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You know I was noticing allot of people in their teens and in their early adult years sound like mouth pieces for extreme liberal ideas. I am 23 myself and my age group counts as well in this. It just seems to me like i have this impression they are regurgitating these ideas and maybe not thinking about it. I am not persay against being a liberal, but i have just noticed allot of people, in this age group especially, that just seem like liberal clones that have been given a certain point of view and they just pick it up and run with it.
It almost reminds me if someone watched Micheal Moore movies and memorized them all and then read allot of liberal books without putting their thinking caps on and then just turned around and started spewing the information they just obtained at anybody that crosses them.
Now of course their are people on the right wing that do the same. Anyone that says "Liberals are unpatriotic and hate america, and the right are for smaller government!"
Thats a stupid statement as well and is made by plenty of right wingers, but i guess what i am saying especially on these threads i have noticed allot of liberal views that take the extreme stance on something with a very closed mind and allot of them seem very bitter and hatefull, allot of times directed at christians in particular.
Anyway Discuss

The same, with less fanatacism, could be said of the conservative right.

Ignorance is ageless.

Maybe it's finally the turn of the tide against all the conservative control that has gone before...

i didn't put the segment in my post about the same can apply of ignorant right wingers as well for nothing man, but i noticed more of a extreme left wing cluster in these threads.
And about the fanatacism, well it depends how fanatic the person wants to be on either side is was determines how fanatic he is, not the group in genral. There are plenty of fanatics on both sides.
I just noticed a high cluster of Left leaning fanatics on these threads thats all.
I want to emphasize as well this is nothing against anyone in particular, 95 percent of you guys i enoy posting with regardless of the politics,
I am just shocked how extreme some of you guys are when it comes to liberal politics thats all

I'm referring to the bitter and hateful part.

I would agree, in my experience, that youth tend more towards liberal politics (though there are plenty of conservatives) which isn't surprising, as liberalism, at least in theoretic, ideal form, would have to appeal due to the freedom it can seem to offer. I personally know few teens and young adults who would be excited about the things that conservative politicians stand for. At universities here the most populous political parties are always those with slogans to do with "freedom, equality and truth for all", which stage rallies and so forth against the evils of the modern world - capitalism, racism and so forth. In fact, one of my major assignments in high school society and culture had to do with a similar subject, and a survey of teachers revealed that about 80% of them had dabbled with socialist politics in Uni (even though a number were now ardent conservatives) because at the time liberal politics most suited their world view, or really, what they wanted.

To be honest, I am quiet proud to support liberalism, though I always try to avoid fanaticism. Because really, it should be about what is best, whether it is conservative or liberal.

Some people just have very extreme liberal views *shrugs*

Yeah, I'm one of those 'left-wing teens' (I'm 19). But I can guarantee you that I'm not just regurgitating stuff I've heard without thinking -- to use your examples in the first post, I've only seen 1 Michael Moore movie (Bowling for Columbine, and I didn't even see the whole thing), and haven't read ANY sort of liberal or left-wing book. Instead, I researched things that were important to me and formed my political beliefs based on that, and they happen to be very left-wing, some would say extreme.

Though I've got to say, in some other countries what people in the US consider extreme would be thought of as moderate.

I just love how we "liberal puppets" mindlessly spew regurgitated left wing propaganda. Like sexual equality, women and gay rights, separation of church and state, medical and scientific advancement, compassion and understanding.

While your regurgitated centuries old prejudiced, vile, sexist and homophobic Christian propaganda is "the word of God." Holy, divine and beyond reproach. (Hell awaits those who dare)

Now tell me who's not putting on their thinking caps?

im a conservitive im alos a 24 year old musicain i can see what you are saying about people that just seem to be beliving what they are told also i was raised as a libral and changed my mind as i got older

Riiiiiight, liberals just believe what they're told. Like Saddam had WMD's, the world was created in 6 days and women are descendent's of a mans rib.

i never said i was a christian i am very anti-christian i just t end to think conservitives could run the country better and i was not rying to start an argument

Conservatives could run the country better! You're right!
As is being currently proven.

Let's see:
We're at war. (Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, or terrorism, or WMDs)
The trade deficit is at an all time high.
The dollar is at an all time low.
Fuel prices are at an all time high.
The national debt has never risen so high during any presidency.
and on and on and on.

Conservatives sure are doing a great job running the country alright...running it into the ground.

Maybe if they spent more time trying to solve the nations major problems instead of imposing their religious beliefs into marriage and comatose patients this country wouldn't be in such a deplorable state of affairs!

There's only one thing conservatives should ever be allowed to run...a tractor! cowboy

Don't be fooled by oil prices. In this modern age of media reported propoganda, if oil prices were to drop so soon after a war in the middle east, there would be liberal papers and news agencies illustrating the fact that we went to war over oil prices.(as legitimized over oil prices dropping) As it is, the conservative propoganda machine is in control right now. They'll keep oil prices rising; not only to make a profit off of it, but to disuade the people who preach that this war is for oil and not freedom from saying "look, we went to war and the price of oil dropped!".

the conservative propoganda machine
thats a funyy tearm since the media is allmost all libral and anti conservitive

Oil wasn't really Dubya's driving force. He wanted to protect gods "chosen people" from the evil Muslims so he invaded Iraq to rid Israel of one of its many threats.

God will reward Dubya with eternal life in heaven. angel
Cant get that from oil.

Originally posted by loserib
the conservative propoganda machine
thats a funyy tearm since the media is allmost all libral and anti conservitive

Wow, can't get much further from the truth......

*goes off to try and dig up posts refuting the so-called liberal media bias*

EDIT: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=329050&highlight=liberal+media+bias

Read up.

Originally posted by Tex
I just love how we "liberal puppets" mindlessly spew regurgitated left wing propaganda. Like sexual equality, women and gay rights, separation of church and state, medical and scientific advancement, compassion and understanding.

While your regurgitated centuries old prejudiced, vile, sexist and homophobic Christian propaganda is "the word of God." Holy, divine and beyond reproach. (Hell awaits those who dare)

Now tell me who's not putting on their thinking caps?

Im a liberal puppet

no but seriously I dont just read something and "run" with it... I only protest against things that I think are NOT right, mainly homosexual rights and racism, yes I hate bush, but I'm able to live with the fact that he is president, and until another 5 years he's going to still be president...

do you even watch the news it all onesided and not just the news music telivison movies its actully hard to even by a conservitve in music everytime someone finds out they flip and are like your evil and ignorent
i dont think they are ignorent just cuse we dont believe the same thing if we all belived the same things and treated evryone excatly the same we would be clones

The news is generally moderate or has conservative leanings. Maybe your local newscasts are more liberal, but the majority are not.

I totally couldn't understand the rest of your post because of no punctuation.

same here

well theres a good way to dismiss my piont here

do you even watch the news it all onesided and not just the news music telivison movies. its actully hard to even be a conservitve in music everytime someone finds out they flip and are like your evil and ignorent.
i dont think they are ignorent just becuese we dont believe the same thing if we all belived the same things and treated every one excatly the same way we would be clones.

Originally posted by loserib
well theres a good way to dismiss my piont here

do you even watch the news it all onesided and not just the news music telivison movies. its actully hard to even be a conservitve in music everytime someone finds out they flip and are like your evil and ignorent.
i dont think they are ignorent just becuese we dont believe the same thing if we all belived the same things and treated every one excatly the same way we would be clones.

I did not dismiss your point, I couldn't understand what you were trying to say.

Yes, I do watch the news. Most of the news that is shown on TV is the US has a very definite conservative slant.

Music television movies have to be the most irrelevant thing I've ever seen, however someone wants to make their movie is their decision. Movies are made for entertainment, the news is made to inform, therefore in my opinion, the news SHOULD be moderate and not have a liberal or conservative bias.

Yes, it is true that poltics is a big part of music and a lot of it IS liberal....but I have never heard of any musicians being jumped on and called ignorant because they hold conservative beliefs. If you're going to make a statement like that, kindly back it up with some evidence.

And one reason conservatives are so widely disliked is because of the far-right bible-thumpers that believe EVERYTHING should go according to what is in the bible -- like Bush likes to think, despite the fact that this is totally against the constitution.

Originally posted by loserib
well theres a good way to dismiss my piont here

do you even watch the news it all onesided and not just the news music telivison movies. its actully hard to even be a conservitve in music everytime someone finds out they flip and are like your evil and ignorent.
i dont think they are ignorent just becuese we dont believe the same thing if we all belived the same things and treated every one excatly the same way we would be clones.

uve got bit of a paranoia prob there mate

and it goes both ways... in fact most liberals dont judge ppl as much as conservatives.... say lets say in one conservative family a boy goes to his dad and says "Dad I'm a liberal and I'm gay"
then think of a liberal family and a boy goes to his dad and says "dad I'ma conservative and I'm joining a red-neck group"
conservatives are the past, times have changed, and so should people

i watch the news every day most of the day it pisses everyone i know off. most of the reports all seem to be very anti-conservitve to me even when he won they were all scrachtng there heads wondring how.
and i dont see how movies telivison and music is irelivent since most people tend to watch and belive what there favorite actor or pop star belives.
what i saying about music is all from personal experince. i have been told these things from promoters and other bands some of them wont even book us becuese of the way i feel.also every politcal group has fanatics .

Originally posted by loserib
i watch the news every day most of the day it pisses everyone i know off. most of the reports all seem to be very anti-conservitve to me even when he won they were all scrachtng there heads wondring how.
and i dont see how movies telivison and music is irelivent since most people tend to watch and belive what there favorite actor or pop star belives.
what i saying about music is all from personal experince. i have been told these things from promoters and other bands some of them wont even book us becuese of the way i feel.also every politcal group has fanatics .

anti-conservative? boy u REALLY have a paranoia problem... havent u ever watched CNN? rare time they talk about the liberals as if they were the right "wing"

Those people need to learn to think for themselves.



Very true. But which group happens to be more vocal in the US? The conservatives. After all, they're the ones that want to ban abortion, gay marriage, and such things simply because the bible says these things are sins. Liberals saying that abortion and gay marriage should be legal is not pushing beliefs on anyone, only stating that they think these things should be left as a personal decision. A conservative saying that they SHOULD be illegal is directly trying to force their beliefs by saying that since THEY think these things are wrong, they should be banned.

Anyway, it's quite late and I'm out.

watch it all the time

Originally posted by IceWithin
anti-conservative? boy u REALLY have a paranoia problem... havent u ever watched CNN? rare time they talk about the liberals as if they were the right "wing"

Fox News is the worst.......

Originally posted by Lana
Fox News is the worst.......

"Fox News" is an oxymoron.

i dont watch fox news... Im not sure if I even have fox

They both are vocal; it's too bad most people have selective hearing.

I guess it just comes down to whichever group annoys you the least.

Originally posted by botankus
They both are vocal; it's too bad most people have selective hearing.

I guess it just comes down to whichever group annoys you the least.

So true, unfortunately people seem to feel that they have to be either liberal or conservative. I try to make up my own mind depending on the issues and how they're presented as opposed to toting the party line.

And loserib, did you even read anything in the thread that Lana pointed out to you regarding the liberal media? If you are gonna continue to harp on the "so-called" liberal media that would be the thread to do it.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
You know I was noticing allot of people in their teens and in their early adult years sound like mouth pieces for extreme liberal ideas.

You've just notice? Well, I got news for you. Liberal or conservative they always target the youth. Is an old political scheme that never fails. How can you spot them? Easy stay neutral and observed both sides react towards each other. You'll find some rather bias comments and poor arguments to justify their means. Trust me...just watch them go at it.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
"Fox News" is an oxymoron.

Too true

Originally posted by IceWithin
i dont watch fox news... Im not sure if I even have fox

Consider yourself lucky.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
So true, unfortunately people seem to feel that they have to be either liberal or conservative. I try to make up my own mind depending on the issues and how they're presented as opposed to toting the party line.

And loserib, did you even read anything in the thread that Lana pointed out to you regarding the liberal media? If you are gonna continue to harp on the "so-called" liberal media that would be the thread to do it.

Well, like I said, I don't follow any particular partyline, I have my own political beliefs, and will vote for whoever agrees more with me on issues that I feel are important, it doesn't matter what party they are.

And somehow I highly doubt he read anything in that thread....hopefully everyone else who's posting/reading this one will go and take a look, though.

Damn you all, he said nothing that people should get this worked up about.

Yeah...I watched five minutes of MSNBC. I left the room afterwards. Anyone who says there isn't liberal bias is full of it.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Yeah...I watched five minutes of MSNBC. I left the room afterwards. Anyone who says there isn't liberal bias is full of it.

As well as CNN and NBC

Yeah most kids do seem to be liberal by default. But think about it.. do you really expect the majority of teens to be conservative and for "family values" and such? In my opinion conservative views are just too up tight for most teens.

All liberals are puppets.

Originally posted by KidRock
All liberals are puppets.

You are so right. Oh, and soo smart and insightful. How do you manage to totally sum up everyones feelings in one or two words? It's so cool.

Originally posted by KidRock
All liberals are puppets.

As are conservatives.

Originally posted by loserib
i just t end to think conservitives could run the country better and i was not rying to start an argument

Let's examine this, shall we? It's no coincidence that the most fruitful times in American History have happened under a Democratic presidency. In fact, the only Republican I can think of who actually did ANYTHING fruitful was Abraham Lincoln, but he was a different kind of Republican. Here's the facts:

Every day Bush has been in office, 3,409 private sector jobs went down the drain.
Every day, 5,114 more people started working part-time, because they couldn't find a full-time job.

The last president to lose jobs over the course of his term in office was Herbert Hoover, but that was during the time of the Great Depression. Most people consider him to be the worst President in American History, but I think that's an insult to his name. At least he TRIED to put a chicken into every pot.

Republicans are endlessly saying that if we do this or that, we'll "Hurt the economy." You'd think we'd be able to trust them. After all, if there's one thing they know about, it's hurting the economy. Let's take a look at the last 14 Presidents--8 Republicans and 6 Democrats--and examine their annual rate of job growth/loss. These are all Presidents since Coolidge:

Roosevelt (1933-45) (D) +5.3
Johnson (1963-69) (D) +3.8
Carter (1977-81) (D) +3.1
Truman (1945-53) (D) +2.5
Clinton (1993-2001) (D) +2.4
Kennedy (1961-63) (D) +2.3
Nixon (1969-74) (R) +2.2
Reagan (1981-89) (R) +2.1
Coolidge (1923-29) (R) +1.1
Ford (1974-77) (R) +1.1
Eisenhower (1953-61) (R) +0.9
G. Bush (1989-93) (R) +0.6
G.W. Bush (2001-present) (R) -0.7
Hoover (1929-33) (R) -9.0

Notice anything? Every single Democrat has a better record than Any single Republican. In fact, with the exception of "Great Depression" Hoover, the Bush boys are the worst Presidents when it comes to jobs. Even more amazing is that when you combine both of them, they haven't created a single American job. Republicans can lie all they want, spin all they want, hire all the Karl Roves they want, but they cannot dispute the facts. FDR gave us the amazing New Deal, Truman the Fair Deal. Kennedy gave us the Peace Corps, Medicare, Medicaid, and expansive Social Security. LBJ gave us the much-needed civil-rights legislation. What has Dubya done for us? Actually, how much good have any Republicans done for us?

My entire family is right-wing Christian, but I'm not. Because I have a conscience. I refuse to be just another sheep. When I ask most youth today, it is my understanding that most are "Republican". Then again, I live in Texas. My problem with this is that when I ask "why?" They have no answer, or because their parents are. What kind of nation are we living in when our youth cannot think for itself? It's sickening.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
You are so right. Oh, and soo smart and insightful. How do you manage to totally sum up everyones feelings in one or two words? It's so cool.

Its a gift.

Funny how all this liberal media is owned by conservative corporations. Who would have figured?

In the thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...eral+media+bias

Plenty of people have thrown facts out and discussed the myth of the liberal media, instead of drudging it up, people can read about it there.

They need to reenact the fairness act

They need to reenact the fairness act

You said that already, what was the point of posting it again?

Originally posted by Jeff_Atello
Let's examine this, shall we? It's no coincidence that the most fruitful times in American History have happened under a Democratic presidency. In fact, the only Republican I can think of who actually did ANYTHING fruitful was Abraham Lincoln, but he was a different kind of Republican. Here's the facts:

Every day Bush has been in office, 3,409 private sector jobs went down the drain.
Every day, 5,114 more people started working part-time, because they couldn't find a full-time job.

The last president to lose jobs over the course of his term in office was Herbert Hoover, but that was during the time of the Great Depression. Most people consider him to be the worst President in American History, but I think that's an insult to his name. At least he TRIED to put a chicken into every pot.

Republicans are endlessly saying that if we do this or that, we'll "Hurt the economy." You'd think we'd be able to trust them. After all, if there's one thing they know about, it's hurting the economy. Let's take a look at the last 14 Presidents--8 Republicans and 6 Democrats--and examine their annual rate of job growth/loss. These are all Presidents since Coolidge:

Roosevelt (1933-45) (D) +5.3
Johnson (1963-69) (D) +3.8
Carter (1977-81) (D) +3.1
Truman (1945-53) (D) +2.5
Clinton (1993-2001) (D) +2.4
Kennedy (1961-63) (D) +2.3
Nixon (1969-74) (R) +2.2
Reagan (1981-89) (R) +2.1
Coolidge (1923-29) (R) +1.1
Ford (1974-77) (R) +1.1
Eisenhower (1953-61) (R) +0.9
G. Bush (1989-93) (R) +0.6
G.W. Bush (2001-present) (R) -0.7
Hoover (1929-33) (R) -9.0

Notice anything? Every single Democrat has a better record than Any single Republican. In fact, with the exception of "Great Depression" Hoover, the Bush boys are the worst Presidents when it comes to jobs. Even more amazing is that when you combine both of them, they haven't created a single American job. Republicans can lie all they want, spin all they want, hire all the Karl Roves they want, but they cannot dispute the facts. FDR gave us the amazing New Deal, Truman the Fair Deal. Kennedy gave us the Peace Corps, Medicare, Medicaid, and expansive Social Security. LBJ gave us the much-needed civil-rights legislation. What has Dubya done for us? Actually, how much good have any Republicans done for us?

My entire family is right-wing Christian, but I'm not. Because I have a conscience. I refuse to be just another sheep. When I ask most youth today, it is my understanding that most are "Republican". Then again, I live in Texas. My problem with this is that when I ask "why?" They have no answer, or because their parents are. What kind of nation are we living in when our youth cannot think for itself? It's sickening.

Stop being such a whiner; Kerry used a lot of this in his campaign, look what happened.
Instead of whining, you peoples should try winning at the ballot box instead of in the court room.
I think the most fruitful times happened around the reagan presidency.
This social security you are talking about; isn't that the one that needs reform? I think Clinton said"fix social security first." Shows how much that helped.

I'm starting to agree with George Washington original thinking on his disagreement with political parties. I am thinking that they do more harm than good in today's world.

I am thinking that Delay should be thrown out of Congress and the media should report that Attorney General Gonzales has stalled the investigation into the Valerie Plame leak.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
You know I was noticing allot of people in their teens and in their early adult years sound like mouth pieces for extreme liberal ideas. I am 23 myself and my age group counts as well in this. It just seems to me like i have this impression they are regurgitating these ideas and maybe not thinking about it. I am not persay against being a liberal, but i have just noticed allot of people, in this age group especially, that just seem like liberal clones that have been given a certain point of view and they just pick it up and run with it.
It almost reminds me if someone watched Micheal Moore movies and memorized them all and then read allot of liberal books without putting their thinking caps on and then just turned around and started spewing the information they just obtained at anybody that crosses them.
Now of course their are people on the right wing that do the same. Anyone that says "Liberals are unpatriotic and hate america, and the right are for smaller government!"
Thats a stupid statement as well and is made by plenty of right wingers, but i guess what i am saying especially on these threads i have noticed allot of liberal views that take the extreme stance on something with a very closed mind and allot of them seem very bitter and hatefull, allot of times directed at christians in particular.
Anyway Discuss

I think you sort of answered your own question there moviejunkie23,
most young people, atleast here in America and probably in Europe
as well, tend to be liberal (I guess), and most people on this sire
are young, therefore it isn't surprising that most members here will
be on the Left.

Besides, I don't think this site woyuld have been as fun if it was made
up of Freepers.

Anyway, political point of views have rarely caused much trouble
here from what I've seen


Originally posted by loserib
i watch the news every day most of the day it pisses everyone i know off. most of the reports all seem to be very anti-conservitve to me even when he won they were all scrachtng there heads wondring how.
and i dont see how movies telivison and music is irelivent since most people tend to watch and belive what there favorite actor or pop star belives.
what i saying about music is all from personal experince. i have been told these things from promoters and other bands some of them wont even book us becuese of the way i feel.also every politcal group has fanatics .

Music is music. Except for a few cases, like Dylan or Rage Against the
Machine, it rarely has a political agenda. It is true that music, like
movies, often portray a life-style that isn't very conservative, with
sex and everything, but this has less to do with "liberal values" and
more with money: sex sells.

Besides, that talentless annoying Kid Rock is conservative, isn't he?


As for the news. I agree it is often more sympathetic to certain
social beliefs that can be calles "liberal", like abortion or Affirmative
Action, but in foreign pilicy and in politics, it is firmly conservative.

It supported this war. it supported the Vietnam War until it became
apparent that it was unwinnable (that famour Walter Cronkite
moment was actually, from what I've read, a rare moment and not
the usual portrayal of that war), and they supported Reagan's
bulls*** arms build-up, not to mention his utterly humiliating and
criminal invasion of Grenada (same with Bush Sr.'s Panama operation,
and his Gulf War I).

Look at the hassel they gave Clinton over the Lewinsky Scandal,
and compare it to what this President. Hell, even Rather's report
scandal got more attention than the remaining questions about Bush
Jr.'s attendance records.


Originally posted by FeceMan
Yeah...I watched five minutes of MSNBC. I left the room afterwards. Anyone who says there isn't liberal bias is full of it.

You mean the same MSNBC that fired Phil Donahu because he was
against the war? The same one that dropopd "Buchanan & Press"
because Buchanan, despite being a stronge conservative, was an
out-spoken and eloquent opponent of not just the Iraq War, but of
America's whole provocative foreign policy and of this b.s. "War on
Terror"?

The fact of the matter is that young people are still thinking for themselves, on top of rebelling against the estabishmant. There is no right or wrong as far as they're concerned. If you've been tought to think a certain way, then; once your ready to get laid, there's a discrepancy.

Originally posted by KidRock
Its a gift.

I hope you kept the reciept.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I hope you kept the reciept.

Originally posted by Echuu
Stop being such a whiner; Kerry used a lot of this in his campaign, look what happened.
Instead of whining, you peoples should try winning at the ballot box instead of in the court room.
I think the most fruitful times happened around the reagan presidency.
This social security you are talking about; isn't that the one that needs reform? I think Clinton said"fix social security first." Shows how much that helped.

I'm starting to agree with George Washington original thinking on his disagreement with political parties. I am thinking that they do more harm than good in today's world.

I'm not whining, I'm stating the facts. Reagan didn't do anything productive. You honestly think his "Reagonomics" could have gotten us out of the depression? And his "foreign policy" could have dealt with the Cuban Missle Crisis? I think not. Anyway, Social Security is not a crisis. Anything that Bush disagrees with is a "crisis," apparently. As time goes on, there are going to be things that were unforseeable that need to be addressed. All it would take to fix Social Security is to raise it from 2.2% to 3%. That's it. A mere 80 cents. There are a number of other options out there, but this is probably the easiest one. But leave it to the Bush administration to make things as hard as possible.

The Democratic Party has not been very bright as of late. Kerry sure as hell wasn't their best choice for a candidate, but it's too late to do anything about that now. Besides, they cannot compete with the amount of money that the Bushies have. So they need a strong candidate, someone like Hillary Clinton, who can actually take on the bastards and make things better. I don't care how you feel about Hillary Clinton, she is very smart and has the drive to accomplish anything she wants.

There will always be political parties. We couldn't switch to a one-party system because then we'd be in a dictatorship, so to speak. There will always be disagrements that will lead to seperation by opinion. There is not getting out of that. I think political parties are bullshit as well, but they're here to stay. If it were possible to unite them, that'd be great. But it will never be.

You know, this COULD be a productive thread where we would be able to discuss the youth's psyche and the ability one has to mold youth into whatever we please, similar to what Watson said.

Instead, we have accomplished something scarcely above the level of what one sees at the Fires of Heaven forums.

(If you knew what I just said, you would all hang your heads in shame.)

Yeah, Liberals f*ck up the economy all right. Note that graph. It's directly from the CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET OFFICE, MY FRIEND.

Furthermore, read this: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04485sp.pdf

It's a smidgen over 1MB in size, and it's a publication by the General Accounting Office of the US. Specifically, read pages 18-19, where it's got some very nice graphs along with an explanation of the ups and downs of the graphs themselves. Oh screw it, the GAO is so liberal, you don't even want to read no stinkin' federal publication, right? So here's a copy-and-paste quote. Emphasis (bolding) mine.





Waitaminit.... so the GAO is saying that *gasp* Reagan (1981-1989) and George H.W. Bush (1989-1993) ran huge deficits and ran up massive debts through both of their administrations? But Oh, there's more! Is it saying, further, that it took a damn dirty Liberal like Clinton to bring spending under control, stimulate the economy, and shrink the debt-as-%-of-GDP ratio?

Looks like your bullshit-o-meter is broken, you're having trouble calling BS when you see it on TV. I'll give you mine, I have no trouble being able to smell it from miles away, and hence, read Google news and use my TV for gaming and movies.

Note: Down at the end of that GAO publication is a one-page section titled "Appendix III: Scope and Methodology." where they note that they did their work on the document between August '03 and June '04. I'd imagine any bias pushed by the Executive branch would abviously attempt to put it in a favorable light, would it not?

...But it's ok. I'll let you sit there and blame Clinton. Because, you know, he was so soft on terror, we got attacked by al-Qaeda all the damn time, if, by "all the damn time", I mean "once back in 1993."

...and we caught Ramzi Yousef.

Liberals are such piss-poor 'war presidents' that we got all those US soldiers killed in Kosovo and Bosnia. That is, if, by "all those US soldiers," I mean zero.

We (Allies) won in World War II, while under the administration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt (OMG, LIBERAL!!) and for the tail end of it, Harry S. Truman (OMG ANOTHER LIBERAL!!)

We invaded Korea and fought the North all the way back up to the 38th Parallel under Truman.

We were slapping the NVA and VC around in Vietnam until Nixon instituted his "Vietnamization" plan in 1969 and immediately pulled 25,000 troops out, with another 60,000 withdrawing the following year. 4 years later, in 1973, the last US troops left Vietnam. The next year, North Vietnamese forces invaded the South. Saigon was taken and Vietnam was 'united' as a single Communist state by 1976. Three cheers for not even doing a good job at "Vietnamizing" Vietnam. (the strategy in Iraq is very similar. We trained indigenous (South Vietnamese in Vietnam, Iraqi in Iraq) forces to fight for themselves, and then pulled out. Let's hear it for learning from the past!)

And, in closing, Watergate.

That graph seems to have disappeared from my post....

So here it is:

Something tells me Dubbaya isn't handling the budget too well.

-AC

Originally posted by BullitNutz
That graph seems to have disappeared from my post....

So here it is:

I remember in my econ class last year seeing that chart.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I hope you kept the reciept.

thats a good response there

give it 10/10

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I hope you kept the reciept.


bang, bang, LMFAO

fiscal conservative, social liberal. its the way to be, just ask ah-nold.

BullitNutz, that was awesome.

Originally posted by Jeff_Atello


So they need a strong candidate, someone like Hillary Clinton, who can actually take on the bastards and make things better. I don't care how you feel about Hillary Clinton, she is very smart and has the drive to accomplish anything she wants.

There will always be political parties. We couldn't switch to a one-party system because then we'd be in a dictatorship, so to speak.

In my opinion Hilary wouldn't accomplish anything. As of recently she has been moving to the middle to make it seem like she is moderate to get the votes. If she were elected she would just blow it off and not do anything she promises. She is being a flip flop just like Kerry.

Unfortunately it seems that there will always be political parties; I agree. I would be best it we went to a no party system so the people would vote out from character and stances on issues instead of political affiliation.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
You know I was noticing allot of people in their teens and in their early adult years sound like mouth pieces for extreme liberal ideas. I am 23 myself and my age group counts as well in this. It just seems to me like i have this impression they are regurgitating these ideas and maybe not thinking about it. I am not persay against being a liberal, but i have just noticed allot of people, in this age group especially, that just seem like liberal clones that have been given a certain point of view and they just pick it up and run with it.
It almost reminds me if someone watched Micheal Moore movies and memorized them all and then read allot of liberal books without putting their thinking caps on and then just turned around and started spewing the information they just obtained at anybody that crosses them.
Now of course their are people on the right wing that do the same. Anyone that says "Liberals are unpatriotic and hate america, and the right are for smaller government!"
Thats a stupid statement as well and is made by plenty of right wingers, but i guess what i am saying especially on these threads i have noticed allot of liberal views that take the extreme stance on something with a very closed mind and allot of them seem very bitter and hatefull, allot of times directed at christians in particular.
Anyway Discuss Meh, I can't speak for the rest of the forum members or young people in general. All I can say is, while others may call me a liberal, I really don't think of it that way. To say that I'm some sort of puppet or pawn being used to further someones political agenda is absurd. Speaking personally, I haven't read any of these leftist books you speak of nor do I think I'm so weak minded because of my youth that I've fallen prey to anyone's propaganda. To me, the opinions I hold are ones that you will have if you have common sense.

I mean, for example, I think that gay people should be allowed to get married. I don't understand how it's extreme at all to think that all human beings, regardless of sexual orientation, deserve a chance at love and marriage. Or, with the abortion debate. While I would probably never get one (personal reasons), I have enough sense to know that an issue like this is complex and just because I wouldn't do it doesn't mean that I have any right to take away someone elses right to choose.

So, I guess in the end the problem I have with socially conservative viewpoints is that they tend color everything in black and white. This is right, this is wrong, period. I think any reasonably intelligent person can see that this isn't the way to approach any issue.

Originally posted by Jeff_Atello
BullitNutz, that was awesome.

Thanks. I've had a good number of years of practice in debates. Applying that to forums is child's play, not to mention the power of the internet readily available, I can post graphs, quotes, etc.

Ramzi Yousef bombed the WTC in Feb. 1993.

It was 8 years and 7 months before Al-Qaeda struck again.

The Bush administration is trying to pawn themselves off as "protecting america."

I'll ask them to kindly wait for an equivalent amount of time to pass before making such lofty claims. Terrorists biding their time is not "protecting america," it's falling asleep at the wheel.

But then again, we could just look at some figures, shall we?

The worst Democratic president in the better part of the 20th century (1930-2001) still gained more jobs than the best Republican. (Source)

Since 1900, Democratic presidents have produced a 12.3 percent annual total return on the S&P 500, but Republicans only an 8 percent return. Furthermore, having a Republican Congress doesn't help the market. A Democratic Senate showed returns of 10.5 percent (versus 9.4 percent for a GOP upper chamber), and a Democratic House returned 10.9 percent versus 8.1 percent for the Republicans. Real GDP growth follows the same pattern. Since 1930 (the first year decent data is available), GDP growth was 5.4 percent for Democratic presidents and 1.6 percent for Republicans. (Source)

Yep, That'd be the Republicans, the better party for business. I'd assume we have a Pro-life crowd on the boards, let's break some abortion statistics out, shall we? Okay, and here we are (Emphasis Mine):


(Source)

Oh screw it, there's way too much to be put in one post. Here's 100 Facts and One Opinion.

Bump.

or did I kill this thread by completely ending any shadow of an argument?

Bump. Yeah, I did. I killed the shit out of this thread.

Don't feel guilty.

Well, if you look at the last worthwhile post I made, (Here.)
I think you might agree I was a little too harsh on the kids.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
You know I was noticing allot of people in their teens and in their early adult years sound like mouth pieces for extreme liberal ideas. I am 23 myself and my age group counts as well in this. It just seems to me like i have this impression they are regurgitating these ideas and maybe not thinking about it. I am not persay against being a liberal, but i have just noticed allot of people, in this age group especially, that just seem like liberal clones that have been given a certain point of view and they just pick it up and run with it.
It almost reminds me if someone watched Micheal Moore movies and memorized them all and then read allot of liberal books without putting their thinking caps on and then just turned around and started spewing the information they just obtained at anybody that crosses them.
Now of course their are people on the right wing that do the same. Anyone that says "Liberals are unpatriotic and hate america, and the right are for smaller government!"
Thats a stupid statement as well and is made by plenty of right wingers, but i guess what i am saying especially on these threads i have noticed allot of liberal views that take the extreme stance on something with a very closed mind and allot of them seem very bitter and hatefull, allot of times directed at christians in particular.
Anyway Discuss

I am a Republican to the end and I think that the liberals are unpatriotic and hate america for different reasons.They like to change stuff that been in america for years.
And I think that they should stop while they are ahead.JM

Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
I am a Republican to the end and I think that the liberals are unpatriotic and hate america for different reasons.They like to change stuff that been in america for years.
And I think that they should stop while they are ahead.JM

After all the arguments and debates posted here JM, you are going to have to do better than that.

Why are you a republican? What policies do you agree with and why? Describe instances of liberals being unpatriotic and examples of why liberals hate america. America is continually changing, every country is, to grow stagnant is to die.

Your post was an uninformed joke spoken as though you were just being a mouthpiece to what you have heard your parents or people on T.V. say. I await your response, but expect none.

Jackie Malfoy is secretly Ann Coulter. I bet she gets all hot and bothered when she trolls threads like this.

Originally posted by BullitNutz
Jackie Malfoy is secretly Ann Coulter. I bet she gets all hot and bothered when she trolls threads like this.

True, Ann Coulter and JM seem to have the same rapier wit and grasp of reality.

Must not laugh...

omfg

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I hope you kept the reciept.

that has got to be the greatest comeback ever!!!!
*writes it down* consider it stolen

Ann Coulter. That's great.

JM, how can you not understand that change is necessary? If we just left everything alone and "preserved the status quo," as Republicans are always preaching, we would never get anywhere. As it is, we're a country that's too scared to do anything but build bombs. We have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the entire planet. We have more of them than any other country. In fact, if you add up the 19 countries below us who are making them as well, we still have more than them. Tell me why this is necessary, because I don't get it. I feel that money should be spent on education and health care. To me, that's just common sense. What happened to "promote the general welfare?"

Originally posted by KharmaDog
After all the arguments and debates posted here JM, you are going to have to do better than that.

Why are you a republican? What policies do you agree with and why? Describe instances of liberals being unpatriotic and examples of why liberals hate america. America is continually changing, every country is, to grow stagnant is to die.

Your post was an uninformed joke spoken as though you were just being a mouthpiece to what you have heard your parents or people on T.V. say. I await your response, but expect none.

Amen

besides i thought JM was British ; i may have been wrong.

Both sides have their set of puppets. No -one is the comlete rightous. Before elections we get inundated with promises (which sometimes require difficult amendments to keep). The puppets working for their respective parties do so with the knowledge that they may obtain a favour and a request granted in exchange. Few of these are idealists which work for the benefit that they truly believe in. Makes me wonder how many selfless puppets there are out there

We want to have our commodities HERE AND NOW no matter what politivcal party one is going for. If Party A suites my wishes 8/10 rather than Party B , which if elected suites my wishes 4/10, then I will vote for Party A. So few are those with a humble ideal as living with the Maximum of the Minimum.

Originally posted by GCG
Amen

besides i thought JM was British ; i may have been wrong.



It's okay, she isn't sure either.

LOL ; i believe she is also from Italian Descent.......a country that shifts Govt. every 6 months !

In't Berlusconi resigning or something?

He resigned and is back in power LOL !

He is back in power after being forced to resign last week with a cabinet that looks very much like the former one. Later this week he faces a vote of confidence......looks like a bleak future

ahh, I see. What are the analysts predicting abotu the vote? Will he stay as PM?

dunno about the analysts ; but from his speech at the 'Camera dei Deputati' Berlusconi is promising:

To Susutain the Italian Families by Tax Cuts and reduction in cost of living

More attention to the South

And the total eradication of Irap (which is a sort of Value Added Tax that effects the Industry)

Members of the Cabinet arent too impressed. Comments where:
' A good Speech' by Fini,
' I'll Comment tommorrow' Fellini limited himslef to saying

However it is to be noticed that the members of the opposition stood up at the end of Berlusconi's speech applauding and requesting for the 'bis' , obviosly taking the piss out of his reforms...

Ahh. I see. I wish our politicians were more objective. They'd just prattle on about stupid little nuances like the president's personal life and faith and hidden meaning in speeches. They can't seem to comment on policy alone. Instead they just level partisan attacks at each other, for the most part.

well Berlusconi has been in the line of fire for a long time. Milan prosecutors have asked a judge to put him on trial again for alleged corruption at broadcaster Mediaset (His family business).

He has stood trial for graft on at least 7 previous occasions but never got a definite guilty verdict

The Governments room for manouvere is limited by a strained budget . Italy is to rvise down its 2005 growth forecast to 1.2% , from the current 2.1%, pushing its deficit past the EU's 3% of GDP limit.

which means the EU is going to bail them out, force dissolution of the government, or what?

No ; Those are not the terms they use....to harsh and undiplomatic !

They call it Negotiaitions. The Commisssion takes the neccesary steps along the lines of the SEC 2003 - 489 Document ...in a nutshell they may apply pressure on the Berlusconian ways. However there are are still anothe 5 years to go to meet the deadline as by 2010 all members states must be in-line of the 3% objective.

The problem here rises when there isnt enough reasearch put into the matter. I wonder how much in advance do their respective prediction branches spread out !

Originally posted by GCG
No ; Those are not the terms they use....to harsh and undiplomatic !

They call it Negotiaitions. The Commisssion takes the neccesary steps along the lines of the SEC 2003 - 489 Document ...in a nutshell they may apply pressure on the Berlusconian ways. However there are are still anothe 5 years to go to meet the deadline as by 2010 all members states must be in-line of the 3% objective.

The problem here rises when there isnt enough reasearch put into the matter. I wonder how much in advance do their respective prediction branches spread out !


Ahhh, I see. So they pretty much heavily suggest that Berlusconi (or anyone not meeting said criteria, of course after the 3% legislation goes in to effect) fix things.

But if states aren't meeting the objective, do they ultimately revoke their charter in the EU or dissolve the government of the country or something?

im not too sure Bullnutz ; i dont even know why i am delving into Italo-EU relations...but i was reading that in 2002 Italy were taken to EU court for failing to abide to a target that had been set.

They were fined ; so i am assuming that the ' membri della camera' will apply pressure on the Govt. in case in should happen again.

I also read that when Italy made their forecasts, they didnt predict all and most possibilities of the factors they would have influenced, hence the plan became a big flop.

Through the pages of google i lost that website ; if you gimmie some time i will find it and link it as i never clear my history and have a huge history to sewarch for.

sorry i cant give you as concise answer

Originally posted by KharmaDog
I await your response, but expect none.
At least not one that makes any sense.

It is a fact that fox news is much more biased then CNN and all other news networks. CNN has somewhat more fair opinions then FOX. FOX is as biased as the state controlled channel of the soviet union. This is my opinion from sitting in Canada watching Fox and Ann coulter and o'riley make me so mad!!!! I hope they don't have a child!!

Anyways Kids are mostly socially Liberal however its sort of half half on economy. IN Canada there is A new Democratic Party which is the Party with a platform which would drive the country billion in debt. However many teens support them, even though it be called the communist Party in the USA.

JM ure last post has been one of ure stupidest posts... ever...
if liberlals hate america they would leave and live in another place, but no they stay in the states and try to change the country for good, I think that's far more patriotic than simply "go with the flow"

who is this Ann Coultier ? ?

coulter, coultier maybe the french name for her. If she is a her!

Originally posted by GCG
who is this Ann Coultier ? ?

http://www.anncoulter.org/
a VERY dumb woman

she thinks that the best way to solve world problems is to kill of the leaders of every Muslim country and forcibley convert the people to christianity.
Also that the democratic party is another example of the "failure of the Jewish race"

OUTRAGEOUS !

She doesnt even have the mental capacity to forcecast questions and prepare a possible reply !

Damn she should do her homework properly before going for politics

Originally posted by IceWithin
http://www.anncoulter.org/
a VERY dumb woman

She's kinda hot, at least

Put a bag over her head and a sock in her mouth and she could be a standable woman, plus I could nail her this way. Go me.

Go for her Backfire ; she swallows pretty much everything you feed her

I like this one

Originally posted by GCG
Go for her Backfire ; she swallows pretty much everything you feed her

Swallowing eh? Another plus, though it will be hard to get it done with a paper bag over here head....but I'm sure I'll figure something out.

IIRC, it's not hard to punch a hole in a paper bag with your wang.... even if you know Ann Coulter's on the other side of the paper.

Originally posted by BackFire
She's kinda hot, at least

Put a bag over her head and a sock in her mouth and she could be a standable woman, plus I could nail her this way. Go me.

i dont think she's hot she kinda looks like my mom...

Originally posted by IceWithin
i dont think she's hot she kinda looks like my mom...

Then your mom needs to cut back on the heroin and eat more food.

She's not attractive at all.

she is scary and actually damaging the president and the Republicans imo. I was supporting of Conservatism in 2000, but now thanks to her and bill o'riley and many other idiots of sorts, i am never ever supporting a conservative based party!

Originally posted by manny321
she is scary and actually damaging the president and the Republicans imo. I was supporting of Conservatism in 2000, but now thanks to her and bill o'riley and many other idiots of sorts, i am never ever supporting a conservative based party!
Some Democrats have said the same thing about Michael Moore...there's probably some truth to both of those.

Originally posted by BullitNutz
Then your mom needs to cut back on the heroin and eat more food.

hey shut up