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I recently created a thread where Maul faced off against AotC Anakin. Maul won by a long shot. Then I made another thread asking who would win between Maul and AotC Obi-Wan, Maul won again. So I guess the next step is to see if Maul could beat both Obi-Wan and Anakin.

Enjoy.

AOTC Obi-Wan alone is a match for Maul. Throw in Anakin Maul's pretty much like a steak on a grill.

I think Maul would be better at fighting two people than Dooku because of his lighsaber and Dooku beat them so Maul would win.

Maul was good and all, but Anakin and Obi-Wan at this point are each too much for him. He'll last about as long as he did before, but he'll go out from being outclassed, not outthought.

Obi-wan and Anakin.

Dooku could hand Maul his ass on a plate with lettuce and mayo on top. To even compare the two is ridiculous.

If AOTC Obi-wan can take him alone, adding Anakin is overkill

Slaughter...

Maul is really going to get it, but I wouldn't say it'd be as easy as all that. I've said it before, but we've seen what Anakin tends to do in a duel, at least as of AotC. He rushed Dooku instead of working as a cohesive team with Obi-Wan and paid the price for it. I'll downplay Obi-Wan and Anakin for a moment.

Let's say Anakin acts exactly as he did against Dooku. Against Obi-Wan's wishes to strategically attack Maul, Anakin rushes him. Now there's two things that can happen here. Maul can either become pressed by Anakin, in which case Obi-Wan can simply circle him and cut him down, or he can knock Anakin flat onto his ass. AotC Anakin wasn't that great of a duelist, so I see the latter happening very easily. In which case, if Anakin is seriously injured or flat out killed, it comes down to Obi-Wan. I don't think the fight would go as it did in TPM -- Obi-Wan fights very differently now. I think, however, in the end, it'd be a lot of Maul trying to get past Obi-Wan's defense... and failing. And then when Maul made a mistake, just as he tended to do in TPM, Kenobi would cut him in half again.

I gave Maul a serious chance in this one and I still say Kenobi and Skywalker win, if only because of Obi-Wan at the very least.

Obi and Anakin...

A rushed attack against Maul is going to be far more effective then it was against Dooku. Maul can barely attack, if he is forced on the defence then Obi and Anakin have an advantage and they could take it.

dooku is a far better duelist then maul. but in this1 maul dont have a lot of chances. i mean AotC obi wan is way better then TPM, yet he won there. i give this1 to obi and anakin

Are you guys kidding or are you assuming Maul would fight without a lightsaber? Maul was a master duelist, better than Dooku and you guys think Obi-Wan could beat him? Qui-Gon was council level Jedi and an awesome duelist among Jedi, after teaching Jedi knight Obi-Wan for 13 years they are still quite formidable. Maul beat them same time with ease. At that time it took everything Obi-Wan knew just to stay alive, as Maul continued to cloud his use of the Force. Obi probably got stronger but you really can't tell from 1 to 2, and Anakin was not nearly as strong as Qui-Gon was. It doesn't matter what Anakin or Obi-Wan do, Maul could simply outlast them if he wanted. And if they fight in the hangar than he won't underestimated them either so this isn't much of a challenge for Maul.

I completly agree with Revan

Please, in TPM, obi-wan takes him alone. And to those who say he got lucky, who cares how it happened. Obi-wan beat Maul in a straight up duel. Of course Obi in AOTC is even stronger, so he would probably beat him even easier. Adding anakin is pointless.

Obi wan alone > Maul

I've never understood why people think obi-wan is so weak. Who cares how he does it, the fact is, he is the only Jedi in 1000 years to beat a sith (maul) and he again beats one in episode 3 as we will see. Obi RULES. Since when is resourcefulness a weakness? Sure he doesn't appear to be as strong on paper, but that didn't stop him now did it?

Perhaps my analytical skills of a battle aren't up to par, but I recall seeing Obi-Wan completely throw Darth Maul off his guard and start tearing the Sith Lord up, getting right up in his face. Whether or not you want to admit it, Obi-Wan had Maul pressed and it wasn't until Maul threw Obi-Wan back with the Force that Maul gained any advantage at all (for all you Obi-haters out there, that can also be construed as a 'cheap shot').



Why wouldn't he? He did it before. This isn't a scenario in which Maul revives from the dead and swears vengeance on the Jedi that killed him and to make his apprentice suffer for it.

That being said, I don't think it'd be terribly easy, a 'slaughter' as some put it and I think there's a good chance Anakin would actually die, but eventually Maul would lose.

Oh joy... Some people don't even know they have fanboy tendencies...

Alright, you kids, listen up. I want to make a few things clear:

If Obi Wan starts whuppin' ass, he's barely winning. If Maul starts whuppin' ass, he's a master duellist better than Dooku.

If Obi Wan catches his opponent offguard (like the force jump followed by bisection) it's a cheap shot. If Maul catches his opponent offguard (Like the multiple times he kicked, punched, and force pushed off ledges) he's a legendary badass worth the blood of one's first born.

If Dooku dispatches Anakin in mere seconds (twice!) and sends Obi Wan to the ground reeling, he's a lesser duellist. If Maul fights against Qui Gon Jinn for five or ten minutes (And the majority of the fight it was Qui Gon pressing Maul while Maul would take steps to keep Obi Wan off his back) and then against Obi Wan for a minute and a half, he's the best Sith duellist ever, of all time, and makes all else weak.

I love this logic.

Yes, you can't argue with that logic

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Oh joy... Some people don't even know they have fanboy tendencies...

Alright, you kids, listen up. I want to make a few things clear:

If Obi Wan starts whuppin' ass, he's barely winning. If Maul starts whuppin' ass, he's a master duellist better than Dooku.

If Obi Wan catches his opponent offguard (like the force jump followed by bisection) it's a cheap shot. If Maul catches his opponent offguard (Like the multiple times he kicked, punched, and force pushed off ledges) he's a legendary badass worth the blood of one's first born.

If Dooku dispatches Anakin in mere seconds (twice!) and sends Obi Wan to the ground reeling, he's a lesser duellist. If Maul fights against Qui Gon Jinn for five or ten minutes (And the majority of the fight it was Qui Gon pressing Maul while Maul would take steps to keep Obi Wan off his back) and then against Obi Wan for a minute and a half, he's the best Sith duellist ever, of all time, and makes all else weak.

I love this logic.

Ok, I will simply make my rebuttal in order of paragraphs starting now. Who was Obi-Wan ever whooping in the movies? Nobody. (not counting ep. 3 of course cuz i dont want any spoilers) Everyone he fought had the upper hand on him for most of the fight. As for Maul being a better duelist than Dooku, I'll admit that my opinion is slightly biased as I haven't read the ep. 2 book. Even still, from what we have seen (so far) in the movies, there is little indication that Dooku is a better duelist than Maul. Maul took two strong Jedi at the same time. Dooku took two Jedi separately. Sure he held off Yoda for about 20 seconds but Maul could stay alive that long as well. Maul was born and bred all his life to be a Sith Lord. Dooku had 10 years of Sith training, and was pretty old if he was Qui-Gon's master.

On the contrary, I don't think there were any cheap shots in the movies (including Obi-Wan's and Maul's), they took advantage of a situation where the other was weak.

About the times that Dooku fought and Maul fought the two (separately), they are about the same. there was no five or ten minutes when he fought them separately. Next, Maul was doing almost all of the attacking, not defending the whole time like you said. And no, I really don't think Maul was the best duelist ever, not even close.

In conclusion, Maul defeated two Jedi at the same time. Qui-Gon was a council level Jedi that was a legendary (Jedi) swordsman, sure he was a little old, but look at Dooku and Yoda. Qui-Gon is far stronger than AOTC Anakin. Next we look at Obi-Wan, still loses to bounty hunters, and shows little indication (in the movies) that he is stronger than TPM though he surely is. When he fought Maul he was in a rage which we all know greatly boosts one's power (just like Luke vs. Vader in ROTJ). Maul was very good at separating the Jedi, look at how many times he does it in TPM. So even if he couldn't beat them at the same time (which I think would be fairly easy for him) he would just separte the two and kill them both that way. Maul will not hesitate to kill them like Dooku did.
So while I admit that Dooku would probably beat Maul in a battle, it would be close and that's still overkill for Obi-Wan and Anakin. And before the inevitable "Obi beat Maul" reply, yes Obi did kill Maul and he deserved to. But Maul was still far stronger and there's no ledge for him to think his opponents were defeated.

Revan 33, you've made some excellent points, but I'd like to pick up on a couple of things that I think have been left unsaid.

I'm unsure, but I believe Maul focused on Form VII lightsaber combat, which is extremely aggressive and relies almost entirely of martial combat and aerobic strength of body. Dooku on the other hand focuses on Form II lightsaber combat, which focuses on deftness of wrist, which actually encourages saber-locks, simply because Form II is far more subtle. In some ways, comparing Maul and Dooku can be a little like comparing apples and bananas, not only because of the difference in techniques, but also the disparity in knowledge of the Force

Maul's attacks were violent and aggressive to say the least, but I think saying that Obi was in a fit of rage when he defeated Maul may be a misomner. It's true, he was REALLY aggressive just after Maul killed Qui-Gonn and when he spilt Maul's double bladed lightsaber, but while he was hanging on the outcropping it was obvious that he had calmed himself, centred himself and overcame Maul because of his resourcefulness.

Another factor is that Maul's knowledge of the Force was inferior to that of Dooku. I'm convinced at least half of the reason Dooku toppled Anakin and Obi was due to the fact that he temporarily incapacitated Anakin with Force Lightning. Maul could not rely on such an advanced Force ability and therefore would've had to have taken both at the one time, while Dooku effectively divided and conquered.

In short I think Maul couldn't have taken Anakin and Obi together. Obi's Form III technique relies on defence, whereas Anakin's Form IV technique compensates with more aggressive and strength-based attacks.
maul would almost certainly be at a disadvantage because he would've had to have taken both at the same time, whereas Dooku, ever the older and more experience Force practitioner, effectively managed to separate the two and carve them up one at a time

Janus.....i see where ur comin from, but you make maul sound like a lil' b1tch, when hes not.

u underestimate him entirely.

He's not, I agree. But I do believe he's being pushed up to God status which he doesn't rightly deserve. Now if Maul was a mad slayer of Jedi and a survivor of some large war or battle, I would change my opinion drastically. But the fact remains that he had a long way to go to realize his full potential, and he was cut down.

Actually, most people i have found, talk worse about him than good.

and thats my point, but w/e....

at least i know hes a badAs$

I don't think Maul is weak, and lately, I've been researching both Maul and Mecha-Vader and amping my opinion on both. I think Maul would actually kill AotC Anakin, but I feel that AotC Obi-Wan is just too resourceful in addition to defenses that Maul couldn't break. I think Maul would slip and Obi-Wan would take him.

Originally posted by Darth Revan33
Are you guys kidding or are you assuming Maul would fight without a lightsaber? Maul was a master duelist, better than Dooku and you guys think Obi-Wan could beat him? Qui-Gon was council level Jedi and an awesome duelist among Jedi, after teaching Jedi knight Obi-Wan for 13 years they are still quite formidable. Maul beat them same time with ease. At that time it took everything Obi-Wan knew just to stay alive, as Maul continued to cloud his use of the Force. Obi probably got stronger but you really can't tell from 1 to 2, and Anakin was not nearly as strong as Qui-Gon was. It doesn't matter what Anakin or Obi-Wan do, Maul could simply outlast them if he wanted. And if they fight in the hangar than he won't underestimated them either so this isn't much of a challenge for Maul.
You forgot that Obi-Wan, by this time, has changed his form from the defensive form that Qui Gonn and himself used against Maul to a more agressive type.

..No, actually you have it backwards. Qui-Gon Jinn used the Ataru lightsaber form, which used Force-assisted jumps and movements in order to better get at vital points and/or catch the opponent off guard. It's far more aggressive than Soresu, the super defensive form that Obi-Wan switches to after Qui-Gon dies, believing that Ataru has a literally fatal flaw in it.

Well, Jack, I like Maul. Actually, having watched the fights over and over again gave me a lot of respect for his style and confidence. But he just keeps getting in these versus threads where he brings little to the table and the other people can more easily be declared the victor. I'm not saying he's worthless. I actually like the guy now, whereas before I thought he was fanboy bait.

I'm going to retract that statement. I watched the fight a couple of times since I got bored at my friend's house and I see that neither Maul nor Obi-Wan had much of an advantage. If anybody got the drop on anything, I'd say it was Obi cutting Maul's saber in half and Maul Force pushing Obi off the ledge. So I felt the need to give credit where credit is due: Maul is a total bad-ass, but I like the way he handles a single saber better than the double-bladed. But maybe that's me being biased; I like single sabers better.

I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't the more aggressive Ataru form that Obi-Wan used against Maul's Juyo that gave him the edge he needed to win. Would the Soresu form be as good? I still think that Obi-Wan would hold off Maul long enough for him to make a mistake, and then Obi-Wan would get him. But it wouldn't be an easy fight at all.

Anakin still dies.

Going on the defense against Maul is brilliant actually. Maul would attack with rage and a staff, i don't know if any of you ever used a weapon like that, but it makes you tired fast. Especially if you put all your anger in it. Not to mention that its incredibly hard to defend yourself with a weapon like that.

If you could manage to hold of the attacks of Maul then it would be a piece of cake to kill him later on. When he's tired.

Maul didn't get anywhere near tired in the fight against Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. The whole time the energy walls were blocking them he was pacing the floor and projecting menacing thoughts towards them both. And I truly think Maul would be the one to spot a weakness. Look at how many times he does it in Episode 1. 6 or 7 roughly. Look at how many times they (together) spotted a weakness in Maul. 3 times. Obi-Wan had to use everything he knew just to stay alive in the fight. Maul was far stronger than both of them and I don't think he would consider his opponents defeated if there's no open hole to fall into.

Yeah, i know he doesn't get tired fast, doesn't mean he won't get tired. If you are a master defender then you can hold on long enough. But i don't think they will need it, Maul his technique is based on the attack of one person. Not more, Maul will have a hard time attacking more opponents with a lightsaber and especially when they are both attacking. Its almost impossible to block with the weapon Maul uses.

Tobad Anakin and Obi have different fighting style's though, if they would choose one and go with that, they would win.

Maul did just fine defending against two lightsabers in TPM, and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were more skilled and would work better as a team than AotC Kenobi and Anakin.
Actually if you compare it like this, AotC Kenobi vs Qui-Gon, it is probably a tie, maybe Qui-Gon is a bit better. And TPM Kenobi vs AotC Anakin, while Kenobi is better there. So if you take that, Maul won against two stronger opponents.

also, a problem with AotC Kenobi and Anakin is that they wouldn't work well together, Anakin would rush in swinging, and Obi-Wan would hang back and play defense. At this point, the two do not work well, Maul would divide and gain the victory.

Well IMO AOTC Obi-Wan is actually better than Qui-Gon because in TPM Obi-Wan wasn't that far behind Qui-Gon and he simply got better as AOTC came around. Maul had to separate Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon to make it easier because IMO, he was overwhelmed by both of them at once. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon rarely fought together because Maul kept kicking one of them away. I would still put my money on the duo because IMO AOTC Obi-Wan alone can defeat Maul. But I do agree that Maul has a chance of winning, and if the Obi-Wan and Anakin get their asses kicked, it will most likely be Anakin's fault.

Sure, a staff makes you tired, but we're also talking a weapon more than 50% made of weightless energy. And it's not hard to defend with a staff at all.



Not at all. Obi-Wan had no advantage in the fight, this is true, but neither did Maul until he Force pushed him into the shaft. There was no desperate attempt to stay alive on Obi-Wan's part. Hell, he cut Maul's weapon in half and forced him onto his back.

Since this is AotC Jedi Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi, I'm going to say the TPM fight is almost irrelevant here Kenobi-wise. Obi-Wan fights very differently in either movie. So the real question is, was it Obi-Wan's use of the Ataru form that gave him his edge in TPM and will the Soresu form be just as good, worse, or better against Maul?

With a normal staff i agree, but with such a small handle? That isn't going to be easy

quote:
Obi-Wan had to use everything he knew just to stay alive in the fight.

well that's what it said in the book when the fight first started with both of them fighting Maul. But yes it would be different because Obi-Wan changes styles (imo) to a weaker one. AOTC Obi is probably better than Qui-Gon, but he and Anakin just don't work as a team and I think Maul could kill both of them together.

I don't exactly consider Salvatore's description of the fight to embody what I recall seeing in the movie. Obi Wan, after the death of Qui Gon, was very much on top of things.

That was said in both the junior novel and the regular one. Yes Obi-Wan did well, but if Qui-Gon hadn't died he wouldn't have done nearly that well and that won't really happen until either Obi or Anakin dies. Besides, look at how long it took Maul to defeat Obi. A minute? maybe less? Yes Obi got a hit on Maul but Maul got Obi twice and then he was defeated. Put them in the hangar and I truly doubt Obi would have been able to surprise Maul. Besides, we never saw him defeated by a stronger opponent so he could've been as strong as Dooku (with a lightsaber).

If Qui-Gon hadn't died, Maul would've been dead anyway. One of them was going down; if not Qui-Gon, it would've been Maul.



Maul got Obi once. He kicked Obi-Wan in the face, but Obi-Wan landed on his feet, none worse for wear. Only the Force push gave Maul any sort of advantage.



Why would you think this? Is Maul unable to be surprised without the use of a giant hole in the ground? Use some imagination.

I still think Obi-Wan has a good chance to win, but I never said Maul didn't either.

I think this is allot closer than any of you give it credit to be. Someone had stated ealier that if you compare qui gon and obi when they worked together they are better than anikin and obi. I think they are incredibley close. I think the fight would end up looking somehwat simular if you ask me. Who wins? Depends on where you want the plot to go

True, true but I shouldn't have even put that hangar there in the first place. There are too many random factors that play into fights so I simply debate on who's stronger, because you never know who will outsmart who.

I don't think any of you give anakin due credit, I personally think Anakin alone could take maul, but mebby i'm wrong. I just think Anakin is far superior to him, especially from what i've seen of RotS.

maul dies