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why does nearly everyone hate the prequels, even i know hate them and haven't even seen them. If anything they are an improvement on the originals. i love them to bit!

anyone agree?

i LOVE the PT, in terms of SE they are an improvement but the movies themselves cant touch the originals

but how can you say you love 'em when you havent even seen 'em?

Originally posted by barand1
why does nearly everyone hate the prequels, even i know hate them and haven't even seen them. If anything they are an improvement on the originals. i love them to bit!

anyone agree?

Whoa, wait a second, you haven't even seen them?

Originally posted by barand1
why does nearly everyone hate the prequels, even i know hate them and haven't even seen them. If anything they are an improvement on the originals. i love them to bit!

anyone agree?

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~me7m-hrby/link/c3po.jpg

"I am fluent in six million forms of communication. This signal is not used by the Alliance. It could be an Imperial code."

so true!

The prequals are cool movies. They have awesome Special Effects and they have much better space battles and lightsaber battles and fight scenes than the originals. However the originals had better storylines and there was something special about them. The Prequal Trilogy not only has some really crappy dialogue but George used a bit to much CGI. But there still Star Wars and very good movies in my books. Not as good as the originals though.

just to set the message straight, yes i have seen them

Originally posted by Da_Guru
The prequals are cool movies. They have awesome Special Effects and they have much better space battles and lightsaber battles and fight scenes than the originals. However the originals had better storylines and there was something special about them. The Prequal Trilogy not only has some really crappy dialogue but George used a bit to much CGI. But there still Star Wars and very good movies in my books. Not as good as the originals though.

I agree

you agree with what? ME?

No he agrees with Da_Guru

The PT RULES!

Make the PT with the OT technology, and the PT would not last a week in the theatre.

this is an interesting article about PT vs. OT: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7383411/page/2/

The PT is awesosome. We have understandings of new characters, old ones, and a better understanding of the force in general. Plus, knowing the origins of the characters makes you appreciate them that much more.

The OT is awesome because, it started it all. Each character was well casted, they had incredible chemistry, and the story itself is just awesome. I think the OT has a better story with more heart. However, I think that with episode 3, we'll finally have the SWS (Star Wars Saga) and when you sit down and watch all 6 in a row, you'll truly appreciate each movie that much more.

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
The PT is awesosome. We have understandings of new characters, old ones, and a better understanding of the force in general. Plus, knowing the origins of the characters makes you appreciate them that much more.

The OT is awesome because, it started it all. Each character was well casted, they had incredible chemistry, and the story itself is just awesome. I think the OT has a better story with more heart. However, I think that with episode 3, we'll finally have the SWS (Star Wars Saga) and when you sit down and watch all 6 in a row, you'll truly appreciate each movie that much more.

Well said. And that comes down to another point that i've been on in the past few days.

Han Solo doesn't fit. He just doesn't fit. You have Yoda, who was there all along, you have Ben (Obi-Wan) who was there all along. You have Luke and Leia the twins of the Queen of naboo, and Darth Vader. You've got the droids, R2-D2 Upgraded by Darth Vader, and C-3PO, built by Darth Vader.

Han Solo is an empty being, and I find it very annoying that he's a main character. It's like WHAT THE ****? WHO ARE YOU? What are you doing here? What do you have to do with anything that's been going on in the last 6 hours of movies.

And he goes around doing his business, as though hes a main character (which he is unfortunetaly) but he has nothing behind him. I HATE HIM.

WTF!?! He only takes Luke and Obi-Wan to the death star, helps Luke destroy the Death Star, saves Leia from Hoth, and helps destroy the Empire for good!

Not every OT character needs their backstory explained in the PT... in fact I thinks it's better that it isn't explained. It makes him more mysterious.

Yes, he's a scoundrel; a really cool one by the way.

Oh, he also falls in love with Leia so that should count for something.

I like the prequals better than the original trilogy and i seriously think that Star Wars Episode III: Revenge Of The Sith will be the best Star Wars movie ever the prequals have more action than the originals thats why i like them better...

Originally posted by macgeek2005
Well said. And that comes down to another point that i've been on in the past few days.

Han Solo doesn't fit. He just doesn't fit. You have Yoda, who was there all along, you have Ben (Obi-Wan) who was there all along. You have Luke and Leia the twins of the Queen of naboo, and Darth Vader. You've got the droids, R2-D2 Upgraded by Darth Vader, and C-3PO, built by Darth Vader.

Han Solo is an empty being, and I find it very annoying that he's a main character. It's like WHAT THE ****? WHO ARE YOU? What are you doing here? What do you have to do with anything that's been going on in the last 6 hours of movies.

And he goes around doing his business, as though hes a main character (which he is unfortunetaly) but he has nothing behind him. I HATE HIM.

Whoa... Han doesn't fit? Um, Sorry bud, but Han helped make SW what it is today. It's sad that you really don't appreciate his worth in the OT. Only reason I can think of is you watched the PT first. Honestly, Han Solo is one of the best characters out there IMO. Now I'm not saying he's better than "blah so and so" but his character was played extremely well and it gives you insight on a basically unknown part/type of person of the SW universe, well if you watched the PT first that is.



On a side note....Maaaan, I drink too much.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
this is an interesting article about PT vs. OT: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7383411/page/2/

Its commentary like that, that also makes me very appreciative the saga is ending.

We never again have to listned to or read "Know it all Critics" and their "masters of the Universe" comments on what is good and what sucks.

Sure the PT could have been better, but it also could have been way worse. The amount of shit those movies get is down right appalling.

A couple years MSNBC had readers pole or something (I don't remember what it exactly was), but it was top 10 worst sequels of all time. With #1 being the worst and #10 being considered a better movie.
The Phantom Menace scored at #2, just slightly better than Batman and Robin at #1.

So tell me something guys. Since 98% of us have seen TPM, would you consider Speed 2: cruise control, Jaws 3, and Superman 4 are better movies than Episode 1? I don't think so.

personally, I like the PT better. now i'll admit, i like it cause well, its more exciting. i love jedi, and i love lightsaber duels, so im kinda a sucker for the PT. however, u have to realise that lucas is trying to make these not separate stories, its supposed to be one story, an epic story...and that it most definitely is. i think one of the greatest moments in ROTS will be right at the end...'A New Hope' when we see Obi-wan walking with luke in the sand, alone, the last hope of the galaxy. thats what the PT is about, not about anakin, not about obi wan or yoda or sidious, its to show the peace that was, and the peace that was lost. that even after all that happens in the PT there is still hope. that scene will touch the fans of the OT, and in that i think lucas hit the nail on the head.

OT: Han fits perfectly, because he's suave, humorous, and a bad ass on so many levels. and he doesn't need the force.

as for PT: seeing hella Jedi rushing into a battle is the SHEEEEEEEEEEEIZNNNNNNNNNNNIZZZLE I don't care if you hated AOTC, seeing all those Jedi rush into a melee like that was awesome.

Originally posted by macgeek2005
Well said. And that comes down to another point that i've been on in the past few days.

Han Solo doesn't fit. He just doesn't fit. You have Yoda, who was there all along, you have Ben (Obi-Wan) who was there all along. You have Luke and Leia the twins of the Queen of naboo, and Darth Vader. You've got the droids, R2-D2 Upgraded by Darth Vader, and C-3PO, built by Darth Vader.

Han Solo is an empty being, and I find it very annoying that he's a main character. It's like WHAT THE ****? WHO ARE YOU? What are you doing here? What do you have to do with anything that's been going on in the last 6 hours of movies.

And he goes around doing his business, as though hes a main character (which he is unfortunetaly) but he has nothing behind him. I HATE HIM.

CHOP OFF THOSE TYPING FINGERS
HAN (and chewie)RULES!
As a 70s SW kid the SW experiance wouldnt have been the same without SOLO.
Guess its that old prequels first thing again.
Its 6 years since TPM and i still aint figured if i like it or not.

i think alot of people don't like the prequels because alot of movies have tried to copy Star Wars since its release in 1977.

so when PM came out in 99 people were not really swept of their feet compared to the originals, because nothing else had been seen like that (Star Wars '77).

plus the fans from the originals were much older than they were back in 77, so things look and feel different when your much older.

do you understand??

Originally posted by macgeek2005
Well said. And that comes down to another point that i've been on in the past few days.

Han Solo doesn't fit. He just doesn't fit. You have Yoda, who was there all along, you have Ben (Obi-Wan) who was there all along. You have Luke and Leia the twins of the Queen of naboo, and Darth Vader. You've got the droids, R2-D2 Upgraded by Darth Vader, and C-3PO, built by Darth Vader.

Han Solo is an empty being, and I find it very annoying that he's a main character. It's like WHAT THE ****? WHO ARE YOU? What are you doing here? What do you have to do with anything that's been going on in the last 6 hours of movies.

And he goes around doing his business, as though hes a main character (which he is unfortunetaly) but he has nothing behind him. I HATE HIM.

macgeek, you have reached a new high with your stupidity. Well done.

The Star Wars universe is getting smaller and smaller as it is. Darth Vader builds C3PO, Boba Fetts dad is the original stormtrooper. Nothing seems to be like an adventure any more.

Thank the Lord that Han Solo is still Solo and not a long distant cousin of Chewbacca - but I bet that would be good to you macgeek.

Clown shoe wearring fool.

Originally posted by Da_Guru
The prequals are cool movies. They have awesome Special Effects and they have much better space battles and lightsaber battles and fight scenes than the originals. However the originals had better storylines and there was something special about them. The Prequal Trilogy not only has some really crappy dialogue but George used a bit to much CGI. But there still Star Wars and very good movies in my books. Not as good as the originals though.

ya know, that just about sums up what i think of the prequels. The dialogue was the main downfall of the PT, but they are still Star Wars and they gave me that same feeling when i first watched the originals. I actually think the storylines in TPM and AOTC were very well done. Palpatines rise to power, Darth Maul, Qui-Gon, the fall of Anakin Skywalker and Yoda's best line in the PT (imho) "Fear is the path to the Darkside. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate. Hate.....leads to suffering.." - that has to be the one and only memorable piece of dialogue of the Prequels yet

oh and macgeek? just for the record, HAN SOLO KICKS UR ASS, KICKS MY ASS, KICKS EVERYONES ASS! how could you hate him? he IS star wars

EDIT

If you are a true fan of star wars, then you should like the prequels, they have all the same elements of the OT, action at the beginning, story, action in the middle, story, action at the end and close. There was a review done by a couple of comic book guys from Calgary when TPM came out and they said there was no story, no character development and too many special effects and creatures??? these are the kind of so called fans that give SW a bad name. TPM had a good story, no character development, what did we learn about Han Solo that he was the captain of the Falcon and that's it. too many special effects and creatures??? This is frigin Star Wars thats what it is. in my opinion the order of the films from best to worst are 3,5,2,4,1,6
but that is my opinion and it will vary from person to person, but if you are a fan of the OT and hated the first 2 PT movies why would you go see #3, but if you are a true fan then you should love both triolgies

They are a disgrace to the originals...theres no comparison. Episode 3 better fix that error...

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
this is an interesting article about PT vs. OT: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7383411/page/2/

Great article and how true. GL continues to say how critics have always hated Star Wars, but the OT got great reviews, and the original Star Wars even made it to AFI's top 100 list of all time. No, George, its the new ones that havent gotten THAT great of critical acclaim and for good reasons...even though critics really did like them overall, just not a lot like the old ones, which sums up my feelings exactly.

What I find so brilliant about Star Wars is how everybody is connected with the Tragedy from Episode III, EXCEPT for Han Solo. grrrrrr

Which makes the Star Wars universe....a small world after all. That's what I think is so lame about the prequels. Lucas felt he had to connect everyone in the PT with the OT somehow so that it feels like a small ass universe. Anakin makes 3PO, Chewie meets up with Yoda in Episode 3, etc. Which makes no sense, seeing as though Chewie doesn't know who they are in ANH, Darth Vader does not recognize 3PO at all, and now they are throwing it in that 3PO has his memory erased so that things will flow in ANH. Nope. Wrong. How come Owen Lars doesn't recognize 3PO or R2? In reality, he's really screwed things up trying to do this. The point is not supposed to be that they all knew each other. Thank God that they didn't have Han Solo in Episode 3.

This is something many new fans think is great, but which I think is a bad idea.

^ I agree, having Han in Ep III like Lucas had originally written woulda been going too far... actually Chewie was too far

Tarkin is OK, Mon Mothma I can live with, Greedo was stupid, I'm glad they cut that outta TPM, Boba Fett was unneeded...

Yes forgot some more there. Tarkin is definately ok as he would be there, as would Mon Mothma.

And yes Boba Fett was going too far. He was cool as a side character not a major character....

Hunchy is a prime example of a star wars fan that doesn't understand star wars.
Boba Fett was not a major character in any of the movies, it was cool to see where he came from and how is armor and him are tied into the OT.
If Chewie meets up with Yoda in EPIII, he doesn't see yoda in ANH so how can you say he doesn't know who they are, that makes no sense.
we don't know if he meets up with Obi-wan in EPIII.
Darth does not recognize C3PO, of course cause there are tons of droids out there that look like him so why would he care, if you see a red mustang and then 20 years later you see another doesn't mean it's the same car and you wouldn't care
Owen doesn't recognize C3PO or R2. first off in episode II he only sees R2 for about a minute, and as for C3PO, he never introduced himself to owen and again there are tons of droids that look like him and R2.
perhaps you should use your head, it's not that difficult to see what's going on.

this..this is BLASPHEMY!!! Han Solo takes obi wan and luke to rescue the princess!! he is Princess Leia's Love intrest!! he is a frickin general!! he made the first death star destruction possible!! he rescues luke from the elements on hoth!! he is the main plot point for the first bit of return of the jed!! and he was a space gunslinger !!! how could he NOT be a Main Character!! When someone has a lot of screeen time they HAve to become a Main character i suppose! what would you rather:
some nobody background dude did all the things ive just mentioned? You surely would still be saying WHAT THE ****? WHO ARE YOU?, would u not???

Originally posted by darthmaul1
Hunchy is a prime example of a star wars fan that doesn't understand star wars.
Boba Fett was not a major character in any of the movies, it was cool to see where he came from and how is armor and him are tied into the OT.
If Chewie meets up with Yoda in EPIII, he doesn't see yoda in ANH so how can you say he doesn't know who they are, that makes no sense.
we don't know if he meets up with Obi-wan in EPIII.
Darth does not recognize C3PO, of course cause there are tons of droids out there that look like him so why would he care, if you see a red mustang and then 20 years later you see another doesn't mean it's the same car and you wouldn't care
Owen doesn't recognize C3PO or R2. first off in episode II he only sees R2 for about a minute, and as for C3PO, he never introduced himself to owen and again there are tons of droids that look like him and R2.
perhaps you should use your head, it's not that difficult to see what's going on.
but we didn't need to see where Boba Fett came from... he's supposed to be a mysterious character.

I agree with Hunchy, it makes the Star Wars universe so small that everyone's connected.

Originally posted by Ogami Itto
this..this is BLASPHEMY!!! Han Solo takes obi wan and luke to rescue the princess!! he is Princess Leia's Love intrest!! he is a frickin general!! he made the first death star destruction possible!! he rescues luke from the elements on hoth!! he is the main plot point for the first bit of return of the jed!! and he was a space gunslinger !!! how could he NOT be a Main Character!! When someone has a lot of screeen time they HAve to become a Main character i suppose! what would you rather:
some nobody background dude did all the things ive just mentioned? You surely would still be saying WHAT THE ****? WHO ARE YOU?, would u not???
yup... well said. this is stupid

Originally posted by darthmaul1
Hunchy is a prime example of a star wars fan that doesn't understand star wars.
Boba Fett was not a major character in any of the movies, it was cool to see where he came from and how is armor and him are tied into the OT.
If Chewie meets up with Yoda in EPIII, he doesn't see yoda in ANH so how can you say he doesn't know who they are, that makes no sense.
we don't know if he meets up with Obi-wan in EPIII.
Darth does not recognize C3PO, of course cause there are tons of droids out there that look like him so why would he care, if you see a red mustang and then 20 years later you see another doesn't mean it's the same car and you wouldn't care
Owen doesn't recognize C3PO or R2. first off in episode II he only sees R2 for about a minute, and as for C3PO, he never introduced himself to owen and again there are tons of droids that look like him and R2.
perhaps you should use your head, it's not that difficult to see what's going on.

Thanks for backing me Dodo. Exactly Boba Fett was not a major character in any of the movies. He doesn't need anymore than that. It's not that I don't understand Star Wars just because I don't agree with you. It's not the point of who meets up with whom, its just the fact that Chewie knew Yoda who is of course connected to the others, who is from the main group from the originals.

Now your just trying to cover up for GL's mistakes that he tried to explain in the PT. Your wrong. Darth Vader doesn't recognize 3PO because when they made the OT, it wasn't planned that he had created him.

And now here's where you don't make any sense. Owen Lars, his dad, and his "girlfriend" (another great line from the PT "Hello. This is my girlfriend" own 3PO. So obviously they DO know him. Point after point, when they made the OT, none of this was thought up. It was simply thought up for the PT. You must obviously be a new fan....

I think it's cool to see that Boba's armor comes from the old clone trooper armor,
Who did Lucas tie in that makes the galaxy small? C3PO to anakin and Chewie meeting Yoda if he does i don't know. and Boba Fett thats all that I can think of
The star wars story is centralized around the skywalker family so the galaxy has to be small if it was huge then it would be dumb of how these people meet up.

Do you know how many planets are in the Star Wars universe. Obviously it is huge, and obviously everyone seems to know everyone. I won't explain this again...

Is it that amazing to see that Boba's armor is the same as the clone troopers? Originally in the EU it said that it was Mandalorian armor...GL continues to change the past in the PT of his characters, events, etc.

I am an old fan of the original trilogy
I know Owen and Beru know 3PO but, I am saying they do not know it's him cause he does not introduce himself.
you can say that vader does not recognize c3po in ESB cause he probably doesn't think its him or he doesn't care, whats he going to do run up to him and say i made u?

True points, but the point I'm trying to make is that this is all cover up for the fact that this was all made up for the PT, and was not in the original plans.

Lucas has never been one to obey or listen to what is said in the EU, cause not everyone looks at that stuff. and that's fine with me.

again true, but i still think that connecting every character basically was kind of lame...

we don't know if it was part of the original plan or not. lucas probably had this all in his head from the time he called the 1977 film episode IV.

I doubt it

I highly doubt it. If it was in his plan, it would have to be after ROTJ. GL even stated in an interview recently in Premiere magazine that there were a lot of gaps he had to fill, seeing as though he said everyone was expecting the PT to all be about Anakin's fall, and according to him, Episode 1 was about "a 10 year old boy", Episode 2 was a "love story"...(if that was its main drive, you totally failed at it)....and then he realized he had to cram everything left into Episode 3, thus he made up quite a few things last minute such as 3PO's memory being erased.

In all fairness, if you were smart you would have made the Episode 1 be about them meeting Anakin in the Clone Wars, like it was originally (he was already a great pilot, not a great pod racer) 2, be about the clone wars and the fall of the republic, the rise of the empire, end with anakin's fall, then episode 3 be about him being darth vader, killing the remaining jedi, and take more time on all that, instead of cramming it all into the 3rd one, so really I think that Episode 3 is the one I've been waiting for. If you ask me, I could totally forget the first two.

i think well have to agree to disagree
and the gaps he's talking about is making it so EPIII flows nicely into EPIV
and in all fairness they had to do something of how the emperor comes to power.

I agree that there some things that we dont and wont have a definite answer for, but they have been handled in such away that it in no way effects the enjoyment of the movies.

Something like the droids we can all say there are a million of those kind of droids, and Owen and Beru never saw gold 3P0.

True, everyone has their own opinions. But Lucas specifically said that he had to cram in the 3PO thing so that there wouldn't be a plothole.

I'm gonna have to agree with darthmaul1 on the droid thing. There are a lot of droids out there that look like C3PO and R2. It would be easy for the Lars family to forget about them two and not recognize them. It would also be very simple for Darth to do it. The red mustang tihng was a good example of how it would be these days.

But for the memory erase thing, was R2s memory erased as well? And what of the part where Obi One says that he never saw those two droids before? He spent a good time of his earlier years in the company of Anikan and those droids. Did Lucas ever find a way to explain that?

For the Small universe thing, I like to think as each planet as a city in their civilization and the planet being a state or province (depending where you're from). It's not rare to run into someone you're somehow connected to (at least not where I am from). It's logical that they're all connected though, it's mainly only through the council and the force. But adding Han into the prequals would be going too far. I have to agree on that. And Boba was useless in the PT.

I'm not sure if R2 has his memory wiped I don't think so
all obiwan said was that he doesn't seem to remember ever owning a droid, but if you watch EPIV and after r2 finishes the message he gives him a look as if "holy crap this is the same droid" and at any rate what is he going to tell luke? that i was around this droid with your father and he built 3po?? yeah right.
Boba was usless in the AOTC but it's just a little thing for the fans to see where he came from and what the armor is from, I still think it would be cool if Boba would take some growth hormones and join Anakin in the attack on the Jedi Temple and that is where the braids come from on his uniform. that would be the best surprise that Sidious tells Anakin to strom the temple and here is someone that will help you and Boba steps from the shadows.

R2 does not have his memory erased (as I have read the script). The reason is that they think 3PO will talk to much and give things away: aka Luke and Leia's birth.

There is no explanation of Obi Wan not knowing them either, another huge flaw. I don't care if there's many droids that look the same, with information like that....it woudn't matter.

Darth Maul your comments about Obi Wan's reactions are going overboard. You can try and fill in the blanks when you watch it if you want, but obviously they made the original Star Wars before that was planned out or else there would be Obi Wan's real reaction to it.

Boba Fett was indeed useless in the PT. And as for him helping Anakin storm the Jedi Temple, uhhhh.......

Mostly everything in the PT is great except for a few things...

Casting...very suspect. Jake Lloyd was forgettable, not mention annoying, and his successor gave us a lackluster performance in Ep II. I really hope Hayden is better in Ep III...the success of that movie really depends on how believable his dark side is. The scenes depicting his anger in AOTC were a real let-down for me...too much whiny, sissy nonsense that just makes me cringe. Natalie Portman is okay at best...but her building romance with Hayden has been cringeful as well...they just don't seem to gel, IMO. I'll wait until ROTS to judge Samuel L. Jackson...but I like what I see so far.

Dialogue...absolutely atrocious at times...especially between Anakin and Padme. Too bad they killed off Qui-Gon...Liam Neeson was clearly the strongest actor in TPM, and some of his dialogue was just great. The trust and faith his character held in the Force was very believable.

CGI...too much, way too much. The very definition of overkill. Don't even get me started on Jar Jar.

Lord S, you sumed up every point I agree with, as far as what faults I have with the movies, besides the fact that I wouldn't say they were great.

How about have NOBODY like Han Solo because he just doesn't fit, and instead of Luke and Leia, and R2 and 3PO, destroy the Empire. hmm? All the characters connected the tragedy from Episode III perhaps? Not some random grumpy guy who doesn't know anything about the tragedys of the past.

Han Solo is really starting to piss me off, more and more.

go away! you're not a star wars fan!

Definately not. Where's those stones?

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
go away! you're not a star wars fan!

Very nicely put.

I agree with everyone on the fact that there was too much CGI. It's awesome for the space battles and a few aliens, but for mostly the whole movie, it is over kill.

casting could of been alittle better as well. Ewan is good as Obi-One in my opinion. So is Natalie as Padme. Only real problem I have is Anikan. Some of his delivery of his lines is just so very poor.

Yup, very much agree with the CGI.. overkill.

the acting... I think more of it comes down to the direction and writing... with what they had to work with they didn't do too bad.

How is the CG overkill?? this is star wars what do you want matt paintings? you can't even tell that the back grounds are CG, unless you are a complete dork and watch the whole movie frame by frame.

My main problem with the new ones is that it feels like a forced, small universe.

Star Wars, when I first saw it, was an adventure, into the unknown, and cahracters were picked up along the way, and the plot was pieced together. It was so much more fun for me.

The new ones fill in the gaps. They don't work as stand alone narratives, because they go by what has already been done. Lucas can try and make it a saga you can watch from 1-6, but it just doesn't work in practice.

The OT is the bulk of the story. The PT fills in those gaps, and (tries to) answer the questions we make after seeing the OT. There needs to be the stimulus (OT) and the response (PT). It doesn't work the other way around, it just comes across as clunky, and forced.

Han Solo is one of the finest characters in Star Wars. In fact, even after all these years I am still in awe with the character. The fact that he is like the maverick from the old westerns. A lovable, gunslinging rogue, with a sly wit and isn't afraid to speak his mind.

Han Solo exudes charisma. He is a fantastic character. He was created as one half of Luke Skywalker - the antagonist, who would always argue and bicker and have great banter with the hero.

I am so glad that Han Solo isn't going to be in Episode III. He's the one of the very few characters that has remained largely intact and will still have that "unlikely pairring" with Luke Skywalker. Han Solo will be one of the very few characters left that actually keep the Star Wars Universe wide and open and keep that sense of adventure.

I can't believe people dissed Han Solo. God will punish you when you die, remember that.

I agree with everything you said Superfly!

Originally posted by darthmaul1
How is the CG overkill?? this is star wars what do you want matt paintings? you can't even tell that the back grounds are CG, unless you are a complete dork and watch the whole movie frame by frame.

I'm not gonna discuss CG in this thread, if you wanna debate with me about it go here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=335340&goto=lastpost
and who said anything about the backgrounds!?!

duh they fill the gaps thats the point, to tell the back story of how anakin becomes vader, how the republic becomes the empire and how palps/sidious becomes the emperor
Stand alone narratives? do you mean you can watch EP VI and none of the rest and thats ok?

ANH is great even as a stand alone film

thats true but you couldn't watch 5 or 6 as a stand alone
and since 123 is completing a saga of course they can't be by themselves
STAR WARS is meant to be watch as a complete saga of 6 movies.

yea, I totally agree with that... that it's one big story (a saga if you will) told in six parts.

I think ESB works as a stand alone, not so much ROTJ...

Honestly, the dialogue in the prequels are terrible. The films also seem to be more like an excuse to show off pretty visuals. Also, Lucas didn't do that good of a job with letting the audience connect with the characters. There aren't many ways the viewer can relate to characters like Anakin, Obi-Wan, or Qui Gon Jinn. And I don't blame Lucas for "destorying" the Star Wars saga, it's just very difficult to accomplish that with a storyline and world such as this. Although I can admit, it could have been executed a lot better. Better writing and better direction would have improved these films immensely.

Damn good point fezster.

Anakin has many human sides to him, but the fact that hes some sort of chosen one, a slave and has such an odd lifestyle makes him hard to relate to.

Luke and Han had much more tangable, identifyable characters. thats what I think makes them connect on a better level with the audeince.

I agree that the characters are hard to relate to, but I still find myself loving them. I'm still gonna shed a tear during the Obi-One/Anikan fight. I'm still going to get teary eyed when Mace kicks the bucket. Even though I can't relate to them, I still love 'em.

But for the CG, I consider it overkill because i like the cheesy alien masks of the original better. Just my opinion.

Yes thats true. But Lucas wanted to make Starwars as an 12 hour movie (with 6 chapters). I think he didn't accomplish that.

I think he has got 2 movies, both 6 hour because .. well uhh. let me give an example.

In the OT, we met Darth Vader, and he changed during the saga. We get to know him and we loved him. And at the end of the saga he dies.

In the PT we get to know the father of the legendary Boba fet. But 30 minutes later we see his head rolling on the ground in some computer-made blue screen area.

It just isn't good enough for me... Jango could have been such an interesting character. (its just an example) I think Lucas should have introduced Dooku in Episode I at Qui-Gon's funeral.

OT --> "Less is more"
PT --> "OVERKIL!!"

OT --> "Less is more"
PT --> "OVERKIL!!"

Yes, I agree there Banshee. That's been my philosophy forever. Less is always more.

It's apparent in so many films. Alien, Terminator, The Exorcist, all the top films of their genre and all because the audience doesn't see an awful lot, despite the fantastical natures of them. Same thing goes for Star Wars.

The idea of visual effects is to enhance the image, whereas I feel the effects in the new Star Wars movies overwrite everything and anything in the scene, including the actors, trying their best to PRETEND they on a real set and that theres a creature stood in front of them.

I agree with most of the comments made. Superfly you bring up some great points. And while I still LIKE the prequels, there hasn't been any revelations that I was like "woah" and wasn't that the point of the prequels to tell us the missing pieces and things we didn't know. (I loved how people up till NOW still thought that Palpatine was not Sidious......Even though it was the same actor, and it was pretty obvious at many points.... Those people I couldn't debate because they were absolutely stupid.) I think they haven't really introduced anything that amazing. I totally agree that they are mostly just visual movies to (with a mixed bag of good and bad fx) see what happened pre-OT era. Episode 3 looks to be finally what we've been waiting for, as far as plot and story goes, screw Episode 1 and 2. These films are definately also CG overkill, and I prefer and love the old costumes, masks, etc. I'm glad they used some costumes for the prequels (AKA Nute Gunray, etc)...

The OT is definately were things go down. Episode 3, like I said, will also be one that will show what we've been waiting for-Anakin becoming Darth, Palptaine/Sidious becoming Emperor, and the fall of the Jedi. Really all Episode 1 did was introduce Anakin, which didn't need to be the entire movie, and then Episode 2 introduced the Clone Wars, and now we finally get to see the end result......

And I agree with the points made about films like Aliens, Terminator, Exorcist, etc. They used fx when needed, and in small doses, so that it was actually more suspensful. Jaws would be another fine example of this. The new ones, the actors don't really know how to react very well to whats going on around them, besides Ewan McGregor who does a great job of this.

Yes episode 1 introduced anakin but that was only a part of it. it showed how palps was using the trade federation to stir things up and eventually become supreme chancelor. episode 2 did more than show the clone wars it yet again showed more manipulation of palps with the jedi and senate, and padme and of course jar jar (if it wasn't for his stupidity palps wouldn't of got his emergincy powers.) it showed that palps and dooku had a thing going during the phantom menace cause dooku aka tyranus was the one who recrutied jango.
in 3 we will finally see the whole plan come together and the fall of Anakin.

Yes, all these things you mention could have been in one movie and had even more. Even GL said in Premiere magazine recently that he didn't want the first two to be about the fall of Anakin really. He likes to tell fans one thing, then screw them over later and say he never said them.

He originally said that the first three would be about the demise of Anakin Skywalker, where really its mostly in the third, unless you count Anakin's whines in the 2nd as being his fall to the dark side.

I don't think they could of put all of it in one movie
We know Anakin has an anger managment problem.
as I said the first one was his introduction and palps rise to power
the 2nd one with regard to Anakin was his displeasure with Obi-wan and the council and the loss of his mother and the killing of all the tuskens and his falling in love, all of which can potentialy lead to the dark side

Not all of it, but definately more than they did. And then we would have had more of the good stuff such as Anakin falling to the dark side, which will be relatively brief in Episode 3. But you also tried to make it sound like more plot and detail by adding the killing of all the tuskens, which is about five seconds on screen.

Reading the script for the 3rd too, I thought it was definately the best script for the prequels by far too, but it felt a little rushed when he made the final decision to turn to the dark side and a little awkard as to why he did also. But don't get me wrong, its handled very well over all. I think Episode 3 looks to be very promising.

The first one has no purpose, really. Episode II would have been the best place to kick things off. There was no need to see Anakin as a child. Lucas could have just ran a parrelel with Luke and show that he was trained much later in his life (and would show how much of risk Luke was later on, as Yoda and Ben decide to train him knowing full well the path his father took, it would accenuate that risk).

Episode I could have been removed, and nothing would have made a difference. Really - what happens in Episode I? A fake war is started, and Palpatine gets promoted, big deal. As far as Star Wars movies and plotlines go, Episode I is a non-event. Why not just bring it forward and have the Clone Wars, as a much bigger event, that causes Palpatines rise to power, rather than keep it. You'd have more time to pan out events, keep the timeline consistent, keep parrelels between Luke and Anakin. and have more room for the plot to "breathe" with character.

There's no need to have Anakin as a ten year old. It's really unecessary. It would have made more sense for Anakin to stay with his mother as much as Luke stayed with Owen and Beru. To lose her at Lukes age, after knowing her ALL of his life, would have been more heart-rending. You could tie it in to his blame of the Jedi easily too. He blames the Jedi for taking him away from his mother - it could have easily been re-written to accodmodate a better timeline. For instance, Anakin looked after his mother, and when he was on a Jedi mission he didn't agree with, she gets killed, or something. He would blame the Jedi. Maybe Obi-Wan gave him the order, or something. Having Anakin stay with his mother all through his life until she dies would be something the audience could relate to a helluva lot more, mainly because the audience could see Anakins point of view. There's always an easier solution. It would have been interesting if Anakin was a reluctant Jedi, much like Luke was. He didn't want to be a Jedi, but Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon, or whoever, insisted upon it, or something like that, because he knew it was his destiny. You could make Anakin to be a more sympathetic character, more relatable to everyone in the way Luke was, while not needing Episode I, yet still have the important bits.

Very, very, very well said. I applaude you. And how true.

hmm... you have some good points.

I think it is neccessary to show where Anakin came from, but as you said it could have been done when he was around Luke's age. Although I think it is important to show that Anakin has great Jedi abilities from a very young age.

I think it's also important that Anakin is an eager Jedi not reluctant... this shows his lust for power which is ultimately his downfall...

I guess we could sum it up like this:

Episode I: *twiddles thumbs*

Episode II: Ah, something happens at last. Nice, slow pace, maybe it'll explain more about some of the......what the? It's over already?

Episode III: Woah woah woah! Slow down! You ain't gonna have enough time for some characters going on here.... Maybe you shouldn't have wasted all that time making Jar Jar fall over in "hilarious" ways and spread this sh*t out a bit better.

I would have to say you need EPI to show the sith making their move, how palps comes into power and Anakin being pulled away from his mother. and is strong connection to the force.
There is no way you could just start with palps in power and anakin at 20, you need to see how they got there.

^ good point

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do

I think it is important to show that Anakin has great Jedi abilities from a very young age.


Why though? You could easily make Anakin a powerful Jedi when he takes up his Padawan role. Any Padawan that excels so quickly would be assumed to be amazingly gifted, right? There's no need to show Anakin doing amazing stuff at an early age, you can release all of his potential when he is at any age.

What about having Anakin at age 19, putting up a fight against Count Dooku or something, even though he's like Luke from ESB in terms of training. He puts up an amazing fight, which would seem impossible for any other Jedi given such limited training.

Having Anakin recieve minimal training and yet show natural affinity for all things Jedi would make him just as impressive as he ever was.

Originally posted by darthmaul1
I would have to say you need EPI to show the sith making their move, how palps comes into power and Anakin being pulled away from his mother. and is strong connection to the force.
There is no way you could just start with palps in power and anakin at 20, you need to see how they got there.

No you don't. That's the point. If that's the case, then why didn't they show Palpatine becoming a Senator? How did that happen? While we're at it, why didn't they show where Sidious came from? There's no need to explain so much. We really didn't need to see Palpatine become Senator, and we didn't need to see Palpatine become Chancellor. And it's obvious you didn't read anything I said about Anakins mother situation. Unecessary exposition that could have been subtely reworked to allow the events to flow more naturally.

For over twenty years, Star Wars fans have accepted the fact that The Emperor was in control, and that Luke began his training at 18(?) from day one.

I think people would have been able to accept the fact that Emperor started out as Chancellor, and Anakin started his training at 20, from day one.

cause from the starting point of EPI this is how and when Palps/sidious make their move to kill the jedi and start the empire.
and that the way it should be.

Superfly does bring up some very good points. Ep. I might of had a point if they didn't kill off the villian (Maul) and brought him through all the movies. But as far as SW movies go, it's at the bottom of my list. It really does nothing for the story.

Originally posted by darthmaul1
cause from the starting point of EPI this is how and when Palps/sidious make their move to kill the jedi and start the empire.
and that the way it should be.

I can see your point. Don't get me wrong, some of Ep I works, but man, the vast majority of it should have been left on the cutting room floor. Just some logical tweaking here and there, and you could still have all of these things occur in a more consistent timeline, and still, essentially, have the exact same plot, only with much more time to spare and spend on characterisation and more elaboration, as Episode III will be so unbelievably fast paced, it could seem forced to a lot of people, as though Lucas ran out of time. It's the pacing, that has been affected.

True true. I think it all could have been done differently...but oh well....won't happen now....Let's just hope Episode 3 dose a good job of what it does....

and for the record, I think Count Dooku is a far greater villian than Darth Maul. Darth Maul is good at fighting of course, but that makes for a better side character, than a leading villain, and who better to play it than one of the most classic villaianous actors, Christopher Lee, a truly great actor and great at dialouge. Nothing beats that voice, well except maybe James Earl Jones' of course....

The prequals were terrible, save yourself the effort and don't watch them.

I actually prefer that opinion over people who love the prequels

Originally posted by Cheesiness
The prequals were terrible, save yourself the effort and don't watch them.

i cant understand the amount of hate some of you guys have for the PT i respect each and everyone's opinion, but i personally had fun watching them as much as i did the OT.

I totaly agree stunrun the PT has all the elements of the OT with story development and characters and special effects ect.
and I enjoyed them just as much as the OT
some more than others the order for me in which I like them will be after EP3 comes out
3,5,2,4,1,6
It's a great story and lets you forget about all the crap that is going on in our world for a couple of hours or 12

If you don't like the prequels why keep watching them??
I can honestly say if I did not enjoy TPM then I would of given up and just stuck with the orginals.but this is star wars and that says it all.

Talk about jumping the gun. You haven't even seen Episode 3 yet. I still like the films, but I don't believe you can come close in comparing them to the OT. The acting is pretty wooden in the new films, minus some people most notably Ewan McGregor, and all the famous actors such as Samuel L. Jackson and Christopher Walken...Although I do believe that Hayden looks light he might pull it off better in Episode 3. I think it was mostly because he was given bad lines. Same goes for Natalie Portman. But the fx, whereas when the originals came out where the best around, and now there are far better fx movies than these Star Wars prequels which is sad really. Yes, I enjoy watching the prequels, but the OT are greater films.

Episode III is just like episode I and II.
The only difference is this movie is far more intence and we have more lightsaber fights.

We again see a Geonosis-like battle but now on Kashyyk, we have a space battle just like episode I and we again see a fake ninja turtle spinning around a sith-lord just as he did in episode II.

It's cool though... but it can NEVER EVER compare to the classic OT.

Let's face it Mark Hammill's acting was not that great, same with Carrie Fisher, Hayden was very good, but this again this is STAR WARS and we are not going to see it for the Fantastic acting.
another thing when most of us saw the OT we were kids and it has now had almost 30 years to be imbeded in our minds. Give the PT some time and you may be saying that it is fantastic, we know the kids that started with the PT will be saying that.

Indeed Darth Maul. I grew up with the OT... it is my first memory
When i was 4 i was constructing paper millenium falcons and x-wings.

The PT can never surpass the OT in my point of view.

I do love the PT, and im not affraid to admit that ok so the PT basically filled the gaps to make way for the OT, but hey! i like watching it all connect together, and to see where all the characters came to be, complete with some new characters along the way. But i totally agree with you Banshee, the PT will never surpass the originals. I had an amazing child hood because of the Originals, and you cant beat the adventure and the excitement that the Originals gave us

heres what i think the end result will be ( imho )

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
(First 2 Untouchable btw)
3. Revenge Of The Sith
4. Return Of The Jedi
5. Attack Of The Clones
6. The Phantom Menace

Yep I agree

I personally love both the OT & the PT, but then I just watch these movies for the fun of it. Plot holes, and other things people complain about dont even faze me.

I agree enjoy the movies and stop nit picking
I was just on anther forum and people were complaining about the croping in a scene where you loose1 centimeter on the side, who cares it's not as if a whole person is missing, those are the types of fans that will never like the PT
and by the way
THere are no plot holes that I can see.
if anyone wants to point one out let me know

Well Lord Banshee, I'm glad you like the OT better, but I think that your point about Episode 3 being like Episode 1 and 2 is a little off though. Yes, its like them in some ways, but it has better dialouge, Natalie Portman looks like she amotes more (she said she tried her best this time), Hayden is not whinning anymore, and the story is now about the turn of Anakin and him becoming Vader, so it differs a lot from the first two and will be a lot better thing.

My list:

1. Star Wars/Empire Strikes Back (Love 'em both, can't decide which more)
2. (Revenge of the Sith???This is just a guess remember)
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Attack of the Clones/Phantom Menace (I think the second one is darker, but the second one has a lot of flaws such as the corny love stuff, horrible dialouge, and some bad fx...)

1. Return of the Jedi
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. A New Hope
4. Attack of the Clones
5. The Phantom Menace

Reverse chronological order for me.

When I was a kid I liked Return of the Jedi best, but growing up I realized how much greater ESB and ANH were.

My personal favorite is ESB.
Hmm i was just reading a few pages back in the thread there....
In a way its intresting to see how the characters developed, but i do agree that sometimes it does seem a small world. But i still think the PT is great, but u really can't beat the OT no matter how hard u try.

Originally posted by hunchy
When I was a kid I liked Return of the Jedi best, but growing up I realized how much greater ESB and ANH were.

yeah, same here. Return of the Jedi was the one I watched most often. I'd say I watch it least often these days. Which I guess tells us that Lucas's target audience was younger (whether he intened it or not).

Originally posted by Fieperskaivu
1. Return of the Jedi
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. A New Hope
4. Attack of the Clones
5. The Phantom Menace

Reverse chronological order for me.

1. Attack of the Clones
2. Return of the Jedi
3. The Phantom Menace
4. The Empire Strikes Back
5. A New Hope

mine are:

Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Attack of the Clones/The Phantom Menace < can't decide...

Yeah the first two, I can't decide either. I think they are both great in their won way. ROTJ defiantely next. And then again, I can't decide between AOTC and PTM. I believe ROTS COULD be better than ROTJ, but we'll see.

Wow, MacGeeks list stuns me. I have to strongly disagree with it.

hunchy. you are going to be in for one hell of a shock on may 19.

What do you think after seeing the 3 new tv spots?

For me there is still no way ROTS will knock ESB or ANH from their spots at the top of my list... they're simply in a league of their own.

That will change, my friend. That will change.

no... I think the chances of that happening are slimmer than a million to one.

don't get me wrong, I think ROTS will be great! But nothing can compare to ESB

It's a totally different generation. ANH, ESB and ROTJ revolutionized sci-fi. Sure the prequels are better visually speaking, the actors all suck compared to the originals. There are no great quotes from the prequels either. We'll see May 19th, but I doubt my opinion will change...

I'm glad for both of you. The less you think of the movie before hand, the more you'll enjoy it.

You two, are going to have the time of your lives in the theater, BUT....... at the same time, you'll have to move your "GOD" ESB, from the top of your list, to the one second from top.

am I not saying it right?

IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN!

MacGeek, don't forget to count me too....But you are too young I believe to understand that there is no touching ESB or ANH. We have said that we think ROTS is gonna be a awesome, but they are in a totally different boat. Classics vs entertaining prequels.

As for the new tv spots they have gotten me even more excited and pumped. I can't wait for Episode 3. I see a lot of great fx, (the clonetroopers look amazing, and in some shots, could yes very well be real in my opinion) and a few shots where I think the fx are so-so....such as Obi Wan being chased by General Grevious in that wheel thing, that looks very bluescreened....but I'll wait to see the final thing on a bigger screen before I make my criticisms.

Fieperskaivu you make a good point saying that the OT is a different generation than the PT. For instance to provide a better example of how I feel, as a film critic, rating the ANH and ESB I would give them ****/****. Return of the Jedi I would give ***1/2, and I believe that ROTS looks to be a ***1/2 movie, and even if I possibly gave it **** it still wouldn't come close to matching the originals. While I don't give five stars, if Episode 3 was a 4 star movie, the originals would be like five star movies in comparison. Get my point?

You did make one good point, less expectations the better. You sure you don't have too high of hopes?

Now stop saying that we will regret it afterwards. I'd be happy to put everything I've got on betting that my opinion will not change from now till after the movie. Because you don't understand our points of view, which means that you are really actually useless to debate since you won't listen to us that everyone has a different opinion about things...just like you like the prequels better. I respect that, even though myself I think it is insane. So just accept that we like the OT better and leave it at that.

1. ESB
2.ROTJ
3.ANH
4.TPM
5.AOTC

Originally posted by hunchy
I believe ROTS COULD be better than ROTJ

im hoping it will. Its the only movie from the OT ROTS has a chance of beating. But the first two are UNTOUCHABLE. I dare anyone to disagree

I disagree, ROTS will be the best of the lot,
then ESB, then ATOC,ANH,TPM, ROTJ
ROTJ in my book is the worst of all, I think I like ESB the 2nd most cause thats the one that has most memories for me.

Originally posted by Stunrun
im hoping it will. Its the only movie from the OT ROTS has a chance of beating. But the first two are UNTOUCHABLE. I dare anyone to disagree

Ditto.