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I'm just wondering, if anyone preferably a christian could give me their view on is christianity true because i'd like to believe it but struggle with it. I'd like to see without any insults or mockery why ppl believe what they believe.

What are you struggling with??? What part?

Religion isn't the answer...

It's just more questions...

totally atheist

If its true or not, how my physics lectures daily say most of it is wrong. How evolution happened if the answer is creation, how dinosaurs fit in. thats the main ones, any answers?

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
If its true or not, how my physics lectures daily say most of it is wrong. How evolution happened if the answer is creation, how dinosaurs fit in. thats the main ones, any answers?

Easy -- when the Bible was written and Christianity was created they had no knowledge that dinosaurs existed or of evolution or anything we now know and are learning about with modern science.

I'm 100% atheist.

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
If its true or not, how my physics lectures daily say most of it is wrong. How evolution happened if the answer is creation, how dinosaurs fit in. thats the main ones, any answers?

Do not believe what you are told just because someone has scared you into believing.

Doubt is a sign of healthy mind.

Originally posted by Lana
Easy -- when the Bible was written and Christianity was created they had no knowledge that dinosaurs existed or of evolution or anything we now know and are learning about with modern science.

I'm 100% atheist.

The creation of the world and Old Testament is Jewish faith - Christians ''borrowed'' it.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
The creation of the world and Old Testament is Jewish faith - Christians ''borrowed'' it.

I know that, I just didn't feel like writing out or explaining it

My point still stands, though.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Do not believe what you are told just because someone has scared you into believing.

Doubt is a sign of healthy mind.


VERY TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But in the bible it mentions Behemoths (wrong spelling i know) which is a giant monster, so maybe?? But thats what i mean, how does christianity have such a following when you can easily have a argument against it. Whats its argument?
Cause if you think back to olden times, it could have been the perfect way to keep people under control, but surely it wld've died out if it had no truth?
Also a thing against the bible is that they are now going against what it says in regard to homosexual ministers/priests, they're now saying it doesn't really mean that, but what does it mean then?

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
But in the bible it mentions Behemoths (wrong spelling i know) which is a giant monster, so maybe?? But thats what i mean, how does christianity have such a following when you can easily have a argument against it. Whats its argument?
Cause if you think back to olden times, it could have been the perfect way to keep people under control, but surely it wld've died out if it had no truth?
Also a thing against the bible is that they are now going against what it says in regard to homosexual ministers/priests, they're now saying it doesn't really mean that, but what does it mean then?

This is my view on this -

Just because a lot of people follow something does not make it right. Take the example of Islam. Just the same goes for Christianity and Judaism.
Do not let the numbers of followers fool you.

Why? Because just last century, people were lead astray by a Dictator - Hitler. Many people followed him, but that does not mean what he preached was right.

Majority has the might, but the minority is always right

Very good point, i take it your an athesist?

One thing about hitler tho, he was an honest politician , did everything he promised, which is quite scary that millions still followed his hate mongering war call.

Yes, you're right about Hitler. He was a good politician, he delivered what he promised, but at what price.

Im not an atheist, im a Buddhist but I do not discard the idea that there can be an alternative.

I am not knowledgable on God to claim that there is no such thing as God, so I will not make such a claim. You can believe in Creator and still be scientist. You can be religious and still progress - take humanism, morals, love and progression as your 'holy book' and keep your faith in a creator - and boom, you have a religion worthy following.

If you doubt, then search till you are satisfied.

hitler was a good manipulater, it easy to bee a good politicians when you have all the biggest thugs to enforce the politics, you know Germany was at rock bottom so it was only one way they could go.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

If you doubt, then search till you are satisfied.



I was raised in a Catholic family, was fairly religious myself...but I always had doubts in what I was taught in church and CCD and the bible and questioned everything. I didn't become atheist overnight, it was something that progressed over about 3 years. Some people who have doubts wind up believing in their faith more. Everyone is different, but what Lil says is the best -- search until you've found the answers that satisfy you.

If you want answers to your question, why would you want a Christian to answer? If your question is "Is Christianity the answer" and then you want a christian to answer, your already know the what answer you're goign to get. Conversly, if you want a non-religious person to answer, you know the answer you'll get then.

and your satisfied with believeing in nothing i'm sorry but thats just not logical

I am perfectly satisfied with the idea that there is no god. I don't have to believe in some sort of higher power.

And to flip the question back: how is believing in something that no one knows for sure exists logical?

Originally posted by Lana

And to flip the question back: how is believing in something that no one knows for sure exists logical?

Hmm, sorry, but I don't follow your logic.

Belief is based on believing, not logic or proof. That what faith is - if it could be proven for sure, it wouldn't be faith, but science.

It makes as much sense as the post it was a reply to. He asked how believing in nothing is logical, I merely reversed the question.

I don't believe in anything on just faith....and proving something doesn't make it science, it simply makes it true.

Same applies to him - what he suggested makes even less sense, for the reasons above.

"Is Christianity the answer?"

Yes, to the question nobody asked.

Originally posted by gp christ loves
and your satisfied with believeing in nothing i'm sorry but thats just not logical

I don't think I said I didn't believe in anything. I just don't believe in "Christ" As for logic, is it logical to believe in the easter bunny or santa claus?

Well lets see; Santa offers presents, the Easter Bunny offers candy, And Jesus offers salvation; I think I'll go with the latter.


I said yes I believe in Christianity on the poll but that is not the answer I would prefer to have said. I don't like religion because you get into the ritual of it all and that turns into the motions every day and becomes part of your schedule and many times religion results in hate mongering.
I prefer a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and that is more fufilling than any "religion."

For those doubters that scoff at him and believe otherwise; if you take a deep look into what the bible says if it were really true and what Jesus set out to accomplish (and in my book what he did accomplish), it is abolutely mind blowing that he would have that much love for us to sacrifice himself to save us all.

I don't scuff at him, But I feel that many of the scriptures were changed by the early church..Catholic Fathers to suit their purposes..Otherwise. I love Jesus and what he taught.

The only place where faith and logic meet is in Geometry, and I will explain how.

Theorum - A proved fact. (Geometric term, *NOT* a "theory"
Postulate - An accepted statement that cannot be proven.

This, I believe, is the only, only, only place where faith and logic should meet.

Faith isn't logical. Faith is the above postulate, though it might not be accepted world wide.

So it is perfectly logical to have no faith, since it cannot be proved by logic.

As for dinosaurs, ect., they do mention one such creature in the Old Testament, I believe by the name of Levanthian...Where is that Age of Mythology guide...Well, its spelled to something of that effect. It is decribed as being massive, whale-like, and water dwelling, scaley as well. Sounds like some sort of dinosaur to me.

I am a faint believer in Christianity. I have no true denomination, but I have a mixture of Presbyterian, Agnostic, other reformed churches, Buddhist, and a few Shinto beliefs.

Religion does little to answer questions, it often adds more.

Originally posted by Echuu
Well lets see; Santa offers presents, the Easter Bunny offers candy, And Jesus offers salvation; I think I'll go with the latter.





You are only proving true what so many people believe about the majority of christians, and the logic they choose to throw out the window.

hehe, I just had a huge argument about the Logic of a higher being with my father,
Very interesting though. Not at all catholic orieted.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
If you want answers to your question, why would you want a Christian to answer? If your question is "Is Christianity the answer" and then you want a christian to answer, your already know the what answer you're goign to get. Conversly, if you want a non-religious person to answer, you know the answer you'll get then.


Mebby I didn't put this accross properly, got a habit of doing that lol. What i wanted was to see why christians believe what they believe, which is mebby a misleading title for the thread. Because its a very intresting discussion, although it technically closes off all other religous possibliltys within the thread header. Sorry i'm rambling.

I know christians will say yes it is the answer, but as more ppl are beginning to ask the question "why?" then it creates a difficult time or mebby a rather easy time for the christians to answer.

Aetheists will no doubt say no to the title question. But as you will no doubt be aware, having a faith can be a very unpopular choice, and surely all these aethiests have more reason than surely "its not cool".

I would much rather believe the christians but I am one of the ppl asking the question "why?" so u can hopefully if i've managed to put myself accross properly in this mini essay understand what i meant lol.

Another question, can you trust a church who will change its beliefs because its beliefs may be "uncool"?

What do you mean by 'uncool'?

If they are changing then because they are outdated, then in my opinion it is the right thing to so. We cannot live in Ancient times forever...

so biased here.. never going to get a straight answer

Well from what i remember of being in high school, only just left, it was sorta u were gonna get a slated if u mentioned u wanted to go to church, or though about stuff like that.

Yeah thats a good point, but should they change to the extent that they are going against what the bible says?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
You are only proving true what so many people believe about the majority of christians, and the logic they choose to throw out the window.

That was more or less meant as a joke you know.

I really don't see what problem you have with me being a Christian. Am I hurting you or something?

One of the main points in Christianity is FAITH. One of the definitions of faith is "believing without proof." That is illogical, no?

You say "what many people believe about the majority of Christians."
Is that meaning we are living a fairytale? A lie?

It's ironic that so many people say that Chistianity makes so little sense when it really does make sense; more than any religion I know.
God created humans for his enjoyment, fellowship, and company. We sinned and lost hope of an eternal life. God loved us sooo much that he sent his son to die for us as a sacrifice for our sins and so we could be with him for ever and have one more chance.

Originally posted by Echuu

I really don't see what problem you have with me being a Christian. Am I hurting you or something?



I have been waiting for the day a christian asked this question. Thank you, I've been waiting a long time for this moment. As a gay man, I have asked this of christians many times.

As for my response to this question, I have no issues with you being a christian, or having christian ideals. What I have a problem with is that your religion means as much to you as my life does to me. My life with equal rights, my life being free from harassment or prejudice. As I said in another thread, you don't want to see me kiss my boyfriend in public, and I don't want to see you praying in public. As much as my life offends you, yours offends me. Me being gay doesn't prevent you from being a happy christian, but you being a satisfied christian prevents me from being happy. This, of course, doesn't apply to you. I don't know you. I don't know how you feel about homosexuality. And lumping all christians into one group of uniformed and illogical sheep(a term you guys use to describe yourself I might add) makes me just as guilty as the christian who lumps all gay people into the same category. But, I'm not trying to keep you from having rights. Therein lies the difference. I'll admit, there are times that I look at flamboyant gay men and regard them with disgust, because I feel they set the stereotype we are all judged by...unfairly. But you know what? I'd kill for that gay mans right to act effiminate. Because we shouldn't have to change for god, Bush and his followers, or the straight guy down the street. I'm a human, just like you. Just because I can match my shoes to my shirts doesn't mean I deserve less rights than you or the next human being.

Originally posted by finti
totally atheist


Totally christian

(no wonder me and finti are such great buds )

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I have been waiting for the day a christian asked this question. Thank you, I've been waiting a long time for this moment. As a gay man, I have asked this of christians many times.

As for my response to this question, I have no issues with you being a christian, or having christian ideals. What I have a problem with is that your religion means as much to you as my life does to me. My life with equal rights, my life being free from harassment or prejudice. As I said in another thread, you don't want to see me kiss my boyfriend in public, and I don't want to see you praying in public. As much as my life offends you, yours offends me. Me being gay doesn't prevent you from being a happy christian, but you being a satisfied christian prevents me from being happy. This, of course, doesn't apply to you. I don't know you. I don't know how you feel about homosexuality. And lumping all christians into one group of uniformed and illogical sheep(a term you guys use to describe yourself I might add) makes me just as guilty as the christian who lumps all gay people into the same category. But, I'm not trying to keep you from having rights. Therein lies the difference. I'll admit, there are times that I look at flamboyant gay men and regard them with disgust, because I feel they set the stereotype we are all judged by...unfairly. But you know what? I'd kill for that gay mans right to act effiminate. Because we shouldn't have to change for god, Bush and his followers, or the straight guy down the street. I'm a human, just like you. Just because I can match my shoes to my shirts doesn't mean I deserve less rights than you or the next human being.

Coolio; I don't care for homosexuality but I'm not gonna force my beliefs on you, I'm gonna let you know where I stand and leave it at that. I don't really see how me being a happy Chistian interfers with you at all. I'm not going to discriminate. You can kiss your guy friend in public all you want. I may not agree with it and find it opposite to what I believe but I'm not gonna start screaming and whining about it. But I think I should be able to pray in public also.

Honestly your life doesn't offend me too much. It's what you want to do. If I meet a gay guy and become friends I will tell him I don't want him flirting with me or anything like that because I'm straight. I will also tell him I disagree with his lifestyle and witness to him. If he rejects that I will stop and stay friends.

You deserve every right that the next man does, as do I.

I didn't say happy. I said satisfied.

huh? could you re-state that.


I don't care what you believe- its your life

how does me being satisfied prevent you from being happy again?

Because to be satisfied, you will have to preach to me. There's no need. I spent my entire life in Catholic school, and if a nun with a ruler isn't gonna convince me, you won't either. Save your breath, just be my friend and leave it at that. What does your religion have to do with anything? If we are friends, then it has nothing to do with who I sleep with. That is the catch 22 in christianity. The viscious cycle. No one asked you to tell anyone the "truth" that Jesus espoused. I believe in Jesus, I don't believe he was god made man, but his teachings are to be respected. It's just too bad that so many of his followers has taken his teachings down a totally different road than was intended. If you have no problem with me, then I have no problem with you.

What!!? I said I would tell you what I believe and then drop it; I don't consider that preaching.
I don;t agree with a viscious cycle.



Good, cuz I don't have a problem with you

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
I'm just wondering, if anyone preferably a christian could give me their view on is christianity true because i'd like to believe it but struggle with it. I'd like to see without any insults or mockery why ppl believe what they believe.

I was bought up jewish but yet do not believe in it.I do believe in creation that god made us but believeing in god himself is really hard for me because I been taught differently.
Right now I am really nothering.JM

Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
Right now I am really nothering.JM

More true words were never spoken....poorly spoken, but true none the less.



Originally posted by Echuu
What!!? I said I would tell you what I believe and then drop it; I don't consider that preaching.
I don;t agree with a viscious cycle.



Good, cuz I don't have a problem with you

The viscious cycle part comes in to play when you don't realize that I didn't ask you to share your beliefs with me. I believe that religion and spirituality is a personal matter. Even christians believe that judgment comes based on the actions of the individual. As Adam said earlier, christianity is the answer to a question nobody asked. The only people who don't understand that are christians. Just like in Batman, when the Joker is looking at himself in the mirror and Mick Jaggers wife says, "You look fine" and he responds with "I didn't ask." I don't need you to tell me anything. I don't need you to tell me god doesn't like the fact that I suck dick. I don't need you to tell me that your god thinks sleeping with another man is wrong. NO ONE ASKED YOU! NO ONE ASKED YOUR GOD! It is written in the bible that the believers should convert the non believers. THAT IS THE CATCH 22 TO WHICH I REFFER. It's an endless cycle. CHRIST, when did this country become Utah? You don't care what made me gay, and I don't care why you're christian. Just order us another round and we'll be fine.

LOL

I'm not viscious; just doing my duty; wouldn't you go to a gay rally to show others what you think and be proud of what you are?

But anyway; i agree, just order another round...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
"Is Christianity the answer?"

Yes, to the question nobody asked.
Like, "What is the branch of religion that allows me to have eternal life?"

Originally posted by Echuu
LOL

I'm not viscious; just doing my duty; wouldn't you go to a gay rally to show others what you think and be proud of what you are?

But anyway; i agree, just order another round...

No, I would not go to a gay rally. I don't believe in the term "gay rights". It only serves to further seperate gay people from the rest of society. I also don't watch shows like Queer as Folk or Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. It makes gay people the center ring act for a public that already treats them like freaks to be laughed at. I'm not proud of being gay, it's nothing to be proud of. It's just another fact of life.

Perhaps it is good not to be proud and not to be ashamed but content and accepting of your identity. Same applies to Christian.

To me, sexuality does not exist. I partaly believe in Freudian theory of homosexuality, but thats just me.
We are all born with bisexual tendencies - some more than others.

Christianity in America is so fundamentalist at places, but not at others as I nderstand, and as a member of Amnesty International, I read about all kinds of atroticies around the world.
My observation is that gay people, and other religions, practice more rights in the west than anywhere else in the world, as human.

At the same time - America (ironicly) claims to be the land of the free and the land of the brave, yet it restricts people based on what the bible says...thats not what the land of the free should be doing - thats not what west should be doing. Thats the kind of thing expected in places like Saudi Arabia, NOT America...

"You cant make everybody happy", is probably the response you would from somebody other than me.

well can you

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
At the same time - America (ironicly) claims to be the land of the free and the land of the brave, yet it restricts people based on what the bible says...

Well you gotta remember that America was founded by "religious zealots" like George Wahington.

most American fathers were deist

But back to the topic.
Yes and No.

It has been my belief (a very proud catholic) that the pavement to salvation is made of many things. You can be the good athiest, and still get into heaven. Likewise those who found there religions in mix. However quite contrary I find it my utmost resposiblity to try and convert as many to the catholic faith. I do this because I believe this duty to mine and of the others who seek to spread the Truth.

Your problems with bible translations and doubts are well placed. Because when one asks a question, he better learns the concept. But do not let the doubt form hatred and lies. Doubt, but seek answers, and seek Truth, for wolves hide among the lambs.

As for logic playing a role in religion, it is all dependent on the reciever. Logic has proven to actually assist the faith. More on that when I find where I saw it.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
But back to the topic.
Yes and No.

It has been my belief (a very proud catholic) that the pavement to salvation is made of many things. You can be the good athiest, and still get into heaven. Likewise those who found there religions in mix. However quite contrary I find it my utmost resposiblity to try and convert as many to the catholic faith. I do this because I believe this duty to mine and of the others who seek to spread the Truth.

Your problems with bible translations and doubts are well placed. Because when one asks a question, he better learns the concept. But do not let the doubt form hatred and lies. Doubt, but seek answers, and seek Truth, for wolves hide among the lambs.

As for logic playing a role in religion, it is all dependent on the reciever. Logic has proven to actually assist the faith. More on that when I find where I saw it.

srry bout that


So do you take the entire bible as a whole and believe it as God's word?

Originally posted by Echuu
srry bout that


So do you take the entire bible as a whole and believe it as God's word?

yes and no.
Somethings in the bible can be translated directly into our everyday lives (take the ten commandments) other things must me "translated" to fit todays modern time, but not to lose their morals.

But yes God would not allow his only direct source of truth to be tainted by human words, and wants.

Ok; cuz you do realize that Jesus said that "no man comes to father but by me"; so your previous statement about atheists getting to heaven would be opposite of that.

Originally posted by Echuu
Ok; cuz you do realize that Jesus said that "no man comes to father but by me"; so your previous statement about atheists getting to heaven would be opposite of that.

It's more, "no one can come to me, unless the father beckons."

eh but the verse is "i am the way the truth and the light, no man comes to the father but by me"- so i dont think it is as the father beckons.
its reffering to people coming to God, not Jesus.

Originally posted by Echuu
eh but the verse is "i am the way the truth and the light, no man comes to the father but by me"- so i dont think it is as the father beckons.
its reffering to people coming to God, not Jesus.

But Jesus is God.

Yes of course there is the 3 in one aspect but they are also unique. It's more like they have direct communication with each other or are connected extemely close. It is something very interesting to ponder.

One way they are unique is because Jesus went back up to heaven and the holy spirit came in his stead. If they were EXACTLY the same there would be no point in that happening would there?

Originally posted by Echuu
Yes of course there is the 3 in one aspect but they are also unique. It's more like they have direct communication with each other or are connected extemely close. It is something very interesting to ponder.

One way they are unique is because Jesus went back up to heaven and the holy spirit came in his stead. If they were EXACTLY the same there would be no point in that happening would there?

But you have two counters.

#1-Jesus said he'd send the holy spirit to help them, not literally of course.
#2-Jesus was getting them used to the fact that he could no longer just appear to them. Like Jesus doesn't work conversions by simply coming down to people and saying "convert". But rather through our examples and leadership that is "Christ inspired" (i.e. the Holy Spirit).
#3-Jesus is now at the throne of Heaven, the King of the Universe. As every king he has a mesenger. And that mesenger is the paraclete. Not because he's lazy but rather because of symbolism.

Sorry, ment three

What do you mean three counters? As in examples I can come up with more.

God- the final judge and creator of the universe
Jesus Christ- Our savior, he is preparing a place for us in heaven; he is our mediator when God judges us.
Holy Spirit- Sent from Jesus after he ascended to heaven to be in his stead because he could not remain any longer on earth with us.

You also have to keep in mind that the three were revealed at different times, not at once, which further proves that they have a unique sense to them even though they are also 3in1.

Where would I vote if I'm a Taoist? I mean, I believe in a higher order to the universe, but I don't subscribe to any "god" or "goddess" figure(s). I don't consder myself a "Total Atheist," but I don't consider myself a "theist" as I don't hold belief in a singular entity (the Tao is not an entity.) which holds sway over the universe. So, where would I vote?

Probably the "don't know."

Hey, Its quite intresting to see how this has developed. And you know what the one thing is, i've seen plenty of things against christianity, but i've not seen a bit of proof for it. I suppose thats what u cal faith lol.

As an ex-christian, I think I can give you a good overview of why I lost my faith and settled in a comfortable state of Atheism. I had the very unfortunate experience of growing up in a pentacostal household, where my family spoke tongues, went to church every time the doors were open, the women were not allowed to wear make-up or pants, or to cut their hair. When I was 13 years old, my family and congregation could not BELIEEEEEVE that I had not yet been baptised and accepted Jesus into my heart, so in a sense they all made me feel severely obligated and mind raped me into doing so. They all told me that when I came up from being submersed in the baptismal waters, I would be dancing and speaking in tongues and yada yada yada. Well, when I didnt dance around like an idiot and speak in gibberish like a lush, thay all chastized me for not "being faithful enough" saying it didnt work because I didnt want it enough. Since that day I began questioning the whole "god" thing and analyizing things VERY carefully. The way I see it, is that thousands of years ago the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Norse, Aztecs, Indians, whoever...........had their pantheon of Gods/Goddesses and their religious manuscripts and they all KNEW that without a doubt that they were 100% right in their beliefs/faiths. Now here in the year 2005, we look at their beliefs and we call them mythology and chuckle at the "stories". Furthermore, ever seen the movie "Contact"? Jodie Foster says to try to imagine how infinitly vast the whole universe is. In cosmic terms we are a subatomic particle in a grain of sand on an infinite beach. If Earth is the only planet with life on it, like some Christians actually believe, then that is a BIG DAMN WASTE OF SPACE. We just made up religion. Religion is made by man, for man. To answer the questions that cant be answered: Where did we come from, Why are we here, and what happens when we die. Thats all it is. To ease the fear of not knowing. I dunno, maybe Im rambling now, but I for one have never seen or felt a god of anykind to even remotely believe anymore. The thing that I fell I struggled with was the whole "God is love" thing, but I look at the world and i see all the horrible things around us these days. And for all those who might be wondering, I am a very happy individual with a loving family and friends who love and accept me for who I am, and I wouldnt trade my life for anything.

Originally posted by Impediment
As an ex-christian, I think I can give you a good overview of why I lost my faith and settled in a comfortable state of Atheism. I had the very unfortunate experience of growing up in a pentacostal household, where my family spoke tongues, went to church every time the doors were open, the women were not allowed to wear make-up or pants, or to cut their hair. When I was 13 years old, my family and congregation could not BELIEEEEEVE that I had not yet been baptised and accepted Jesus into my heart, so in a sense they all made me feel severely obligated and mind raped me into doing so. They all told me that when I came up from being submersed in the baptismal waters, I would be dancing and speaking in tongues and yada yada yada. Well, when I didnt dance around like an idiot and speak in gibberish like a lush, thay all chastized me for not "being faithful enough" saying it didnt work because I didnt want it enough. Since that day I began questioning the whole "god" thing and analyizing things VERY carefully. The way I see it, is that thousands of years ago the ancient Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Norse, Aztecs, Indians, whoever...........had their pantheon of Gods/Goddesses and their religious manuscripts and they all KNEW that without a doubt that they were 100% right in their beliefs/faiths. Now here in the year 2005, we look at their beliefs and we call them mythology and chuckle at the "stories". Furthermore, ever seen the movie "Contact"? Jodie Foster says to try to imagine how infinitly vast the whole universe is. In cosmic terms we are a subatomic particle in a grain of sand on an infinite beach. If Earth is the only planet with life on it, like some Christians actually believe, then that is a BIG DAMN WASTE OF SPACE. We just made up religion. Religion is made by man, for man. To answer the questions that cant be answered: Where did we come from, Why are we here, and what happens when we die. Thats all it is. To ease the fear of not knowing. I dunno, maybe Im rambling now, but I for one have never seen or felt a god of anykind to even remotely believe anymore. The thing that I fell I struggled with was the whole "God is love" thing, but I look at the world and i see all the horrible things around us these days. And for all those who might be wondering, I am a very happy individual with a loving family and friends who love and accept me for who I am, and I wouldnt trade my life for anything.

Well said. And congratualtions on being able to step outside of the ideals forced on you your entire life. I did much the same thing with catholocism. In studying the different religions(granted over the course of a 12 year catholic education, and from an enforced catholic stand point) I've found that at least catholocism is structured in a human oriented way. It is the least hypocritical of all the christ based religions. It provided the most loop-holes, which in my opinion, is like a built in admission of the opinion that religion was created for man, by man.

But for me, the key moment was when the Bishop of our diocease came to visit my high school. He gave this long speech about helping the needy in our community, he talked about Mother Theresas funneral(which he had just returned from) and about how we are all called to lead a life of service and sacrifice in favor of the more needy in our community. Then, he addressed how kind all of us had been to him on his "all too infrequent" visit and as a gesture of gratitude, we would all have the very next Friday off of school. The crowd cheered and clapped and I'm sure people in the crowd were glad to be catholic. When it was all over with, he took off his pointy hat and got into his brand new Mercedes and drove off into the sunset...no doubt to one of the 4 homes he had control over, staffed with dozens of clerical assistants to act as butlers, maids and cleaning personnel. Was this the call to service they heard the moment they decided to "give their lives to god?" Dusting an antique table in the hallways of some oversized private estate owned by the catholic church? When the Bishop called for us to give more, do more and feel more for the needy in our community; does that exclude riding around in a brand new Mercedes, while others in the community went without food? How many "needy families" could have been fed with the money it cost to purchase that car? And the Pope! For god's sake, he lives in his own gold plated city! I understand that he's an important political figure on the world stage, but the president is more important than the Pope, and he doesn't have a golden city all to himself and his followers. And, I haven't quite put my finger on it; but the fact that the Swiss guard is the Pope's personal guard and Switzerland is where all the money is... Okay, that last part was a joke. But, the hypocrisy in the thought, deed and creed of the Catholic church is outdated, overly lavish and self serving.

Why is the Catholic church growing by leaps and bounds in third world countries? For the same reason you mentioned in your post about looking back on the ancient religions and considering them archaic. Because no one is educated in these third world countries. They live in shit and their old beliefs are made to seem that way by the modern luxury of clean water provided by the Catholic church...and christianity as a whole.

Hmmmm, I had a rather intresting discussion with a guy at uni today, who said that "Science without religon is lame" hmmm, as a scientist, (student one, but still a scientist lol) i'm beginning to dislike them.

Scientist's were murdered and worse pre 1600, because the church thought they were uneffical. Hmm, mebby scared the truth will come out?

I think that the two example of Impediment and Captain Fantastic are good examples of stepping out but also good example at how some churchs totally screw up everything that Jesus taught.

One thing thats ridiculous about the pantheon and what not is that those Gods they worshiped were just as bad as humans as far as immorality. The only thing that really seperated them from humans was their supernatural ability or likeness; behavior was basically the same.

I'd also like to add one more thing to my earlier statement: I do not hate Christians/Christianity or any other religion and its believers, I simply do not believe in one bit of any of it. Like most atheists and agnostics, we are usually unfairly stereotyped as being evil and bad people.

I've also been raised in a Pentecostal church until age 14/15. I never could dance or speak in tongues...They do teach that if certain things DON'T happen to you whether it's a healing or what ever, then you don't have enough faith..If bad things start happening, then there are demons attacking you...Demons, demons everywhere...I started studding different religions to get to what the truth was, and came to the conclusion that the Christian religions were probably redone paganism..There is much history to show that, though I do believe that Jesus was real, but that he could have been distorted by the church. I do, however, believe that there is a God...There is just too much proof on how perfectly things fit together...

That's so stupid. What is with it with these chruchs? Yes it must be demons!!!!! Look deb there's one behind you!!!!!

NO!! Don't say that.....

Lol..

YES..According to my poor step-mother..there was a demon in the house..and yup, my room was in the basement.
Also, according to her, my dads work partner had one, and it jumped into my dad...Of course being a rebellious teen, I also had one...I had to visit her pastor to prove I didn't have one...Oh..lets see, my friends van kept breaking down, so it to had a demon..I tell ya, they're everywhere.

WATCH OUT! They'll get you to if you go to a Pentecostal church devil2

..Sorry if that offends anyone...just my experience...

so sad..

I still do consider myself a Christian, just a little different... If I told them what I think, I'm sure they would all pray for me, cause I'M A HERETIC.

Lord Foulgrin's Letters and The Ishbane Conspiracy give a much better account of what demons are like. I would highly recommend picking them up.

The one thing that's got most people confused in the modern day world, is the direct translations of ancient times into modern times.

For example I would strongely agree the immediate seperation of a Pentacostal religion, but not an abandonment of the moral foundations. The foundations are the Christ like ethics, (i.e. Love you neighbor, and love God), the society ethics (ten commandments), and the self ethics ("Unto thee cause no personal harm, and maintain yourself pure. For you are the temple of God, and his Holy Spirit.)

If you do this, you can call youself a child of God. But when you are persecuted by your friends, family, and society and at times you feel like your going to die, don't and just keep walking. Because the way how I see it, is that if your doing what's right, it should get even more tougher. If your doing what's wrong, God will stop you along the path and tell you where to go.

Sometimes, to find happiness an union with God, we have to speperate with God. But when we finally find our anwer to our doubt, and happiness in our life, it will be when we find union with God.

What you have to ask yourself is, What is the union of God?.

What I have to ask myself is, "Will I shut my ears to the world, with their arrogant cries that Christianity is untrue and anyone who is a Christian is an unscientific fool, a homophobe, a judgmental bastard? Shall I put my faith in the One I know will protect me and welcome me into His arms when I dictate? Or shall I follow the crowd and scientific community, renouncing my faith while leaning on the wisdom of men?"

Call me ignorant, unlearned, idiotic, and moronic; tell me I'm just deluding myself. Jeer at me, saying that my religion is a crutch and that I'm the cause of so many problems. Go ahead and despise me.

We'll see who is laughing when we're dead.

Union with God is right...And people can..It's a deep conection on a spiritual level...And I don't mean ACTING spiritual...It's a private thing...A connection of the mind...

Originally posted by FeceMan
What I have to ask myself is, "Will I shut my ears to the world, with their arrogant cries that Christianity is untrue and anyone who is a Christian is an unscientific fool, a homophobe, a judgmental bastard? Shall I put my faith in the One I know will protect me and welcome me into His arms when I dictate? Or shall I follow the crowd and scientific community, renouncing my faith while leaning on the wisdom of men?"

Call me ignorant, unlearned, idiotic, and moronic; tell me I'm just deluding myself. Jeer at me, saying that my religion is a crutch and that I'm the cause of so many problems. Go ahead and despise me.

We'll see who is laughing when we're dead.

Read the psalms. Learn the proverbs. Remember always the teaching of Christ, our Lord and Savior. I am a Catholic, Let the record show. And the only way that I believe that people truley understand the concept of Christianity is when the join, not only of free will, but of pure of heart as well. By this I mean that they truley have to believe that what they are about to do is the greatest thing of their lives, and to do this we must show them through our example, and happiness.

"Go against the current, unless it takes you further from God."

"Spread the Gospel of the Lord, and if necessary, use words."

Originally posted by FeceMan
What I have to ask myself is, "Will I shut my ears to the world, with their arrogant cries that Christianity is untrue and anyone who is a Christian is an unscientific fool, a homophobe, a judgmental bastard? Shall I put my faith in the One I know will protect me and welcome me into His arms when I dictate? Or shall I follow the crowd and scientific community, renouncing my faith while leaning on the wisdom of men?"

Call me ignorant, unlearned, idiotic, and moronic; tell me I'm just deluding myself. Jeer at me, saying that my religion is a crutch and that I'm the cause of so many problems. Go ahead and despise me.

We'll see who is laughing when we're dead.

so, I can call you shit, right?

Science is the answer because religion(all of them) have given us NO answers. It so obvious. Each day proves that the bible (any bible) is 100%, with out any doubt what so ever, a fictional tale created by cowards who were afraid of death. People debate, argue, get no answer, then start wars out of frustation. Church and state have been divided in most countries which is a start, but not enough. Religion is a sign a weakness and a flaw of character. Science is the only god worth worshipping and was created by poeple who realized that we were never going to get a straight answer. You wouldn't be talking on this chatroom if it wasn't for these " Godless heathens." Petty hope is obsolete. The dinosaurs were real. Proof is the new scripture, not mind games by some god who sits and watches kids get cancer, planes smash into buildings, old ladies get raped, dogs getting beaten, NBC Network getting good ratings, Bryant Gumball, Micheal Jackson skipping court, Micheal Bay ruining Horror movie remakes. If God does exist he has fallen asleep at the wheel. F*uck him!

Originally posted by Darth Odious
NBC Network getting good ratings






Has anything extremely horrible happened in your life that has scared you for good?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
so, I can call you shit, right?

Don't lower yourself unto his level.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Don't lower yourself unto his level.

I'm not lowering myself to his level. I don't think it's a level to which I need to lower myself to reach. He understands what I'm saying. It's a joke.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I'm not lowering myself to his level. I don't think it's a level to which I need to lower myself to reach. He understands what I'm saying. It's a joke.

Ok, I apologize for that. Sometimes I don't catch on as quickely.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Don't lower yourself unto his level.
WTF, my level? Sheesh, I don't even get any respect from my fellow Christians.

And yes, Capt is correct, it is a joke.

Originally posted by FeceMan
WTF, my level? Sheesh, I don't even get any respect from my fellow Christians.

And yes, Capt is correct, it is a joke.

Thus the apology.

As far as asking if Christianity is the answer, I would also like to add something of a question myself: Why is it that so many pedophiles are catholic priests? In the words of the immortal George Carlin: "When Jesus said, 'Suffer the little children, come unto me' , thats NOT what he was talking about, folks!!!" In my opinion, things like these would indefintatley sway me to other beliefs, convinced that evil people hide behind a mask of faith and righteousness in the Christian faith, and others as well.
dev

Yup unfortunate and sad...And also in protestant churches as well..

Wolves in sheep's clothing...The worst kind, because priests and pastors..etc are put on pedestals, almost like god, in the eyes of a child..such betrayal..

Originally posted by FeceMan
WTF, my level? Sheesh, I don't even get any respect from my fellow Christians.

And yes, Capt is correct, it is a joke.

WHAT!...you're a christian!? All bets are off. As are the gloves, you fairy tale worshipping little shit.

Originally posted by Impediment
As far as asking if Christianity is the answer, I would also like to add something of a question myself: Why is it that so many pedophiles are catholic priests? dev

Because you don't get paid and you don't get laid. What more reason could you ask for?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
WHAT!...you're a christian!? All bets are off. As are the gloves, you fairy tale worshipping little shit.





Lol, not qute sure if your joking or serious there capt. lol.

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
Lol, not qute sure if your joking or serious there capt. lol.

It was a joke.

In that case its quite funny, lol

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Because you don't get paid and you don't get laid. What more reason could you ask for?


Capt, have you been...utilizing controlled substances lately?

Originally posted by FeceMan


Capt, have you been...utilizing controlled substances lately?

What makes you think that? And they aren't controlling them very well.

Hey, let's stick to the topic shall we? I wouldn't want this thread being turned into a free for all.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Hey, let's stick to the topic shall we? I wouldn't want this thread being turned into a free for all.

too late

I was afraid of that.

Originally posted by Echuu





Has anything extremely horrible happened in your life that has scared you for good? Birth. Tea any one?

Originally posted by FeceMan
WTF, my level? Sheesh, I don't even get any respect from my fellow Christians.

And yes, Capt is correct, it is a joke. Many will come in My name, but only few will enter.

Originally posted by Darth Odious
Many will come in My name, but only few will enter.
Your point being?

Is Christianity the answer....hummmm. OK what church?
Catholic
Methodist
Baptist
Seventh Day Adventist
World Wide Church of God
Presbyterian
Church of God
Mormons
JW's
Messianic Jews
Reformed
Pentecostal
Lutheran
Home Bible Groups
People who cant make up their minds, but do have good fruits
People who believe in God as 3 different personalities
People who believe in God as Only One and only one person.
People who believe in God, but not Jesus as Gods son, but have the fruits.
People who believe in one God, but call Him a different name.
People who believe in 3 gods, but call them different names, but one of them was crucified for their sins and rose on the 3rd day.

What group will God reward with the prize?



Unless i'm wrong, Jesus Never called himself the Son of God..Or God for that matter..Infact, He said, "Why do you call me good? Only God is good."

Originally posted by debbiejo
Unless i'm wrong, Jesus Never called himself the Son of God..Or God for that matter..Infact, He said, "Why do you call me good? Only God is good."

That's not true. Many times in the bible Jesus mentions that he is either the Son of God, or God himself. Not to exalt himself, or to boast, but rather to "remind".

Originally posted by debbiejo
Unless i'm wrong, Jesus Never called himself the Son of God..Or God for that matter..Infact, He said, "Why do you call me good? Only God is good."

That's not true. Many times in the bible Jesus does refer to himself as the Son of God, or God himself, more indirectly than directly. But he doesn't do it to exalt himself or to boast, but rather to prove a point.

Crap, double posted again.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
That's not true. Many times in the bible Jesus does refer to himself as the Son of God, or God himself, more indirectly than directly. But he doesn't do it to exalt himself or to boast, but rather to prove a point.

In the original Hebrew, the term "Son of God" meant belonging to..Just as "Son of Man" meant. Belonging to..

We all belong to God and we are also of fleshly bodies, belonging to the human race..

So, for me it would..I am the daughter of man - belonging to the human race.

And I am the daughter of God - belonging to God.

No he says stuff like "whoever sees the father sees me." "Shall I not drink the Father has given me?"

Even when the the leader of the pharecies came to Jesus and asked, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" Christ Replied, "I am, and you shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of the Almighty One and coming on the clouds of Heaven."
"Why do we need any more witnesses." (Mark 14:61-63)

Now you guys see the major problem with christianity. You two can't even agree on it, and you're on the same side.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
No he says stuff like "whoever sees the father sees me." "Shall I not drink the Father has given me?"

Even when the the leader of the pharecies came to Jesus and asked, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" Christ Replied, "I am, and you shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of the Almighty One and coming on the clouds of Heaven."
"Why do we need any more witnesses." (Mark 14:61-63)


Then why did Jesus say..."Why do you call me good, ONLY one is good and that is God." He is stating He is not God.

probably to say that good is a bad discription. Or humility.

Maybe Jesus was here to lead us to God...But is not God Himself. He states He is not God. He also said that the "Kingdom of Heaven is within, so don't say it's here or there." If this is true, then there is no Heaven like the one we imagine. But a way of living. Also He said, concerning Heaven in the Lords Prayer,

Our Father who art in HEAVEN (where is heaven? It is in us. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you..HE said.

Thy Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in HEAVEN. Where is Heaven? The Heaven He is talking about is not a place, because He said "It is not here or there." He TOLD us where it is....

So, Jesus didn't say, believe in me and you will go to Heaven...I feel He came here to teach us how to get to HEAVEN, the heaven within us.

And of course He already stated that He was not God. "Why do you call me good, only God is good."

Originally posted by debbiejo
Maybe Jesus was here to lead us to God...But is not God Himself. He states He is not God. He also said that the "Kingdom of Heaven is within, so don't say it's here or there." If this is true, then there is no Heaven like the one we imagine. But a way of living. Also He said, concerning Heaven in the Lords Prayer,

Our Father who art in HEAVEN (where is heaven? It is in us. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you..HE said.

Thy Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in HEAVEN. Where is Heaven? The Heaven He is talking about is not a place, because He said "It is not here or there." He TOLD us where it is....

So, Jesus didn't say, believe in me and you will go to Heaven...I feel He came here to teach us how to get to HEAVEN, the heaven within us.

And of course He already stated that He was not God. "Why do you call me good, only God is good."

crybaby these are tears of joy. You are absolutely correct. The Kingdom of Heaven is us. We are the Kingdom of Heaven. It is by our actions do we merit it. However to much of this epiphany of yours, Christ is God. In the statement you have to look at it outside the broder sense, outside th box. He said "Why do you call me good, only God is good." He ment it in the sense, God breathed life into all of us. We are all among God, always. When they said "Christ you are good." He was saying, "As apposed to what? Who isn't good?" God created all things good. And that is why we are temples of the holy spirit. One of the 3 versions of God. Thus the Holy Trinity. God is good, so Was Christ. But he didn't want them focusing just on him. It was an act of humility. Just like if you were to congratulate me I would simply respond, "Thanks, but if it wasn't for God, i couldn't have done it." I gave the credit to God as an act of humility. Just like Christ gave the credit to God in your quote.

Well, to the main question, as well as the other points I've skimmed over, here:

I hear many people say they can't go on such little fact of gods existence. The way I think of that is, why can someone believe in gravity, but not God. You can't see or feel gravity right? So who's to say it's even there?

Now the simple reason to follow Christianity, take the rules and you have perfection. Look at it: Thou shall not kill/steal/bear false witness/etc. Everything has a spiritual and logical purpose. The ones above are self explanitory. Now lust and pre-marital sex, sell obviously, wiaintg till after marriage helps lessen the chance of std's...lust, well, it provokes pre-marital sex so yeah. And so on and on, I'll elaborate more if needed. So at that, it's just logical TO follow it.

Other Proof: Look at possesion of athiests. They don't believe in satan, yet they writhe around claiming to be demons, that's not all in your mind people.
Look at miracles-christians who handle and even dance with snakes and drink the venom, but they don't die. Doctors still don't see why. I'm sorry but if anyone can ignore all this than...just wow...they must be stubborn or EXTREMELY logical. Ofcourse, that's my thoughts on it...

because you can prove gravity
generalisation, you dont know all atheist so instead of they you should use the word some

well I am extremly logical, to be anything else wouldnt make sence to me

My point about gravity is: You can prove it just as much as you can gods existence. I don't understand one thing: People question religion, but not other things. "How do we exists if not for god?" "Did we really land on the moon?" "Is gravity a lie?" "If we thought the earth was flat when we thought we knew everything, what makes you think we know enough to prove gravity or mass? We could just be stupid to it all.." Ah anyway, I'm not trying to convince anyone here but the topic creator....so my answer still stands above.

throw up a rock and see what happens, now prove god


thats because you cant see beyond your faith, for us we leave "if not for god part out" to us that has no purpose at all

Throw a rock up and see what happens? It falls back down, but how do we know that's not because we believe it will fall back down? Or maybe the aliens have a pulse laser that pushes it down?

Gods proof (in the closest manner to what info you gave to prove gravity): Christians eating venom and not dying/human existence/christians often being happier/babtism results/free will/and so on, sure, you could say they have other reasons, but I can about gravity as well right? My point I'd say is proven. I'll elaborate if I must though...

well if eating venom was to prove god for the christians why dont all the christians practice this then, christians being happier than who? All the people I know and associate whit are happy as can be none are christians though. free will? who hasnt got free will? ohh young kids who have christian parents do they have a free will about having to follow their parents to church or not?

Eating/drinking venom doesnt prove a god at all, it aint only christians preforming that trick so why would/should this work for non christians as well.

Gravity exist within the core of the earth it pulls things toward earth, as long as none can prove otherwise we can say that gravity has been proven.

Now if christian wanna prove god, let them all drink venom and let see what happens, maybe that could be a way of telling the ones strong with faith from the ones who aint. Your arguments of christians eating venom could raise other question like why does christians die of diseases at all?

As I said, I'd raise points that prove god just as much as your proof of gravity. I did just that.

christians doing things like venom drinking aren't nessisary for others to be able to believe Christ said that the cration around us should be evidense anuf

well let all christians drink venom then, let it be a mandatory doctrine of the christian faith. If it proves god I dont see what stoping the lot from downing venom.
Oh this will be interesting to witness

Originally posted by finti
well let all christians drink venom then, let it be a mandatory doctrine of the christian faith. If it proves god I dont see what stoping the lot from downing venom.
Oh this will be interesting to witness

If it makes you happy (wich I know it will), people who drink venom (christians including) die. That's it, they all die. Those who survive survive not because the have MORE faith, but rather they understand. The reason why cant go around drinking venom and defing gravity is because that is testing God. Something Christ taught against. However you proved gravity throught the simple logic of "if you...then it" (i.e if you throw a rock in the air, than it will fall.) But you can prove God logically by thinking, "what made gravity?"

well people who doesnt believe in a god wouldn't include god in the making process of this cosmos. So logical to them is actually to exclude god(s) in their way of thinking

guess you failed to see my real meaning behind what I wrote. If drinking venom was to prove god christians all over would do it, but they dont and we all know why they dont do it too (well most of us know why) So what I wrote was in a mockery way to a not too well thought out example.

oh and on the fact that people would die from drinking venom (christians included) does not make me happy at all

Hmmm, I think that comparing god to gravity, is a little bit nuts, cause well you'll be hard pushed to find someone who has any physics knowledge to dispute it. And if god does exist you'll get a rather pissed Issac Newton givin u a kicking in heaven or hell! lol.
Finti, i think your saying that they're not stupid, they might have faith, but not willing to test it to such lengths.

Originally posted by finti
oh and on the fact that people would die from drinking venom (christians included) does not make me happy at all

Than don't convey the thought. Btw what is your religion finti?

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Than don't convey the thought. Btw what is your religion finti?


god

Glad to see it doesn't make him happy....that'd be terrible for ANYONE. So none of you have heard of the christian snake people hm? Because, no....they don't die...I think it's been on rare occasion due to lack of faith. Not lack of faith that god exists, but lack of faith that he won't let you die. I don't believe this is testing god because it seems this is a christians way of trying to show others gods power...yet, OFCOURSE people reject it. No one said it'd be easy I guess...either way, comparing it to gravity, while the two have nothing in common, make perfect sense really, I'm sure a Bible scholar christian might have a few more things to say on the subject of god as well right? No one here I don't believe, is an ABSOLUTE pro about either of the two. Correct?

I've heard about the snake people, and some do die...Also there are other religions that walk on hot coals and don't get burned. God protected them too, I guess. But they call God by another name..God is God...

God loves all people, true. But...if I'm correct, I believe there are techniques to such a thing as walking on hot coals as to not get burnt...or atleast not badly. Kind of like breaking bricks on the chest or lying on a bed of nails...no technique for drinking venom. Doctors can't even explain it as far as I know.

Originally posted by God Puppet
God loves all people, true. But...if I'm correct, I believe there are techniques to such a thing as walking on hot coals as to not get burnt...or atleast not badly. Kind of like breaking bricks on the chest or lying on a bed of nails...no technique for drinking venom. Doctors can't even explain it as far as I know.

An individual can develop an immunity to any poison if he is subjected to small doses of it over time. This is a practice the Central Intelligence Agency uses to immunize agents against poisons.

These people aren't taking small doses pal, not from what I've seen. Besides, most christians you'll notice are normal everyday people until you see them in a church. (Where they may often act out) So, I doubt they have time to practice CIA tricks...but who knows, the thought in itself about the CIA thing seems interesting anyway. Clever really...

I don't think they're CIA tricks, as the CIA didn't think up the process. It is a practice that started in the middle ages. Popes and other men of great power began this practice. If these folks want to go out in the wild and find some animals that roam free and get bitten. These animals are under their control. They can operate on them to remove poison glands, as well as milk them for venom over long periods of time before they "go on stage" and get bitten by them.

none ...........................besides I see my self as god oh yeas I heard of them, a congregation in Tennessee uses them frequently and some actually do die, like snake handelers they kind of develop a remedy for the poision, like they are immune to the poison. It happens to snakehandlers so why shouldnt that happens to christian worshipers as well,,, ohh and Hopi indians used snakes in their dances and had snake priests

Hmm, question for anyone who wishes to answer..... me and my girlfriend are both perfectly nice ppl,both working hard at uni, yet being 18 and 19, have had sex together, why condemn us to hell because we've had sex? I don't see why any religon has problems with couples in our position.
Mind u, i'd be quite intrested to see what religon's answers are to this...

and what position was that actually .....missionary sorry I couldn't resist it,............ I fell for the temptation <= did I just sin?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Then why did Jesus say..."Why do you call me good, ONLY one is good and that is God." He is stating He is not God.
I would presume that Jesus did this because people looked at him as a person, a magician who worked miracles; they did not see God in him.

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
Hmm, question for anyone who wishes to answer..... me and my girlfriend are both perfectly nice ppl,both working hard at uni, yet being 18 and 19, have had sex together, why condemn us to hell because we've had sex? I don't see why any religon has problems with couples in our position.
Mind u, i'd be quite intrested to see what religon's answers are to this...
Double post, naughty.

You aren't condemned to hell for having sex; people who do such things are wrong, for they act as though sins are unforgiveable.

You're condemned to hell for not asking to be written in the Book of Life.

lol nah it was the spoon..... lol what a name for a position. Anyhoo....
Well, it just seems to me that christianity is a little bit ah you stepped outta line, up yours. Like if you've sinned you've got a one way ticket to hell, this isn't from the teachings i've read, its from the ppl that follow it, i found this link on another thread, which is just extremist morons, but extremist christian morons none the less.....

http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html

Originally posted by Jedi_KnightAlly
Hmm, question for anyone who wishes to answer..... me and my girlfriend are both perfectly nice ppl,both working hard at uni, yet being 18 and 19, have had sex together, why condemn us to hell because we've had sex? I don't see why any religon has problems with couples in our position.
Mind u, i'd be quite intrested to see what religon's answers are to this...

I'm replying according to my religon, so no one attack me please. Umm...anyway, I think there are several reasons, logical and spiritual. Ok, here're the reasons listed:

1: Having sex before marriage increases the chance of catching aids since you're more likely to break up than get divorced.
2: Sex or "making love" can be thought up as a sacred act of "joining" two souls and should only be preformed with one person, since then, you and they are "joined" in a manner of speaking.
3: Sex carries responsibility, but after marriage, you've already accepted responsibility.
4: Such an organized manner of marriage before sex, helps to seperate us from animals. (Excluding doves)
5: God said so (you're not supposed to question the lord)
All of these can be good reasons, because most religous morals HAVE logical purpose. There's a few other reasons. I think I heard some where that people who wait till marriage are more likely to enjoy sex with their spouse, as well as have a healthier relationship. Besides, if your 18, why not just get married? I mean, atleast in my religion it's better to get married than fall to the temptation of pre-marital sex.

BTW, the way you explain your age isn't exactly fair, plenty of people DO wait till marriage, religous or not. Also, unfortunately, many people have had sex long before that....oh wait, maybe that's what you meant, either way, that's an unfair accusation. But, I don't think you meant anything by it.

lol no no, my point was we're legallally able to do it lol

just so ppl don't say well mebby ur too young or creatin any misconceptions of any kind, just u know what sorta stuff's on the internet and how ppl can react to certaiin things that've been said i was just making ppl knew basically adults

Originally posted by God Puppet
I'm replying according to my religon, so no one attack me please. Umm...anyway, I think there are several reasons, logical and spiritual. Ok, here're the reasons listed:

1: Having sex before marriage increases the chance of catching aids since you're more likely to break up than get divorced.
2: Sex or "making love" can be thought up as a sacred act of "joining" two souls and should only be preformed with one person, since then, you and they are "joined" in a manner of speaking.
3: Sex carries responsibility, but after marriage, you've already accepted responsibility.
4: Such an organized manner of marriage before sex, helps to seperate us from animals. (Excluding doves)
5: God said so (you're not supposed to question the lord)
All of these can be good reasons, because most religous morals HAVE logical purpose. There's a few other reasons. I think I heard some where that people who wait till marriage are more likely to enjoy sex with their spouse, as well as have a healthier relationship. Besides, if your 18, why not just get married? I mean, atleast in my religion it's better to get married than fall to the temptation of pre-marital sex.

BTW, the way you explain your age isn't exactly fair, plenty of people DO wait till marriage, religous or not. Also, unfortunately, many people have had sex long before that....oh wait, maybe that's what you meant, either way, that's an unfair accusation. But, I don't think you meant anything by it.


I have to say..those are some good reason.

Originally posted by God Puppet
I'm replying according to my religon, so no one attack me please.

<-----Sit's on his hands.



Originally posted by debbiejo
I have to say..those are some good reason.

you didn't ask not to be attacked! Does that mean I can pummel you?

^ You wouldn't do that would you???

cry

I'm always open for a conversation though.

Originally posted by debbiejo
^ You wouldn't do that would you???

cry

I'm always open for a conversation though.

No, you're sweet. Even if I think you're way off target most of the time.

Hmmm i wld have to say from my situation alone.....

1) We've got a strong enough bond to get married, we've already unofficially said we'll do it once we graduate, stupid to do it while a student
2) As for the aids thing, well we're both only going to ever have sex with each other, so thats out the window.
3) for the responsibility part, i have no answer as i can't think of a good one lol
4) You shouldn't question the lord.... but if u don't question things u'll never learn. Thats a very darkages view to have.

Well, it would be pretty boring if we all agreed, now wouldn't it. I'm always more patient with the opposite sex.