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Sorry this is late, everyonce in awhile real life stuff happens to even me.

Scoobless one the last round. I can't remember who won the first Semi-Final round, and the search feature is being dumb and won't allow me to locate it. So could that member please just post in here saying that they won, or have someone confirm it, thanks.

And now, the final clash of the titans...belatedly.

Contestant 1 will be the first guy whose name I cannot remember.

Contestant 2 will be Scoobless.

Can each member please post his team, once both have done so, commmence the fighting.

Again, sorry for the lateness.

For first round match-ups

the first rounds were:

1. Crazyspinz vs. Scoobless - Scoobless

2. Darkcrawler vs. Scarlet Spider - Darkcrawler

3. Khellendros vs. Quick Freeze - Khellendros

4. Krissy Von Doom vs. Norrin Radd - Krissy

5. The Mighty Thor vs. Nataku - i think Nataku got a walkover due to a no-show

that left 5, now it's 3: Scoobless , Khellendros and Nataku....... so how do we play it.... me and Khel have both had 2 matches and i think Nataku hasn't had to do 1 yet........................?????

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=320613&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1

Oh crap. Right, then. I'll have a losers bracket, Quick Freeze and Norrin Radd can fight again, the winner of that will fight Nataku.

You and Khell fight, the winner of that fights the winner of the match between Nataku and the winner of the losers bracket, if that makes sense. Is that an acceptable plan, everyone?

I'm going to bed, will check in the morning.

lol............... i knew something like this would happen

Lol, like Scoobless said, I was the other one. I'm here, ready to get my ASS kicked in on the votes. Here's my team:

Everyman type - Mr. Majestic

Fairly powerful types - Dragon Man, Black Bolt

Powerful street characters - Jack Hawksmoor Jenny Sparks

Street level characters - Midnighter, Daredevil

Alright. Using their three hours of prep time, Daredevil once again fills the rest of his team in on who they are facing. Since he lives and works in New York, it's a given he would know Carnage and Puma since they are enemies of Spiderman and Vision and Hawkeye because they are or were Avengers. Graviton, being the man who suspended every superhero on earth in the air and tried reshaping the earth in his image, is probably known of by every hero on Marvel earth.

So, when the fight starts, Jenny converts to pure energy and Jack and the street fighters scatter. Quicker than Graviton can think, quicker than even Superman could move, Majestic is on Graviton and beating him to a pulp. With those two moving away, Black Bolt and Dragon Man square off with Vision and Wonder Man. It doesn't really matter how they square off, but in this case, let's say Black Bolt takes on Vision and Dragon Man takes on Wonder Man.

Black Bolt has shown the ability to create anti-matter bombs in the past. So, he surrounds himself in a forcefield, turns a small rock into anti-matter, and heaves it at Vision. Even if he's phased, he is still matter, which meanes he is going down.

Wonderman and Dragon Man is an interesting fight, but Marvel Directory says WM can only withstand temperatures of about 1,500 Farenheit. Dragon Man's breath can reach temps of 8,000 Farenheit. In addition, DM is sronger than Wonderman (class 100) and more durable than the Thing. Even if Dragon Man can't finish him, Black Bolt is able to help out.

Jack and Jenny meet up with Puma and Carnage and go at it. Jack and Puma is no contest. Hawksmoor is at base as strong and fast as Spider Man but a more vicious fighter. He has fought soldiers from a parallel earth who tried to cut him with sabers, and showed no visible injuries. Also, he can draw power from the city he's fighting in to become even stronger. Carnage is just screwed, because he would be fighting a woman who can electrocute him every time he tried to touch her and who would have no flesh to cut into.

Wehn Scourge and Hawkeye square off with Daredevil and Midnighter, it's just not much of a contest. Midnighter can see every weapon and enhancement Scourge has on him and plot a million different ways to kill him. For a man who can dodge bullets, a man with arrows is no trouble for DD.


So, that's what I have to say. Looking forward to replies.

With shields up on entry, Majestic makes the same mistake as Black Adam and gets a violent rebound from Graviton's shield, moving him away from the battle for a few seconds....... seems to be a common tactic for Superman types

Vision and Wonderman are familiar with BlackBolt and Dragon Man, so WM takes on BB and Vizz goes for DM, BB's strength and speed are inferior to WM but has more experience using his powers, this only saves him for a second until he is forced to hide behind his shield as WM pounds on it.... meanwhile..... Vizz is making a fool of the stupid Dragon Man making him fire, fly and punch through his intangible frame and every time he goes all the way through he gets tagged coming out the other side, after this set up DM is getting sloppy and Vizz sets him up just in the right position, rushes him at full flight speed, DM being highly invulnerable prepares to counter the assault and uses full flame only to see Vizz go straight through the flame and himself and bullet towards BB's back where he turns his density to maximum and caves in BB's head. As soon as Vizz makes contact with BB, Wonderman charges DM and proceeds to knock the crap out of the bewildered Dragon (dragon man is class 100 and wondy is 95 base so there isn't that much difference considering WM can exceed 95 well into the 100 class plus he is faster and a lot smarter........ isn't everyone?)

lower levels..... Hawksmoor may be as strong and fast as Spider-Man but both Puma and Carnage are stronger than him and Puma is faster than him so either of these two could give him a close battle...... i'd say Carnage would beat him, not sure about Puma

Sparks? don't know much about her but she seems to be a lot like jolt from the Thunderbolts (living bio-electricity) in an energy form it would be difficult for Carnage or Puma to hurt her...... but i'll come back to her in a sec

Midnighter and Daredevil are looking confident against Scourge and Hawkeye....... untill the momentary lack of an opponent for Graviton leaves Midnighter to ponder the many different ways he could die in the next 2 seconds..... Grav opts for a simple crushing of the duo

Hawkeye hits Sparks with an electro-disruption arrow when she is fighting Puma which stuns her back to human form, then Scourge shoots her

Majestic is hurtling back to the battle and everyone watches as his speed drops incredibly quickly, he's flying lower and slower all the time until he's forced to land....... then kneel........sweat is pouring from his face as he struggles under pressure unlike anything even he has never before encountered and he manages to force his head up in time to see a purple blur rocketing down from the heavens, unable to move himself out of it's way Wonderman collides with him like a guided meteorite...... unbelievably Majestic clings to consciousness, WM is out for the count.... but is lifted back to the sky anyway...... then back down again and again until Majestic is a bloody smear in the street

Originally posted by Khellendros


Wonderman and Dragon Man is an interesting fight, but Marvel Directory says WM can only withstand temperatures of about 1,500 Farenheit. Dragon Man's breath can reach temps of 8,000 Farenheit. In addition, DM is sronger than Wonderman (class 100) and more durable than the Thing. Even if Dragon Man can't finish him, Black Bolt is able to help out.


Marvel directory's profile of Wonderman is outdated and wrong. Here are his real stats:




It says up their he can withstand extreme temperatures of space, and ground zero of a nuclear bomb. Last time I checked, temperatures put out by a standard 5 megaton nuclear bomb, is around 10,000 degrees Farenheit. Give or take a few hundred degrees. I think Simon could withstand the Dragon's breath, but I think he would get ko'd by Black Bolt's screaming.

Originally posted by Scoobless
With shields up on entry, Majestic makes the same mistake as Black Adam and gets a violent rebound from Graviton's shield, moving him away from the battle for a few seconds....... seems to be a common tactic for Superman types
Majestic flies through suns and rends them in two. I'm sorry, but Majestic is on a whole other level compared to Black Adam. The best the shield can do is stop him momentarily, not send him flying backwards.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Vision and Wonderman are familiar with BlackBolt and Dragon Man, so WM takes on BB and Vizz goes for DM, BB's strength and speed are inferior to WM but has more experience using his powers, this only saves him for a second until he is forced to hide behind his shield as WM pounds on it.... meanwhile..... Vizz is making a fool of the stupid Dragon Man making him fire, fly and punch through his intangible frame and every time he goes all the way through he gets tagged coming out the other side, after this set up DM is getting sloppy and Vizz sets him up just in the right position, rushes him at full flight speed, DM being highly invulnerable prepares to counter the assault and uses full flame only to see Vizz go straight through the flame and himself and bullet towards BB's back where he turns his density to maximum and caves in BB's head.
BB is weaker physically, but he has defeated some heavy hitting opponents without resorting to his scream. Blasts of electron energy from Black Bolt have brought the wizard Sphinx to tears when he was being powered the Ka stone that made him immortal and strong enough to fly through space unaided. Black Bolt knocked Sphinx through the hull of his own ship and sent him tumbling into space. The stats sentry posted say Wonder Man can still feel pain. WM never gets the chance to punch through BB's forcefield.

Dragon Man can take a direct from a Howitzer shell without injury. No way is Vision able to bring that kind of power to bear. And full flight speed? He is slow as sh*t. Dragon Man may not be able to beat Vision on his own, but once Wonder Man has blacked out from the pain of Black Bolt's attacks, BB can join in.

Originally posted by Scoobless
lower levels..... Hawksmoor may be as strong and fast as Spider-Man but both Puma and Carnage are stronger than him and Puma is faster than him so either of these two could give him a close battle...... i'd say Carnage would beat him, not sure about Puma
Puma stands NO chance. He can't cut Hawksmoor with his claws and isn't as good a fighter. Carnage might stand a chance in a fair fight, but Jack doesn't fight fair. Simply liquefying the pavement all around Carnage and letting it solidify around his head takes him out.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Midnighter and Daredevil are looking confident against Scourge and Hawkeye....... untill the momentary lack of an opponent for Graviton leaves Midnighter to ponder the many different ways he could die in the next 2 seconds..... Grav opts for a simple crushing of the duo

Hawkeye hits Sparks with an electro-disruption arrow when she is fighting Puma which stuns her back to human form, then Scourge shoots her
Well, that first paragraph is flawed because Graviton will have to deal with an immensely powerful immortal Kherubim warrior pounding on his shield with a strength that can shatter mountains.

Even if Sparks did get "stunned" back to human form, she can still electrocute anyone who threatens her with a thought. Oh, and if Scourge has any electronic equipment, that's getting drained to add to her power too.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Majestic is hurtling back to the battle and everyone watches as his speed drops incredibly quickly, he's flying lower and slower all the time until he's forced to land....... then kneel........sweat is pouring from his face as he struggles under pressure unlike anything even he has never before encountered and he manages to force his head up in time to see a purple blur rocketing down from the heavens, unable to move himself out of it's way Wonderman collides with him like a guided meteorite...... unbelievably Majestic clings to consciousness, WM is out for the count.... but is lifted back to the sky anyway...... then back down again and again until Majestic is a bloody smear in the street
Actually, that's pretty unlikely. Majestic flies through stars. He has closed a black hole. Graviton just doesn't have the strength to even slow Majestic down, much less make him strain. I chose my team thinking they might come up against yours. Eveyone on my team except the street levels are either too powerful to be effected by Graviton, are pure energy that isn't effected by gravity, or fly by producing anti-gravitons, meaning they can't be easily crushed by your Everyman.


Originally posted by Sentry
It says up their he can withstand extreme temperatures of space, and ground zero of a nuclear bomb. Last time I checked, temperatures put out by a standard 5 megaton nuclear bomb, is around 10,000 degrees Farenheit. Give or take a few hundred degrees. I think Simon could withstand the Dragon's breath, but I think he would get ko'd by Black Bolt's screaming.
Thanks for the updated stats, Sentry. Did you get them from a website or somewhere else?

Originally posted by Khellendros
Majestic flies through suns and rends them in two. I'm sorry, but Majestic is on a whole other level compared to Black Adam. The best the shield can do is stop him momentarily, not send him flying backwards.

the shield hasn't failed him yet, from reading his appearances in the comics it doesn't look like Graviton has an upper limit to the level at which he can affect Gravity so ANY physical being is capable of being stopped and rebounded by his shield at full power

Originally posted by Khellendros
BB is weaker physically, but he has defeated some heavy hitting opponents without resorting to his scream.

i saw BB fight Ikarus and though he impressed him with fighting skill and "master blow" Ikarus' speed shocked him..... Wonderman is fast enough to get in and land a few hits

someone mentioned Wonderman not being able to take BB's scream...... it was set out in the rules for the tournament at the start that BB's scream is limited to class 80

Originally posted by Khellendros
Dragon Man can take a direct from a Howitzer shell without injury. No way is Vision able to bring that kind of power to bear.B]

but Dragon man is very stupid, that's why i had Vision set him up for Wonderman to help take him out

Originally posted by Khellendros
Well, that first paragraph is flawed because Graviton will have to deal with an immensely powerful immortal Kherubim warrior pounding on his shield with a strength that can shatter mountains.

no amount of physical force has thus far shown to be able to penetrate Graviton's field....... the very fact that Majestic has a physical mass means Graviton can manipulate him

Originally posted by Khellendros
Even if Sparks did get "stunned" back to human form, she can still electrocute anyone who threatens her with a thought. Oh, and if Scourge has any electronic equipment, that's getting drained to add to her power too.

but while "stunned" she is......well........"stunned" meaning she'll take a sec to get her head together and in that time she can be shot or "arrowed"

Originally posted by Khellendros
I chose my team thinking they might come up against yours. Eveyone on my team except the street levels are either too powerful to be effected by Graviton, are pure energy that isn't effected by gravity, or fly by producing anti-gravitons, meaning they can't be easily crushed by your Everyman.

i'm flattered, but you're wrong.... Jolt was pure electricity when she fought Graviton and was dealt with in a heartbeat due to electricity travelling along the electromagnetic field of the earth which in turn uses the Gravitational field for "bandwidth cohesion"..... sparks would be as easy as that. Dragon man would be virtually useless against him and would be dealt with the same as any street level character BlackBolt is class 60 max (when using his powers to increase his strength) so would be easily dealt with also...... the only one that would even take any time would be Majestic.... but he isn't immune to gravity, nothing that has any mass is!

As for Hawksmoor fighting Puma, he may very well beat him but i don't think he'd beat Carnage..... push comes to shove Carnage can extend his symbiotic tendrils inside Hawksmoor and burst him from the inside out

Originally posted by Scoobless
the shield hasn't failed him yet, from reading his appearances in the comics it doesn't look like Graviton has an upper limit to the level at which he can affect Gravity so ANY physical being is capable of being stopped and rebounded by his shield at full power
When has he EVER faced an opponent who could move Planets? Plural?

Originally posted by Scoobless
i saw BB fight Ikarus and though he impressed him with fighting skill and "master blow" Ikarus' speed shocked him..... Wonderman is fast enough to get in and land a few hits
It doesn't matter. Wonder Man isn't outrunning a stream of electrons.

Originally posted by Scoobless
someone mentioned Wonderman not being able to take BB's scream...... it was set out in the rules for the tournament at the start that BB's scream is limited to class 80
Actually, it's his whisper that's at level 80 in this tournament, which is what he's restricted to. I remembered that, thus I haven't brought it up yet.

Originally posted by Scoobless
but Dragon man is very stupid, that's why i had Vision set him up for Wonderman to help take him out
Actually, it LOOKEd like you had Vision flying through Dragon Man at "top flight speed". I re-read it now and get what you were saying. Your scenario is still flawed. Vision cannot damage DragonMan enough to make him "sloppy" or "bewildered", so they are stalemated while BB is blowing Wonder Man away with electron blasts.

Originally posted by Scoobless
no amount of physical force has thus far shown to be able to penetrate Graviton's field....... the very fact that Majestic has a physical mass means Graviton can manipulate him
Graviton has never met a physical force like Majestic.

Any amount of gravitational force strong enough to even slow down Majestic would have to be so powerful that it would tear the planet apart around them. Not very smart since Majestic can survive in space indefinitely.

Originally posted by Scoobless
but while "stunned" she is......well........"stunned" meaning she'll take a sec to get her head together and in that time she can be shot or "arrowed"
She isn't getting stunned or arrowed since your street level fighters are busy getting the life beaten out of them by Midnighter and Daredevil.

Originally posted by Scoobless
i'm flattered, but you're wrong.... Jolt was pure electricity when she fought Graviton and was dealt with in a heartbeat due to electricity travelling along the electromagnetic field of the earth which in turn uses the Gravitational field for "bandwidth cohesion"..... sparks would be as easy as that. Dragon man would be virtually useless against him and would be dealt with the same as any street level character BlackBolt is class 60 max (when using his powers to increase his strength) so would be easily dealt with also...... the only one that would even take any time would be Majestic.... but he isn't immune to gravity, nothing that has any mass is!
I didn't mean my team was emant tot ake on Graviton directly, I meant they would be able to still fight effectively in case Graviton tried just increasing the gravity in the area they were standing.

Majestic isn't immune to gravity, he is able to overcome massive gravity fields. He might feel a nudge or two from Graviton, but that doesn't mean he's going to get tossed around or anything like that.

EDIT: By the way, is Graviton visible when he's behind one of his forcefields?

Originally posted by Khellendros
When has he EVER faced an opponent who could move Planets? Plural?

i don't know if he has...... but he himself could do that very thing

Originally posted by Khellendros
It doesn't matter. Wonder Man isn't outrunning a stream of electrons.


i'm not sure what you're getting at....... why would he be trying to outrun anything?

Originally posted by Khellendros
Actually, it LOOKEd like you had Vision flying through Dragon Man at "top flight speed". I re-read it now and get what you were saying. Your scenario is still flawed. Vision cannot damage DragonMan enough to make him "sloppy" or "bewildered", so they are stalemated while BB is blowing Wonder Man away with electron blasts.

In the Vision Dragon Man part i meant DM would be confused and bewildered as to why he couldn't touch vision rather than being stunned by any force brought against him

Originally posted by Khellendros
Graviton has never met a physical force like Majestic.

He beat Black Adam easily enough..... ..... all he has to do is up the level of his assaults

Originally posted by Khellendros
Any amount of gravitational force strong enough to even slow down Majestic would have to be so powerful that it would tear the planet apart around them. Not very smart since Majestic can survive in space indefinitely.

Graviton has remarkable control over his power, he can increase the Gravity in one area and not have it affect the surrounding landscape.... of course he probably could rip the planet apart....... i just don't think he'd choose to

Originally posted by Khellendros
She isn't getting stunned or arrowed since your street level fighters are busy getting the life beaten out of them by Midnighter and Daredevil.


Puddles of skin and blood don't beat the life out of anything

Originally posted by Khellendros
Majestic isn't immune to gravity, he is able to overcome massive gravity fields. He might feel a nudge or two from Graviton, but that doesn't mean he's going to get tossed around or anything like that.


He may have overcome large Gravity fields before (i haven't read anything with him in it) but i would suspect those fields were constant rather than able to be increased or moved from one instant to another....... him pulling away from a black hole (if he did) isn't the same as having black hole or greater levels of Gravity concentrated inside him or constantly on or beneath him

Originally posted by Khellendros
EDIT: By the way, is Graviton visible when he's behind one of his forcefields?

He is, but that doesn't mean he is incapable of producing Gravity fields that light cannot escape...... he is part of and has control over all gravity, he can cause Majestic's personal gravity field to increase to the point where everything around him will stick to him....... which would be quite annoying if that included his team mates

"He can use his powers over gravity to raise his own island in the sky, and also grant limited power over gravity to anyone he wishes. This allows his followers to fly and have gravitational armor like him. These powers are still at his command and he can revoke them with a thought."


I had forgotten about this ........ Graviton can give anyone the ability to fly so we'll have Puma, Carnage, Hawkeye and Scourge using their 3 hour prep time to practice basic flying....... which will take them out of the reach of Hawksmoor and give them stronger defenses

"He can even keep the effects of his power in motion while distracted or sleeping"

this is useful too....... i wonder if the people who started the internet knew it would be used by people to look up info for comic book related battles? ....... i would think they would as they were undoubtedly geeks themselves

Originally posted by Scoobless
i don't know if he has...... but he himself could do that very thing
When has he EVER moved planets?

Originally posted by Scoobless
i'm not sure what you're getting at....... why would he be trying to outrun anything?
You brought up Wonder Man's speed. My point is, no matter how fast he is, he isn't faster than a stream of electrons.

Originally posted by Scoobless
In the Vision Dragon Man part i meant DM would be confused and bewildered as to why he couldn't touch vision rather than being stunned by any force brought against him
Fine, but Wonder Man isn't going to tear Dragon Man apart with the first blow. Dragon Man takes the hit, hits back and finds he can actually touch this guy, and goes to town on him.

Originally posted by Scoobless
He beat Black Adam easily enough..... ..... all he has to do is up the level of his assaults
Lol, in the actual comic, I don't think he'd have such an easy time. And, again, Black Adam is not anywhere near Majestic's raw power.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Graviton has remarkable control over his power, he can increase the Gravity in one area and not have it affect the surrounding landscape.... of course he probably could rip the planet apart....... i just don't think he'd choose to
But you have yet to convince me that he has the power needed to have an effect on Majestic. I'm not talking about what you think he should be able to do, I'm talking about what he HAS done.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Puddles of skin and blood don't beat the life out of anything
And a Graviton facing an immortal superman isn't going to be turning ANYONE else into puddles.

Originally posted by Scoobless
He may have overcome large Gravity fields before (i haven't read anything with him in it) but i would suspect those fields were constant rather than able to be increased or moved from one instant to another....... him pulling away from a black hole (if he did) isn't the same as having black hole or greater levels of Gravity concentrated inside him or constantly on or beneath him
You're forgetting superspeed. Majestic can land as many punches as it takes to break Graviton's base force field before he even realizes it's going down. And, at that point, he is DEAD. Majestic does not hesitate to kill his opponents.

Originally posted by Scoobless
He is, but that doesn't mean he is incapable of producing Gravity fields that light cannot escape...... he is part of and has control over all gravity, he can cause Majestic's personal gravity field to increase to the point where everything around him will stick to him....... which would be quite annoying if that included his team mates
BINGO. Majestic can hit the field with two punches at superspeed, decide to try somethind else, blur behind Graviton and hit him in the back of the skull with laser vision. This isn't heat vision, it's a laser, which means it is light. Which means it can get through Graviton's forcefield just like any other visible light.

Originally posted by Scoobless
"He can use his powers over gravity to raise his own island in the sky, and also grant limited power over gravity to anyone he wishes. This allows his followers to fly and have gravitational armor like him. These powers are still at his command and he can revoke them with a thought."


I had forgotten about this ........ Graviton can give anyone the ability to fly so we'll have Puma, Carnage, Hawkeye and Scourge using their 3 hour prep time to practice basic flying....... which will take them out of the reach of Hawksmoor and give them stronger defenses

"He can even keep the effects of his power in motion while distracted or sleeping"

this is useful too....... i wonder if the people who started the internet knew it would be used by people to look up info for comic book related battles? ....... i would think they would as they were undoubtedly geeks themselves
Fine, they can all fly. Haksmoor tells Jenny to take care of them. She electrocutes them all in midair, the same way she burnt out a fleet of alien attack ships in the Authority.

Originally posted by Khellendros
You brought up Wonder Man's speed. My point is, no matter how fast he is, he isn't faster than a stream of electrons.

but he is faster than Black Bolt in both movement speed and reflex speed

Originally posted by Khellendros
Fine, but Wonder Man isn't going to tear Dragon Man apart with the first blow. Dragon Man takes the hit, hits back and finds he can actually touch this guy, and goes to town on him.

I never meant to imply it would only take one hit, but Wonderman is smaller faster and pretty much as strong...... not to mention smarter, more experienced and better trained in the use of his powers.....Dragon Man is just a big slow moving target to him

Originally posted by Khellendros
But you have yet to convince me that he has the power needed to have an effect on Majestic. I'm not talking about what you think he should be able to do, I'm talking about what he HAS done.

the thing is he (as a bad guy) doesn't make as many appearances, so we can only go by what was done the last time or two he showed up..... unless you just want to go by the fact that nothing has gotten through his shield

Originally posted by Khellendros
You're forgetting superspeed. Majestic can land as many punches as it takes to break Graviton's base force field before he even realizes it's going down. And, at that point, he is DEAD. Majestic does not hesitate to kill his opponents.

Graviton has killed without mercy as well and the Force field may not even be breakable....... going by "what he HAS done"......

Originally posted by Khellendros
BINGO. Majestic can hit the field with two punches at superspeed, decide to try somethind else, blur behind Graviton and hit him in the back of the skull with laser vision. This isn't heat vision, it's a laser, which means it is light. Which means it can get through Graviton's forcefield just like any other visible light.

actually the shield has blocked many types of energy blast including lasers as well as Visions infrared and microwave blasts, which work on the same principles as light.... it also blocked blasts from Thor's hammer

as for getting behind him to use it.... the shield is spherical, it works just as well on his blind side...... not that he has a "blind side" as he can sense the gravity disturbances caused by his opponents bodies

Originally posted by Khellendros
Fine, they can all fly. Haksmoor tells Jenny to take care of them. She electrocutes them all in midair, the same way she burnt out a fleet of alien attack ships in the Authority.

I didn't say they would all be flying all the time, just that they could if they needed to, they aren't experienced with flight and will not overuse it and leave themselves vulnerable to this sort of attack

maybe we should appeal to a moderator to change the names in the voting field........ y'know........ incase anyone decides to vote.......

Originally posted by Scoobless
maybe we should appeal to a moderator to change the names in the voting field........ y'know........ incase anyone decides to vote.......
LOL That might be nice. Of course, the mods haven't even gotten around to taking down the last tournament thread, so who knows how possible that is.

Originally posted by Scoobless
but he is faster than Black Bolt in both movement speed and reflex speed
And Blakc Bolt would know this, if not before the fight began then certainly after the first punch he took form WM. Then, it's all electron blasts till unconsciousness, baby.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I never meant to imply it would only take one hit, but Wonderman is smaller faster and pretty much as strong...... not to mention smarter, more experienced and better trained in the use of his powers.....Dragon Man is just a big slow moving target to him
You'll notice I haven't been arguing that WM would beat DM. My point is that DM is more than powerful enough to keep WM busy until Black Bolt can step in.

Originally posted by Scoobless
the thing is he (as a bad guy) doesn't make as many appearances, so we can only go by what was done the last time or two he showed up..... unless you just want to go by the fact that nothing has gotten through his shield
But he has made enough appearances that you decided to choose him as your everyman. Has anything his forcefield repelled even come close to what Majestic could bring against him?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Graviton has killed without mercy as well and the Force field may not even be breakable....... going by "what he HAS done"......
But see, we know that anything with a gravitational pull as storng as a black hole or our sun can be easily resisted by Majestic. There is some doubt Graviton could even produce a field that strong. Unless I've missed something, we've never seen Graviton stand up to anything close to hundreds of beyond class 100 punches per second.

Originally posted by Scoobless
actually the shield has blocked many types of energy blast including lasers as well as Visions infrared and microwave blasts, which work on the same principles as light.... it also blocked blasts from Thor's hammer
Aah, but that was infrared and microwave radiation, they weren't visible light. Majestic's laser vision is indeed visible light. The fact that he could be seen means his forcefield does not block that piece fot he electromagnetic spectrum out.

Originally posted by Scoobless
as for getting behind him to use it.... the shield is spherical, it works just as well on his blind side...... not that he has a "blind side" as he can sense the gravity disturbances caused by his opponents bodies
I know it's spherical. The point of getting behind him is that he would have no chance of blocking the laser vision. And, at superspeed, Majestic can be behind him and burning away his skull before Graviton's brain processes the gravity disturbances.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I didn't say they would all be flying all the time, just that they could if they needed to, they aren't experienced with flight and will not overuse it and leave themselves vulnerable to this sort of attack
Well then what's the point? I mean, you just admitted that they aren't as skilled at using the powers as Graviton, which means even if they managed to beat everyone else (incredibly unlikely), Jenny could still electrocute them.


EDIT:
Originally posted by Scoobless
this is useful too....... i wonder if the people who started the internet knew it would be used by people to look up info for comic book related battles? ....... i would think they would as they were undoubtedly geeks themselves
Man, whether they did or not, it IS damn useful. Hell, internet research is how I've kept Bishop vs Doom going so long.

please tell me you are not on the side of Bishop in the Bishop/Doom thread.......

Originally posted by Khellendros
And Blakc Bolt would know this, if not before the fight began then certainly after the first punch he took form WM. Then, it's all electron blasts till unconsciousness, baby.

Unless Vision takes a pot shot at him with his microwave beam before engaging Dragon Man, that would hurt if not kill him with his attention focused on WM, if it only hurt him it would leave him open to a good skull cracking from WM

Originally posted by Khellendros
But he has made enough appearances that you decided to choose him as your everyman. Has anything his forcefield repelled even come close to what Majestic could bring against him?

he repelled Thor's strongest physical blows and his godforce blast

Originally posted by Khellendros
But see, we know that anything with a gravitational pull as storng as a black hole or our sun can be easily resisted by Majestic. There is some doubt Graviton could even produce a field that strong. Unless I've missed something, we've never seen Graviton stand up to anything close to hundreds of beyond class 100 punches per second.

maybe not hundreds per second, but his shield has been left unaffected by other class 100 guys....... there's no reason to assume that 100 hits would have any more effect than 1 hit as it isn't a solid physical object that is trying to be broken, besides the faster you try to punch the less force you get into each shot.... it wouldn't be like loads of full force punches, just a lot of mediocre ones

Originally posted by Khellendros
Aah, but that was infrared and microwave radiation, they weren't visible light. Majestic's laser vision is indeed visible light. The fact that he could be seen means his forcefield does not block that piece fot he electromagnetic spectrum out.

infrared is light whether it is visible to humans or not (Wonderman can see in infrared)
However, when going against the Redeemers Fixer was present with his tech pack, he performed a full scan of Graviton and had the ability to use or create weapons that would prove useful via the tech pack...... if a simple laser would have worked he'd have used it........ he also held all of earth's heroes suspended in the air....... including Photon.....(or captain marvel, or whatever she's called now) and she can transform into any part of the electromagnetic spectrum including light but she couldn't escape

Originally posted by Khellendros
Well then what's the point? I mean, you just admitted that they aren't as skilled at using the powers as Graviton, which means even if they managed to beat everyone else (incredibly unlikely), Jenny could still electrocute them.

no they aren't as skilled at flight as graviton but with 3 hours of prep he can teach them how to use their shields properly at the very least.
the point is that they will have additional speed, maneuvering ability and resistance to injury in their individual battles ....... for example: if Hawksmoor tried to "liquefy the pavement" they could easily escape through flight...... hell they could just float off the ground against him just to be safe
(the criminals he recruited to "sky island" used their newfound powers to an effective degree within hours of receiving them)

even Wonderman and Vision who can already fly would be given additional shielding and with Wonderman practically indestructible already that means trouble for Dragon Man and Black Bolt

and when they do beat everyone else.......if jenny is still around, Graviton can tear her apart with a thought..... exactly like he did to jolt

SIDE NOTE:

Originally posted by Khellendros
Majestic flies through suns and rends them in two. .

this has been bugging me........ physically speaking, exactly how can a human sized person, of any strength level, rip a star apart? stars are made of gas and have enormous gravity.......... if part of it were somehow moved the gravity would pull it back......like a solar flare........ how can it been torn apart?????

Originally posted by Khellendros
He has closed a black hole.

again..........HOW? ............ lol............... the physical realities of it seem ludicrous...... how do you close a black hole????

these two tasks seem pretty ridiculous for a person of physical power, regardless of how much he might have........ if you have the comics i'd love to hear how it was explained

BUMP!

-DM

Originally posted by Scoobless
Unless Vision takes a pot shot at him with his microwave beam before engaging Dragon Man, that would hurt if not kill him with his attention focused on WM, if it only hurt him it would leave him open to a good skull cracking from WM
Unless of course BB had a shield up, which he would if he was even thinking of fighting Wonder Man OR Vision.

Originally posted by Scoobless
he repelled Thor's strongest physical blows and his godforce blast
Hasn't Juggernaut stood up to the godforce blast?

Originally posted by Scoobless
maybe not hundreds per second, but his shield has been left unaffected by other class 100 guys....... there's no reason to assume that 100 hits would have any more effect than 1 hit as it isn't a solid physical object that is trying to be broken, besides the faster you try to punch the less force you get into each shot.... it wouldn't be like loads of full force punches, just a lot of mediocre ones
Actually, coming from a man as strong as Majestic, even less than full power haymakers would still be devastating. Also, taking hits from other class 100 guys is NOT taking hits from Majestic. Huge difference in power.

Originally posted by Scoobless
infrared is light whether it is visible to humans or not (Wonderman can see in infrared) However, when going against the Redeemers Fixer was present with his tech pack, he performed a full scan of Graviton and had the ability to use or create weapons that would prove useful via the tech pack...... if a simple laser would have worked he'd have used it........ he also held all of earth's heroes suspended in the air....... including Photon.....(or captain marvel, or whatever she's called now) and she can transform into any part of the electromagnetic spectrum including light but she couldn't escape
I know infrared light is still light, but that doesn't make it the exact same thing as visible light. The fact is that visible light passes through his shield, and that's what Majestic's laser vision is. And against someone who operates at superspeed, Graviton has no chance of countering it. The thing is, maybe it didn't occur to the writers of that particular comic when they were writing for Fixer and Photon, but the fact that they put Graviton inside a see-through forcefield means that the visible spectrum of light can and does pass through his shields.

Originally posted by Scoobless
no they aren't as skilled at flight as graviton but with 3 hours of prep he can teach them how to use their shields properly at the very least. the point is that they will have additional speed, maneuvering ability and resistance to injury in their individual battles ....... for example: if Hawksmoor tried to "liquefy the pavement" they could easily escape through flight...... hell they could just float off the ground against him just to be safe (the criminals he recruited to "sky island" used their newfound powers to an effective degree within hours of receiving them)
Jack's only weapons aren't his strength and speed, he speaks to the city he is fighting in. He can order buildings to crush opponents and he can ignite gas mains. Their shields may be strong, but I doubt they can stand up to every building in the area being out to destroy them AND the attacks from BB and Jenny.

Originally posted by Scoobless
even Wonderman and Vision who can already fly would be given additional shielding and with Wonderman practically indestructible already that means trouble for Dragon Man and Black Bolt

and when they do beat everyone else.......if jenny is still around, Graviton can tear her apart with a thought..... exactly like he did to jolt
Unless they become deaf when in their shields, Black Bolt's quasi-sonic scream is going to mess them up. Hell, Black Bolt as saved the Thing from a group of miniature black holes created by Graviton by containing them in a magnetic field. Your boys are in trouble when every time they try to manipulate gravity Black Bolt traps them and slams them together.

Jenny IS electricity. She can travel through power lines or anything else that conducts electricity. Even if he could disperse her, she could simply draw on more energy from the surrounding power grid.

Originally posted by Scoobless
please tell me you are not on the side of Bishop in the Bishop/Doom thread.......
LOL Not on that side? I'm the one who STARTED the thread! I'm actually as surprised as anyone it went on as long as it did... >_>

Originally posted by Scoobless
this has been bugging me........ physically speaking, exactly how can a human sized person, of any strength level, rip a star apart? stars are made of gas and have enormous gravity.......... if part of it were somehow moved the gravity would pull it back......like a solar flare........ how can it been torn apart?????
Yeah, he actually flew into the sun, stayed at the center for, if I remember correctly, a week, while he performed a very lengthy spell to split the sun into a binary star.

Originally posted by Scoobless
again..........HOW? ............ lol............... the physical realities of it seem ludicrous...... how do you close a black hole????
I don't think they ever explained How it worked, but he built some pair of gauntlets that let him grasp the event horizon and disrupt or neutralize it, and since he was the only one on earth who could survive going into or near the event horizon, he went out and flew it in there. I know they aren't the best explanations, but that's all I remember, and I can't find the comics themselves.

Originally posted by Khellendros
Unless of course BB had a shield up, which he would if he was even thinking of fighting Wonder Man OR Vision.

if he's focusing his power into his shield he can't do much else though, especially if splitting his focus means Wonderman busting through the shield......which means he isn't going anywhere and and Vision could blindside him

Originally posted by Khellendros
Hasn't Juggernaut stood up to the godforce blast?

yeah.... when he was channeling the entire power of Cyttorak and was completely invulnerable

Originally posted by Khellendros
Actually, coming from a man as strong as Majestic, even less than full power haymakers would still be devastating. Also, taking hits from other class 100 guys is NOT taking hits from Majestic. Huge difference in power.

Thor's hammer strikes and blasts are at least as strong as any other 100 class character...... especially when he's pissed off or using Godforce.....(stupid name by the way...... isn't everything a "God" does "Godforce"?)

Originally posted by Khellendros
I know infrared light is still light, but that doesn't make it the exact same thing as visible light. The fact is that visible light passes through his shield, and that's what Majestic's laser vision is. And against someone who operates at superspeed, Graviton has no chance of countering it. The thing is, maybe it didn't occur to the writers of that particular comic when they were writing for Fixer and Photon, but the fact that they put Graviton inside a see-through forcefield means that the visible spectrum of light can and does pass through his shields.

i keep forgetting things that Graviton has done in the past....... he can increase the density of his own body to the point where a laser beam would affect him as much as a day on the beach but without the skin cancer part (if it could pass through his shield..... i'm still not fully convinced as gravity does affect light) ........ had i recalled this earlier i would definitely have mentioned it..... so he enters the battle very dense (and i don't mean stupid) and non-laser-killable

Originally posted by Khellendros
Jack's only weapons aren't his strength and speed, he speaks to the city he is fighting in. He can order buildings to crush opponents and he can ignite gas mains. Their shields may be strong, but I doubt they can stand up to every building in the area being out to destroy them AND the attacks from BB and Jenny.

perhaps, perhaps not, which is why i have given them the ability to fly out the way if it looks like that may happen....... also Grav can perform multiple tasks at once..... and crushing a city would be childsplay to him in recent appearances

But BB will be busy (or dead) elsewhere

Originally posted by Khellendros
Unless they become deaf when in their shields, Black Bolt's quasi-sonic scream is going to mess them up. Hell, Black Bolt as saved the Thing from a group of miniature black holes created by Graviton by containing them in a magnetic field.

again BB will be busy elsewhere at the very least..... the scream will do as much damage to the buildings .......hurting Hawksmoor....... and to your street characters as it will to my powerful street and street guys.... it'll even "hurt" Dragon Man more than a reinforced Wonderman

i wasn't going to bring up black holes, but as you mentioned them...... with Graviton having MUCH more control over his powers now than when he encountered the thing, he could create a mini-black hole next to everyone of your guys........ or inside them

Originally posted by Khellendros
Jenny IS electricity. She can travel through power lines or anything else that conducts electricity. Even if he could disperse her, she could simply draw on more energy from the surrounding power grid.

so is Jolt and it took her a long time to pull herself back together

so, Grav is suped up to class 100 physical invulnerability levels, everyone can fly which makes most of them faster and there is the possibility a black hole could open inside any of your team at any time

i wonder what i'll remember about my teams powers later.......

Originally posted by Scoobless
if he's focusing his power into his shield he can't do much else though, especially if splitting his focus means Wonderman busting through the shield......which means he isn't going anywhere and and Vision could blindside him
Actually, he can still fly and create containment fields around enemies, so keeping up a personal forcefield while fighting with Wonderman isn't out of the norm. Hell, in one of GRaviton's appearance, he sent a gravity field into the sun to gather power and was bringing it back to earth to use. Black bolt actually surrounded himself in a forcefield strong enough to protect him in space, flew up there and used his electron powers to denote the -- whatever you would call Graviton's attack -- long before it hit earth.

Originally posted by Scoobless
yeah.... when he was channeling the entire power of Cyttorak and was completely invulnerable
Was this eighth day juggernaut, the same one who got his armor clawed up by that other exemplar?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Thor's hammer strikes and blasts are at least as strong as any other 100 class character...... especially when he's pissed off or using Godforce.....(stupid name by the way...... isn't everything a "God" does "Godforce"?)
There's no debating Thor is strong, but he doesn't operate at the same speeds as Majestic. In the time it would take Thor to land two of his best hammer blows against Graviton's shield, Majestic could land dozens of blows of similar strength. (Lol, maybe Godforce is like Godly Chi or something like that, who knows?)

Originally posted by Scoobless
i keep forgetting things that Graviton has done in the past....... he can increase the density of his own body to the point where a laser beam would affect him as much as a day on the beach but without the skin cancer part (if it could pass through his shield..... i'm still not fully convinced as gravity does affect light) ........ had i recalled this earlier i would definitely have mentioned it..... so he enters the battle very dense (and i don't mean stupid) and non-laser-killable
When Majestic had to move the Earth to a different place in the solar system, he used his laser vision to heat the planet in place of the sun. Besides, Majestic is acting at superspeed, using his laser vision form behind. Graviton wouldn't even have time to change his density before he was dead.

Originally posted by Scoobless
perhaps, perhaps not, which is why i have given them the ability to fly out the way if it looks like that may happen....... also Grav can perform multiple tasks at once..... and crushing a city would be childsplay to him in recent appearances
Graviton won't be performing any other tasks when he's getting his head burned off by Majestic. And once he's gone, Majestic is free to help mop up the other mini-Gravitions.

Originally posted by Scoobless
But BB will be busy (or dead) elsewhere
Busy kicking Vision or Wonderman's head in? Yes. Dead? I don't think so.

Originally posted by Scoobless
again BB will be busy elsewhere at the very least..... the scream will do as much damage to the buildings .......hurting Hawksmoor....... and to your street characters as it will to my powerful street and street guys.... it'll even "hurt" Dragon Man more than a reinforced Wonderman
BB isn't going to be held up very long fighting Vision or Wonderman, his powers are just too versatile and he is the consummate warrior. Vision is a thinker and Wonderman is a brick.

Originally posted by Scoobless
i wasn't going to bring up black holes, but as you mentioned them...... with Graviton having MUCH more control over his powers now than when he encountered the thing, he could create a mini-black hole next to everyone of your guys........ or inside them
And Black Bolt can just as quickly contain them. He didn't see that attack Graviton had been bringing back fromt he sun, he sensed it. Black holes aren't going to open instantly, and the second he senses one, Black Bolt can can contain and neutralize them.

Originally posted by Scoobless
so is Jolt and it took her a long time to pull herself back together
Jenny has been fighting and using her power for nearly a hundred years. How old was Jolt? Late twenties at BEST? Big difference in experience.

Originally posted by Scoobless
so, Grav is suped up to class 100 physical invulnerability levels, everyone can fly which makes most of them faster and there is the possibility a black hole could open inside any of your team at any time

i wonder what i'll remember about my teams powers later.......
So, Majestic is just as invulnerable, operates at superspeed, is an inventor and has access to Kherubim (the name of his race) spells, is immortal and has been fighting and killing monsters and super powered creatures since before his powers fully manifested millenia ago.

Black Bolt has fought and held his own for a time with Gladiator who was enraged over the fact that he thought the Inhumans had assassinated the Majestrix. He can counter Graviton's gravity attacks with magnetic force and has made the Hulk his b*tch on two or three seperate occasions (I don't think the Hulk has ever successfully beaten him).

there's no way Black Bolt's level of control over magnetism could counter Graviton..... i highly doubt Magneto could do it

The clawed guy in the eighth day thing had some weird exemplar power as well that allowed him to do that...

Grav doesn't have to up his density during the fight, he does it in the prep time

Grav's shield isn't a solid thing that can break i doubt anyone shy of Galactus, or maybe Odin could punch through it

BB may be experienced but WM and Vizz have practically the same brainwaves and work extremely well together... the fact that you chose the moronic Dragon Man would work against your team as WM and Vizz do a tag team on them

how could BB contain a black hole inside someone? wouldn't he end up causing just as much damage attempting it? even if he could contain them he is not nearly as quick as Grav with this type of power involved

Sparks experience isn't in question, her very nature is....... she's electricity therefore she is vulnerable (and i think Jolt's only around 16-17)

you said the spell majestic used on the sun took a week..... this fight aint lasting that long..... as soon as Maj stalls against the shield all your flesh and blood team mates get squashed, leaving sparks (who gets ripped apart) Hawksmoor...... WM can destroy the city while Grav takes on Maj and possibly DM..... but if he is still around WM and Vizz can take him down before they get to Hawksmoor

sorry i didn't do the pasting thing but i'm tired and about to go to sleep

we got two badass top guys here...... more people showed be showing interest

http://www.koolpages.com/vantage/graviton.gif

so i fight against quick freeze?

my team:

Martian Manhunter
Nimrod
Mr Sinister
Superboy
Quicksilver
Taskmaster
Elektra

It's a shame there isn't more interest (in voting, that is) especially with 199 views and only 2 votes...I didn't want to own up to voting yet (but I have), because it would tell who I voted for, but I tried to mention this thread on a couple of others, but no bites yet. For what it's worth I think it's a great battle

...and anyone that didn't get the memo...
Contestant 1 = Khellendros
Contestant 2 = Scoobless

...thought that might be deterring some people.

-DM

Scoobless:
Actually, from what I've seen, people here htink Magneto could do it. I beleive magnetism is considered tob e stronger than gravity. Anyways, Black Bolt doesn't have to be the supreme controller of magnetism, he only has to be able to contain and neutralize the black holes, which he has shown he can do.

True. So, Exemplars>God force, then?

Upping his density before the fight still won't make a difference. Majestic has more than enough power needed to kill him with his laser vision.

I basically chose Dragon Man as Grade AAA cannon fodder. He's tough, insanely strong and breathes fire. I've got more than enough brains in all my other team memebers to make up for it. He's a big angry cruise missile, you point him at something and tell him to hit it until it breaks. With DM harrying one of them for a short time, Blakc Bolt is more than capable of picking off Vision and Wonderman one at a time.

How? Well, in the other comic he created a magnetic field that neutralized them. I don't see why a magnetic field would do anywhere near as much damage as, say, an unopposed black hole.And, how do you know how quick BB is? A simple magnetic field seems a lot easier and faster to create than a superdense ball of gravity. Especially if Black Bolt senses it happening.

Maybe she is. But vulnerable doesn't guarantee he can disperse her. For all you know, whatever it is that hold her energy for together could be able to overpower Graviton's trying to pull her apart.

Yes, the spell to tear the SUN in half took a week. I don't know much about sun splitting spells, but is seems like he made good time to me. >_> Even if the field does stop Majestic, he can recover and try another avenue of attack before Graviton even realizes something hit his shield. I agree, though, about wishing more people would vote or post in here. We seem to be doing the Unstoppable force versus Immovable object thing here.

Norrin: I'm not sure, but I think your fight with Quick Freeze is gonna happen in another thread, since Scarlet can't add you to the poll. I am definitely looking forward tot aht fight, though. I do wonder whow ould win in a fight between MM and Supes.

DigiMark: Thanks. I agree, it's kinda funny that so many people are looking in but no one is voting either way. Oh well, maybe they think we're too evenly matched to decide?

ok, i PM'd Paola and got her to change the names in the vote field

Originally posted by Khellendros
Scoobless:
Actually, from what I've seen, people here htink Magneto could do it. I beleive magnetism is considered tob e stronger than gravity. Anyways, Black Bolt doesn't have to be the supreme controller of magnetism, he only has to be able to contain and neutralize the black holes, which he has shown he can do.

i don't think Magneto is stronger than Graviton (if he was i might have picked him) Magneto wouldn't be able to move if Graviton didn't let him

Magnetism stronger than gravity?.....i can't answer that.... i do believe that everything reacts to gravity (if, in some cases, only subtly) and not everything reacts to magnetism, thereby making gravitational powers more universally useful...... i've never heard of a magnetic phenomenon that has the same "power" as a black hole....... at least i don't think i have

he may be able to neutralize a black hole but can he do multiple ones? can he do anything if it appears inside someone?

any decent increase of gravity focused inside a person will collapse their body..... even if it isn't a black hole

Originally posted by Khellendros
True. So, Exemplars>God force, then?

all i know is Thor couldn't hurt him but the little exemplar could....... i can't explain it..... must have been a part of his power

Originally posted by Khellendros
Upping his density before the fight still won't make a difference. Majestic has more than enough power needed to kill him with his laser vision.

it will make a difference, density matters a lot when attempting to burn things....... small example.......focus sunlight through a magnifying glass and you can burn paper relatively easily, try it on a much denser substance ie. iron and it will have no effect (well maybe some, but nothing worth mentioning) Graviton's density increase is like that, he can increase his density to a factor that any laser will have as much effect as shining a torch on his skin

Originally posted by Khellendros
I basically chose Dragon Man as Grade AAA cannon fodder. He's tough, insanely strong and breathes fire. I've got more than enough brains in all my other team memebers to make up for it. He's a big angry cruise missile, you point him at something and tell him to hit it until it breaks. With DM harrying one of them for a short time, Blakc Bolt is more than capable of picking off Vision and Wonderman one at a time.

Wonderman has taken on the entire Avengers before, as has Vision neither of them are lightweights and either would be at LEAST a match for Black Bolt....... i don't think BB can put WM down with any of his attacks and WM has far superior strength, speed and invulnerability.
Vision is way to smart to slug it out with Dragon Man, but he would find a way to beat him (maybe try the phased hand through the brain trick) or set him up for a switch over with a team mate

Originally posted by Khellendros
Maybe she is. But vulnerable doesn't guarantee he can disperse her. For all you know, whatever it is that hold her energy for together could be able to overpower Graviton's trying to pull her apart.

if she's living electricity then she has to use the planets magnetic wavelengths to travel...... otherwise she would have no control over her movement

Originally posted by Khellendros
Yes, the spell to tear the SUN in half took a week. I don't know much about sun splitting spells, but is seems like he made good time to me. >_> Even if the field does stop Majestic, he can recover and try another avenue of attack before Graviton even realizes something hit his shield.

i doubt he'd take time to cook up a spell in the middle of a fight like this anyway..... any delay and he's fu*ked

Graviton can "feel" everything on the planet and has travelled at near light speed, i'm sure he'd be aware of impacts on his shield as soon as they happened

I don't think brute strength is getting through Grav's field and his molecular density increase means a laser attack is nothing more than a day on the beach..... Maj, or anyone for that matter, will have to rely on more than sheer power to beat Grav..... he has lost before but only because of A) losing control over his own powers (which he has overcome) and B) letting his arrogance over rule his common sense...... he has learned from these lessons and wont be making the same mistakes again

with casual use of his power he held almost the entirety of earth's heroes helpless in the air along with all the major cities...... with almost all his power focused on Majestic there's no way Majestic could resist being crushed...... speed doesn't even come into it, it isn't a case of aim or line of sight, Grav only has to know what he wants stopped and it stops...... all this power focused on killing any one single man (short of skyfather) and he is going to be a dead man..... dead and small, be able to fit into puck's pocket, small

i just realised i never posted my team.....lol........ for anyone who doesn't know yet it's

Graviton
Wonderman + Vision
Carnage + Puma
Scourge + Hawkeye

although, if you didn't know, you should have........ go read the arguments posted so far!

Originally posted by Scoobless
i don't think Magneto is stronger than Graviton (if he was i might have picked him) Magneto wouldn't be able to move if Graviton didn't let him
Yeah, it has something to do with the four fundamental forces of the universe (electromagnetism, gravity, strong and weak nuclear force) and the fact taht electromagnetism is simply more potent than gravity, but gravity is the more "important" force because electromagnetism only works between positive and negative charges. So... yeah. All things being equal, Magneto would be the stronger of the two.

Originally posted by Scoobless
i've never heard of a magnetic phenomenon that has the same "power" as a black hole....... at least i don't think i have
Yes, but I've also never heard of a group of fist-sized black holes being thrown at an orange rock skinned adventurer. Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it can't happen in comics.

Originally posted by Scoobless
he may be able to neutralize a black hole but can he do multiple ones? can he do anything if it appears inside someone?
Yep, Gravion was throwing fourteen small black holes at Thing, and Black Bolt caught them all. I don't see why he couldn't contain them inside someone. If Graviton can manipulate gravity inside someone then Black Bolt can manipulate electromagnetic fields.

Originally posted by Scoobless
any decent increase of gravity focused inside a person will collapse their body..... even if it isn't a black hole
This is all a moot point since Majestic would be burning two holes into the back of Graviton's superdense head before he even knew his opponent was moving.

Originally posted by Scoobless
all i know is Thor couldn't hurt him but the little exemplar could....... i can't explain it..... must have been a part of his power
Still, it does make thor's godforce sound a bit less impressive when a true God couldn't do what the avatar of another god could.

Originally posted by Scoobless
it will make a difference, density matters a lot when attempting to burn things....... small example.......focus sunlight through a magnifying glass and you can burn paper relatively easily, try it on a much denser substance ie. iron and it will have no effect (well maybe some, but nothing worth mentioning) Graviton's density increase is like that, he can increase his density to a factor that any laser will have as much effect as shining a torch on his skin
True. And, if this was just magnified sunlight, Majestic would be pretty ineffective. But, Majestic's laser vision is on a whole other level. With a strong enough laser cutter, you can cut diamond. With a wide angled beam of his laser vision, Majestic replaced the sun. Can you even imagine what that kind of power focused into the space of a pencil width would do?

Originally posted by Scoobless
Wonderman has taken on the entire Avengers before, as has Vision neither of them are lightweights and either would be at LEAST a match for Black Bolt....... i don't think BB can put WM down with any of his attacks and WM has far superior strength, speed and invulnerability. Vision is way to smart to slug it out with Dragon Man, but he would find a way to beat him (maybe try the phased hand through the brain trick) or set him up for a switch over with a team mate
Wonderman can still feel pain. Black Bolt owned an immortal who could fly unprotected through space with his electron blasts. BB was damn near torturing the guy. Wonderman goes down fast. And Vision has no choice but to at least dodge a Dragon Man flying at him, bent on beating him into spare parts.

Originally posted by Scoobless
if she's living electricity then she has to use the planets magnetic wavelengths to travel...... otherwise she would have no control over her movement
Wrong. During her run in the Authority, she lived and operated on a ship that was docked in the space between alternate universes. She used her full powers to kill an alien that blocked out the sun. She has shown no dependence on the Earth's magnetic field one way or the other.

Originally posted by Scoobless
i doubt he'd take time to cook up a spell in the middle of a fight like this anyway..... any delay and he's fu*ked
Yes, but in three hours of prep time he could cast a spel on his group to protect them from harmful gravitic effects. Hell, he invented and built the gauntlets he used on the black hole from scratch at superspeed. He could spend an hour of the prep time designing machines to shield his team from harmful internal and external gavitational effects and build them in the first second of the fight. That's a tactic that has been used successfully against Graviton in the past, using technology derived from Machine Man's flight capabilities.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Graviton can "feel" everything on the planet and has travelled at near light speed, i'm sure he'd be aware of impacts on his shield as soon as they happened
Yes, but travelling in a straight line at near light speed and having a fist fight at near light speed are two different things. In the time it would take to register the impacts and react to them, Majestic could be behind him and blasting away with laser vision.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I don't think brute strength is getting through Grav's field and his molecular density increase means a laser attack is nothing more than a day on the beach..... Maj, or anyone for that matter, will have to rely on more than sheer power to beat Grav..... he has lost before but only because of A) losing control over his own powers (which he has overcome) and B) letting his arrogance over rule his common sense...... he has learned from these lessons and wont be making the same mistakes again
Well, just look at how often Hulk has battered through various non matter fields. He's punched through a time storm, muscled his way through an energy field that was strong enough to change the orbit of a planet, and knocked down countless forcefields. All feats of sheer brute strength. Graviton can't become too dense, or I think he'd have troubles even functioning. Still, laser vision that can heat a planet > any level of density Graviton can achieve. Graviton doesn't have to make any mistakes in this fight. He is simply fighting an opponent who acts dozens of times faster than he can think, and that's nothing anyone can improve on.

Originally posted by Scoobless
with casual use of his power he held almost the entirety of earth's heroes helpless in the air along with all the major cities...... with almost all his power focused on Majestic there's no way Majestic could resist being crushed...... speed doesn't even come into it, it isn't a case of aim or line of sight, Grav only has to know what he wants stopped and it stops...... all this power focused on killing any one single man (short of skyfather) and he is going to be a dead man..... dead and small, be able to fit into puck's pocket, small
This is where we disagree. Graviton has only ever shown the ability to generate small black holes. Majestic has flown into a massive one without trouble. And, speed does come into it. Majestic can be attacking before Graviton has even realized the fight as started.

Majestic has already shown the ability to create devices that can interact with gravitational fields from scratch. Between mangnetic fields generated by Black Bolt and Majestic's inventions, Graviton's power can be rendered completely useless as an offensive weapon.

Are we allowed to vote yet?

Originally posted by Khellendros
Yep, Gravion was throwing fourteen small black holes at Thing, and Black Bolt caught them all. I don't see why he couldn't contain them inside someone. If Graviton can manipulate gravity inside someone then Black Bolt can manipulate electromagnetic fields.

Graviton is much faster, more powerful and versatile with his powers now than he ever was before..... Black Bolt is an insect to him

Originally posted by Khellendros
This is all a moot point since Majestic would be burning two holes into the back of Graviton's superdense head before he even knew his opponent was moving.

that's something i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on

Originally posted by Khellendros
Still, it does make thor's godforce sound a bit less impressive when a true God couldn't do what the avatar of another god could.

that entire story was written for the purpose of bringing juggy to the "good guys" side.....his Godforce blast killed Mangog.... who is stronger than Majestic

Originally posted by Khellendros
True. And, if this was just magnified sunlight, Majestic would be pretty ineffective. But, Majestic's laser vision is on a whole other level. With a strong enough laser cutter, you can cut diamond. With a wide angled beam of his laser vision, Majestic replaced the sun. Can you even imagine what that kind of power focused into the space of a pencil width would do?

heat a pencil?...........lol

diamonds may be "hard" but they aren't strong or resilient..... you can cut diamond with steel or break one with a hammer...... glass is "hard".........

Originally posted by Khellendros
Wonderman can still feel pain. Black Bolt owned an immortal who could fly unprotected through space with his electron blasts. BB was damn near torturing the guy. Wonderman goes down fast. And Vision has no choice but to at least dodge a Dragon Man flying at him, bent on beating him into spare parts.

"immortal who could fly unprotected through space " you list this as , i assume, an impressive description of a character...... Wonderman fits that description too, but has Avengers training for fighting and team work.... WM will know all about BB before this fight and he'll know what he could expect..... with the additional shielding from Grav that he can use as he pleases he's too much for BB who is only class 60 when maxing his powers.... if he isn't focusing his power into strength one hit will kill him and Wondy is easily good enough to manage that

Originally posted by Khellendros
Wrong. During her run in the Authority, she lived and operated on a ship that was docked in the space between alternate universes. She used her full powers to kill an alien that blocked out the sun. She has shown no dependence on the Earth's magnetic field one way or the other.

and Jolt has operated on alien planets...... she may not regularly depend on earths magnetic field but she does need A field..... when on earth she would use earths field

Originally posted by Khellendros
He could spend an hour of the prep time designing machines to shield his team from harmful internal and external gavitational effects and build them in the first second of the fight. That's a tactic that has been used successfully against Graviton in the past, using technology derived from Machine Man's flight capabilities.

that isn't possible..... the teams aren't allowed to bring extra materials into the fight......as far as i'm aware, the machine man tech only hid jolt from Grav for a while.... didn't stop his overall effect

Originally posted by Khellendros
Yes, but travelling in a straight line at near light speed and having a fist fight at near light speed are two different things. In the time it would take to register the impacts and react to them, Majestic could be behind him and blasting away with laser vision.

laser vision that would be ineffective.....

Originally posted by Khellendros
Well, just look at how often Hulk has battered through various non matter fields. He's punched through a time storm, muscled his way through an energy field that was strong enough to change the orbit of a planet, and knocked down countless forcefields. All feats of sheer brute strength. Graviton can't become too dense, or I think he'd have troubles even functioning.

the first point is irrelevant as almost all shields in the MU are different in some way........ plus the Hulk was one of the guys Grav held helpless in Thunderbolts issue 57 (got it here.... had to go check)....... also pictured are Thor, Wonderman, Iron Man, Captain Marvel, Quasar, Jean Grey (and all the X-Men) the FF, Scarlet Witch, Ghost Rider, Nova, Doop (what the hell is Doop anyway?)Namor.....etc etc........ you think a guy who can hold all these at bay can't stop one Superman knock off?

functioning while dense.....(trying not to make a bad U.S. presidential joke)..... i don't see why he'd have a problem as he has done it before and he is much more powerful now..... even if he did he could stop affecting his internal and only increase the skin density....... or his clothes...... no reason he can't flip his cape over his head if it started to burn...... but it wont as heat isn't a problem for him..... he hovered right next to the sun on purpose and was completely unharmed

Originally posted by Khellendros
This is where we disagree. Graviton has only ever shown the ability to generate small black holes. Majestic has flown into a massive one without trouble. And, speed does come into it. Majestic can be attacking before Graviton has even realized the fight as started.

against a field like this speed doesn't matter, 1 punch or a million would have about the same affect...... the field can't be broken by physical means..... all physical matter will be repulsed

Originally posted by pr1983
Are we allowed to vote yet?

others have.... i don't think there is a set point where voting begins

Team Scoob

http://www.geocities.com/newwarriorshq/micros/graviton2.gif http://www.angelfire.com/comics/ryans_marvel_world/Vision.gif http://jerome.galica.free.fr/marvel/Avengers/scarlet/Wonderman4-Perez.gif http://www.angelfire.com/comics/ryans_marvel_world/Carnage.GIF http://jerome.galica.free.fr/marvel/Spiderman/ennemis/Puma1.gif http://jerome.galica.free.fr/marvel/defenders/Hawkeye.gif http://www.geocities.com/newwarriorshq/micros/scourge.gif

Originally posted by Scoobless
Graviton is much faster, more powerful and versatile with his powers now than he ever was before..... Black Bolt is an insect to him
An insect who can counteract his powers, create antimatter bombs to take out the rest of his team, and a whisper that packs a class 80 punch.

Originally posted by Scoobless
that's something i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on
Yep, it's up to the voters to decide if a man who can keep the entire planet warm can kill one super dense man.

Originally posted by Scoobless
that entire story was written for the purpose of bringing juggy to the "good guys" side.....his Godforce blast killed Mangog.... who is stronger than Majestic
It doesn't matter why it was written, it's canon now. Mangog is stronger than Majestic? You just said Thor killed him, and no way is Thor stronger than Majestic.

Originally posted by Scoobless
heat a pencil?...........lol
No, more like lobotomize your character.

Originally posted by Scoobless
diamonds may be "hard" but they aren't strong or resilient..... you can cut diamond with steel or break one with a hammer...... glass is "hard".........
But hardness is what you get with ultra dense materials as well. No matter how hard or dense something is, it can only delay the inevitable by a few moments when exposed to lasers that approximate the heat of a sun.

Originally posted by Scoobless
"immortal who could fly unprotected through space " you list this as , i assume, an impressive description of a character...... Wonderman fits that description too, but has Avengers training for fighting and team work.... WM will know all about BB before this fight and he'll know what he could expect..... with the additional shielding from Grav that he can use as he pleases he's too much for BB who is only class 60 when maxing his powers.... if he isn't focusing his power into strength one hit will kill him and Wondy is easily good enough to manage that
If Wonderman knows all about Black Bolt, then he knows he is screwed. Black Bolt is only class 60, but he has taken shots from the Hulk without going down. Black Bolt can take heavy punches from bricks like Hulk and Gladiator, but can go toe to toe with and even defeat skilled warriors like Ronan the Accuser and stalemate Adam Warlock. Electron blasts are all it takes and Wonderman is down.

Originally posted by Scoobless
and Jolt has operated on alien planets...... she may not regularly depend on earths magnetic field but she does need A field..... when on earth she would use earths field
Well, it's a good thing Jenny isn't Jolt. Jenny does NOT need a magnetic field to operate.

Originally posted by Scoobless
that isn't possible..... the teams aren't allowed to bring extra materials into the fight......as far as i'm aware, the machine man tech only hid jolt from Grav for a while.... didn't stop his overall effect
Everything I've ready says it kept his power from effecting her. And who said bringing in extra materials? He could scratch the design into any solid surface with one invulnerable finger nail. And since they would be fighting in a city or uban area, he could simply retrieve the parts from surrounding buildings.

Originally posted by Scoobless
laser vision that would be ineffective.....
Not at full strength. And Majestic does not hold back.

Originally posted by Scoobless
the first point is irrelevant as almost all shields in the MU are different in some way........ plus the Hulk was one of the guys Grav held helpless in Thunderbolts issue 57 (got it here.... had to go check)
It's not irrelevant, because it shows that brute strength can effect energy shields in the MU. Holding the Hulk helpless? He can't fly. All he had to do was keep him from touching anything solid.

Originally posted by Scoobless
....... also pictured are Thor, Wonderman, Iron Man, Captain Marvel, Quasar, Jean Grey (and all the X-Men) the FF, Scarlet Witch, Ghost Rider, Nova, Doop (what the hell is Doop anyway?)Namor.....etc etc........ you think a guy who can hold all these at bay can't stop one Superman knock off?
Well, considering he was BEATEN by the Thunderbolts, no, I don't think he can stop this particular "Superman knock off". He was also stalemated by the Thing and Black Bolt when his powers went apesh*t and turned him into a sentient pocket universe!

Originally posted by Scoobless
functioning while dense.....(trying not to make a bad U.S. presidential joke)..... i don't see why he'd have a problem as he has done it before and he is much more powerful now.....
Actually, it is a problem. I just read the comic in which he was made as dense as a white dwarf. Guess how he was beaten? The electron field he was using to maintain a relatively human form got disrupted, causing him to collapse in on himself. If Graviton goes superdense, he is screwed, because Black Bolt can simply do the same thing. Disrupt the field that he's using to hold himself together, and he collapses once again.

Originally posted by Scoobless
against a field like this speed doesn't matter, 1 punch or a million would have about the same affect...... the field can't be broken by physical means..... all physical matter will be repulsed
If the field effects matter, matter can effect the field. It's similar to pulling two magnets with opposite charges apart. The magnetic field does resist, but with sufficient strength it can be overpowered. The same is true with Graviton's shield.

Graviton gets defeated cause the writers creates situations where he "outsmart" himself.Let me explain.He gives his enemies the chance of beating him.Like in his last battle.He block all the heroes on Earth, he was going to change the shape of the continents(and if it isn't a great feat of power, tell me what).The T-Bolts hurted him cause he let them do it.He defeate himself.He was too much overloaded of his "credo" of being a God, to turn his attention to mere mortals.
If Marvel Writers write Graviton in a smart way, considering he's also a scientist, and a good scientist, not the last of the idiots, he'll wipe out anything on his path and he probably be the ruler of Earth.
His senses exceed human rank, cause he can sense anything around himself.He can even hit a woman with a small stone in Australia while he was in the U.S.A.
Mr. Majestic can held by Graviton and then reduced to a chunk of blood and flesh, cause there's no limit to the force the old G can create.He was able to hold down Thor, Hulk and other strong guys.His force fields have blocked attacks that exceed Majestic's laser vision.GodForce Blast is one of those attacks.
Graviton has blocked attacks of some fast heroes like Jolt, Thor, and others.
Thor isn't fast as majestic?
There only slightly, rarely occasions in which Thor is showed clearly using superspeed, but he possess it.He's in the lightning speed rank.
Majestic landing blows while Thor land one or two blows?
If he can hit Superman he can hit Majestic.
Anyway, as I was assuming before, a well written Graviton, is near unbeatable.Only telepathic attacks would work on him, or Cosmic Power.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Graviton gets defeated cause the writers creates situations where he "outsmart" himself.Let me explain.He gives his enemies the chance of beating him.Like in his last battle.He block all the heroes on Earth, he was going to change the shape of the continents(and if it isn't a great feat of power, tell me what).The T-Bolts hurted him cause he let them do it.He defeate himself.He was too much overloaded of his "credo" of being a God, to turn his attention to mere mortals.
If Marvel Writers write Graviton in a smart way, considering he's also a scientist, and a good scientist, not the last of the idiots, he'll wipe out anything on his path and he probably be the ruler of Earth.
His senses exceed human rank, cause he can sense anything around himself.He can even hit a woman with a small stone in Australia while he was in the U.S.A.
Mr. Majestic can held by Graviton and then reduced to a chunk of blood and flesh, cause there's no limit to the force the old G can create.He was able to hold down Thor, Hulk and other strong guys.His force fields have blocked attacks that exceed Majestic's laser vision.GodForce Blast is one of those attacks.
Graviton has blocked attacks of some fast heroes like Jolt, Thor, and others.
Thor isn't fast as majestic?
There only slightly, rarely occasions in which Thor is showed clearly using superspeed, but he possess it.He's in the lightning speed rank.
Majestic landing blows while Thor land one or two blows?
If he can hit Superman he can hit Majestic.
Anyway, as I was assuming before, a well written Graviton, is near unbeatable.Only telepathic attacks would work on him, or Cosmic Power.


errrr...good commentary. Really.

...but it's Khell vs. Scoob.

-DM

people are free to post in these ............i think....... plenty of people posted in my last 2 battles....... and i posted in other peoples

oh no not again!

but perhaps it should be limited to actual comic history rather than adding other scenarios to the combatants, as their posts are what should be used to decide your vote

Originally posted by Scoobless
people are free to post in these ............i think....... plenty of people posted in my last 2 battles....... and i posted in other peoples

Sorry. My bad...

-DM

Originally posted by Khellendros
An insect who can counteract his powers, create antimatter bombs to take out the rest of his team, and a whisper that packs a class 80 punch.

he may possibly be able to counteract one aspect of his power but Grav has shown to be able to perform multiple tasks simultaneously, plus a class 80 hit may take out Hawkeye and Scourge but a shielded Carnage should be hurt but ok, shielded Puma could go either way and the rest would be fine....... although your team would lose both the street guys as well and the buildings would be destroyed hurting Hawksmoor badly

Originally posted by Khellendros
Yep, it's up to the voters to decide if a man who can keep the entire planet warm can kill one super dense man.

to decide if a guy who can become class 100, reshape the earth, hold all heroes helpless and slaughter a group of heroes without breaking a sweat can take out an alien in a cape....

Originally posted by Khellendros
It doesn't matter why it was written, it's canon now. Mangog is stronger than Majestic? You just said Thor killed him, and no way is Thor stronger than Majestic.

Mangog is vastly stronger than Thor or Majestic

Originally posted by Khellendros
But hardness is what you get with ultra dense materials as well. No matter how hard or dense something is, it can only delay the inevitable by a few moments when exposed to lasers that approximate the heat of a sun.

apparently wolverine survived the sun so (BS i know) but there's no way to know for sure, the laser could be refracted and reflected by the graviton shield though

Originally posted by Khellendros
If Wonderman knows all about Black Bolt, then he knows he is screwed. Black Bolt is only class 60, but he has taken shots from the Hulk without going down. Black Bolt can take heavy punches from bricks like Hulk and Gladiator, but can go toe to toe with and even defeat skilled warriors like Ronan the Accuser and stalemate Adam Warlock. Electron blasts are all it takes and Wonderman is down.

Wonderman has taken down Thor a couple of times and gone toe to toe with Hulk showing he can take more than one of his punches, no way is BB more than he can handle..... especially with additional shielding

Originally posted by Khellendros
Everything I've ready says it kept his power from effecting her. And who said bringing in extra materials? He could scratch the design into any solid surface with one invulnerable finger nail. And since they would be fighting in a city or uban area, he could simply retrieve the parts from surrounding buildings.

but he'd have no tools..... building a complicated device to block a gravity wielding opponents power without cutting his entire team off from gravity and hurling them into space is tricky, precise...... possibly impossible work...... even more so without precise tools and a computer.... especially if BB destroys all the buildings

Originally posted by Khellendros
It's not irrelevant, because it shows that brute strength can effect energy shields in the MU. Holding the Hulk helpless? He can't fly. All he had to do was keep him from touching anything solid.

he couldn't even move his arms...... everyone was held in the exact same position
and different types of energy shield work in different ways.... Moonstone can phase through Songbirds but not Gravitons

Originally posted by Khellendros
Well, considering he was BEATEN by the Thunderbolts, no, I don't think he can stop this particular "Superman knock off". He was also stalemated by the Thing and Black Bolt when his powers went apesh*t and turned him into a sentient pocket universe!

he was beaten because he let his guard down to focus on reshaping the entire planet into a specific image, the Thunderbolts even admitted they wouldn't have been able to get close to him if he didn't let them
and the Thing/Black Bolt storyline was when he had much less control

Originally posted by Khellendros
If the field effects matter, matter can effect the field. It's similar to pulling two magnets with opposite charges apart. The magnetic field does resist, but with sufficient strength it can be overpowered. The same is true with Graviton's shield.

that may or may not be true....... however no force has ever proven to break his field or hold, and that would include the combined struggles of Thor, the Hulk, Wonderman, the Thing and many other powerhouses.... Majestic is not stronger than all of them together

Originally posted by K3VIL
Graviton gets defeated cause the writers creates situations where he "outsmart" himself.Let me explain.He gives his enemies the chance of beating him.Like in his last battle.He block all the heroes on Earth, he was going to change the shape of the continents(and if it isn't a great feat of power, tell me what).The T-Bolts hurted him cause he let them do it.He defeate himself.He was too much overloaded of his "credo" of being a God, to turn his attention to mere mortals.
Yes, mere mortals who then proceeded to take him out.

Originally posted by K3VIL
If Marvel Writers write Graviton in a smart way, considering he's also a scientist, and a good scientist, not the last of the idiots, he'll wipe out anything on his path and he probably be the ruler of Earth.
His senses exceed human rank, cause he can sense anything around himself.He can even hit a woman with a small stone in Australia while he was in the U.S.A.
His senses may exceed human rank, but they send signals to a brain that is still very much human. Majestic operates at speed levels in the Flash and Superman ranks.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Mr. Majestic can held by Graviton and then reduced to a chunk of blood and flesh, cause there's no limit to the force the old G can create.He was able to hold down Thor, Hulk and other strong guys.His force fields have blocked attacks that exceed Majestic's laser vision.GodForce Blast is one of those attacks.
No, actually, Graviton CAN'T hold Majestic down, that's been my point all along. And there are limits. HE can only reach the white dwarf/black hole levels of gravitational fields when amped up somehow. And it would take those kinds of gravity fields to even slow Majestic down. Are you noticng that the storng guys you happen to be mentioning are all non-fliers? Majestic didn't punch his way into the center of the sun, he FLEW there. His flight capabilities are more than a match for anything Graviton can bring to this fight. I'm not going to argue the GodForce blast's strength in comparison to the laser vision. The fact is, visible light passes unhindered through Graviton's protective fields, which means Majestic's laser vision can get through and kill him.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Graviton has blocked attacks of some fast heroes like Jolt, Thor, and others.
From what I hear he stopped Jolt because she was electrical in nature. Thor and "others" aren't anywhere near as fast as Majestic.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Thor isn't fast as majestic?
That's what I'm saying, yes.

Originally posted by K3VIL
There only slightly, rarely occasions in which Thor is showed clearly using superspeed, but he possess it.He's in the lightning speed rank.
Majestic landing blows while Thor land one or two blows?
If he can hit Superman he can hit Majestic.
Thor is faster than peak human, no doubt. He may even possess low level DC speedster speed, but there is no way he matches Supermans TOP speeds. He hit Superman in the comic because it would have been a crappy read if Superman had speedblitzed him. Unlike Supes, Majestic does NOT hold back.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Anyway, as I was assuming before, a well written Graviton, is near unbeatable.Only telepathic attacks would work on him, or Cosmic Power.
Funny you should mention telepathic attacks. Guess what Black Bolt has doen on two (possibly three) separate occasions? Yep, used his power over all forms of electron energy to control the impulses of a brain. He's forced his crazy telepathic brother to stop ranting, walk across a jail cell, and go to sleep. He's also broken the telepathic link forged by a child psychic of considerable power. AND he cut off the connection between Mandarin and his rings. Jeez, the list of ways Graviton can be beaten just keeps growing. Graviton won't be trying to crush anything if he's passed out.

My reply to Scoobless will be in my next post.

Originally posted by Khellendros
No, actually, Graviton CAN'T hold Majestic down, that's been my point all along. And there are limits. HE can only reach the white dwarf/black hole levels of gravitational fields when amped up somehow. And it would take those kinds of gravity fields to even slow Majestic down. Are you noticng that the storng guys you happen to be mentioning are all non-fliers?.

he's held Thor and the rest of the avengers down on the ground before, so it isn't merely a matter of saying it's because they can't fly

Originally posted by Khellendros
From what I hear he stopped Jolt because she was electrical in nature. B]

Jolt actually got a hit in before that, but it did nothing to him

Originally posted by Khellendros
Funny you should mention telepathic attacks. Guess what Black Bolt has doen on two (possibly three) separate occasions? Yep, used his power over all forms of electron energy to control the impulses of a brain. He's forced his crazy telepathic brother to stop ranting, walk across a jail cell, and go to sleep. He's also broken the telepathic link forged by a child psychic of considerable power. AND he cut off the connection between Mandarin and his rings. Jeez, the list of ways Graviton can be beaten just keeps growing. Graviton won't be trying to crush anything if he's passed out.

and Black Bolt wont be doing anything after Wonderman crushes his skull

Originally posted by Scoobless
he may possibly be able to counteract one aspect of his power but Grav has shown to be able to perform multiple tasks simultaneously, plus a class 80 hit may take out Hawkeye and Scourge but a shielded Carnage should be hurt but ok, shielded Puma could go either way and the rest would be fine....... although your team would lose both the street guys as well and the buildings would be destroyed hurting Hawksmoor badly
Actually, Bolt's scream only destroys everything around him when he's screaming into open space. Whenever he gets close to powerhouses like Hulk and Gladiator and whispers, they absorb the full brunt of the scream. BB can hold Wonderman still with a containment field and whisper right into his ear.

Originally posted by Scoobless
to decide if a guy who can become class 100, reshape the earth, hold all heroes helpless and slaughter a group of heroes without breaking a sweat can take out an alien in a cape....
An alien in a cape who is close to Pre-Crisis Supes strength levels, yes.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Mangog is vastly stronger than Thor or Majestic
Let's just agree to disagree on this one.

Originally posted by Scoobless
apparently wolverine survived the sun so (BS i know) but there's no way to know for sure, the laser could be refracted and reflected by the graviton shield though
Actually, his skeleton survived being NEAR the sun, and Phoenix basically remade him around the adamantium. It can't be refracted if Graviton doesn't even know it's coming.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Wonderman has taken down Thor a couple of times and gone toe to toe with Hulk showing he can take more than one of his punches, no way is BB more than he can handle..... especially with additional shielding
You'll never see me argue that Black Bolt can't hang with other bricks on strength alone, but he doesn't need to. Between his vast electron powers, matter manipulation and scream, I could have made a decent case for him as my everyman. With all his other powers intact and still having access to whispers, he is more than enough of a match for Wonderman. BB has gone toe to toe with Thor, stood toe to toe and knocked out Gladiator and has made Hulk his woman every time they have fought.

Originally posted by Scoobless
but he'd have no tools..... building a complicated device to block a gravity wielding opponents power without cutting his entire team off from gravity and hurling them into space is tricky, precise...... possibly impossible work...... even more so without precise tools and a computer.... especially if BB destroys all the buildings
He has superstrength, superspeed, and the finest cutting/welding tool ever seen. He reporgrammed Eradicator, the living kryptonian weapon, simply by using flashes of laser vision. He actually made Eradicator BETTER. And see my first paragraph for why BB wouldn't even harm the buildings.

Originally posted by Scoobless
he couldn't even move his arms...... everyone was held in the exact same position
and different types of energy shield work in different ways.... Moonstone can phase through Songbirds but not Gravitons
See my analogy using magnetic fields for why Majestic can break through the shield.

Originally posted by Scoobless
he was beaten because he let his guard down to focus on reshaping the entire planet into a specific image, the Thunderbolts even admitted they wouldn't have been able to get close to him if he didn't let them
and the Thing/Black Bolt storyline was when he had much less control
EXACTLY(in reference to the italicized bit)! Graviton, at normal power level, had to concentrate to rearrange one single planet! Majestic has rearranged the entire solar system. Majestic is one very large step above Graviton in terms of power.

Originally posted by Scoobless
that may or may not be true....... however no force has ever proven to break his field or hold, and that would include the combined struggles of Thor, the Hulk, Wonderman, the Thing and many other powerhouses.... Majestic is not stronger than all of them together
Graviton has never faced a force that can move planets. He has to focus utterly on simply moving continents. Physically, he may not be able to lift more weight that all of those bricks combined, but none of them can duplicate the feats Majestic has performed using his flight power in conjunction with his strength.

this is the only bio i found on Mangog..... he is stronger than Maj though

http://www.immortalthor.net/bio-mangog.html

Originally posted by Scoobless
he's held Thor and the rest of the avengers down on the ground before, so it isn't merely a matter of saying it's because they can't fly
Oh, they can fly, but not with the force that can move planets.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Jolt actually got a hit in before that, but it did nothing to him
Yes, but he was protected by his forcefield, right? We're talking about speed, and with someone who is as vulnerable to Graviton as Jolt, speed is meaningless.

Originally posted by Scoobless
and Black Bolt wont be doing anything after Wonderman crushes his skull
Wonderman won't be crushing his skull when he's getting knocked unconscious by multiple electron blasts.

Khellandros (who earned my vote, BTW) pointed out that EM is stronger than gravity. Yes, in the technical sense that electromagnetism as a FORCE is almost infinitely stronger. All the atoms in a magnet will exert no detectable gravitional force, yet you can see unaided the results of their electromagnetic force.

However, EM doesn't occur in the quantities gravity does. Gravity is the most present, if one of the weakest, universal forces.

Then again, since this isn't "Gravity vs. EM" but "Black Bolt v. Graviton"... I'd daresay that Black Bolt's variety of skills and intense experience would let him at least hold off Graviton's singularity abilities.

By the way: Making a black hole would produce enough chaos factors to kill almost everybody else on the field (save Jenny, probably). For example: Black holes generate masers, essentially microwave lasers. So if Graviton wants ANY kind of human shield or distracting force, he has to be a lot more careful about his powers than Majestic does (not that Majestic gets a free ride in this regard).

Originally posted by Khellendros
Oh, they can fly, but not with the force that can move planets.

Thor couldn't move at all and Graviton wasn't even remotely straining himself..... it'll hold down Majestic

Originally posted by Khellendros
Yes, but he was protected by his forcefield, right? We're talking about speed, and with someone who is as vulnerable to Graviton as Jolt, speed is meaningless.

actually he never bothered with the force field at that point as he was so overconfident that he didn't see anyone as any kind of threat to him

Originally posted by Khellendros
Wonderman won't be crushing his skull when he's getting knocked unconscious by multiple electron blasts.

you seem to have Black Bolt defending against both Wonderman and Graviton at the same time....... he isn't capable of that with his scream/whisper powers limited the way they are

Originally posted by Scoobless
Thor couldn't move at all and Graviton wasn't even remotely straining himself..... it'll hold down Majestic
No, because Thor simply has great physical strength. Whereas Majestic has even greater physical strength and an exceptionally powerful flight capabilities.

Originally posted by Scoobless
actually he never bothered with the force field at that point as he was so overconfident that he didn't see anyone as any kind of threat to him
lol
Kinda makes me think he'll be underestimating Majestic, then. Why even have a shield up at all, if he thinks he's such a badass?

Originally posted by Scoobless
you seem to have Black Bolt defending against both Wonderman and Graviton at the same time....... he isn't capable of that with his scream/whisper powers limited the way they are
No, I have Wonderman getting knocked out in moments freeing black Bolt to take on Graviton or Vision. His scream powers are indeed limited, but his other electron abilities, the main reason I picked Black Bolt, are still at full power.

i just put up a Dragon Man V's Vision thread as i don't know how either of them will beat the other..... hopefully someone can offer me some help there......... lol

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t332353.html

Originally posted by Scoobless
i just put up a Dragon Man V's Vision thread as i don't know how either of them will beat the other..... hopefully someone can offer me some help there......... lol

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t332353.html
heheheh Yeah, I saw.

Good fights so far.

Is Graviton's shield totally environmental? Can it stop attacks as varied as sound, manipulated electrons, ordinary light, etc.? I think that Graviton's shield is just getting pierced, surpassed and blown to bits in this fight.

Gravitons shield has never been succesfully penetrated by the Avengers, including Thor's Godforce blast, the Thunderbolts, which features Songbird who uses sound as her weapon or the Redeemers....... i'm not sure who else has tried

Originally posted by ArekExcelsior2
Is Graviton's shield totally environmental? Can it stop attacks as varied as sound, manipulated electrons, ordinary light, etc.? I think that Graviton's shield is just getting pierced, surpassed and blown to bits in this fight.
It doesn't block ordinary light. It doesn't SEEM to block sound, since he doesn't go deaf inside of the shield, but who knows.

In this case, it matters since Black Bolt can do pseudo-psychic abilities by controlling nerves/electron flows, apparently. A full on mental stun or VX-like effect would pretty much end it.

as far as i'm aware Black Bolt still has to breath, create a vacuum around the area and he wont be doing anything

Originally posted by Scoobless
as far as i'm aware Black Bolt still has to breath, create a vacuum around the area and he wont be doing anything
He's flown into space, fought in space, and was inside a space ship after a man-sized hole had just been blown through it's hull. Exposing him to a vacuum is not a guaranteed win by any means.

how did he survive in space? how long was he out of the atmosphere?

also if he flew into space he would have been prepared for it........ not like suddenly finding yourself without air while on the ground

Originally posted by Scoobless
how did he survive in space? how long was he out of the atmosphere?
Well, eh was visibly surrounded by a forcefield. When he flew out he was just in space long enough to stop a suped-up solar flare that Graviton was dragging towards earth. He fought Adam Warlock in space, no telling how long THAT lasted.

Originally posted by Scoobless
also if he flew into space he would have been prepared for it........ not like suddenly finding yourself without air while on the ground
But any battle against Wonderman or Vision would already require the use of some kind of shield, so at most he would only need to strengthen said shield until it could protect him fully against the vacuum.

Originally posted by Khellendros
But any battle against Wonderman or Vision would already require the use of some kind of shield, so at most he would only need to strengthen said shield until it could protect him fully against the vacuum.

but he'd be under extreme pressure to not drop the field....... one slip and he's dead, also the air wont last long inside it ...... all that and he's got a reinforced Wonderman to deal with ....... how much energy can he afford to expend in an attack when he has to keep his shield at full to survive a vacuum and a guy with that much power?. the more energy he expends the more oxygen he'll be using up........

Originally posted by Scoobless
but he'd be under extreme pressure to not drop the field....... one slip and he's dead, also the air wont last long inside it ...... all that and he's got a reinforced Wonderman to deal with ....... how much energy can he afford to expend in an attack when he has to keep his shield at full to survive a vacuum and a guy with that much power?. the more energy he expends the more oxygen he'll be using up........
Well, for one thing he can obviously hold his breath for long periods of time. The one time his forcefield was visible in space, it was skintight. Another thing is that Wonderman is going down within seconds. He has nerves that still feel pain, which means BB can knock him out pretty quickly.

BB wont get near his nerves with the extra shielding...... plus i don't think he could knock him out quickly, WM has extremely fast reaction and movement speed..... BB wont be hitting any nerve points

Scoob, you assume that a gravity shield is going to block out electron control. I see no reason why that would be the case.

Originally posted by Scoobless
BB wont get near his nerves with the extra shielding...... plus i don't think he could knock him out quickly, WM has extremely fast reaction and movement speed..... BB wont be hitting any nerve points
All Black Bolt needs to do is disrupt the parts of his brain controlling the gravity powers and voila, no more gravity shield. Then it's one big ass electron blast after another till Wonderman is down. I'm not talking about pinching select nerves, I'm talking about delivering huge shocks to his nervous system.

Originally posted by ArekExcelsior2
Scoob, you assume that a gravity shield is going to block out electron control. I see no reason why that would be the case.

i'm assuming :

between Black Bolt attempting to survive in a vacuum while also being under assault from a reinforced Wonderman or Vision....... or a tag team switch over combo of the 2..... AND having the Gravity around him increased and also possibly having to deal with an arrow or two that hawkeye could give to either before the fight ........
........That Black Bolt would have more immediate concerns than worrying about a shield he may or may not be useful against

Originally posted by Scoobless
i'm assuming :

between Black Bolt attempting to survive in a vacuum while also being under assault from a reinforced Wonderman or Vision....... or a tag team switch over combo of the 2..... AND having the Gravity around him increased and also possibly having to deal with an arrow or two that hawkeye could give to either before the fight ........
........That Black Bolt would have more immediate concerns than worrying about a shield he may or may not be useful against
There's no "attempting" to survive in a vacuum. He does it easily. Wonder Man or Vision are going to be busy trying not to get demolished by Dragon Man, so there will be no tag teaming Black Bolt. Black Bolt flies partially by producing anti-gravitons, so increased gravity isn't going to be a problem. Black Bolt has shown the ability to fly, protect himself with a forcefield and still fight with perfect effectiveness.
One time, when he was hallucinating, seeing enemies instead of the faces of friends, he took out Medusa, Karnak and Gorgon, knocked the Human Torch out and sent Namor flying through the air and through a large hydroelectric dam with one punch. He can draw on enough energy to power the entire city of Attilan for years. He could probably give Graviton himself a run for his money. Wonderman and Vision are not walking away from a conflict with Black Bolt.

Originally posted by Khellendros
There's no "attempting" to survive in a vacuum. He does it easily. Wonder Man or Vision are going to be busy trying not to get demolished by Dragon Man, so there will be no tag teaming Black Bolt. Black Bolt flies partially by producing anti-gravitons, so increased gravity isn't going to be a problem.

actually Graviton controls gravitons and anti gravitons..... he could totally mess up BB's flight

Dragon Man is one of the slowest flyers ever (30mph) Wonderman could slam him at mach speeds and shove him miles away, break off, come back then he and Vision double team BB....... DM would take quite a while to get back at top speed

Originally posted by Scoobless
actually Graviton controls gravitons and anti gravitons..... he could totally mess up BB's flight

Dragon Man is one of the slowest flyers ever (30mph) Wonderman could slam him at mach speeds and shove him miles away, break off, come back then he and Vision double team BB....... DM would take quite a while to get back at top speed
Graviton won't be messing up anyone's flight when he's getting a alser lobotomy. And if Wonderman slams into Dragon Man, that leaves BB just enough time to hit Vision with an antimatter bomb.

Who eliminated me?

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Who eliminated me?
Hell if I know, I was under the impression you'd won before this thread.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
Who eliminated me?

tell me who was on your team and who you were fighting, i think this was the original set up

Originally posted by Scoobless
For first round match-ups

the first rounds were:

1. Crazyspinz vs. Scoobless - Scoobless

2. Darkcrawler vs. Scarlet Spider - Darkcrawler

3. Khellendros vs. Quick Freeze - Khellendros

4. Krissy Von Doom vs. Norrin Radd - Krissy

5. The Mighty Thor vs. Nataku - i think Nataku got a walkover due to a no-show

Originally posted by Khellendros
Graviton won't be messing up anyone's flight when he's getting a alser lobotomy. And if Wonderman slams into Dragon Man, that leaves BB just enough time to hit Vision with an antimatter bomb.

while WM is getting DM out the way Vision could simply wait for WM to get back while phased into the ground............ or wherever

just a question...how long do these usually run before a winner is determined? It's a good battle, but you guys must be getting tired.

-DM

Well, it's tied up now, so next vote breaks that, and ends the match.

To Krissy: Honestly, I'm unorganized as hell, and should never have thought about doing this, I'll try to find all the links to the previous matches and find out if you're still in it, or where you were beaten or whatnot.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
just a question...how long do these usually run before a winner is determined? It's a good battle, but you guys must be getting tired.

-DM
Yeah, but I think my battle with QuickFreeze went longer. And I know it had more pages. Anyways.

Originally posted by Scoobless
while WM is getting DM out the way Vision could simply wait for WM to get back while phased into the ground............ or wherever
See, you keep switching it up on me. First WM is taking on Black Bolt, then it's Vision, then its a tag team. Either way, BB can take either of them down one on one in moments and could take them both after a decent tussle. If Vision phases into the ground, then that leaves BB to stop Wonderman from ever touching Dragon Man.

Originally posted by Khellendros
YSee, you keep switching it up on me. First WM is taking on Black Bolt, then it's Vision, then its a tag team. Either way, BB can take either of them down one on one in moments and could take them both after a decent tussle. If Vision phases into the ground, then that leaves BB to stop Wonderman from ever touching Dragon Man.

yeah, i sorta switched from one scenario to another to counter whatever you were saying without explanation ...... ....... sorry

ok if Vision is paired off with Black Bolt he'll attack with microwave and infrared blasts when phased (these reach around 30,000 degrees Fahrenheit) keeping himself at a distance while Wm pushes DM away from the action and then returns to help

if Wonderman is paired with BB then he rushes him forcing him to guard with his shield (if he gets it up in time) while vision sets up DM for the switch as per my earlier scenario (where Vision gets DM into position by forcing him to attack a phased opponent.... Vision's speed is improved by Graviton giving him additional flight capabilities, so the phased rush will be enough to confuse Dragon Man so that he can pass through him and blindside BB with a phased hand attack

during either of these Grav will have created a surrounding vacuum as neither of my guys need to breath ....... which would take away DM's flame breath and cause BB to use a lot of power constantly for his shield weakening his offence

either way DM is too stupid to beat or damage Vision and too big, slow and stupid to beat Wonderman.... which gives them plenty of chances to double team and beat Black Bolt...... and keeps Black Bolts attention focused away from Graviton

Oh well, you got the tiebreaking vote. Good luck in the next round man.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Well, it's tied up now, so next vote breaks that, and ends the match.

To Krissy: Honestly, I'm unorganized as hell, and should never have thought about doing this, I'll try to find all the links to the previous matches and find out if you're still in it, or where you were beaten or whatnot.

lol........ this was one of the first things i saw when i joined up........ i thought it was a regular organised tournament...... not that just anyone could start one

Originally posted by Khellendros
Oh well, you got the tiebreaking vote. Good luck in the next round man.

tx man, this was a hell of a close match and i hadn't even heard of half your team before it: Mr Majestic, Sparks, Hawksmoor...... i vaguely knew who Midnighter was..... that kind of through me but at least it showed me new characters....... i might start reading authority (tell me that's where they're from or i'm gonna look stupid......lol)

Originally posted by Scoobless
tx man, this was a hell of a close match and i hadn't even heard of half your team before it: Mr Majestic, Sparks, Hawksmoor...... i vaguely knew who Midnighter was..... that kind of through me but at least it showed me new characters....... i might start reading authority (tell me that's where they're from or i'm gonna look stupid......lol)
LOL Yes, that's where Sparks Hawksmoor and Midnighter are from. Majestic is from Wildstorm too, but not the same book. The Authority isn't so great altely, but volume one was superb IMO.

Well, uhh, thanks to whoever tied up the votes again. Just a little too late though.

r u guys done with this?

yeah, this round is finished........ ask Scarlet Spider about what happens next as there was a little prob with the numbers

Yeah, I don't know what happened. This one is over, but I need to find who was left out, I resigned myself from the losers bracket just to even it up after MightyThor was a no-show. Does anyone still care? Does anyone have the facts as to what needs to be done to set it right? Would someone with organizational skills like to take over?

you said i would go up against natuku to decide who fights scoobless, but im kinda not interested. . . so either scoobes is the winner, natuku fights scoobes, or scarlet spider fight natuku to decide who fights scoobes

let me know when you want this closed... we have tournaments waiting... smoke

well, i don't mind being declared CHAMPION AND GRAND PUBAH OF KMC!!!.......

cheers

i can fight you, i think my tema can beat yours

didn't you already lose to Krissy Von Doom?

Unless anyone has any objections, you guys wanna just call this over?

I object. Or, well, I farted at least...

doorknob

i have no objection..... lol .......what a surprise there, eh guys?.......

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Oh crap. Right, then. I'll have a losers bracket, Quick Freeze and Norrin Radd can fight again, the winner of that will fight Nataku.



here it is, i was supposed to fight quick freeze

congrats to the winner!

closing--