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A friend of mine sent me this today - I thought it was interesting.




Thoughts?

Thoughts:

What a load of crap. I DEMAND AN APOLOGY FOR THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE!

I moved this to general discussion, I think its suited there better.

Also, before this thread sets off, can we please be civil about it - I dont want to be closing this.

^ OK, I'll be civil.

I think that this is an inappropriate and pointless request--why should the Catholic church apologize? It would be like me asking Turkey to apologize for the Armenian Genocide, which just wouldn't happen.

Well, my first reaction was that they should apologize, but as a good friend pointed out.. if this country apologizes for this war and so on, where does it end? Cant we just put the past behind us & move on?

Originally posted by FeceMan
^ OK, I'll be civil.

I think that this is an inappropriate and pointless request--why should the Catholic church apologize? It would be like me asking Turkey to apologize for the Armenian Genocide, which just wouldn't happen.

Nice

And I agree. If Pope is to apologize for crusades, I think the Europe should get an appology for Ottoman empire also, no?

If both parties apologize it might be going somewhere, but I certanly dont believe just Pope should do so.

This is stupid.

I thought the Pope already apologized some time ago

apologize for something that happened sooo long ago?

Apologize for constantinople. If I was the pope I would spit in the face of any muslim that asked for an apology.

His apology to the Jewish people was totally understandable and appropriate seeing as he was studying theology in Poland during the Nazi occupation and seen the the atrocities first hand as the Vatican at the time sat back and did nothing.

he doesn't need to make a apology for something he has no first hand knowledge of any more than I need to apologise to any African American for slavery.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Thoughts:

What a load of crap. I DEMAND AN APOLOGY FOR THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE!

im armenian

damn genocide

Originally posted by FeceMan
^ OK, I'll be civil.

I think that this is an inappropriate and pointless request--why should the Catholic church apologize? It would be like me asking Turkey to apologize for the Armenian Genocide, which just wouldn't happen.

that will never happen.

Apologizing for slavery doent bother me so much as the litigation for compensation over it. And I wouldnt have much of a problem with that either were it not so ripe for fraudulent claims....

Originally posted by KidRock
Apologize for constantinople. If I was the pope I would spit in the face of any muslim that asked for an apology. I dont think that the pope even has enough strenght to even move his lips.

Originally posted by SlipknoT
I dont think that the pope even has enough strenght to even move his lips.

It was a figure of speech, if the pope is asked for an apology he should just insult the person who asked for it.

How about an appology about the Jihad into Spain also! And an appology to the Jews on both sides for smashing Isreal into dust over the past three thousand years hysterical

Three thousand years?!

Islam wasnt around that long....

Thoughts - Get over it.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
A friend of mine sent me this today - I thought it was interesting.




Thoughts?

thoughts, I mean would it really change anything?? get over it that was centuries ago

well if the Pope were to apologise for the crusades the Muslims have to apologies for their forced expansions and attempt to expansion into Europe and other places who got this religion forced down uppon them.

This is utterly stupid request, its ike apologies for being born

Originally posted by BackFire
Thoughts - Get over it. I agree. It's a silly request.Originally posted by finti
and other places who got this religion forced down uppon them. Umm...where did you get this from exactly?

During the Spanish rule, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together. There was no forced conversion. In fact, from what I know, "forced conversions" are forbidden in Islam.

Also if you know about the Mughal rule in India, the majority were Hindus and were allowed to practice their religion freely.

Forced conversion is what the crusades were about...

Like I already said...with in the last year he already apologized in a speech.

it has occured a LOT of time ago...why don't first take care of present stuff, and moan about the past later? /sarcastic

one of the reasons i am against the church in general. It waged a war for a land that was not theirs and its current status has been determined by the atrocities it had done in its history including the inquisition 'Dark Ages'. The church had acted imposingly, and a lot of land had been shamelessly stolen.

I do believe in God but not the church that owes the credentials its so much respected for, to its 'History' of wars and reclamation of common land

Man, what horsehockey. If Islam can sanction the law of weapons as a right by any means necessary than that's a declaration of war. I personally would not apologise because the Crusades was a crusial part in human history and what was done was done out of necessity, like what Islam is doing...

most religions expand through forced expansions, its not like oh ok lets just switch from what we used to believe to the new stuff. Christianity is the worst in the class here though.
Bottom line, rulers wanted to expand their land more than they wanted to expand the word of a religion, but with their expansion followed a religion thus the forced upon them part.

Originally posted by finti
most religions expand through forced expansions, its not like oh ok lets just switch from what we used to believe to the new stuff. Christianity is the worst in the class here though.
Bottom line, rulers wanted to expand their land more than they wanted to expand the word of a religion, but with their expansion followed a religion thus the forced upon them part.

Pretty much all religions (with the exception of few, I think) were an issue in an explanation. Even the Ancients. Christianity and Islam are no different.

One thing is for sure (ok, nothing is for sure in reality but bare with me) Pope Urban II expanded 'The Truce of God' outlawing the fighting from certain days (i forget which), outlawing the fighting against monks, women and children in the War that was to do with Christians at the time (French had blood fudes, so did English), NOTHING to do with the conversion. Italy for example was at the time a collection of states, if i remember, being constantly overrun by random hordes, etc..

When the Byzantine empire started to spread, and when turks started to invade and rip Alexus' I Empire, he wrote to Pope Urban II telling him about supposed horrid acts Turks did against Christian Pilgrims and asked for help - and he got more help than he wanted. He got help from all over the place, and THUS Pope Urban II saw this as a moral thing (how can anyone consider anything to do with war moral is beyond me) to call it a Holy crusade, as the Turkish invasion, instead of being seen as an invasion for what it was - was seen as a direct attack on Christianity since Turks were commiting these horrible acts against Christians in Jerusalem - he called upon people making these super fancy speaches to reclaim the holy lands from the Muslims.
Again, its all about the land, before anything else. The crusades was little similar to Israel and Palestine - its about having control over holy land.

^^ that is how the crusades started, it was nothing to do with the direct spread of Christianity (read people, read!!) because, as I already mentioned above, all the main countries England, France and Italy had bloodshed and wars within their own lands - Italy has hordes randomly passing through, France has a royal blood feud...etc. (I forget what was wrong with England )

Again, I dont think this has much to do with ''Muslims'' per se, but with Turks. I dont get why the Muslims as general want an apology.

An apology would make everything all better and expunge any past wrongdoings.

Not.

You dont apologize for something so heinous, an apology is meaningless and insulting in instances such as these.

You learn from it and ensure that it never happens again, that would be more justly and right than a meaningless apology.

Yeah...um.. What Lil B said

who said anything about the crusades being a means to spread christianity? After all the crusades was to take back the region that was the origin of the christian faith

Since it was my post you quoted let me ask you this: Do you think christianity spread around Europe through missonary work or do you think the rulers of the various states/regions who submitteed to the christian faith deceided that what they believed the people should believe as well?

Hey,,,your back from your wizard of Oz/Pink Floyd trip..

The way I see it -

It's human nature to make war on each other so what this Muslim person is requesting is that the Pope apologise for being human the very same heinious crime that he himself is guilty of...

Yah right!

Humans in general, have always (and still do) wanted more than they already have. We also have this built in desire to want to make others toe the line to our personal way of thinking. Which is probably why we go to war in the first place. For example...

Emperor Whatsisname of MyLandIsNotEnough looks over the border of his great land to the lush green land of his neighbour 'Mmmm I fancy a bit of that, also I dont like the fact that my people are the only ones hopping on one leg for 20 minutes every morning to make the sun rise! My army is greater than theirs so I think I'll go over there and knock a few facts into those heathens.' he makes a little note in his diaryTuesday 22nd March - Invade and educate WhatIWantLand... 'They also seem to have more goldmines than we do too.' he thinks to him self as an after thought...

So off he toddles to wage war.

Sound strangley familiar to some current existing world situations?

This is a load of bullshit it happend over 500 years ago. get over it

what an accurate observation

Therfore if it was only the turks (the Ottomans) , this papal apology being demanded on behalf of all muslims is a mere pretext.

blah blah blah....let's go digging up history

Well the Romans attacked Israel too..

Its way to far back however it reminds of that every religion had a violent past. Christianity has a very bloody past and so was Islam and Hinduism and Sikhism. They are peaceful religion but you know how people were about religion back then. If they felt threatened you better watch out. blowup

giljotiini

hang

horse

rifle

sniper

tank

Originally posted by finti
what an accurate observation

Go kill yourself youll make the world a better place

yeah didnt expect you to actually come up with more than this redneck reply.