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Who prevails?

Mace Windu duh!

Mace.

I'm going to go with Windu here, he's just incredible

sss testing Roger!Roger!

what?

malak

Mace

what?....no way....okay it's possible...but I still doubt it

Mace

Mace fo sho

Mace is a bad ass -watch yo mouth-... I have to vote the 'Du.

mace: what does master yoda look like?
malak: what?
mace: holds up saber, say what again, i dare, i double dare you mother f***er
you see what i mean...

lmao

i read why darth malak has that ridiculous thing over his mouth......tru story........now i cant give it away entirely, but if you think closely you might get it........ lets just say it has something to do with the thousands of weiners he couldnt keep out of his suck hole.

now if you were mace windu, wuld you not annihilate this s*** head?

and eat his soul

Mace.
Always bet on black.

Yeah, at least we know Mace has rhythm.

OH man, lol I was just thinking about how sweet it would have been if Travolta was a Jedi, bustin out dance moves and twirling the saber

strange very much strange.....interesting duel though that would make...oh goodness here comes another poll....travolta vs...

...Julie?

i was just joking around, it wouldn't be fair to match Travolta against them, Travolta would dance his way to victory

I was thinking Travolta versus Julie.

Travolta still wins, I'm sorry, but if you've seen Pulp Fiction and Saturday Night Fever you know that he is the man

no no no no no no no........now as cool as travolta is, no one on the face of the earth is cooler than samuel l. jackson my friends. i mean cmon.

hey interesting fact, i live in Fl and met travolta at his house, cuz my friend waxes planes at TIA and he waxed his, so i tagged along. i wish sam jackson wuld have showed up unexpectedly though.

Oh man, see this is difficult to agree with, because you're right in that Samuel L. is cooler, but can he glide across the dance floor like Travolta?

New thread.... Sam versus Travolta. Coming soon, to a forum near you.

Mace Windu wins. Malak sucked with a lightsaber (at least in my games, he could never hit me) and Mace is a Jedi Master who made his own lightsaber form. Windu wins by a landslide.

Malak wins dude.

You bumped this topic... why?

For the record, I submit that Mace Windu defeats Malak with, at most - moderate difficulty. Vaapad + Shatterpoint = one dead Malak.

Originally posted by Gideon
You bumped this topic... why?

For the record, I submit that Mace Windu defeats Malak with, at most - moderate difficulty. Vaapad + Shatterpoint = one dead Malak.

Cause I'm a n00b and because I can.

Originally posted by Noob_Krueger
Cause I'm a n00b and because I can.

You shall now serve me, and wear a Barney costume all the time...

Mace wins.

Mace will win after a long and hard fight. His Vaapad will give him the edge.

Originally posted by Gideon
You bumped this topic... why?

For the record, I submit that Mace Windu defeats Malak with, at most - moderate difficulty. Vaapad + Shatterpoint = one dead Malak.

Pretty much. And I like Malak.

I go with Mace but I think that it'll be very close.

How would this be a close fight, or even a "hard and long" one? Mace is one of the most skilled swordsmen in the history of the Jedi Order. He created Vaapad, something that Malak is neither familiar with - nor will he have a proper defense against. Mace used Vaapad's supernatural properties to overcome Sidious in a lightsaber duel (who is more powerful and more skilled than Malak), and he had Count Dooku on the run at Boz Pity (who is also more powerful and skilled than Malak).

Combine this with Shatterpoint, and I don't see it being a difficult fight at all. Mace Windu may very well be the most difficult Jedi to fight, for a Sith Lord or Dark Jedi, given his skills in Shatterpoint and Vaapad.

Originally posted by Darth_DaNThEMaN
no no no no no no no........now as cool as travolta is, no one on the face of the earth is cooler than samuel l. jackson my friends. i mean cmon.


What about Chuck Norris?

Originally posted by Gideon
How would this be a close fight, or even a "hard and long" one? Mace is one of the most skilled swordsmen in the history of the Jedi Order. He created Vaapad, something that Malak is neither familiar with - nor will he have a proper defense against. Mace used Vaapad's supernatural properties to overcome Sidious in a lightsaber duel (who is more powerful and more skilled than Malak), and he had Count Dooku on the run at Boz Pity (who is also more powerful and skilled than Malak).

Combine this with Shatterpoint, and I don't see it being a difficult fight at all. Mace Windu may very well be the most difficult Jedi to fight, for a Sith Lord or Dark Jedi, given his skills in Shatterpoint and Vaapad.
Do you remember that what Malak demonstrated on Star Forge?

A) - He toyed with those two Jedi Knights with his TK abilities and then killed both of them instantly with Choke and Light Saber Throw.

B) - Malak was a master swordsman as well.

C) - Malak demonstrated Drain knowledge, which is deadly against anything. Mace cannot defend against this.

D) - Malak has shown us more Force moves then Dooku. Believe whatever you want to but Malak > Dooku.

E) - Sidious got unbalanced due to being hit by Mace's boot. But Malak is physically very strong. He can't get unbalanced like that by a simple Boot.

Just one thing, there isn't anything that can't be blocked, I really don't see why everyone on this forum believes that moves like force drain, the amulet blasts and emerald lightning can't be blocked. There is a perfectly valid defence for all of these: force shields.

Also, in Malak's favour, he was able to completely tool two powerful jedi; he lifted both up with the force and while choking them, he blasted one with lightning and threw his lightsaber into the other, both at the same time. That displays pretty good power and control. I don't see anything Mace or Dooku have done with the force that is on par with this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you remember that what Malak demonstrated on Star Forge?

A) - He toyed with those two Jedi Knights with his TK abilities and then killed both of them instantly with Choke and Light Saber Throw.

B) - Malak was a master swordsman as well.

C) - Malak demonstrated Drain knowledge, which is deadly against anything. Mace cannot defend against this.

D) - Malak has shown us more Force moves then Dooku. Believe whatever you want to but Malak > Dooku.

E) - Sidious got unbalanced due to being hit by Mace's boot. But Malak is physically very strong. He can't get unbalanced like that by a simple Boot.

You haven't been paying attention, it would seem.

Those two Jedi Knights are nowhere near the caliber of Mace Windu. Windu invented the deadliest and most difficult lightsaber form. Yoda and the Jedi Council confirm this in his novel, Shatterpoint. Malak being a master swordsman is fine and dandy, but there's nothing that he has done that puts him on par with Windu.

Likewise, was he not powered by the Star Forge? It enhanced his abilities if I remember correctly. This isn't Star Forge-empowered Malak battling Windu.

Malak has no defense against Vaapad or Shatterpoint. He's going down, hard.

Originally posted by Gideon
You haven't been paying attention, it would seem.

Those two Jedi Knights are nowhere near the caliber of Mace Windu. Windu invented the deadliest and most difficult lightsaber form. Yoda and the Jedi Council confirm this in his novel, Shatterpoint. Malak being a master swordsman is fine and dandy, but there's nothing that he has done that puts him on par with Windu.

Likewise, was he not powered by the Star Forge? It enhanced his abilities if I remember correctly. This isn't Star Forge-empowered Malak battling Windu.

Malak has no defense against Vaapad or Shatterpoint. He's going down, hard.
Those two Jedi knights made it to Malak's position, which is a noticeable achievement. And Malak killed them both like children. Guess what? those two Jedi were no match for Malak indeed.

Also, I have said before that Mace will win (due to his Vaapad) ability.

And if this is not SF powered Malak, then Mace can will more easily. It will still be a good fight.

And if this SF powered Malak, then Mace will have lots of problems and this fight can go either ways.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Those two Jedi knights made it to Malak's position, which is a noticeable achievement. And Malak killed them both like children. Guess what? Malak is very good as well.

Also, I have said before that Mace will win (due to his Vaapad) ability.

And if this is not SF powered Malak, then Mace can will more easily. It will still be a good fight.

And if this SF powered Malak, then Mace will have lots of problems and this fight can go either ways.

Again, those two Jedi Knights are not on Windu's level of skill. Guess what? Malak is good, but Mace is much better.

This is NOT SF-powered Malak. This is regular Malak. Malak has no defense against Vaapad. No defense against Shatterpoint. And he isn't familiar with them on any level. Given that Vaapad works as a "super conductive loop" against Dark siders, what the hell is Malak gonna do?

Oh, yeah. Go down. Hard.

Originally posted by Gideon
Again, those two Jedi Knights are not on Windu's level of skill. Guess what? Malak is good, but Mace is much better.

This is NOT SF-powered Malak. This is regular Malak. Malak has no defense against Vaapad. No defense against Shatterpoint. And he isn't familiar with them on any level. Given that Vaapad works as a "super conductive loop" against Dark siders, what the hell is Malak gonna do?

Oh, yeah. Go down. Hard.
Well! if this is not SF powered Malak then I agree with your case.

Normal Malak goes down after moderate difficulty. It will be a good fight still.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well! if this is not SF powered Malak then I agree with your case.

Normal Malak goes down after moderate difficulty. It will be a good fight still.

Again, you have yet to prove why it would be a good fight.

Mace is armed with two weapons that Malak has zero familiarity with and zero defense against: Vaapad and Shatterpoint. Vaapad has an extremely effective knack for turning the strength of dark side combatants into a strength for Windu. It's how he was eventually able to overcome Sidious (who is much more powerful than Malak) in a lightsaber duel.

Malak's a "master swordsman". Big whoop. Obi-Wan was called the same thing, as was Qui-Gon Jinn. Neither of them stand a chance against Windu in combat.

If all you've got is "physical strength", then you're losing that argument, too. Mace was able to punch a guy six times in a single second. There are accounts of him defeating an army with his barehand, and he engaged in multiple physical brawls on Koruun Hal - which I highly doubt Malak'd win.

Malak's big, therefore, he must be pretty strong. Arguable, logical. But Mace has shown levels of superhuman strength due to his skill with the Force and his skill as a fighter.

Malak. Gets. Tooled.

Originally posted by Gideon
Mace is armed with two weapons that Malak has zero familiarity with and zero defense against: Vaapad and Shatterpoint. Vaapad has an extremely effective knack for turning the strength of dark side combatants into a strength for Windu. It's how he was eventually able to overcome Sidious (who is much more powerful than Malak) in a lightsaber duel.
Vaapad is what makes Mace powerful against Dark Siders and I agree with this. This is why Malak is at disadvantage but Sidious did not went down very fast and Malak will also not go down very fast. Sidious has speed while Malak has great strength.

Originally posted by Gideon
Malak's a "master swordsman". Big whoop. Obi-Wan was called the same thing, as was Qui-Gon Jinn. Neither of them stand a chance against Windu in combat.
Obi-Wan was never considered to be a master swordsman. He was very good with "Soresu" and thats it, which is a defensive technique. Whenever Obi-Wan tried to make an offensive attack, he got pawned.

Qui-Gon Jinn was also very good but he was certainly not on par with Mace and Yoda and possibly Anakin. He got pawned by Maul.

Malak is excellent at offensive attack and thus does not relies on Soresu. He was actually considered to be the 2nd best warrior after Revan among thousands of Jedi.

Originally posted by Gideon
If all you've got is "physical strength", then you're losing that argument, too. Mace was able to punch a guy six times in a single second. There are accounts of him defeating an army with his barehand, and he engaged in multiple physical brawls on Koruun Hal - which I highly doubt Malak'd win.
Yeah! in Star Wars cartoons perhaps. Malak was also physically very strong as well. He survived a damn Light Saber attack on his FACE. How many Jedi can survive a f**king Light Saber attack on their Faces that ripped the entire Jaw out?

Originally posted by Gideon
Malak's big, therefore, he must be pretty strong. Arguable, logical. But Mace has shown levels of superhuman strength due to his skill with the Force and his skill as a fighter.
No it is not argueable. Strength is a very important factor in determining that you won't tire out easily in a hard fight. Strength always adds to Power.

Malak also has shown superhuman strength by survivng and being tolerating the terrible wound on his FACE. Pure death ripped through his Face and he survived and still did very well. This is damn impressive.

Originally posted by Gideon
Malak. Gets. Tooled.
Sorry! I am not convinced.

Ok, when you can prove how Malak survived that, do let me know. Don't think his survival is due to, y'know, cybernetics and the like?

Originally posted by Gideon
Again, you have yet to prove why it would be a good fight.

Mace is armed with two weapons that Malak has zero familiarity with and zero defense against: Vaapad and Shatterpoint. Vaapad has an extremely effective knack for turning the strength of dark side combatants into a strength for Windu. It's how he was eventually able to overcome Sidious (who is much more powerful than Malak) in a lightsaber duel.

Malak's a "master swordsman". Big whoop. Obi-Wan was called the same thing, as was Qui-Gon Jinn. Neither of them stand a chance against Windu in combat.

If all you've got is "physical strength", then you're losing that argument, too. Mace was able to punch a guy six times in a single second. There are accounts of him defeating an army with his barehand, and he engaged in multiple physical brawls on Koruun Hal - which I highly doubt Malak'd win.

Malak's big, therefore, he must be pretty strong. Arguable, logical. But Mace has shown levels of superhuman strength due to his skill with the Force and his skill as a fighter.

Malak. Gets. Tooled.

1. Why is Malak not powered by the Star Forge? The thread creator didn't elaborate on which incarnation of Malak this is, and when that happens, do we not usually just assume that it is the character at his peak?

2. People blow that whole Vaapad thing out of proportion. You can't just say that Mace's form alone will give him the edge, when we can quite clearly see that he's a pretty average swordsman from the movies. Also, how did you come to the conclusion that it's somewhat expert against darksiders?

3. You don't seem to understand the whole shatterpoint technique. It's not something which Malak has zero familiarity with, Shatterpoint (the novel) indicates that most jedi know the technique; all it is, is using the force to discover weaknesses in certain situations, or people etc. The ability isn't solely available to Mace Windu, he just has a talent with it.

Also, from Shatterpoint: Situations have shatterpoints, like gems. But those of situations are fluid, ephemeral, appearing for a bare instant, vanishing again to leave no trace of their existence. They are always a function of timing. The shatterpoint technique would most likely be pretty ineffective in a battle with someone like Malak.

Please. Saying that Malak will not go down fast because Sidious didn't is pathetic. Sidious > Malak. Just because Sidious went down with difficulty does not mean that Malak will give Mace a hard time.



No. Obi-Wan was considered a master swordsmen. Period. Mace said so, and it was his whole argument for sending him after General Grievous - who managed to survive a duel with Mace himself, and who was more than a match for the vast majority of the Jedi at the time. Use common sense: because Obi-Wan is skilled with Soresu (and a master of it), he has mastered a legitimate lightsaber form. People who have mastered lightsaber form are "master swordsmen". Some are more than others.



Wrong. Obi-Wan considered Qui-Gon to be on par with most of the Council members. Just because he got "pawned" by Maul is irrelevent - Maul is a highly skilled combatant and warrior.



Great! Malak is excellent at offensive attack. That's brilliant. So was Anakin (who was more powerful than Dooku) - and he couldn't breach Obi-Wan's defense. What makes you think Malak is going to?



Wrong! Waa!

He performed several impressive physical feats in Shatterpoint - facing off against Kar Vastor (who possessed raw power on par with Yoda in the jungles of Koruun Hal). And, please. People survive amputated limbs all the time. Guess you've never watched an episode of Star Wars. Just because Malak survived the loss of his jaw means jack. Anakin lost all of his limbs and survived. Big friggen whoop.



Strength =/= power. Sidious is more powerful than Mace, but no where near as strong. Strength (coupled with speed, mind you) means that you're more likely to win a damn saber lock. You have yet to prove that Malak > Mace in strength.



No, Anakin surviving his wounds is impressive. Malak lost a jaw, which as far as I'm concerned, is about as impressive as Luke losing his hand.



Sorry! Not really caring.

Darth Malak's Profile:

From the Star Wars Databank -

See Italic line explanations below the biography.



1) Revan and Malak were heroes of the Republic. Malak, alongside his companion Revan, was able to lead the forces of the Republic and kill hundreds of Mandalorians.

2) The second italic line shows how Malak bears a similarity to Anakin Skywalker. The Jedi Council feared to use him in combat because of his power, strength, and arrogance. He was deadly in many aspects.

3) Malak suffered a lightsaber wound during his tenure as the Dark Lord. There is no one else besides Kavar who challenged Malak and lived. Kavar was one of the Order's strongest, and he was bested by Malak.

4) Malak was the Dark Lord of a very martial time of Jedi and Sith. There were many powerful Sith in the Sith Empire of Malak, but no even dared to challenge Malak because of his strength.

Now there's more references to Malak's power in Wookiepedia. However, I'm too lazy to show those.

Darth Malak, I would say, is par to ROTS Darth Tyrannus. Now, since ROTS Mace > ROTS Tyrannus, then I would say ROTS Mace > Malak by transitive.

Even then, Mace's mastery of Vapaad and his Shatterpoint allows him to win this.

Here's an argument that I've borrowed from a very intelligent person on another board, it was in a 'Malak vs Dooku' thread.

Did you not just bash the hell out of DS for "borrowing" arguments and being unoriginal?

Ah the beauty of stupidity and hypocrisy, or rather makings hit up.. You're cool nebaris/planet

Did I mention the argument came from Nebaris?

Well, let's not bash him back or waste thread-space pointing out how stupid, hypocritical, and pathetic he is acting.

However, despite his most passionate attempts, he has yet to prove (even with that accolade copied from "an intelligent person" that Malak is on par with Count Dooku - let alone "better than him by a fair margin".

And even if he is, it is irrelevent. Malak is a practitioner of the dark side of the Force - thus he is susceptible and weak to the workings of Vaapad.

Edit: Which means, what? Are you trying to excuse your hypocrisy? The only way to do that would be to admit that you and Nebaris are one in the same - which means that you're going to be banned. Either way, Nebaris was ridiculed and despised on her for his lack of ability. He's not intelligent, he's wrong.

I'm not being a hypocrite. I copy one argument, so what? The rest of mine are mostly original. Need I point out that I never looked down on DS because he copied one or two arguments, it's because all of his arguments are copied, yet he continuously tells people to 'stop copying those guys at EoD'. Sexy's the hypocrite, not me.

Anyways, in terms of the force, that one display by Malak is above anything Dooku or Windu have ever done.

Originally posted by Sexyback
I'm not being a hypocrite. I copy one argument, so what? The rest of mine are mostly original. Need I point out that I never looked down on DS because he copied one or two arguments, it's because all of his arguments are copied, yet he continuously tells people to 'stop copying those guys at EoD'. Sexy's the hypocrite, not me.

Anyways, in terms of the force, that one display by Malak is above anything Dooku or Windu have ever done.

No.

Count Dooku brought Asajj Ventress to her knees by lifting a finger.

Try again.

Edit: Don't copy other people's arguments and bash other people about it. Only makes you look more idiotic.

Man this kid is a trip. This forum has been devoid of humor lately, so that would explain why this fool is still here and not banned for incessant stupidity.

Originally posted by Gideon
No.

Count Dooku brought Asajj Ventress to her knees by lifting a finger.

Try again.

Edit: Don't copy other people's arguments and bash other people about it. Only makes you look more idiotic.

Dooku had taught Ventress everything she knew about the darkside, he would have known her weaknesses. And Dooku was on Vjun at the time, a place that increased a darksiders power by quite a bit. Doesn't quite compare.

Edit: I 'bash' Sexy for only using copied arguments, and then telling others to stop copying other people's. Burrowing one argument, when the rest are mostly my own and original is perfectly fine, especially considering I didn't actually try to pass it off as my own, and made a point in telling everyone that I burrowed it.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Did I mention the argument came from Nebaris?

Not hard to get stuff from Nebaris, for you...

Explain to me how that would affect the situation.



Poor reasoning. Vjun possesses deep strength in the dark side. Asajj - though not a Sith Lord - made use of the dark side. Thus, logically, her resistance would be that much stronger as well. And it didn't seem to hinder Yoda as much.



And I will bash you for bashing Sexy and then doing the same damn thing. Please. "Borrwed arguments"? Every taboo or believe around here is a borrowed argument. I guess Advent is a user of copied arguments in my case when it comes to Dooku vs. Anakin? Sheesh.

Copied arguments? Whoop-di-doo. You all copy arguments, get over it, Neb.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Copied arguments? Whoop-di-doo. You all copy arguments, get over it, Neb.

Well gee, seeing as he taught her, he would have been able to limit her teachings so he would always stay a step ahead of her, and always keep her under control. Really, brainpower is useful.



Nope, the reasoning is fine. The darkside only really excels when used destructively (like Dooku did), not for healing or protecting yourself, thus the increase would work much better for Dooku than it would Assaj.



Wrong! I expect more from you Gideon. Read over what I've been saying, I'm not doing the same thing that Sexy is doing. Again, brainpower is useful.



When quoting me like a b1tch, at least get it correct.



Wrong! I'm constantly bringing new things up, Lightsnake and Glentract especially do this.



1. She comes up with many original arguments despite that, such as her Kyle Katarn one.

2. She hardly copied your argument Escape, she added to it, and improved it, and argued it, much more effectively.

Just to get this straight, I never outright bashed Sexy, I only really bring it up when he actually insults me.

You really are a moron lol, you just keep digging yourself deeper. Stop typing fool.

Guess what Rex?
SEXY IS A SOCK!
Why the hell does he get special treatment over me, when he's clearly a sock, and he constantly trolls.

As far as the darkside goes, i was always under the impression that there was just..."the force" and how you used it, dictated if it was light or dark. So like, a Jedi isn't limited from performing lightning, they just don't do it being as its not in their nature, most notably, Yoda must know how to do it if he can redirect it then absorb it. Which also means, if a Sith needed to heal or protect themselves, they would in fact be able to do so, since its just "the force". I don't know if i articulated that the way I'm thinking it, but hopefully it came out right.

Of course he did that, lol. The point is, how would that have been such a major factor in what he did, when the "obvious" answer is that his power simply excelled hers. So, prove that Malak would not fall victim to that same attack.



No. Shadows of the Empire makes it clear that Vader was able to partially heal and regenerate from his wounds on Mustafar using the dark side of the Force - his hatred. That pretty much just wasted your argument.



I have, lol. Rex, Sexy, and myself all consider you to be inept, deceptive (though you fail miserably), and hypocritical.



Lmao, of course.



Wrong! Waaa!

Unlike what Lightsnake and Glentract "have brought up", your submissions are pretty much worthless. Sorry to break it to you.



Again, since she "borrowed" it, she must be unoriginal. Not.



Wrong! Prove it! Waaa!

1. Malak is far stronger in the force than Assaj, and clearly above Dooku too.

2. Dooku would not be receiving the power boost that he did from Vjun.



No, it didn't. I never said that it was impossible to heal and protect yourself through the darkside, I was just saying that the dark side only excels when used offensively, so the boost would be much more beneficial to Dooku than it would be to Assaj, as in this scenario, she would be using the force to defend herself.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
As far as the darkside goes, i was always under the impression that there was just..."the force" and how you used it, dictated if it was light or dark. So like, a Jedi isn't limited from performing lightning, they just don't do it being as its not in their nature, most notably, Yoda must know how to do it if he can redirect it then absorb it. Which also means, if a Sith needed to heal or protect themselves, they would in fact be able to do so, since its just "the force". I don't know if i articulated that the way I'm thinking it, but hopefully it came out right.

No you articulated it fine, the thing is, when using the darkside, it only excels when used offensively, PoD makes this clear.

No! Wrong! Prove it! Waa!



Again, who said it was just from the power boost? Assaj is a dark side user as well, and a potent one. She would have inherited the same "power boost" that Dooku did.



Again: not impossible. And considering how Vader was able to partially heal medically irreversible damage to his body, I don't see why Assaj wouldn't be capable of doing the same thing - unless Dooku's own power eclipses hers (which is the same scenario with Malak).

can you provide the quote? Not meaning that as in i don't believe you, just want to hear how its stated.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
can you provide the quote? Not meaning that as in i don't believe you, just want to hear how its stated.

Considering how constant he exaggerates in favor of his characters and arguments, that's a wise decision.

For all its power, the dark side was weak in defending yourself and the healing arts.

The point, Escape, is that the dark side is used more effectively when used offensively, so the power boost for Assaj wouldn't have been as beneficial as it would have been for Dooku.

Originally posted by Sexyback
For all its power, the dark side was weak in defending yourself and the healing arts.

The point, Escape, is that the dark side is used more effectively when used offensively, so the power boost for Assaj wouldn't have been as beneficial as it would have been for Dooku.

We know that this is not the case, sadly. Much like the whole Vaapad incident, it would seem that the author is very much attempting to conflict with prior accepted canon. Vader - didn't you say "he sucks"? - was able to make outrageous progress with his wounds from Mustafar through sheer hatred, concentration, and likely technique taught from Sidious. And he wasn't a Sith master, or a master of the dark side on par with Sidious.

Defending one's self? You may have a point. In healing arts? No, you don't. Again: prove that Malak will be able to resist such an attack.

1. Even if your argument was correct, it wouldn't actually affect the relevant argument, as healing has nothing to do with the Assaj-Dooku incident, only defence against the force.

2. I never said vader sucked in the force.

3. What you don't seem to get is that I never said it was impossible for a sith to heal themselves, or even impossible for them to do so effectively, but as good as they are at doing it, they'll only be better at using the force offensively.



You're ridiculous. I can just switch it around, and ask you to prove that Dooku can defend against what Malak did to those two jedi. The fact is, those two incidents are the most impressive displays of the force we have seen from either of them, and Malak's feat is more impressive, therefor it's logical to come to the conclusion that Malak is more powerful with the force, and that's sufficient evidence to say that Dooku wouldn't be able to tool him with the force like he did Assaj. So I'm sorry, but you fail.

No. Bringing a powerful Force user to their knees with the lift of a finger is far more potent than anything Malak did when empowered by the Star Forge.

Sorry, you fail. Period.

1. Dooku did the feat on Vjun, where his powers were increased.

2. Dooku was Assaj's master, he had taught her everything about the darkside, logic points to him wanting to limit what he taught her so he would always be a step above her, and so he would be able to keep her under control, he clearly would have known her weaknesses.

3. Since when was Assaj ever an above average force user?

4. Malak's feat itself is more impressive anyway; lifting two jedi up while choking them, and blasting one with lightning whilst chucking his lightsaber into the other.

5. The jedi Malak tooled must have been very powerful; Vandar stated that only the best knights available were being sent there, and to make it as far as they did is very impressive, they fought through most of the SF.

6. YOU FAIL!!

Lmao. Sure...

You can sit here all day and say Malak's feat was more impressive. But that just doesn't cut it... especially when he was empowered by the Star Forge in the first place. Those two Jedi aren't as strong as Assaj, so... yeah.

You fail! ... just doesn't cut it, man.

In the force, i's debatable...
And Malak's always powered by the SF, no matter where he is, so as unfair an advantage it is, it doesn't really matter.

Originally posted by Gideon
Please. Saying that Malak will not go down fast because Sidious didn't is pathetic. Sidious > Malak. Just because Sidious went down with difficulty does not mean that Malak will give Mace a hard time.
Malak has Draining abilities and Strength. He will definately last long.

Their is no proof that Mace can defend against a Drain attack.

Originally posted by Gideon
No. Obi-Wan was considered a master swordsmen. Period. Mace said so, and it was his whole argument for sending him after General Grievous - who managed to survive a duel with Mace himself, and who was more than a match for the vast majority of the Jedi at the time. Use common sense: because Obi-Wan is skilled with Soresu (and a master of it), he has mastered a legitimate lightsaber form. People who have mastered lightsaber form are "master swordsmen". Some are more than others.
No! he was not considered to be a Master Swordsman. He was highly respected due to him being a reponsible, sensible and experienced Jedi. Thats it.

Mace send him because he clearly said that he needs someone with more experience. Obi-Wan was indeed more experienced then Anakin and Grevious was not an easy challenge to handle.

Being master of "Soresu" does not makes you a master swordsman, unless you are very good in an offensive Saber Form. A master swordsman should be good at both defensive and offensive fighting styles.

Malak was more of master swordsman then him.

Originally posted by Gideon
Wrong. Obi-Wan considered Qui-Gon to be on par with most of the Council members. Just because he got "pawned" by Maul is irrelevent - Maul is a highly skilled combatant and warrior.
Gui Gon was indeed a powerful Jedi but he was defeated by Maul. We judge the power of a Jedi from his achievements and not just opinions. Malak > Maul.

Originally posted by Gideon
Great! Malak is excellent at offensive attack. That's brilliant. So was Anakin (who was more powerful than Dooku) - and he couldn't breach Obi-Wan's defense. What makes you think Malak is going to?
Anakin was indeed more of master swordsman then Obi-Wan because he achieved something. He brought Dooku on his knees with his Saber Skills. Now! Obi-Wan could not achieve this or could he?

And please! don't bring Obi-Wan vs Anakin showdown in this case. We all know very well that why Anakin failed in that fight.

Malak's offensive abilities are excellent. He was known to recklessly charge in to fights and win.

And Obi-Wan will loose to Malak because Malak has demonstrated more Force moves then Dooku. I have already mentioned some of the impressive things that Malak has demonstrated. Obi-Wan is not even close.

Originally posted by Gideon
He performed several impressive physical feats in Shatterpoint - facing off against Kar Vastor (who possessed raw power on par with Yoda in the jungles of Koruun Hal). And, please. People survive amputated limbs all the time. Guess you've never watched an episode of Star Wars. Just because Malak survived the loss of his jaw means jack. Anakin lost all of his limbs and survived. Big friggen whoop.
Horrible damage to the Face is much more deadly then loosing legs and hands. Ask a Doctor and he will tell you.

Originally posted by Gideon
Strength =/= power. Sidious is more powerful than Mace, but no where near as strong. Strength (coupled with speed, mind you) means that you're more likely to win a damn saber lock. You have yet to prove that Malak > Mace in strength.
Strength contributes to Power. Sidious got unbalanced by boot of Mace because he was not physically strong enough to tolerate that hit. But Malak will not get unbalanced by this hit because he is physically very strong.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, Anakin surviving his wounds is impressive. Malak lost a jaw, which as far as I'm concerned, is about as impressive as Luke losing his hand.

Are you naive or something?

Loosing an entire Jaw is much more painful then loosing a hand. Cut your Jaw out and you will be dead instantly. But cut your hand out and you would survive. Their is hell of a difference between these two wounds.

Originally posted by Gideon
Sorry! Not really caring.
So do I.

I doubt the malak would be able to drain mace windu, and since this isnt a powerful version im sure mace can hold up resistance.

And malak will only be able to strike with the force once they are far apart, not during a duel and dont forget mace windu has a dark side power : force crush which malak doesnt have a shield to block.

In swordplay alone malak may be good with the saber but we dont know his form and we do know vaapad triumphs over dark siders

Originally posted by Kadesh
I doubt the malak would be able to drain mace windu, and since this isnt a powerful version im sure mace can hold up resistance.

And malak will only be able to strike with the force once they are far apart, not during a duel and dont forget mace windu has a dark side power : force crush which malak doesnt have a shield to block.

In swordplay alone malak may be good with the saber but we dont know his form and we do know vaapad triumphs over dark siders
I respect your opinion but somethings should be clear.

Drain attack is something that cannot be deflected back. It drains the life out of an individual. We are not sure that how Mace will do against this kind of attack.

Another problem is that we don't know that this is SF powered Malak or not. The thread starter never indicated on this.

And you are right that Vaapad will give Mace the ultimate edge in combat. Mace will win.

What I am actually saying is that Malak will not be an easy challenge but some are trying to say that Mace will easily destroy Malak, which is not true.

i agree with you on that part, malak despite being a tough guy wont get crushed so easily

FFS, the drain is not inviolate. IT's blockable with simple 'force immunity' apparently and Mace's Vaapad will reflect just about anything. No matter what Malak this is, Mace kills him with minimal difficulty.

Minimal difficulty? I think not. Stop saying "vaapad can block anything" or "all you need is force immunity" lightsnake. You are just making shit up and your dislike for KOTOR is apparent. Mace would win a saber duel, Malak would win a force duel.

In a fore duel? Oh, please. Vaapad is made to reflect just about any Dark Side power and Mace would walk over Malak's sorry ass no matter what the circumstance.

Vaapad is made to reflect dark side power? LOL.. Since when? I guess that means Mace will throw Kun's amulet blast back at him, Nihilus' force drain, a force crush/force choke.. Oh but he was losing his grip on Sidious force lightning. Right lightsnake. Next, explain to me how Vaapad which reflects a saber form, reflects dark side power. In fact show me a source other than bullshit.

Vaapad creates a superconducting loop that literally repels the Dark Side since....ever.

How about, I dunno....the movie? the lightning was reflecting because of that loop.

Yes but there must be a limit to Vapaad. If the Dark Side power is too overwhelming for the user of Vapaad, then he would be unable to create the superconducting loop, otherwise as Sexy has put it, Windu can reflect almost any Dark Side technique.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Yes but there must be a limit to Vapaad. If the Dark Side power is too overwhelming for the user of Vapaad, then he would be unable to create the superconducting loop, otherwise as Sexy has put it, Windu can reflect almost any Dark Side technique.


Exactly lightsnake. It doesn't DEFLECT all darkside power, it deflects whatever Mace is strong enough to deflect. You're not going to see Mace reflect a Force Storm with his Vaapad, nor a Kun amulet blast, nor many other techniques, so it's pointless to use this in an argument and claim it can do anything.

I'm sorry, is there another word for a superconducting loop that redirects dark side energy?

And btw: A force storm is not a straight blast of energy, try a smart example

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm sorry, is there another word for a superconducting loop that redirects dark side energy?

And btw: A force storm is not a straight blast of energy, try a smart example
What proof do you have that Vaapad can deflect a Drain attack?

Do you know that how Drain works? It is not like Force Lightning or something that can be deflected.

It starts draining the life of an individual.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm sorry, is there another word for a superconducting loop that redirects dark side energy?

And btw: A force storm is not a straight blast of energy, try a smart example

But lightsnake, you just said it can repel any darkside attacks. SO which one is it, before I try a "smart" example.

A 'Dark Side attack' originates with the user....A Force Storm is hardly a direct attack in the same way lightning or drain.

You said a dark side attack. You are saying Vaapad can deflect any dark side attack, starting with the person. Prove it.

Sure: Vaapad, as stated, forms a superconducting loop between the two combatants. As exemplified with Palpatine and the lightning

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sure: Vaapad, as stated, forms a superconducting loop between the two combatants. As exemplified with Palpatine and the lightning


This is your proof that Vaapad can stop all direct force attacks? Wow, I think I'll go with the more logical deduction of Mace being able to stop something that's not more powerful than himself. Aka he won't be able to stop a force drain..

Ok, Plpatine's stronger in the force than Mace and he was still redirected, anyways.
nd Malak doesn't even scratch Palpatine

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ok, Plpatine's stronger in the force than Mace and he was still redirected, anyways.
nd Malak doesn't even scratch Palpatine
Palpatine used Force Lightning against Mace, which got reflected back at him.

Malak knows Force Drain as well. And Force Drain is not like Force Lightning. It starts consuming life of intended victims as soon as it is launched at the victim.

Malak can stun individuals as well. What you have to say about this?

It still has to lash out at the victim. Vaapad would prevent a direct assault on Mace with a darkside power.

And wow, Malak can stun people. Ok, how about Mace force crushes his sorry ass before he can? And when's Malak stunned someone as strong as Mace?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It still has to lash out at the victim. Vaapad would prevent a direct assault on Mace with a darkside power.

And wow, Malak can stun people. Ok, how about Mace force crushes his sorry ass before he can? And when's Malak stunned someone as strong as Mace?
Don't forget that Malak has very good defensive abilities. He was almost immune to most of the Force attacks.

And he stunned Revan on Leviathan. Now what you will have to say?

in gameplay, yes. But if we take gameplay, then we can change a lot of things.

And Revan had hardly achieved his full abilities by the Leviathan.He hadn't even remember who he was. Malak couldn't do the same by the Star Forge, could he?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
in gameplay, yes. But if we take gameplay, then we can change a lot of things.

And Revan had hardly achieved his full abilities by the Leviathan.He hadn't even remember who he was. Malak couldn't do the same by the Star Forge, could he?
I agree that Revan on Star Forge was far more powerful then before. But so was Malak as well.

The fight on Leviathan happened after the revelation. And on Leviathan, Revan made Malak run in to a different location after over-powering him in a Saber Duel.

But Malak had demonstrated some impressive Force moves on even Leviathan like Force Whirlwind, Stunning Multiple Targets at the same time, Deflecting Light Saber Throw etc.

And it was due to Bastilla that Revan and Carth had the chance to escape.

Malak was not easy even on Leviathan. Game Mechanics had messed that fight up. He alone was fighting against 3 powerful individuals on Leviathan on his own terms. And simply toyed with Bastilla and Carth.

Once again: These aren't significant or unique force powers. By the point of the Starforge, Revan has grown exponentially in power, much greater than Leviathan. A normal Malak would've been slaughtered.
And Mace is strong enough to physically punch straight through durasteel and damn fast as well. In the Force, he was only behind Yoda.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Once again: These aren't significant or unique force powers. By the point of the Starforge, Revan has grown exponentially in power, much greater than Leviathan. A normal Malak would've been slaughtered.
And Mace is strong enough to physically punch straight through durasteel and damn fast as well. In the Force, he was only behind Yoda.
I agee that Revan on Star Forge was far more powerful then before. He easily became among the most powerful Jedi of all times.

Mace is also among the best.

Regular Malak will be perhaps an easy fight for him. After-all he brought Sidious to his knees in a short fight.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ok, Plpatine's stronger in the force than Mace and he was still redirected, anyways.
nd Malak doesn't even scratch Palpatine


You must have missed the part where Mace was losiing control of the lightning. Not to mention Vaapad isn't going to stop a force drain since it's not that type of 'direct attack'. So Mace blocking a force drain is nothing but speculation. It seems to be that you lose all abilities to debate logically when the KOTOR and the PT eras are involved. Mace as able to force crush Grievous, wow. Lets see him crush a powerful jedi/sith. Your argument fails when you institute the "well this guy can do A, B, and C attacks easily".

Force drain is very direct: It siphons the energy of, in this case, one person and focuses on them entirely.
And Malak isn't as strong as Mace, that's pretty damn obvious.
By the PT times, Malak would be absolutely nothing to the prime warriors.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Force drain is very direct: It siphons the energy of, in this case, one person and focuses on them entirely.
And Malak isn't as strong as Mace, that's pretty damn obvious.
By the PT times, Malak would be absolutely nothing to the prime warriors.


1. Speculation, speculation, and speculation. I won't even dissect your ridiculous "Nobody compares to the PT Jedi" crap.
2. so youre saying Mace's Vaapad will stop Nihilus' force drain? Lets just go back to reality where all Mace's "vaapad" can do is temporarily stop force lightning. But hey, Obiwan did that with Dooku's force lightning too. So what is your point besides you have no evidence that Vaapad can stop any force abilities.

1. Take it up with George, k? K.
2. Umm...yeah, exactly what I'm saying. Prove that's all it can do or stop talking. Oh, btw, Obi-wan did not form a loop, nor did he deflect FL.
read Shatterpoint or the ROTS novelization and then get back to me

Sorry to interrupt, but please. Palpatine flashed only a taste of his Lightning (he was trying to show Anakin how weak he was), and itself nearly overwhelmed Windu. When Palpatine went all out, Mace was thrown miles into the Coruscant skyline. Mace's Vapaad only lasted to the power of Sidious's extremely weakened Lightning attack.

You forgot how Mace is unable to defend against the second barrage by virtue of missing a hand

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. Take it up with George, k? K.
2. Umm...yeah, exactly what I'm saying. Prove that's all it can do or stop talking. Oh, btw, Obi-wan did not form a loop, nor did he deflect FL.
read Shatterpoint or the ROTS novelization and then get back to me


1. There's nothing to take up with George, because you're making shit up and speculating in favor of the PT Jedi. Try again.

2. And yes, Obiwan did reflect Dooku's lightning in AOTC, unless you want to argue against movies. That should destroy your already weak argument.

1. http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/bts/me1/6.html
Love you, George
2. Where did he deflect it? Point me to one instance. Just one

Lightsnake, that's in respect to choreography, and is comparing the PT to OT, only.

We've heard this song from you before.

You're still wrong.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. http://www.starwars.com/episode-i/bts/me1/6.html
Love you, George
2. Where did he deflect it? Point me to one instance. Just one


You have got to be kidding. This is evidence that Mace>Malak or that Mace can block dark side powers? Wow lightsnake, I always make fun of planet/nebaris, but you take PT fanboyism to a whole new level where logic doesn't exist. Now please, either add a cogent argument or add nothing at all, because you've yet to make a point.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Lightsnake, that's in respect to choreography, and is comparing the PT to OT, only.

I agree with Lightsnake, Planet. Provide proof as to why Lucas made this statement only in regards to choreography, and not in their overall skill. That he calls it "the Prime of the Jedi" seems to imply an open and shut case.

You have an irritating habit of demonizing and running for cover.

Read Shatterpoint and the ROTS novelization. There's nothing more to say

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You have an irritating habit of demonizing and running for cover.

Read Shatterpoint and the ROTS novelization. There's nothing more to say


You have an irritating habit of arguing the truth and exaggerating whatever you're a fan of. Obi wan blocks Dooku's lightning in AOTC. Saying "The PT Jedi own" has no bearing on Malak vs. Mace. Saying Mace's vaapad can block all dark side techniques makes no sense. The end. You have no point. Stop crying about it too, otherwise I will treat you like I treat Planet/Nebaris.

Where does Obi-wan re-direct the lightning?
Where the hell are you misinterpreting me? Vaapad forms a loop between the other contender and Mace, effectively redirecting their powers

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Where does Obi-wan re-direct the lightning?
Where the hell are you misinterpreting me? Vaapad forms a loop between the other contender and Mace, effectively redirecting their powers

Did you miss the part where Obi Wan blocks the lightning with his saber? Or did you ignore it? Also, you said Mace's Vaapad can block direct dark side attacks. It held off force lightning for a bit, but since when does blocking attack X entail blocking attack Y, especially something like a force drain, or a force choke. Stop using Vaapad as justification for absolutely nothing.

He BLOCKED IT. He did not REDIRECT it, there are two VERY different things...

What exactly does it matter lightsnake? What is your point?

You're seriously missing it?

Sexy, I disagree.

Vaapad is a super conductive loop. It is able to turn dark side energy into a weapon for Mace to use. That is how Mace circumvented Sidious's lightning to attack him; and Sidious kept generating it by feeding the lightning with the pain of being blasted.

Mace was in no danger of being electrocuted, however. The only danger he was in was that Sidious was sufficiently powerful enough to force (no pun intended) Mace's own lightsaber back in his face.

It is possible, as I said before, that Mace may be the hardest opponent for a dark side user to face other than Luke or Sidious himself. And Lightsnake is also correct, Mace's strength very well seems to surpass Malak's own - he's performed feats that not even Grievous can replicate. Malak has not been seen punching a guy as hard or as fast as Mace can.

Mace's style is deadlier than Malak's own - it is the deadliest. Mace has no defense against it, and he can't replicate or defeat Shatterpoint.

Malak's not going to win.

Yes, I'm missing your point about how Mace>Malak because the PT Jedi are as a whole better than the KOTOR Jedi, and how Mace's Vaapad can supposedly block all dark side techniques, or at least the specific ones you claim.

That was never my complete argument.
The entire point of Vaapad is Mace is able to redirect and channel Dark Side energy

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What exactly does it matter lightsnake? What is your point?

What Obi-Wan did and what Mace did are two completely different things. Obi-Wan "blocked" and "absorbed" Count Dooku's Force lightning. Mace can "block", "absorb", and then "redirect" dark side powers - like Yoda did with Count Dooku's lightning. Mace can do this thanks to Vaapad. Obi-Wan is not trained in Vaapad, he can't redirect dark side energy.

Originally posted by Gideon
Sexy, I disagree.

Vaapad is a super conductive loop. It is able to turn dark side energy into a weapon for Mace to use. That is how Mace circumvented Sidious's lightning to attack him; and Sidious kept generating it by feeding the lightning with the pain of being blasted.

Mace was in no danger of being electrocuted, however. The only danger he was in was that Sidious was sufficiently powerful enough to force (no pun intended) Mace's own lightsaber back in his face.

It is possible, as I said before, that Mace may be the hardest opponent for a dark side user to face other than Luke or Sidious himself. And Lightsnake is also correct, Mace's strength very well seems to surpass Malak's own - he's performed feats that not even Grievous can replicate. Malak has not been seen punching a guy as hard or as fast as Mace can.

Mace's style is deadlier than Malak's own - it is the deadliest. Mace has no defense against it, and he can't replicate or defeat Shatterpoint.

Malak's not going to win.


My argument isn't whether or not Malak is going to win, because we know he's not. My argument is how lightsnake comes to that conclusion adding the "PT Jedi own", and stating Mace can block/deflect all dark side techniques back. I don't see you sitting there and arguing that Mace can deflect a force drain, or at least one on the level of Nihilus, or Kun's amulet blasts.

I really wish those overrated amulet blasts would go away, or at least show a scene where they're totally useless on a Jedi Master or Sith Lord

Do you even understand the nature of the amulet blasts lightsnake, or is that more anti KOTOR bias? I won't even get into your ridiculous speculation.

FFS, just because they're used to make the Gary Stu more speshul doesn't mean theyr'e unbeatable and if authors didn't try to ignore KJA's idiocy, they'd be renedered defunct long back.

You've no idea how other people in the setting really, really dislike KJA.

Originally posted by Gideon
What Obi-Wan did and what Mace did are two completely different things. Obi-Wan "blocked" and "absorbed" Count Dooku's Force lightning. Mace can "block", "absorb", and then "redirect" dark side powers - like Yoda did with Count Dooku's lightning. Mace can do this thanks to Vaapad. Obi-Wan is not trained in Vaapad, he can't redirect dark side energy.

Sexy, read this, please. And you two should appreciate Christmas and be nice for one night. I'm off to watch Bad Santa.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
FFS, just because they're used to make the Gary Stu more speshul doesn't mean theyr'e unbeatable and if authors didn't try to ignore KJA's idiocy, they'd be renedered defunct long back.

You've no idea how other people in the setting really, really dislike KJA.

Who cares what people think of KJA lightsnake? I think you REALLY should snap back into reality and concentrate more on it, than on what people think of what author who made up what story. Everyone has their own opinions and your speculations are nothing more but KOTOR hatred.

We're JEwish

Originally posted by Gideon
Sexy, read this, please. And you two should appreciate Christmas and be nice for one night. I'm off to watch Bad Santa.


Yes, we're Jewish Escape, but that's ok, nobody's perfect

I swear most Jewish people celebrate Christmas anyway?

No, we prefer to stay away from pagan holidays.

Hannakaha.

Hannukah>Christmas anyways.

Christmas celebrates a weird birth. Hannukah? An epic battle.

LOL.. Amen.. Not to mention Jesus was born somewhere around April. But thank g-d for good old hallmark.

Lol! Calling the birth of Jesus 'weird' would be pretty offensive to Cmen.

April?
Rumour has it it was December 25th.

No no, it's common knowledge Jesus was born sometime in April.

Yeah, the early Christians decides to make it on that day to ease Pagans into conversion more easily

yea, same goes for easter.

It's true, Jesus was not born in December. He was born in a warmer season.

Whoa, Windu was nearly overwhelmed by Sidious's taste of Lightning. How the hell is he going to survive with an all out blast coming at him? By Vapaad? C'mon people, Vapaad has to have a limit. The probably theory would be that it will cause a superconducting loop to a Dark Side attack the user has the power to reflect. I mean, if Sidious fried a Force Storm at Windu, he would be able to reflect it even though he was nearlt fried by a taste of Palp's Lightning? That makes no sense.