Simon of Cyrene and the Great Deception....

Just done a forum search, and no mention of Simon of Cyrene... whom the Muslims believe was the man crucified in Jesus's place.... the story is as follows...

Jesus, hearing he is to be crucified, asks Simon of Cyrene, one of his many disciples, to impersonate him, be captured by the romans and put o trial while jesus makes his getaway... the deal being that once jesus is well away, the other disciples will stage an uprising and free Simon... Simon agrees... the uprising never happens, and Simon gets crucified... everyone thinks it's Jesus on the cross, so imagine their surprise when he seems to Rise From the Dead...

This story answers many questions about the new testament version of events... for example, if jesus is so famous and wanted by the authorities, why does Judas have to identify him... answer: jesus's face is not that well known... Simon looks similar, and judas's kiss is used to make sure the romans arrest the correct (ie wrong!) man...Why, when on the cross, does jesus shout "my lord, why have you forsaken me?" If Jesus expects to be crucified and rise from the dead, then his crucifixion is not a case of god forsaking him... if, however, poor Simon is nailed to a cross, vainly waiting for a rescue mission, the words make perfect sense.... and of course it solves that tricky one about rising from the dead....

Interesting...

It also puzzled me when Jesus said "My God why have you forsaken me."

I've never heard the story of the wrong man crucified though. It's a Muslim story??

Jesus said those words right before Death when he, at that moment took on every sin in the world! For that one moment he was a sinner!

I realize that, but wouldn't He of known. Why would He say THOSE words?

I think there is more to this story then beats the eye.Becaues something is missing from it.JM

beats the eye????

^ Haven't you ever beat your eye?

no, I aint into self inflicted harm 😄

in the Koran it explicitlty states of Jesus, "some say he was crucified, and rose from death, but it is not so... another was killed in his place.."

The Gospel of john, however, written fifty years after in an attempt to appeal to the Greek and other mystics, has jesus say instead, simply, "It is ended..."

wouldn't the Koran profit with it to take down the story and claim Jesus as not being the son of a god? gives their story more chances to "lure" the christians to them

and as far as I know, Simon of Cyrene is someone passing by who was ordened to carry the cross
(Matthew 27:31-32 ; Mark 15:20-21 & Luke 23:26)

wouldn't the Koran profit with it to take down the story and claim Jesus as not being the son of a god? gives their story more chances to "lure" the christians to them

indeed, but by claiming he "cheated" with the crucifiction, some christians might get disappointed and switch over to the islam?

indeed, but by claiming he "cheated" with the crucifiction, some christians might get disappointed and switch over to the islam?

The words "it is Finished" refer to the fact that the new covenant was started upon Jesus dying and taking on All sins in the world. When he cried Father why has thou forsaken me! That was the human part of Jesus talking to the Spirit at the exact moment he took on all of our sins in his human form. The new covenant being the total washing away of sis by the Blood of Jesus, as opposed tothe old law of having your sins pushed forward by the blood of an unblemished animal. I am really shocked, but not at all surprised by the number of people trying to discredit Jesus! He died for all of us! At least there is real proof He existed as opposed to a lot of myths most people would rather follow! As for me, I have had too man spiritual and physical expereinces from My Lord, not to mention supernatural happenings and prayers answered! I have to have proof before I believe anything May Jesus Bless all of you!

Originally posted by finti
well that will mean you take the word of the koran over that of the bible, if that is the case your faith obviously dont lie with the bible so..........

Originally posted by vicki horvath
The words "it is Finished" refer to the fact that the new covenant was started upon Jesus dying and taking on All sins in the world. When he cried Father why has thou forsaken me! That was the human part of Jesus talking to the Spirit at the exact moment he took on all of our sins in his human form. The new covenant being the total washing away of sis by the Blood of Jesus, as opposed tothe old law of having your sins pushed forward by the blood of an unblemished animal. I am really shocked, but not at all surprised by the number of people trying to discredit Jesus! He died for all of us! At least there is real proof He existed as opposed to a lot of myths most people would rather follow! As for me, I have had too man spiritual and physical expereinces from My Lord, not to mention supernatural happenings and prayers answered! I have to have proof before I believe anything May Jesus Bless all of you!

Funnily enough, to the early church, the death of Jesus through crucifixion was simply a sign that people could believe what he said.... "The End is Nigh," he said... "if you don't believe me, then look: I'll say now I'll rise from the dead... if I'm not lying about that, you'll know I'm not lying about the other stuff..." The idea of Jesus "dying for our sins" dates to a couple of hundred years afterwards, when Christianity had to compete with other Mystery religions.... in most of those, the initiate had to undergo some sort of trial or ordeal... Christianity said, "join us... the ordeal was gone through by some other bloke... we're a lot less painful..."

Also in some mystery religions, converts were actually covered by the blood of an actual lamb. Real blood.

My God why have you forsaken me.

Ive read that it was because God left him as he took upon himself all the sins of man.

But wouldn't Jesus know that? Why would he ask God "why are you turning me away" kind of question? I've also learned the same as you, that God couldn't even look at Jesus because He was so full of the worlds sin.

Originally posted by debbiejo
But wouldn't Jesus know that? Why would he ask God "why are you turning me away" kind of question? I've also learned the same as you, that God couldn't even look at Jesus because He was so full of the worlds sin.

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?
O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.