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Flash and Superman are in a fight to the death.

Featureless environment; no sunlight for Superman, no Legos for Flash.
No weapons, outside influences, preptime, or battlefield removal.

No pre-crisis, or prime, only current, post-crisis Superman and Flash.

Complete bloodlust. All personality traits suppressed; loser will be ressurected.

Discuss.

Superman no shit

Flash no shit.

i can't beileve Flash is so over hyped here.

Remember, Flash has limitless speed, infinity mass punches, he can steal speed from anything or anyone, and he can vibrate through people, causing them to explode.

Are you a moron Cosmic Cube?

No, I'm simply reiterating what everyone on this forum has told me about the Flash. Those are his powers.

I think your being sarcastic. I read the thread, you are mocking certain people imo.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I think your being sarcastic. I read the thread, you are mocking certain people imo. I certainly am. However, as a member of this message board, I have the right to post any thread I wish to, so long as it is within the confines of the forum rules.

he can't penetrate forcefields with his vibration. he is a bit overhyped along with Dr. Doom. plus supes is also going all out.

You're forgetting the infinity mass punch, limitless speed, and his ability to steal anyone's speed.

I think if he had a surfboard he could wack him on the head with it.

not limitless only lightspeed. or he enters the speed force.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I think if he had a surfboard he could wack him on the head with it. But, he doesn't. Where would he get a surfboard? Featureless environment.

Beside's what's a whack on the head to Superman?

Originally posted by Superherovandal
not limitless only lightspeed. or he enters the speed force.

Oh sorry, I must have been misinformed.

Cosmic you crack me up. LMAO

Flash can go light speed , so superman is fast enough to hit him.

One hit from superman And K.O flash.

but i think you know that don't you cube.

Who me? I don't know anything about the Flash. I only know what I have read on this forum.

How will Superman hit him if he *gasp*... steals his speed?

u really are a funny, cynical person cosmic. I used to think that Flash had unlimited speed but then I saw the truth. thank u.

Not criticizing you, Superherovandal, and I don't want to seem like I'm attacking anyone. I just want to know the Flash's true abilities and nothing more. There are a hell of alot of myths floating around this forum.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Who me? I don't know anything about the Flash. I only know what I have read on this forum.

How will Superman hit him if he *gasp*... steals his speed?

HAHA , ya that's why he stole DD , Darksied's speed???

people here hype him to much.

mebee he that did to someone , but who to say it works on everyone.

and no one has provided evidence to anyone the shit.

here are thing people have to prove:

1) flash can make people explode?? he did it once and now he can beat anyone with that. why didn't he do it to DD , let me guess he is too fast lol.
2) flash can steal speed ?? why didn't he do such a thing with other enimies like darkseid , doomsday etc.
3) Flash will kill anyone before anyone can react??? this is true , but if he is fighting other fast people it doesn''t have that much of an effect.

why?? because he is not a killer , because he is nice

my ass

When does Flash make someone explode kg?

he can steal speed from everyone but how many superheroes do you know that are used to their fullest ability. but this is one of a few fights he cannot win.

Why can't he steal Superman's speed, vandal?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
When does Flash make someone explode kg?
he didn't really do it.

But K.Oed someone , but people think he did it.

hello because Supes will be in the air. double duh. and this flash can't fly.

he could if he could fly and touch him.

he can't just steal speed unless he touches them.

That's not what I've heard.

Can you give an issue in which Flash steals speed?

i have it on a website for DC speedsters. go on flash vs quicksilver cage match. its somewhere there.

Thanks Super.

legend has it

Flash now has the Sword of heaven )given by god)can slice anyone , at anytime.

and is now called Flash prime.

spread the word.

lol

yeah and he also made LT and TOAA his b**ch.

yes with his new powers he is unbeatable.

ohh hold on....wait iam getting news.

that he has just slice the Presence.

can some tell me flash's comic refrence to these claim i whould like to see it for my self.

Wally West is the fastest man alive. Splattered with lightning-charged chemicals as a pre-teen, he gained super-speed and became the sidekick to the second Flash, eventually succeeding him. Powered by the extradimensional Speed Force, he can not only move at near-lightspeed, but can transfer speed to and from others. He used to be able to vibrate through solid objects, but now doing so causes them to explode. Wally is the only speedster who can travel through time precisely without using external calibration (such as the Cosmic Treadmill).

For most of his solo career, his identity was known to the public. Recent actions by the Spectre have caused the world to forget.

Detailed History

http://www.hyperborea.org/flash/wally.html

I've searched that site. I don't see where it says Flash can steal speed.

How can this even be a contest. Superman is almost as fast as the flash. Not to mention way more strong and can fly. This isn't even close. Superman would win

Not if Flash steals his speed, then vibrates through him. BOOM! No more man of steel.

lol... I'd like to see Superman fight Flash Prime.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
lol... I'd like to see Superman fight Flash Prime.

dude you must be kidding me

Flash prime will smoke Superman

even Superman prime is nothing.

up

Yeah Flash Prime created a new universe by running and slicing the current DCU in two after he stole the Sword of Heaven from Superman prime.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I've searched that site. I don't see where it says Flash can steal speed. Its hard to read but in this pic Flash says that he could steal Supermans speed but at over 2000 miles per second the effects would be disasterous.

If anybody wants to see a better pic let me know.

Foot race Flash wins 10/10.

Fight to death Superman wins 8/10 or more.

The Flash is, or at least should be, one of the most powerful people in comics but he's totally outclassed here. Superman is more than fast enough to keep up with his movements and only needs to hit him once since Wally is just a man.

Wally can win but he doesn't take the majority. I give him 3/10 max.

Superman would NEVER lay a hand on Wally if he were really fighting and paying attention instead of being arrogant as he is sometimes portrayed.

Not saying that Flash would necessarily beat Superman, but Supes would never even touch Flash.

And Flash doesn't need to touch his opponent to steal his speed.

I realise that this may seem like a very ignorant question about Superman, but I must ask. Exactly how fast can Superman move and react if he does not care about possible damage that he might create?

I know Superman is incredibly fast, but I am curious if his speed can almost be comparable to Flash. I've heard he can be near light speed, which would be comparable to Flash. However, I've also heard that he is only a small fraction of light speed.

I have plenty of Superman comics displaying his super speed, but I do not own any comics that clear up that question for me.

This question is for anybody and I would prefer that you didn't use a web site or stat sheet, but a reference from a comic book.

Flash has the speed superman has the strength it's to a bit hard to say who would win and who would lose.

Supes, has too much going for him, IMO, that Flash can handle.

I think Supes' versatility will play a role.

"he can't penetrate forcefields with his vibration. he is a bit overhyped along with Dr. Doom. plus supes is also going all out."

Why does even exist this notion that Superman and Superman only can go " all out "?

Other characters cant? Since when.

"Why can't he steal Superman's speed, vandal"

He can. The same way Jay once stole Black Adams speed to attack Johnny Sorrow.

"not limitless only lightspeed. or he enters the speed force"

Wich in that case the speed difference between him and Superman gets bigger, no?

"One hit from superman And K.O flash."

One infinite mass punch and Superman gets Ko.

This "fight" isent one side as many think.

Originally posted by MatchesMalone
I realise that this may seem like a very ignorant question about Superman, but I must ask. Exactly how fast can Superman move and react if he does not care about possible damage that he might create?

I know Superman is incredibly fast, but I am curious if his speed can almost be comparable to Flash. I've heard he can be near light speed, which would be comparable to Flash. However, I've also heard that he is only a small fraction of light speed.

I have plenty of Superman comics displaying his super speed, but I do not own any comics that clear up that question for me.

This question is for anybody and I would prefer that you didn't use a web site or stat sheet, but a reference from a comic book.

in that scan it doesn't seem like he wants to be going that fast.... what was he doing it for?

Superman closes a rift in time and space.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2914/untitled128qt.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/4443/untitled138wy.jpg
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9006/untitled140kt.jpg
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/1406/untitled152oe.jpg
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7915/untitled166ov.jpg

what happened next?

Superman was caught off guard when he flew in the the rift in space/time. He later got control.

As you can see in the last pic he attained 99% of the speed of light and was still accelerating..............

In this pic if dont say how fast he was flying but he was slowing down time and bending space.

Also, in another comic, Superman needed to talk to Flash, so he looked around using his super-visions and spotted him, then performed all the mathematical equations in his head... trajectory, velocity, accelerations, etc.... and flew down to a landing and Flash skidded to a stop right in front of him.

What issue # is that?

I think I might have that one.

Ultimate Ion, you just showed me that Superman can go near light speed using a comic reference.

That's exactly what I asked for. Your the man.

Anyway, back on topic. I currently have no comment on who would win between these two.

Supes does this. But amps up his heat vision to vapourise every THING rather than every microbe.

Supes can win this. It'd take more than IMPs to beat Supes. And Supes has as many speed feats as Flash.

And Cube - you're a real sarcastic son of a dog, lol!

"Supes can win this. It'd take more than IMPs to beat Supes. And Supes has as many speed feats as Flash"

Your comparing Superman to an IMP?

"And Supes has as many speed feats as Flash"

But not - faster - speed feats. Aka, better.

Originally posted by olympian
Your comparing Superman to an IMP?

I'm not gonna bother replying....

And for the second part - no, he doesn't have any 'better' speed feats post crisis.

But in my opinion, he has a good portion of Flash's speed, plus 500,000 times his strength and a million times the durability.

There's no chance of Flash winning this without some PIS.

"I'm not gonna bother replying.... "

Fair enough, it was what it seemed to me you wer saying. Thats why i asked.

"And for the second part - no, he doesn't have any 'better' speed feats post crisis.

But in my opinion, he has a good portion of Flash's speed, plus 500,000 times his strength and a million times the durability."

He is close to Flash speed but hes not on a equal or superior footing. Flash strickes me as having more stamina the same way Superman its more durable. Both can use the speed to punch for a ko. This is not a walk in the park, althi i can see why the edge goes to Superman.

From what i hear, it seems that Superman cant keep up with Flash in the atmosphere when Flash goes to a cretain speed. If this hold true, which i think, its highly unfair considering Supes is moving in slow motion plus can easily have his speed taken from him.

Without making this Pre-Crisis Supes, I can't see a way that Superman can win if Flash steals his speed.

If he attacks before his speed is stolen though:

His 360 heat vision sweep might work. It depends on whether Flash can outrun laser beams in the earth's atmosphere. If he can't, he's toast.

Thunder claps might work - Flash is far faster than sound, but can he see it...?

Earthquakes might work at knocking him off balance, but if Flash has his thinking cap on, he could be ten miles away when Supes causes a quake.

Then again - all this thinking about how Supes might hurt Flash could be moot. How is Flash gonna hurt Supes? Infinite Mass Punch him until his own hand is broken...?

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
His 360 heat vision sweep might work. It depends on whether Flash can outrun laser beams in the earth's atmosphere. If he can't, he's toast.

Supes tried it in Flash #209. Flash said to himself.. "Im faster than heat vision."

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Thunder claps might work - Flash is far faster than sound, but can he see it...?

It wouldnt affect Flash much. Hes able to do thunderclaps as well. Thundersnaps, thunderstomps. Any movement he does, hes able to make a sonic boom.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Earthquakes might work at knocking him off balance, but if Flash has his thinking cap on, he could be ten miles away when Supes causes a quake.

True. It also depends on how hed recover if he is caught in the quake.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Then again - all this thinking about how Supes might hurt Flash could be moot. How is Flash gonna hurt Supes? Infinite Mass Punch him until his own hand is broken...?

Because they both move some sort of field around them, doesnt it counter each other which would enable damage to be done? If Wally were to break his hands, hed heal them asap. It shouldnt stop him none. If the IMP's dont work, im not really sure how Flash can hurt Supes? I dont really see a reason why the vibrational punch wouldnt work. I know Superman is suppose to have the protective aura around him, but that brings me to my statement above.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Supes tried it in Flash #209. Flash said to himself.. "Im faster than heat vision."



It wouldnt affect Flash much. Hes able to do thunderclaps as well. Thundersnaps, thunderstomps. Any movement he does, hes able to make a sonic boom.



True. It also depends on how hed recover if he is caught in the quake.



Because they both move some sort of field around them, doesnt it counter each other which would enable damage to be done? If Wally were to break his hands, hed heal them asap. It shouldnt stop him none. If the IMP's dont work, im not really sure how Flash can hurt Supes? I dont really see a reason why the vibrational punch wouldnt work. I know Superman is suppose to have the protective aura around him, but that brings me to my statement above.
IMP will work very well.
Wally's aura protects him only from LOW/MID level injuries and ari friction.Supes punches are outta his league of durability.
But with his speed, Wally can perform a hundred of IMP in front of Supes, and that will smack down Superman, REAL BAD, I can tell you.

Originally posted by K3VIL
IMP will work very well.
Wally's aura protects him only from LOW/MID level injuries and ari friction.Supes punches are outta his league of durability.
But with his speed, Wally can perform a hundred of IMP in front of Supes, and that will smack down Superman, REAL BAD, I can tell you.

Ok. So what does Supermans aura protect him from? I dont quite get how it works.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Ok. So what does Supermans aura protect him from? I dont quite get how it works.
From both physical and energy attacks, but follow me:
White Martians possess around 80-85%, let's say 70% for Zum of Superman's durability.
If one IMP sent a White Martian into orbit at ESCAPE VELOCITY, it means that a hundred of IMP, which Flash can perform, cause after tapping into the SF an exit from it he can just reappear in front of Supes and punch him a hundred times, that hundred times will send Superman to the Watchtower.

Originally posted by K3VIL
From both physical and energy attacks, but follow me:
White Martians possess around 80-85%, let's say 70% for Zum of Superman's durability.
If one IMP sent a White Martian into orbit at ESCAPE VELOCITY, it means that a hundred of IMP, which Flash can perform, cause after tapping into the SF an exit from it he can just reappear in front of Supes and punch him a hundred times, that hundred times will send Superman to the Watchtower.

Agreed.

Originally posted by K3VIL
From both physical and energy attacks, but follow me:
White Martians possess around 80-85%, let's say 70% for Zum of Superman's durability.
If one IMP sent a White Martian into orbit at ESCAPE VELOCITY, it means that a hundred of IMP, which Flash can perform, cause after tapping into the SF an exit from it he can just reappear in front of Supes and punch him a hundred times, that hundred times will send Superman to the Watchtower.
Superman Wins

Paradox.

Originally posted by kgkg
Superman Wins

Good to see you back Kg. Where ya been?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Supes tried it in Flash #209. Flash said to himself.. "Im faster than heat vision."



Flash is faster than heat vision so I dont know if Superman could use that for a way of victory.

Maybe if he caught him off-guard.

I just wonder how fast Superman actually is though.

In this pic the JLA says hes too fast to catch and Superman says "No, no hes not".

I think thats just Superman being cocky. He knows deep down if it came to it, he wouldnt catch Flash. Lucky for him, Flash was giving him the time of day to even talk.

Has Superman ever caugh Flash at full speeds?

Highly unlikely.

Flash wasnt going wide-open in the pic I posted but Flash didnt expect Superman to catch him.

Originally posted by olympian
Has Superman ever caugh Flash at full speeds?

Not that ive ever heard of. What would you consider full speeds?

Originally posted by kgkg
Superman Wins
You mean Flash don't you?

Right. To perform his IMP on the white martian he ran around the world right...?

Say he has to do that for each one... as he'd lose momentum once the punch made contact...

Now to hit Supes with one hundred IMPs he'd have to run around the world one hundred times.

Light takes one seventh of a second to circle the earth.

So to run around the earth one hundred times at full lightspeed, Flash would take 14 seconds.

Are you telling me that Superman - who reacts in milliseconds - is not in the entirety of that 14 seconds, gonna hit Flash at least ONCE?

Once is all it'd take....

And once he'd get...

is everyone forgetting that the Flash is the second fastest man alive?

After JP...?

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
After JP...?

after Zoom verison 2.0

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Right. To perform his IMP on the white martian he ran around the world right...?

Say he has to do that for each one... as he'd lose momentum once the punch made contact...

Now to hit Supes with one hundred IMPs he'd have to run around the world one hundred times.

Light takes one seventh of a second to circle the earth.

So to run around the earth one hundred times at full lightspeed, Flash would take 14 seconds.

Are you telling me that Superman - who reacts in milliseconds - is not in the entirety of that 14 seconds, gonna hit Flash at least ONCE?

Once is all it'd take....

And once he'd get...
Flash didn't run around the world.That happened in JLU, the animated series.
Flash just entered into the SpeedForce, and REAPPEARED, like exiting from a dimensional portal behind Zum, and punched him before he could even blink, he himself stated he could have punched him 1000 times before he can even react.
Flash doesn't lose momentum, SF energy surrounds him defying all the effects that kind of manouver would create, we all know what Flash would case if his mass was really infinite.Law of Physics are nullified from the SF energy.
Superman gets smacked down.

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Right. To perform his IMP on the white martian he ran around the world right...?

Say he has to do that for each one... as he'd lose momentum once the punch made contact...

Now to hit Supes with one hundred IMPs he'd have to run around the world one hundred times.

Light takes one seventh of a second to circle the earth.

So to run around the earth one hundred times at full lightspeed, Flash would take 14 seconds.

Are you telling me that Superman - who reacts in milliseconds - is not in the entirety of that 14 seconds, gonna hit Flash at least ONCE?

Once is all it'd take....

And once he'd get...

You musnt forget that Zum was running with him to all those locations. Zum is also faster than Superman and has about the same durability though slightly less.

I doubt Flash has to hit Superman with 100 IMP's.He only hit Zum with 1 and ko'd him. I say about 10 is all thats needed. Also with Flash stealing Supermans speed, Superman wouldnt even be able to react.

His "millisecond" reaction time, would be heavily reduced. Hed be able to hit Flash if hes lucky. I think hed be so disoriented from the hits, he wouldnt know where Wallys coming from.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Flash didn't run around the world.That happened in JLU, the animated series.
Flash just entered into the SpeedForce, and REAPPEARED, like exiting from a dimensional portal behind Zum, and punched him before he could even blink, he himself stated he could have punched him 1000 times before he can even react.
Flash doesn't lose momentum, SF energy surrounds him defying all the effects that kind of manouver would create, we all know what Flash would case if his mass was really infinite.Law of Physics are nullified from the SF energy.
Superman gets smacked down. Except that it's a known fact that Superman can see and react to Flash while he's going. Like I mentioned earlier, in one issue, he looked around and did all the mathematical caculations in his head in and stepped right in front of Wally while he was running all over the place. Wally skidded to a stop. Also, in Sacrifice Superman not only moved and reacted faster than Wally, but outsmarted him as well as far as combat tactics went. And rendered him useless to the battle. If he had to, Superman obliterates the a world sized chunk of the 'featureless environment" with heat vision. This IS bloodlust right? Dodge that. You guys should know Bloodlusted Superman has no known peak for speed, stength, etc.

Originally posted by Juntai
Except that it's a known fact that Superman can see and react to Flash while he's going. Like I mentioned earlier, in one issue, he looked around and did all the mathematical caculations in his head in and stepped right in front of Wally while he was running all over the place. Wally skidded to a stop. Also, in Sacrifice Superman not only moved and reacted faster than Wally, but outsmarted him as well as far as combat tactics went. And rendered him useless to the battle. If he had to, Superman obliterates the a world sized chunk of the 'featureless environment" with heat vision. This IS bloodlust right? Dodge that. You guys should know Bloodlusted Superman has no known peak for speed, stength, etc.
Flash can enter into the SF in FAR, FAR LESS than a second.
How can Supes punch him while he's into the SF Dimension?
Heat Vision my ass.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Flash can enter into the SF in FAR, FAR LESS than a second.
How can Supes punch him while he's into the SF Dimension?
Heat Vision my ass.
OH THAT EXPLAINS WHY SUPERMAN WAS DEFEATED IN SACRIFICE, WALLY MOVED TOO FAST FOR HIM> . . . . Wait, nm, it happened the OTHER WAY.




Also in another comic a mage put a spell on Wally to where he was constantly running as fast as he could, and was about to start doing what Barry had done...and Jay Garrick and Superman were chasing him, and were only a couple strides behind him. Jay ended up taking Superman's speed and and tackling Wally to the ground. Wally isn't much faster than Superman, deal with it. And Superman bloodlusted is a whole new level.

If this is bloodlust, Flash takes all the kinetic energy from Supes. While Superman is motionless, Flash just pounds him with IMP's. We're stil not even sure if Supermans "aura" would protect him from the vibrational punch. Flash at bloodlust is going at lightspeeds and possible slightly faster without getting drawn into the speedforce. He would circle to Earth more than ten times in less than a second pounding Superman.

Heat vision you say? Flash goes intangible. No need to dodge cause he just goes right through it.

Wally isnt much faster than Superman? Ohh but he is.

Fastest.

1. Wally
2. Barry
3. Jessie
4. Max Mercury/Superman
5. Jay
6. Bart

I doubt Superman is faster than Jessie, but ill even give him the benefit of the doubt and say he COULD be equal to her in speed. Supermans not even faster than Barry. Wally >>>Barry in terms of speed.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Wally isnt much faster than Superman? Ohh but he is.

Fastest.

1. Wally
2. Barry
3. Jessie
4. Max Mercury/Superman
5. Jay
6. Bart

I doubt Superman is faster than Jessie, but ill even give him the benefit of the doubt and say he COULD be equal to her in speed. Supermans not even faster than Barry. Wally >>>Barry in terms of speed. And one of the first times Wally entered the speed force... who did he see...? Max Mercury. "I didn't know you where this fast..." You moot your point. And Barry outside of a few and far between feets is the slowest on that list. And what happened to Jessie? I'm not sure she exists anymore.

And as a matter of fact, Jay is way way up on the list. He's entered the speed force and became one with it and came back as energy when he was battling his version of the reverse Flash. He's also time traveled a few times, without the treadmill. Same with Max, Max isn't from our timeline.

Originally posted by Juntai
And one of the first times Wally entered the speed force... who did he see...? Max Mercury. "I didn't know you where this fast..." You moot your point. And Barry outside of a few and far between feets is the slowest on that list. And what happened to Jessie? I'm not sure she exists anymore.

How do i moot my point? Max ercury was the first one ever to enter the speed force. Wally wasnt always as fsat as he is now. Whats your point? Barry the slowest on the list? Obviously you know nothing of the speedsters. Superman NEVER beat Barry. SO if Barry is slowerst on the list, what does that tell you about Superman? I dont think Jessie is dead, but i do know that she doesnt have her superspeed anymore. However when she did, Superman wasnt faster than her. If so, it was only slightly.

Originally posted by Juntai
And as a matter of fact, Jay is way way up on the list. He's entered the speed force and became one with it and came back as energy when he was battling his version of the reverse Flash. He's also time traveled a few times, without the treadmill. Same with Max, Max isn't from our timeline.

When was this? Jay entering the speedforce and coming back as pure energy?

Originally posted by jrodslam
How do i moot my point? Max ercury was the first one ever to enter the speed force. Wally wasnt always as fsat as he is now. Whats your point? Barry the slowest on the list? Obviously you know nothing of the speedsters. Superman NEVER beat Barry. SO if Barry is slowerst on the list, what does that tell you about Superman? I dont think Jessie is dead, but i do know that she doesnt have her superspeed anymore. However when she did, Superman wasnt faster than her. If so, it was only slightly. And what about all the comics I've mentioned on Barry NOT being way faster than Superman? You're just saying "He's faster because he can use the speedforce", when comics have proven time and time again that this isn't the truth. Any time he's raced any of them he's always been neck and neck with them the whole time, and several times outside of that in actual situations Superman has proven to be the superior over and over again.

Originally posted by jrodslam
When was this? Jay entering the speedforce and coming back as pure energy? Early New JSA I beleive it was, he had gotten rid of his reverse Flash by having him go into the speedforce and dissapearing like Barry, but he came back, and Jay tapped into it as well and did the very same thing, and they were both blurrs of energy. The reverse flash was after him and his wife. He looked identical to KC Flash.

Originally posted by Juntai
And he entered the speedforce... and came back and was a being of energy... which is what I said. Read the comic.

So tell me, what happened after he came back as pure energy? Presonally i dont believe you. It would be nice if you were to prove it.

Ive never heard of Jay entering the speed force without the use of the cosmic treadmil. Hes barely faster than Bart.

Don't believe what exactly?


You just showed me a comic summary of Jay entering the speedforce without the treadmill. ..?



And what does any of this have to do with what I said earlier: what about all the comics I've mentioned on Barry NOT being way faster than Superman? You're just saying "He's faster because he can use the speedforce", when comics have proven time and time again that this isn't the truth. Any time he's raced any of them he's always been neck and neck with them the whole time, and several times outside of that in actual situations Superman has proven to be the superior over and over again.


You never did cover that. Why dodge it and make attempts at moot points over and over?

And what happens if Superman makes multiples of himself with Torqasm Vo, or attacks astrally? Or like I said-- takes out a planet sized chunk of the 'featureless enviroment'. Face it, Flash winning completely relies on Superman either not reacting or trying to race him. Which are both things that are NOT going to happen. Superman has a billion ways to beat Flash. Flash has one of POSSIBLY beating him. Sure, Flash COULD win, a couple out of a hunded maybe. But with the luck Flash's have it's not likely.

Originally posted by Juntai
Don't believe what exactly?

Dont believe what you said about Jay entering the speed force and coming back as pure energy. Proof woujld be nice.

Originally posted by Juntai
You just showed me a comic summary of Jay entering the speedforce without the treadmill. ..?

Where in that summary do you see it state that Jay entered the speedforce at all? You were the one who said he did it to defeat The Rival, but youhave not proven that. Ive never heard of Jay entering the speed force on his own without the use of the cosmic tradmil. You say otherwise. Please prove that.

Originally posted by Juntai
And what does any of this have to do with what I said earlier: what about all the comics I've mentioned on Barry NOT being way faster than Superman? You're just saying "He's faster because he can use the speedforce", when comics have proven time and time again that this isn't the truth. Any time he's raced any of them he's always been neck and neck with them the whole time, and several times outside of that in actual situations Superman has proven to be the superior over and over again.

First off, ive never said that Barry is way faster than Superman. I just said hes faster. I did imply that Wally is way faster than Barry, thus making him way faster than Superman. The only reason they are so close in the races are to make them interesting. Welcome to comics, as someone once told me.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Dont believe what you said about Jay entering the speed force and coming back as pure energy. Proof woujld be nice.



Where in that summary do you see it state that Jay entered the speedforce at all? You were the one who said he did it to defeat The Rival, but youhave not proven that. Ive never heard of Jay entering the speed force on his own without the use of the cosmic tradmil. You say otherwise. Please prove that.



First off, ive never said that Barry is way faster than Superman. I just said hes faster. I did imply that Wally is way faster than Barry, thus making him way faster than Superman. The only reason they are so close in the races are to make them interesting. Welcome to comics, as someone once told me. Buy the comic, or just go to the comic store and look at it. I don't have a scanner, so either you can live in doubt or go prove me right... One way or another, I'm not kidding. My knowledge of DC comics is hard pressed to rival and I think a lot of people on the forum already know that.

If Flash is supposedly can take down a skyfather with ease, he should mop the floor with Superman.

Flash wins.

Originally posted by Juntai
And what happens if Superman makes multiples of himself with Torqasm Vo, or attacks astrally? Or like I said-- takes out a planet sized chunk of the 'featureless enviroment'. Face it, Flash winning completely relies on Superman either not reacting or trying to race him. Which are both things that are NOT going to happen. Superman has a billion ways to beat Flash. Flash has one of POSSIBLY beating him. Sure, Flash COULD win, a couple out of a hunded maybe. But with the luck Flash's have it's not likely.

And what if Wally goes and gets kryptonite? Whats a planet sized chunk out of the planet going to do? Flash would already be on the other side of the globe lol. You would consider Superman destroying the planet just to get a victory? Seems like youre getting despirate. Superman would have no choice but not to react, due to all he kinetic energy being stolen. Superman has a billion ways to beat Flash? Debate over.

Flash runs the space-time continuum till the end of time. Superman is dead and he isnt. There, Flash wins.

Originally posted by jrodslam
And what if Wally goes and gets kryptonite? Whats a planet sized chunk out of the planet going to do? Flash would already be on the other side of the globe lol. You would consider Superman destroying the planet just to get a victory? Seems like youre getting despirate. Superman would have no choice but not to react, due to all he kinetic energy being stolen. Superman has a billion ways to beat Flash? Debate over.

Flash runs the space-time continuum till the end of time. Superman is dead and he isnt. There, Flash wins.

Superman is immortal, he will live forever.

Originally posted by Sentry
Superman is immortal, he will live forever.


Really?

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8292/flash141p159li7hi.th.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/563/flash141p164nl3ey.th.jpg

And how about in Sacrifice when Superman reacted faster than Wally could? Or the time he did the caculations and stopped him? Or any number of other times Superman has outclassed Flash?

It's not just the races, Superman except when he means to not be is always right alongside Flash when he's running.

Superman flies in and out of blackholes to warp through space, proving he's faster than light speed inside of a vaccuum, against infinite pull of gravity and even inside of a quantum singularity. You may know your Flash's in theory, but you don't know your Superman.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Really?

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8292/flash141p159li7hi.th.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/563/flash141p164nl3ey.th.jpg

According to a bunch of other people, Superman is immortal.

Jrod, you know I'm talking sarcastic right?

Also? How will he run and get Kryptonite in or run 'to the end of time' in a featureless enviroment? Don't be silly. lol.
If we're going to play that, Superman dons the Kryptonian Battle Armor, and it's all over.

Originally posted by Sentry
According to a bunch of other people, Superman is immortal.

Jrod, you know I'm talking sarcastic right? Technically, Superman is just a couple of feet away from the way end of time, crumpled at Hal Jordan's feet. So he is alive at the end of time.

Hes still not surviving the end of time.

Flash wins!

Originally posted by Juntai
Technically, Superman is just a couple of feet away from the way end of time, crumpled at Hal Jordan's feet. So he is alive at the end of time.

What? Every living being is gone. Big Bang. Hate to say it but Hals gone too.

Be back later.

Originally posted by jrodslam
What? Every living being is gone. Big Bang. Hate to say it but Hals gone too.

Be back later. Didn't you read zero hour? They were standing at the edge of time?


Also in Zero hour. Flash didn't do anything like that comic, and if he could, I'm sure he would have. Instead, he died. In fact, no Flash survived it.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Flash and Superman are in a fight to the death.

Featureless environment; no sunlight for Superman, no Legos for Flash.
No weapons, outside influences, preptime, or battlefield removal.

No pre-crisis, or prime, only current, post-crisis Superman and Flash.

Complete bloodlust. All personality traits suppressed; loser will be ressurected.

Discuss.

I've noticed a couple of people mention how powerful Superman will be with "Complete bloodlust. All personality traits suppressed."

Has anybody thought what Wally might be capable of? He has never, as far as I know (and I am talking under correction here) let his wild side take over. We all know Superman is a nice guy but Wally is so far beyond nice it makes me wanna puke, sometimes (look at my sig, I like the Dark Side).

So what would a god of speed, pushed over the edge, with unlimited speed and everything that goes with it, be capable of? If he doesn't care what happens to him, no holds barred, no holding back, with just one purpose in mind - Superman's blood.

Have any of you any idea of what he might be capable of?

Why do you think the writers keep on holding Wally back, by making him a super nice guy, by making us believe he can never use the Speed Force to its full potential?

Because he would rule this universe and every other universe, as well

Originally posted by Dreampanther
I've noticed a couple of people mention how powerful Superman will be with "Complete bloodlust. All personality traits suppressed."

Has anybody thought what Wally might be capable of? He has never, as far as I know (and I am talking under correction here) let his wild side take over. We all know Superman is a nice guy but Wally is so far beyond nice it makes me wanna puke, sometimes (look at my sig, I like the Dark Side).

So what would a god of speed, pushed over the edge, with unlimited speed and everything that goes with it, be capable of? If he doesn't care what happens to him, no holds barred, no holding back, with just one purpose in mind - Superman's blood.

Have any of you any idea of what he might be capable of?

Why do you think the writers keep on holding Wally back, by making him a super nice guy, by making us believe he can never use the Speed Force to its full potential?

Because he would rule this universe and every other universe, as well Rival was already the same thing and he got beat already as well? And Superman still outmaneuvers Flash nearly everytime he wants to?

How does Superman outmaneuver Flash?

Is he faster than the Flash? Remember, they are not thinking rationally, so there are no tactics - "pure bloodlust" remember?

So, basically, what we are trying to establish is - if these two go head to head, who will survive?

Will Flash be able to vibrate through Superman and make him explode? Will Flash be able to steal Superman's speed, therefore making him a target that is in effect immobile, compared to the speed he is moving? How long will Superman's endurance last - forever?

So what it comes down to is immovable object meets irresistible force.

Result? One big explosion.

Originally posted by Juntai
Buy the comic, or just go to the comic store and look at it. I don't have a scanner, so either you can live in doubt or go prove me right... One way or another, I'm not kidding. My knowledge of DC comics is hard pressed to rival and I think a lot of people on the forum already know that.

Can you give a issue number then?

Originally posted by dvampire
Can you give a issue number then? JSA 16.

Originally posted by Juntai
JSA 16.

Thanks!

It seems to depend mostly on who's writing it, as the characters' respective powers fluxuate wildly. However, imho, Flash's most wildly extreme feats >>> non-PC Superman's, so I guess Flash wins with 1,000 IMPs or whatever.

At least until a writer arbitrarily decides that Superman is actually faster again, and then the cycle repeats itself.

I posted a pic a few pages back showing Flash saying he is faster than heat vision. Which he is by the way but when he was outrunning the heat vision Superman was right behind him.

I know Flash is faster than Superman but I dont think the difference is gonna help Flash very much. But then again he can always steal Supermans speed. But on the other hand Superman has his durability, strength, and various vision and hearing powers also that he could use if Flash takes away his speed.

In AOS #642 Superman took out Martian Manhunter, John Stewart, Hawkman, Black Canary, and Flash.

He even made the comment something like "Wally is fast enough to see it coming but not fast enough to do anythig about it."

Flash can win but he must utilize his slight speed advantage wisely.

What issue was it that Flash IMP'd Zum?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I posted a pic a few pages back showing Flash saying he is faster than heat vision. Which he is by the way but when he was outrunning the heat vision Superman was right behind him.

I know Flash is faster than Superman but I dont think the difference is gonna help Flash very much. But then again he can always steal Supermans speed. But on the other hand Superman has his durability, strength, and various vision and hearing powers also that he could use if Flash takes away his speed.

In AOS #642 Superman took out Martian Manhunter, John Stewart, Hawkman, Black Canary, and Flash.

He even made the comment something like "Wally is fast enough to see it coming but not fast enough to do anythig about it."

Flash can win but he must utilize his slight speed advantage wisely.

Not if Flash takes away all his speed. Then his other attacks are literally worthless. He might as well be a statue. Actually, he would be if Flash took away all his strength. I stand corrected to myself.

Yeah, I've decided it's a draw.

"What issue was it that Flash IMP'd Zum?"

JLA issue #3 IIRC. First arc by Morrison.

Why is this so difficult? Superman without a doubt. They both have speed. And no don't say flash is faster they both are the same. In the cartoon hen they raced they were both even. Plus Superman has heat vision. So what if Flash has million punching thingie? Superman deflects bullets man. BULLETS!
praywhip
horse Haha the horse is pooping.

Did you even read any of the arguments?

Because from your statements it seems that you are just a fan of Superman, and know nothing whatsoever about the Flash.

Originally posted by Goldenskull777
Why is this so difficult? Superman without a doubt. They both have speed. And no don't say flash is faster they both are the same. In the cartoon hen they raced they were both even. Plus Superman has heat vision. So what if Flash has million punching thingie? Superman deflects bullets man. BULLETS!
praywhip
horse Haha the horse is pooping.

It actually hurt to read your post.

You clearly know nothing about either of them. Or not enough at least.

Flash is far than Superman at their fullest.

Flash's Speed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Superman's speed.

Your problem is that you're basing off of the cartoon.

And Flash can and has easily outrun Superman's heat vision.

Superman has to many advantages to lose this, and supermans speed is getting pretty high up there i mean he flew to the sun in seconds and it even takes like 8 min for light to reach the earth from the sun so thats pretty freakin fast, second i mean he can fly that is a HUGE advantage when your fighting someone who cant. I mean im sure i dont have to go over all of Supermans abilities for yall to realize that as tough as the flash is Superman has this one.

I agree with Dreampanther on this one.

I call it a draw.

Superman may or may not be fast enough to fight Flash.

But I don't think that Flash could hit Supes hard enough to defeat him - IMP or not, Supes is tougher than Zum.

The only way Supes could win is by leaving the battle field and blitzing the surface of the planet with wide-angled heat vision.

But he wouldn't - and in the rules, prob can't - do that.

So I call it a draw - Flash being able to outmaneuvor Supes but being unable to put him down without exhausting himself in the process.

Flash is beginning to sound like Flash Prime

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
I agree with Dreampanther on this one.

I call it a draw.

Superman may or may not be fast enough to fight Flash.

But I don't think that Flash could hit Supes hard enough to defeat him - IMP or not, Supes is tougher than Zum.

The only way Supes could win is by leaving the battle field and blitzing the surface of the planet with wide-angled heat vision.

But he wouldn't - and in the rules, prob can't - do that.

So I call it a draw - Flash being able to outmaneuvor Supes but being unable to put him down without exhausting himself in the process.
Flash exhausting himself?
Wally doesn't tire out, he's substained from SF energy.
100 IMP will K.O. Supes.
You must deal with it, Supes will lose.
Also potentially Wally could just fly, cause he has total control on his molecules, it's just a matter of willpower.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Flash exhausting himself?
Wally doesn't tire out, he's substained from SF energy.
100 IMP will K.O. Supes.
You must deal with it, Supes will lose.
Also potentially Wally could just fly, cause he has total control on his molecules, it's just a matter of willpower.

The only flash that could fly was kingdom come flash cause he truly did have coplete control over his molecules and kc flash was way way way tougher then flash could dream of being, so pretty much flash isnt going to touch superman if superman is flying second death stroke was able to stab flash so im pretty sure superman could do it also, and further more superman is able to go alot faster then light speed now in the comics and i believe flash cant considering he could get stuck in the speed force if he does

Originally posted by superman302
The only flash that could fly was kingdom come flash cause he truly did have coplete control over his molecules and kc flash was way way way tougher then flash could dream of being, so pretty much flash isnt going to touch superman if superman is flying second death stroke was able to stab flash so im pretty sure superman could do it also, and further more superman is able to go alot faster then light speed now in the comics and i believe flash cant considering he could get stuck in the speed force if he does

...Oh, man. Did you just say Superman is faster than Flash?

Oh Lord...here it comes.

Flash can fly....you do realize that wally chooses not to, he likes running....it seems cooler.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Flash exhausting himself?
Wally doesn't tire out, he's substained from SF energy.
100 IMP will K.O. Supes.
You must deal with it, Supes will lose.
Also potentially Wally could just fly, cause he has total control on his molecules, it's just a matter of willpower.
ya he controled his molecules back in the days also, still didn't change much , when he was in the air he couldn't do jack.

Superman is fast enough to land one punch , and that's all he whould need.

I don't remember Flash ever beating Superman ? do you

but there was this time where Superman had the Jla on their Knees

what is an ifinite mass punch and what is speedforce sorry guys im kinda new to this

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Oh, man. Did you just say Superman is faster than Flash?

Oh Lord...here it comes.

Well if someone can get to the sun in seconds and it takes light 8 min to get there wouldnt that mean that superman is faster then the speed of light

Originally posted by superman302
The only flash that could fly was kingdom come flash cause he truly did have coplete control over his molecules and kc flash was way way way tougher then flash could dream of being, so pretty much flash isnt going to touch superman if superman is flying second death stroke was able to stab flash so im pretty sure superman could do it also, and further more superman is able to go alot faster then light speed now in the comics and i believe flash cant considering he could get stuck in the speed force if he does
Flash was stabbed from Deathstroke when he was in his early days at sonic speeds max potential.

Originally posted by superman302
Well if someone can get to the sun in seconds and it takes light 8 min to get there wouldnt that mean that superman is faster then the speed of light
Which Flash can exceed too.

Originally posted by K3VIL
Flash was stabbed from Deathstroke when he was in his early days at sonic speeds max potential. Actually, it was last year in Identity Crisis, but don't sell anyone short because Deathstroke beat them up, he beats up a lot of high profile guys.

Do we really need to post the pic of Flash saving that entire island's population from a nuclear explosion in less than half a second? Cuz I think that might be all the proof we need.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Do we really need to post the pic of Flash saving that entire island's population from a nuclear explosion in less than half a second? Cuz I think that might be all the proof we need. No, I've read the issue. Have you seen exactly how many times Deathstroke has dropped Wally hard? Lets put it this way--- every time. In Deathstrokes comic, in JLA, in Titans, it doesn't matter, he drops him hard, and usually first. Sure, Flash should be able to do all kinds of shit for this not to happen... but 100% is 100%.

Originally posted by olympian
"What issue was it that Flash IMP'd Zum?"

JLA issue #3 IIRC. First arc by Morrison. That was actually pretty cool when he did that.

Flash punched Zum so hard he flew out of orbit at escape velocity which is 7 miles per second.

Originally posted by broly112
what is an ifinite mass punch and what is speedforce sorry guys im kinda new to this

also how do you get a pic sig