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The original Champion vs post crisis Superman.
Champion is probably a little stronger and is a better fighter, yet lacks super super speed, he is very fast nonetheless.

the guy that the Thing fought? Superman would kill him

Thats not the original COTU though, the original could rip planets in half and blow up stars.
He's been powered down immensly since the 70's.

well if that guy wasn't the original champion doesn't that mean that he beat the "champion" you are reffering to to claim the title?.... how can he rip a planet in half?........ i've been hearing a few people say Majestic can rip a star in half but i'm not sure how........ i mean he's only human size......and a star is made of gas....... HOW CAN HE RIP IT???????

no no, by original i mean not powered down. During the 70's Champ has no physical equal in all the galaxies (in marvel)....he went from each galaxy for hundreds of years fighting anyone and never losing. He beat thanos once i believe.
and i dunno exactly how they do this....makes no sense to me either.
ive seen Champ fly straight thru jupitor sized planets like they werent there.

Superman wins no matter what.

haha no, he doesnt.

Just consider Champ the Karate Kid with above superman strength and on par superman duribility.

"focus, champion-san" just doesn't sound right to me...... i bet Daniel could kick his ass.......

"wax on......wax off....... now go make my dinner bit*h!"




ps. for the record, i know that you didn't mean the film Karate Kid...... lol

hell, till a year or so ago i thought thats where he was based on....like damn....karate kid moved up!
i gotta give this to champ for his experience is 200 or so years deep.

Originally posted by long pig
hell, till a year or so ago i thought thats where he was based on....like damn....karate kid moved up!
i gotta give this to champ for his experience is 200 or so years deep.

More like 100,000 years. He is an elder.

true, didnt realize my typo.
so you think superman could handle the guy?
he is basically superman without flight and other silly stuff.
hes the best fighter in the universe

If Thing game him such a good match I think Superman would destroy him. I wonder why Juggernaut was not in the issue when Champion fought Earths powerhouses.

The Thing should not have beaten him. At the time Thing was only about class 70. Champion is much more durable because of his elder status and he has power primordial, more strength and various other powers. (power primordial is as powerful/basic as power cosmic)

Superman will be thrashed.

The Thing did not beat him. Champion beat him nearly to death with repeated blows and it did take him awhile. Juggernaut needed two hits to keep Thing down for the count. I think Superman is stronger Than Juggernaut and Superman is alot more durable and faster than Thing. Champion is in trouble kids. If Superman were a Marvel hero he would be a god in here.

read the thread 74, we've already been over the fact that the thing battle is irrelevant in this discussion

why is it irrelevant? Cause it shows proof that Superman could beat Champion.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
why is it irrelevant? Cause it shows proof that Superman could beat Champion.

it's irrelevant because, as already posted

Originally posted by long pig
Thats not the original COTU though, the original could rip planets in half and blow up stars.
He's been powered down immensly since the 70's.

the version of champ that Thing fought isn't on the same power level as the champ in THIS fight


ps. read the thread before you ask questions that have already been asked and answered

Originally posted by Scoobless
it's irrelevant because, as already posted



the version of champ that Thing fought isn't on the same power level as the champ in THIS fight


ps. read the thread before you ask questions that have already been asked and answered

Originally posted by juggernaut74


I onder if that meant that you now understand ........ or are still grappling with the obvious........

All I can say is wow. You impress me.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
All I can say is wow. You impress me.

I find it easy to impress people who lack the intelligence and patience to read and understand 1 whole page of a thread

wow you did it again.

Originally posted by long pig
Thats not the original COTU though, the original could rip planets in half and blow up stars.
He's been powered down immensly since the 70's. You see I dont understand what you are talking about. The Champion made his first appearance in Marvel two in one annual #7. That is the issue where he fought Thing. Somebody has a lack of knowledge.

If this Champ is allowed to be pre-crisis, then y not havre Pre-Crisis Supes who can SNEEZE away entire solar-systems, make himself invisible and fly through time and space lol?

It's not good to limit one character to his current power level and let the other be his original incarnation.

Current Supes is nowhere near as powerful as he once was, and nowhere near as overpowered as many people make out. Allowing Champ his ultimate incarnation is silly and makes the fight unfair.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
wow you did it again.

thankyou......

Originally posted by juggernaut74
You see I dont understand what you are talking about. The Champion made his first appearance in Marvel two in one annual #7. That is the issue where he fought Thing. Somebody has a lack of knowledge.

that's actually what i thought as well but then the thread starter said he was reffering to a different version

Well there is no different version. Superman destroys him.

Superman is still weaker than current champion. After all Champion is the ultimate hand to hand warrior, possessor of surfer level cosmic power, able to raise his strength to around class 1000 and immortal to anything except csomic beings on a par with Death (because of Grandmaster's deal with Death). As long as he enjoys fighting then he is unbeatable.

a suped up champion got beat by one troll punch to the head from draxx a post crises superman would moiderize him.

You are a foolish fool. Champion's stats are:

Fighting: Unearthly
Agility: Monstrous
Strength: Unearthly
Endurance: Unearthly
Reason: Good
Intuition: Excellent
Psyche: Excellent

Health: 375
Karma: 50
Resources: Unearthly
Popularity: 0

Known Powers:
Immortality
Invulnerabilities: as others
Body Resistance: Incredible
Power Primordial: Unearthly
Teleport himself and others
Raise his strength +2CS for 1-10 turns.
Create Force Fields
Life Support
Champion can perform power stunts as the other elders at a Red FEAT.

Spacecraft: CL3000 speed, Amazing Control, Body and Protection

Talents:
Martial Arts B,C,E, Wrestling and Astro-navigation

Champion's first appearance was his best, but even then he largely cheated by finding reasons to disqualify his opponents and teleport them away. "No weapons allowed, goodbye Thor" "You're a brute, Hulk, I won't touch you. Goodbye". He beat up Colossus and beat the Hell out of Thing (who wouldn't go down), but that's hardly impressive.

He's gotten less powerful over time as well. In terms of physical strength, he's elite, but he's been beaten by Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, and completely humiliated by Thanos.

Champion is all sizzle, no steak. Superman specializes in beating the odds.

I'll have to give this one to Superman.

Nice one Demi.

The orginal Champ had the power gem...without it hes just karate kid.
and in the fights he got bored and wanted to leave....she hulk gave him a decent fight because during the match she was was given 9 times her normal strength.
champ didnt cheat...he fist fought...they didnt allow him to use any of his weapons and they didnt allow the heros to use theirs.
I still think the original Champ would win.

Actually, She Hulk's strength was raised exponentially to the 5th power, according to the comic book. That's about 10,000,000 tons. That's why she KOed the champ.

The champion of the universe cab heal him self at will with his cosmic powers and increase his own strength at the same time. Superman speed attacks don't mean sH!t did that stop doomsday from killing him hell no, spedd attacks are overrated. The champion is 100class on earth anywhere else it exceeds 100class far surpassing the hulk and like the hulk unlimited. marveldirectory .com Contest of champions he was beating everybody except for hulk, thor everybody else got murder. His fighting experince is unmatced. Silver age superman yes. This superman hell no he will be screaming uncle.

Ok first of all... even though you chose to use Champions strongest form and one of Supermans weakest and discredited any appearance that Chamion has made in comics... Superman would still win. He barely beat the Thing... and got beat by She Hulk... those are the facts. She Hulk is weaker than the Hulk and Superman beat the Hulk in Marvel vs DC. Face facts... dont make up your own.

Champion of the MARVEL Universe while on Earth is capable of lifting 100 tons. So he is class 100.

Champion of the MARVEL Universe does have cosmic power and he is an immortal but he can not use his cosmic power to fire energy from his body since he channels it inside of himself to make his body its peak. He is a master fighter and spends all of his free time developing his fighting skills. He might be able to take Superman if they were in a close environment. Superman though would be smarter than to let himself stay close enough to Champion.

While they share a lot of similar powers Superman has heat vision, flight, super speed, and he is more intelligent than Champion of the MARVEL Universe.

If Superman was a Marvel character they all would be happy that he is a good guy. If not it would be Game Over for that universe.

Not! The Champion of the universe will eat his a$$ up palne and simple. Did intelligents help him beat doomsday nope he DIEEE!!! Superspeed is overrated you have to go toe to toe with him blow for blow. Superman will go down in time heat vision will do nothing at all besides maikng him angery and plus the champion all ways fights with his fists not with heat vision that his rules if you voilate those rules he could crack the earth in half which he has done before to other plantes. Besides he always fight on neutral field

Originally posted by Pepito
You are a foolish fool. Champion's stats are:

Fighting: Unearthly
Agility: Monstrous
Strength: Unearthly
Endurance: Unearthly
Reason: Good
Intuition: Excellent
Psyche: Excellent

Health: 375
Karma: 50
Resources: Unearthly
Popularity: 0

Known Powers:
Immortality
Invulnerabilities: as others
Body Resistance: Incredible
Power Primordial: Unearthly
Teleport himself and others
Raise his strength +2CS for 1-10 turns.
Create Force Fields
Life Support
Champion can perform power stunts as the other elders at a Red FEAT.

Spacecraft: CL3000 speed, Amazing Control, Body and Protection

Talents:
Martial Arts B,C,E, Wrestling and Astro-navigation

What exactly does "Unearthly" mean? And "monstrous"? I mean, I know what these words are, but how do we measure those in a fight? Superman is an alien, so he's "unearthly".

Originally posted by the Darkone
Not! The Champion of the universe will eat his a$$ up palne and simple. Did intelligents help him beat doomsday nope he DIEEE!!! Superspeed is overrated you have to go toe to toe with him blow for blow. Superman will go down in time heat vision will do nothing at all besides maikng him angery and plus the champion all ways fights with his fists not with heat vision that his rules if you voilate those rules he could crack the earth in half which he has done before to other plantes. Besides he always fight on neutral field

In a way, Superman was not fighting Doomsday. He was fighting the writers and owners of DC, who decided it was time for him to die. No matter how good he was, or who he was fighting, he wasn't going to win.

And how is superspeed overrated? If Superman can move in, take some shots, and move out, he's got an advantage.

Originally posted by nigel45
He was fighting the writers and owners of DC, who decided it was time for him to die. No matter how good he was, or who he was fighting, he wasn't going to win.


So he could've been fighting the Joker and he still would have lost?

I guess you have to figure that Wonder Woman can stand her own against superman....and Champion is both stronger and more skilled in the arts of fighting. You kinda have to think of him like Batman with Superman's strength...

Champion isnt 200 or 100,000 years old, i thought he was basically created immediately after the universe itself...that is a lot of fighting experience...there is no denying champion is one of the best fighters in Marvel. He CAN fly, and he is fast, he cant move around as fast as superman probably (since marvel encorporates science into their writing), but he can certainly fly just as fast if not faster. And what is heat vision to someone who wields the power cosmic? Athough he doesnt use it often, Champion can blast fools...also, in his first appearance he was using the power cosmic for matter manipulation and teleportation to such a high degree it would have made Galactus look bad. The battle with Thing is irrelavent because he didnt want to beat the Thing by out powering him. He was obviously more powerful than Thing or any other earthling. He wanted to beat the Thing in a fair boxing match...not based on power. Champion has shattered entire planets too. I think he is kinda like a suped up gladiator type character who always loses to make other people look good. And when he was beat by She-Hulk her strength was vastly increased, and i think Drax had the power gym that time he knocked him out with surfer, but im not sure. Drax would crush Superman too. Champion should beat Superman...at least on paper.

Originally posted by Jason8200
Ok first of all... even though you chose to use Champions strongest form and one of Supermans weakest and discredited any appearance that Chamion has made in comics... Superman would still win. He barely beat the Thing... and got beat by She Hulk... those are the facts. She Hulk is weaker than the Hulk and Superman beat the Hulk in Marvel vs DC. Face facts... dont make up your own.

Champion of the MARVEL Universe while on Earth is capable of lifting 100 tons. So he is class 100.

Champion of the MARVEL Universe does have cosmic power and he is an immortal but he can not use his cosmic power to fire energy from his body since he channels it inside of himself to make his body its peak. He is a master fighter and spends all of his free time developing his fighting skills. He might be able to take Superman if they were in a close environment. Superman though would be smarter than to let himself stay close enough to Champion.

While they share a lot of similar powers Superman has heat vision, flight, super speed, and he is more intelligent than Champion of the MARVEL Universe.

If Superman was a Marvel character they all would be happy that he is a good guy. If not it would be Game Over for that universe.

I've never seen such overestimation of Superman. Shame on you.

I could name a hundred Marvel characters that would singlehandedly hand Superman his ass. A lot of folks on this forum act like Superman can't be beat without kryptonite, magic, or energy absorption. He can, and has been, knocked out. There are plenty of characters that could take down Superman in hand to hand combat. Champion of the Universe is one of them.

99 more to go.

Want me to name 'em?

yea. All 100 guys who can beat Superman without Kyrptonite, Magic and abosortion of his solar power. This should be interesting.

Damn. 1 sec.

thanos
tyrant
maestro
thor(odinforce)
captain universe
silver surfer
morg(water of life)
count nefaria
Ronan the accusser
beta ray bill
frogotten one
sersi
ikaris
destroyer
juggernaut
kurse
drax
adam warlock
magus(dark warlock)
blackbolt
rogue
dark phoenix
onslaught
apocolypse
nate grey (shaman)
overmind
odin
exodus
the runner(elder of the unvierse)
the new she hulk

cosmic cube show him what's up

Oh you already did.

Well, here's quite a few.

Any Celestial
Binary
Phoenix (all)
Nate Grey
Sentry
Franklin Richards
Silver Surfer
Firelord
Rachael Summers
Adam Warlock
Thor
Beta-Ray Bill
Rick Jones
Surtur
Terminus
Gladiator
High Evolutinary
Molecule Man
Terrax
Magneto
The Absorbing Man
Moondragon
Mephisto
Onslaught
Black Bolt
Death
Trader
Obliterater
Captain Universe
Cosmic Spiderman
Thanos
Gilgamesh
Mentor
Airwalker
Stryfe
Astronomer
Apollo
Hulk
Morg
Destroyer(armor)
Redshift
Juggernaut
Inferno
Tempest
Gardener
Doop
Apocalypse
Runner
Goblyn Queen
Shadow King
Drax
Destiny
Collector
Dr. Strange
Magik
Captain Marvell
Quasar
Adversary
Annihillus
Contemplator

MoonDragon, no. Unless she has the mind gem.
The rest are fine.

Blackbolt, Quasar, and the Hulk are debatable.

Good job.

Moondragon always has the mind gem, she's part of the infinity watch. Even without it, she could overcome Superman telepathically.

Hulk has beaten Superman. He and Superman are 1 for 1.

Blackbolt can obliterate Superman with a whisper.

Quasar can manipulate any form of electromagnetic energy, and fly at lightspeed.

All of the people I listed can beat Superman.

Moondragon is no longer part of the Infinity Watch. She wielded the Mind Gem as a member of Adam Warlock's Infinity Watch; however the team soon broke up, relinquishing their Infinity Gems to Adam Warlock. MM was unable to pierce Superman's mind. I severely doubt Moondragon could.

And Thor got his ass handed to him by Superman. We both know crossovers are bull.

Blackbolt could win. However Superman could just utilize his superspeed to relentlessly attack Blackbolt before he blinks. Or just tear off the fork on his head.

Quasar is pretty formidable. If Superman manages to attack first than Quasar goes down. Quasar can fly at lightspeed in space only. The Nega-Bands restrict this option on Earth.

The rest are fine.

Moondragon is far more powerful than Martian Manhunter, even without the mind gem. She can and will overcome Superman. The Infinity Watch has not disbanded. Moondragon possesses the Infinity Mind Gem to date.

There is no doubt that Hulk can beat Superman. Superman may be more likely to win, but Hulk could certainly beat him.

This is Superman. Not the Flash. Superman can move at about Mach 10. He never attacks anyone in a flurry, and I doubt he can. Why would Superman tear the fork off of BB's head? He doesn't even know it's purpose. Any use of BB's vocal chords will result in Superman's destruction. BB wins.

Quasar does not use the Nega bands. I think you're referring to Captain Marvell. Quasar uses the Quantum bands; he can and has flown at lightspeed in the earth's atmosphere. He will certainly attack Superman first.

All of them can beat Superman.

Edit - double post.

Any Celestial lol there can be countless so there is your 100 rite there.

Originally posted by K Von Doom
So he could've been fighting the Joker and he still would have lost?

Yeah, pretty much.

Dude, I have TOHOTMU Women of Marvel 2005 in my hand right now. It includes Moondragon. She no longer possesses neither the Dragon of the Moon nor the Mindgem. The team disbanded. As of now she "resumed her travels alongside her new love interest Phyla, Genis's sister" Stop exaggerating her abilities.

Both Superman and Hulk are capable of winning.

Superman has launched several superspeed attacks. Against Zod, against Ultraman, against Doomsday, he used it relentlessy against some predator wannabe in the recent Jim Lee series. DC has finally captatlized on his superspeed. The fork GLOWS. A quick microscan would tell Superman that the fork may be something to look at.

I meant the Quantam Bands. Sorry. Too many bands in the Marvel Universe. Quasar cannot fly at lightspeed on Earth. The Quantum Bands restrict such actions. (OHBOTHMU Avengers: 2005) Space however is not a problem. Quasar doesn't zip around at lightspeed all the time. If he could then he wouldn't have gotten tagged by Kree laser in the Disassembled event.

Hulk and Quasar can beat Superman. Moondragon and Blackbolt are out of the question.

moondragon will him crying like a baby. Remember she just as powerful as xavier basicly their tied. She will fry his brain making think that he is still on krypton and by then black bolt scream will kill him or hell blow him up.

hell sersi will turn him into pudding and step on him.

For the last friggin time, MoonDragon is not near Charle Xavier's level. She no longer possesses the Dragon of the Moon nor the Mind Gem. She's really not that good. Superman can move faster than thought. A single attack is all he requires.

Blackbolt needs time to scream. Time that he simply doesn't have against a guy who can reach a percentage of lightspeed.

Sersi is more agreeable.

what takes more time blackbolt sreaming or charging at BB.

Thor already fought BB , and BB was holding his own (he wan't using the scream)

are you telling me if BB wanted to scream at superman he can't because Superman is too fast?

Thor is as fast with his hammer as sups , so i don't see BB getting knocked out that fast when he was holding his own with thor(without the scream)

but without scream BB is dead , but am sure if BB went all out he can take him out.

BB is also super stong etc. so he should be able to take a hit or two

Originally posted by Draco69
For the last friggin time, MoonDragon is not near Charle Xavier's level. She no longer possesses the Dragon of the Moon nor the Mind Gem. She's really not that good. Superman can move faster than thought. A single attack is all he requires.

Blackbolt needs time to scream. Time that he simply doesn't have against a guy who can reach a percentage of lightspeed.

Originally posted by kgkg
what takes more time blackbolt sreaming or charging at BB.

Thor already fought BB , and BB was holding his own (he wan't using the scream)

are you telling me if BB wanted to scream at superman he can't because Superman is too fast?

Thor is as fast with his hammer as sups , so i don't see BB getting knocked out that fast when he was holding his own with thor(without the scream)

but without scream BB is dead , but am sure if BB went all out he can take him out.

BB is also super stong etc. so he should be able to take a hit or two

If Blackbolt really let loose, there's a chance. However Superman is stronger, faster, and has a dozen powers at his disposal. Too much for Blackbolt to handle.

he doesn't need to scream, can say ugh that's it blown ear drum or worse

Originally posted by nigel45


He does now. Read his comic. He speedblites like there's no tomorrow.

Originally posted by the Darkone
he doesn't need to scream, can say ugh that's it blown ear drum or worse

I highly doubt a "ugh" would knock out Superman. His "scream" isn't really sonic waves. It's more of a vibrational attack.

Or hell adam warlock will kick his a$$ and then mind wipe him at the sametime. Adam warlock mental powers a greater than thanos damn and cosmic power also use them to increase his strenght and he his a bettert fighter then he is faster.

Of course Adam Warlock would win my dear little Marvel fanboy. So would Thanos and anybody else on the list.

Moondragon, no. Blackbolt,no.

Quasar and Hulk are debatable.

The rest are accurate.

moondragon is powerful for the simple fact in thanos series issue 3-4 she is one of the few beings that can probe Galatcus mind and thaos needed her to do it. If you don't believe me pick up thanos tradepaper back.

The maestro hulk will kill him 10x times over.

Originally posted by the Darkone
moondragon is powerful for the simple fact in thanos series issue 3-4 she is one of the few beings that can probe Galatcus mind and thaos needed her to do it. If you don't believe me pick up thanos tradepaper back.

She had the Dragon of the Moon and the MindGem to aid her. Without these toys she's not very powerful.

She also had the Uni-Mind

Originally posted by the Darkone
The maestro hulk will kill him 10x times over.

We get it. You hate Superman. Jeez.

is it just me or superman is being hated .

LOl superman vs Wov lol what is that.

Superman is one top dog , and i put him over hulk because hulk is strengh alone while superman is much more.

Moondragon has never lost the Dragon of the Moon, or the Infinity Mind gem. As I have said, she's far more powerful than MM. She has a teletinetic force field to buffer his attacks, and she can definitely take down Superman before he reacts.

I have read several recent JLA and Superman comics. I have yet to see him speedblitz. If he could, he would have speedblitzed the Crime Syndicate, instead of getting KOed.

BB's voice is not a vibrational attack. It's a destructive electron stream. He doesn't need to scream. A whisper is enough to take out Superman.

well for superman to win is not imposible.

and when does BB start screaming in fights before it even starts???

I like superman, but you dc guys act like he is god and nobody can kick his a$$, I mean damn captain marvel beat the crap out of him. Even MM can kick his a$$ with out the mental powers, Dc encyclopedia states that MM have powers exceeds superman powers.

Originally posted by Draco69
Dude, I have TOHOTMU Women of Marvel 2005 in my hand right now. It includes Moondragon. She no longer possesses neither the Dragon of the Moon nor the Mindgem. The team disbanded. As of now she "resumed her travels alongside her new love interest Phyla, Genis's sister" Stop exaggerating her abilities.

Both Superman and Hulk are capable of winning.

Superman has launched several superspeed attacks. Against Zod, against Ultraman, against Doomsday, he used it relentlessy against some predator wannabe in the recent Jim Lee series. DC has finally captatlized on his superspeed. The fork GLOWS. A quick microscan would tell Superman that the fork may be something to look at.

I meant the Quantam Bands. Sorry. Too many bands in the Marvel Universe. Quasar cannot fly at lightspeed on Earth. The Quantum Bands restrict such actions. (OHBOTHMU Avengers: 2005) Space however is not a problem. Quasar doesn't zip around at lightspeed all the time. If he could then he wouldn't have gotten tagged by Kree laser in the Disassembled event.

Hulk and Quasar can beat Superman. Moondragon and Blackbolt are out of the question.

Microscan?! When has he ever performed one? Even if he can do such, why would he pay the fork any attention? It doesn't glow continuously, and he cannot think that fast, either. He's not Flash. He won't realize what the fork is. Not before BB whispers his way, spattering him.

Moondragon no longer possess the gem. Granted. She still has the Dragon of the Moon, and she can join the Uni-mind. She will defeat Superman.

The Quantum bands allow him to fly at greater than light speeds in space, and light speed on earth. When does Quasar get hit by a Kree laser? Besides, even if he was, it speaks nothing of his speed. I remember The Flash getting shot by Deathstroke.

Even mongul can kick his ass and almost killed in warworld. Sumperman 1986 issue 32 which I have.

Originally posted by the Darkone
I like superman, but you dc guys act like he is god and nobody can kick his a$$, I mean damn captain marvel beat the crap out of him. Even MM can kick his a$$ with out the mental powers, Dc encyclopedia states that MM have powers exceeds superman powers.

Well yeah, Captain Marvel and MM are at least good matches for him, but they're pretty tall orders themselves. Losing to one of them is not really something to bring a guy down a peg or two.

Alot of DC guys are more than willing to admit when he's outmatched, but occasionally there are circumstances which require further debate.

Originally posted by kgkg
well for superman to win is not imposible.

and when does BB start screaming in fights before it even starts???

Since when does Superman speedblitz his opponents at the start of a battle?

This is bloodlust. BB will destroy him.

superman has too many powers it seem the writers don't use half of it in battle senerio.

how Sad

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Moondragon has never lost the Dragon of the Moon, or the Infinity Mind gem. As I have said, she's far more powerful than MM. She has a teletinetic force field to buffer his attacks, and she can definitely take down Superman before he reacts.

I have read several recent JLA and Superman comics. I have yet to see him speedblitz. If he could, he would have speedblitzed the Crime Syndicate, instead of getting KOed.

BB's voice is not a vibrational attack. It's a destructive electron stream. He doesn't need to scream. A whisper is enough to take out Superman.

For the love god, Cosmic Cube. I have the bio of MoonDragon right here in my face. You're either misinformed or lying.

Thano's assaults on Titan drove MoonDragon to Earth where she allied herself with various heroes and joined the Avenger. Her questionable ethics and massive ego gradually estranged her from most of her peers. This culiminated in MoonDragon telepatchically forcing the Avengers to aid her in her "benevolent" conquest of the war-torn Ba-Benis, but the Avengers ultimately subdued her and turned her over to the Asgardian gods. They placed her in custody of the Defenders, who helped her truly reform until the Dragon of the Moon, a cosmic demon that she destroyed but survived inside her; boilstering and feeding her upon the darker aspects of her personality, turned her against them, resulting in the destruction of both Heather and the Dragon. (i.e. They killed her) MoonDragon was resurrected by the Eternals and her cousin, Pam Douglas, who developed powers of her own and became Sundragon. FREE FROM THE DRAGON'S INFLUENCE, Heather remains arrogant and self-righteous, but genuinely regrets her past misdeeds and wishes to be a force of good for good in the universe.

Moondragon became a mentor for Wildcat, a benefactor to Jack of Hearts and a would be lover of Quasar (who did not share her feelings), though her machinations have estranged all of them to some extent. FOR A TIME, Heather wielded the cosmic Mind Gem as a member of Adam Warlock's Infinity Watch; the Watch soon BROKE UP, RELQUISHING their Infinity Gems to Adam Warlock. A friend and admirer of the late Captain Marvel (Mar-vell), MoonDragon acted as an ally and advisor to his son, Genis, the new Captain Marvel. This led to a brief romance with Marlo, wife of Genis' partner, Rick Jones; but the Joneses soon reconciled, and Moondragon resumed her travels alongside a new love interest Phyla, Genis' sister.

Moon Dragon does not possess TK. She has " telepathy, mind control, personality altercation, memory modification, illusion casting, levitation and force blasts. Which means I won the previous thread "Past Avengers vs. Past JLA"

This is the end all bio of Moondragon. Stop overrating her.

ok if it is bloodlust then superman get's the f@ck out of there and starts throwing huge mountain bolders at him at super speed.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Since when does Superman speedblitz his opponents at the start of a battle?

This is bloodlust. BB will destroy him.

Zod, Fernus, Vera Black, Coldcast, Major Disaster, Doomsday, the Lizard, etc.

If its bloodlust, then Superman definitely wins.

Superman can get his ass kick like everybody else in dc and marvel and then some. He can't beat MM,Maestro(hulk),Takion,magog,silver surfer hell he lost to booster gold, boster gold that punk a$$ my grandmoma would kick his a$$ and she is dead. I like superman and dc and marvel but you dc guys are so biasis at times it isn't even funny.

even if he doesn't win the first.

here is what will happend superman will loose his first battle.
sence he doesn't know shit about BB and one WHAAAAAA and sups is K.Oed

but if they were to fight like 10 times

1 will go to blackblot , then the other 9 to sups in blood lust

he will stay far away throwing shit at him no way his dodging shit when sups is moving fast and throwing shit at him.

but it's wise for sups to stay as far as posible use his vision , speed , power that should be enough

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Microscan?! When has he ever performed one? Even if he can do such, why would he pay the fork any attention? It doesn't glow continuously, and he cannot think that fast, either. He's not Flash. He won't realize what the fork is. Not before BB whispers his way, spattering him.

Moondragon no longer possess the gem. Granted. She still has the Dragon of the Moon, and she can join the Uni-mind. She will defeat Superman.

The Quantum bands allow him to fly at greater than light speeds in space, and light speed on earth. When does Quasar get hit by a Kree laser? Besides, even if he was, it speaks nothing of his speed. I remember The Flash getting shot by Deathstroke.


You seriously don't think Superman has ever micro scanned something? He microscanned the Lizard. The fork can be x-rayed, microscanned and deduced. His brain operates like a supercomputer. Not as fast as the Flash. But certainly fast enough.

I already responded to your bogus statements on Moondragon. She was rejected by the Eternals due to her crimes. She can no longer access the Uni-Mind. She will not defeat Superman. Ever.

Quasar got shot by a laser beam during the Disassembled event. He also couldn't catch up with the escaping starships. He said "they're going to fast!" Please.

That was Kid Flash. When he was paralazed.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Superman can get his ass kick like everybody else in dc and marvel and then some. He can't beat MM,Maestro(hulk),Takion,magog,silver surfer hell he lost to booster gold, boster gold that punk a$$ my grandmoma would kick his a$$ and she is dead. I like superman and dc and marvel but you dc guys are so biasis at times it isn't even funny.

Biased. You're the most biased son of gun in this forum. Not even wolverine8888 comes close to you. Your posts and threads are all the evidence we need.

When did speed really aid him in battle. verses Doomsday died. verse KC shazam kicked his a$$. Booster gold sad. batman DK returns II. Speed is overrated in battle.

Doomsday possessed superspeed as well. He and Superman were battling at superspeed in the sky. Doomsday is an extremely comptent foe.

Shazam is near Superman's level. KC didn't kick his ass. Superman held back and tried to reason with his former friend. Until Superman got angry and cover his jaw.

Batman can beat anyone with preptime. He had the Flash and the rest of the JLA helping him.

Speed is everything in battle.

darkone your rite but in forum we use thire power to the max , and no boy scoot shit either.

so this is hardcore kill or get killed bloodlust mode.

in comic superman is never shown using all his power in battle if he were he whould be pretty much unbeatable.

booster gold kick his a$$, Mongul nearly killed him, MM will mop the floor with a$$. KC shazam a$$ kicked. I mean come on superman is good but damn he not unstoppable it has been proven ask booster gold and the demon. Hell I can admit that hte hulk or wonder woman hal jordan that they can lose a battle but damn when it comes to superman he is untochable like noby can beat him give me a break. Prime example crisi on infintie earth he got ko supergirl was hanging with the anti-montior where is superman laid the f**k out.

All battles are bloodlust. Read the forum rules.

Black Bolt won't be knocked out by one punch. He has Superhuman endurance. As I said, one yelp, and Superman's done.

Moondragon was not rejected by the Eternals, the Eternals raised her. She can certainly beat Superman, unless he's "immune to telepathy" too.

Please include the Issue Number of Avengers Disssembled in which this occurred.

Kid Flash was not paralyzed when he was shot.

Am not saying his unbeatable , but using all his power i don't see him losing to the likes of booster gold , shazam etc.

am just saying his not written to his full potential.

someone like thanos , surfer whould easily beat him but BB mebee once but after than supermans other power should get him wins.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Black Bolt won't be knocked out by one punch. He has Superhuman endurance. As I said, one yelp, and Superman's done.


for the first battle yes after that superman will attack from long distance

I can barely read your post. Punctuation is nonexistent. I'm not saying Superman is invincible. He has been beaten and can be beaten.

Booster Gold had help.

Mongul got knocked out in one punch in the Superman/Batman series.

MM would most definitely win.

KC Shazam didn't win anything. Superman was holding back. Superman got angry and forced his hand around Shazam's mouth rendering him powerless. Superman would have won if he was forced to.

No idea what demon you're talking about.

The Anti-Monitor was Galactus level powerful. Of course Superman lost.

moondragon was raised by enternals of titan by mentor. she has eteranl body when here body was resuurected by them.

he had the atom,green arrow and the flash. three members.

Originally posted by Draco69

MM would most definitely win.


Why?

Originally posted by Draco69
Speed is everything in battle.

No. It isn't.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
All battles are bloodlust. Read the forum rules.

Black Bolt won't be knocked out by one punch. He has Superhuman endurance. As I said, one yelp, and Superman's done.

Moondragon was not rejected by the Eternals, the Eternals raised her. She can certainly beat Superman, unless he's "immune to telepathy" too.

Please include the Issue Number of Avengers Disssembled in which this occurred.

Kid Flash was not paralyzed when he was shot.

One punch won't knock out Blackbolt. However several superspeed punches will. A yelp won't knock out Superman in one through.

I told you not to lie about MoonDragon anymore. MoonDragon tried to take over their friggin planet. Of course they rejected her. Superman is faster than thought and he has resisted MM's telepathy. MoonDragon isn't winning. Period.

Issue #502.

Kid Flash was temporarily paralazed with a dart by Deathstroke. Deathstroke proceeded to shoot him in the knee.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Why?

Too many powers. Superman admitted that he would be afraid to face him.

Originally posted by the Darkone
moondragon was raised by enternals of titan by mentor. she has eteranl body when here body was resuurected by them.

She has a human body. For god's sake, I posted a comphrensive bio from the mouth of the horse. She's human not an Eternal.

action comics 587 the demon (jason blood) hello!Booster gold kick his ass all by himself action comics 594 which I have the comic.

Supergirl was fighting anti montior toe to toe. superman catch some zzzzzzz

Originally posted by the Darkone
he had the atom,green arrow and the flash. three members.

Flash's speed, kryptonite, and a man who can shrink to microscopic size.

That's enough to take him down. However Superman was holding back. This Superman was extremely dumb.

moondragon does not have a human body because thanos destroyed her and her parents. she live by pyshic link with her sister, mentor (thanos father) found out what happened brought her sister to titan they clone her a new body dna from her sister and from a eternal. And transfer her thoughts into her new body. marvel universe K-Mhand book 1983

Originally posted by the Darkone
action comics 587 the demon (jason blood) hello!Booster gold kick his ass all by himself action comics 594 which I have the comic.

Supergirl was fighting anti montior toe to toe. superman catch some zzzzzzz

He's called Etrigan. He's a friggin demon from hell. Magic + Demonic strength can beat Superman.

Booster Gold beating Superman is inprobable since he got his ass handed to him by Doomsday in a few panels.

Supergirl was not facing the Anti-Monitor itself. She was facing a guard of the Anti-Monitor. Who killed her.

Originally posted by the Darkone
moondragon does not have a human body because thanos destroyed her and her parents. she live by pyshic link with her sister, mentor (thanos father) found out what happened brought her sister to titan they clone her a new body dna from her sister and from a eternal. And transfer her thoughts into her new body. marvel universe K-Mhand book 1983

You're wrong. Thanos killed her parents but not Heather. Heather was adopted by the Eternals of Saturn's moon. Thanos failed to kill her.

Moondragon doesn't HAVE a sister.

pick up a back issue there is the issue number 594.Got his a$$ handed to him on a silver plater.booster gold that is shameful

marvel universe k-m 1983

Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Women of Marvel 2005

Originally posted by the Darkone
pick up a back issue there is the issue number 594.Got his a$$ handed to him on a silver plater.booster gold that is shameful

But not realistic. I don't know what happened. I can't find a synopsis. And I'm certainly not taking your word for it. For all I know, there were extenuating circumstances.

Night y'all

Superman won't be able to knock BB out before he utters a sound, knocking Superman out. A whisper from Black Bolt has destroyed a range of mountains.

Moondragon has unmatched telepathic abilities even without the Gem or the Uni-mind. She's still more powerful than MM. Don't call me a liar. When did she attempt to take over the "Eternals home world?" (Though I already know there is no "Eternal homeworld."

A dart. Why the hell would he shoot him with a dart? Does it move faster than a shotgun shell? Was this dart, (by any chance) moving at lightspeed?

marvel universe k-m gives more info 1983.cousin I will admited that one. Her new body is eternal dna. www. marvunapp .com appendix /appchctr. htm

hell makkari will b***h slap superman and he runs faster than the flash. Hell he the runner (elder of the universe) is faster then the flash food for thought

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Superman won't be able to knock BB out before he utters a sound, knocking Superman out. A whisper from Black Bolt has destroyed a range of mountains.

Moondragon has unmatched telepathic abilities even without the Gem or the Uni-mind. She's still more powerful than MM. Don't call me a liar. When did she attempt to take over the "Eternals home world?" (Though I already know there is no "Eternal homeworld."

A dart. Why the hell would he shoot him with a dart? Does it move faster than a shotgun shell? Was this dart, (by any chance) moving at lightspeed?

I'm calling you a liar because you lied about everything regarding MoonDragon. MoonDragon's powers are nowhere near MM's level. Give it up. No Dragon, No Uni-Mind, No Gem. Her telepathy is low-level without them. The Handbook rates Charles Xavier's telepathy at Level 6 and MoonDragon at Level 3. She's not that good. The Eternal homeworld is Titan. Which she assaulted under the influence of the Dragon and her own mad deeds. She's not connected to the Uni-Mind. (Avengers #216 & 217)

Deathstroke used a sniper rifle. Kid Flash (immature brat he was) didn't know what hit him. Until he was paralazed and Deathstroke shot him in the knee.

Originally posted by the Darkone
marvel universe k-m gives more info 1983.cousin I will admited that one. Her new body is eternal dna. www. marvunapp .com appendix /appchctr. htm

You said her sister. Not cousin.

The link is nonexistent. It doesn't work.

go to google type in (marvel universe ) double click "appendix to the handbook to marvel" (click on characters go to eternals it will take you too sersi loft click on encyclopedia olympianna ) moondragon overmaster study the world of marvel gods and eternals

Her powers are far from "low level." She has telepathically subdued a planet of millions without the Mind Gem. She's far more skilled than MM; all of Mentor's telepathic abilities, and techniques were telepathically transferred to her. She can destroy reinforced steel with a mental bolt, or kill someone from 20 feet. You are drastically downplaying her abilities. She is an immensely powerful telepath without any enhancements.

Heh, if we're going by current power levels, Quasar is currently Captain Universe. Imagine that. Captain Universe with the Quantum bands.

Originally posted by Draco69
. The Handbook rates Charles Xavier's telepathy at Level 6 and MoonDragon at Level 3. She's not that good. The Eternal homeworld is Titan. Which she assaulted under the influence of the Dragon and her own mad deeds. She's not connected to the Uni-Mind. (Avengers #216 & 217)


Wow. YOU'RE lying. Telepathy is not even a stat on the Handbook ability charts. I've got the X-Men Handbook. There's Intelligence, Strength, Durability, Speed, Energy Projection, and Fighting ability. Telepathy is not measured.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Her powers are far from "low level." She has telepathically subdued a planet of millions without the Mind Gem. She's far more skilled than MM; all of Mentor's telepathic abilities, and techniques were telepathically transferred to her. She can destroy reinforced steel with a mental bolt, or kill someone from 20 feet. You are drastically downplaying her abilities. She is an immensely powerful telepath without any enhancements.

Again with lying. She telepathically enslaved millions on the planet Ba-Genis with THE DRAGON OF THE MOON enhancing her powers and controlling her. Iron Man also built a machine to amplify her powers.

You're drastically exgarrating her powers. Give it up. Stop lying. I have the information right in front of me.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Wow. YOU'RE lying. Telepathy is not even a stat on the Handbook ability charts. I've got the X-Men Handbook. There's Intelligence, Strength, Durability, Speed, Energy Projection, and Fighting ability. Telepathy is not measured.

If you use what little brain you have, Telepathy is under "Energy Projection" which is Level Three. Charles is far above that. MoonDragon has Level Three "Energy Projection". Thus Charles is a more powerful telepath.

You lied about everything regarding MoonDragon and you refuse to admit it. I caught you in the act.

Watch the insults, mister. You still lied. Charles is a 5.

You didn't say "energy projection" you said "telepathy."

Moondragon never lost the Dragon of the moon.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Heh, if we're going by current power levels, Quasar is currently Captain Universe. Imagine that. Captain Universe with the Quantum bands.

Source. I really don't trust you anymore. Searched the Net. The only reference to Quasar being Captain Universe is a old "What-If?" issue.

Originally posted by Draco69
Again with lying. She telepathically enslaved millions on the planet Ba-Genis with THE DRAGON OF THE MOON enhancing her powers and controlling her. Iron Man also built a machine to amplify her powers.


I said without the mind gem. Not the dragon of the moon. Read up.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Watch the insults, mister. You still lied. Charles is a 5.

You didn't say "energy projection" you said "telepathy."

Moondragon never lost the Dragon of the moon.

I misquoted. I don't have the comic on hand and I'm certainly not gonna look for it. Moon Dragon is Three and Charles is 5. Do the math.


Did you read my previous post. I even CAP the part where she lost the Dragon of the Moon.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I said without the mind gem. Not the dragon of the moon. Read up.

Repost.

Thano's assaults on Titan drove MoonDragon to Earth where she allied herself with various heroes and joined the Avenger. Her questionable ethics and massive ego gradually estranged her from most of her peers. This culiminated in MoonDragon telepatchically forcing the Avengers to aid her in her "benevolent" conquest of the war-torn Ba-Benis, but the Avengers ultimately subdued her and turned her over to the Asgardian gods. They placed her in custody of the Defenders, who helped her truly reform until the Dragon of the Moon, a cosmic demon that she destroyed but survived inside her; boilstering and feeding her upon the darker aspects of her personality, turned her against them, resulting in the destruction of both Heather and the Dragon. (i.e. They killed her) MoonDragon was resurrected by the Eternals and her cousin, Pam Douglas, who developed powers of her own and became Sundragon. FREE FROM THE DRAGON'S INFLUENCE, Heather remains arrogant and self-righteous, but genuinely regrets her past misdeeds and wishes to be a force of good for good in the universe.

Moondragon became a mentor for Wildcat, a benefactor to Jack of Hearts and a would be lover of Quasar (who did not share her feelings), though her machinations have estranged all of them to some extent. FOR A TIME, Heather wielded the cosmic Mind Gem as a member of Adam Warlock's Infinity Watch; the Watch soon BROKE UP, RELQUISHING their Infinity Gems to Adam Warlock. A friend and admirer of the late Captain Marvel (Mar-vell), MoonDragon acted as an ally and advisor to his son, Genis, the new Captain Marvel. This led to a brief romance with Marlo, wife of Genis' partner, Rick Jones; but the Joneses soon reconciled, and Moondragon resumed her travels alongside a new love interest Phyla, Genis' sister.

Moon Dragon does not possess TK. She has " telepathy, mind control, personality altercation, memory modification, illusion casting, levitation and force blasts. Which means I won the previous thread "Past Avengers vs. Past JLA"

This is the end all bio of Moondragon. Stop overrating her.

YOU need to read up.

I don't trust you. You have the book. Show me a scan that says moondragon's a 3.

Can we stop with the bad words? "Lying" is so harsh. Try "story-telling."

I don't have a scanner. Don't be self-righteous. The only one who "story-telled" about Moondragon is you.

And for God's sake do you really think I wrote the entry above by myself? I copied it from the book.

lol. I had no i-deer that she lost so much power. I'm such a storyteller. At any rate, when she was MOONDRAGON, not Heather, or whatever the f her name is, she would kill superman. The Dragon of the Moon gave her the vast majority of her power. She's like GL without his ring.

Finally.

Without the Dragon, she isn't Moondragon.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
lol. I had no i-deer that she lost so much power. I'm such a storyteller. At any rate, when she was MOONDRAGON, not Heather, or whatever the f her name is, she would kill superman. The Dragon of the Moon gave her the vast majority of her power. She's like GL without his ring.

Heather is her real name. With the Dragon of the Moon then yes she could beat Superman. At her normal levels, no.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Without the Dragon, she isn't Moondragon.

Dragon of the Moon....Moondragon.

Yeah, I guess she isn't.

Well then, I didn't "story tell." I was under the assumption that she had the dragon.

She lost the Dragon 20 years ago. Although she rarely pops up nowadays.

Originally posted by Draco69
Dragon of the Moon....Moondragon.

Yeah, I guess she isn't.

Remember? She became Moondragon after absorbing the Dragon of the Moon. It still took quite some will power for her to subdue it.

pyslocke will kick superman a$$ and she is a ninja with telepath psi blade

Heh.

20 YEARS AGO!? What issue #?

she's back she is lastest uncanny xmen issue last month issue

Originally posted by Draco69
I meant the Quantam Bands. Sorry. Too many bands in the Marvel Universe. Quasar cannot fly at lightspeed on Earth. The Quantum Bands restrict such actions.

There's no such restriction on the Q-bands. Quasar just chooses not to because it messes with the atmosphere. At his normal supersonic flight speed, Ikaris was able to keep up with him but he once increased his speed, due to an emergency, and Ikaris was left wondering where Quasar went.

Quasar files at warp speed

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
20 YEARS AGO!? What issue #?

Defenders Vol. 1 #145 & 151-152 1983-1986

That's more than twenty years actually.