and hardly a sin. If you can't forgive two memorable characters for having that, then I suggest you stop watching movies altogether. Lord knows what else might irk you.

B) I think your definition of passion is somewhat lacking.

C) If you were able to see the obvious which "obviously" I wasn't... (Kinda makes me wonder... if you think I can't see the obvious, why make an obvious statement? Hm? Oh well...) you would notice that there's nothing incestual about their relationship over the movies. Like, at all. And if you are having problems with the concept, I suggest Webster's dictionary. Wilkipedia works, too. And try reading some Western classics sometimes. Might see similar situations but on a different scale, and those actually qualify as incest.

D) And just who did you talk to that was bothered by the scene? Hardcore old Puritans?

Originally posted by Mr Parker
just ruins the whole thing and I have spoken to many many people over the years that felt the same thing that them being brothers and sisters just ruined the whole thing in Jedi.

You always say things like that. You always said you knew about loads of people who hated the organic webbing in Spider-Man with a firey passion of a thousand suns.

I've done my rounds all over the internet in my time, looked on many a message board, because I'm a fan. I haven't seen THAT MANY that think like you do on these sorts of matters. Sure, I've seen many who don't like the webshooters - but most understand their existence and forgive the moviemakers for doing what they did. Same goes for Star Wars fans and the whole Luke and Leia crap.

I understand your point about the Leia-sister thing being a bit continuity-scrambling, but it can be easily forgiven due to the innocent nature of both Luke and Leia, and the circumstances involved not only in the movie, but also because Lucas had no choice but to keep Luke and Leia's true relationship open enough, because if he did get sequels to do, he would still be able to act upon the original script.

And as for Luke enjoying the kiss - so would you. He didn't know Leia was his sister. It would only been incest if Obi-Wan told him he was her brother, then he went back to the rebel ship and planted one on her.

And, depending on how you could interpret the scene, Luke may have OVEREXAGERATED his smugness in order to annoy Han even more.



Since when? 'Many' as in 'three'? 'Many' as in 'most'? No, MOST Star Wars fans know that having LUke and Leia bro and sis was the plan from the start.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
You always say things like that. You always said you knew about loads of people who hated the organic webbing in Spider-Man with a firey passion of a thousand suns.

I've done my rounds all over the Internet in my time, looked on many a message board, because I'm a fan. I haven't seen THAT MANY that think like you do on these sorts of matters. Sure, I've seen many who don't like the web-shooters - but most understand their existence and forgive the moviemakers for doing what they did. Same goes for Star Wars fans and the whole Luke and Leia crap.

I understand your point about the Leia-sister thing being a bit continuity-scrambling, but it can be easily forgiven due to the innocent nature of both Luke and Leia, and the circumstances involved not only in the movie, but also because Lucas had no choice but to keep Luke and Leia's true relationship open enough, because if he did get sequels to do, he would still be able to act upon the original script.

And as for Luke enjoying the kiss - so would you. He didn't know Leia was his sister. It would only been incest if Obi-Wan told him he was her brother, then he went back to the rebel ship and planted one on her.

And, depending on how you could interpret the scene, Luke may have OVEREXAGERATED his smugness in order to annoy Han even more.



Since when? 'Many' as in 'three'? 'Many' as in 'most'? No, MOST Star Wars fans know that having LUke and Leia bro and sis was the plan from the start.

Okay this will be my last post to you on this matter because I simply stated what I would have done differently with the way Jedi ended,this thread isn't to debate that its to say what all you would have done differently and that is for sure one of them.and you sound as though you have done an everyday door to door search of every person alive when you say you have done a search on websites and have not seen that many who are disgusted with the web-shooters like myself.Well MY experience from going to other websites is that the fan base is pretty much split down the middle 50/50 on that.I think proof of the fact that there are thousands out there that are pissed about it is in the may 2002 issue of TV guide they were talking about how there is an outrage heated debate among fans on Internet sites of people who were pissed about the change.anyone with logic or common sense knows they were only not included because of sheer laziness, nothing more. :roll eyes: The ones that forgive them are just people who will accept any kind of spider-man movie no matter how crappy it is and are just happy to finally see a spiderman film on the screen.

As far as Luke and Leia is concerned,so what if it wasn't incest? thats the message many people thought when they saw Return Of the Jedi was ewww incest!!!! I know for a fact that there are many people out there that thought the same thing because my best friends dad told me that when him and his wife saw it,when it was announced in the movie that they were brothers and sisters after remembering what happened in Empire Strikes Back he told me his wife was the one that pointed that out to him,he said that his wife looked at him and said-What do you think of that?????? and thats when "He" said to me-Talk about incest among the family.As I mentioned previously,I have spoken to many people over the years in real life who thought the same way.Just look at the 1997 issue of USA TODAY when Jedi was re released,in that article the writer talks about how many star wars fans found Jedi unlike its two predecessors.to be a disappointment and one reason they mentioned was the way the whole sky walker family saga was wrapped up-meaning they also did not like the idea of Luke and Leia being brother and sisters.Sure there probably are not that many people out there like myself who hated Jedi mostly for that,but there ARE countless people out there that agree with me on that who also thought it was completely stupid.Hate to break the news to you but the net doesn't account for all the fans out there,thats being just plain ignorant to say that most fans have no problem with it just by saying what you have seen on the net.

Maybe that last sentence sounded a little rude and I apologize if it did but I hate that old tired and lame defense of -from what I have seen on the net people are not that unhappy about it. Because thats a lame defense of something to say that because AGAIN the net DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR EVERYBODY OUT THERE.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
AGAIN the net DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR EVERYBODY OUT THERE.

Sure, the internet doesn't account for everyone, I never said that it did. I said I don't know anyone that has taken to heart just as much as you have. I should have mnetioned the fact these count people I know out of the internet, which is like, all of my friends, my family, and their friends, even strangers I have talked to in the past.

I'm a huge Star Wars fan, but the fact that Leia and Luke are brother and sister truly doesn't bother me that much. It's like Lucas has slapped you in the face or something. Let it go man. It really isn't incest.

I can see your point, I've said that before, but it really doesn't bother me. It's not incest to me. I wasn't beaten as a child and I didn't follow the ways of Adolf Hitler, so I'm a bit more forgiving when it comes to characters making very human mistakes.

Well of course theres not that many people that took it to heart as much as I have but you cant tell me that you havent come across people that have at least told you they did not enjoy jedi like they did the first two and that some of them havent told you that was one thing among other things they thought was stupid in Jedi.If you are saying that then I simply dont believe you because I have run into many people over the years that even though it wasnt as big a deal to them as it was me,they also thought that was a real stupid idea of Lucas's he came up with to put that in Jedi.

I haven't talked to a soul that speaks ill of ROTJ. Not saying they aren't out there, but then again there are always people who dislike any one thing in life. Some people swear the sky isn't blue, too. Don't see me giving them the benefit of the doubt.

And I don't think ROTJ was half as bad as you're insinuating, so I think this is where we agree to disagree and leave it at that.

And it's not incest. I had to say that.

yeah I agree that its time to agree to disagree and leave it at that because neither one of us are going to change the opinions of the other.All I got to say on that is its really strange that you havent talked to a soul that speaks ill of Jedi because I have come across so many people over the years that told me the same thing that they were very dissapointed with Jedi and how it was all wrapped up,that it did not have the same magic and wonderful feeling for them that the first two did.I will admit I HAVE come across some that have said they liked Jedi the best of the 3 but the majority usually feel the same way I do about it and its just the ones I come across that liked Jedi the best as people who did not think the whole Luke and Leia brother and sister thing wasnt corny and stupid.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
I haven't talked to a soul that speaks ill of ROTJ. Not saying they aren't out there, but then again there are always people who dislike any one thing in life. Some people swear the sky isn't blue, too. Don't see me giving them the benefit of the doubt.

And I don't think ROTJ was half as bad as you're insinuating, so I think this is where we agree to disagree and leave it at that.

And it's not incest. I had to say that.


Err, sorry, but tha IS odd. ROTJ is very famously by far the least well regarded of the original 3 (and still my least favourite of all of them).

That being said, we have had plenty of ROTJ debates already in other threads, so let's try and focus on the topic here thanks.

Yeah it is widely regarded as the weakest of all three Star Wars movies, I'll give you that.

I used to love ROTJ the most, but now I enjoy the first two a lot more. I adore ANH, I think ESB is the best film ever made, and I think Return Of The Jedi is simply "great". Its certainly the weakest of the Original Star Wars films, but it's a masterpiece comparred to the prequels and 90% of movies I've ever seen.

That said, I guess it comes down to personal preference. I like having these debates. The world would be a lot duller a place if it weren't for people like Mr Parker shaking things up a bit. I have friends who like Jedi the most (especially people a lot younger, like my lil bro), I have friends who don't like Jedi as much as the other two (like me), and there are people I know who don't like Jedi at all.

There are many reasons why people were a bit dissapointed with Jedi. Some people were expecting more from Vaders "good turn" at the end. Some were expecting more clarity (like Ush), some were turned off by the Ewoks (mainly down to the ages they saw the movies at), and some were turned off by the increased amount of muppet-like creatures, and silliness (like Boba Fetts 3-Stooges-esque demise). I don't think anyone I know has ever taken the "incest" aspect to new heights of controversy though.

Oh well, to each his own. At the end of the day, we should just agree to disagree. The fact that we are debating Return Of The Jedi's credibility shows that it failed somewhat anyway. It didn't strike that nerve with everyone that the first two did, I'll give you that. I think it was down to the fact I saw all three Star Wars movies when I was very, very young, and so I hold some bias towards those movies, because I never found anything wrong with Return of The Jedi. I think my youth made me accept it a lot easier, whereas if I was a teen or if I saw it for the first time now, I may have held ROTJ with utter contempt, but that's not how things played out. To each his own.

Im the same i used to like ROTJ best but now its ESB another wierd thing i used to only semmy like the new ones but now i like them alot more and EpII is the one i watch most often. I started reading the EU novels last year and i never liked them before to. But now they're among the best ive read....Odd

I can watch the new ones, but they frustrate me sometimes. Too much wasting time and not enough character development. I think Episode II was slightly better than I, but the duels in Ep II are absolutely terrible. The only fight worth anything is Obi-Wan vs Jango.

Argh, went off topic slightly there.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Err, sorry, but tha IS odd. ROTJ is very famously by far the least well regarded of the original 3 (and still my least favourite of all of them).

That being said, we have had plenty of ROTJ debates already in other threads, so let's try and focus on the topic here thanks.



you know i was going to take mick there but i noticed your modie status so i stoped myself, I made an enemy of Raz because i spoilied the end of KOTORII for him (of which im still eternally sorry) so i could do without falling out with another

Originally posted by Red Superfly
I can watch the new ones, but they frustrate me sometimes. Too much wasting time and not enough character development. I think Episode II was slightly better than I, but the duels in Ep II are absolutely terrible. The only fight worth anything is Obi-Wan vs Jango.

Argh, went off topic slightly there.

OH MY GOD, HEAVENS HE WENT OFF TOPIC OH THE CHAOS THAT WILL ENSUE.

quick back on topic yes...... em look ubove for my ending

Well, debates take shape like flowing currents. You can't control them all the time and there's times when you shouldn't. Things have winded down here, and we're all talking about things that we would like to talk about. The topic title is still visible to all and I don't think discussing ROTJ in any way defies the topic because it is and I quote...

"How owuld oyu have prefered the original trilogy to have ended?"

Hm. I'm too lazy to get those typos. But yeah, so the key word is ended.... or end. The last movie. That would be ROTJ. And while I will say it did lack the magic of the previous two films (ESB is my favorite too) I honestly haven't heard anyone bash the movie. Only the Ewoks. Those things should be napalmed. And the digitally remastered scene with teh dancing whatchamacallit was just over the top. I cringe when I sit through that scene.

And I agree with Red. Not enough character development, and the only good fight was with Jango and Obi. I realize that now more than I did before.

No, sorry, this is not a request. No more 'was ROTJ any good?' talk in this thread. I reject your interpretation of that being on-topic and that is the end of it. Debate ROTJ in other threads; talk here about particular closing plotlines you might have wanted to see, like the example in the original post.

I would have liked to see Luke watching his father take down the Emperor but fall unconcious from all the force lightning he took. Vader is mortally wounded and he helps Luke off the Death Star but dies by the time Luke wakes up on Endor and Luke acts a bit more upset than he did originally.

That would be an interesting ending.

And Ush, loosen up. You're sounding more like a dictator than a user-friendly mod. I mod quite a few boards and I've never addressed anyone like you have. It's rather... unwelcoming. But thanks for the input, nonetheless.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Well, debates take shape like flowing currents. You can't control them all the time and there's times when you shouldn't. Things have winded down here, and we're all talking about things that we would like to talk about. The topic title is still visible to all and I don't think discussing ROTJ in any way defies the topic because it is and I quote...

"How owuld oyu have prefered the original trilogy to have ended?"

Hm. I'm too lazy to get those typos. But yeah, so the key word is ended.... or end. The last movie. That would be ROTJ. And while I will say it did lack the magic of the previous two films (ESB is my favorite too) I honestly haven't heard anyone bash the movie. Only the Ewoks. Those things should be napalmed. And the digitally remastered scene with teh dancing whatchamacallit was just over the top. I cringe when I sit through that scene.

AHH the wisdom of Darth Janus

You had to comment on my wisdom in what is perhaps my sloppiest post ever on this board. lol

The irony.

I have a habit of doing that ol chumm

Okay here's another ending.

Luke and Vader are fighting and Vader's hand comes off. Luke, still incensed by the Emperors evil remarks hits Vader down the chest, mortally wounding him. He falls down. Luke renounces the dark side once he realises what he's done and the Emperor uses the force lightning on him. What happens is now, so angry and concentrated ot Luke the Emperor doesn't feel the presence of Obi-Wans spirit making his way towards Vader. He gets over to where Vader is and encourages him to save his son (a nice scene where you can see Obi-Wan and Vader/Anakin making up and forgiving) . Luke is one more lightning bolt from death when the spirit of Yoda surprises the Emperor. Yoda smiles at him and says" Help him now Anakin!!". Vader appears out of knowhere, force summons Luke's lightsaber and decapitates the Emperor from behind. Luke falls unconcious. Vader lifts the lighning-spewing body and throws it into the reactor. Vader helps Luke off the Death Star but dies by the time Luke wakes up on Endor and Luke acts a bit more upset than he did originally.

I think Lando should have died at the Sarlacc... You know, maybe trying to save Han Solo from Boba Fett... but there will be too much "redemptions" in one movie...

And instead of a Death Star II, make the rebels have a plan to attack CORUSCANT, it will be much big and epic.

Can someone rate my ending... pleaseeeee

Lord Shadow i thought ben said he couldn't interfere in that kind of thing??

And in the movie, when Palpy is using the force lightning on Luke, the shots of the face of Vader make the audience think: Whats he going to do? Whats he going to do?
If you put there Ben and Yoda's Ghosts you will know what he is going to do... and it does not seem as much as HIS choise.

I would mix the music louder during the emperor's death scene (the choral decressendo. I'd also reinsert the deleted scene where Vader kills a red guard.

I would have liked to have the rebels barely squeek out a win, but have chaos descend on the universe.

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
Lord Shadow i thought ben said he couldn't interfere in that kind of thing??

Why not? Obi-wan never offered an explaination as to why he couldn't interfere he just cryptically said he couldn't and left it at that.

i think it was quite a good ending but vader should have lived

Originally posted by Sans_Fi
I think Lando should have died at the Sarlacc... You know, maybe trying to save Han Solo from Boba Fett... but there will be too much "redemptions" in one movie...

And instead of a Death Star II, make the rebels have a plan to attack CORUSCANT, it will be much big and epic.

i think there was a plan to have it like that but there wasnt the technoligy

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Why not? Obi-wan never offered an explaination as to why he couldn't interfere he just cryptically said he couldn't and left it at that.

No, because Obi-Wan couldn't interfere. He knew getting involved again could make Vader stay on the dark side. Obi-Wan knew that his presence didn't inspire any of the good within Anakin, only his hate. Obi-Wan knew the only one who could reach out to Vader was his son, that's why he couldn't interfere.

Having ghost Yoda and Ben in the final Vader redemption sequence would be incredibly cheesy, too.

Red Superfly's here horaaaaah

anyway i dont know about obi wan coming back i think it should have ended as it did but on endor when yoda obi wan and anikan are there Qui Gon should have been there too.As he taught Yoda how to stay living in the force

But Qui-Gon didn't have any connection to Luke, and Luke wouldn't have known who he was. Woulda been funny. What if Lucas added in an extra line at the end of ROTJ, seeing as he had Hayden Anakin at the end:

*Luke sees Obi-Wan and Yoda, and a young man roughly the same age as him suddenly appear next to them*

Luke: "Who the f**k are you?"

Young ghost: "I'm Anakin dude"

Obi-Wan and Yoda: "Hey you little bastard we've got a bone to pick with you.........."

Luke: "Ahhhhh. Then who the f**k is that?"

Qui-Gon: "I am Qui-Gon Jinn. I taught these guys how to become ghosts"

Luke: "Oh. Um, OK. Fair do's - I don't know why you are here though"

Qui-Gon: "Neither do I. I dunno who you are really, Obi-Wan just invited me to this here party"

Luke: "Nice meeting you, whoever you are - so who's that guy?"

Mace Windu: "I came *this* close to stopping all of this crap, and that little prick cut my hand off and got me killed"

Luke: "..........."

Obi-Wan: "Hey, lets all hide before Jar Jar gets here............"

*Everyone laughs, and then hides from Jar Jar - End Credits*

Fantastic

go to the EpIII post gunrays last stand and see my ending for ROTS it doesnt contain any huge spoilers

Red Superfly, wach out the SPOILERS you said about QuiGon and Mace..........

Originally posted by Red Superfly
No, because Obi-Wan couldn't interfere. He knew getting involved again could make Vader stay on the dark side. Obi-Wan knew that his presence didn't inspire any of the good within Anakin, only his hate. Obi-Wan knew the only one who could reach out to Vader was his son, that's why he couldn't interfere.

Having ghost Yoda and Ben in the final Vader redemption sequence would be incredibly cheesy, too.

That would work with my idea though. The idea that Anakin could overcome this confusing hatred of Obi-Wan would let the audience understand why he hated him in the first place. The explaination in the time of the originals was simply he was seduced by the dark side of the force and destroyed the Jedi as more or less as an agent of the Sith (it was a duty for him, I never believed it at the time of the originals to be a personal thing for Anakin to actually hate Obi-Wan and the rest of the Jedi. Nothing suggested a personal vendetta, Obi-Wan's a Jedi, thats all Vader needs.) So I do believe my ending to be plausible because I don't let the new films interfere with my vision of what Star Wars is or should be. The new films just confuse and irritate me with the bullshit they've created.

About the ghost idea. I'll keep the Yoda ghost idea (I like this idea because it seems fitting that he should witness the fall of the Emperor) but I'll settle for the trademark Obi-Wan voice messages instead.

I think the end scene is a HUGE disappointment. The trilogy is about anakin's entire life, leading up to the point where he kills the emperor. So why did the end battle last 2 seconds? Why was it as simple as him simply picking him up and throwing him into the pit? It would have been much much better if they had to actually duel it out somehow. Palpy is supremely powerful, as has been seen throughout the movie. Windu couldn't kill him, and neither could Yoda, but Vader goes Hulk Hogan and throws him over the top ropes and it's over? Come on...

Originally posted by Vanquish
but Vader goes Hulk Hogan and throws him over the top ropes and it's over? Come on...

Vader takes off his mask, to reveal................JARJAR!!! meesa soo happy to be seein yousa luke

Originally posted by ArthasKnight
I don't think Hayden belonged in ROTJ. I have no problem with him, I just think they should have left Sebastian in there. I absolutely agree. Its such a shame to get rid of him from the movie, as he WAS the face of darth vader for decades. Screw Hayden

Well its like some member said once (can't remember who or what thread) Luke isn't going to know who the **** that is. For all he knows its some random ghost getting free entrance to the Endor party

He knows because he saw vaders face when he was unmasked. They should have kept that as sebastian shaw

But when the face is revealed at the end of ROTJ there is no way on earth he can relate that to the face of Hayden at the end. Thats why I felt it was a big mistake including Hayden in the re-mastered version because it doesn't make sense. Because Obi-Wan was old when he died, hence the old spirit. Vader/Anakin died old also but somehow got a young spirit-it makes no sense.

Originally posted by Vanquish
Windu couldn't kill him, and neither could Yoda, but Vader goes Hulk Hogan and throws him over the top ropes and it's over? Come on...

Because, back then, when Vader turned, it was amazing. It was a dramatic and sudden turn. When Vader slumps to the ground people are like "Holy crap".

Now, because the prequels are so duel-intensive, it makes that final scene look weak in comparison, mainly due to expectation.

Things weren't always settled with a lightsaber, unlike now where a duel is the be-all and end-all of everything these days.

Also, The Emperor wasn't written as a saber wielder, that's another piece of information Lucas has made up in the last twenty years since ROTJ's credits rolled. He was just a dude who could throw lightning.

Another thing back then, it was about Luke Skywalker, not Darth Vader. Vader was the secondary character to Luke in the OT. Only once ROTJ was done and dusted did Lucas come up with the idea of telling Vaders story. It's all about perspective. When the OT was first made, STar Wars had one perspective: that of Luke. Now the PT is trying to alter the perspective and make it all about Vader, when it clearly isn't.

Lucas suddenly doing a 180 and saying its all about Darth Vader is actually another thing he's plucked from his ass in order to do the prequels and justify Lukes (the hero) absence. Now its Anakin who is the hero with all this Chosen One BS. Talk about re-writing.

It was all about Luke in the OT. If you just watch the movies you can understand this. It's just another case of Lucas flitting from one idea to another, neither here nor there, and he's hurting his brilliant movies because of it.

Red Superfly, I totally agree with you, that in the original movies, that ending of vader simply turning and quickly throwing him over the pit is probably the only way to end it, because the duel already took place. Luke is the central character back then, and he already defeated vader. So back then it was a great ending, and a very good one.

However, I'm taking this thread to be about what we would change right now, in this day in time. Now that we have 6 movies, and it totally changes things to make Anakin the central character from start to finish, the last scene could be changed to reflect that aswell. Now that the movies follow the life and times of Anakin from start to fnish, it really makes the ending of ROTJ weak imo. That's what I would change if I could, a final battle to end it all would be awesome.

When there was only 3, it was a good ending I think. Now that there is 6, it's really weak imo

Why fix what isn't broken? If you want to redo anything, Episodes I and II are prime candidates.

Ya it wasen't broken before, but in light of the new episodes, it definitely is now. The release of 1,2, and 3 clearly make the story now about Anakin, not Luke as it always use to be. That means that the end battle is incomplete now. Luke vs Vader is not what the story is about now, it's much more about Sideous and Vader. Once episode 1 was released, a final battle scene between Vader and Sideous should have been added aswell to avoid the utter disappointment of people who are seeing the old ones for the first time now. Just would have been cool that's all...

Yeah, remake the prequels, not the originals.

I wouldn't change anything about the Original Trilogy to be honest.

This is one reason why the six movies can never be a full saga. It's too disjointed.

I simply like to see it as two trilogies. We have the classic OT where all the important (and best) stuff happens. The characters are great and it's a fun ride full of twists and drama. Then we have the PT which a neat little backstory.

I will never see the whole thing as one big saga. It just doesn't work. It's always going to be the classic trilogy first, and the enjoyable back story PT second. In fact I don't think anyone can truly view it all as one big 6 part saga - I'm sure deep down in everyone they all see it as two trilogies that are VERY different from each other.

I see it as one big (and much more complete) movie now. If you overlook the special effect discrepencies and some minor inconsistancies, it fits pretty well. You just have to change your focus from it being about luke, to it being about Anakin. After all, Darth vader is the coolest character in the OT, so isn't it better this way that the story shifts to his life, not some tool like Luke

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Originally posted by Red Superfly
Dude, Luke and Leia being brother and sisters was the plan all along. Even in the early drafts there was the whole twin Skywalker thing.


I seriously doubt that it was planned all along because I dont see Lucas being stupid enough if that was his original plan to have during the filming of Empire Strikes Back to have Luke and Leia kiss each other on the mouth and with passion no less committing incense.Back then Lucas knew what he was doing,but when he made Return of the Jedi its obvious he did not have a clue to what he was doing and just made that up.


Sorry for the Zombie thread. I just found this doing a Google search.

There was another hint that they were brothers and sisters in ESB. When Luke takes off to Bespin, as he leave Yoda and Bens ghost (voice) are speaking and there is mention of "another'

What I am looking for and can't find anymore is a picture of the scene where Leia is kissing Luke in front of han & Chewie. Someone had Photoshopped a picture of Bens ghosts with an expression like this :O does anyone have that pic?

D

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Yeah, remake the prequels, not the originals.

I wouldn't change anything about the Original Trilogy to be honest.

This is one reason why the six movies can never be a full saga. It's too disjointed.

I simply like to see it as two trilogies. We have the classic OT where all the important (and best) stuff happens. The characters are great and it's a fun ride full of twists and drama. Then we have the PT which a neat little backstory.

I will never see the whole thing as one big saga. It just doesn't work. It's always going to be the classic trilogy first, and the enjoyable back story PT second. In fact I don't think anyone can truly view it all as one big 6 part saga - I'm sure deep down in everyone they all see it as two trilogies that are VERY different from each other.

True dat red SF. Y'know, lucas says that the expanded universe is a parallel universe to him, when the PT should be the parallel. EU fits better than PT sometimes anyway. The only reason Ep III got so much hype was the action, and "The duel", the one we've been waiting for all our lives. After sitting back and overlooking the duel scenes, ep 3 sucks.

Originally posted by Red Superfly
Yeah, remake the prequels, not the originals.

I wouldn't change anything about the Original Trilogy to be honest.

This is one reason why the six movies can never be a full saga. It's too disjointed.

I simply like to see it as two trilogies. We have the classic OT where all the important (and best) stuff happens. The characters are great and it's a fun ride full of twists and drama. Then we have the PT which a neat little backstory.

I will never see the whole thing as one big saga. It just doesn't work. It's always going to be the classic trilogy first, and the enjoyable back story PT second. In fact I don't think anyone can truly view it all as one big 6 part saga - I'm sure deep down in everyone they all see it as two trilogies that are VERY different from each other.

totally agree... the OT has been ruined enough already with the DVD changes... its fine as it is...

and a BIG part of me wishes i'd never watched parts of the PT

i read recently that originally a Force empowered Yoda deflected the Emperor's lightning from Luke. He was invisible, escept when the lightning struck, when you could see his ghostly image between Luke and Palpatine. It would have been nice to see a rematch between Sidious and his "Little green friend" but I guess it would have detracted from Luke and Vaders redemption.

Have the rebellion suceed, but make the cost super high.
Lando: Dead
All those cute cuddley characters: Dead.
The galaxy in rules, etc.

Originally posted by ArthasKnight
Not with Hayden as Anakin, I'll say that much.
I agree with you on the ending of Jedi, I bought the DVD edition and was totally disappointed in the way they changed my favorite movies of all time. What happened to my EWOK song.

Yep, that original song actually almost redeemed the inclusion of the ewoks. The new ending, featuring the interplanetary celebrations AND the inclusion of Hayden is fantastic but Lucas ruined it all by changing the end song. Someone should do a drugs bust at Lucasfilm.

I don't think drugs is the cause of the PT mess. I blame Lucas becoming a family man. Back in the 70's, Lucas and his director buddies Speilberg, Coppula, DePlama were big into the drugs

Maybe with some more original planets.

I would have liked to see the Emperor put up more of a fight against Vader.




And thats all I'm allowed to say.

It ended in the right way.

Originally posted by Darth Traya
It ended in the right way.

Maybe show a little more of each fleet getting pounded.

A Close Shot of Luke Training new padawans in a temple with lightsabres then the camera zooming out and you see more jedis walking around and then it zooms so far out that you can see its a new Jedi Temple.

That would look amazing and would tie in with the Episode 1-3 cause they have the temple in them.

Yeah especially since Luke starts training Padawans 4 years AFTER ROTJ.

i thni kthe figte shud have been like in jed cknight aademy where iu must djum pand dodge sabes in sted of busjust blocking them coz thats boing boring and itisnot hard 2 bnlox them so if they had jumped more i fwud like it more but e2ispisode 2 was best an i cant see episod 3 yet coz my father ses so

Originally posted by Obi-Wan Kenobi'
i thni kthe figte shud have been like in jed cknight aademy where iu must djum pand dodge sabes in sted of busjust blocking them coz thats boing boring and itisnot hard 2 bnlox them so if they had jumped more i fwud like it more but e2ispisode 2 was best an i cant see episod 3 yet coz my father ses so What the hell are you saying. Stop posting until you get Grammer lessons.

Quick! Trap it before it escapes, TG!

Grrrr, gotcha! Thought you could get away did ya? 'Yer goin straight to Scotland Yard laddie.

The three best ideas I ever heard for how the series could have ended are these.

(i) Chewie dies trying to save Han

(ii) Luke reaches a higher plain of spiritual understanding (but is not yet a Jedi).

(iii) A blind clone of Obi Wan (whom Luke isn't entirely sure is good or evil) shows up and helps lead Luke to Vader and the Emperor on a cold desolate foggy planet.

These ideas, I think, were all outlined in Fantastic Films magazine the year that Jedi came out, and they gave me a real sense of excitement about what the movie could be.

Apparently Tim Zahn wanted to have Kaboth as an Obi Wan clone, but nuts to that from Lucas.

Oh, and uh, yeah, less ****ing ewoks. I would have used wookies. I also would have liked to see a wookie space battle. Wouldn't it be cool to have seen wookies screaming and roaring into your face in space cockpits at with lasers blazing? Sadly, this was an idea Lucas didn't pick up to for episode three. But whatever.

One final idea I had also was this. Vader, after turning back to good, sacrifices himself by going into the Death Star control room and heading the Death Star into another moon of Endor in order to blow up the station (let's say it's all a big con to draw the rebels in - that they could nevrer have blown it up at all). That way Vader goes out in a blaze of glory and making up for all that bad karma. I also wouldn't have taken the helmet off, frankly (I think it's better to let people have their own idea about who he is. And, by the time of eps 1-3, that question's answered. I found I couldn't emotionally connect to some guy I've met three point one seconds ago. I tried, man! But to me he's just some bald guy in a space sock). Luke and he have one last man to man talk, and then Vader seals himself in, Luke is pissed, then goes to his ship, Vader sacrifices himself (an extrapolation on the sacrifice scene with the Emperor down the Death Star shaft) - KABLAMMO! I think that could have been something. I like the way Vader clocked out in ep VI, but that could have given it an extra kick.

It's a good concept, but after the battles that have been raging elsewhere, and the emotional shit going on in the Throne Room, you couldn't have Vader going all goodie goodie, and start kickin ass all of a sudden. A little too much pizaz there.

I think the only time the Emperor was good with a saber is when fighting Mace Windu. That rocked. I think he should have never used a saber again after that, and should have fought Yoda solely with the force. Having a sidious/vader duel would be a bad idea.

The idea of the Rebels attacking Coruscant is an interesting idea, but still it wouldn't fit, because there is really nothing at Coruscant at this time besides the Emperor's palace, and if the Emperor is on the second Death Star, there is no reason to attack the fallen-Republic capital. The Grand Army is scattered thoughout the galaxy, with its jewel being the second Death Star as we see. With the emperor aboard the second Death Star, his rule is so absolute that it is now the capital and not Coruscant.

I just wish that Lucas would release a new DVD set with the horrible lightsaber effects fixed that plague the first DVD set.

I would have liked the original ROTJ version.
With two death stars above Coruscant and Endor a moon of it.
I would have loved to see Coruscant in the oldskool OT style!

I think that when luke is being zapped, vader should rise, force grab lukes saber and absorb the lightning with it. then proceed to kill a red guard or two (within a few milliseconds) and duel the emporer with lukes green saber...with his good left hand i guess and defeat him with the ghosts of qui gon, obi, and yoda looking on.

Either way, the choreography and battle scenes all need revamped.

It would maybe have been good to see the Emperor put up more of a fight when Vader picked him up. He didn't even wriggle.

the galaxy exploding would be a good ending

You exploding would have been better!

Originally posted by amity75
It would maybe have been good to see the Emperor put up more of a fight when Vader picked him up. He didn't even wriggle.

He did put up a fight. He concentrated all of his sith lightning directly into Vader.

this old thread is back? well that being the case,I stand by my earlier statement from below.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Anything but have Luke and Leia be brothers and siters.that ruined the whole trilogy.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
this old thread is back? Well, it is the second most popular thread on this page.

Originally posted by amity75
How would you have preferred the original trilogy to have ended?

Luke and Vader take over the galaxy, the bad guys finally win!

I agree with Mr. Parker. Luke and Leia being twins... once you think about those scenes with them kissing and stuff, thats just nasty. Made you sick. Anyways, I think what they should have done was they should have kept Vader alive. He was a cool character, and I hate to see him just go and die with some electric shock from the emperor, and a hand cut off, and all those years on an air tank, and being slightly in a lava pit and have your body swallowed in flames, to be put in a case over armor for over 18 years, to have had a rotten childhood, and to have your wife die, and to lose everybody you cared about, plus the ppl who cared about you and so on ando so on. Man, what a horrible life. Still, it could've been cool to see him still alive instead of a ghost at the end of ROTJ.

luke takes over as darth vader, donning his fathers armor upon his demise. He rules the galaxy more ruthless than his father and the emperor combined. Leia and Hans children must now face "Uncle Darth" to overthrow the empire. Roll credits, cash checks, etc, etc... word.

DDD

Maybe the Millenium Falcon should have been destroyed. When Han said "I've got a feelin that I'm not gonna see her again" it should have rung true. If the Falcon had been destroyed it would have been as climactic as the Titanic going down.

It also would've been a sad ending.

In one version of the script, Lando DID go up with the Falcon.

Funny thing is, I didn't even hear that from SS.

*BUMP* To accomodate the new guys.

Originally posted by Cheska
I agree with Mr. Parker. Luke and Leia being twins... once you think about those scenes with them kissing and stuff, thats just nasty. Made you sick. Anyways, I think what they should have done was they should have kept Vader alive. He was a cool character, and I hate to see him just go and die with some electric shock from the emperor, and a hand cut off, and all those years on an air tank, and being slightly in a lava pit and have your body swallowed in flames, to be put in a case over armor for over 18 years, to have had a rotten childhood, and to have your wife die, and to lose everybody you cared about, plus the ppl who cared about you and so on ando so on. Man, what a horrible life. Still, it could've been cool to see him still alive instead of a ghost at the end of ROTJ.

your a smart dude.it IS plain sick.Even if Luke didnt know she was his sister its just plain sick to think about.Lucas obviously had his head up his ass and was just making it up as he went along that they would be brothers and sisters in Jedi.You can tell in a new hope he never even had it in mind that vader was his father,he just made that up as he went along as well when empire came around,then when jedi came around,he came up with that stupid moronic idea of luke and leia being brothers and sisters.i could have accpeted Vader being his father but THAT was too much.he just came up with that so that Han could get the girl because everybody always thought Luke would. lame ass writing.

I would have to see end how it does in Infinites.

I wouldn't change a thing.
Vader does find redemption, but at the cost of his own life which is fitting, because of all the misery he caused serving the Emperor as his disciple. If he lived, he would have been tried for crimes against the galaxy anyway.

who do you think i am george lucus ???