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i know that there are a lot of people that THINK (for some reason) that Windu is better the Yoda. I dont really see how...

force abilities, its quite obvious that Yoda is far superior. to argue that is completely stupid.

the question at hand is: is yoda a better swordsman then windu?

i dont think so. it is stated on SW.com that Dooku had beaten Windu in a duel before. now first off Dooku is a former apprentice of Yoda's, secondly its quite obvious that Dooku was gonna lose the fight with Yoda had he stayed and fought. making it logically contradictory for Dooku to be able to beat windu, and yoda able to beat dooku, but yoda not being able to beat windu.

style wise, yoda is far more unconventional, which makes him such a dangerous swordsman. although windu might be damn good, he still uses two hands and fights relatively the same as every other normal sized humanoid. yoda does not. to be able to fight against such a confusing flurry of attack is a near impossible feat (and it shows how damn good dooku really was) not to mention guys Yoda has had 800 years to perfect and train his fighting style, windu has had about 40 years, a big difference.

the ONLY thing that makes any sense at all is that windu still has his youth (in comparison to yoda) as well, windus strikes would tend to be more powerful, just because his style is based more upon powerful strikes then yoda's insane flurry of attacks. other then his youth, yoda is better then windu.

i completely agree with ya dude, but the real question is would that ever happen? well ofcourse not

and instead of just saying that to people just say, who are the only jedi left after revenge of the sith

come on its a no brainer that yoda is betta than windu, also if you watch the bonus disc on attack of the clones dvd various people do say that windu is second only to yoda, so its now proven

Yoda Is Betta Than Windu

Hmmmm, I personally think yoda is better. I don't see how ppl can argue against that, but i suppose thats what this thread is for, for ppl to argue against it lol.

Mind u, ppl do say silly things, one of the first rumours i heard about ep 3 was that padme was a sith.

lol ye i heard that one to, also stupid rumours like darth maul was the clones in episode II, silly speculations

We will all just have to wait till Episode 3 to see Mace's try fighting style againts Sidious

i started this thread cause of the "mace vs. Palps" thread where it seemd that A LOT of people thought windu was better then Yoda

yeah, i heard the clone rumour too. I've just read the "mace v palps" thread, didn't know mace had such a following. Ah well, lets put it this way, yoda survived a fight against palpatine, mace didn't lol.

yeah maybe beoc Mace got 1 of his hands chopped of my a Jedi?

ahhh, and it starts, welcome Mace fans...lol

In a lightsaber duel, Mace would defeat Yoda. For the person who said Yoda had an advantage through his distinct style, remember the Windu was the only living master of his saber form.

Was Yoda the stronger Jedi? Yes. Was he wiser? Yes. Was he more powerful in the Force? Definitely. Would Windu defeat him in a straight up duel? Of course.

in AOTC ob1 said that if anakin paid more attention to lightsaber training he would 'rival master yoda as a swordsman'. Surely this implies yoda is the best of the jedi including mace.

thats what i'm saying, but there are people who say otherwiese. just wait, they'll all be here eventually, unless...i dunno, there were lots in the "windu vs palps" thread tho...

Anakin, "...as wise as master yoda and as powerful as master windu..."

Yoda is all around better, but i think in just straight up lightsaber fighting, Mace has the edge. Im not a Mace fan boy by stretch of the imagination, but i just think Mace is a better swordsman. But theres no way possible for Mace to win in a duel of the force and sabers.

see i disagree with that, I dont think that Mace is better in just a sword fight then yoda is....

mace is powerful, but...nm, my argument was made in my original post, i dont want to type it all out again...lol

good point.

yoda could only be beaten by anakin.

but anakin is not skilled enough as of rots.

no, its definitly not anakin

Ultimately, Obi-Wan beats Anakin NOT because of greater use of the force OR better swordmanship, but rather due to his greater amount of experience as a Jedi.......and what Jedi (alive at the time of Ep.3) has more experience than Yoda???

none that's why i said only anakin could beat him but he was never skilled enough.

someone pm me with the soundtrack link!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by darth_Matt84
in AOTC ob1 said that if anakin paid more attention to lightsaber training he would 'rival master yoda as a swordsman'. Surely this implies yoda is the best of the jedi including mace.

Exactly. As we all know your abilities with a lightsaber isn't the only thing that measures how powerful you are. But still I believe Yoda is overall better then windu in every catagory and that includes fighting with a lightsaber, so its clear with wat Obi-Wan said in AOTC that Yoda is the best swordsman up until in ROTS that is where I think its Anakin who is most skilled, but again that doesn't mean Anakin can beat Yoda in ROTS, patience, wisdom, experience all play a role when you fight, thats how OBi-Wan beats Anakin.

i think mace is very close to yoda.

they both come very close to killing sidious.

well he obviously does not mean anakin, as anakin is not really considered to be the greatest....hes obviously not as powerful as yoda and obviously not as powerful as windu, and espicially not as powerful as palpatine....

in time, yes he would have been, but he diddent have the time.

think about it, Obi beats him, and although anakin is more powerful then obi, obi still wins (cause of anakins anger etc.) now if u were to put obi up against yoda or windu, hed obviously lose, quite quickly.

in ROTS yoda says to Obi " To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough, you are not."

now if anakin was THAT powerful then yoda would have said hed go fight anakin, not sidious...

i heard someone say, and i may get the figures wrong, that Sidious is approx 200% (two hundred)stronger than yoda, and before his lava bath, Anakin is approx 20%(twenty) stonger than Sidious, and that had Anakin fought Palps, Ani would have won. Even Palps tell yoda that anakin is more powerful than the both of them. I just dont think that the jedi know exactly HOW STRONG anakin actually is....but Mace finds out doesnt he. I think another part of why Anakin loses to OB1 is because he may have a Master/learner complex thats in the back of his mind, but i think that Anakin would have owned Yoda....using your logic, Yoda couldnt beat Dooku, but Anakin does with realative ease....put 2 and 2 together and you get 4......well, most of the time....

yeah but we're talking about RAW power!

RAW POWER

anakin
yoda
sidious
mace
obi

SKILL

yoda
mace
sidious
obi
anakin

anakin is the most powerful but the least skilled.
that's why he can be the best and still lose.

ACTUALLY.... palps says

"You will not stop me. Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us."

he WILL be more powerful, not he IS more powerful

yeah i didnt read the entire thing cause i didnt want to be totally spoiled, lol. but in the illustrated i thought it said it a little differently...ill go back and read it again.

yea that was a spoiler btw...lol

Jeditraitor your list is a suprise to me theres no way Sidious is 3rd on the list in skills and raw power, he is diff. 1 on both if Yoda couldn't beat him then no one could stop him, except Anakin but we all know what happens to him

i agree, palps is # 1 in everything with yoda behind him and windu behind yoda

Anakin / Vader rulz

thats the end of that :P

lol

link to trailer

http://pdl.stream.aol.com/aol/us/moviefone/movies/2004/lucasfilm/hyperspace/rednalob_480_r_dl.mov

PS VADER RULZ ALL!

Obi-Wan defeated Anakin because he knew of his weaknesses and Anakin hadn't yet fully gained control over his dark powers. I agree that Yoda, Mace, Sidious and Obi-Wan all have their skills more refined, but Anakin is more powerful than all of them.
Yoda, Mace, or Sidious would lose to Anakin in ROTS. Obi-Wan only won because like I said, he knew of Anakin's weaknesses. Like using his mother, or padme. (I'm assuming Obi-Wan finally eggs him on to cause him to screw up)
Obi-Wan is the only one that could defeat Anakin because of
A. The setting of the duel
B. His knowledge of Anakin's faults
C. His incredible skills
D. "Luck"

lol! anakin would lose to Sidious, Yoda, and Windu...if hes beatin by Obi wan then those 3 could easily take him out.

and i may point out that this is not a "is anakin the strongest thread" its whether Yoda is better then Windu.

people! if mace had a little help he could have beaten sidious!

and yoda flees because he knows he needs to survive. in the script PUNK-ASS SIDIOUS tries to RUN AWAY from yoda!

anakin is the most powerful then yoda or maybe a tie between yoda and sidious.

as for skill maybe yoda and sidious tie with mace a close second.

Mace is second to yoda ...ahh nevermind...Somebody just email Lucas and ask him...lol

i agree with this 100%, other then anakin being the most powerful. we first must define what "power" actually is. its pretty obvious that sids and yoda (and windu for that matter) have a far greater control of the force then anakin does. so anakin MIGHT be able to feel the will of the force easier, but does ablility or greater natural intuition of the force count as being "more powerful"?

what i mean is that yoda and windu and palpatine are stronger with the force then anakin is meaning that they have more abilities. anakin has the most power, meaning that say he knew how to use lightning, it would be insanely strong. he unfortunately does not know how. palps however does know how, making him, in a fight, technically stronger then anakin..u know what i mean.

the thing that everybody forget is that a jedi not only fight with his saber , but with his mind, his intelligence , so this topic is useless ...
The greater swordman will definitively looses against a good jedi (good as swordmaster , and wise)
The question is " why palps defeats yoda " simply because of Palps is a big cheater ( Kyber Crystal) and the way of the darkside is more easy to get in and to control ... even if a jedi as old as yoda (the most experienced jedi ever ) is in front of him ...
just like odan urr in front of exar kun

Mace is better. Think of it this way. If Mace didnt use the best form then he would change forms. Also, he was the co-leader of the Jedi. Equal to Yoda in rank. Atleast I think that I read that somewhere.

Knowledge, experience and training are the keys. Who has the most of all three? Who knows. Lets try this after ROTS.

Yado would own Windu because he can fly and Windu gets killed by Anikan so he is weak.

It's already been declared somewhere on the Star Wars site that Mace was defeated at one point in time by only two people, Dooku and Yoda. Thus, Yoda is his superior. Yoda is among the most capable duellists in the movies and has an amazing control of the Force and wisdom to implement it.

But to give Mace credit where it is do, he comes closer to destroying Sidious than anyone else in saber combat. That has to count for something.

Yoda.

Not only is Yoda the clear master of the force, but it is also implied that he is also the greatest sword fighter, when Obi wan is talking to anakin about his arrogance about actually rivaling master yoda's sword fighting skills. If Windu was the best swordfighter, he would have referenced him instead.

Yoda is clearly better then Windu in every way. Windu is good, but yoda would beat him. Yoda would have beat dooku had he not fled, and yoda, despite his incredibly old age at the time of the fight, he would have beat palpy too had he not cheated.

Windu whooped palps azz and Yoda got his azz whooped by palps ,, you do the math.

Well, your math is messed up a bit for 2 reasons:

1) Palpy lets windu get the better of him on purpose, to allow Anikin to step in and kill him, making the final transition to the dark side. In actual fact, I think DS is stronger then windu and could have beat him at any time if that's what he really wanted.

2) Yoda was beating palpy until he started fighting dirty, which yoda is incapable of doing. In a straight up fight, yoda would mop the floor with him.

Yoda > Windu

Originally posted by Vanquish
Well, your math is messed up a bit for 2 reasons:

1) Palpy lets windu get the better of him on purpose, to allow Anikin to step in and kill him, making the final transition to the dark side. In actual fact, I think DS is stronger then windu and could have beat him at any time if that's what he really wanted.

2) Yoda was beating palpy until he started fighting dirty, which yoda is incapable of doing. In a straight up fight, yoda would mop the floor with him.

Yoda > Windu your wrong on the 1st point I read the book and it has no mention of this only sidious losing to windu badly.

2nd thats what sith do,, Windu counterd his dirty tricks with his own.

Did you even read the book?

again, by implication the movie flat out says that yoda is the best. If he wasen't, then when obi wan was talking to anikin, he would have said that he thinks he rivals mace windu in sword fighting. He doesn't, he says Yoda. That clearly implies that yoda is the man.

Originally posted by Vanquish
Not to mention, by implication the movie flat out says that yoda is the best. If he wasen't, then when obi wan was talking to anikin, he would have said that he thinks he rivals mace windu in sword fighting. He doesn't, he says Yoda. That clearly implies that yoda is the man. Yes but that was in ep 2 b4 the clone wars and b4 Windu perfected his fighting style of Vaapad, its the best fighting style and he proves it in ep 3 by using it to defeat sidious.

Vaapad uses the darkside of the force, thats why its the most powerful and thats why sidious lost.

Well, valid points. Also, yoda's age definitely comes into the picture. He fights palpy at approx 780, and dies of natural causes at about 800. A man fighting when he is so damn close to death is quite impressive on it's own.

You may be right about windu being able to defeat yoda at the time of ROTS (I still say yoda's knowledge of the force would prevail) but my star wars universe will collapse if Yoda isn't the best Jedi. Surely in his prime, nobody was his equal.

Originally posted by Vanquish
Well, valid points. Also, yoda's age definitely comes into the picture. He fights palpy at approx 780, and dies of natural causes at about 800. A man fighting when he is so damn close to death is quite impressive on it's own.

You may be right about windu being able to defeat yoda at the time of ROTS (I still say yoda's knowledge of the force would prevail) but my star wars universe will collapse if Yoda isn't the best Jedi. Surely in his prime, nobody was his equal. I did not say windu could beat Yoda, I said he used his fighting style to defeat sidious. His fighting style would be next to useless when fighting another jedi of the lightside.

In yodas prime and now he is prob the strongest jedi, Yet Windu could be considerd stronger vs dark jedi and sith.

Well then lucky for him, the Sith are still around and revealed themselves in his lifetime. Otherwise, what is the point of him creating his fighting style to defeat the dark side? When he made it, there was no dark side.

Originally posted by Vanquish
Well then lucky for him, the Sith are still around and revealed themselves in his lifetime. Otherwise, what is the point of him creating his fighting style to defeat the dark side? When he made it, there was no dark side. Most of the people he fights with his saber have the darkside in them be it dark jedi or sith or even just bad guys.

I think only jedi and sith can have light or dark side in them. Your standard bad a$$'s don't have any knowledge or feeling of the force, and therefore would not be any more suseptable to Mace's style then any other jedi. Example: Jango is a bad a$$ and can actually kill Jedi's, but he does not have the dark side in him, because he has no connection with the force. No, only a sith would be more vulnerable to windu's style, and as I mentioned, at the time he created his fighting style, there were no sith, so why did he create it? Why does he dance so close to the dark side, for no reason?

Originally posted by Vanquish
I think only jedi and sith can have light or dark side in them. Your standard bad a$$'s don't have any knowledge or feeling of the force, and therefore would not be any more suseptable to Mace's style then any other jedi. Example: Jango is a bad a$$ and can actually kill Jedi's, but he does not have the dark side in him, because he has no connection with the force. No, only a sith would be more vulnerable to windu's style, and as I mentioned, at the time he created his fighting style, there were no sith, so why did he create it? Why does he dance so close to the dark side, for no reason? The force is in every living creature. Light and Dark

I need to read the book again but it is explained during the fight with sidious why he uses the darkside in his fighting style.

It is, but in order to actually use it to any advantage, you must have the knowledge and training to feel it. Regular people don't have that connection to it, so it's as if it's not even there really. And also, are there even any dark jedi in Windu's life span? (other then dooku)

Originally posted by Vanquish
It is, but in order to actually use it to any advantage, you must have the knowledge and training to feel it. Regular people don't have that connection to it, so it's as if it's not even there really. And also, are there even any dark jedi in Windu's life span? It feeds on the darkside and reflects it back, If some bad guy hes fighing has a hint of the darkside in him it will reflect it back. If they dont have the darkside in them then its still a badass style that would crush a none jedi.

One of the main purposes of the Jedi order is to defeat the Sith. It makes perfect sense to me that a fighting style would be created specifically for this purpose, even if it couldn't be optimally used for the greater part of his life.

And also, for the people who keep referencing Obi's comment to Ani as proof that Yoda is a better swordsman, what about Ani speaking of being "as wise as master Yoda, and as powerful as Master Windu"? In my eyes, this meant that, in combat, Windu was superior. This doesn't make him a better Jedi, as there is far more to being Jedi than fighting. If anything, it shows that Mace gains a distinct advantage through his flirtation with the dark side.

Yoda.

There really is no way of knowing, but it is cool to speculate what the power structure really is. There is always problems though. We know that windu lost to dooku a while back, but were they going all out or just sparring, and neither one of them were at their peek. Windu seems to beat palpy pretty good, but was palpy holding back to turn anakin? Yoda loses to palpy, but is he just way too old, past his prime, or distrought over the death of the younglings, or is he actually stronger? Anakin does some serious a$$ kicking in ROTS, but obi wan still beats him despite obi wan not being able to touch dooku, who anikin disposes of with ease. Windu kills Jango in about 2 seconds, but obi wan has a hell of a time with him, yet again, obi wan rises to the occasion vs anakin, who windu loses to. The movie implies that yoda is the strongest sword fighter with obi wans comment about "rivaling master yoda in sword fighting", but then contradicts again with Anakins "as powerful as windu" comment.

Many contradictions in the movies, but in opinion, here is the pecking order of who is truly the strongest.

1) Yoda
2) Palpy
3) Windu
4) Anakin
5) Obi wan

Originally posted by Vanquish
Well, your math is messed up a bit for 2 reasons:

1) Palpy lets windu get the better of him on purpose, to allow Anikin to step in and kill him, making the final transition to the dark side. In actual fact, I think DS is stronger then windu and could have beat him at any time if that's what he really wanted.

2) Yoda was beating palpy until he started fighting dirty, which yoda is incapable of doing. In a straight up fight, yoda would mop the floor with him.

Yoda > Windu

You cant say Palps does this and papls done that still you see the film but what has been stated as a fact is that Windu gets the better of Palps in a fight and is on the brink of killing him. Also to the post above Anakin doesnt kill Windu in a one on one duel he sneakily chops of his hands and besides by then windu would have been tired from fighting palps.

^^ agreed. Mace wasn't concentrated on Anakin. He was simply talking to him, trying to persuade him that he was in the right to kill Palpatine. Anakin then chopped his hand off as he went to finish the job. Not exactly a straight up duel. And as for Dooku beating mace, could someone provide a link to this evidence? Not saying I don't believe it, but I've never seen it myself.

And as a final note, Palpatine was NOT playing possum against Mace. Why would he? What if Anakin makes a split-second decision that Mace is right? Is Sidious willing to bet hundreds of years of machinations against that, when he could apparently just as easily kill everyone and rule the empire himself? No, he NEEDED Anakin, and Anakin, in turning, allowed Palpatine to survive.

Of course it is not certain whether palpy was letting windu get the better of him or not, but it just seems to point in that direction from all that I have read and seen. There are good arguments on both sides. I just think that he needed to use that as Anakins final push to the dark side, and what better time to do it? Eliminate Windu, and turn anakin at the same time. I guess I'm just one of those guys that doesn't think Windu is as powerful as others think he is. Of course he's one of the best, but to b1tch slap palpy the way he apparently does, and then have palpy beat yoda, it just doesn't add up to me. I think it was his plan to play weak, but who knows...

Originally posted by sexyking
You cant say Palps does this and papls done that still you see the film but what has been stated as a fact is that Windu gets the better of Palps in a fight and is on the brink of killing him. Also to the post above Anakin doesnt kill Windu in a one on one duel he sneakily chops of his hands and besides by then windu would have been tired from fighting palps.

Actually, he would not be tired at all. If everyone is hellbent on the fact that he uses this VAPAAD technique, then read up on it a little bit. It says that the person using this form becomes like a circuit for a loop of energy. As soon as the energy comes in, it leaves....it even says about hteir deul that neither one grows tired from the deul. And i still contend that "springs to life" means he was playing Mace and anakin to get him to turn.

I have to agree with the notion that Sidious allowed Windu to beat him in order to turn Anakin...granted I have not read the book or script but from the trailer I see Sidious taking on Windu, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin at the same time. If Windu was a better swordsman, surely he'd have finished Sidious quickly while he had the advantage (Sidious being extremely outnumbered). As far as Windu's Vaapad technique being superior, I assume Sidious is fighting with ancient Sith forms, most likely drastically different from the Jedi Order's -incapacitation is preferred over kill- developed styles. Whereas Windu's form might focus on allowing the darkside to be a part of the style, Sidious IS the darkside. The restrictions the Jedi place upon aggression is a burden to their form development, IMO.

right, but im referring to the previous post that said Windu would be tired, whereas if you (not YOU inparticular, just in general) know about his style, you'd know that energy doesnt stay with him. Hence, he wouldnt get tired. Thats all im saying. But i agree with you mista.

I'll just say this one thing if Mace is better then Yoda..then Mace would be the head of Jedi Council not Yoda, I don't care how many years expierence Yoda has, Mace is 2nd to Yoda

That he is. I'm surprised this is such a heated debate. Mace clearly defers to Yoda in all things. While he is a prodigy and quite possibly more able to defeat Sith than Yoda due to his talents, Yoda's command of the Force is greater, and his wisdom a lot better. And Mace has already lost to Yoda and Dooku, as was posted on the main Star Wars site in the databank. What more do you want? I signed confession from Samuel L Jackson saying he can't beat Frank OZ?

Yoda is better he survives fighting Palpatine and Windu does not. I won't say anymore because it will spoil it for some. Yoda is more wiser and only just more powerfull. I mean did you see what he was like fighting Dooku in EP II.

Yoda didn't get snuck up on by someone he trusted either. Or is that not a factor in your mind?

Hmmm indeed that is true. yoda never really trusted Anakin nor did Windu but i supose they did'nt think that Anakin would betray them though.

Well, either way you look at it, Anakin's betrayal wasn't the first thing on Mace's mind at the time. A serious disadvatage.

Yoda has experience on his side, plus he's obviously the most skilled in the use of the force, except for Sidious that will use him to wipe the floor, Windu on the other hand possess great skills too, and an aggressive and fast combat style, but he's not at Yoda's level in the use of the force.Most people overrates Windu thanks to his duel with the Emperor, but they forget that Palpatine was holding back to cheat Anakin into join the Dark Side through aiding him in the fight with Master Windu.

Windu is the most badazz jedi that ever lived deal with it...lol

Originally posted by XX Emperor XX
I'll just say this one thing if Mace is better then Yoda..then Mace would be the head of Jedi Council not Yoda, I don't care how many years expierence Yoda has, Mace is 2nd to Yoda

What are you stating that because yoda is the head he is the strongest. If you want to place the order in terms of strenght then wouldnt that make anakin the head of the order. I think it is placed in a state of experience and knowlede not power so you cant say yoda is better than mace by that alone.

who's still alive after EpIII?

ok where has it ever said in the movies ( not EU ) that Mace could even rival Yoda let alone beat him in a duel?

It has never said anything about Mace being able to beat Yoda.

ok lets look at this AGAIN

1) its quite obvious that Yoda is the head of the jedi counsel
2) it has been said that Yoda and Dooku had beaten Windu
3) i think (given the dialogue of palpatine) that he was playing posse um with windu i mean think about it, do u REALLY think that palps would say something like "I'm too weak. Don't kill me. Please" if he was not playing around...
4) it has been said that yoda is better (despite the "as powerful as master windu line, which causes problems)
5) NO ONE can argue that windu is more powerful in the force then yoda is
6) Yoda lives, mace does not (even if anakin helped palps)
7) Yoda's age are an advantage and a disadvantage. he has more control of the force now because of his age, but his agility has probably decreased (which is crazy cause i mean look at yoda still....imagine what he was in his prime :blink

all of these factors (im sure i forgot some) pretty much say that yoda is the best...i really dont see how people can argue that windu is better. i thought it was common SW knowledge that yoda was the best (other then Palpatine)

Originally posted by Julie
who's still alive after EpIII? Yoda but only couse he tuck tailed and ran.

Originally posted by Sibry
Yoda is better he survives fighting Palpatine and Windu does not. I won't say anymore because it will spoil it for some. Yoda is more wiser and only just more powerfull. I mean did you see what he was like fighting Dooku in EP II.

Yoda survives fighting Palpatine. Mace does not survive fighting Palpatine AND Anakin. Not exactly one and the same.

And once again- if Palpatine doesn't need Anakin's help to kill Mace, then what's the point of Anakin? This is the only point in the entire trilogy where Palpatine could conceivably legitimately *need* him. If he doesn't change the outcome of the battle here, then the Sith would have risen with or without him. To keep any semblance of the theme even remotely intact, Anakin MUST be instrumental in allowing the Sith to rise again. The only way that this can be the case is if he saved Palpatine from Mace, which would require, obviously, that Mace would have killed Palpatine without Anakin's intervention.

Mace is the best at what he does. Yoda is the best at what he does. I don't see the need to put the two against one another. In the star wars community it is stated that mace considers himself a padawan compared to Yoga and yet yoga has the upmost respect for Mace. Mace would never go all out against Yoda and he would never go all out against dooku when they were friends. so we may never know who is better. However, it is clear that Mace was the only one who could have taken palpatine down. His style of fighting was born for that. Palpatine toyed with Mace and Anakin psychologically because he knew what the outcome was going to be. But he clearly beat...I repeat clearly beat palpatine in sword play. Palpatine used his dark force powers to defeat windu after anakin severed his sword on. I am no in the least bit concerned with who is the best cause without a doubt windu, and yoda's are bad mofo's. i only wonder is there a possibility that mace might have survived that fall.

Thats what im wondering if he survived...make for a really good new book for time between movies...and Mace couldnt take Yoda in duel cause his style is for battling dark side.....he needs darkness to feed his style from what Ive read.....Yoda would slice and dice him .....but Mace was best tailored to fight Palps no doubt....

Yes but i am sure he also knows a style to fight lightside jedis not that he would want too.

speaking of which wheres the list "besides SS" telling what styles each of the main jedi have mastered? Anyone know.....post or pm if you know thanks!

Well Yoda being 900 years old I would say knows most forms of lightsaber technique.

Original:
It has never said anything about Mace being able to beat Yoda.

ok lets look at this AGAIN

1) its quite obvious that Yoda is the head of the jedi counsel
2) it has been said that Yoda and Dooku had beaten Windu
3) i think (given the dialogue of palpatine) that he was playing posse um with windu i mean think about it, do u REALLY think that palps would say something like "I'm too weak. Don't kill me. Please" if he was not playing around...
4) it has been said that yoda is better (despite the "as powerful as master windu line, which causes problems)
5) NO ONE can argue that windu is more powerful in the force then yoda is
6) Yoda lives, mace does not (even if anakin helped palps)
7) Yoda's age are an advantage and a disadvantage. he has more control of the force now because of his age, but his agility has probably decreased (which is crazy cause i mean look at yoda still....imagine what he was in his prime :blink

all of these factors (im sure i forgot some) pretty much say that yoda is the best...i really dont see how people can argue that windu is better. i thought it was common SW knowledge that yoda was the best (other then Palpatine)

My response:
It has never said anything about Mace being able to beat Yoda - TRUE

ok lets look at this AGAIN

1) its quite obvious that Yoda is the head of the jedi counsel
- NOT TRUE - Mace often decides things, speaks, and then Yoda agrees
2) it has been said that Yoda and Dooku had beaten Windu
- True, but Vader beats Luke at one point, then Luke beats him...it happens, sometimes you lose to people worse than you. Heck, Ani loses to OB1.
3) i think (given the dialogue of palpatine) that he was playing posse um with windu i mean think about it, do u REALLY think that palps would say something like "I'm too weak. Don't kill me. Please" if he was not playing around... - FALSE! When Mace actually beats Palps, Ani isn't in the room - go see the movie! When Ani walks in, Palps is on the ground, lightsaber gone, and Windu above him, victorious. MACE DOESN'T ALMOST BEAT PALPS - HE BEATS HIM...he just doesn't kill him.
4) it has been said that yoda is better (despite the "as powerful as master windu line, which causes problems) - FALSE! - as you said, that line disproves the other one.
5) NO ONE can argue that windu is more powerful in the force then yoda is - That depends. Mace is not more powerful in the light side, but clearly is more powerful in his knowledge of the dark side, without being seduced by it. Mace is the only living Jedi able to use the dark side, controlling it, rather than having it control him...even Yoda doesn't try that!!!
6) Yoda lives, mace does not (even if anakin helped palps) - True, but Yoda doesn't have Ani attack him unexpectedly.
7) Yoda's age are an advantage and a disadvantage. he has more control of the force now because of his age, but his agility has probably decreased (which is crazy cause i mean look at yoda still....imagine what he was in his prime :blink) - This doesn't mean he's more powerful than Mace - Ani is yonger than most Jedi, and more powerful than all of them!

I think they are different creatures, but I gotta go with Mace on this one, but they're eve.

windu is not as powerful or a better sabre fighter than yoda

the fact that windu "defeated" palpatine was all part of palps plan to turn anakin

in short...he let windu win

Palps doesn't let Windu win, because Ani isn't there to see it when Palps falls...and he's fighting his heart out...plus, watch his face when his saber goes out the window - dude looks SCARED, and Ani isn't there yet.

its all a matter of timing...hence previously you got the force telepathy scene where anakin hears palpatine saying "if you let them kill me then padme will die" or something to that effect...he knew anakin was coming

Im gonna just say this and hope this thread ends.
'Yoda wins no competition'

This old thread? Pfft. Some things should be left to die properly.

Mace is clearly the better swordsman, and just because someone was beaten before, doesn't mean it'll happen again. Oftentmes, it's less likely as any great fighter will learn from his mistakes.

Final Analysis:

In order of strength

1) Yoda
2) Mace
3) Emperor Palpatine
4) Anakin Skywalker
5) Obi-Wan Kenobi

This is proven by this movie.

Yoda is the man. Palpatine constantly initiated his force attacks from a distance. He matched Yoda in sword play only because Yoda is a weaker sword fighter. NO ONE can defeat Yoda in Force knowledge. No one. Everyone who knew Yoda knows that the only way to have a chance with him is through a sword fight. It's proven in Attack of the Clones with the Dooku duel and now in Sith.

Mace is the strongest sword fighter. He doesn't use a lot of excess movements. To be honest, a true master doesn't need to use a lot of moves. One can be deadly enough. They know they can't play with Mace because one move might be all it takes. Fighting Yoda on the other hand requires a LOT of swordplay moves because of his flurry of attacks in battle. But Yoda is not the best swordfighter. But he is swift.

The rest doesn't need to be explained. Anakin obvious had the sword fight the whole time, but Obi taught him so there was the issue of the pupil succeeding the master, as any good pupil WILL do. I think that Obi would have eventually run out of moves. He got lucky.

Palpatine is very knowledgeable in the Force AND a decent swordfighter. But outclassed. If Yoda and Mace attacked him, he would be dead. Period. Palpatine could not even defeat Mace one on one. Mace could NOT have deflected the force bolts. He isn't centered enough to be so. He is more emotional and physical power. To be honest, Mace would have lost if he DIDN'T have his lightsaber. If it was a one on one force battle, Mace would have lost, period.

Out.

Why does everyone think Yoda could never lose a force battle? In both Episode II and Episode III, he DOES lose a force battle. Dooku and Palps can't beat him in the saber battles, so he uses the force...in two, Dooku uses it to threaten the lives of Ani and Obi by dropping that collumn on them, and in three, Palps uses it with those cool Senate pods...and clearly, in both cases, while Yoda does well, he ends up unable to handle the situation as well as either of the Sith.

Dooku used the column thing as a distraction so that he could run away from the fight. As for Sidious, Yoda could counter everything Palps threw at him, including the pods and his force lightning.

Nobody, but that doesn't mean Mace can't beat him..

I actually don't think he would, Yoda would win, because the force and force powers are always a mayor influeince in Yoda his fighting style.

And Yoda his style is great, very fast. But he makes no real attacks you saw it against Dooku and against Palps, he did not really ever attack them head on, just jump around them beating them bit by bit. Mace might be able to defeat Yoda threw Yoda his biggest weakness, he isn't as strong as Mace... Now personally I don't think it would happen, but it can.

But thats only with lightsabers no use of force powers and Yoda would use those for sure

Yoda would cut Mace at the knees...

At least I'm glad that nobody called the seven lightsaber forms a ranking system or say that windu is the best simply because he mastered the hardest form. . .

I think that palps threw the fight with Windu so that he could gain a position of power over anakin psychologically.

That last push to convince him to decide to betray the Jedi. He played on Vaderkin's weakness beautifully. "If I die so does padame."

Is this line from the novelisation? I'm curious. But I am quite convinced Sidious was outclassed by Mace. It was not from the start a plot to turn Annie farther; Sidious could have accused the Jedi of trying to murder him and usurp the Republic if he could have won the battle. But he was lightsaberless and his force powers could not overcome Mace. As for Sidious being a decent swordsman, I'm gonna chalk this up to a ridiculous observation made by someone who doesn't know the ins and outs of combat. Quite simply, Sidious' three kills were quite pathetic. Somehow he was able to simply jump over and kill a Jedi knight and a Jedi master before either could react and yet he was moving slower than Yoda? Dooku, at his slow and deliberate pace, could keep up with Yoda who was much faster and deadlier than Sidious in combat. And Kit Fisto going down in three hits was a disgrace. It wasn't even a crafty maneuver Sids pulled, just a slash and Kit was down. But after this display of unbelievable pwnage on three capable Jedi, he pretty much is served by Shaft Windu in a short time. Lightsaber is lost, powers reflected back. He's on his back, almost out the damn window. He was toast.

Now, Yoda. Yoda does a whole lot of movement in II and not a lot of striking, to be honest. I believe he was trying to overwhelm Dooku with speed and it didn't work. His Force powers are considerable, and he beats Sidious at his own game. Note that Sidious is a cowardly wuss who has to cheat and use underhanded tactics at any chance he gets. He even tried to run from Yoda. He tries to avoid fair fights because he is unsure of his ability. But Sidious was -lucky- enough to destroy Yoda's lightsaber and knock his ass down. If he hadn't he would be toasted again.

Now, I saw someone say Anakin is better than Obi-Wan. I disagree. While Dooku got the edge on Obi-Wan in sheer Force mastery (The guy is old as hell and a Jedi master gone Sith) Anakin's most impressive victory in III is the death of Dooku, which baffles me to no end since Dooku got cocky and changed his entire fighting style for the battle (Check II and compare) Obi-Wan, however, held up a solid defense to Grievous and Anakin, and I believe in saber combat he was superior to Sidious, too, though with Force mastery he could not contend.

As for Mace versus Yoda. Who do I think will win? I would think Yoda has the best chance to win with his experience and Force mastery. However, Mace Windu is perhaps the best duellist of his time. I believe he can defeat Dooku after all his experience in the Clone Wars. He certainly displays amazing prowess in Shatterpoint and in ROTS. SO Mace has a chance and a better one than most would. But Yoda is the most obvious choice.

Mr. Creshosk, sir, that avatar, I think, looks awesome as all Hell. I don't know who the guy is, but he looks cool - plus it has your name on it. It's original.

Yoda wins

Thats my girl tongue

Well I dont think Voda is stronger than Mace.. The reason ofcourse is age. Voda is real old. As you get older you get more wiser and maybe your force abilities increases but physical strength dimnishes. ace was real powerful . We know for sure He had Sidious begging under his lightsaber before that Idiot Anakin showed up. Voda found it really difficult to fight Sidious. Voda was the strongest once. But when ROTS happened Mace was the srongest. He was the council president not Voda

Yoda because windu is stated to have been on par or been a little be less than dooku who couldn't even come close to beat yoda he was overwhelmed and would have been defeated if he had not run away each time and even though windu has shatter point it is way to broad and he can only see what he expects and before u put out he fought evenly with sidious first off sidious let him win and secondly he had a huge amp since the republic he gave his life to protect from the Sith was controlled by the sith and he was fighting the prime Sith Lord so he had a huge amp while yoda was cl. In his fight with sidious and was sidious equal in lightsaber skills so take that amp away and what do you have a windu who is a tier below yoda and sidious

y u do dis? Yoda wins, we know this.

Mace was one time amped, we know this.

This was 2005 my friend.

Yoda takes 10/10 in the sabers, the Force and all-out.

I hate that Windu is said to be 'the greatest swordsman in the order' Yoda mastered Ataru even more than Obi-Wan mastered Soresu. 900 years experience and a master of all forms just like Windu. Yoda takes this

Windu is better. Yoda is better at being a failure. Failed against Dooku and failed against Sidious. Failed at stopping Luke from leaving to go face Vader before he was ready. Failure.

Yoda, obviously.

Yoda is the best Jedi Consular, Windu is the best Jedi Guardian

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
I hate that Windu is said to be 'the greatest swordsman in the order'

Nope, Yoda is.