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Let's forget about the expanded universe for a minute...
Focusing on the movies...


In The Phantom Menace (the movie!) we know very little about Darth Maul. He's Sidious' apprentice. That's it. He is a mystery.

Now In Episode II we learn A jedi Master named Sifo Dyas ordered the clone army. Sifo Dyas died ten years before Attack Of the Clones so he died during the events of The Phantom Menace.

Now...
Skip to Episode III. As revealed in the REVENGE OF THE SITH novel (go to MF.com's forums for that), Palps tells Anakin that his old apprentice was Jedi Master Sifo Dyas, the one to order the Clone Army. Sifo Dyas died during The Phantom Menace. He died before Count Dooku joined up with Sidious. He died when Maul died.

So...

Remembering what Yoda said about "Only two there are" doesn't it make sense that Darth Maul is a fallen Jedi?

Maul is Sifo-Dyas.

Hm, they said Sifo-Dyas was on the council though. So that could not be possible

NO

He "WAS" on the council. But he died during Phantom Menace. Obviously he left the order if he joined the SITH which is fact now.

I'm guessing he's unrecognizeable being tattooed head to toe like he is.

I don't think he is tattooed is he, he's a different creature.

Here's the Dialogue found that's from the movie...
---------------------------

PALPATINE: " It is unavoidable Anakin. it is your destiny"

ANAKIN: " I know master... but it's just hard, the jedi have been like family to me... especially Obi-Wan"

PALPATINE: "Do not let your emotions blind you to the truth Anakin. They used you and deceived you and now... they have betrayed you"

ANAKIN: "Your right. I am sorry master. I know I should not argue with you"

PALPATINE: "Do not worry Anakin, you remind me of myself when I was your age. You also remind me of my old apprentice... Jedi master Sifo Dyas"

ANAKIN: (shocked) "Sifo Dyas? But he was a leading member of the jedi council... one of the best in the order!"

PALPATINE: "So are you Anakin... so are you."

----------------

PS: Maul is a creature. He's just a tattood creature.

Originally posted by LandoSpeeder2
I don't think he is tattooed is he, he's a different creature.

Nein, those are tattoos, LSD...I mean...LS2.

Darth Maul is the same species as Jedi Master Eeth Koth of the Jedi Council.

well, it's already official that Darth Maul's been trained by Sidious since he was a child and that his name is Kahmeir Sarin, not Sifo Dias.

that is one of the most unfunny names ever

Originally posted by Darth Jello
well, it's already official that Darth Maul's been trained by Sidious since he was a child and that his name is Kahmeir Sarin, not Sifo Dias.

Never seen that before (the name). Where did you find that?

Maul is not Sifo Dias. The Jedi Master was never a Zabrak, and Maul was never a Jedi. Plain and simple.

thinking along the lines that Sifo Dias was on the Council during ep. 1 should he have been in the scene with the Council in said episode? If he wasn't then was there an empty seat during that scene?

We all have to remember that Lucas made all this as he went along....
...so there will be discepencies.

has anyone ever thought to LIE?

Maul,Dooku,Palpatine could walk into the cloning facility claiming to be Master Sifo Dias.
Sifo Dias was ment to be one of the top jedis right? Well if he suggested there be a clone army made then it might persuade some of the other masters to agree.
Get what im saying?

Somewhat....
I'm pretty sure Lucas meant Dooku to have ordered the Clones under the guise of Sifo Dyas....Stover may have taken some liberties while writing the Novelization - or the person who posted that could have just been lying....

Originally posted by DCLXVI
Somewhat....
I'm pretty sure Lucas meant Dooku to have ordered the Clones under the guise of Sifo Dyas


Tis what I think as well.

Darth Maul and Sifo-Dyas aren't same person

Even if Sifo-Dyas was an apprentice of Palpatine's, Dooku killed him to take his place.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
well, it's already official that Darth Maul's been trained by Sidious since he was a child and that his name is Kahmeir Sarin, not Sifo Dias.

Wow, that sounds a lot like EXPANDED UNIVERSE TO ME.

but...
IN THE MOVIE MAUL'S A MYSTERY.

Sifo Dyas "WAS" on the council. He died during Phantom Menace though. Obviously he must have left the council, probably before that Naboo crap happened.

But expanded universe...
*shudder*

I don't know...

Remember when people thought Owen was Obiwan's brother?
Expanded Universe means nothing to me.

He could have been killed by dooku while those events were taking place on naboo at the sametime who knows just another mystery for starwars.

Didn't Lucas say that the person who ordered the clones was on-screen in AOTC? My money's on Dooku.

Could Sifo Dias have been Qui Gon? He died. He didn't disappear like a normal Jedi so he might have been a "spy". He also was a major supporter of Anakin.

I think the name Khameir Sarin is from the comics. It's not from Supershadow if that's what you guys are gonna say, it was revieled as Sarin way before that dickhole ever posted it.
Lucas never said that the guy who ordered the clones was in episode II, he only said that the traitor who erased Kamino was in episode II. That would be Dooku. Sifo Dias will be seen in that visionaries comic since his blood supposedly was transfused into Grievous. He's a human jedi with short hair and a pointy "van dyke with no moustache" goatee.

It was Dooku, he had the resources and skills to get every part of Palpatine's plan finished up to that point.

Originally posted by woman_beater69
Here's the Dialogue found that's from the movie...
---------------------------

PALPATINE: " It is unavoidable Anakin. it is your destiny"

ANAKIN: " I know master... but it's just hard, the jedi have been like family to me... especially Obi-Wan"

PALPATINE: "Do not let your emotions blind you to the truth Anakin. They used you and deceived you and now... they have betrayed you"

ANAKIN: "Your right. I am sorry master. I know I should not argue with you"

PALPATINE: "Do not worry Anakin, you remind me of myself when I was your age. You also remind me of my old apprentice... Jedi master Sifo Dyas"

ANAKIN: (shocked) "Sifo Dyas? But he was a leading member of the jedi council... one of the best in the order!"

PALPATINE: "So are you Anakin... so are you."

----------------

PS: Maul is a creature. He's just a tattood creature.


Well all I can say to that revelation is **** ME!!! Now that Ive heard that heres my conclusion Sidious has 2 apprentices both Maul and Dyas however since Dyas is also a double agent reporting all the jedi councils acts toi Sidious he really is only like a half apprentice since he has to spend most of his time with the jedi council so really he is only like a half sith. therefore while he spends all his time with the jedi council sidious trains Maul then maul dies and then when he starts training dooku dyas orders the clone army but dooku and sidious might get weary of dyas and might think they will betray them and reveal palpatines real identity to the republic therefore dooku kills him or now the visionarys have confirmed it he is not actually killed but frozen by dooku.

*slaps guru*

i have a reason but its too much for me to type in 1 post

I think George meant to hint that Dooku ordered the army seeing how he was a top jedi.... but then again Dooku left the jedi about 20 yrs before EP1

I read a book called Darthh Maul's Journal. It was cool. Sidious trained him when he was a baby. So that's impossible

"We all have to remember that Lucas made all this as he went along....
...so there will be discepencies. "


oh....okay....

"Wow, that sounds a lot like EXPANDED UNIVERSE TO ME.

but...
IN THE MOVIE MAUL'S A MYSTERY.

Sifo Dyas "WAS" on the council. He died during Phantom Menace though. Obviously he must have left the council, probably before that Naboo crap happened.

But expanded universe...
*shudder*

I don't know...

Remember when people thought Owen was Obiwan's brother?
Expanded Universe means nothing to me."


so what you're saying was that maul was on the council and disguised himself as a jedi leader. no, not possible, the jedi arent that stupid.

whoah! .: Space Opera :., where you been bud?

In AOTC Obi Wan says that he's "under the impression he was killed before that" (ordering the army).

I think this clearly states somebody was impersonating Sifo Dias.
Also, if he was a "leading member of the jedi council", we would have seen him in E1.

Obviously, someone lied to the Kaminoans. Dooku recruited Fett and Sidous never acts in person (till ROTS), so I guess it was Dooku.

While that might not be true, I think it's obvous it's a scam.

I totally agree with Pogel, somebody must have impersonated Sifo Dias to the Kaminos, my guess it was either Darth Maul or Anakin, it had to be some force user with a lightsaber otherwise the Kaminos would have been suspicious of him! I don't think it was Count Dooku cause when Obi Wan interogates Jango Fett, Jango admits he was recruteted by a man called Tyrannus (Dooku) but he says he never heard of a Sifo Dias, so why would he tell the truth first and lie later, doesnt make sense to me...

I "Really" do hope they explane more in Episode 3.

Youre Not Thinking Correct....Someone Ordered The Clones On Sifo Dyas Name But Is Wasn't Sify Dyas Himself...Do U Understand...I Think It Was One Of Three Characters In The Movie Who Ordered Them

1: Dooku 50%

2: Darth Sidious 50%

3: Grievous 20 - 30% (Since He Was In AOTC On Geonosis Who Knows If He Wasn't In The Phantom Meance At This Point.)

No One Else Could Be Sifo Dyas Except Them So ENOUGH!!!!

If you read LoE they explain that Sifo Dyas did order the clones and he was just a Jedi master who was Dooku's closest friend..than Dooku had to kill him as a test...or something like that.

As ever, this theory is utterly ridiculous- there is no way Maul would not have been recognised for who he is.

This is sheer fanboyism, an issue that has plagued the Sifo-Dyas question from square one, as peolle try and find increasingly unlikely candidates for the position, from Qui-Gon to Maul to, no doubt, Kitster.

KITSTER!!!!!!?!??!?

haven't read that one...oh man
what will they come up with next

next time you wanna NOT post a (possible) spoiler in the title of your topic..??

this is stuff i would not want to know if it's true.

the general is not part of the conspiracy, he has no idea about palps plot. That is why he is disapointed when Dooku tells him he cannot kill palps only kidnap him, so 0% it was the general. Dooku most likely ordered the army.

Where did that quote come from ***link please*** because I just finished listening to the entire ROTS Novel and that is not in there.

"so what you're saying was that maul was on the council and disguised himself as a jedi leader. no, not possible, the jedi arent that stupid."

...by your argument; Lucas was saying that Palpatine was a senator from Naboo for a good long while and friends with many jedi on the council and moved his way up politically in the movies over a 13 year span, but in reallity he was a dark superpowerful Sith lord who was ages old and been plotting to rid the galaxy of Jedis and take over the Republic as a heartless Sith dictator? the jedi aren't that stupid!

Originally posted by Balcomus Prime
Could Sifo Dias have been Qui Gon? He died. He didn't disappear like a normal Jedi so he might have been a "spy". He also was a major supporter of Anakin.

Qui gon is evil hes a part of sidious's plan to capture anakin, also no... i wont bother... "i have a bad feeling about this" "i dont sense anything"
"its something else wear..." "...Keep your concentration here and now"

think about it =p

not all zabraks are tattoed, Saesee Tiin (or maybe agen kolar) is a zabrak.

DNA is the answer.
The jedi would have investigated the corpse of Maul and extracted DNA to identify him ( after all clones are possible, so DNA extraction is a precursor to it)

Also If Sifo was originally in the JO and suddenly left, then its a llogical ine of investigation for the JO to see if they are indeed one of the same person.



that make sense?














naw
me 2

it's obvious to me...

s Y f f O D i A s

if you take this spelling, and rearrange the letters it reads:

syffo dias: is yoda ffs

it's Yoda for frik sake... duh! people!!

how about we stop all these pointless rumor threads and actually realize that sifo-dyas was sifo-dyas. It explains it in many books...

yeh it even says it in the scrap book of Ep3 that Dooku killed Sifo-dyas 10 years prior to Ep3

exactly

Originally posted by woman_beater69
Let's forget about the expanded universe for a minute...
Focusing on the movies...


In The Phantom Menace (the movie!) we know very little about Darth Maul. He's Sidious' apprentice. That's it. He is a mystery.

Now In Episode II we learn A jedi Master named Sifo Dyas ordered the clone army. Sifo Dyas died ten years before Attack Of the Clones so he died during the events of The Phantom Menace.

Now...
Skip to Episode III. As revealed in the REVENGE OF THE SITH novel (go to MF.com's forums for that), Palps tells Anakin that his old apprentice was Jedi Master Sifo Dyas, the one to order the Clone Army. Sifo Dyas died during The Phantom Menace. He died before Count Dooku joined up with Sidious. He died when Maul died.

So...

Remembering what Yoda said about "Only two there are" doesn't it make sense that Darth Maul is a fallen Jedi?

Maul is Sifo-Dyas.

well thought out, but

1. Darth Maul has been trained by the Sith since he was 12. He has never been trained in the Jedi arts.

2. He would of been on the Council. You would think Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon would reconise him. Plus i think he would of been too young to become a master whether he had Jedi training or not

Originally posted by hunchy
how about we stop all these pointless rumor threads and actually realize that sifo-dyas was sifo-dyas. It explains it in many books...

i agree 100%. Theres no big twist at all. He's not Grievous, Dooku, Maul, etc. Sifo-Dyas is Sifo-Dyas

enough with the Sifo Dyas threads the visual dictionary already reveleaded who he was. A Jedi master who believed in Dooku and nothing more

I applaude you.

would be cool, but he's not

who are you referring to?

Ok I don't want to start a war but I have to say this. Please the next time you have to post massive spoilers don't "declare" them in the bloody title of the thread. I come here for pics, videos and the countdown thread not for text spoilers, which to me are more devastating than pics, and frankly I was pissed off.
For example, the "MF.com spoilers" is a cleverly thought thread title, because people can see that it contains spoilers, yet it does not reveal anything unless you click on it. I really did not want to know this so next time you have to post this stuff please do it in "incognito" or that sort of thing and think that not everyone may appreciate you bursting out.

Originally posted by Darth Maverick
yeh it even says it in the scrap book of Ep3 that Dooku killed Sifo-dyas 10 years prior to Ep3

maybe it meant that Dooku and YODA had a grand battle 10 years before Ep3, and that Dooku handed Yoda his wrinkly green a$$ during the battle, and at the time, Yoda was incognito as Siffo Dias...

then, after Yoda got whooped on by Dooku, having already placed the secret order for the cloners to create the army of the Republic, Yoda decided then and there to never be Siffo Dias again...

and the rumor became legend, that Dooku killed Siffo Dias on that day.

siffo dias: is yoda ffs!!

sorta like the 'Darth Vader... betrayed and murdered your (Luke's)father..' thing except in this case, Siffo Dias/Yoda was betrayed and 'murdered' by Dooku. They weren't really actually murdered, killed dead, they just ceased to exist on a specific day due to specific circumstances...


see, if Yoda was responsible for commissioning the Clone Army of the Republic, then when the clones turn against the Jedi and become the Imperial Storm Troopers, Yoda would have one more reason to go into seclusion on Dagobah and to never be heard from again... until Episode V that is...


siffo dias: is yoda ffs!

it's an anagram!! and, as we all know, George Lucas based the original trilogy on Kurosawa films and all those grand sweeping epics, but what you maybe didn't know is that he based the prequel trilogy almost exclusively upon the Hannibal Lecter trilogy; GL is a fan of the anagrams used by Hannibal, so it makes sense that he would use this word-play to cleverly disguise the identity of the mysterious Siffo Dias...

I wouldn't be surprised at all if, during ROTS, Dooku is seen eating Mace Windu's liver with some fava beans and a nice chiante... look for it!

Eleonora, i would agree except that the person who created this thread is dead wrong. So don't worry. Nothing is spoiled, even though no mention of Sifo-Dyas is even in Episode 3 at all....

interesting theory but I don't think so....

yeah but enough theories when there are facts out there stating sifo dyas was in fact himself. this is also true, because he is never mentioned in episode 3.

"quote: (post)
Originally posted by Balcomus Prime
Could Sifo Dias have been Qui Gon? He died. He didn't disappear like a normal Jedi so he might have been a "spy". He also was a major supporter of Anakin.



Qui gon is evil hes a part of sidious's plan to capture anakin, also no... i wont bother... "i have a bad feeling about this" "i dont sense anything"
"its something else wear..." "...Keep your concentration here and now"

think about it =p"

I remember in The Phantom Menace Obi-Wan mentioned to Qui-Gon that he would be on the council if he followed orders

Im starting to believe that Qui-Gon is Syfodias

The idea the Sifo-Dyas is a non-descript off-screen Jedi ruins it for me.

Originally posted by hunchy
Eleonora, i would agree except that the person who created this thread is dead wrong. So don't worry. Nothing is spoiled, even though no mention of Sifo-Dyas is even in Episode 3 at all....

Thank God for that.

Originally posted by woman_beater69
Let's forget about the expanded universe for a minute...
Focusing on the movies...


In The Phantom Menace (the movie!) we know very little about Darth Maul. He's Sidious' apprentice. That's it. He is a mystery.

Now In Episode II we learn A jedi Master named Sifo Dyas ordered the clone army. Sifo Dyas died ten years before Attack Of the Clones so he died during the events of The Phantom Menace.

Now...
Skip to Episode III. As revealed in the REVENGE OF THE SITH novel (go to MF.com's forums for that), Palps tells Anakin that his old apprentice was Jedi Master Sifo Dyas, the one to order the Clone Army. Sifo Dyas died during The Phantom Menace. He died before Count Dooku joined up with Sidious. He died when Maul died.

So...

Remembering what Yoda said about "Only two there are" doesn't it make sense that Darth Maul is a fallen Jedi?

Maul is Sifo-Dyas.



GOD your good very good

Originally posted by woman_beater69


So...

Remembering what Yoda said about "Only two there are" doesn't it make sense that Darth Maul is a fallen Jedi?

Maul is Sifo-Dyas.

If this is the case, then why didn't Qui-Gon recognize him when they fought the first time?

For the love of God, it has been proven already. One: Sifo Dyas is not mentioned in Episode 3. Two: Sifo Dyas is Sifo Dyas.

starwars.com databank :::

"Once a Zabrak from Iridonia, Maul abandoned all trace of his former identity when he took on his Sith name . So complete was his devotion that he even endured the agony of having intricate Sith tattoos applied to his entire body."

Official site doesnt go against the idea of this topic

Originally posted by Gangularis
next time you wanna NOT post a (possible) spoiler in the title of your topic..??

this is stuff i would not want to know if it's true. I agree...although it's not a HUGE revelation, (if true), it's still relevant. Personally, I have not read a single spoiler...I made the mistake of reading vital points of the script of Episode II and was too spoiled to the point where I didn't enjoy AOTC. I don't want to make that same mistake again.

The only spoiler I'll settle for is, "Anakin turns bad". LOL.

BTW...

Originally posted by woman_beater69
Remembering what Yoda said about "Only two there are" doesn't it make sense that Darth Maul is a fallen Jedi? Based on that line? No...not really.

it all seams rather shakey ground to me

s i f f o d y a s: is yoda ffs!!

Originally posted by SlickRick69
s i f f o d y a s: is yoda ffs!!



But, seriously - this topic is actually being entertained in May 2005.
Shame on you all.

Uhh...I can't wait for Episode 3 to be over, so all these pointless threads will be gone. If your waiting for Episode 3 to explain about Sifo Dyas, your always going to be waiting, because it never explains in it. Thus, it is not an important revelation and Sifo Dyas is himself. Read up on your facts people.

I do agree about Qui Gon being part of the Sith plan. If u look at everything he did in Ep. 1, u see that if it wasnt for him, Anakin wouldnt have become what he is. If he hadnt told Obi Wan to train the boy, Yoda might have been able to, and all of this wouldnt have happened. He prolly also set up his death.

I personally cant belive this topic has warrented 72 replies in the Ep.3 forum, in EU maybe but it wont be revealed in EP.3

Sifo-Dyas' identity was already laid out in Labryinth of Evil..why is it so hard to accept that he's just an average Joe used to explain a plot twist?

EXACTLY. THANK YOU. And as for JohnConstantine's ridicioulous idea, I say to you read the script if you want to contemplate such crazy ideas. But I can say that your way off track. Qui Gonn is in fact good......

what about my idea? siffo dyas is yoda, ffs!!
see, yoda foresaw the Rise of the Sith (change to Revenge of the Sith so as to not be confused with T3:Rise of the Machines), so he had the cloners create the army, just in case... but he didnt want his name connected to it, so he invented the alias/anagram siffo dyas.

it will inspire telling dialogue, linking the prequels to the OT, such things as:

Dooku to Obi Wan: Yoda never told you about Siffo Dyas...

Obi Wan: He told me enough... he told me you killed Siffo Dyas!

Dooku: No... Yoda IS Sifo Dyas, for f-ck sake!

Obi Wan: Impossible!!

Dooku: Search your feelings... you know it to be true...



and later, when Obi Wan confronts Yoda...

Obi Wan: Master Yoda, are you Siffo Dyas?
Are you the father of the Clone Army?

Yoda sighs: The father of the Clone Army, I am...
but commission them I must... have... had to... do.. for f-ck sake!

then, when the Clone Troopers become Imperial Storm Troopers, Yoda runs and hides in shame and disgrace on Dagobah, rather than be hunted down and killed for being a Jedi Master, or executed by the few remaining Jedi, for betraying the Republic by commissioning such a weak ass army of clones...


siffo dyas: is yoda ffs!! it has to be! I tell ya! It has to be!!!

Yeah, your funny there..........did you spend all night on that?

not just one night...

Lucas, SuperShadow and me spent the years from 1970 to 1975 smoking crack, dropping acid, and hammering out all the details for a 12, yes TWELVE, part movie saga, a series of 4 trilogies...

But, Lucas got too old and jaded by Hollyweird, so he will be unable to manage the other 6 flicks. Hopefully, Mickey Suttle and me can work something out with the little old fat man, to truly tell the definitive final chapters of the saga...


we'll see..

In The General Grieovus Comic When They Built Him As A Droid U Could See Sifo Dyas In Som Sort Of Canister...And Dooku Went In The Room And Said If Sifo Dyas Was Ready For His Blood Transfusion While Grievous Was Badly Wounded Before The Mechanical Body Search Around MF.com And Youll See It

The One That Said That Sifo Dyas Is Sifo Dyas Had Right

no, Siffo Dyas is Yoda, ffs!!

why would Lucas call him Siffo Dyas, if it's not an anagram for 'is yoda ffs'

it's so obvious!! Lucas is the anagram master!!!


here's an extended version of the scenes from ROTS:

Anakin and Obi Wan are talking to Yoda about Anakin's mother, and his birth

Obi Wan: Trust your feelings, Anakin... Let go of this nonsense of your birth and father... let the Force be your guide...


Anakin ignores Obi Wan, and questions Yoda


Anakin: I've heard others on the Jedi Council talking about 'a virgance' in the Force. That I AM the virgance.. I'm no virgance, Master Yoda... ask Padme!!! I mean... uhh... what can you tell me of my father, Master?


Yoda sighs: Your father, hmmm... a powerful Jedi was he... powerful Jedi...

Anakin: You knew my father? Can you tell me his name? Please Master, I must know!

Yoda: yesss... time it is for the truth you to know...
Siffo Dyas... Siffo Dyas is your father...

Anakin: Who is he? Where is he, Master?

Yoda talks to Anakin: A Dark Jedi named Dooku betrayed and murdered Siffo Dyas...


this sends Ani on a whirlwind adventure to the archives, to find his long lost daddy... but the Jedi purge is fast-approaching, and the Clone Troopers become storm troopers, storm the archives and destroy the data before Anakin can learn the truth...

so, Anakin is taken in by Palpatine, and Obi Wan is brought before Dooku...


Dooku to Obi Wan: Yoda never told you about Siffo Dyas...

Obi Wan: He told me enough... he told me you killed Siffo Dyas!

Dooku: No... Yoda IS Siffo Dyas, for f-ck sake!

Obi Wan: Impossible!!

Dooku: Search your feelings... you know it to be true...



and later, when Obi Wan confronts Yoda...

Obi Wan: Master Yoda, are you Siffo Dyas?
Are you the father of the Clone Army?

Yoda sighs: The father of the Clone Army, I am...
but commission them I must... have... had to... do.. for f-ck sake!



then later, when Anakin learns the truth, that Yoda is Siffo Dyas:


Anakin: But, Master Yoda, you told me that Dooku killed Siffo Dyas!

Yoda: Told you that, I did, yes... Dooku betrayed the Jedi Council and learned of the Clone Army being commissioned on Kamino, by my alter-ego, alias Siffo Dyas... to the Dark Side Dooku turned, so, to prevent Dooku from learning of my secret identity, I vowed to never again speak the name or use the identity of Siffo Dyas...
When that happened, Siffo Dyas ceased to exist...

Anakin: But.. you also told me that Siffo Dyas was my father...

Yoda: No, Anakin...


I AM YOUR FATHER!!!!




TA-DA!!!

the real reason Yoda runs and hides on Dagobah, beneath the fog and behind that shield of Dark Side magic: because he is the father of the Chosen One, the one who will bring balance to the Force! the ultimate bad-ass Sith Lord, Anakin 'Darth Vader' Skywalker!!! Hard to hold a post as Grand Master Jedi when a)all your pupils are slaughtered, and b) you are the father of the Dark Lord of the Sith!!!


it's a great grand ending to a great grand saga...
except, of course, it's not the end... it's only the end of the beginning!!


cool!!

What the hell is this thread even around for?? Wow and sometimes I wonder why I dont post here as much...

i know...theres a load of crap threads lately....

who thinks this crap up anyway?

Me.. and George Lucas...

Originally posted by woman_beater69
Let's forget about the expanded universe for a minute...
Focusing on the movies...


In The Phantom Menace (the movie!) we know very little about Darth Maul. He's Sidious' apprentice. That's it. He is a mystery.

Now In Episode II we learn A jedi Master named Sifo Dyas ordered the clone army. Sifo Dyas died ten years before Attack Of the Clones so he died during the events of The Phantom Menace.

Now...
Skip to Episode III. As revealed in the REVENGE OF THE SITH novel (go to MF.com's forums for that), Palps tells Anakin that his old apprentice was Jedi Master Sifo Dyas, the one to order the Clone Army. Sifo Dyas died during The Phantom Menace. He died before Count Dooku joined up with Sidious. He died when Maul died.

So...

Remembering what Yoda said about "Only two there are" doesn't it make sense that Darth Maul is a fallen Jedi?

Maul is Sifo-Dyas. No he's not.

This is STILL alive? Oh my...

ok, to put this thread to rest.... I AM SIFO DYAS.
there. no more discussion needed.

Maul grew up on a backwater planet until he was discovered by Sidious in his teens. Then he died. No connection to Sifo-Dais.

Unless Mist has a secret other than being Sifo-Dyas, this can't be simpler.

Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi. He died. Dooku his name.

well i can tell this guys has his ways straight: women_beater69

wow what a thought i respect the creator of this thread for thinking so in depth to reasonably come up with this interesting and possible but i doubt we will ever know

watch yoda look at windu with googly eyes when obi wan tells him of the happenings on Kamino in AOTC, somethings definetely up.

yeah, BKnight, I KNOW!!

siffo dyas: is yoda ffs!!!

I can't wait to see how many people are gonna be saddened by the fact that it wont explain in Episode who Sifo Dyas is, and not only that, but he happens to only be himself....

wait...

Sifo-Dyas is... Sifo-Dyas!?! *gasp*

NO! That makes no sense! He has to be Yoda's alter-ego, nothing else would make sense!

Has anyone here said that Dooku is Syfo-Dyas because of he left the order 10 years ago?
That he was said to have died of the Jedi Order.
That Tyranus recruited Jango and placed the order?
That he and Sidious had planned this since Palpatine's election?
If they have said this, sorry.

sifo dyas is a jedi...not dooku...not yoda...not palpatine.....not maul.....just a normal jedi...

now please god, let this thread die in peace.

siffo dyas is yoda, ffs!!

however, this won't be explained until the final episode of the upcoming tv series, so you'll just have to wait...

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
wait...

Sifo-Dyas is... Sifo-Dyas!?! *gasp*

NO! That makes no sense! He has to be Yoda's alter-ego, nothing else would make sense!

Excellent.. lol

This thread is ridiculous. Sifodyas is probably a name GL has already forgotten. Don't hold your breath and let this topic die already.

I'm Sifodyas. Bwa ha! *Changes the archives.*

GL may be old, fat and senile, but no way he has forgotten the greatest mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma, buried under an anagram, served up like a burrito, and crapped out his pasty white bunghole...

siffo dyas: is yoda ffs!!

Sifo Dias was a jedi master on the council at the time just before Phantom menace. He was a former friend of Dooku's, and after his death, dooku used his name to get the clone army built. But this whole who is syfo dias discussion is qui gon, or maul or so and so is getting old. He was a jedi master, and he is NOT any of the people from any of the movies. Syfo Dias is not in the movies. He is mentioned, that is all.

excellent.....now listen to vanquish and STOP POSTING RUBBISH IN HERE.

Sifo Dyas In In The Grievous Comic...Read And Shut The Hell Up About This Thread...Youre Making To Much Of These Threads Lately And Im Begging Now The Admin To Shut Down This One Please Please....

Maul is an Iridonian....How could palp be sifo's apprentice and be Mauls master if Maul Is sifo?

Good Lord, less than a month to go and this thread still exists?...

Darth Sidious was trained by Darth Plagueis.
For centuries the Sith had remained hidden, waiting for an apprentice charismatic, powerful, and intelligent enough to exact revenge on the Jedi.
Sidious was that apprentice.
Seeing the democratic heart of the Republic as the weakness he could exploit, he set in motion a series of events which would see him - as his alter-ego Palpatine - control the very Republic that the Jedi sought to protect.
And the fearsome Darth Maul was, in turn, just the apprentice to announce to the Jedi that the Sith were back.

Following Maul's death, Sidious sought a quicker path to procuring a new apprentice.
The reappearance of the Sith and the encroaching dark shroud had created fractures within the order which could be exploited.
Aleady disenchanted with the Jedi Order, repspected Jedi Master, Count Dooku fell under Palpatine's wing.
His seduction to the Dark Side was almost complete when Palpatine revealled to Dooku that his former confident, Master Sifo-Dyas - anticipating the dark times ahead - had secretly been in touch with Kaminoan cloners to create an army to protect the Republic.
The Sith could use these clones when the time is right, but they must remain a secret for the time being. Dooku was instructed to kill Dyas and erase Kamino from the Jedi Archives - thus cementing his turn to the Dark Side, proving his loyalty to Sidious and providing Sidious with a scapegoat for the Army he himself had created.
With no one able to prove that the innocent Dyas had NOT ordered the Army, the Jedi would be left chasing their own tails until the time came when Sidious ensured the Clones would HAVE to be brought into action.

So, just to recap:

Darth Maul is dead and is not in ROTS.
Order 66 proves that the Clone Army was concieved and ordered by Sidious himself.
They become the foundation of his future Empire - how could it ever have been anyone else?
Only Dooku would have A) had access to the Jedi archives and B) had the inclination to erase Kamino.
LOE supports this.

So - it is explained in ROTS.
And Sifo-Dyas is, and always has been, just Sifo-Dyas.
And he is dead.

Eh Pardon Me But The Chansellor(Palpatine) Took Charge Of The Clones But Did Not Order Them Dude You Gota Look On AOTC Again

Originally posted by J-Unit
Eh Pardon Me But The Chansellor(Palpatine) Took Charge Of The Clones But Did Not Order Them Dude You Gota Look On AOTC Again

Sidious ordered them.
Dooku contacted and liased with the clone template, Jango Fett, and then erased Kamino.
Where in AOTC does it say otherwise... erm... dude?

Originally posted by mossman

Darth Sidious was trained by Darth Plagueis.
For centuries the Sith had remained hidden, waiting for an apprentice charismatic, powerful, and intelligent enough to exact revenge on the Jedi.
Sidious was that apprentice.
Seeing the democratic heart of the Republic as the weakness he could exploit, he set in motion a series of events which would see him - as his alter-ego Palpatine - control the very Republic that the Jedi sought to protect.
And the fearsome Darth Maul was, in turn, just the apprentice to announce to the Jedi that the Sith were back.

Following Maul's death, Sidious sought a quicker path to procuring a new apprentice.
The reappearance of the Sith and the encroaching dark shroud had created fractures within the order which could be exploited.
Aleady disenchanted with the Jedi Order, repspected Jedi Master, Count Dooku fell under Palpatine's wing.
His seduction to the Dark Side was almost complete when Palpatine revealled to Dooku that his former confident, Master Sifo-Dyas - anticipating the dark times ahead - had secretly been in touch with Kaminoan cloners to create an army to protect the Republic.
The Sith could use these clones when the time is right, but they must remain a secret for the time being. Dooku was instructed to kill Dyas and erase Kamino from the Jedi Archives - thus cementing his turn to the Dark Side, proving his loyalty to Sidious and providing Sidious with a scapegoat for the Army he himself had created.
With no one able to prove that the innocent Dyas had NOT ordered the Army, the Jedi would be left chasing their own tails until the time came when Sidious ensured the Clones would HAVE to be brought into action.


Originally posted by mossman
So, just to recap:

Darth Maul is dead and is not in ROTS.
Order 66 proves that the Clone Army was concieved and ordered by Sidious himself.
They become the foundation of his future Empire - how could it ever have been anyone else?
Only Dooku would have A) had access to the Jedi archives and B) had the inclination to erase Kamino.
LOE supports this.

So - it is explained in ROTS.
And Sifo-Dyas is, and always has been, just Sifo-Dyas.
And he is dead.


all of this sounds good, very good in fact...

there's just one small thing you are overlooking...























Siffo Dyas is Yoda, ffs!!

LOL, perhaps Siffo Dyas is Yoda, FFS...

But Sifo-Dyas is stil Sifo-Dyas.

OK, for what i hope will be the last time, I wil explain...

Yoda orginally called his alter-ego Siffo Dyas, which is Old Muppet for 'The One, Who is Neither Neo nor New' Siffo meaning 'New Neo', Dyas meaning 'Not'

Republic credit cards only allow for 8 characters to be printed in the NAME SPACE, not 9, an over-sight which Yoda failed to consider when coining the name for his alter-ego. When he applied for the Republic-credit card, taking that crucial first step in securing funds to commission the clone army, he realized his mistake, but the ball was already rolling, and he had no time to invent a new name and identity..

so, he though long and hard, and realized that that the simple omission of one of the 2 'f's from his alter-ego's first name Siffo would still convey essentially the same subliminal message while allowing him to further conceal his age and true identity, as well as to open a line of credit with Intergalactic Bank and Trust to purchase the clones.

You see, in Old Muppet, where 'Siffo' means 'New Neo', 'Sifo' means simply 'Neo'... so Yoda's alter-ego, Siffo Dyas 'The One who is neither Neo nor New' became simply Sifo Dyas 'The One who is not Neo'

also, being that Siffo Dyas was Old Muppet language, and given that Yoda later become not so much Muppet as digital effect, updating and modernizing the name by dropping that extra silent 'f' seemed appropriate...


as far as GL's mind for anagrams goes, ok, if you must go with the 'popular' spelling, rather than the precise spelling so meticulously planned and plotted by Lucas and myself...

Sifo Dyas: is yoda fs, in which case fs is the standard short-hand for, 'for sure'... for sure... not as dramatically viable as the more oft used 'ffs' but so be it, Jedi...

sifo dyas is still yoda, fs!!!!! ffs!!

I think Darth Plagueis is Sifo Dyas!

Plagueis appears as the master of Sifo Dyas. Until Sidious killed him.
For closer details read the book.
Well I think Plagueis was all the time when he prepared the plan to become the leader of the Universe a jedi.
So he could have ordered them for his plan.
Unfortunately
He seemed to be able to save every life. Only his own one he couldn't
P.s. I think Darth Plagueis will be the evil Sith in episode 7 to 9.

Syfo Dias is Tyrannus 1100% he ordered the clone army as Syfo Dias.How can yoda be Syfo Dias!!!

Originally posted by SlickRick69
all of this sounds good, very good in fact...

there's just one small thing you are overlooking...

Siffo Dyas is Yoda, ffs!!


dude.....for gods sake....you have no intelligent argument to back that up. now just be quiet and accept the damn fact that sifo dyas is sifo dyas. not yoda. not maul.

My God! I can't believe this is still being argued! Sifo Dyas is Sifo Dyas! Is it really that hard to comprehend!?!

Originally posted by SlickRick69
all of this sounds good, very good in fact...

there's just one small thing you are overlooking...




Siffo Dyas is not Yoda, ffs!!


ah! im glad he finally sees the truth!

ok sifo dyas is sifo dyas, but why did he die after he ordered the clone army and why didn't he tell anyone about it. Usualy they give orders but sifo dyas did't get one.

Originally posted by Bloodspock
ok sifo dyas is sifo dyas, but why did he die after he ordered the clone army and why didn't he tell anyone about it. Usualy they give orders but sifo dyas did't get one.

He did more than die.
He was killed.
Because Dooku killed him.
Because Sifo-Dyas never really actually ordered any clones, but everyone was meant to think he did.
Sidious contacted Kamino, pretending to be Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas.
Sidious told Dooku that Sifo did it, but that if Sifo was killed and the clone army hidden, the clones could be used to the Sith advantage.
So Dooku killed Dyas, erased Kamino, left the order and passed the Sith "trial of trust" that Sidious had Forced him into.
He went on to liase with Jango Fett, the clone template, and oversee the completion of the order.

Sidious wanted the clones.
Sidious used the clones.
Sidious ordered the clones.
Sifo-Dyas never knew ANYTHING about any clones.
He was a Jedi Master who got killed - another innocent victim of Palpatine's rise to galactic domination.

Let's look at the alternative: "Hi, I'm Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas. I'd like to order some clones please. Yes, hardened warriors - Oh, I nearly forgot. Could you make them utterly loyal to the head of the Republic and indoctrinate them with a series of special directives. Make sure you put one in there which orders them to slaughter all Jedi immediately - that one will really help the war effort..."

No, Dooku did the ordering, and knew things full well. It could not have happened until Dooku was involved- he brought along the template.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, Dooku did the ordering, and knew things full well. It could not have happened until Dooku was involved- he brought along the template.

Labyrinth of Evil, written as a lead-in ROTS and with access to the ROTS script, begs to differ...
But, Dooku or Sidious, my point remains the same.

The Sith created the clone army.
They pinned it on the Jedi then hid the evidence.
And Sifo-Dyas was just another innocent casualty of war.

since Ush says that Dooku was involved, I must concur...

Yoda sent Dooku to commission the clone army, but instructed Dooku to do so using Yoda's alias alter-ego Sifo Dyas. Dooku did it, but then started plotting with Sidious how to make the Republic Clone Army work for the Sith, Dooku left the Jedi, became a Sith, etc etc, blah blah...

it still works, and siffo dyas is still yoda, ffs!!


you'll see

Originally posted by mossman
Labyrinth of Evil, written as a lead-in ROTS and with access to the ROTS script, begs to differ...
But, Dooku or Sidious, my point remains the same.

The Sith created the clone army.
They pinned it on the Jedi then hid the evidence.
And Sifo-Dyas was just another innocent casualty of war.

Nvm what the EU has to say! The films make it clear. Jango Fett, the template, was recruited BY Dooku. The army could not start construction until Fett was there. Therefore, Dooku must have done it and known all about it.

If you rearrange the letters of Sifo-Dyas, you get:
Yoda fiss.
?

There's only one big problem:
The Sith are always two a master and a pupil. in this time Count Dooku was a just a normal "lost jedi" or maybe he was still fighting for the Jedi at this time.

no offense. but why is the topic still around?

well i use to think that Qi Gon Jin was master sifa-dias, cause when obi wan was talkin to the cloning people they said that master sifa-dias made the order and obi won said he was dead he looked like he was remembering back to when they were fighting maul, and maul killed Qi Gon. he looked sad for a moment cause u know, Qi Gon was his master. and Qi Gon died when Maul did so... thats all i have to say

Lucas was asked this question at C3 and said that Sifo-Dyas was a dead jedi that Dooku impersonated to order the clones.

Plus I believe this is also in the DVD commentary of AOTC.

maybe Lucas was asked the question: George, is Dooku Sifo Dyas?

and he answered: It's so obvious who Siffo Dyas is, you can figure it all out for yourself, I left all the clues spelled out for you already... it's all right there for you!

so the reporter said: OK, so you're saying Sifo Dyas is Dooku... great!

so George says: oh, FFS!!! i said it's all spelled out for you!! now, move on!!

and the lore became legend that Siffo Dyas is Dooku, when what he really meant, in his cryptic Lucasian way, is...

siffo dyas: is yoda ffs!!!

SOUNDS LIKE BULL-SHlT

Originally posted by SlickRick69
maybe Lucas was asked the question: George, is Dooku Sifo Dyas?

and he answered: It's so obvious who Siffo Dyas is, you can figure it all out for yourself, I left all the clues spelled out for you already... it's all right there for you!

so the reporter said: OK, so you're saying Sifo Dyas is Dooku... great!

so George says: oh, FFS!!! i said it's all spelled out for you!! now, move on!!

and the lore became legend that Siffo Dyas is Dooku, when what he really meant, in his cryptic Lucasian way, is...

siffo dyas: is yoda ffs!!!

except theres one 'f' in sifo dyas..isnt there?

and sorry to bump this up....but here is clarification that maul is NOT sifo dyas

http://s32.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=303Y0RL1JSXFI25BO62HO77FP5

Hasn't anyone proved that Mon Mothma is Sifo-Dyas yet?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Hasn't anyone proved that Mon Mothma is Sifo-Dyas yet?

Nope, but here's what Pablo Hidalgo said on the matter in his Q&A:

Q: You said once that the character who ordered the clones was seen onscreen in Ep2. The new "Labyrinth of Evil" novel says that Sifo-Dyas himself ordered the clones. Do you ... um... still stand by your earlier statement? Or, has something changed since you spoke on the matter?
A: It WAS going to be Dooku, now it's Sifo, and that's that, since there won't be any mention in RotS! Well!

BUT...

IMHO, LoE does not say that Sifo-Dyas ordered the Clones.
It says, in a third person narrative explaining Dooku's POV, that Sidious told Dooku that Sifo-Dyas had ordered the Clones, which is something totally different, I'm sure you'll agree.

I still say Sidious himself was the actual impersonator who placed the order and Dooku was instructed to follow up that initial contact, probably continuing the Dyas subterfuge face-to-face, and providing the Clone template in the shape of Jango Fett...

i have always wondered who sifa-dyas was, i still dont know

and was general grevious once a jedi who got killed sort of and became a robot, dont flame me or critisize me for saying this but: i may have read wrong but i read that when obi wan is chasing GG they go into a cave and GG ends up saying that he is sifo-dyas, i cant remember where i found the script ill have a look for it now

Originally posted by LandoSpeeder2
Hm, they said Sifo-Dyas was on the council though. So that could not be possible

Yea I do not think that Darth and Sifo is the same person.Maybe the third movie will exclaim alittle about them.JM

I think Sifo-Dyas was indeed a real jedi, who was killed 10 years prior to Obi-Wan visiting Kamino.

What I'm trying to say is that the alien was struggling with the name of the person who ordered the clone army. He might have been struggling to say the name "Sideous" but in his mispronunciation Obi-wan assumed he said the name "Sifo-Dyas".

Imagine someone who speaks a foreign language trying to say a name and you here a few fragments and assume they mean "Tom" when in fact they mean to say "Tim". Then you say, "oh, do you mean Tom?" and they're like "yeah sure whatever, I don't understand the language very well".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taun We just happens to mispronounce "Sidious" as "Sifo-Dyas," which just happens to be the name of an actual Jedi who died 10 years ago? That's a bit of a stretch, if you ask me. And I believe he called him "Master Sifo-Dyas," and Sidious usually goes by Darth or Lord.

The right explanation is probably the most simple one. I think Sidious or Dooku posed as "Sifo-Dyas" when they ordered the Clone Army. If the Kaminoans had never seen that Jedi before, then how would they know he wasn't telling the truth? As long as whoever ordered the clones paid for them, I wouldn't think the Kaminoans would care.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Hasn't anyone proved that Mon Mothma is Sifo-Dyas yet?

Pffft, everyone knows Luke is really Sifo-Dyas...thanks to some crazy time travel...

Umm...what is the point of this thread, really? And why is it still being debated?

Because it won't die in the hearts of fans who make things a hundred times more complicated than they need to be.

well i only saw this thread because someone brought it back up

why is this thread still open? sifo dyas=EU=LOE
maul dead
the man wo kill dyas is almost dead to, just wait a couple of days and see

Geez, is this still going??? The novel Labrynth Of Evil answers this question definitively (and is an excellent prequel to Revenge - and I usually don't like SW books) and even if you want to yell "EU,EU.." consider that Lucas worked closely with the author in order to have this book tie in directly to the movie (which it does) and is the closest to canon we are ever going to get on the subject. As a side note, the novel also explains the origin of General Grievous.

whos EU?

I think a Mod should just close this STUPID thread, because it's just an annoyance now....

i think so aswell but whos EU?

EU = Expanded Universe, i.e. Star Wars Books, Games, Comics, etc., that aren't directed/written/created/whatever by Lucas.

Originally posted by Darth Luke
i think so aswell but whos EU? This coming from a guy with an EU sig

lol, i didnt realise lol

Did I miss the revelation? Or is this a continuation of silly speculation that began months ago?

I don't think Darth Maul is Sifo Diyas, surely Qui Gon Jin would have recognized him when they met. Remember, avery Jedi is attuned to the Force....

Sifo Diyas was killed by Dooku shortly after he ordered the army. Sidious had Dooku murder him to complete his turn to the Dark Side.

has any1 plated sw bounty hunter?

played i mean