Swept Away.

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Darth Subjekt
Ok, now im sure the powers that be will deem this "pointless" but i have to ask anyway.

In ANH Tarkin metioned that "The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."

But what i want to know is, who or what was left? If the Emperor became "Emperor" in Ep3, what would he have left to BE dissolved by the time ANH rolls around? I think he leaves the senate be for a short time, but wouldnt that go against his Empire? I mean just the concept alone. But was Tarkin referring to the senate?

Thoughts, comments, concerns........

SithSpy
he leaves the senate as a governing body but he is the supreme voice. I.e. he has veto power and last word on everything, he does this b/c if he just took total dominant control there would be major revolt, so he lets the senate think they still have some power in the galaxy untill he can assure their complacence by way of the Death Star

Darth Subjekt
Oh ok, that kinda makes sense then. So when he said they were all dissolved, he was in fact referring to the senate, meaning all the different species that were in the floating pods? I know that they were the senate, but im asking thats who he was talking about being killed.

SithSpy
he wasnt talking about anyone being killed per say, it was more about dissolving any thought of power they may of had as a governing body, It's kinda like if the Queen of England told the Prime Minister that everything he did had to go through her first and then slowly she took his power away untill he had none

SithSpy
Palpatines main goal was to maintain the facade of democracy untill he had the power to effectivley scare the systems into following exactly what he said

diver of muffs
Does it really matter?

Darth Subjekt
Well kinda. I always wondered about it.

So did he pretty much hand pick the 'regional govenors'? Or just threaten the ones that were there like, If you try to revolt or overthrow me ill destoy your planet like Alderaan. But thanks Sith, that clears alot up for me.

SithSpy
as far as i know the regional govenors (of which Tarkin was one) were hand selected by palps after the clone wars, and the whole try and revolt or i'll destroy your planet was the intent of building the death star, and why they were able to dissolve the senate with little to no resistence.

and diver of muffs, if you dont have something constructive to say why dont you save 2 mins of your life and not post, just b/c something doesent matter to you doesent mean others arent interested

Darth Subjekt
Thank you. So is Grand Moff (spelling?) a rank in the Empire in addition to him being a govenor, or is it a promotion from that? Or do they ever really say?

Diver--youre lucky im in a good mood today.

SithSpy
Grand Moff is like a 4star general as far as I can tell, so it would be a promotion, but im sure he went through all the ranks to get there, at the time of ROTS he is a sector govenor Tarkin supposedly had alot to do with the succesfull construction of the death star making him Palps' right hand man,

diver of muffs
EDITED

SithSpy
Reported, and have a Great Weekend wink

Darth Subjekt
So i guess thats why theres a little tension between Vader and Tarkin in Ep4, kinda both wanting to be 2nd in command. I always wondered why he said, "as you wish" to him. But i know that topic has been dicussed to death.

look muff boy, im trying REALLY hard to be to be nice and youre starting to piss me off. If i choose to ruin your day, you'll question why........ya know what.....nevermind. But this is your LAST chance/warning.....ask others, i dont usually waiver this long and remain this calm. As Dooku would say....back down.

SithSpy
Yeah i think as a friend vaders closer to the emperor but professionally Tarking may be a bit higher, hence leias line, "I shouldve suspected you would be the one holding Vader's leash"

and on a side note, its best just to ignore folks like diver foryou know he wont be around long, at least not w/o it saying RESTRICTED above his sig

diver of muffs
EDITED

SithSpy
Yeah and your sig is awesome, your username---very original, I'll bet you do well with the ladies, last i checked the your Mom jokes like that in your location arent really cool or funny unless your in about 2nd grade, and I'm pretty much wasting my breath here b/c what you just posted will almost def. get you a ban, so again, Have a Great Weekend!


BTW champ, who said "as dooku would say", are those lil voices in your head talking again?? you did take your medicine this morning, right?

Darth Subjekt
ill give yo uone thing you must have balls. you really like to play with fire huh? Look noob, you need to get out of your parents house, get a job and a life, and start dating girls. Whats your beef with JP and lil b? OH i know, they actually have standards for men and you just dont measure up so you got to dump on them. So what do your grandparents think about their son and daughter getting married and having you?

((The_Anomaly))
that whole thing about tarkin being higher then vader makes no sense at all to me..

vader is palps friggin apprentice, a sith lord. I dont think that anyone, no matter how much they did could possibly be higher up in rank and power then the person who palpatine had trained....

this always bothered me about ANH....

but its just another "lucas making up as he went along" deal....stupid lucas...lol

SithSpy
LMFAO, subjeckt that thing about the grandparents is classic, I gotta remember that.

Yeah i'll agree a little bit with that anomaly, but I think Vader is higher on a personal level but on a political hierarchy he may be just under

SithSpy
It is as I have foreseen, if youll kindly look above divers avatar you will see what i mean

Darth Subjekt
Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
that whole thing about tarkin being higher then vader makes no sense at all to me..

vader is palps friggin apprentice, a sith lord. I dont think that anyone, no matter how much they did could possibly be higher up in rank and power then the person who palpatine had trained....

this always bothered me about ANH....

but its just another "lucas making up as he went along" deal....stupid lucas...lol

thats what i always thought too. How could Tarkin physically boss Vader around? If Vader disobeyed, what could he do about it? Hes a sith.

Sith, lol that was a variation of something JP said a little while ago.

SithSpy
He's a sith yes, but if you remember He MUST obey his master, so Palps probally just told him, "Darthy, when your at work youve gotta listen to tarkin....but your still my special lil guy dont forget that" eek! laughing

Darth Subjekt
LMAO.....oh damn....."Darthy"

Ushgarak
Yup, it is that simple. Tarkin is higher in the pecking order, which is how Sidious wants it.

Darth Subjekt
So its not until the destruction of the Death Star that Vader becomes "the man" so to speak? I was wondering, why would he want a mere mortal with no force powers ahead of his more powerful apprentice?

speiderman
Maybe because vader had no idea how to run government from day to day. Vader is a pitbull or top dog but Tarkin ran the day to day governmental policies of the Empire.

Ogami Itto
I don't think Tarkin is vaders boss! just the guy whos in charge of the DS! so he's all like "none of that on my watch" to Vader more like there equals! Only on the DS tho - anywhere else Darth would tell him to shove it!! rolling on floor laughing rolling on floor laughing

Darth Subjekt
see i always thought of it like, Vader was a Sith apprentice, but he never held ANY rank as far as the Empire goes UNTIL the first DS blew up. But i still couldnt imagine why his bad ass would take orders from a old California Raisin.

Red Superfly
Vader was meant to be nothing more than a thug, the muscle, at the time of ANH's creation. When ANH went to print, Darth Vader really was just an evil Jedi who killed Luke's dad.

It was only when the sequel came around did Lucas decide to add meat to the Vader character, making him second in command, more than the action taker - Vader became the political manipulator aswell.

It shows just how Vader wasn't really Lucas's creation, he more or less evolved into the supreme villain he is today, through mere chance and circumstance. The Darth Vader we all know and love is the best accident Lucas has ever made.

Lucas didn't know Star Wars was going to be a hit, he never planned Vader to be a mechanical man, he never planned on him being Luke's father, he never planned on him being in a "space suit" through the whole movie, he never planned on him being so well recieved. Vader becoming top dog was another thing Lucas didn't really plan either, it was just down to the fact Tarkin died and Vader didn't. Had Lucas had known that the sequels were going to be made, he wouldn't have had the DS in Ep VI, and things would have been very different. Tarkin holding Vader's leash in Ep IV is just because at the time, Vader didn't have too much importance - obviously things changed.

Darth Subjekt
damn good explanation. But i always thought he had star wars mapped out...at least ANH thru ROTJ. But how hard is it to make that lie up, ya know? but cool, thanks...

SithSpy
Well subjekt, my friend, whether or not Lucas knew what he was doing the whole time is one of the biggest mysteries in the star wars series, he swears he always knew but then you have things like the luke/leia kiss in ESB that makes you wonder

Darth Subjekt
Yeah i don't think it was all written before hand either. too many contradictions. Why R2-D2 doesn't remember Yoda on Degobah and well, tons of other stuff....oh well GL will say what he needs to in order to sound.....competent

SithSpy
another sign that genious lies dangerously on the side of insanity

Red Superfly
Guys watch the DVD commentaries. Lucas says that Vader was originally written as a thug who killed Jedi and was kinda 2D.

Also, check out one of the original Star Wars scripts. Darth Vader is nothing but a man, kinda like Admiral Piett.

Darth Maul is also what Darth Vader was originally going to be - an evil Jedi killing machine, who happened to have killed Luke's father.

In the gap between ANH's success and during ESB's creation, Lucas came up with the whole father angle for Vader. Vader's character is also changed - becoming more cool and collected, and being thrust into the limelight as a political player, rather than being the muscle for a Moff.

Lucas really did make things up as he went along. Some things he always had planned - The whole Luke and Leia being twins deal was part of the original script of Star Wars about the Skywalker twins, a boy and a girl.

Lucas didn't write the saga word for word. He had a general idea, and because of certain circumstances, he had to cut and edit his original script, leave bits out etc. Then there were things like Darth Vader, who's character evolved by itself, rather than Lucas knowing where it would go from day one.

It's always quite amusing that Darth Vader is a huge accident (the reason he became a "mechanical man" was because the limitations of ANH meant that he would be boarding a space ship, rather than an exotic planet first, and so needed a space suit, Ben Burtt gave him the breathing sound - and only by ESB did Lucas come up with the idea he NEEDED the suit at all times because he was badly hurt). I mean, it was also obvious that the name "Darth" also changed in its meaning. In ANH - Darth Vader is his NAME, because at the time of writing, his name WAS Darth Vader. Darth as in "John" and Vader as in "Smith". Then at some point "Darth" became a TITLE like "Mr." It's full of changes.

SithSpy
You know what red that thing about Darth vader being a name is something exactly like i was gonna say, It is the only reason that Obi would call him darth during their duel in ANH he says "only a master of evil darth", that wouldnt make any sense unless it was considered his name at the time, he'd of called him vader otherwise, But yeah what your saying makes perfect sense

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