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I decided to put these two in a match together since they are both very powerful. the scenario. An arena the size of a football field. No weapons involved power versus power. I don't care either way since I don't like either one of these two, but I do find there powers interesting. Out of check but interesting none the less.

Iceman would win.

Flash wins.

Iceman can exist as vater vapor and use his powers while doing that. How can Flash hit vapor? He can't escape the area, so Iceman will freeze him sooner or later.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Iceman can exist as vater vapor and use his powers while doing that. How can Flash hit vapor? He can't escape the area, so Iceman will freeze him sooner or later.
lol Flash can think at light speed , he is gonna freeze flash??? he has been frozen and got out of that shit so fast.


Now Ice man will be still while flash does what he wants with Him

Flash is capable of affecting objects and people at a molecular level. So even as water vapor, there may still be an opportunity for him to do SOMETHING.

Now do I think he will be able to KILL Iceman? Ehh, I really don't know. Admittedly, I'm going to wait to hear some other's arguments before I make a decision.

I've seen iceman absorb water from some woman attacking the xmen in a cell when he was only a head. He could do the same to flash. but does the flash have to be standing still for him to absorb it?

flash should wni this,okay i dont really like the flash but i think his powers will beat icemans anyday i mean hows iceman ment to hit him at all if he moves at the speed of light,iceman blasts him flash runs then punches back of icemans head,iceman turns around flash runs full speed around iceman again hits him another time,hell be to quick for iceman to stop him

Iceman would actually be the perfect foil for Flash. Flash is all about speeding molecules...Iceman is about slowing them. Iceman doesn't have to "catch" Flash, per se, since his effects are environmental. As long as Flash is on the battlefield, Iceman can affect him. Then it becomes a classic case of willpower. Who can affect whose molecules most?

Too close to call. Too many factors. Draw.

I'm going with Bobby on this one.

well it's hard to say no weapons since iceman can transform his body into a weapon.
i say iceman wins this because i don't realy think flash can do anything to hurt iceman.
he could run around hitting him and such but physical attacks realy aren't going to hurt iceman.

In a "Ready... Go!" scenario, Flash would be beating on Bobby before he does anything...and even as water vapor, he'd have to stay in the football field-sized area that the thread says....so Flash runs wicked fast all around the place until it's really freakin' hot and Bobby evaporates. Maybe he puts himself back together in a decade or two, but Flash wins by ring-out. Flash...even though I don't really like him.

-DM

Flash.

I dunno, I'm likin' Demi's scenario.

Iceman. Flash cant do anything to him. As demi said bobbys powers are environmental and as long as flash stays in the battlefield then iceman will eventually get him. Its just a matter of when.

i like cheese

http://www.eslkidstuff.com/images/cheese.gif




















Flash would win

How?

either by stealing his speed to the extent that he can't move at all or by supercharging him with speedforce energy until he is overloaded and is destroyed

Thats a physical attack he'd just reform. Its got to the stage where only an attack which destroyed icemans body on a molecular level could take him out. Otherwise i can only see him being taken out mystically or psionically

that's what i'm talking about.... flash can channel the speed force electrical style energy into iceman's disembodied molecular form and overload it..... he'd implode..... or explode........ either way there'll be some "ploding" going on

iceman can freeze things as large as the empire state building solid, at his true potential im sure that hes extremely powerdul.{hes one of the 12 mutants of incredible power}

now it is said that with enough control of his power, bobby can take the temperature of things down to absolute zero{which is THE COMPLETE ABSENCE OF ENERGY}, if he does that to the whole football field then flash wudnt be able to move even if he wanted to because his molecules will be sucked of all their energy.

Is this true anyone cause i admit i dont know enough about flash to say whether he can or can not project the spped force into someone at a molecular level. I knew he could do it into other objects and people but not on that level. If he can then it seems he could beat iceman but if he cant then iceman all the way

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Is this true anyone cause i admit i dont know enough about flash to say whether he can or can not project the spped force into someone at a molecular level. I knew he could do it into other objects and people but not on that level. If he can then it seems he could beat iceman but if he cant then iceman all the way

It may not be an issue at all, since I've heard that Flash can only steal speed from those within the speed force, which definitely would not include Iceman.

Anyways, I THINK that stealing speed with the speed force works at a molecular level, considering Flash's nigh experitse with molecule control. Don't quote me on that though.

Flash can steal momentum from anything. It doesn't have to be connected to the speed force. He can steal momentum from bullets. Don't tell me bullets are connected to the force.

I don't think so. Why would he need to steal momentum from a bullet? When has he done this?

look in the Flash vs Quiksilver cage match.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I don't think so. Why would he need to steal momentum from a bullet? When has he done this?

I wouldn't put it past him, but yeah, can't say I've seen it. Yo The Flash, you got an issue number?

Leonheart, who are the "12 mutants of incredible power"??? Is it some list I never heard of?

And thanks for the veiled compliment Scoob....if that's what it was.

-DM

P.S. Stickin' with Flash by the way....beats him senseless, then runs fast enough to make Bobby evaporate.

the twelve?? its a list of "supposedly" the twelve most powerful mutants ever....and with most people there i would have to agree...it was storm, iceman, and some fire guy for elementals, magneto and polaris for opposite magnetic feilds, Cable( or xman cant remember), cyclops, and jean for the strength of family, xavier for mind....and then i cant remember....but i mean cyclops?? anyways there was a big plot with the destiny books talkin about these twelve...but in reality apoc just wanted them so he could absorb there energy and place his essence in i think Xman....but cyclops broke free, took nates place and thats how cyke and apoc became one....but then they got free.....and going back to this fight i have no idea who would win.....

cyclops could be a realy dangerous mutant but i don't know about realy powerful.
his biggest advantage is he realy don't need to charge his blast to do a lot of damage

Originally posted by nigel45
I wouldn't put it past him, but yeah, can't say I've seen it. Yo The Flash, you got an issue number?

It just seems kind of pointless for him to steal momentum; he can already run approaching lightspeed. Why wouldn't he just swat down a bullet?

Flash arguments get exceedingly complicated. Everyone makes claims about Flash that they never prove. Flash's so called "Infinity Mass Punch" is actually more of a "Terminal Velocity Punch." He didn't knock Zum around the world twice, he ran around the world twice and punched Zum knocking him miles away. That is more conceivable.

If Flash can steal momentum from anything, perform an "infinity mass punch," and cause people to explode, I just don't see anyone beating him.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
And thanks for the veiled compliment Scoob....if that's what it was.

-DM


if you let me know what you're talking about i'll let you know what it was meant to be.....

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
It just seems kind of pointless for him to steal momentum; he can already run approaching lightspeed. Why wouldn't he just swat down a bullet?

Flash arguments get exceedingly complicated. Everyone makes claims about Flash that they never prove. Flash's so called "Infinity Mass Punch" is actually more of a "Terminal Velocity Punch." He didn't knock Zum around the world twice, he ran around the world twice and punched Zum knocking him miles away. That is more conceivable.

If Flash can steal momentum from anything, perform an "infinity mass punch," and cause people to explode, I just don't see anyone beating him.
No.Totally wrong.
He would just remove momentum from an object that is a threat to someone maybe because he wants to use his powers while he's doing something else?Or just to use them.Superman can punch through titanium, but he can also melt it with heat vision, but he doesn't always use it.
IMP isn't TVP.
Flash enters in the Speed Force Dimension and exited from it at lightspeed, performing the IMP, he himself sayed he was seeing Zum at the end of the tunnel made of compressed photons.
He sayed he can punch him thousand of times before Zum can even blink an eye.And the punch sent him to the other side of the world.
That is a fact.Read the comic.

Originally posted by Scoobless
if you let me know what you're talking about i'll let you know what it was meant to be.....

ok, so in another thread you made a some subtle comment...forget what it was, but it went right over the heads of everyone until you explained. You made the comment that you enjoyed trying to be subtle like that.

In this thread, I am defending the Flash. So are you. On page 1, after I had defended Flash, you had a picture of cheese and said "I like cheese. Flash would win." Directly underneath my name at the moment it says "Defender of Cheese" (my "title". Usually you back up your opinions with some sort of explanation but you didn't at first in this one (you did later)...I thought maybe you were saying Flash, and the cheese thing was a subtle reference to my argument rather than making your own.

I guess I was wrong, but in my head it made a lot of sense. And I figured we'd share some unspoken smile as the rest of the posters on the thread didn't know what I meant by "the veiled compliment". But instead, everyone knows that I'm just living in my own little idiotic world, and no one had a clue as to what I meant.

hmmm...ending now...

-DM

Originally posted by K3VIL
No.Totally wrong.
He would just remove momentum from an object that is a threat to someone maybe because he wants to use his powers while he's doing something else?Or just to use them.Superman can punch through titanium, but he can also melt it with heat vision, but he doesn't always use it.
IMP isn't TVP.
Flash enters in the Speed Force Dimension and exited from it at lightspeed, performing the IMP, he himself sayed he was seeing Zum at the end of the tunnel made of compressed photons.
He sayed he can punch him thousand of times before Zum can even blink an eye.And the punch sent him to the other side of the world.
That is a fact.Read the comic.

I have seen the issue. It isn't referred to as an "infinity mass punch," Flash increases his inertial mass in the Speed Force. Before he does this, he runs around the world twice.

Mass is constant. It does not increase, or decrease. If it were truly an "infinite mass punch," Zum would have been killed upon contact. Then, the Flash would collapse under his own gravity, pulling the entire galaxy into a black hole like none the universe has ever seen.

If Flash can move at near lightspeed, I don't think time is a real problem for him. He could swat down the bullet, and save a building full of children from an explosion in far less than a second.

Can you give an issue in which Flash uses this power?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
ok, so in another thread you made a some subtle comment...forget what it was, but it went right over the heads of everyone until you explained. You made the comment that you enjoyed trying to be subtle like that.

In this thread, I am defending the Flash. So are you. On page 1, after I had defended Flash, you had a picture of cheese and said "I like cheese. Flash would win." Directly underneath my name at the moment it says "Defender of Cheese" (my "title". Usually you back up your opinions with some sort of explanation but you didn't at first in this one (you did later)...I thought maybe you were saying Flash, and the cheese thing was a subtle reference to my argument rather than making your own.

I guess I was wrong, but in my head it made a lot of sense. And I figured we'd share some unspoken smile as the rest of the posters on the thread didn't know what I meant by "the veiled compliment". But instead, everyone knows that I'm just living in my own little idiotic world, and no one had a clue as to what I meant.

hmmm...ending now... -DM

LMFAO........ hahahahahahahahahaha ........... ...... i had no idea your title thingy said anything about cheese when i wrote that.................lol........... maybe on a subconscious level i'm too subtle..... even for myself

i was just being weird when i wrote the cheese comment

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I have seen the issue. It isn't referred to as an "infinity mass punch," Flash increases his inertial mass in the Speed Force. Before he does this, he runs around the world twice.

Mass is constant. It does not increase, or decrease. If it were truly an "infinite mass punch," Zum would have been killed upon contact. Then, the Flash would collapse under his own gravity, pulling the entire galaxy into a black hole like none the universe has ever seen.


Can you give an issue in which Flash uses this power?

actually that was when he used it and he explained that it he increased his mass to infintity,flash facts he called them, mind you he didnt give it an official name as to say i, wally west, have an attack called "infinty mass punch", but its just for the sake of comic fans ppl just say hmm, he punched somebody while he increased his mass to infinty so that must mean its an IMP.its the equivalent to when ppl say TOAA instead of the one above all, its not officially in any MArvel publications but it is widley accpeted in comicdom.... plus you gotta realize that Zum is a martian and thier invulnerablity is on par with superman's so it isnt unbeliveable that he would survive an attack like that

What's the issue number? I would really like to get it. You know which one I'm talking about.

back to the battle though flash has been frozen before. namely when he and superman were racing the weather wizard froze both of them cold tho they were traveling at incredibly high speeds super man used his heat vision and flash just vibrated his molecules at superspeed and got out of the block of ice.

the only solace iceman could take from this is that flash wouldnt be able to kill him, cuz he would just reform no matter what, but he would get his face smashed in a million times over. the most profound thing flash could do to him his speed up his molecules and burn him, and his moisture off into the atmosphere, if he turns himself into vapor same thing.

also, delving back into the race between him and supes when they where in the antarctic, flash commented that his aura protected him from the extreme cold so maybe,just maybe iceman wouldnt be able to affect flash's moisture, plus flash can metabolize his injures like he had a healing factor.

and another thing in teen titans when flash was trying to get a hold of impulse and they were running across the SF bay,--impulse said "did you know when water is boiled into a steam the volume increases about sixteen hundred times and transfers the energy between molecules into whatver it hits"

then he ran a couple of superspeed circles around flash then sploosh! this big column of water just sent them flying so if iceman turns into vapor, cold vapor he would just boil him into steam and disperse his molecules all over the place.

iceman wont die tho, and would just rematerialze, and if iceman drains flash's moisture he can metablize himslef by accelerating his healing process . or flash could just say F it and do to him what he did to Savitar and just send him in the speed force, and that would be the end of iceman, but for the sake of normalcy i go with a draw

Originally posted by nigel45
What's the issue number? I would really like to get it. You know which one I'm talking about.

i dont remember the precise issue but check out JLA volume 1: New World Order

Iceman doesnt just freeze people by that i mean encase them in a block of ice. He can freeze them down to a molecular level. Similar to what happens with liquid nitrogen. If he does that to flash then the flash is done for.

yeh but flash has learned to keep his molecules in a contant state of vibration anyway thats why he is able to travel thru time accurately, and not get lost so the friction that wouuld be created from that vibration would counteract the molecule freezing

plus he has an endless supply of energy so he doesn't ahev to worry about tiring out

Originally posted by manjaro
actually that was when he used it and he explained that it he increased his mass to infintity,flash facts he called them, mind you he didnt give it an official name as to say i, wally west, have an attack called "infinty mass punch", but its just for the sake of comic fans ppl just say hmm, he punched somebody while he increased his mass to infinty so that must mean its an IMP.its the equivalent to when ppl say TOAA instead of the one above all, its not officially in any MArvel publications but it is widley accpeted in comicdom.... plus you gotta realize that Zum is a martian and thier invulnerablity is on par with superman's so it isnt unbeliveable that he would survive an attack like that

From what I have seen, he didn't say that he was increasing his mass to infinity. Even if he said so, Flash isn't the brightest bulb. It was likely hyperbole.


Not even Superman would survive an object with infinite mass traveling at lightspeed.

Force = mass x acceleration.

Therefore, if mass = infinity, Force = infinity

The force it would exert would be infinite; infinitely more forceful than any attack Superman had ever experienced. If Flash really had "infinite mass" and was moving at lightspeed, he would have killed Zum upon impact. Zum would have been reduced to subatomic particles by such a punch, and so would Superman.

Mass is constant, it does not increase. However, inertial mass increases as one approaches lightspeed. Perhaps his inertial mass increased, adding power fo his punch, but it is impossible to increase mass.

"Infinite mass" is purely hyperbole.

HWFF!

lol HWFF!

no theres no real difference between inertial mass and normal mass, because movement is reletive. if indeed flash was travelling at lightspeed or higher his force wuold be infinite in his punch, meaning that he would punch things out of existnace or out of the tie line, he wud infact be so strong that the energy in that punch would not feal the dimension of time at all and could virtually destroey any matter or warp space, but thas just complete bullshit, flash is not that powerful,

Didn't really understand what you meant, but there is a definite difference between inertial mass and mass.

Mass is constant, inertial mass isn't.
Mass has gravitational pull, inertial mass doesn't.

Both resist acceleration, and both apply force, but that doesn't mean they are the same.

I agree. If Flash can do all the things people claim he can, he is unquestionably the most powerful non-divine person in the DCU.

Yeah flash can do all those things they say he can do. His speed force aura allows him to break the laws of physics. IceMan is almost his antithesis. While can give speed to molecules Iceman can take it away. I agree with almost everything, I've read here. Except throwing Iceman into the speed force. 1. I've only seen it done to other speedsters. 2. I think it would be kind of dangerous to put your enemy in the speed force. I know of at least two speedsters that have escaped and sought revenge. 3. Besides the speed force dimension is still a place that can be frozen to absolute zero (all molecules stopped) what would happen to Flash's power then.

flash

ACCESS TRANSPORTS INTO THE ARENA AND ALMALGAMATES THEM TOGETHER!!!!

well this is a deathmatch right? and flash cant physically do something to Iceman, and Iceman cant do nothing to Flash....sort of....Flash doesnt know about Icemans mouisture inversion, and in the time it takes him to figure it out iceman will have entered his body through his nostrils, or mouth and then expands into his iceform making himself a hulking ice sculpture making Flash explode(nice twist on my opinion of flash exploding people...lol)

This all depends on which Flash it is. Flash Prime would kick anyones ass. Wally the God Boy is his servant. He would warpspeed slap LT, much less Iceman.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
This all depends on which Flash it is. Flash Prime would kick anyones ass. Wally the God Boy is his servant. He would warpspeed slap LT, much less Iceman.
i heard it is much similar to the sword of heaven superman uses but Omniscent in nature.

did you see what happend to Spectre man shit that was amazing

Lol, Spectre got his ass handed to him while the Presence was powering him! Talk about an embarassment.

I would think since it just says flash that its wally west, the Flash....and if it is then Iceman would win in my opinion, but it could go either way....

no Wally West is flash prime.

I am referring to flash from the current comic book, the one that belongs to JLA and the JLE-what's left of them. But I am curious to know where have you been reading about flash prime, I don't know anything about his power level and what of superman's sword of heaven? Is this a new kingdom come? I haven't even read the first one.

flash might have infinite energy to fight off of but if iceman can sends things to absolute zero which is the absence of energy i say iceman

wally has been flash since '95 so its a given that when you say flash you're talking about him. as to sending iceman in the speed force i was thinking more or less that flash would speed him up first, but then again i remember that the more speed he gives the more it cuts into his own supply,

but also then again not only is the speed force infinte, it was shown in JLA#25(crisis times five) the speed force wall is the base for the 5th dimension, the barrier in between 3rd and 5th if you will, so it isnt a place where iceman could "freeze" if sent there as it is another dimension altogether, it wasnt expounded upon so i WONT assume that the speed force is the 4th dimension. but, i think it is a possiblity, albiet a remote one that flash could send him there and leave him lost in time. the only drawback tho is that iceman could F around and master the speed force and come back to haunt him.

and on another note superman prime's sword is name the sword of truth