Are the Sith really Evil? Honestly

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



sanatayesse
From what I've been reading on the novels and comics, Palpatine's point of view sounds very convincing in that Jedi are taught that sith are evil and its probably the same thing for the sith. I think George Lucas mentioned something that the sith were like the first civilization who were present, until the jedi came and wiped them out. I mean I know the sith ways seem akward like: master and apprentice trying to kill eachother off, but I feel that is just what they do in the nature and that's why they are very powerful. Remember the quote from episode 3 trailer: "the darkside of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural". In the end there will always be two opposite disctinct sides with opposite points of view and maybe that's why palpatine is so good in luring Ankakin to join him. Whenever I hear the word dark side, I always got the idea that no one really knows where that side leads(kinda like the dark ages) and the jedi perceive it as evil. Anyhow, I hope this kinda makes people think....PEACE!!

TheForceSupreme

oddjob02
the SIth are evil in that the focus of a Sith is nothing but slef. Not in a Jedi way of patience and peace, but emotional frenzy and power. A jedi seeks no grand praise. Sith want to rule and commad, have no one challenge their say. In that way they are eviel.

((The_Anomaly))
well, the premise of the entire star wars trilogies is good vs evil. mr. lucas himself has said this on many occasions. although ur point makes some sense, its the same thing as someone saying that hitler is not really a bad person, he just didn't like the jews, where as other people did, so there just opposing views. but quite obviously hitler was the bad person, because well its obvious. you are kinda getting into an epistemological question here on what is really morally right. obviously enslaving the galaxy and wanting to kill everyone that gets in your way is not good.

Echuu
sith are evil- palps was a freaky maniac wanting to control the galaxy- thats pretty evil to me; plus the empire oppressed other people so much i.e. taking slaves or making garrisons on different worlds; not to mention the fact that they were rascist and didn't allow aliens in their army

weren't the jedi first? I thought the sith came after of the jedi and there was so many they had the jedi/sith war and the sith mostly died....

that is EU of course but o well

((The_Anomaly))
well, all the sith stuff is EU, and it cant be taken 100% literally...so we really dont know who was first. according to the EU the sith were after the jedi, well the sith order anyways. there was a species of people called the sith, and the current sith are not really sith they just follow those ways. but the lightsaber weilding sith were used to came from a few jedi who embraced the darkside a really long time before Eps. I

Echuu
yeah thought so

it'd be nice if george would clear that up for us

Darth Plagueis
Come-on!! The DEATH Star???? Jedi don't blow planets up, killing billions of innocents......that is PURE evil!

TheForceSupreme
Originally posted by Darth Plagueis
Come-on!! The DEATH Star???? Jedi don't blow planets up, killing billions of innocents......that is PURE evil!

LOLZ...WORD! laughing

WindDancer
This seems to be more like EU material.

Moving to EU forum....

Force Adept
Well the simple fact that Lucas refers to Palpatine as the Devil, should give you a little insight on whether he's evil or not.

Sith follow emotions such as fear, hate, and have very aggresive tendencies, whereas the Jedi are more just guardians of peace. Sith do not help peace in any way, so them being wiped out might have something to do with that.

Really, I can't remember the last time a Jedi enslaved a race, say oh, the Wookies. smile

Ushgarak
Yup, easy answer. GL says yes, end of story. Any attempt to insert moral gray areas into Star Wars is to miss the point of the films.

SnakeEyes
Let me clarify:

Sith=Bad Guys
Jedi= Good Guys

AragonIsKing
no, they're just confused

mephistodesigns
there are actually grey areas in star wars, in the case of Anakin. Because Luke brings him back, so some evil can become good again. That's a grey area. Its the only grey area, but one none the less. But yeah, the Sith are clearly evil. That's why they get Revenge and the Jedi get to Return....give it a minute, let it breath, it'll make sense. Yeah I know, its still a stupid joke. but its true. He didn't call ROTJ Revenge of the Jedi because that's not what they're about. The Revenge of the Sith is more suitable for Sith because they're EVILLLLLLL!

LanİeWindu™
Reading this thread reminds me of the Death Star 2 discussion in Clerks.

The Rebels killed a whole bunch of innocent construction workers, they are no better than the Sith.

mephistodesigns
somebody joked in TOYFARE magazine about Anakin kills people and he's evil, but Luke being justified in killing all those guys in Jabba's skiffs because they were ugly. Good stuff!

INDEPEDANT CONTRACTORS!!!!!

LanİeWindu™
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
somebody joked in TOYFARE magazine about Anakin kills people and he's evil, but Luke being justified in killing all those guys in Jabba's skiffs because they were ugly. Good stuff!

INDEPEDANT CONTRACTORS!!!!!

That's right, he didn't kill the skiff guards. More like put them out of their misery.

Uber_God
wat misery?
see how sexy they were?
they must have had all the chicks

Force Adept
Grey area my ass. He was good (white).... then he was bad (black) .......(this was for awhile)........Then he was good again (white). It's as simple as black and white. What you're trying to do is combine all his crap, good and bad. Timelines, fortunately don't work like that. They don't fold over on themselves to make a pretty new picture or story, they go in a straightforward line.

Uber_God
He means grey as how he didnt kill luke when he had the chance and when he turned back to the light at the end of rotj

Force Adept
And I still mean Grey my ass stick out tongue

mephistodesigns
roll eyes (sarcastic)

ryano
SITH ARE EVIL JEDI ARE GOOD END STORY CLOSE THIS EXUCSE O A FORUM DOWN

Force Adept
I'm glad you cleared that up ryano stick out tongue

Darth Jello
ok, so the sith create imbalances in the force while the jedi create balance.

so let's say your in a small, cramped room with two guys. one of the sprays febreeze and the other one is lactose intolerant but keeps eating cheese and farting anyway. so which one of them is evil?

Uber_God
ok then ryano king god of all star wars knowledge

Ushgarak

Darth Christian
you have to understand that 1 both sith and jedi cannot live without each other the jedi created the imbalance by wiping out all the sith there was already an imbalance in the FORCE not in there world system but in THE FORCE! the way i see things is that its a yin and yang system that runs the star wars universe...both the jedi and sith codes i disagree with the jedi code says no emotion...sounds like communism to me (which in all actuallity looks good on paper) but you see how no emotions looks like in the movie equiliberium...everything is grey and there is no art...you take passion away then there goes love and everyother wonderful emotion with it. and the sith code i have a problem with that because they say peace is a lie...i believe peace is something that can be attained once a man decides to look past his own condition and culture but man is so ready to be offended for culture or conditions sake that he would rather die fighting then to try and understand each other...Im gonna stop right here i just wanted to get you guys to think a little bit. I think peace can be attained if your passionate enough to want it...just becarful where your passion leads you.

mattatom
Originally posted by Darth Christian
you have to understand that 1 both sith and jedi cannot live without each other the jedi created the imbalance by wiping out all the sith there was already an imbalance in the FORCE not in there world system but in THE FORCE! the way i see things is that its a yin and yang system that runs the star wars universe...both the jedi and sith codes i disagree with the jedi code says no emotion...sounds like communism to me (which in all actuallity looks good on paper) but you see how no emotions looks like in the movie equiliberium...everything is grey and there is no art...you take passion away then there goes love and everyother wonderful emotion with it. and the sith code i have a problem with that because they say peace is a lie...i believe peace is something that can be attained once a man decides to look past his own condition and culture but man is so ready to be offended for culture or conditions sake that he would rather die fighting then to try and understand each other...Im gonna stop right here i just wanted to get you guys to think a little bit. I think peace can be attained if your passionate enough to want it...just becarful where your passion leads you. Resurrection much? Oh and Peace is a lie. I've never been at peace.

Alkaselzer
Furthermore, it is incorrect. erm The Sith and the Jedi are not Ying and Yang.

truejedi
the sith are evil. Honestly.

Nephthys
Oh yeah, cuz the jedi have never concentrated thier power into a wall of light that would almost certainly have wiped out the Massassi had not Exar Kun got their first. Iirc that is.

This isn't directed at the original poster btw.

Q'Anilia
Originally posted by sanatayesse
From what I've been reading on the novels and comics, Palpatine's point of view sounds very convincing in that Jedi are taught that sith are evil and its probably the same thing for the sith. I think George Lucas mentioned something that the sith were like the first civilization who were present, until the jedi came and wiped them out. I mean I know the sith ways seem akward like: master and apprentice trying to kill eachother off, but I feel that is just what they do in the nature and that's why they are very powerful. Remember the quote from episode 3 trailer: "the darkside of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural". In the end there will always be two opposite disctinct sides with opposite points of view and maybe that's why palpatine is so good in luring Ankakin to join him. Whenever I hear the word dark side, I always got the idea that no one really knows where that side leads(kinda like the dark ages) and the jedi perceive it as evil. Anyhow, I hope this kinda makes people think....PEACE!!

The Sith kill innocents. I find that evil.

Hewhoknowsall
Bane killed a random, innocent family in order to heal himself by taking strength in their suffering.

Sith = evil

Autokrat
The mythos of Star Wars contains ethical absolutes unlike ours.

The Sith are clearly evil.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Autokrat
The mythos of Star Wars contains ethical absolutes unlike ours.

The Sith are clearly evil.

True, the sith are evil (as shown in my above example, an act that is really horrible), but just because GL says that X are evil doesn't mean that they are.

Morality does not alter from universe to universe. What people say is right/wrong might, but logic and reason do not.

Nephthys
Yup.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yup.

That's evil.

The fact that he takes strength in their suffering is ridiculous.

mattatom
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Bane killed a random, innocent family in order to heal himself by taking strength in their suffering.

Sith = evil So preserving your own life makes you evil?

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by mattatom
So preserving your own life makes you evil?

He ENJOYED their suffering and it gave them strength.

He even tried to make it SLOW and DELAY it in order to build up the moment.

He also contemplated killing someone that had just saved his life.

mattatom
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
He ENJOYED their suffering and it gave them strength.

He even tried to make it SLOW and DELAY it in order to build up the moment.

He also contemplated killing someone that had just saved his life. So I would ENJOY an oppurtunity that would give me a chance to live.
That sounds like a epuphemism for an orgasm which yes you would slow it and delay it to make it a helluva lot better.

So? I contemplate killing people all the time. Have I killed them all? No, just one of them. I also give generously, i am a magnanimous person, am I evil?

Nephthys
He made it slow becuase that would give him more power, which he needed so he wouldn't die. Bane isn't a mindless killer and he doesn't enjoy hurting people.

Hewhoknowsall
Lord Kaan's (we're talking about all sith) thoughts:

"He relished their suffering and despair; even now he could sense it rising up like the stench from the broken corpses scattered about the valley"

And this wasn't because his life was in peril: he simply relished peoples' suffering.

How twisted can someone get?

The sith code says that peace is a lie. They actually want war and suffering.

Lord Lucien
I hate the absolute morality line. I just don't by that every single person that supported the Empire KNEW of, and was AWARE of the atrocities that took place.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I hate the absolute morality line. I just don't by that every single person that supported the Empire KNEW of, and was AWARE of the atrocities that took place.

Of course not; this is stated NUMEROUS times. For example, Star Wars: Death Star was basically about imperials recognizing the evilness and tyranny of the Empire.

When the Death Star blew up, one of them said that not everyone on the Death Star was a monster.

Autokrat
Really when you look at the Sith Code and philosophy, its been almost ripped wholesale from Nietzsche.

truejedi
yeah, the Sith are bad news. The whole empire wasn't bad, remember the Empourer's Fist?

Darth Truculent
A very good question - Caedus was willing to destroy the galaxy to protect Allana. He wanted 'peace,' but he figured as Ben put it "total control."

Some Sith become Sith for reasons they thought would be right. Anakin thought he could save Padme for example. As tragic as it was, he was willing to kill innocents to save her. That's hardly not being evil. Sith manipulate, lie, murder and lust for absolute power. If that's not evil, then what is?

Bespin Bart
Whether or not you like the moral absolutism of Star Wars and the Sith being evil, it's how it is.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Bespin Bart
Whether or not you like the moral absolutism of Star Wars and the Sith being evil, it's how it is.

GL doesn't decide morality.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
A very good question - Caedus was willing to destroy the galaxy to protect Allana. He wanted 'peace,' but he figured as Ben put it "total control."

Some Sith become Sith for reasons they thought would be right. Anakin thought he could save Padme for example. As tragic as it was, he was willing to kill innocents to save her. That's hardly not being evil. Sith manipulate, lie, murder and lust for absolute power. If that's not evil, then what is?

Sith that aren't TRULY "evil":

Caedus
Dooku?
Vader in his early years

truejedi
problem being, the darkside corrupted any sith who tried to be sith for good reason to be evil.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
GL doesn't decide morality. When it comes to his universe, he does.



Dooku was very evil.

Lord Lucien
Yeah, a lot of people are fooled by his grace and noble stature. But that guy was a bastard.

mattatom
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah, a lot of people are fooled by his grace and noble stature. But that guy was a bastard. He was Sidious's whiny b*tch. Damn GL.

roughrider
Originally posted by Echuu
yeah thought so

it'd be nice if george would clear that up for us

I think George lets people make up their own minds.
He has said, in regards to the Sith - "Evil people don't think they are commiting evil. They think they are doing good, from their point of view." For the Sith, they believe they are embracing what the Force can grant them, willing to take the risks the Jedi won't. Maybe every one of them thought they could beat the trap of the dark side (that it makes you power hungry and paranoid), but they all fail.

REXXXX
The Sith can think they're doing the right thing all they want, that doesn't mean they are. Really, there is an obvious moral absolutism in Star Wars- Good vs. Bad, Light vs. Dark. No in-betweens or amiguous morality. It's a discussion that has been done a million times over on KMC.

As Sids66 responded to you, Hewhoknowsall, Lucas very much can decide what the morality is of his work.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by REXXXX
The Sith can think they're doing the right thing all they want, that doesn't mean they are. Really, there is an obvious moral absolutism in Star Wars- Good vs. Bad, Light vs. Dark. No in-betweens or amiguous morality. It's a discussion that has been done a million times over on KMC. But what of the regular Joes? The ones who don't know shit about the evil-doings of their overlords, but still support the regime? Moral absolutists would claim that their ignorance is no excuse.

mattatom
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But what of the regular Joes? The ones who don't know shit about the evil-doings of their overlords, but still support the regime? Moral absolutists would claim that their ignorance is no excuse. You mean like the people from the Novel "Death Star" where it shows you what happens from their PoV and how they feel?

Lord Lucien
Wish I'd read that. But yeah, sure.

mattatom
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Wish I'd read that. But yeah, sure. I've got it, I really enjoyed it. Rereading it as we type.

Darth Truculent
Darkside users like Brakiss and Lomi Plo have no 'code' to follow. They simply use the darkside. Sith seek absolute control and the destruction of the Jedi Order. Dooku was a Sith yes, but IMO not truly a Sith Lord. He was a mere pawn in Sidious's way to turn Anakin.

Lord Lucien
No he was a Sith Lord--in name anyway. When you join the Order of the Sith Lords you become a Dark Lord.

REXXXX
Dooku was a Sith Lord. You can't be kind of a Sith Lord. no expression

As far as the films are concerned, Imperials are bad guys. People who worked for the Empire but were unaware that the Empire was evil... are probably kind of dumb...

mattatom
Originally posted by REXXXX
Dooku was a Sith Lord. You can't be kind of a Sith Lord. no expression

As far as the films are concerned, Imperials are bad guys. People who worked for the Empire but were unaware that the Empire was evil... are probably kind of dumb... That or they knew the Empire was evil and just thought, "all I'm trying to do is get by, I don't care who runs the galaxy as long as I get my delivery!"

REXXXX
Which really doesn't make them good people, from the absolutist point of view, no?

mattatom
Originally posted by REXXXX
Which really doesn't make them good people, from the absolutist point of view, no? True, if your into that sorta thing. Then one ordinary man cannot choose how his government or rulers act.

Lord Lucien
I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the Universe.

People who were apart of the military, bureaucracy, and general populace supported the Empire. I just don't buy in to the sentiment that billions upon billions---trillions of people were inherently evil.

truejedi
everyone in the empire wasn't a sith Lucien. Sidious and Vader were evil. The others, define as you will.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by truejedi
everyone in the empire wasn't a sith Lucien. Sidious and Vader were evil. The others, define as you will. Shazbot?... I didn't say they were Sith, I'm saying that I don't believe that everyone who supported the Empire was evil, which is the argument of the moral absolutist. I.e. if you support and an evil regime but don't know/see it as evil, then you yourself must be evil because your ignorance is not an excuse. I hate that line of thinking, loathe it.

truejedi
ah, i see, i thought you were addressing the thread title topic.

Autokrat
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Shazbot?... I didn't say they were Sith, I'm saying that I don't believe that everyone who supported the Empire was evil, which is the argument of the moral absolutist. I.e. if you support and an evil regime but don't know/see it as evil, then you yourself must be evil because your ignorance is not an excuse. I hate that line of thinking, loathe it.

Ethical absolutism is rather inane, although it could be argued that true ignorance could excuse someone from being labeled as evil. Of course the absolutist could counter that it is a moral duty to not be ignorant.

Lord Lucien
Stupid absolutists. They're Sith, no one should listen to them.

REXXXX
Exactly!

...

I think the idea is more that the people who actively serve in the Empire (i.e. Palpatine's war machine) are more at fault than the people who just live in the Empire. I feel like the films imply that they are all trying to get back to democracy.

Darth Truculent
Then Starkiller/Galen Marek is a Sith Lord! Asajj Ventress too. They were Sith Lord's in name only. No. Dooku was a pawn in Sidious's game to turn Anakin.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Then Starkiller/Galen Marek is a Sith Lord! Asajj Ventress too. They were Sith Lord's in name only. No, they were never christened as Dark Lords nor given the "Darth" honorific.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
No. Dooku was a pawn in Sidious's game to turn Anakin. Really and for true?

Darth Truculent
Lucien - then why did Sidious have Dooku killed? Anakin was already pissed as it was for Dooku taking his arm. "It is only natural, he cut off your arm and you wanted revenge." That's according to the movie. In the book it says something like "betrayal is the way of the Sith" - Dooku thought that a few seconds before he was executed. Sidious used Dooku after Anakin was recognized as being extremely strong in the Force. He wanted Anakin.

What I wrote about Marek & Ventress was a shot of sarcasm. Sorry if I failed miserbly.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Lucien - then why did Sidious have Dooku killed? Anakin was already pissed as it was for Dooku taking his arm. "It is only natural, he cut off your arm and you wanted revenge." That's according to the movie. In the book it says something like "betrayal is the way of the Sith" - Dooku thought that a few seconds before he was executed. Sidious used Dooku after Anakin was recognized as being extremely strong in the Force. He wanted Anakin.I am legitimately befuddled at what you're getting at here.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
What I wrote about Marek & Ventress was a shot of sarcasm. Sorry if I failed miserbly. Ah.

REXXXX
Sidious needed someone powerful and charismatic like Count Dooku to get his plans into motion during the years leading up to the Clone Wars.

mattatom
Oh come on Rex, it's clear everyone understood what Maul meant. He could of been just as good. Afterall everyone knew... Maul meant business

REXXXX
Maul couldn't have been much of a public figure, really. I feel like that wouldn't work well. stick out tongue

mattatom
Originally posted by REXXXX
Maul couldn't have been much of a public figure, really. I feel like that wouldn't work well. stick out tongue I guess, but look at it really, use photoshop to merge Obama and Satan's face from SouthPark together add a couple more horns and you get...Maul!

REXXXX
facepalm

Gideon
REXXXX
Sidious needed someone powerful and charismatic like Count Dooku to get his plans into motion during the years leading up to the Clone Wars.

Possibly. Sidious claims to have forseen Maul's death in the Essential Guide to the Force, but the Phantom Menace shows Sidious being extremely angry with his apprentice's death.

The point is that if Sidious didn't intend to lose Maul and replace him with Dooku, then he clearly had a plan for conquering the Republic without Dooku.

Lord Lucien
Or maybe he was going to use Dooku in some other fashion.

I don't recall Sidious being pissed TPM, though.

Gideon
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Or maybe he was going to use Dooku in some other fashion.

I don't recall Sidious being pissed TPM, though.

Novelization.

Lord Lucien
Ah good times. Lots of San People to be helped, no accents to be heard... good times.

Jamefril
Although he is usually considered an unknown I think there is one instance where the sith aren't trying to be bad. They simply didn't have any other choice. Revan. According to KOTOR 1+2 Revan saw something beyond the war and the difference in religion. He saw a greater darkness that had to be stopped for the galaxy to survive. The Jedi would not listen to him, or would not permit him to to go to war to fight this darkness so he turned on the Jedi and fought in the Mandalorian Wars. He would rather turn the Jedi than kill them though, why? Because they had to see it from his point of view and he would need their help to stop the darkness he had seen. He wanted peace but the Jedi would not allow him to fight for it. He also decided to take out certian political leaders that would upset the balance of the peace he was hoping to have but then Malak did the typical sith and tried to kill him. Revan was never able to finish his plans to stop the great darkness and bring peace. Of course we don't know if he would have brought peace or not because Malak interupted him. Because of Malak the Jedi, Sith, and the Republic were almost destroyed. Malak was evil, but I believe Revan was trying to find peace but was labeled a tyrant instead.
Hope this is considered thinking about it. Again Revan is considered an unknown and this info. was based off of KOTOR1+2. Not the most reliable sources.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Jamefril
Although he is usually considered an unknown I think there is one instance where the sith aren't trying to be bad. They simply didn't have any other choice. Revan. According to KOTOR 1+2 Revan saw something beyond the war and the difference in religion. He saw a greater darkness that had to be stopped for the galaxy to survive. The Jedi would not listen to him, or would not permit him to to go to war to fight this darkness so he turned on the Jedi and fought in the Mandalorian Wars. He would rather turn the Jedi than kill them though, why? Because they had to see it from his point of view and he would need their help to stop the darkness he had seen. He wanted peace but the Jedi would not allow him to fight for it. He also decided to take out certian political leaders that would upset the balance of the peace he was hoping to have but then Malak did the typical sith and tried to kill him. Revan was never able to finish his plans to stop the great darkness and bring peace. Of course we don't know if he would have brought peace or not because Malak interupted him. Because of Malak the Jedi, Sith, and the Republic were almost destroyed. Malak was evil, but I believe Revan was trying to find peace but was labeled a tyrant instead.
Hope this is considered thinking about it. Again Revan is considered an unknown and this info. was based off of KOTOR1+2. Not the most reliable sources. Yeah... all of us here know all of that. And Revan's a Gary Stu, if there's gonna be a Sith that didn't truly "fall" to the Dark Side, and only embraced it to save the galaxy, it would be President "Revan" Obama.

Oh and what's considered Unknown is the KotOR character's powers and strengths, not their bios.

mattatom
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah... all of us here know all of that. And Revan's a Gary Stu, if there's gonna be a Sith that didn't truly "fall" to the Dark Side, and only embraced it to save the galaxy, it would be President "Revan" Obama.

Oh and what's considered Unknown is the KotOR character's powers and strengths, not their bios. Since all we have is the cutscenes. Even then, only the canon cutscenes.

REXXXX
Even then, Revan's fall to the Dark Side was genuine, even if his motives were pure. Not to mention that in going to war with the Republic right after the Mandalorian War, he likely weakened it before the incoming invasion of the True Sith or whatever they're called.

Jamefril
OK. All that was asked is that we think about it, right? Thats what I was doing, nothing more. I wasn't impling that he didn't fall to the dark side I simply said he might not have been "evil." I know that his powers and strengths were unknown and that there is no way to prove the powers they have in the game are their actual powers. I not here to debate whats canon and whats not. I was just thinking, like we were asked to do.

Darth Maridious
The sith are evil, look at history look at the 2 main cultures the sith and empire are based off of the nazis and the romans. Some of you might say but the romans were not evil! They did do good but they also did alot of evil they had many sith like rulers for example nero, and alot of rome was drivin by war, greed, and a lust for power they would destroy anyone who didnt bend to their will or got in the way of what they wanted, they had no problem killing entire villages including women and children and also enslaved entire populations. And the nazis, do i really need to explain why they were evil?

Lord Lucien
Did you just classify an entire millennium-spanning civilization as "evil" due to the actions of a few like Nero? That's like saying "Germans are evil" because for a time during the 20th century, some of their leaders were.

Darth Maridious
Did you not read things in my post such as "they did do good" or "for example"? Im not classifying the romans as evil they accomplished a lot of good but they did do a lot of bad even under their good rulers, if you don't see the evil side of rome then you need to read up on the romans more.

Lord Lucien
Oh I saw it. But using solitary rulers as an example of "Romans being evil" is exactly like saying "Germans are evil" because they had Nazis. You wouldn't judge a kid by the actions of his father, don't judge a civilization by the actions of its dictators. Your second example is fine, but that leader one is misplaced.

Darth Maridious
I see what you mean but im not saying the actions of one man makes the romans evil let me re phrase it, nero and other roman rulers are perfect examples of how an evil person can become the ruler of a very powerful empire, just like how a sith is able to become the head of the republic and form a glactic empire.

Lord Lucien
I think it's more accurate to say that, for Rome, an insane man can be appointed the leader of a corrupt system, and for the Sith, an evil man can seize control of a corrupt system, and turn it evil.

Q99
Question, what Sith civilization is based on Romans?

The original Sith struck me as more based on Aztecs/Egyptians. Lots of pyramids, and the leaders were deified.


Most other Sith civs were either basically feudal lords, or like the Empire.

Lord Lucien
Revan's Sith? I guess... they had a lot of red. That's Roman.

Darth _Sadow1
Originally posted by Darth Plagueis
Come-on!! The DEATH Star???? Jedi don't blow planets up, killing billions of innocents......that is PURE evil!
Technically, that was Tarnkin's order. The Emperor had no hand in it. Tarnkin actually wasn't authorized to blow up Alderaan. Though in the novelization of episode VI, Palpatine was prepared to fire on Endor if needed.

Q99
Still, it's not like the Emperor built the Death Star with the intention of planets never getting blown up. He was definitely going to blow up some planets.

Darth Maridious
You say other sith civs are like the empire....do you think the galactic empire has no roman infulences? Because its almost impossible to create a fictional empire and not have some roman overtones intentional or not. Look at the emperor himself, a power hungry man who takes a republic and turns it into an empire and then is killed by one of his most trusted men......that story ring any bells? it should because it it almost the exact story of julius caeser except the emperor get to stick around a little longer.

Lord Lucien
Except Palpatine's death by Darth Brutus' hand signaled the death knell for the Galactic Empire, whereas Caesar's death by Junius Vader's (et al.) hand signaled the beginning of an even more dictatorial, centralized empire. And another civil war.


For the first time ever, the fictional variation ends with a happy note.

Q99
There's some parallels, but in a vague, 'they're both empires' sense. It's not specific roman styling, the leader-getting-killed by someone close is something that happens a lot in empires, they're fairly clearly more closely modeled off of Nazi Germany... (Yes, Hitler wasn't killed by betrayal, but it was not for lack of trying!).

Q99

BlackZero30x
Im pretty sure there are some grey areas. For insistence people that use dark side powers for good. Im pretty sure Mace Windu is one of them. Hes a good guy but iirc he could use techniques from the dark side for good without turning evil.

I always told my dad when I was growing up that if I had the force I would train to use abilities from both sides of the force and just go off on my own. If someone tried to kill me I would crush them but if someone needed help I would save them. lol

Lord Lucien
The way it's described, the Dark Side often comes off as insanity. Empathy, sympathy, compassion are all done away with, and the propagation of anger, greed, hate, and paranoia is required. It's tempting to think that it's just a matter of "making the moral choice" a la the video games, but I think a mystical force field that is activated by emotions and the mind is much hard to walk the line on, especially when certain psychological conditions are what act as the stimuli.

BlackZero30x
I can agree with that statement but as I said Mace Windu can use powers from the darkside without losing control. Im pretty sure it's Mr. Windu. To me it shows it is a possibility if its been done by a Jedi. Though granted it doesn't mean that every Jedi can do it but for those with a higher willpower/mental control would be well with in the possibility imo. Speaking of the video games. take Galen from the 1st TFU. He was actively trying to become a Jedi near the end. He had the opportunity to kill Vader in anger but instead he defends the alliance but he did it with force lighting. Taking the good side(cannon) ending into account that is.

Lord Lucien
Windu only skirted the Dark Side through Vaapad. He didn't give in to it. Both Sora Bulq and Depa Billaba couldn't resist it (there were extenuating circumstances as well, to be fair) and they fell.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.