the champion vs the silver surfer

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dominic/wolf
the champion of the univers wwith the power gem vs the silver surfer

juggernaut74
Silver Surfer already laid the smack down on his @ss in vol.3 #1.

dominic/wolf
with the power gem he could just absorb anything ss throw at him and throw it right back

The Flash
Surfer. He absorbs Champion's powers.

Cosmic Cube
Yeah right. You guys are coked up. Champ will kick Surfer's ass. Power Primordial vs Power Cosmic? No contest.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by The Flash
Surfer. He absorbs Champion's powers.

Unlike Superman, Champion doesn't use radiation. Surfer can't absorb powers, only energy.

JWangSDC
Originally posted by The Flash
Surfer. He absorbs Champion's powers.

Dumbest response ever. Surfer can't just absorb whatever he wants.

Cosmic Cube
Don't mind him. He's harboring hard feelings from the Silver Surfer vs. Superman thread.

long pig
Aw, I wanted to flame Flash first. big grin (we have agreed too much and finally...we disagreed again!)
What the hell is SS going to absorb?

Surfer's got nothing on a well written Champ w/gem. Probably w/o it as well.

Hell, if Champ decided not to h2h him, he could just blast him with primordial power from his hands.
Primordial has always been > cosmic.

SS isnt smarter, but Champ kinda goes berserk sometimes and acts stupid.
Whos faster? Champ
Stronger? Champ(punched an earth sized planet in half)
Experienced? Champ
Tougher? Champ
Better fighter? pffff
Plus no one seems to ever mention champs inter-steller star ship full of world destroying weapons.

Cosmic Cube
I'm not sure if Champ's faster, but he's infinitely more powerful, durable, and experienced. He's also got a couple hundred billion years of fighting experience over Surfer. Speed won't help Surfer here. He'll get his shiny ass handed to him.

savagerampage
Didnt champion lay the smackdown to the surfer already? in a she hulk issue? he was laying in a bed beside, gladiator, beta ray bill, and thing i think!

Cosmic Cube
Yep. 'Cept that's Drax the Destroyer, not Thing.

long pig
Champ is faster or at least as fast as SS, he can, when he wants, fly and react at 99% of lightspeed(SS imo can only travel at LS, but cant react at that speed).

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by long pig
Champ is faster or at least as fast as SS, he can, when he wants, fly and react at 99% of lightspeed(SS imo can only travel at LS, but cant react at that speed).

Actually, Surfer can fly at millions of times the speed of light, and he can think/react at that speed too. Even still, he doesn't have enough power/durability/fighting skills to beat Champ. The Power Primordial can grant him any power, (even greater-than-light speed,) so Surfer's speed isn't really an advantage at all.

Cosmic Cube
People really tend to underestimate the Power Primordial. It can grant any power, (like the Power Cosmic,) but on a far greater scale.

Basically, anything Surfer can do Champ can do better. He just uses the Power Primordial chiefly for physical fighting, hence the name Champion of the Universe.

juggernaut74
For anybody who seems to think Champion can defeat Surfer just read Silver Surver vol.3 #1. That pretty much sums it all up.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by juggernaut74
For anybody who seems to think Champion can defeat Surfer just read Silver Surver vol.3 #1. That pretty much sums it all up.

Is this Champ with or without the Gem/Power Primordial?

Wonderman
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Yeah right. You guys are coked up. Champ will kick Surfer's ass. Power Primordial vs Power Cosmic? No contest.
Like it Power Primodral wins. That's just my feeling. But didnt' Thanos start with Champ in his Infinity Quest. So Thanos has something else is all. I doubt Surfer could do it.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Is this Champ with or without the Gem/Power Primordial? You probably have the issue, just read it.

long pig
CC I want proof he cant react at LS, not calling you a liar, i just really want to know.

I know he can fly at multiples of LS but reacted? I've never seen any proof of it. I'll happily concied to being wrong if i am big grin
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3657542
yea, SS kicked his ass. -sarcasm-

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Wonderman
Like it Power Primodral wins. That's just my feeling. But didnt' Thanos start with Champ in his Infinity Quest. So Thanos has something else is all. I doubt Surfer could do it.

?

Cosmic Cube
"The communication lasts milliseconds, yet the information exchanged would take a millennium to convey."

long pig
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
People really tend to underestimate the Power Primordial. It can grant any power, (like the Power Cosmic,) but on a far greater scale.

Basically, anything Surfer can do Champ can do better. He just uses the Power Primordial chiefly for physical fighting, hence the name Champion of the Universe.
Exactly, power cosmic is derived from power primordial.
Primordial is Cosmics Daddy basically.

Champ can use his power to do weird things as well, but he is a fighter, and only likes h2h fighting...he's .the best h2h fighter in the universe.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by long pig
Exactly, power cosmic is derived from power primordial.
Primordial is Cosmics Daddy basically.

Champ can use his power to do weird things as well, but he is a fighter, and only likes h2h fighting...he's .the best h2h fighter in the universe.

Precisely.

long pig
"The communication lasts milliseconds, yet the information exchanged would take a millennium to convey."


Hmm, that just kinda says that he was given a millennium worth of knowledge in a very short ammount of time.

Doesn't really show SS physically reacting at light speed.
IMO he can travel and think at LS, just not physically react....i.e Flash blitz, punching a million times a second.

juggernaut74
Cosmic being you have alot of scans post one of the time Surfer defeated Champion.

life is cruell
did she hulk end up defeating champion?

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by life is cruell
did she hulk end up defeating champion?

Yes, after losing the first match, she defeated him in a rematch. However, in the rematch, Champion was forced by the Living Tribunal to discard the Infinity Power Gem and his Power Primordial. She Hulk had been working out for months, and she had a exponential power boost.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Cosmic being you have alot of scans post one of the time Surfer defeated Champion.

I don't have that fight Juggernaut74. I don't have any of the issues I posted, besides the Fantasitc Four/Superman crossover.

Cosmic Cube
long pig pretty much hit the nail on the head when he said the Power Primordial is like the Power Cosmic's daddy. Surfer wouldn't even be able to affect Champion using the Power Cosmic. I doubt Champion would even be remotely fazed by a full strength Power Cosmic blast. The Power Primordial begat the Power Cosmic.

juggernaut74
Isnt Galactus suppose to be older than the elders?

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by long pig
"The communication lasts milliseconds, yet the information exchanged would take a millennium to convey."


Hmm, that just kinda says that he was given a millennium worth of knowledge in a very short ammount of time.

Doesn't really show SS physically reacting at light speed.
IMO he can travel and think at LS, just not physically react....i.e Flash blitz, punching a million times a second.

Here's a better example of him reacting at greater than light speeds.

long pig
no i dont believe so, elders were around when the big bang happend.
Galactus was a "humanoid" type guy on a planet...before the big bang, planets werent around.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by long pig
no i dont believe so, elders were around when the big bang happend.
Galactus was a "humanoid" type guy on a planet...before the big bang, planets werent around. I honestly do think your wrong on that one.

long pig
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Here's a better example of him reacting at greater than light speeds.
I swear I'm not arguing for the sake of argument.

But..

It doesnt say how fast those astroids are going, even so, he is still only traveling on his board at a high speed.

My question is : Can SS h2h fight at lightspeed? i.e speed blitz Flash style.
I know he doesnt need to fight h2h and therefore its not shown him doing so, but thats why I question if he can.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by juggernaut74
Isnt Galactus suppose to be older than the elders?

Galan is from a previous universe. He is older than the Elders. When the Big Bang occurred, he bonded with the dying essence of the old universe (who had lost much of it's power to entropy,) to become Galactus. However, The Power Cosmic is a derivative of the Power Primordial, released when the Big Bang occurred. Confusing, but that's how it is.

long pig
Originally posted by juggernaut74
I honestly do think your wrong on that one.

I could possibly be, but I don't think planets like the one Galactus was born on were around before the big bang. If im wrong, then I'll admit so.

edit...i was wrong. smile

leonidas
hmm, i'm trying to remember back to those early surfer vol 2s. didn't all the elders get together to try and kill galactus? can't remember exactly what happened. anyway, i'm not sure champ's as tough as some on this thread are making out. each of the elders has their specialty and no one better screw with them in that area. champ's is hand-to-hand combat, but surf wouldn't take him that way. i'm sure champ could use the PP to combat surfer, but his mastery would not be very good. (collector tried to use his PP against the avengers after having NOT used it for a long time and got his arse totalled in a hurry!) i also believe surfer's fought and beaten other elders who also wield the PP - gardener i think, and the runner, and a couple others. and we can't forget the power cosmic is derived from galactus! the power primordial (wherever it stems from) CAN'T come from a much more powerful source. my money would be on SS - unless of course they were both thrown into a ring (which is what it looks like in that farsical issue of she hulk!)

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by long pig
I swear I'm not arguing for the sake of argument.

But..

It doesnt say how fast those astroids are going, even so, he is still only traveling on his board at a high speed.

My question is : Can SS h2h fight at lightspeed? i.e speed blitz Flash style.
I know he doesnt need to fight h2h and therefore its not shown him doing so, but thats why I question if he can.

I didn't mean to post that picture, so I edited it. Look at the new one.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, i'm trying to remember back to those early surfer vol 2s. didn't all the elders get together to try and kill galactus? can't remember exactly what happened. anyway, i'm not sure champ's as tough as some on this thread are making out. each of the elders has their specialty and no one better screw with them in that area. champ's is hand-to-hand combat, but surf wouldn't take him that way. i'm sure champ could use the PP to combat surfer, but his mastery would not be very good. (collector tried to use his PP against the avengers after having NOT used it for a long time and got his arse totalled in a hurry!) i also believe surfer's fought and beaten other elders who also wield the PP - gardener i think, and the runner, and a couple others. and we can't forget the power cosmic is derived from galactus! the power primordial (wherever it stems from) CAN'T come from a much more powerful source. my money would be on SS - unless of course they were both thrown into a ring (which is what it looks like in that farsical issue of she hulk!)

The only Elder I remember SS beating is Obliterator, and only because he manipulated his technology. Surfer tried blasting him with the power cosmic to no avail. But Surfer will not have that luxury. Champion only uses the Power Primordial, and his fists. Not much Surfer can do to him.

Cosmic Cube
Long pig, here's Surfer reacting at superspeed.

long pig
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, i'm trying to remember back to those early surfer vol 2s. didn't all the elders get together to try and kill galactus? can't remember exactly what happened. anyway, i'm not sure champ's as tough as some on this thread are making out. each of the elders has their specialty and no one better screw with them in that area. champ's is hand-to-hand combat, but surf wouldn't take him that way. i'm sure champ could use the PP to combat surfer, but his mastery would not be very good. (collector tried to use his PP against the avengers after having NOT used it for a long time and got his arse totalled in a hurry!) i also believe surfer's fought and beaten other elders who also wield the PP - gardener i think, and the runner, and a couple others. and we can't forget the power cosmic is derived from galactus! the power primordial (wherever it stems from) CAN'T come from a much more powerful source. my money would be on SS - unless of course they were both thrown into a ring (which is what it looks like in that farsical issue of she hulk!)

SS beat The Runner?
Thats hella fishy, because i have a comic where The runner is going multiples of Lightspeed around SS and making fun of how slow surfer is, and talked down to SS like he wasnt anything...SS seemed to know not to mess with The Runner.

PP isnt more powerful than Galactus, and Champ wouldnt dent Galactus. Big G is a part of nature.
BUT...thats not the point, the point is SS has only a small portion of Galactus' power.
SS couldnt hurt Champ. Champ totally outclasses him in all areas.

Cosmic Cube
Long pig, did you see the scan?

The Runnner can manipulate time and space to "run" at any speed he desires. He might have been moving at a billion times the speed of light.

long pig
ok, A nanosecond is an derived unit of time equal to 10-9 of a second
1/60 of a minute. So, that said, surfer did surpass Lightspeed, light speed can go 29.9792458 cm per nanosecond in the vaccum of space.

Thanks CC.

Cosmic Cube
You got it. To make what you just said understandable for the simple folk:
A nanosecond is one billionth of a second. Light only goes about 30 cm in a nanosecond.

kgkg

kgkg
part 2

Cosmic Cube
Hmm... That doesn't make sense. Champion shouldn't be affected by the Power Cosmic if he has the Power Primordial. No other elder has been affected. Perhaps he didn't have the Power Primordial in this fight.

That art sucks.

long pig
Where are those scans from?
I have a sneaking suspicion its fanfic. If not, its horrible writing/art.

Remember when Gladiator got beat by Cannonball?
Thats better writing than the above scans.

Gladiator and Champ have always been victims of bad writing.

Cosmic Cube
Champ gets severely slutted by Marvel's writers. He always gets used as a plot device, or just a punching bag. He's the best fighter in the universe for Christ's sake. No reason they should write him losing so much.

I'm sure that the Power Cosmic does not affect wielders of the Power Primordial.

kgkg

kgkg
well that just shows how powerful SS is.

long pig
Of course it doesn't....well it shouldn't.
Those scans make no sense whatsoever.

Cosmic Cube
I haven't ever seen an elder do anything but laugh at the Power Cosmic in the past.

long pig

Cosmic Cube
I mean, Surfer's powerful as all hell, few people can stand before him when he's exercising his full power; but Champion is an Elder of the Universe. The Power Primordial exceeds the Power Cosmic. I just don't see Surfer winning...

K Von Doom
Thanos was blasting Champion with cosmic power during "Thanos Quest" and Champion, unfazed, kept moving towards Thanos.

long pig
Thats what we're talking about, this makes no sense whatsoever.
Obviously Thanos' blasts are more powerful than SS.

KV, should we declare PIS on this? I have the "PIS" flag waiting to be planted.

demigawd
To be fair, Adam Warlock also beat Champion in full combat (energy blasts, soul gem, etc.). When Warlock fought Champion "fair and square" instead, he got wasted. So that lends credit to the theory that Champion can't be beaten at his own game, but he can be beaten.

kgkg
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Thanos was blasting Champion with cosmic power during "Thanos Quest" and Champion, unfazed, kept moving towards Thanos.
did you see what happend i have that comic.

Champion had the Power Gem and was getting bitchslaped like all of Thanos other oponents if you guys want scans just ask.

All Champion does is Talk big and he was no match for Thanos even with the Power Gem

long pig
Was that when thanos got a few jabs in but never hurt Champ, and then hid behind his forcefield until finally tricked Champ into punching the world in half?

They never hurt each other the entire fight.

If its another comic, then sure...I'd like to see them.

kgkg
i will post it for people to check it out.

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kgkg
Thanos was more than a match for Champion with Power Gem.

So i don't see what's the big deal with Champion.

K Von Doom
In terms of power, Thanos surpasses the Surfer. In terms of fighting ability, Thanos surpasses the Surfer. In terms of strategy, Thanos surpasses the Surfer. That fight showed that brains win against brawn - but Surfer is no Thanos.

long pig
That was funny as hell, but proved our point, no where in that whole fight scene did Thanos hurt Champ, with fists or with power cosmic.
Not even a "oof" and this is THANOS we're talking about.

No one was saying Champ could beat Thanos, because he can't, we said Thanos' cosmic power didnt effect him, and as you showed us, it didnt.

Thanos is more than a match for almost anyone.
But, he never once hurt Champ...maybe his pride.

the Darkone
Originally posted by kg kg
Thanos was more than a match for Champion with Power Gem.

So i don't see what's the big deal with Champion.





I agree with you kg kg that thanos can beat almost anybody with our with out prep-time. But thanos is a freak of nature he is not your average eternal he is the most powerful one from titan/eternal and ikaris is second from earth eternal. But if you but him in fight like the contest of champion thanos will get his a$$ kicked but thanos isn't stupid enough to fight him like that. And in that fight thanos was using his cosmic and plasma energy to increase his own abilities.

And thanos owns the surfer, he smarter,stronger, tougher and silver surfer is also weak against mind attacks where thanos rarely uses it but when he does he pretty munch awsome and monster.

Thanos is the ultimate badass, better than overrated darkseid

savagerampage
thanos kicks ass

leonidas
i go back to my earlier point - if each of the elders wields the power primordial, dos that mean surfer couldn't beat ANY of them? not even the (gulp) gardener??!

the Darkone
Originally posted by leonidas
i go back to my earlier point - if each of the elders wields the power primordial, dos that mean surfer couldn't beat ANY of them? not even the (gulp) gardener??!


Only a few that use it, the runner, the champion, grandmaster. that's about it.

demigawd
The problem is, even though no comics writer would write the Gardener using PP to level planets and destroy teams, I comic board debators probably would because it's within their capabilities, just not their inclination.

kgkg
i like runner the most.

Champion is too cocky and dumb.

the Darkone
the runner is the sh**. and smarter too.

stevusmagnus
You total dumbasses. Champion is a master of hand to han combat. So what? Surfer would deep fry his sorry ass in 5 seconds.

leonidas
dumbasses? what are you, 4 years old? sneaking into mommy's room to use her computer? it's ignorant posts like this (that, thankfully, come up seldom enough from what i've seen on this forum) that turn fun and friendly debate into stupid pissing contests. read the thread, do some research, realize that champion is much more than simply a hand-to-hand fighter, then come back with an educated - or at least an informed - opinion. or you could always just post a flame to THIS post of course, and continue to demonstrate your ignorance and immaturity.

long pig
If written properly NO ONE should be able to beat Champ in a h2h fight. But just like a lot of other characters he isnt written right.

And ss couldnt do anything to Champ, Cosmic powers dont effect Elders.

But Champ is seldom written properly. Even the Thanos fight is wrong, Champ has faught for hundreds of billions of years and never lost a fight but some how thanos beats him with ease?
It doesnt work like that.
I can argue he could beat anyone in h2h and you could argue she-hulk beat him once, and both of us are right.
Its another PIS infected character.

kgkg
Originally posted by long pig
If written properly NO ONE should be able to beat Champ in a h2h fight. But just like a lot of other characters he isnt written right.

And ss couldnt do anything to Champ, Cosmic powers dont effect Elders.

But Champ is seldom written properly. Even the Thanos fight is wrong, Champ has faught for hundreds of billions of years and never lost a fight but some how thanos beats him with ease?
It doesnt work like that.
I can argue he could beat anyone in h2h and you could argue she-hulk beat him once, and both of us are right.
Its another PIS infected character.

It is not PIS

when it happend so many times.

Surfer beated - Two elders already.
Thonos - bitchslaped Champion (with power Gem)

too many to call it PIS am sure there are lot more like that.

long pig
Do you realize how many times Gladiator has been ***** slapped?
How many times wolverine has taken on hulk and the like, or when Wolvie hurt Thanos??
It's PIS.
Just reaccuring PIS.

kgkg
Originally posted by long pig
Do you realize how many times Gladiator has been ***** slapped?
How many times wolverine has taken on hulk and the like, or when Wolvie hurt Thanos??
It's PIS.
Just reaccuring PIS.

Gladiator - Twice both explained.
Wolverine has taken hulk? when with gas , but head on he got knock the fu@k out.

Wol hurt Thanos --- when? IG?

I get what you are saying long pig.

long pig
Yea, Wolverine scratched Thanos, ADAMANTIUM LESS.

Wolverine even trading punches with hulk and surviving is bullshit.

It's just annoying to me because Gladiator and Champ could be awesome characters is they were well written, but they arent.

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