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You would have only seen this part if you saw The Two Towers during the Battle of Helm's Deep. But who remembers this scene? Like it, not like it, what? Were any of you affected by it in any way? I hated it and loved it (Haldir died, but it has been etched into my mind forever sinceweep...). I was, but that's probably just me, as always... The music and the visuals were both equal in captivating me. It seemed like, as he was dying, the way the camera was and the way he looked at the dead elves made it seem like he finally had understood death... It's very difficult for elves to understand it, as they have never had any experience with it. That was especially sad when Aragorn rushed over, just in time for his dead friend to fall back on his arm. And with open eyes, no less... *shudders* To me, that's just creepy when people die like that. But I feel more pity towards them, because it's like the dead staring at the living world, ever so still, emotionlessly cold, begging for help to come back somehow... That's how that one elf looked lying on the ground. It makes them seem more innocent and it's more depressing... Well, that's just my opinion. Anyone else got one on this subject?

Hm, I have to say I didnt really like the scene... the music was great... the background (mostly one of these other dead elves on the floor) was great... the colours were great... the idea was great... but Haldir wasnt. I hated Haldir in TT and I also hated his death because it just didnt seem to fit the whole situation... I mean it was wrong that the elves even came there, but I still liked that a lot... only Haldir was so wrong...

Hhhmm...I thought the scene was great. I liked that the Elves were in Helm's Deep though it totally deviate from the book, but I thought it was cool. Haldir was alright. I was touched by the scene because I know who he is, but sadly, those other people with me in the theater didn't remember who he was in FOTR so the impact was kinda not touching to them. That's just my regret.

Hated it.

Please tell us why. There must be a reason. I would have felt the same no matter WHAT character it was, though. Unless it was one of my faves. I wish I could remember the music by heart so I could play it in my head all day...

I hated it because, it just wasn't supposed to happen and was sad. I think elves almost never close their eyes...

It seemed...to be a death that wasn't all that heroically done....

I mean Gandalf's death was heroic, Boromir's death was heroic. Denethor's death...uh...well....his death was just cool, but Haldir's death didn't seem to ...fit.

I agree with that. It was like..just an accident? It's like he kinda lost his presence of mind and focus on the fighting because he was ordering the other Elves to retreat, and he didn't notice that an Uruk was behind him. I agree that his death alone (focus on the "death" only part) wasn't really heroic but his initial intentions were. Saving Rohan and all. At first, it NEVER came to me that he was gonna die, so I was kinda shocked when he was slashed by that Uruk. But for the reactions to sudden and unexpected scenes, people either love it or hate it, some hated it, but I personally loved it. (And I think it's kinda good because I don't have to bear anymore nitpicks around the movie) I don't know..for some reason, I liked that scene. Heck, I love ALL death scenes so I think you know where I'm coming from.

I forgot, whos Haldir? Can someone show me a pic of him/her?

Haldir at Helm's Deep

Being slashed by an Uruk

thanks man! i do agree that the music was cool at that scene. it was kinda kool the way everything was silenced... except for a distant, echo-like sound....

No prob.

I love the music also. It was heart-wrenching. You can really feel that not all good guys win without bearing any losses. Fair fight..and realistic, IMO.

indeed, very same opinion here.

Yes, the music was spectacular and tragic. If that music was different, it wouldn't have NEARLY the momentum it does. But I don't think he lost his focus there. All top "officials" in a battle have to do that to some extent. I think he tried to get away, but then he was stabbed by the Uruk-Hai. He paused a moment in excruciating pain (I've always wanted to say that ), and then attempted to escape. He was at an angle where he would turn around, but not enough so that he could see the Uruk-Hai. The angle isn't really made clear, though. Did the same one hit him both times? Stupid Uruk-Hai. KILL THEM! KILL THEM ALL! But no matter how heroic it was, it was still sad nonetheless. Such fitting music... :_(

You have your opinion about it, but I personally would still say that he kinda lost his focus. From the way I perceived how the scene went by, he was calling all the other Elves to retreat, then he got "carried away" (for lack of a better word) and kinda forgot about the Uruks behind him, and before he knew it, he was slashed already by that Uruk. And by knowing that, it's enough for me to consider that he indeed lost his focus, whether it was his responsibility to call the other Elves or not.

And, I don't have my DVD handy right now but from how I remember the scene went, it was the same Uruk who slashed him twice. It just would make sense. Then again, maybe I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

No idea, but maybe one thought he had killed him but was wrong. He looked so innocent, running away as that big tall Uruk-Hai just lifted his sword calmly and slowly, and brought it down... A futile attampt to escape... So sad... Hm. lol My sister and dad need to shut up when I'm/we're watching that movie. No matter how quiet they try to whisper, they're "S"s always sound like "SSSS!!!!!" I hate it! Do you talk this much in a movie theater? Why do you think they have rules regarding talking during a movie? It's no different at home! Yes, I told that to them. We got into a little argument, and of course in the end, they could not defend themselves. HA! Foolish mortals! You could never stand up to the wit of an elf! Uhmmm, yeeaah... Anywho, I also annoyed them be rewinding the DVD every time they talked. If it bothers you so much, don't talk! You KNOW I don't want to hear your voices when it's playing! Well, just a little gripe I have.

Haldir dying - very sad. Bawled my eyes out, like usual (but hey, there's never a movie i DONT cry in!)
it was a really sad scene. He was so concerned for every1 else, he put himself last and the survival of al the other Elves first. (woa that sounds really dramatic!)
Hey in the battle, why is it all the Elves that die and men still survive. Arent Elves supposed 2 be fab fighters. I know they werent even meant to be there, but still. They shoulda been better.

*silence from the crowd and audience*

Ok fine, well i thought so!!

Yeah, and that should make all the Tolkien purists happy. Well, you know the elves weren't "supposed" to be there, which was totally up to the director and had every right and reason to do, but it might make it easier for you to know that EVERY LAST ELF THERE DIED!!! Made me cry too, the second time I saw it and some other times I think, because I believe I missed it the first time.

I'm not sure if they all died because when they all retreated, I saw some Elves made it inside, so there should be some who survived, but when they rode out again, I didn't see any single Elf there.

Anyway, supposing that they all died, I think it's not too impossible, after all, it's not like there were thousands of Elves who came, there were just like hundreds of them, and some were killed from the explosion courtesy of that "Olympic Uruk-Hai", so..yeah..


LOL..I suppose we should just let the Men have their glory right now. The First Age and some of the Second Age were the Elves' time, and the Third and Fourth and so on were the Men's..and..the Elves are better fighters during the First Age, probably they lost some of their "greatness" in battle in the Third Age. Shame that Feanor, Fingolfin, Finrod, Fingon, Maedhros, etc. weren't there, eh?

"Olympic Uruk'Hai..." Ha ha! I liked all those arrows in that fight. I think it would be more boring without the elves. All those hundreds of arrows flying all over the place made the battleground seem more... "Alive"... Unsettled... More active, know what I mean? Ninja Elves! Now THAT would be a sight to see! Or Zorro Elves...!

That was one of the reasons why I thought it was cool that they were there. I actually thought the Battle of Helm's Deep in the book was quite boring, but that's just me.

Originally posted by shadowy_blue
Anyway, supposing that they all died, I think it's not too impossible, after all, it's not like there were thousands of Elves who came, there were just like hundreds of them, and some were killed from the explosion courtesy of that "Olympic Uruk-Hai", so..yeah..
QUOTE]

Hey Shadowy have u seen that spoof of that moment, the one where it says 'and bringing in the torch for the 2056 helms deep Olympics games is random Uruk-Hai #5671' or something? I should find a pic of it.
*disappears to look for one* its hilarious!
the scene wasnt even that long in the book, i think *forehead creases in rememberance* but in the movie, PJ made it about 24minutes, i think.

LOL..I would like to see that.

And what's about 24 minutes? LOL..I don't get it.

the battle was 24 minutes

all the elves did die

when they were in the keep, fighting with aragorn, and gimli and the uruks poured in....and aragorn shouted retreat...they just didnt...and were all killed

thats depressing

Yeah, I also assume that they were all dead at the end but what's up with still showing us that some of them made it to the Keep yet none of them went out alive?

How can you tell the difference between an Elf and a human in a glance? They don't look that different... The arrows maybe, but still...

and the armour and head pieces - they were different.

Yeah, but it's all so dark... It's a little hard to see... Oh well. I just didn't think anyone would actually be paying attention to that kind of detail. Go figure.

*shrugs* i guess its just me. I think i have the LotR movies burnt into my brain ive seen them so many times b4!!!

Maybe it's just me..but I thought it was kinda easy to distinguish an Elf from a Rohir may it be dark or no..(and it wasn't very dark anyway) both races have their own special "Its" that makes it easy for some people to determine them, aside from their differences in armor, hair, helm, etc.

i didnt like the scene b/c it didnt stick to the book

Haldir's death was neither necessary nor motivated enough to warrant any emotions at all...elves at Helm's Deep seemed somewhat of an anomoly since it was not in the book. I understand that this was a movie, but it did little to add to the scene.

quite true, its weird to show that they did turn up...

it was more in the movie to show that the elves are not totally abandoning men in the fight against sauron, little did they know that lorien was going to beunder attack

I agree. And even in Lake Town they were under attack. Where King Bard and King Dain were slain in that battle. And the woodland realm of Legolas' father saw battle as well. While in Theoden King did think the world of men had no friends such as Aragorn did, the allience was still there.

Offtopic yet again,

notice how these old topics get "bumped" and then go immediatly off topic

Haldir wasnt much of a tragic death, in the film he should of listened to aragorn and left without sticking around to add a ew more orcs to the death list....

*yawn*

^go to bed.

It was lame that to have survive so long in the fight, yet the moment Aragorn yells for them to retreat back to the keep, he is wounded with lamest attack by one orc, looks at his blood in astonishment, like he can't believe he's been wounded, then doesn't think about anything else so he's wide open for an attack from the rear.

stop mocking the death scene!

well he got a scimitar down the back he was going to die anyway so why bother about behind you

I mock neither his death nor the death scene. And it was not a scimitar but an Uruk-Hai sword. His first wound was not fatal, painful but not fatal.

an urak sword is a scimitar.


and stop trying to correct everyone it's pissing me off.

Having a contradictory point of view is not correcting anyone. If you feel that way then in all probability your information is incorrect. A scimitar an elegantly curved sword whereas an Uruk sword is not. No where does it say in the book or in the movie that the swords were labeled thus.

no you are trying to correct everyone and it's pissing people off just accept it.


Thor out

The point of this thread was to disseminate information that may be of interest to everyone. Whether one persons' points differ from another on Haldir's death shouldn't be a cause for someone to be angry. If you and others feel angry at my point then I do not apologize for having my points differ from yours. Showing anger is showing a lack of understanding or knowledge.

no it's not your point im dissagreeing with it's valid it's the fact that you are commenting on little things in other peoples posts that matter not.

well yah know Thor...the guy is after all...*gets cut off*

^^

na Thor man you should take an easy, but I do think the guy is trying to show of the knowledge a little too quickly

I like knowledgable types on this here forum

Hmm does that count u out mate?

i just think that scene is sad ... not sad as in cheesy but crying sad ... and no i didn't cry at it

i was well p'ed off when i seen him die lol i quite liked Haldir in the books, but it was a very good scene and i wouldn't take it out, even if it isn't in the books.

i thought the scene was done really well to ..

Discos - blech

you opened yourself up for that discos

mech I dont need to argue how my knowledge vastly exceeds a fair number of people on this forum.

I dont brag about it, but throw in my 2-cent every "now and again"

"am so smart.....so smarter than you....Hibert" - comic book guy

anyways, Haldirs death sounded better in the books,

It definitely did
Because it didn't exist in the book ... and anything is better than Haldir's death

meh, I would rather see the battle of Lorien as well in which Haldir protects

a conundrum Arroch???

^ agreed

a what what

conundrum: a difficult problem

I know what it is I am wondering how it is a difficult problem to film Haldir's death...

Until i truly studied LOTR (after seeing ROTK and starting my obsession) I didnt really think Haldir dying was all that sad, but the last time i watched TTT i about died crying. The same with Boromir in FOTR

why didnt you cry when Madril died, or a gondor soldier, or a couple of stable boys at helms deep

i thought that bit was sad when they were taking them to prepare for the battle... but funny when that old geeza shot that urak which started the battle of

That "old geeza" was called Aldor

I think the saddest death in TT was of this elf we never saw alive... he was lying dead in the background... probably nobody noticed him... he looked SO sad cry I mean, maybe he had a family at home, waiting for him to come back... and nobody will be able to tell them that he is dead because nobody saw him dying...

cry


Haldir, yergh, he's just stupid

i don't really need to now his name i just thought it was funny

Aldor the weak...

Yes, I remember seeing that dead elf with the cold eyes that stared at nothing...his last thoughts before he died were probably:

"Lo! the hour is come when I face death. But with a noble heart I shall not die in vain. Sad will be then for those whom I love, for they will not know of my fate until it is too late."

Haldir however, and I firmly believe this; a great warrior we are led to believe yet died tragically as if he were a novice child put forth before the fray whose legs quake and his heart tremble...could they not have choreographed a better ending???

where at the two towers was this death, the book perhaps

not there...he never left lothlorien or lorien or the forest of the white lady or something like that..

am confused

i confuse myself

cry
Yea, he has such a sad expression in his face... so... empty... searching...

There's also this boy in the scene before the battle of the Hornburg starts
you can hardly see his face... but you see how afraid he is, though he tries to hide it under his masque, his helmet
He probably died and again nobody would have noticed it


Haldir's death was so - unnecessary and rather wrong-placed I think


Didn't we already have exactly the same one page ago

-

it was...in your words wrong placed...

i don't even think he died in the book...all that we know is that he saw the fellowship off on their little boats...

*goes off to look for the boy*

was it the one who calls himself Haleth son of Hama??

yes it is him...haleth that is...

Ok then it's the wrong photo
The one I mean does have some similarities with Haleth but it isn't him, he is never named, you don't even see his face


... evil Exa offtopic

and yet again...you have proven only that you are human....

i think the music in that death scene is rather emotional makes it more morbid

when we first see Haldir walking up at Helms Deep and Theoden says something like "what is this?" - Haldir is walking like he is "the elf"

I am sure he must of died in Lorien, no way would Jackson make the mistake of doing it if he didn't in Lorien

Discos - yet another mis-matched mistake from the books

an idea, they had many of those

yeah i was affected because i thought it was gay!
Haldir was a champ and he had cool armour and they made hime die.

i miss read wat u sed i thought it read camp ... lol

gay?

Discos - christ not this again

thats wat i thought it sed but i was rong it sed champ

my mistake

Discos - offtopic

sorry ....

anyways,

do you think maybe (in the film) Aragorn could have been held responsible for Hadlri's death. Haldir was on the wall and doing not to bad slayings and Aragorn shouted on him distracting him

Also, do ya think maybe (In ROTK) when Theoden says "hail the victorious dead" that Aragorn as a pause before drinking to remember Haldir?

yeah i also noticed that haldir got attaked soon afta aragorn shouted him which obviously distracted him ??? Is aragorn to blame for this heroes death ... hmmm

meh, I probably say not.

If I can remember correctly I think Haldir killed another orc right after Aragorn shouted on him,

he killed 0one in the process of aragorn shouting him straight afta that he gets attked himself ??? i think its been a day or two since i have watxched it

its been a week and 1 day since I watched it, not that its imortant,

a Urik stabbed him in the back, looked quite soar. But anyways he died none the less in Aragorn's hands and THAT my my lady grim is what makes it sad

Discos - good talk bud

I would not think Aragorn distracted him when he shouted to retreat back to the keep, because aftwerwards he did kill one before being wounded which led to an attack from the rear. I would not blame Aragorn for Haldir's death, quite possibly a mere seconds of hesitation is all that it would take especially in pitch battle.

i know it gets me all emtional when he sees his fellow elves dying .. i may splurt a few tears at that mo ...

He did show an emotional moment when saw the fate of his fellow elves, but I always felt that was unecessary since they cannot truly die as men. Elves always end up at the Hall of Mandos when their physical bodies die. At that moment, it seemed trivial to show Haldir's sadness at so much death of his kin. But I understand it was more of an emotional impact for the moviegoers.

true but it has an impact on how horrific the battle of helms deep actually is

Nah Aragorn didnt distract him - he merely shouted out to tell haldir to pull back to the keep. Haldir was making sure all the elves on the wall knew to pull back, then he killed an orc, then was wounded, then hit over the head coz he didnt see the uruk-hai. aragorn wasnt responsible at all *shrugs* thats my terminology

yes but if aragorn didn't shout him he might of been able to move on from the piont he was at and aviod that urak hai

your terminology is alright in my books,

it was merely a suggestion

thats wat everybodys is

I think it was sad that Haldir died. I even got the song when he died. And what is of this talk about all the elves dieing? they probaly fled to the catacombs near the end of the revine, where gimli was held up in the books but poor haldir he was my hero! now my new hero is Imrahil its always sad when an elf dies

because it is more emotional than when anything else happens ... u always seem to get sad music playing when they die which makes it worse

i have to say i liked it but when haldi died it sucked. haldi was my favorite character in the trilogy. now legalos is my favorite. the game is really cool if you beat it you can be king arogorns father. but hte game gets really hard as you go along. i know this is the movie site. did anybody see the third one?

yup me ... but i prefer TTT

In the book, Haldir did not die. I dont know why you - LegolasLuva - are so worked up about it. I was really upset, too, obviously, and cried for days ... but quite honestly, he wasnt supposed to die in the book, so you shouldn't be so hyped up about that. Is this Peter Jackson's story or JRR Tolkien's? Honestly...
And by the way ... Haldir is mine ... my own ... my precious ... so hands off.

~Veronica

dumbass

haldir's death was one of the tragical moments in the movie. If you ask me, that should not be his fate. He did not have a chance of burying into a grave like Theodred.

i thought it was very moving and added more emotions to the battle

Originally posted by Darkman87
haldir's death was one of the tragical moments in the movie. If you ask me, that should not be his fate. He did not have a chance of burying into a grave like Theodred.

true ... very true ... i honour that. Haldir did not deserve that at all...

..neither did all the other elves who fought at the coomb. If only they showed some alive at the end of TTT.

Originally posted by GCG
..neither did all the other elves who fought at the coomb. If only they showed some alive at the end of TTT.

very very true ... you have a point. There was not one single elf left at the end of the battle, which I'm sure Elves are not that weak.

They are weak at the close combat

Originally posted by Darkman87
They are weak at the close combat

so are the men.

If you talk about the unarmored men or villagers, you are right but if you talk about Gondor, i think you are mistaken. Haldir, I remember he did some pretty good moves however if you remember the time the keep exploded all elves were killed by Uruks' spears.

Originally posted by Darkman87
If you talk about the unarmored men or villagers, you are right but if you talk about Gondor, i think you are mistaken. Haldir, I remember he did some pretty good moves however if you remember the time the keep exploded all elves were killed by Uruks' spears.

haha no they were not. only one of them was impaled by a spear. they fought, yes, for a while but it was only when they were called back to the keep that they were mostly all killed because they were too concentrated on getting back to the keep, which took them off guard, and which also made them easier bate for the Uruks.

I don't get it why did they make Haldir die in the movie........he didn't die in the book so why in the movie?

And that scene did ruin the rest of the movie for me......*cries*

Just to add more depth to the story......and to give him a bigger role.

the weird thing about haldirs death is... well I can't remember him dying in the books. And the whole "elf army showing up" thing never happened in the books. And if the elves would have sent an army Haldir wouldn't lead it. He's just some kind of border guard. Not a general or commander.

Haldir didnt die in the books so mayb thats why you couldnt remeber it ??? perhaps

Originally posted by ladygrim
Haldir didnt die in the books so mayb thats why you couldnt remeber it ??? perhaps

LOL yeah ... its more of a comfort that Haldir's death didnt happen in the book, because it's tolkien's story, not pete jackson's

true .. in the end like EVERY one of them died .. not ONE was left at helm's deep, so i find that hard to believe

yeah well it freaks me out.....

unnecessery.....

yeah well the helms deep chapter in the book is not too easy to understand...

Originally posted by LegolasLuva
"Olympic Uruk'Hai..." Ha ha! I liked all those arrows in that fight. I think it would be more boring without the elves. All those hundreds of arrows flying all over the place made the battleground seem more... "Alive"... Unsettled... More active, know what I mean? Ninja Elves! Now THAT would be a sight to see! Or Zorro Elves...!
ya but it would have been cool if the director followed the book (way more ppl in rohan, no elves, gimli getting trapped in fight in caves, and erkenbrand saving the day with reinforcements)

Actually I think it would be WAY more interesting if they followed the book more. I'd rather see what I'd read in the book, not a whole changed up story...

OFF TOPIC!





The book version of the fight was rather boring to me, and sketchy. P.J. IMO had a knack for describing everything in excellent detail sexcept for the battle sceens. They always seemed so short in the books to me.

Plus, Peter jackson didn't most likely have the hardcore Lotr fans in mind when he made movies. He's trying to make a lot of money when it coems down to it, so he made the movie more appealing tot he average movie goer, taking out certain boring parts from the books and pumping up the fight scens more.

Also why he put in all that crap about Aragorn dreaming about Arwen, he P.J. was trying to put in more of a love story, because in the books Arwens actually doing something like 3 times in all the books.

Average people want to see A) Senseless violence and action. B) Some sort of deep love conenction (Thank you Titanic, you f*cker.) C) A good plot.

P.J. supplied all of that by adding in his own action stuff, the love triangle between Arwen, Aragorn, and Eowyn. And the plot was tweaked a bit to make it not so confusing.

Movie-Haldir sucked!

Well, I must say that I was touched, almost made me cry even though it devoates from the books here, I think this would be one of the only scenes that PJ made himself and that touched me.

I would also comment on PJs Loads o' crap about Arwen, I personally would have liked seeing the Rohirrims' last stand without help from Haldir's battalion, and also Seeing Glorfindel come to the rescue would have been better than Liv Tayler shouting pathetically, " No Frodo, we Mustn't"

^Err ... she never said that...

Can't edit the message but have to say, if the elves are supposed to be skilled, then I don't undestand why PJ killed them, plus, following the book would have been better, I'd like to have seen Erkenbrand rather than eomer riding, and seeing him battle on foot would have been better too.

I guess they kinda had to give Liv a bigger role. i bet she was expensive to hire. just look at the screen rolls in ROTK. she's the third name or something. and she hardly does anything in that movie.

I think thats really the one thing I can't forgive P.J for giving the saving of Frodo scene to Arwen over Glorfindel. The way it was described in the book would have looked brilliant on screen, admittedly only those who read the books would have known it was the Elven Lord Glorfindel one of the few capable of riding openly against the Nine but still. Would have been nice for the fans.

Well, have to agree with the fallen, and
@ Haldir o Lorien
Well, if you remember the scene where Arwen is riding to Imladris with Frodo, then you'd remember that when they are riding, a Nazgul extends his hand for the ring, and She says to Frod, No, we.........Blah Blah Blah.
@ Vanice
No idea about the expensive bit but it's pointless hiring her if I'm asked.

Originally posted by Hammad Ahsan
Can't edit the message but have to say, if the elves are supposed to be skilled, then I don't undestand why PJ killed them, plus, following the book would have been better, I'd like to have seen Erkenbrand rather than eomer riding, and seeing him battle on foot would have been better too.
To show more of a bond between the Men and the Elves and to add more depth into the story. Plus, it was convenient how the Galadhrim and Haldir never appeared after FotR (books) so Peter Jackson took that advantage and brought them into the second volume, as it wouldn't really change their part in the trilogy.


Originally posted by Hammad Ahsan
Well, have to agree with the fallen, and
@ Haldir o Lorien
Well, if you remember the scene where Arwen is riding to Imladris with Frodo, then you'd remember that when they are riding, a Nazgul extends his hand for the ring, and She says to Frod, No, we.........Blah Blah Blah.

Aye, I do remember that part. And I also know that she was saying "Noro lim, Asfaloth!" which means "Ride hard, Asfaloth."

i love alllllllllllllllll scenes from the lord of the rings. of course this is one of the best from the two towers (i lllllllovvvve ale passages with elves, because i love them, they look so heavenly and they have so much light...). but don't and i say DON't be sad, cause you knoW that many of the elves were send back. (exemple: glorfindel who died in a battle in silmarillion-i don't know exactly what :confused.
ps. i love the soundtrack.

Haldir's Lament
Ar sindarnoriello caita mornie,
Ar ilye tier undulave lumbule...

And grey-country-from lies darkness,
And all roads down-licked clouds...

very beautiful...

I really liked the scene and everything and think it was really well made but I just don`t get it. I mean the effects were real good and it was touchy but Haldir wasn`t such an important character that deserved that dramatic death and how come he and aragorn are so good friends, I don`t record them together as friends in any of the other movies. Can anyone please explain it to me?