Billy Cobham and "Best Drummer."

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amd9999

Alpha Centauri
Yeah, coz I'm sure none of us had heard anything of Billy Cobham or his works.

Of course there can be such a thing as Best Drummer. If you break down ability, you can clearly see what drummers are better than others.

-AC

amd9999
Newsflash: Billy Cobham is virtually an unknown by many musicians. So is Dennis Chambers. So are many great musicians.

Anyone who thinks that there is a best drummer, best guitarist, etc., doesn't know much about music.

That's just about as dumb as the "fastest drummer" thing.

When you are 16 years old, you can say that someone is the best ______ (whatever). But if you know anything about music, you realize that there are too many subjective and objective variables in music to make such a statement.




Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, coz I'm sure none of us had heard anything of Billy Cobham or his works.

Of course there can be such a thing as Best Drummer. If you break down ability, you can clearly see what drummers are better than others.

-AC

KharmaDog
Originally posted by amd9999
there are too many subjective and objective variables in music to make such a statement.

I totally agree.

To claim that one is the best drummer or guitarist is also a moot task because no one person is familiar with all of the world's guitarists and drummers. I often used to say that there is someone sitting in a garage somewhere who could be one of the greatest musicians alive, but whether it is a lack of exposure, desire to be famous or some other reason they will never be recognized.

A very good friend of mine is the third most talented guitarist that I have ever seen play live (the first two are Lindsay Buckinham and Stevie Ray Vaughn). He loves to play, it is all that he does other than work, eat, sleep and play golf, but he does not wish to be famous, or play as a career. There are many musicians out there in the world such as he.

Alpha Centauri
There aren't many guitarists in the world such as Jimi Hendrix or Eddie Van Halen.

If you believe there are or there could be just based off "Well we don't know them ALL", then you really don't know much of music.

If someone can do things with an instrument that no one else could do, or make music with that instrument that nobody else could do, that makes them the greatest.

-AC

amd9999
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...could do, that makes them the greatest.

-AC

The greatest in your opinion, perhaps. KharmaDog's post was very well written. He hit the nail on the head with that.

In my opinion, John McLaughlin is best guitarist that I have ever seen or heard. What does that mean to the average dude? Not much!

Certainly there are musicians who are better than others. But when you get up into the upper tier, such as Rich-Cobham-Chambers-Williams, etc., it becomes more a matter of whose style you prefer.

Alpha Centauri
Well... it doesn't change the fact that Jimi Hendrix did things on a guitar that nobody before and nobody since. There are better TECHNICAL guitarists, but overall he's widely accepted to be the best. It's as borderline official as you'll get.

No drummer I've ever seen or heard can do what Terry Bozzio does on a drum kit, technically. Even if they could learn it, they couldn't have come up with it. Which is my point.

Yes, just because I don't know all the musicians in the world, doesn't mean there isn't anyone better, right? Well, doesn't mean there is either.

-AC

KharmaDog
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

If you believe there are or there could be just based off "Well we don't know them ALL", then you really don't know much of music.


Actually I know quite abit about music, just because I disagree with you does not mean that your knowledge of music is superior to mine or anyone elses'.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

If someone can do things with an instrument that no one else could do, or make music with that instrument that nobody else could do, that makes them the greatest.

-AC

No it doesn't. If a guy gets up on stage and shoves a Gibson up his ass (a feat that no one has done before) he is not looked upon as a great guitarist. People who bring something "new" to the way an instrument is played is considered an innovator. An innovator may be looked upon later in years as truly great.

But to be "The Greatest" means that someone would have to play with the innovation of Hendrix, the technical ability of Clapton, the soul of SRV, the heart of B.B., the dexterity of Methany, the improvasational aptitude of Buckingham and the combinations of of other traits from a thousand guitarists. That person does not exist, that person will never exist.

Sorry, I know we're talking about drummers, but I am an axe-man myself so I refered to guitarists to try to make my point.

Alpha Centauri
Originally posted by KharmaDog
Actually I know quite abit about music, just because I disagree with you does not mean that your knowledge of music is superior to mine or anyone elses'.

The 'you' was general. Stop making assumptions, you know what they say about assumptions.

No, disagreeing with me doesn't mean you're inferior in any way, nor would I try to make it seem such. It is possible to have superior musical knowledge however. Seeing as neither of us really know how far the other's musical knowledge extends, I don't think we can make those calls, or that it would matter if we could.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
No it doesn't. If a guy gets up on stage and shoves a Gibson up his ass (a feat that no one has done before) he is not looked upon as a great guitarist. People who bring something "new" to the way an instrument is played is considered an innovator. An innovator may be looked upon later in years as truly great.

Possibly the worst analogy I've ever seen, and that's saying something. It has nothing to do with musical or instrumental aptitude, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Yeah, loads of innovators are truly great but originators are the best innovators. I'm innovative when it comes to KMC, I single handedly brought about an addition to the way KMC works with the way I post. It doesn't mean I can go and create another KMC.

Working with what's there, regardless of how well you do it, will hardly ever be as good as someone who made the things you're working with.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
But to be "The Greatest" means that someone would have to play with the innovation of Hendrix, the technical ability of Clapton, the soul of SRV, the heart of B.B., the dexterity of Methany, the improvasational aptitude of Buckingham and the combinations of of other traits from a thousand guitarists. That person does not exist, that person will never exist.

That would be the undeniable, factual best guitarist. Obviously there isn't a factual best, but there is one who is viewed as the best unquestionably. That man is Hendrix.

Given that he died in his mid 20s and had already done things that are unmatched today, pretty much says it all for me.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Sorry, I know we're talking about drummers, but I am an axe-man myself so I refered to guitarists to try to make my point.

Yeah, apologies for derailing a bit. Is all within context though.

-AC

KharmaDog
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Possibly the worst analogy I've ever seen, and that's saying something. It has nothing to do with musical or instrumental aptitude, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

It is a over exagerated example that doing something new and different does not make you nessecarily great. Possibly a bad example, but it made me laugh when I thought of it, so I just had to write it down.

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