Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

wolverine......hundreds of years of it. he's been a samurai, a black ops agent, an asassin, weaponx, great with weapons and cant be matched at hand to hand combat. doesnt need his claws. i consider shiva and batman obsulete compared to logan

You're joking. Wolverine is a VERY good fighter but he's not Lady Shiva's level or the Dragon's either. Batman is far superior to Wolverine in hand to hand combat.

Best fighters are UFC and Pride fighters

batman has not lived as long as wolverine has. he has more expierience, strength and tactics. wolvies faster than any of those guys you just sai......in a comic, shiva would win because shes a girl and the writers dont want to be sexist. wolverine man

ufc fighters suck! they have no balance at all

Captain America would kick Wolverine's ass in a hand to hand fight.

Daredevil would probably give him a damn good work out too.

Just because Wolverine has lived longer and debateably has more experience, that doesn't make him a better fighter.

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
batman has not lived as long as wolverine has. he has more expierience, strength and tactics. wolvies faster than any of those guys you just sai......in a comic, shiva would win because shes a girl and the writers dont want to be sexist. wolverine man

Wolverine has lived long...but has nowhere near the same amount of training. If you have read the Origin you would know that Wolverine hasn't been training all of his life.

Batman has mastered 127 martial arts....and then some. Wolverine doesn't have the reputoire. He primarily focuses on Japanese fighting styles.

And Shiva is so far beyond Wolvie it aint funny.

Jplatinum is the best by far.

Originally posted by Draco69
Wolverine has lived long...but has nowhere near the same amount of training. If you have read the Origin you would know that Wolverine hasn't been training all of his life.

Batman has mastered 127 martial arts....and then some. Wolverine doesn't have the reputoire. He primarily focuses on Japanese fighting styles.

And Shiva is so far beyond Wolvie it aint funny.

You think Shiva can beat/kill Wolverine Draco? Just curious?

wolverine is a weapon down to his very bone. he can take beatings, even without a healing factor. he fights the best ninjas and wins within a couple seconds.....every punch he gives is powerful

quick reflexes......can dodge any of these guys you are naming

Originally posted by David Duchovony
You think Shiva can beat/kill Wolverine Draco? Just curious?

No. I'm saying she is FAR more skilled.

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
quick reflexes......can dodge any of these guys you are naming

I thought this was supposed to be about skills. Not claws or healing factor.

Well, think she can knock Wolverine out at least if written well.

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
quick reflexes......can dodge any of these guys you are naming

Wolverine's reflexes are "peak human"

same with Captain America and Daredevil.

he can do it without claws or healing factors...he has skill.....lethal kind

wolverine has more determination and heart than captain america. his willpower is just too much

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
he can do it without claws or healing factors...he has skill.....lethal kind

Skill by definition of martial arts and fighting ability? Then...

Full Credence to DarkCrawler for information below:

Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.

Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.

This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.

From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.

The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.

Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.

As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.

Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.

The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it.

xplosive!
it's nice to see someone else has some common sense around here!
wolverine fan you are a punk who probably doesn't even know what REAL fighting is about.

the best fighter is BY FAR the Champion of the Universe in Hand-to-hand combat, then comes Wolverine, then Captain America, then the Thing.

thats just marvel though, im not familiar enough with DC to list anyone from it.

Outside of those not named already: Shang Chi, the Cat--Shen Kuei, Iron Fist, Black Panther, Taskmaster, and the Challenger are all, or should be, some of the best fighters in the world, for Marvel.

Shang Chi just goes without saying. The Cat can keep up with Shang, and took out DP with ease. Iron Fist was the first, and only, one to defeat Shou-Lao the Undying, he mastered the mystical martial arts of K'un L'un, etc. And Black Panther was able to hold his own, and eventually (through a bit of trickery) defeat him.

go to hell mr. smiley....wolverine knows just as much skill as batman but with greater determination

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
go to hell mr. smiley....wolverine knows just as much skill as batman but with greater determination

Go back to the previous page. You'll see why you are wrong.

i wasn't talking about wolverine and batman *****.
I was saying how dumb you are to say ufc and pride fighters suck.

batman would not be able to do anything to wolverine

ufc does suck

Batman would lose to Wolverine. But Batman is far more skilled in the fighting department. Which you can see from this:

Full Credence to DarkCrawler for information below:

Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.

Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.

This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.

From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.

The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.

Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.

As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.

Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.

The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it.

and how can you prove ufc sucks!

boxers could bring them down. ufc guys have so much adrenaline they cant control it. they shake around and have no aim with punches and miss by a mile. they get 20 out of 500 punches in...their moves arent smooth either

by saying bruce lee could punch a guy twenty feet back!
lol.
look for the bruce lee vs mas oyama page and see how me and demigawd (or whatever his name is) discuss this.

that's why every boxer who goes in ufc does horrible

That's why antoni noki beat the crap out of muhammed ali

there good at trashing eachother. thats it

ha!
good defense.

by the way royce graci beat art jimmerson who was a boxing champion and won the golden gloves award many times.
royce beat him without getting puncher once!

they have no BALANCE. PUST THEM ONCE AND THEY FALL OVER. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME I SEE IT

PUSH*

Not to mention royce,rickson,gilber yvel and many others challenged mike tyson to a nhb mma match and he declined every offer.

helio gracie even challenged joe louis to a fight and he declined

yeah many times!

that's hilarious.

In order to prove your an all around fighter you have to know it all.
thats why straight out boxers get owned in the ufc.

you want to know why mike tyson always broke his hand in every street fight he had?
Because He couldn't punch correctly.
In the ring he was too taped up to have to.

WOLVERINEFAN, pull your head out of your butt. A boxer would get murdered by a UFC fighter.

Modern UFC fighters are compitent in striking, grappling, wrestling, and submissions. Boxers are only good at striking. A UFC fighter would shoot his legs, pull them out from under him, and be on top of him beating him unconscious before the boxer even could get the chance to properly defend himself.

UFC, PRIDE fighters trains, they live from fighting, they dedicate some part of their life to train, most well rounded figthes, Batman is not in such leauge, he would get handled in hadn-to-hand combat to such figther (and Batman is normal human), so probably many UFC, Pride fighters are also phisically strogner. And of course Boxer really don't have the chance, UFC, Pride fighters woul punish Boxer on the ground badly.

A boxer would have to train in jiu jitsu,shoot fighting,or some form of ground fighting to even stand a chance.
Not to mention in boxing you can't even kick!
A few good thigh kicks by a ufc/pride fighter would send any boxer down.

by the way all you ufc fans try this out

http://quizilla.com/users/mr.smiley/quizzes/the%20ultimate%20fighting%20quiz

Marvel: Shang Chi, Iron Fist, Taskmaster, and Stick.

DC: Batman, Cassandra Cain, Lady Shiva, Deathstroke

I think Stick one on one can slap them all. Just an opinion, and opinions vary.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
by the way all you ufc fans try this out

http://quizilla.com/users/mr.smiley/quizzes/the%20ultimate%20fighting%20quiz
Randy Couture! The all american champion best describes you. You like to find what your opponent is best at and beat him with his own tactics.Your wrestiling skills are superior to almost anyone and you were born a champion.

linkalicious, you know very well how unbalaced they are. the submission they do are easy to get out of........i guess im saying this because im a better fighter in the real world

my heads not im my butt anyway ya asswipe

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
linkalicious, you know very well how unbalaced they are. the submission they do are easy to get out of........i guess im saying this because im a better fighter in the real world
Obviously they're not that easy to get out of if people can't get out of them. You'd think in all the history of UFC, there'd be somebody who "blew the lid" off that one.

Akuma is the #1 martial artist. He hasn't mastered as many forms of fighting as Batman or the others, but he's taped into the dark Hadou. Using his Chi he's pushed himself above and beyond anything a normal human could achieve. The power he possesses is beyond comprehension, this man could feasibly dent low grade adamantium.

okya wolverine fan.
lets let antonia nogeria get you in a triangle and I gurantee you,you will be out in three seconds.
Theirs a big diference between some bum trying to do these moves and a proffesional doing it.
Your a better fighter in the real world?
hahahahahahah!
lmmfao!
YEAH BOXING IS REAL WORLD FIGHTING

the refs stop the submissions be fore they can do damage. they dont want major injuries

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
the refs stop the submissions be fore they can do damage. they dont want major injuries

Is that how Shamrock crippled 5 people?

im all kinds of fighting. a black belt to the highest and a wrestler. im 26

Is that why renzo gracie broke his arm against sakuraba.
Just because the ref breaks the submission doesn't mean they get hurt.
A lot of fighters get broken bones from submissions

listen belts only cover three inches of your ass buddy.

Not to mention the ref only breaks it because the opponent taps out.

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
im all kinds of fighting. a black belt to the highest and a wrestler. im 26 Good for you...even though you sound like you're half that age. Why don't you take your bravado into the Octagon and see how long you last. My guess, not long.

A boxer is better than a UFC fighter? Get real. I remember the very first UFC event, when this fool tried to fight with a boxing glove on one hand. The commentators were wondering if the guy was on crack or something.

NINJA STYLE IS MUCH FASTER THEN A UFC

THEY HAVE BALANCE AND PRECISION..SOMETHING A UFC WILL NEVER HAVE

THEY HAVE SKILL TOO. ANY ONE CAN BE IN THE UFC. THEY JUST HAFTA KNO HOW TO DO A SUBMISSION AND MISS EVERY PUNCH THEY GIVE

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
THEY HAVE SKILL TOO. ANY ONE CAN BE IN THE UFC. THEY JUST HAFTA KNO HOW TO DO A SUBMISSION AND MISS EVERY PUNCH THEY GIVE

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!

AM I TURNING YUR SMILE UPSIDE DOWN MR. SMILEY?

TALKING ABOUT A UFC VS. A HIGHLY TRAINED BLACKBELT

Alright, this has to be a joke account. There is no "ninja style" martial arts. There's ninjitsu but from what I heard, BJJ trumps it in combat and all kinds of UFC fighters practice BJJ.

Originally posted by Nataku8188
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!

I DON'T KNOW!!!!

MUST BE HARD OF HEARING OR SOMETHING!!!!!

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
THEY HAVE BALANCE AND PRECISION..SOMETHING A UFC WILL NEVER HAVE Balance and precision, huh? I suppose you've seen a real 'ninja' right? So have I...on his ass in the Octagon. With his sword and Shurikens (sp?) lying next to him.

YA IM SURE YOU HAVE

IM SORRY, THEY JUST DONT IMPRESS ME AT ALL

Why?

Ninja style?you mean ninjisu?
In ufc 2 or 3 a ninjitsu guy got his ass beat with rapid elbows to the head

smiles upside down?
sorry but no.
Not everyone can apply a submission hold the Right way.
example

the keylock can break an apponents elbow or wrist.
the only way to get out is if your opponent has applied this above your own head.
If it is level with your shoulders guess what?
crack!

Being a black belt means crap unless you apply it in a REAL fight.
Not some sort of dojo lesson.

I have a black belt I beat little kids with. It cost me 5.96 at K-mart. **** yea!

and from what the history of mixed martial arts has shown us only a few fighting styles give us a realistic chance of winning a fight

Originally posted by Nataku8188
I have a black belt I beat little kids with. It cost me 5.96 at K-mart. **** yea!
Extention cord > 6 dollar belt

listen wolverine fan.
we proved why boxers suck in ufc and also told you ninjitsu lost.
Please continue.
I enjoy kicking peoples asses and debates and in REAL life

NO IM TALKING ABOUT THE HIGHEST DEGREE BLACK BELTS

Originally posted by Nataku8188
I have a black belt I beat little kids with. It cost me 5.96 at K-mart. **** yea! Feh, that's nothing. I have an old WWF World Title belt.

THEY ARE FASTER

Originally posted by Lord S
Feh, that's nothing. I have an old WWF World Title belt.

Hah! I have a deluxe Red Ranger belt with a blaster clip! Beat that biyatches!

JET LEE COULD PROBABLY BEAT ONE UP

like ron van clief?
he also lost in ufc and he even invented his own style of karate.

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
THEY ARE FASTER Who cares? What has a 'ninja' ever accomplished in the UFC? Or are they too good for it?

IF UFC IS THE BEST YOU CAN GET THEN I AM ASHAMED TO BE A HUMAN

WHEN SOME ONE IS FASTER WITH QUICKER REFLEXES, YOU CAN NOT HIT THEM. PERIOD

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
JET LEE COULD PROBABLY BEAT ONE UP I'll assume you meant Jet Li. And he is a movie star, ****tard. He'd be a grease spot in a matter of seconds against Shamrock.

well than be ashamed.
why you look up to fighters who refuse to fight in the ufc i'll look up to fighter who actualy compete and prove why they are the best

Originally posted by WOLVERINEFAN
IF UFC IS THE BEST YOU CAN GET THEN I AM ASHAMED TO BE A HUMAN An accomplishment, to be sure. I'd have been ashamed years ago if I were in your shoes.

I have been reading martial arts threads with a great deal of amusement on this forum. We have superheroes here and a lot of people who are really, really ill informed.

At this point you are waiting for me to make some mad statement about what I can do etc. sorry I am not interested in what I or anyone ese on this forum has done or thinks they can do in Martial arts, playing with myself or anything else. Instead I am going to point out a few of serious flaws in all martial arts thread discussions on this forum.

Firstly styles make fights one fighter may be able to beat another who someone else who has beaten them cannot beat. Nowhere is this more obvious than in boxing the UFC.

Secondly many martial artists do not need to be good at lots of things to be very effective. Many boxers who are "good" often have one or two techniques which seperate them from the others around at their time. An example of this is a young Mike Tyson pre Buster Douglas, Desiree Washington, Robyn Givens etc. He was an excellent boxer but his skills were not on a par with say a Lennox Lewis, he did not win an Olympic Gold for instance. However at this point his lateral movement made him very difficult to hit, at this point he had an edge. As soon as he lost this edge he was half the fighter.

Thirdly many techniques often are no more efective than the basic techniques well executed. In Muay Thai for example Leg kicks knees, elbows and a good defence will get you a long way. A fighter though who is an expert at the clinch could be equally effective.

In my opinion Wolverines basic technique and power would negate the others greater "skill". It would also be fair to comment, as that a I know others are about to state it speed will be a factor. Not really where speed differentials are not great - thats why weight classes exist a good big fighter will always beat a good small fighter (I know wolverines short, but he strikes above the others weight class). I am not going to get onto Wolvies other advantages as this thread is about skill. But if you can hide a technique or deliver it from various angles you can often beat more skilled oponents. Look at Naseem Hahmed in the 90's poor basic technique, clever delivery, finally lost when he faced a truly superb orthodox defence.

So in summary what really is skill, styles make fights e.g. Randy Couture does the basics beautifully.

You don't have to hit them.

ufc one i'm quoting art jimmerson.

"you can't hit what you can't see"

guess what,royce gracie didn't punch him.
he took him to the ground and submitted him before he even applied a submission!

some fighters only relie on a few skills but they always get beat eventualy because people figure them out.

you cant hit a person if they are faster

a ufc fighter is like a defused bomb......nothing to do but stand there....no point in moving

Originally posted by mr.smiley
You don't have to hit them.

ufc one i'm quoting art jimmerson.

"you can't hit what you can't see"

guess what,royce gracie didn't punch him.
he took him to the ground and submitted him before he even applied a submission! WOLVERINEFAN would have you believe that Gracie wouldn't even be able to catch a 'ninja', much less grapple him into submission.

He did it! The caps lock is off.

Originally posted by mr.smiley
You don't have to hit them.

ufc one i'm quoting art jimmerson.

"you can't hit what you can't see"

guess what,royce gracie didn't punch him.
he took him to the ground and submitted him before he even applied a submission!

Yes he did, styles make fights but my friend the way the ufc rules are set it gives geat advantages to submission specialists. However I love the UFC and I do not see a way round this in keeping this sport developing and eventually becoming mainstream. Any changes to favour strikers would set the clock back in MMA to the underground scene and when I was younger I observed some Traveller bare knuckle fights, its not big and its not clever.

LOL

wolverine fan you are a F&%king moron.
i'm leaving this forum and going and having a good evening but i'll be back tomorow to kick you ass again

goodnight

u should of just asked draco

Originally posted by mr.smiley
some fighters only relie on a few skills but they always get beat eventualy because people figure them out.

Most fighters get beaten, in fact I can think of no great and please dont say Rocky Marciano as his last 25 fights were fixed by the mob, who has not been beaten. Ortiz, Holyfield, Ali, Couture, Lewis, Leonard, they all lose eventually and many did not have a wide range of skills but dominated at some point in there career.

Styles make fights!

Uhm?, where is Spawn, or Prince Namor, or Vigilante in this arguement?

wolverine is the best fighter. he knows all forms of combat and tactics

Originally posted by biskit13
Uhm?, where is Spawn, or Prince Namor, or Vigilante in this arguement?

They suck at fighting, they are just really powerful.

Akuma = Best. Fighter. Ever.

Originally posted by Lord S
Who cares? What has a 'ninja' ever accomplished in the UFC? Or are they too good for it?

I think he would do ok if he was allowed a sword

Boxing- Rocky Marciano
Wrestling- Brock Lesnar
"wrastlin"- Ric Flair
UFC- Shamrock
Cartoon- Goku
Comic- Batman/Wolverine/Spawn
Movie-Sean Claude Van-Damn
All Around- Bruce Lee

What about Roy Jones for boxing?

kurt angle is the best at wrestling

emille griffith would of been a very powerful guy if he didnt wimp out the rest of his career

emille griffith:boxing

I wouldn't put Jean-Claude VanDamme above Steven Seagal...

That Aikido stuff is awesome once you've had the training...

PLus, he's ex military combat instructor. Seagal really knows his stuff.

Oh - and didn't VanDamme got knocked out by Tysons bodyguard in a club?

kurt Angle won a Gold medal, yes, but Brock has the best record EVER for collegate wrestlers

Thats why i said "movie" in the beginning of the name

Besides, segal's movie fighting is tooooo slow-motion, just watch Kickboxer, then compair it to segal

all i know is check "batman: year one" when he just started out he was training in his backyard and he smashed thru a nice sized tree with one crushing blow of a kick. then he punched thru a brick wall. so i would say he's stronger than wolvie. credence must be given to batman cuz he can lift 800 and he doesnt have unbreakable bones, plus the massive info posted earlier echoes whats in the batman encyclopdia..... wolvie would just play to type and gut his ass tho but i give bats mad props.

according to all if not most marvel sources(official ones) Cap is the greatest H2h combatant in the MU. he and wolvie are a select few whose fightiing skill ratio is maxed out on the graph(marvel.com, encyclopedia vol.6, xmen encyclopedia) sure there are other cats out there who are ill but they only have a specialty or two while these guys command a litle bit of everything(cap and logan)

Originally posted by Lord S
What about Roy Jones for boxing?

Roy Jones was great!! but its very difficult to compare eras Marciano was a cruiserweigt by todays's standards. Sugar Ray Leonard or Joe Lewis were also genius for there time. Some of the little guys like Azuma Nelson were bloody marvelous, Ali and Lewis have tremendous records as does holyfield. Max Schemling was a god outside of boxing he smuggled jews out of Germany whilst pretending to be the ultimate Aryan warrior. So many greats.

Randy Couture is undoubtedly the best in MMA world titles at 2 weights fantastic submissions , he is peerless.

steven segal sucks man ,he just fights with his hands like a little biznitch

Originally posted by manjaro
all i know is check "batman: year one" when he just started out he was training in his backyard and he smashed thru a nice sized tree with one crushing blow of a kick. then he punched thru a brick wall. so i would say he's stronger than wolvie. credence must be given to batman cuz he can lift 800 and he doesnt have unbreakable bones, plus the massive info posted earlier echoes whats in the batman encyclopdia..... wolvie would just play to type and gut his ass tho but i give bats mad props.

according to all if not most marvel sources(official ones) Cap is the greatest H2h combatant in the MU. he and wolvie are a select few whose fightiing skill ratio is maxed out on the graph(marvel.com, encyclopedia vol.6, xmen encyclopedia) sure there are other cats out there who are ill but they only have a specialty or two while these guys command a litle bit of everything(cap and logan)

To supplement this:


Skill by definition of martial arts and fighting ability? Then...

Full Credence to DarkCrawler for information below:

Batman is a master of Haragei, a master who has expanded his physical senses over this plane of existence to another and thus becoming hyper aware of his surroundings without appearing to really being anything different from others. He is keenly aware of everything going on around him and also the microscopic and the astral world around himself. Furthermore he can feel that world around himself and thus being one of the most difficult targets for telepathy and also telepathic obfuscation. Along these lines the Bat has learnt and masters both the Sakki and Kiai. Kiai is the ability to feel the intent and thus be able to act accordingly. However Sakki is the force of the intention and with these three pillars the Bat can take the physical battle to another level, to the psychological, the mental plane. The Sakki and Kiai, completed with the mastery of Haragei can be used as physical weapons, a force of wills where every blow is even stronger than the physical ones. As a ninja and a master of haragei, Batman has learnt to cope without his sensory input, making him able to fight and function without any sort of handicap should he lose his sight or hearing, or other senses. The fact is that the Bat is far beyond the human senses and even though they are handy, they're not needed.

Chi is another facet and a tactic the Batman uses, much like Sakki, it can be projected through the combat. Batman has been shown, on numerous occasions, to be able to perform feats impossible to humans. He has been shown to kick down trees, punch through concrete and mortar walls. He has been shown to be able to lift up a stone totem that weighed over a ton. He can project his Chi out of his body and aid him physically, because of this it is no big feat for him to punch through living trees and walls. By focusing his Chi inside his body he can ignore the physical damage and pain he receives. Through his training, Batman has trained himself to ignore exhaustion, sleep deprivation, emotions and also pain and agony. To anyone looking at the Bat, there is nothing remotely human about him other than the chin. As a Bat, when under control, he feels no emotions, no fear, no love, he is completely indifferent to the world around himself and thus he is in tune with it as Tao teaches. He flows from one motion to another in the river of life, this granting him the sixth sense, intuism he always listens to, the thing that has saved his life on many occasions.

This form, this Tao was taught to him by Mistress Shao-La in the Himalayas. Bruce Wayne had heard about a master with great power residing in the mountains and the young boy wanted to learn more. He went to the master who'd teach him the Tao and also self-control. The light side of this force would give him the control over his emotions and the ability to be in tune with the world, but it wasn't enough for him. Bruce Wayne wanted power, true power and after Shao-La told him about Master H'Sien Tan he would venture out there and learn.

From H'Sien Tan Bruce Wayne learnt the path of personal power. He learnt from the man that he had two destinies and by choosing one of them he'd receive everything he had ever wanted and the second would make him nearly omnipotent. This path would be the path of personal power he sought to avenge and to protect. In time it would also consume him. This little story is part of the package H'Sien Tan taught Bruce. The acceptance. The acceptance of one's fate, one's death and one's power. It was also a craft he taught to Bruce, to know, to feel the world and the energies around himself, to harness those energies and glean answers from them. This form of spiritualism has served Bruce well, but also it has twisted him and he has found ways to distort it, making him appear the victim even if he has wanted it. From H'Sien Tan he also learnt a way to control himself, not just his emotions but his body. Bruce is capable of, instinctually, command his body to stop bleeding, force healing on himself and even more importantly, he is able to ignore the toll exhaustion and the lack of sleep inflicts on him. Also Tan taught him the way to slow down his heart, the flow of his blood, to the level of dying and yet remaining alive.

The dark forces of Tao, the greed, is a powerful mistress and because of this the person who wields these arts needs to be mentally strong to wrest the control lest it controls him in his path to power. This dark art comprises partly of alchemy and magic mixed in with the mental control and hypnotism and this is the most formidable teaching Tan had to give Bruce.

Batman is able to force his presence on others, much like the way the Wrath of God appears. He can grow in people's minds, project his terror on them and destroy their minds, but at the same time he can push his presence inwardly and just disappear from their mind's eye, right in front of them and none will know how nor why. Furthermore he has learnt the power of suggestion, the ability to appear as something else to anyone and this is the key behind his quick costume changes and his disappearances. To add to this, his skills in these arts have given him a willpower matched by nearly none as he can ignore anything and go through stone and rock. The last skill Tan gave to Bruce was the art of the Tiger Fist, a punch so powerful it can rend through mountains, a skill, an art known to only 5 people on Earth and only 2 of them survive 'til this day.

As a ninja, a shadow assassin, Batman has been taught to use his surroundings to his advantage and so he knows when there are people in the correct vantage points, he knows how to conceal himself so that he is virtually invisible and he knows the ways to use the surroundings offensively. This lesson is part of the reason why the Bat was created in this visage. Bruce knows the hearts of the men and he can defeat them before engaging them in combat. In ancient times in Japan, the warrior caste, the Samurai, used the Ninja because their honor couldn't handle the deceitful tactics. However, Batman has no qualms with this and actually he uses quite a lot of deception as he does his work. Chu Chin Li and later on David Cain taught him the assassination tactics and skills, so he is aware of how a possible assassin will work and will think, and he can prepare against these situations.

Japanese sword fighting or Kendo is part of the Bushido class and way of life and also practiced by Batman and Bruce Wayne. From Bushido and Taothe Batman has taken the meditation skills taught to him by Shao-La for clearing his mind and his conscience, even if Alfred tends to call it brooding. Many a time the Bat has solved a case while meditating or sleeping, which is quite the same thing for him as he utilizes the sleeping techniques Shao-La taught him.

The ways of the Shadow Warrior are quite many and there are different rumors and different legends about the ninjas, and when concerning the Bat most of them hold true. However the main thing about the ninja is that they're adaptable and Batman has taken this strategy in his heart and cherishes it. He adapts to any situation and if he isn't able to conquer, he will find another way to do it.

undertaker is the best they have for wrestling entertainment

Originally posted by manjaro
steven segal sucks man ,he just fights with his hands like a little biznitch

Yeah. Apart from when he uses knives, bostaff, chucks, sai, etc etc...

Besides - what's wrong with using ur hands?

And he might look slow, but remember that Aikido is an Internal martial art, like Tai Chi. It's not about matching strength with strength or speed with speed.

You're right about VanDamme looking cooler on camera though.

"Taker" was great, at a moment, hell, i loved "stone Cold", but bottom line, "the Nature Boy" was best, for "wrastlin"

rocky is the best in movies. he just will never stop. i mean, getting hit over and over by a russian who brings 2500 pounds with each punch

"Sly" was great, but he burned out after a while, his older movies still hold up, but Jean Claude (even though there low budget)still makes more exciting fight scenes

Kickboxer was very good.

"Brick no hit BACK!!!"

He's got some very brutal painful looking fight scenes.

But if you're after sheer fighting skill:

Look for some of the old Jackie, Sammo and Yuen movies. They absolutely kick arse!

Originally posted by biskit13
"Sly" was great, but he burned out after a while, his older movies still hold up, but Jean Claude (even though there low budget)still makes more exciting fight scenes

On the set of Universal Soldier Dolph Lundgren who was a Kyokyshinki (a by Karates standard very powerful form) champion destroyed Jean Claude. Did Love JC as the gay karateka in his first movie and as the russion in no retreat no surrender(if you haven't seen it, watch it its hilarious).

Originally posted by manjaro
all i know is check "batman: year one" when he just started out he was training in his backyard and he smashed thru a nice sized tree with one crushing blow of a kick. then he punched thru a brick wall. so i would say he's stronger than wolvie. credence must be given to batman cuz he can lift 800 and he doesnt have unbreakable bones, plus the massive info posted earlier echoes whats in the batman encyclopdia..... wolvie would just play to type and gut his ass tho but i give bats mad props.

according to all if not most marvel sources(official ones) Cap is the greatest H2h combatant in the MU. he and wolvie are a select few whose fightiing skill ratio is maxed out on the graph(marvel.com, encyclopedia vol.6, xmen encyclopedia) sure there are other cats out there who are ill but they only have a specialty or two while these guys command a litle bit of everything(cap and logan)

for those who havent read year one, read it it's great! but i dont think you'll have to cuz, isnt the next movie based on it?

Originally posted by whirlysplat
On the set of Universal Soldier Dolph Lundgren who was a Kyokyshinki (a by Karates standard very powerful form) champion destroyed Jean Claude. Did Love JC as the gay karateka in his first movie and as the russion in no retreat no surrender(if you haven't seen it, watch it its hilarious).

What was that movie where he was a runaway from the foreign legion?

And Kyukoshinkai? That's karate how it should be lol, none of this shotokrap.

Aunt May can kick anyone's a**

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
What was that movie where he was a runaway from the foreign legion?

And Kyukoshinkai? That's karate how it should be lol, none of this shotokrap.

Sorry Zeph I had posted a sarcastic comment here, but I misunderstood your post and apologise and have deleted my post.

Sorry Mate

Karate has been very very downgraded since the early Karate-jutsu days. It used to be an art, now it's more of a sport... more popular fot it, but it's kinda lost it's original direction...

And yeah - usually the bigger guy will win, as long as he has a few moves up his sleeves.

But there's always exceptions.

Morehei Ueshiba - founder of Aikido (Seagal's art) - was absolutely tiny. Yet he was a master at directing his ki (Jap for Chi).

In front of a crowd, he stood within a circle on the floor and asked for strong young men to volunteer to rush at him and try to knock him over. Eight blokes surrounded him and then rushed him at the same time. They all went flying in every direction in the same instant, sprawled out on the floor... Ueshiba's feet never left the circle...

Awesome stuff. Shows what can be achieved when you put the hours in...

Obviously, 99.999% of MA's wouldn't be at that standard and would get their ass handed to them by 8 burly blokes lol.

lol

And no worries, Whirlmeister.

Thanks mate and yes I heard about that. I once saw an incredible pushing hands demo worthy of JP himself, it freaked me out a little.

I know it loses to MMA in the UFC but I still love watching things like Pride and trad Boxing.

azndrgn organized a marvel vs dc martial arts tournament that was pretty sweet. it was based on the votes of all the kmcers and last a pretty long time because each fight got it's own thread. here's the quote about the end of the champion ship:
Originally posted by azndrgn
Ok fans, here are the finalized tournament rankings from the 1st Marvel/DC Martial Arts Tournament. Fighters were ranked according to the number of points they earned by advancing to each round. For advancing one round a fighter earned one point. In the case that fighters tied in points, they were ranked according to the strength of the last opponent they lost to. Please keep in mind that these rankings apply only to this tournament and may possibly change with another tournament. The top 8 fighters from each division are guaranteed a spot in the next tournament. The bottom 8 fighters of each division will be evaluated as to who deserves to compete in the next tournament and who will be replaced with another qualified fighter. Thanks again to all of you who participated!


Marvel
1. Shang Chi (4)
2. Temugin (3)
3. Iron Fist (2)
4. Elektra (2)
5. Captain America (1)
6. Lady Deathstrike (1)
7. Daredevil (1)
8. Psylocke (1)
9. Black Panther (0)
10. Punisher (0)
11. Hawkeye (0)
12. Domino (0)
13. Night Thrasher (0)
14. Black Widow (0)
15. Moon Knight (0)
16. Black Cat (0)

DC
1. Karate Kid (5)
2. Cassandra Cain (3)
3. Lady Shiva (2)
4. Azrael (2)
5. Black Canary (1)
6. Master Kirigi (1)
7. Richard Dragon (1)
8. Connor Hawke (1)
9. Batman (0)
10. Catwoman (0)
11. Huntress (0)
12. Drakon (0)
13. Talia (0)
14. Robin (0)
15. Bronze Tiger (0)
16. Nightwing (0)

karate kid won

Hell yeah.

And I don't think JP bothers with any internal stuff myself.

Y bother when you're fifteen feet and made of solid adamantium...?

Oh hand on... am I thinking of Thing's....?

Originally posted by ZephroCarnelian
Hell yeah.

And I don't think JP bothers with any internal stuff myself.

Y bother when you're fifteen feet and made of solid adamantium...?

Oh hand on... am I thinking of Thing's....?

could be

I've said it twice already, Akuma is the ultimate Martial artist. He only need shoto-style 'cause he's just that powerful.

That dang Black Robb...

He's a pesky rapscallian and no mistake....

,,,,,,,Uhm, i take it Bruce Lee take's the ALLAROUND greatest Fighter,,,,since no-one disputed him

Originally posted by biskit13
,,,,,,,Uhm, i take it Bruce Lee take's the ALLAROUND greatest Fighter,,,,since no-one disputed him

That must be it

I'm glad Im not the only one who feals the Late (great) Bruce Lee, is the "best of the Best"!

Originally posted by biskit13
I'm glad Im not the only one who feals the Late (great) Bruce Lee, is the "best of the Best"!


uh huh

Terry Bogard and Akuma would be a good fight. How bout Geese and Ryu? Cool fights.

how about Aunt May Vs Rogue i dont think she can resist May's cookies of lovin'

Originally posted by Sentry
Terry Bogard and Akuma would be a good fight. How bout Geese and Ryu? Cool fights.

Naw, Akuma would smoke him. Geese vs Akuma would be a better fight, but Akuma would still smoke him. Based on the animes and such, Akuma should be WAYYYY better in the games. Kinda like Shin Akuma from CvsSNK2 without the massive damage taking.

fighters get beaten, in fact I can think of no great and please dont say Rocky Marciano as his last 25 fights were fixed by the mob, who has not been beaten. Ortiz, Holyfield, Ali, Couture, Lewis, Leonard, they all lose eventually.

you forgot to mention prol propagoda (wrong spelling)
and for belivers and jiu jitsu (the )
rickson gracie

This isn't about real life fighters, its about comic characters, jesus christ people!

now on one site i read they had 489 matches attributed to rickson gracie with only one loss.
others count him at 59 and o while others say 10 and o

Depends on what fights they are counting. All fights, MMA only, UFC only, etc.

Is this earth figures only, or anyone?

If anyone, then Champion of the Universe, followed by
Thanos, then Gamora.

Thanos isn't a great fighter, he's just uber powerful.

Akuma is by far the best martial artist in the world.

Actually, he is.

He lived for 10,000 years, during which time he faught plenty
of fights himself.

I believe he was the one who trained Gamora, who is an excellent
fighter and assasin.