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Woo... have fun with this. I expect half a million votes for Vader, and about thirteen "Who is Kaan?"s.

Who is Kaan?

You're kidding... Bah. Alright.

Lord Kaan is the Sith lord in Bane's time who unleashed the thought bomb at the Battle of Ruusan that killed all life on the planet, give or take a few souls.

Lord Kaan... is the maan

lol

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~pg02/khan.png








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Vader wuld win

i hate star trek

Uh, Kaan is not Star Trek... lol

yes there is a guy in star trek 2......star trek 2:the wrath of Khan.

and i know who ur talkin about from SW too.

im not dumb, if there is one thing i can surely state i know most about in here, is movies. SW happens to be my fav one, and the one i know most about.

i think that is a cold and false statement. I'm not saying that I know the most, but there are plenty of people here who I am sure know more than you. Kaan wins.

so if they said it u wuld tell them the same thinig, no one knows for sure, but i am confident, and i dont think there is anyone in this website anyway, that knows more in general about movies than me. im not trying to sound pompous, and i may be wrong, its just what i think.

Vader wuld def. win.

No, no he wouldn't.

And because I spent time ranting about this on a ESB Vader versus Maul thread over in an episodes section of the forum, I'm gonna paste some of my argument with its arguments as to why Vader couldn't kick any Jedi or Sith's ass who actually had a weapon and two functional eyes.
- Vader was on artificial respiration. Despite all the badassedness potential people say Anakin has, he still couldn't use the Force to keep his own lungs filled with oxygen. If you think he can move faster via the Force or whatnot, I'd like for you to put an oxygen mask on and run a few laps. If you don't pass out, you might be able to do one or two moves.

- His legs from the knees down are artificial, as is one of his arms. While some people think he could tweak these for an advantage, that's not taking Vader as he is, but rather as you would have him. And if that's the case, let all his opponents have enhanced cyber suits for a fair fight. In any case, this idea is ludicrous. Unless you could find a scientific engineering process that would make the Vader suit faster while still controllable, I'd never ever believe this and neither should anyone else.

- Vader was a middle aged man in ESB with more health problems then a WWII vet out of Okinawa. He quite simply isn't anywhere near as fast as he was, nor as human. His Force affinity has been msotly lost, and in any case it's not like he had to use it all that much after the Jedi Purge. It's not like he had been in a decent fight in the last twenty plus years, either.

- MistaMandalore, you say Vaders skill with a lightsaber is never really seen. You could argue that point for every Jedi and Sith in the series, because we only see a few (if that many) battles for each character, and each of those is limited in length from as small as half a minute to perhaps three or five. None of them are really, honestly enough to base one's complete skill in any case. It would be like seeing two rounds of the Rocky versus Tyson match and saying Tyson wins because he's champ. Let me put this in perspective... -That doesn't make a logical argument statement to support your beliefs.- And that, my friends, makes your words worth a bit less than the air they sailed out on.

Actually, both of his arms are mechanical. And he has droids that are built similarly to Grievous (they're his own design really) and that's how he practices his saber skills.

George Lucas has claimed that Grievous is the "prototype vader" Based on that, I think it is safe to assume that Vader's arms and legs were constructed similarly to Grievous' so that they could withstand combat and be able to keep up with him.

You're right, Vader is much slower than Anakin. However, the darkside is powerful enough, combined with his affinity with the force,(which never goes away, I mean the force is his daddy) that I still think he could take out virtually any Jedi we have seen. Sith however, with one good shot of lightning would likely waste him, unless his powers are more than I give him credit for.

And if you don't believe me that's cool, but do you really think Sidious, in all of his Sith knowledge and power, wouldn't have at least the blue prints to make Vader stronger and faster?

It's far fetched. I mean, if there was an instance where vader goes hardcore cyber ninja style, I'd relent. But it didn't happen, therefore I won't assume it could have. Hardcore Cyber Ninja Vader.... HCNV.... sounds like a disease...

But I still refuse to believe the Force is Anakin's daddy. And for this reason...

Being raised by a single mother, and having known many dedicated mothers, I could perfectly see and identify with Shmi lying to Qui Gon about her son being born of the Force just so they'd take him in and he'd be away from that enslaved existance. I mean, if you had a kid whom you loved like no other but oth of you were in a bad spot, and you could get him or her safely away and have him or her be raised as a great Jedi knight, wouldn't you fib?

On the other hand, I didn't see a birth certificate with The Living Force as his daddy. And I can't fathom why the Force would take such drastic measures to impregnate some slave human woman with a prodigy child that would end up causing more harm then good and would never realize his potential. Seeing as Sidious is a Force user, why not make him have some kind of accident? Or have his ship collide with another Force user with an undefined but glamourous future? There are a million and one other ways Sidious could have more effectively been dealt with than this so-called prophecy. It just reeks of "Hey, let's throw this in in the prequels and see if it floats."

lol, I see what you mean, but as Lucas has said, and Episode 3 will prove(Yoda mainly) Anakin was conceived by the will of the force and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

And of course we never saw HCNV, because
A. It was way back when, so technology couldn't support that type of dueling
B. Considering their budget, Lucas was more concerned with the story telling than looking cool (ironically his largest flaw now)
C. You've said it before as well, the sabers they used back then were very weak and therefore unaible tro be swung as fast as they can now (this is ellaborating on technology)

As much as I hate the thought, how do we know Lucas won't go back again and change things , like make the fighting better or something?
He's done it before, and there darkside is strong in him.

Vader would win. Let me Explain.

I admit that hes a GEEZER, and he has health problems. BUT

Although I do believe that Lord Kaan is an Ultimate Badass. Vader is THE Ultimate Badass.

He has 10,000+ Mediclorians, MORE THAN YODA as stated in Episode II.

He has more connection with the force than any BEING THAT EVER EXISTED.

I believe that because of his connection with the force he could do anything any other Jedi could but with more power, IF he was taught the ability.

Because he has a more powerful Connection with the force and his Hatred of his own past would Fuel his rage and he would ***** SLAP Kaan.
What makes you think he couldn't Augment his abilties as Yoda and Palpatine do. Just cus hes an old man don't mean anything. You have no idea the powers he could use. (Only Lucas does)

P.S. Although he cannot use Force Lightning since he has no Hands (you need hands to do it and defend against it, without a lightsaber)

So Kaan made a thought bomb,destroying all Sith and Jedi on Ruusan.Except Darth Bane.Still now nobody knows how Darth Bane escaped.I think i'm going with Vader here,cuz i'm still not convinced that Kaan is any better then Vader.

Originally posted by Cronis_Tiberius
Vader would win. Let me Explain.

I admit that hes a GEEZER, and he has health problems. BUT

Although I do believe that Lord Kaan is an Ultimate Badass. Vader is THE Ultimate Badass.

He has 10,000+ Mediclorians, MORE THAN YODA as stated in Episode II.

He has more connection with the force than any BEING THAT EVER EXISTED.

I believe that because of his connection with the force he could do anything any other Jedi could but with more power, IF he was taught the ability.

Because he has a more powerful Connection with the force and his Hatred of his own past would Fuel his rage and he would ***** SLAP Kaan.
What makes you think he couldn't Augment his abilties as Yoda and Palpatine do. Just cus hes an old man don't mean anything. You have no idea the powers he could use. (Only Lucas does)

P.S. Although he cannot use Force Lightning since he has no Hands (you need hands to do it and defend against it, without a lightsaber)

Nowhere does it say Anakin/Vader has more midi-chlorians than anyone ever of all time, permanently. It merely says he has a high count, higher than Yoda apparently. It is not "Of all time" or ever. And it didn't save his ass from Obi-Wrath on Mustafar. After Mustafar, GL says himself that Vader is much weaker, and his potential has been more or less stunted and then capped.

Lord Kaan, however, was a leader among dark Jedi and, though not mentally stable, was able to wield Force powers Anakin/VAder couldn't dream of and didn't have the time to master. Anakin before the suit wasn't masterful enough in the Force to defeat Obi, and Yoda would own his ass silly.

I honestly can't see an argument that makes me convinced Vader could win, especially the Chosen One theory.

Vader. Kaan (as stated by Bane) is a coward and even admitted that he's not as good as Bane. Its true Vader is slow, but I still think Vader kills Kaan.

rip

Kaans only powers were BM and being persuasive. I have the same powers. I offer people a pint and a hooker. Get the same results and I don't even need the Force!

In Death Star, it says that Vader has over 20,000 midi-chlorians per cell count.

Back to the question, the Thought Bomb is a ritual, not a power. If we're talking about pre-body life support system then I'm giving it to Vader. But, hampered by the life support/armored suit, I'm going to have to give it Kaan. Simply put, I don't think Vader would have been able to combat his speed and mobility.

LOL your going to give it to that weakling kaan? Vader at one point in the duel nearly killed galen marek, hell your severely underestimating vaders force abilities.

His is no slouch in saber combat either, read RODV and it describes his movements as "quick, acrobatic and saber form unpredictable".

I'm not giving it to Kaan. I presented both sides - Vader unhampered would annihilate Kaan in a lightsaber and Force contest easily. In body suit, Vader would have difficulty defeating Kaan because Vader couldn't complete a Force enhanced jump. His body armor couldn't take the stress. Kaan may have been weaker in the Force yes, but his armor couldn't take the stress. Vader is older and would have been worn out.

True. BUT Vader did kill Galen Marek's father, who was faster then him and he killed the Dark Woman.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
LOL your going to give it to that weakling kaan?

Darth Bane, the guy who hated Kaan more than anyone, admitted that, for all his failings, Kaan "had never been weak." That says a lot coming from Bane.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Vader at one point in the duel nearly killed galen marek.

No he didn't. The most he accomplished was two near misses (grazes at best) that Galen didn't even feel.

Originally posted by mattatom
Kaans only powers were BM and being persuasive. I have the same powers. I offer people a pint and a hooker. Get the same results and I don't even need the Force! And of course, BM in this case is an acronym for something other than Battle Meditation.

... Hm.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And of course, BM in this case is an acronym for something other than Battle Meditation.

Bowel movement?

Oh, you're good. Very good.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
I'm not giving it to Kaan. I presented both sides - Vader unhampered would annihilate Kaan in a lightsaber and Force contest easily. In body suit, Vader would have difficulty defeating Kaan because Vader couldn't complete a Force enhanced jump. His body armor couldn't take the stress. Kaan may have been weaker in the Force yes, but his armor couldn't take the stress. Vader is older and would have been worn out. Right, so before vader even does anything, he according to you is already worn out.

So because of the armor, he is going to have difficulty fighting not only kaan, but anybody in the mythos. Funny how he tooled 3-4 jedi knights at once despite this dilemma and is still a beast in the force being able to choke xizor light years away and crush an entire structure with the force.

Yup, his suit didn't let him do that alright. Kaan isn't going to last long against vader and vader id going to beat him comfortably.

And vader can't complete a force jump? You must have never read any of the empire comics showing vader dodging blaster bolts with force jump.


Seriously, one post your saying kaan takes it and now your saying vader takes it with extreme difficulty?
F-a-i-l.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Darth Bane, the guy who hated Kaan more than anyone, admitted that, for all his failings, Kaan "had never been weak." That says a lot coming from Bane.
Had never been weak in that era, but compared to the the big daddies of SW, hes weak.

Again how does this prove he is going to last long and give vader a hard fight? What substantiates his skills in the force? What substantiates his lightsaber skils in an era of weaklings?(save for kasim).

Originally posted by chilled monkey

No he didn't. The most he accomplished was two near misses (grazes at best) that Galen didn't even feel. Yet they still fought on even footing until galen achieved his clarity and whooped his ass.

I also can't remember Kaan having any combat feats, at all.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Right, so before vader even does anything, he according to you is already worn out.

So because of the armor, he is going to have difficulty fighting not only kaan, but anybody in the mythos. Funny how he tooled 3-4 jedi knights at once despite this dilemma and is still a beast in the force being able to choke xizor light years away and crush an entire structure with the force.

Yup, his suit didn't let him do that alright. Kaan isn't going to last long against vader and vader id going to beat him comfortably.

And vader can't complete a force jump? You must have never read any of the empire comics showing vader dodging blaster bolts with force jump.


Seriously, one post your saying kaan takes it and now your saying vader takes it with extreme difficulty?
F-a-i-l.
I agree with you. Vader would is awesome!

Originally posted by mattatom
I also can't remember Kaan having any combat feats, at all. He boned Githany who knows how many times... that puts him on par with at least Revan.


And of course Revan boned Bastila, a blue teenager, and a cat. That puts him at least on par with Vader.


Who of course boned the former ruler of a planet and Luke Skywalker's mom, so that puts him at least on par with Sidious.


Who himself boned Gideon's mom that one night she forgot to take her pill. Damn, I dropped the ball.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He boned Githany who knows how many times... that puts him on par with at least Revan.


And of course Revan boned Bastila, a blue teenager, and a cat. That puts him at least on par with Vader.


Who of course boned the former ruler of a planet and Luke Skywalker's mom, so that puts him at least on par with Sidious.


Who himself boned Gideon's mom that one night she forgot to take her pill. Damn, I dropped the ball.

Revan didn't bone the blue one and the lesbian. But everything else is definately true.

That wasn't combat that was just overpowering them.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Had never been weak in that era, but compared to the the big daddies of SW, hes weak.

Again how does this prove he is going to last long and give vader a hard fight? What substantiates his skills in the force? What substantiates his lightsaber skils in an era of weaklings?(save for kasim).

It doesn't. I just wanted to point out Bane didn't consider Kaan weak in order to be fair. To my knowledge Kaan has no combat feats. He himself acknowledged that he was no match for Bane in a fight.


Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Yet they still fought on even footing until galen achieved his clarity and whooped his ass.

Yeah that's true.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Revan didn't bone the blue one and the lesbian.

That is correct.

Fair enough, honestly i actually like the way kaan was drawn in the JVS book. While bane claimed kaan isn't weak, we cannot conclude how strong is he actually and therefore i think its safe to assume he, like revan is an unknown.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Revan didn't bone the blue one and the lesbian. That's just because you didn't really play the game, man. Me, I played it to the max. I played with love, man. And because of that, I got Revan to do it with an underage blue girl, and a cat woman.

my revan had all 3 of them at once man.

See, Slash? There's a true playa.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That's just because you didn't really play the game, man. Me, I played it to the max. I played with love, man. And because of that, I got Revan to do it with an underage blue girl, and a cat woman.

In other words you either played a faulty version of the game with an error or cheated with a fake fan-made mod.

In the real thing Revan's story with Juhani can only take an intimate turn if Revan is female.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
See, Slash? There's a true playa.

My Revan had Bastila's mum.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
In other words you either played a faulty version of the game with an error or cheated with a fake fan-made mod.

In the real thing Revan's story with Juhani can only take an intimate turn if Revan is female.

seriously? there is lesbian intimacy with juhani?

Not with my Juhani.







But that may be because I always killed her off.

Originally posted by truejedi
seriously? there is lesbian intimacy with juhani?

Yep. That's why KotOR is awesome.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
In other words you either played a faulty version of the game with an error or cheated with a fake fan-made mod.

In the real thing Revan's story with Juhani can only take an intimate turn if Revan is female. Do you actually think that everything I say I'm being serious about, or are you just that messed up?

He's just that messed up.

My Revan messed him up.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Do you actually think that everything I say I'm being serious about, or are you just that messed up?

Srsly, you just noticed that?

Armor can't take the strain of a back flip. It kinda prevents arching the back and I don't know what Vader's armor limits are.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Srsly, you just noticed that? Nope. But I'm always offering the benefit of the doubt and giving him a chance to... learn.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Do you actually think that everything I say I'm being serious about, or are you just that messed up?

I find it hard to tell, so I have to make sure.

Anyway, I've been thinking. Kaan can control minds and Vader has a lot of pschological problems. Maybe Kaan could beat him that way.

If Vader's mind was weak enough for Kaan to f*ck with, then Sidious really missed out on cashing that check.

Vader's agility was well demostrated in the force unleashed where he was able to keep up and countinly fight against a much younger starkiller. And plus his armor offers him a good amount of protection as also seen in the force unleashed.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I find it hard to tell, so I have to make sure.

Anyway, I've been thinking. Kaan can control minds and Vader has a lot of pschological problems. Maybe Kaan could beat him that way. Oh wow so a weakling like kaan can simply "control vaders" mind and wtf pwn him like that.

For all we know if kaan attempted to emphasise on vaders problems it is only going to make vader even more angry and motivate him to kill kaan.

You really think kaan is going to easily control vaders mind and make his psychological problems worse?

Funny how you claim kaan has no combat feats but you think a little scumbag weakling like kaan is going to control vader because "he has a lot of psychological problems", you in the history of this forums is the only person that think kaan can beat vader.

Seriously i find your lack of vader disturbing.

I argree.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Seriously i find your lack of vader disturbing.

Listen to him he's serial!