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Who would win in a battle between ESB Luke and TPM Obi-Wan?
Both are apprentices, and both duelled, and lost, against a sith lord. Personally I say that Obi-Wan lost against Maul, it was luck that allowed him to win.
So between the two, who comes out the victor?

obi,he had more training

Luke. He had (contrary to popular belief) several months of training as a Jedi. He had fought Darth Vader on some weird planet, and survived because of the Kiabuur(?) crystal. It is also not impossible to train yourself. Where were the first jedi trained? Luke wins.

planet is bespin,and it is kyber crystal,and ob1 wins

I don't see how a few months of training and a losing fight against a Sith Lord that wasn't exactly trying to kill him is better than years of training and actually cutting a Sith Lord in half.

Padawan Learner Obi-Wan Kenobi wins this one.

Bespin was their second fight. go read Splinter of the Minds Eye. Maul just made one fatal mistake. Obi-wan didnt beat him with skill.

yes he did,maul pushed him into that sh1t,and i cant read anything cuz i don't have place to buy it

Wait, so Luke fought Vader for the 2nd time on Bespin (which makes no sense, but I digress), and still came at him like an idiot? And you said Luke survived because of a crystal. At least Obi-Wan Kenobi had the sense to take advantage of an opportunity when he saw it. I don't see Luke winning against a Jedi who was said to already be ready for the trials of knighthood at the time of his appearance and who also dealt death to an extremely combat-oriented Sith Lord.

^^
the guy is right

amazon.com

???

you can buy books there. go read Splinter of the Minds Eye. It was one of the, if not the first Star Wars books ever written.

hello!i live in Serbia And Montenegro!we are cut off lol

they ship to the whole world.

still i need a credit card,i'll check up with my mom

Obi-Wan by a LONGSHOT!

Luke in ESB was still a child of the force. Obi-Wan has been a Jedi ever since he was like five years old and was much more experienced than Luke.

Obi-Wan Kenobi.

I don't know how you can say that Obi lost to Darth Maul. Let me ask you this, who was in two peices after the duel was over? Who cares how he won, the fact is, he did. Case closed

I'm not sure if Luke could have beaten C3PO at that time, let alone a well trained Jedi like obi wan

Originally posted by Kun-ni Habeo
planet is bespin,and it is kyber crystal,and ob1 wins What is a Kyber crystal?

a kyber crystal increases someones connectivity to the force, and some seem to be able to do other things to like healing people. It also appears to work as a crystal in a lightsaber, because Luke experimented with the one he found and put small shards in his lightsaber. Obi-wan did not beat Maul alone. Qui-gon did atleast 70% of the work, Maul just got lucky and finished him.

Ridiculous. Obi Wan was getting all up in Maul's grill, to quote a guy I worked with. For a padawan he had amazing skill and potential that Luke clearly didn't have. Watch the fight again. Maul's good, but Obi Wan was able to keep up with him and even push him back after Qui Gon died. Maul's sole advantage came when he force pushed Obi Wan off the ledge.

As for Luke, he's no Jedi. He's a farmboy with a long way to go, even by ROTJ. He could not and would not beat Obi Wan at any phase in the Jedi's life.

Even if it were ROTJ Luke, I still think Obi-Wan will whip his ass.

please say something to support you crap idea

maul was all over obi till the end.....and even then, when he was on the defensive, he was ownin'. but the fact is he lost-tear-

obi wuld beat lukes anus though....ESB

you are all stupid. just thought you should know.

someone else must be as smart as me and think that Luke would in.

just because we dont agree with you makes us instantly stupid.....Damn you suck.

Maybe you should consider that the more people who think it, it may be right.
I hae learned to deal with it....ESB Luke would lose dude.

well i am sorry that i have dificulty displaying sarcasm over the internet.

calling people stupid isnt any kind of sarcasm as i see it. just dont be a weenie is all im sayin.

Alf gives you a thumns up.

Training

Obi Wan- Formal training for about fifteen years plus at the hands of Qui Gon Jinn.

Luke- A fraction of that, if at all, most by himself and a bit with Yoda.


Abilities

Obi Wan- Clear use of blaster deflection, force jumping, pulling, pushing. Ability to hold his own against the deadly and quick Maul.

Luke- Most of the same, though to a lesser extent. Definately less refined.

Temperment

Obi Wan- More rash then we're used to him being, but still pretty level headed and confident.

Luke- An immature boy who is hasty, emotional, and uncertain.

that cleary states Luke is better.

Where? Luke did not have the discipline to be a true Jedi. His rashness, emotional attitudes, and his uncertainty undermine any abilities he has. Even Obi Wan, after being pushed off of the ledge, was still able to clear his mind, draw upon the Force, and make a devastating comeback.

there goes more vain sarcastic attempts

Where's your compelling argument, then?

I argue Luke is more powerful because he blew up the death star with the aid of the force after only having known about it for 3 or 4 days. And he did take on Vader, which was stupid, but he did, sort of okay lol

But Janus is right, Obi-Wan's training and skill would lead him to victory on this one.

and still resisted dark side against 2 VERY powerfull sith lords,that statement is sh1t

Originally posted by Kun-ni Habeo
and still resisted dark side against 2 VERY powerfull sith lords,that statement is sh1t

He resisted it because of his Sister... You see him go over the edge when Vader mentions Leia... He beats Vader and then he remembers who is dad is and what happend to him, then he remembers his sister and what kind of life he could still have.

Luke had a better reason to stay light then Anakin did, and Sidious hardly wasted time trying to persuade him. Didn't work in a few minutes okay you die...

Obi is simply more trained and he would get victory out of that alone. What is luke but a boy with only a few weeks of training. What is luke but a lucky kid that hasn't even started his road to become a real Jedi yet.

Luke. He had (contrary to popular belief) several months of training as a Jedi. He had fought Darth Vader on some weird planet, and survived because of the Kyber crystal. It is also not impossible to train yourself. Where were the first jedi trained? Luke wins. The Kyber crystal enhanced his connection to the force which allowed him to actually cut off Vader mechanical arm in a battle( he did have help from Leia though).

Obi-wan may have killed Obi-wan but he did barely any of the work. Qui-gon did practically everything. I also think that Obi-wan was in a crazy force faze after seeing him Master killed. (Something similar would be when Anakin Solo became one with the force for a few minutes before he died and killed hundreds of Yuuzhan Vong and the Queen Jedi Killer. His brother Jacen also reached this during the attack on Shimera's palace, but he, unlike his brother survived.

Does anyone think that Obi-wan never taught Luke when he was a Force Ghost? Seems very likely to me that he did because he knew he would need the training. That could be three years of training by Obi-wan by ESB.

All of the following times assume that the fighters kept fighting after the seen changed to a different location.

Qui-gon and Obi-wan vs. Darth Maul

Qui-gon and Obi-wan, 251 seconds
Qui-gon by himself, 71 seconds
Obi-wan by himself, 37 seconds

Luke vs. Darth Vader

Luke by himself, 356 seconds

This is not counting the fight in Splinter of the Minds Eye.(mainly because I thought that fight was dumb anyway.)

I personally think that Darth Vader is the stronger Sith Lord, and Luke fought him longer than Obi-wan did by himself.

All of the following times assume that the fighters kept fighting after the seen changed to a different location.



Conclusion.

Luke managed to hold out against a stronger Sith Lord longer than Obi-wan. This just shows more skill and capability.

Though I love Glentract's points about Luke's power, I think Obi would probably beat ESB Luke. Now ROTJ Luke would easily beat TPM Obi. Obi-Wan just had more experience, about 13 years in the temple, then 13 years from Qui-Gon.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Luke. He had (contrary to popular belief) several months of training as a Jedi. He had fought Darth Vader on some weird planet, and survived because of the Kyber crystal. It is also not impossible to train yourself. Where were the first jedi trained? Luke wins. The Kyber crystal enhanced his connection to the force which allowed him to actually cut off Vader mechanical arm in a battle( he did have help from Leia though).

Obi-wan may have killed Obi-wan but he did barely any of the work. Qui-gon did practically everything. I also think that Obi-wan was in a crazy force faze after seeing him Master killed. (Something similar would be when Anakin Solo became one with the force for a few minutes before he died and killed hundreds of Yuuzhan Vong and the Queen Jedi Killer. His brother Jacen also reached this during the attack on Shimera's palace, but he, unlike his brother survived.

Does anyone think that Obi-wan never taught Luke when he was a Force Ghost? Seems very likely to me that he did because he knew he would need the training. That could be three years of training by Obi-wan by ESB.

All of the following times assume that the fighters kept fighting after the seen changed to a different location.

Qui-gon and Obi-wan vs. Darth Maul

Qui-gon and Obi-wan, 251 seconds
Qui-gon by himself, 71 seconds
Obi-wan by himself, 37 seconds

Luke vs. Darth Vader

Luke by himself, 356 seconds

This is not counting the fight in Splinter of the Minds Eye.(mainly because I thought that fight was dumb anyway.)

I personally think that Darth Vader is the stronger Sith Lord, and Luke fought him longer than Obi-wan did by himself.

All of the following times assume that the fighters kept fighting after the seen changed to a different location.



Conclusion.

Luke managed to hold out against a stronger Sith Lord longer than Obi-wan. This just shows more skill and capability.

Your points:

It is not impossible to train yourself. It's also not a sure fire way to become better than a professionally trained person. I could spend three months or three years practising to become a pilot, but it's unlikely I would best someone who was one for almost two decades.

Luke survived because of a Kyber crystal. Of course he did. He was in ESB. He had to survive. Moot point, really. Does he carry that crystal around all the time? Is that even a valid thing to add to his defense? He's juiced on some crystal and yet couldn't levitate his own ship out of the swamp? Pfft.

Now, as for Obi's encounter with Maul, I've watched the battle many times (I have a clip of it for just this purpose) and I've come to a lot of conclusions. First off, Qui Gon was a very in-your-face fighter and isn't exactly the kind to compliment another Jedi. And while he did quite good considering, after his death Obi Wan was much better. His parries and blows were like lightning and I personally think Maul was getting impatient because he suddenly knew Obi Wan would not be an easy kill. Saying Obi's clearly shown talent is inferior to Luke's untrained abilities is ridiculous. There's nothing to show that Luke defeated anyone on Obi's level, and don't give me that "He beat Vader" crap. For one, mecha Vader wasn't out to saber his son in half. If he was, it'd be a real short trilogy. Two, he didn't do it with a multitude of skill. It was more like hit or miss really.

I'd love to see it where Obi Wan as a Force Ghost trains Luke for three years before ESB. The kid was led to Yoda to begin training as a Jedi. He wasn't sent to Yoda to continue his training. There's just nothing to support such an idea.

Your times are cute and perhaps even correct, but older fights went by slower. The moves were slower, more drama was involved, less flashy crap. The prequel fights are probably so damn short because the new generation attention span can't last a five, ten, or fifteen minutes duel.

So you're saying anyone that fights better in the MOVIES is stronger? Well then why didn't you vote for Maul against Dooku? Maul is clearly superior in fighting and Dooku's lightning sure wouldn't work. Sounds like you only bring this point up when its a first trilogy vs second trilogy type fight.

And of course Obi-Wan was training Luke between 4 and 5. Do you really think he would just let the only hope (or so he thought) just sit by and do nothing? In ANH Luke sure doesn't have telekinesis but by the start of 5 he does, it would probably be hard to learn that all on your own.

I still think Obi would win, don't get me wrong, it just wouldn't be a cake walk. Obi-Wan did have a lot of potential himself, more than the average Jedi to say the least.

revan is right

Originally posted by Darth Revan33
So you're saying anyone that fights better in the MOVIES is stronger? Well then why didn't you vote for Maul against Dooku? Maul is clearly superior in fighting and Dooku's lightning sure wouldn't work. Sounds like you only bring this point up when its a first trilogy vs second trilogy type fight.

And of course Obi-Wan was training Luke between 4 and 5. Do you really think he would just let the only hope (or so he thought) just sit by and do nothing? In ANH Luke sure doesn't have telekinesis but by the start of 5 he does, it would probably be hard to learn that all on your own.

I still think Obi would win, don't get me wrong, it just wouldn't be a cake walk. Obi-Wan did have a lot of potential himself, more than the average Jedi to say the least.

Becaus Dooku has a superior fighting style, Mauls maybe effective but not against a lightsaber master. Maul would die because Dooku has superior skills and training.

Now what makes you think Obi trained Luke?

When Luke see's Obi ghost in ROTJ he acts confused and is very surprised to see it, he wasn't expecting it and he sure as hell didn't see it a lot. Otherwise he wouldn't have been so confused about it. If Obi trained Luke, Luke would have known that Obi could do that and would not have been so surprised. Luke was trained on the way towards Alderaan and on Dagaboh by Yoda. And that was only a very small time, before he ran off to save his friends. He returned to Yoda in ROTJ and then Yoda was dying.

He didn't recieve a lot of training, he was a natural in the force and sure as hell learned fast, but he didn't have the knowledge of Lightsabers fighting that Obi did and he didn't have the knowledge of the force Obi had either. Everytime you see Luke with a lightsaber in ESB he moves it like a untrained person moves a sword. He did not have the skill to beat Obi.

Its like Obi was standing up against a very powerful Padawan that knew almost nothing about the force and training, his affinity with the force would not help him without training. He hardly had any. Obi would have won, and he would have done so easily.

Thanks, Fishy. My mind wasn't working yesterday too well. I knew I had better point to prove, but they were just elluding me.

Originally posted by Fishy
He resisted it because of his Sister... You see him go over the edge when Vader mentions Leia... He beats Vader and then he remembers who is dad is and what happend to him, then he remembers his sister and what kind of life he could still have.

Luke had a better reason to stay light then Anakin did, and Sidious hardly wasted time trying to persuade him. Didn't work in a few minutes okay you die...

Obi is simply more trained and he would get victory out of that alone. What is luke but a boy with only a few weeks of training. What is luke but a lucky kid that hasn't even started his road to become a real Jedi yet.

more importantly(if this wasnt said already) he resisted them in ROTJ not ESB which is the version fighting here.

Good point

Maul was a better duelist. He was trained from birth to be a Sith Lord, Dooku only had 10 years of Sith training. And I'm mostly saying that he was better in the movies. Alot of it comes from the actors, but AOTC Dooku just can't compare with TPM Maul.

On subject though, Luke wasn't really that surprised to see Ben, and he was near losing consciousness. He learned more than just in the movies. Besides, he impressed Vader whom is said to be stronger than Maul. Luke's training was lacking but he could almost compete with Vader. Lucas says so himself. He did even get a good hit on Vader with his lightsaber.

Even still, I think TPM Obi-Wan wins. Though not by too much.

Here, have a look at the contestants.

And Luke...

I really had to nyx the quality of that pic just to post it. Meh.

obi