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Discuss.

No.

No

even though this is gonna make me seem very narrow minded and conservative{which im definately NOT}, i will have to completely agree with the statement.

rap music makes women seem like sex toys and makes being a drug dealer or a thug seem cool.....which it's not.

It also promotes very bad, overdone music. Did I say music? I meant spoken, er, sped-up, word set to Casio keyboard background noise.

Fo Sho botankus!

this is my opinion... anybody dumb enough to imitate what the music- any kind of music- says or what the movies show shouldn't be allowed near a radio and television.

somehow these people tend to forget that this is all just a figment of an imaginative mind that wanted to entertain people. it's not a script to life. i'm a grown man with stress at work and at home, f*cking up 3-d zombies and imperial samurais is the only relief i get when i get home. and on the way home, i cuss along with ice cube, 50 cent and whoever is flavor of the week in the rap game.

Fo shizzle my wizzle..bo gizzle.

some artists...do promote bad things.. but personally i like rap music

EDIT: i love all kinds of music including rock, rap, pop, hip-hop, trance, house, country...

true. but who in their right mind would allow themself to be influence by a line or two of bad poetry or a single scene in a movie?

You'd be surprised. Rap Music is EXTREMELY influential on black youth in America.

Rap for the most part supports the "thug life gangsta pimp f**k the police let's f**k some hoes we found in the club" type of life style. not cool boo boo. what would Jesus say? don't tell me he'd say crank that sh*t up homeboy...cuz I doubt that.

what a load of crap!!
Im crazy for rap... i love rap and I'm totally ok with black people, Im not at ALL violent, I support gay marriage, etc.

if u think that if u listen rap music u'll become a sexist violent racist man you have issues

rap music is extremely influential everywhere, not just the states. rap music is all over the world. it's just so f*cking easy to acquire a gun in this great country of ours.

where else in the world can you shop for cereal and a 12 gauge pump action shotgun all in one store?

Yes on all accounts. To suggest that kids just up and STOP being impressionable is ludicrous. It's a part of growing up, emulating what you see on television. Asking kids to make a distinction is something they have to be taught by their PARENTS, who apparently aren't around if they let that kind of shit go on.

relax....I am African American...or Black..African American sounds too technically...I think Rap okay in small does...and I don't think anyone should try to live the thug life...but lately Rap became too much like WWE ya feel me white bro-tha man?

Originally posted by Mainstream
Rap for the most part supports the "thug life gangsta pimp f**k the police let's f**k some hoes we found in the club" type of life style. not cool boo boo. what would Jesus say? don't tell me he'd say crank that sh*t up homeboy...cuz I doubt that.

no, it doesn't support, it portrays. there's a big difference.

Originally posted by Draco69
You'd be surprised. Rap Music is EXTREMELY influential on black youth in America.

well..a lot of people that buy rap music is ur average white kid. but rap influences anyone who is willing to listen.
but its not only rap. all music and ALL media is influential.
and its obvious that a lot of things are portrayed badly in media.

a person jus must be smart enough to not follow everything that the media hypes as good or popular

Originally posted by Mainstream
rap music makes women seem like sex toys and makes being a drug dealer or a thug seem cool.....which it's not.

they are NOTHING but lyrics!!

now what? u listen green day then it will make u hate the united states?

The people who are influenced the most are white middle class suburbia, go figure

Actually the people who buy rap is African-American young males. After all the music is geared towards them. This influences their behavior dramatically. Many sociologists are puzzled over why this music has such a strong impact on a community's behavior.

Relax.....a lot of people take the shit...literally. I'm a linkin park man myself. I'm not into rap like I used to be..it's become too much like a cartoon or something. with all these Tom and Jerry beefs and all......ironically I"m a black guy talking against Rap...will wonders never sense...and people are living these thug life styles...real thugs wouldn't be rapping...they'd be capping. heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh (heh heh)

but what would you do? bann rap music?
there is NOTHING you can do...

Originally posted by Draco69
Actually the people who buy rap is African-American young males. After all the music is geared towards them. This influences their behavior dramatically. Many sociologists are puzzled over why this music has such a strong impact on a community's behavior.

'Actually' it may be geared towards them but they aint the only ones buying it

i also enjoy linkin park..i have all their cd's plus their unreleased tracks...

but i also love greenday, Jay-z, A-teens, and eminem
so what am i going to do? cut myself, hate america, talk to hookers, fall in love with her and then kill the hooker?
no. its music. its a way to relieve stress, express love, anger...its music. its a way of life.
if u follow it too closely u aren't aware of what ur doing

I see alot of white dudes that listen to rap...yet let a black dude like me listen to linkin park or Switchfoot and I'm "betraying my roots" or something

Originally posted by Mainstream
I see alot of white dudes that listen to rap...yet let a black dude like me listen to linkin park or Switchfoot and I'm "betraying my roots" or something

betraying your roots how? i never heard about kunta kinte rapping or malcolm x or martin luther. rap was not even around until maybe 25-30 years ago.

I know LInkin park and SF are considered white folks music...I live in the south...proms are still separate...I think a town about 30 miles from my town had their first mixed prom...way to step into the 21 century right.

Originally posted by IceWithin
but what would you do? bann rap music?
there is NOTHING you can do...

No. Just be aware of its ramifications on today's youth.

Originally posted by smoker4
'Actually' it may be geared towards them but they aint the only ones buying it

No. Actually black youth are the majority of rap buyers. The data is inaccurate because blacks are the minority and do not have as many people. But in percentage wise, blacks are the main costumers.

Originally posted by Mainstream
I see alot of white dudes that listen to rap...yet let a black dude like me listen to linkin park or Switchfoot and I'm "betraying my roots" or something

there a lot of stereo types for everone. i am mexican and since i don't listen to much tejano or any mexican music, other mexicans at my school think i am stupid and hate me jus for that reason.

Originally posted by gls
i also enjoy linkin park..i have all their cd's plus their unreleased tracks...

but i also love greenday, Jay-z, A-teens, and eminem
so what am i going to do? cut myself, hate america, talk to hookers, fall in love with her and then kill the hooker?
no. its music. its a way to relieve stress, express love, anger...its music. its a way of life.
if u follow it too closely u aren't aware of what ur doing

exactly....
hold... a-teens?

Originally posted by Draco69
No. Just be aware of its ramifications on today's youth.

well yeah but that wont change anything will it?

Originally posted by gls
there a lot of stereo types for everone. i am mexican and since i don't listen to much tejano or any mexican music, other mexicans at my school think i am stupid and hate me jus for that reason.

lol ure mexican friends have issues

and a lot of folks burn their shit too. well not thier shit...but you know what I mean.

Maybe. The Black community is already beginning to become antagonistic against rap music since it pictures them in such a degrading light.

Data? If you read what i said, they aint the only ones buying it! or maybe they are downloading it, also if thats the case how do you explain Eminem?

Originally posted by IceWithin
lol ure mexican friends have issues

they're not my friends.
and yes i listen to a-teens and s club and a lot of pop music. lately though i've been listining to a lot more trance...lemme put it this way. i have about 1620 songs on my comp. and its a lot of diff music

Eminem is popular because people want a white rapper. He appeals to their values and their misfortunes. Black rappers don't. A white surburban boy isn't gonna understand what the hell they are saying.

Eminem mommy and daddy loved each other very much......and 9 monthes after a very special meeting between the two of them Marsh was born.

nthin can be done

i listen to rock and rap

technically you can't ban rap...it's a freedom of speech.

Originally posted by Draco69
Eminem is popular because people want a white rapper. He appeals to their values and their misfortunes. Black rappers don't. A white surburban boy isn't gonna understand what the hell they are saying.

WHY the hell cant ppl simply accept it, eminem's GOOD, they always come up with reasons why he's famous!
he's a great raper, get over it

Originally posted by Draco69
Eminem is popular because people want a white rapper. He appeals to their values and their misfortunes. Black rappers don't. A white surburban boy isn't gonna understand what the hell they are saying.

Therefore there are a lot of white people buying rap albums as he is the biggest seller!

Eminem is VERY good. He's the most original rapper we've had since Tupac.

Personally I think that rap has lost its soul. It use to convey a message of poverty and hard times...now its all pimp juice and bitches who don't shut up.

you saying black people don't like M and M

They like him. For white boy.

Originally posted by Draco69
Eminem is VERY good. He's the most original rapper we've had since Tupac.

Personally I think that rap has lost its soul. It use to convey a message of poverty and hard times...now its all pimp juice and bitches who don't shut up.

Get away from the mainstream crap and listen to some underground hip hop, it's much better

heh heh heh heh.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/smoker4/lil-jonblinging.png

Exactly.

Yeeeeeeah!

Originally posted by Draco69
Eminem is VERY good. He's the most original rapper we've had since Tupac.

Personally I think that rap has lost its soul. It use to convey a message of poverty and hard times...now its all pimp juice and bitches who don't shut up.

the "bitches" who wont shut up, that'll be R&B

Nah! Have you heard Ludicrous?

no

but hey does rap EVER promote racism like "Yo! white ppl suck! oh yeah... uh huh they do"
ok my rapping sucks, but its the meaning what matters schmoll

Nah. He's on more of the lines like "MOVE B*TCH GET THE **** OUTTA WAY YOU STUPID ****ING WH***!" Nice guy.

ok, but does rap ever promoto racism?

From what I read, it portrays African-Americans as drug-dealers, pimps, whores, and generally bad people overall. Unfortunately this is the most popular media image of blacks. And to further this many young blacks are imitating this behavior by committing actual crimes and dressing like prostitutes. Go to downtown Bronx and you'll see what I mean.

to quote 50 cent song many men off his first album...." Quickly Them white cr@cka locked me up for a 100 years." I don't think he shouldn't gonna went and said that.

Originally posted by Draco69
From what I read, it portrays African-Americans as drug-dealers, pimps, whores, and generally bad people overall. Unfortunately this is the most popular media image of blacks. And to further this many young blacks are imitating this behavior by committing actual crimes and dressing like prostitutes. Go to downtown Bronx and you'll see what I mean.

I guess...

Originally posted by Mainstream
to quote 50 cent song many men off his first album...." Quickly Them white cr@cka locked me up for a 100 years." I don't think he shouldn't gonna went and said that.

I dont understand

50 cent used the team white kracka...offensive to white people...I'm sure Jay Z , 2pac (god rest his soul) and others have used it...it's a double standard....why isn't a black rapper can say that word..yet if a white person says the *drum roll please* it's on CNN?

I don't like rap music. I find it uninteresting. However, I'm glad there are people out there who like it, I'm glad they get pleasure from something. What is it to think that lyrics will drive the listener to acts of violence or racism? It's like saying that we shold never speak of the holocaust or other acts commited by the Nazis because it will inspire peple to do those things. I'm willing to bet that the guy that walks around dissin' his biatch and calling another white man a cracker has some real issues to begin with, despite what lyrics he listens to and repeats. I would say it isn't the music that inspires the mindset, but it is the music that profits from it.

Maybe crap - the mainstream stuff. But the underground stuff is all real.

Gangster rap isn't supposed to promote violence and crime as if it's something they enjoy doing, it was supposed to raise awareness of American on what goes on in the ghettos of the US and how crime and drugs are often the easiest way to go from rags to riches. It's sorta a way of showing what humans can be like when reduced to poverty yet teased with the fact that people are living lavishly only a couple miles away.

For the most part, early gangsta rap worked big time as far as America becoming more aware of what goes on in our cities. Thanks to artists from the early 90's like NWA and Mobb Deep and movies like Boyz in the Hood, "the ghetto" has become quite popular in American pop culture, to the point where it's often exaggerated these days. Nowadays you got guys like 50 cent.. that's not gangsta rap, that's pop rap. 50 is all about what all pop music has been about for a while, sex and drugs. The only difference is he has the added "thug" element.

Originally posted by MC Mike
Maybe crap - the mainstream stuff. But the underground stuff is all real.

I said exactly that and was ignored

Originally posted by Lana
Get away from the mainstream crap and listen to some underground hip hop, it's much better

Preach it sister.greenqueen

Go to the hip hop thread in the music forum to find real hip hop. Not trash like Eminem, 2 quarters and lil jon.

Underground rap is really no less violent then mainstream rap, it's just better for the most part. Hell, Necro says more ****ed up racist sexist violent shit then anybody in the mainstream.

I think that it's pretty racist to blame an entire genre of music that happens to have been started by african americans for cultural problems or the beliefs of some of it's performers (cough, cough, Sistah Soulja, Proffessor Griff, etc.).
People were saying the same thing in the earlier half of the century to try to ban jazz, blues, and rock n roll.

Rap music is sung, by the most part, by mental weaklings that love to glorify the basest parts of humanity.
Not only that
It is creativley void and is very raley innovative and offers nothing new 99 percent of the time. Its weak. And i think it propmotes the idea you can be an "artist" with reletivley no skill and no creative individuality.
Rap Music sucks!!!!

moviejunkie, that's just about every style of music, especially that swill that mtv unashamedly calls "punk rock" (yellow card, avril lavigne, spank 182, good charrlotte, green day, etc.)

i totaly agree with you darth jello
maybe i should say that just doesn't apply with rap but also other genres of music.
For instance Country, though it doesn't seem to be as dispicable in its content on the whole, is creativley stagnent.
Also rock these days, i have noticed allot of the rock bands have the exact same sound and lyrics and the guitar parts are almost unlistenable.
So yes I agree Jello, its just this topic has been mainly about rap music so i pointed out just rap music as it applied to the thread

Originally posted by Darth Jello
especially that swill that mtv unashamedly calls "punk rock" (yellow card, avril lavigne, spank 182, good charrlotte, green day, etc.)

I must admit that i really hate "mainstrea" rap such as 50cent and that crap, but i will admit i would rather listen to a 50cent song than a Good Charlotte song, 50cents songs are awful, but Good Charlotte just makes me angry.

But yeah, anyways, where i come from, all the little kids are influenced by rap music, my old college was put into special measures because of the unruly kids.

One ti pulme a little kid went all gangster andled a BB gun on the teacher, english version of SWAT team was called. i usually wouldnt blame that just on rap music, but if you looked at how he dressed and how he (attempted) to talk, you would notice very close similarities to famous "rapstars"

Originally posted by Lana
I said exactly that and was ignored

Yea I noticed. Trying to emphasize the point.

I'm Not a big Hip Hop fan, But They can rap about whatever they want to.

there is no such thing as a bad genre of music. the problem is that in every genre, truely good and talented musicians are few.

Not hip-hop. Rap. Mainstream rap at that. Ex. 50 cent, Ludicrous, Little John, All the Lil's, you get the idea.

Just to answer the question in regards to Rap promoting racism, well, when you're referencing to one another as "*******", sans the slang verbiage, well, regardless if it offends themselves, for a race that's supposedly trying to put those days behind them, it sure seems like they are ignorantly regressing, and for what?

As for "Hip Hop", a lot of underground stuff doesn't even have a message. It's just rhymed words nowadays. Long before the Hip Hop/Rap line was blurred in the mainstream, there were PLENTY of positive Hip Hop acts that had messages, i.e. Grandmaster Flash, RUN DMC, etc, etc.

Rap has de-evolved something fierce. A lot of times, when you see a rap artists video, it's just flaunting, taunting, and weaving stories and fairy tales. You HONESTLY think the guys in their videos can afford what they do by making $0.25 for every album they sell? Yeah, there are some perks from record companies, but these guys music isn't what sells, it's their image, and that's why they are so interchangable.
Everyone's from the ghetto, everyones "proud to have made it", yadda, yadda, yadda.

Rap "artists" are nothing more than shady opportunists who feel the need to share a tired old story to prove their credibility as tough guys, and who know that thanks to the scene, they can cash in on it.

They are the ****ing black Tony Robbins' of the music scene.

Saying "nigga" isn't only a rap thing, it isn't part of the hip hop culture it's part of black culture. It makes a lot of sense if you really think about it. Make the word taboo and it makes it more powerful. Use it often and you water down it's impact.

There is a lot of new emcee's with something to say, some underground some mainstream. If your mind isn't open and you aren't interested in what they have to say, it really makes no difference anyway. Someone who says it's just "rhymed words" isn't listening for a message in the first place, obviously. The irony behind calling underground rap "rhyme words" is that a lot of underground emcee's biggest downfall is their lack of good rhyme schemes.

Give me a break with that "image" argument. That has nothing to do with rap, that's popular music in general. Like that's any different then the depressed image little teen rockers like linkin park portray to get their fans to "identify" with them and even idolize them? Like it's some coincidence that almost all major pop singers dress themselves like sex objects?

There are a lot of rappers I like that I've never even seen a picture of.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
Rap music is sung, by the most part, by mental weaklings that love to glorify the basest parts of humanity.
Not only that
It is creativley void and is very raley innovative and offers nothing new 99 percent of the time. Its weak. And i think it propmotes the idea you can be an "artist" with reletivley no skill and no creative individuality.
Rap Music sucks!!!! No skill? No creativity? Nah, that's bullshit. I won't get into why it's bullshit unless you really want me to, just know that it is.

Originally posted by Lana
I'll do it and save him the time....

Rap is not a genre. Rap is a verb. Hip hop is a genre. Not rap. Rap is not a genre. Rap is a verb. Hip hop is a genre. Not rap. Rap is not a genre. Rap is a verb. Hip hop is a genre. Not rap. Rap is not a genre. Rap is a verb. Hip hop is a genre. Not rap. Rap is not a genre. Rap is a verb. Hip hop is a genre. Not rap. Rap is not a genre. Rap is a verb. Hip hop is a genre. Not rap.



Thank you, Lana.... *sigh of relief*


MovieJunkie > I'm pretty sure your mind is made up, but I'll speak my piece anyways. The level of creativity and brainwork that goes into good hip-hop dwarfs all other genres. If it's politically motivated the ideas and opinions come at you rapid-fire leaving you with much more to think about. If it's just about "word-play", you can hardly touch hip-hop in cleverness or clarity of expression. And to say that this type of music simply promotes sexism, violence, and racism, means you haven't taken the time to find quality work. There's bad music in every genre... I go out of my way to find GOOD MUSIC.

... even in country and western... ... (Willy Nelson & Johnny Cash)

Cinemaddiction > There are tons of hip-hop artists that have a deep love for music, community, and a statement on the state of the world. If it comes out angry and jaded at times, you should listen to the meaning and feeling behind the words. Alot of times it's all about the frustration of being poor, suppressed, and forgotten about. Many times it's the only OPPORTUNITY that they see is available or respected. So if they grab that OPPORTUNITY and run with it, how can you be mad at them?

Originally posted by Darth Jello
moviejunkie, that's just about every style of music, especially that swill that mtv unashamedly calls "punk rock" (yellow card, avril lavigne, spank 182, good charrlotte, green day, etc.)

well I agree about blink, but green day's punk...me thinks
but comparing AVRIL LAVINGE to green day? nahuh


and lana and MCmike, I very much dislike underground hiphop... I dunno why but I enjoy listening 50 cents, Dr Dre, Eminem, etc.
but when I listen to underground hiphop... I dunno Im not interested in it

Rap music is really good in my opinion. I have no bad things against it. I mean it doesnt inspire me or anything.

Jurrasic 5 kick 50cent in the face, then piss on him whilst he cowers in pain on the floor.

What i meant to say is there music is far superior

Originally posted by leonheartmm
even though this is gonna make me seem very narrow minded and conservative{which im definately NOT}, i will have to completely agree with the statement.

Some rapes does included alot of talk on sexs vilence and that sort of thing but not all of them do.And just because they do does not mean we the listeners have to go do it just because we heard them talking about it.JM

Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
Some rapes does included alot of talk on sexs vilence and that sort of thing

Yes, most rapes do!

lol i was going to point that out, but didnt have the heart to!

Originally posted by D-Double
The level of creativity and brainwork that goes into good hip-hop dwarfs all other genres.


What a fricken' ridiculous statement that is! Pure an utter bullsh*t.

So am I to believe that Dr. Dre's creativity and musical acumen far exceed that of Bach's or Brahms'? Forget Muddy Waters or B.B. King, Missy Elliot is a musical wonder compared to their catalogue. Why listen to Dave Evans or Stevie Ray Vaughn on the guitar when you can listen to that creative genius that dwarfs them known as Eminem?

You should have followed your exceedingly flawed statement with "IMHO" or some other caveat that did not end up making you look like a completely biased and misinformed fool.

As for Jackie's statement, I just shake my head and weep.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Why listen to Dave Evans or Stevie Ray Vaughn on the guitar when you can listen to that creative genius that dwarfs them known as Eminem?

Don't forget the human beatbox. Pure Genius!

Originally posted by KharmaDog
As for Jackie's statement, I just shake my head and weep.
Kharma, you must cry a lot.

Originally posted by botankus

Kharma, you must cry a lot.

Since frequenting this board I seem to cry daily. Anyone have a tissue?

Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
Some rapes does included alot of talk on sexs vilence and that sort of thing but not all of them do.And just because they do does not mean we the listeners have to go do it just because we heard them talking about it.JM
OH - MY - GAWD

finally something we both agree on!

A) Eminem is shit. He's been shit since the Marshall Mathers EP. If you're about to try and debate pro-Eminem, I'd advise against it.

B) Hip Hop is great if it's done right. Which no mainstream artist seems to be able to grasp in today's world. There are many underground Hip Hop artists making great contributions to music.

Originally posted by D-Double
The level of creativity and brainwork that goes into good hip-hop dwarfs all other genres. If it's politically motivated the ideas and opinions come at you rapid-fire leaving you with much more to think about. If it's just about "word-play", you can hardly touch hip-hop in cleverness or clarity of expression.

C) HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.

Zack De La Rocha is the best Hip Hop lyricist to ever live (or certainly top 3) and he trails most great Rock lyricists by a long long long way.

No Hip Hop creativity is gonna match a band of great musicians.

As far as "cleverness" and clarity of expression. There's more of that in one Tool song than any Hip Hop ever.

-AC

You had me until you said Zack was the best hip hop lyricist. He's a great lyricist, but not the best at making rap lyrics. His lyrics are much better if you judge them as rock lyrics rather then if you judge them as rap lyrics, really. He doesn't write rap, he writes rock. Half the time his lyrics don't rhyme and when they do it's only on the end of a bar. The whole thing that seperates rap lyrics from all other lyrics is the fact that they rhyme, flow nicely to a beat, and stress on things like wordplay, punchlines, metaphors, etc. If I was to judge his lyrics as rap lyrics they wouldn't be very high on the list to be honest.

How do you "write" by genre? Bit of a riduclous statement.

They wouldn't be very high on your list? Well it's lucky that I said they would be on mine, in my post then isn't it?

He writes lyrics and he raps them, so I put him against other people who write and rap their lyrics. Is that ok? The fact that he doesn't do it traditionally doesn't mean you can say he doesn't "write" Hip Hop, then be a hypocrite and say he "writes" Rock.

Apparantly alot of Hip Hop legends think he's Hip Hop. You gonna argue against KRS-One and Chuck D? Coz be my guest.

-AC

i grew up around rap and the shit you hear on tv shouldnt even be placed in the rap catagory..all that jiggy shit is wack..if anything uptight white ppl get offended by it cuz there scared....any one stupid enough to believe that music can influence your lifestlye that much is a moron..its music ppl!! You dance to it...you lttle kids on here really need to grow up once you step into the real world youlll realize the music you listen doesnt dictate you....stopp blaming music and start blaming the president who lies to the nation...just an idea

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How do you "write" by genre? Bit of a riduclous statement.

They wouldn't be very high on your list? Well it's lucky that I said they would be on mine, in my post then isn't it?

He writes lyrics and he raps them, so I put him against other people who write and rap their lyrics. Is that ok? The fact that he doesn't do it traditionally doesn't mean you can say he doesn't "write" Hip Hop, then be a hypocrite and say he "writes" Rock.

Apparantly alot of Hip Hop legends think he's Hip Hop. You gonna argue against KRS-One and Chuck D? Coz be my guest.

-AC I just told you what the difference is between rap lyrics and rock lyrics. It's very easy to tell (good) rap lyrics from rock lyrics, just from the rhyme schemes alone. Rock lyrics you can state what you are talking about without really having to worry about complex rhyme schemes and flow, rap you can't (without sounding bad).

Zack rap's his lyrics to rock instrumentals. He is "rapping" in the sense that he isn't singing, but that still isn't hip hop music. If he were to try to rap that way to a hip hop beat it would sound terrible. Too many syllables in a bar, lack of rhymes, no flow... those are rock lyrics. They are great rock lyrics, but rock lyrics nonetheless.

No, I'm pretty sure that's just a style of Hip Hop rhyming, not a requirement to be classed as Hip Hop lyricist, members of Wu-Tang Clan often didn't flow or rhyme, they're not Hip Hop? Or their style just didn't employ that?

I never said Rage were Hip Hop, I said Zack is a rapper. When did this become about the music he rhymed to? I just stated that he was the best Hip Hop lyricist because believe it or not, I believe him to be. Most of Evil Empire has heavy Hip Hop-esque drums and bass, as does The Battle of LA. Have you heard Mic Check? That song is more Hip Hop than most Hip Hop. Just because the music is by a band not a computer, doesn't mean they couldn't do Hip Hop.

IF he were to try and rap that way to Hip Hop? Well well well, I suppose I was imagining his songs with DJ Shadow, KRS-One, Dilated Peoples and Saul Williams then was I?

No, they're not Rock lyrics. They're lyrics rhymed while the band play Rock music. The very fact that he's rhyming puts him closer to Hip Hop than Rock.

-AC

Hardly rhyming at all and disregarding the number of syllables in a bar is a style of rhyming? It's a very simple and akward style of rhyming then. I'd like to know what work from the Wu Tang you're referring to before I can comment. They may experiment here and there, but most of their songs do follow the patterns of hip hop lyricism.

The music he rhymes to matters because rock instrumentals allow for less rhymes, stretched bars, etc. You have a right to think he's the best hip hop lyricist, all I did was disagree. It's not the fact that they play live instruments it's that their instrumentals are much closer to rock then hip hop so of course rhyming over them and rhyming over a looped beat is going to create two totally different styles of lyrics.

He has done a few rap songs but I assumed you were going off the majority of his work and not a couple odd songs when you called him the "best hip hop lyricist to ever live."

Masta Killa hardly ever rhymes, neither does Cappadonna. GZA in his early days was very irregular.

Depends how you define Rock though. Zack isn't gonna be able to drop a freestyle over something created by Opeth. Rage were more than capable of creating Hip Hop, have you heard the Renegades album? Have you seen the live collabo they did with Cypress Hill? The fact that they can make heavy Rock doesn't mean they can't make Hip Hop, they have...and Zack has rhymed on it. I class that as more Hip Hop.

-AC

Renegades was really close to hip hop and wasn't purely rock, you're right about that.. it's the closest thing Rage has to a hip hop album. I guess if you wanted to, you could classify some of those as hip hop lyrics. They still aren't purely hip hop in my book, but it's a difference of opinion.

I wasn't aware that you were judging off one album. I don't see how one album can qualify someone as the best to ever live, but whatever. Really, I prefer the lyrics on their self titled album to Renegades.

"MovieJunkie > I'm pretty sure your mind is made up, but I'll speak my piece anyways. The level of creativity and brainwork that goes into good hip-hop dwarfs all other genres. If it's politically motivated the ideas and opinions come at you rapid-fire leaving you with much more to think about. If it's just about "word-play", you can hardly touch hip-hop in cleverness or clarity of expression. And to say that this type of music simply promotes sexism, violence, and racism, means you haven't taken the time to find quality work. There's bad music in every genre... I go out of my way to find GOOD MUSIC."

Common man the level of "brain work"? Almost all the content is the same a good 90 percent of it. Its not very difficult you reprat themes that have been repeated 100 different times before. Its also a testement to how devoid the creative process is when you listen to the background music of these songs. Do this for me. This will be a fun experiment of what makes a rap song's background music. Really don't be embarrassed do this out loud and tell me how it sounds. Make two fart sounds and then follow up the two fart sounds with two crow caws. Now after you make the two fart sounds again follow that up with one longer more shrill crow caw. Now repeat the farts and follow them up with the initial two crow caws. Do this for five minutes and tell me wether your bored or not, because that exactly what rap music is doing in my head accomponied by a guy that sounds like he is speaking in tongues about how he likes naked broads and likes to drink booze and he is the best in the game and he has a bullet proof car and he carries a pistol and he gotttzzz one mads crew, son! Common man this isn't a sign of intelleigence this is a sign of a ex gang member ignorant crack dealer who would probably have a difficult time reading and comprehending RL Stines Goosebumps series that found a loop whole in the american system and now makes a fortune by rapping about how much of a degenerate he is.
But I am talking in broad terms I do agree you can find some pearls in almost every genre like you said about cash for country. I agree with that.

No, that is incorrect moviejunkie. Yes, there are shit artists in rap music but they do not take up 90% of the genre, maybe the 90% you've been exposed to but with all the hip hop I listen to, I can name at least two good artists for every shitty artist I've heard. Guys like Chingy and 50 Cent are really the lowest standard of rap there is.

It takes a lot more effort to write rap lyrics then you think. Not only do you have to try to convey your message clearly, you also have to make it rhyme consistently, flow nice, and if you really want rap fans to like your music, you also have to pack it with literary devices like metaphors, punchlines, multi syllable rhymes, inner-bar patterns, the works. Only rap fans pick up on this stuff because rap is the only genre where artists go out of their way to perfect these techniques. You have guys who are primarily punchline rappers and their whole songs are revolved around good punchlines. I haven't found this in any other genre. I'm not saying it doesn't exist in any other genre, but I've yet to see it.

The "background music" is called production and it can be very good in some cases, for proof check out guys like De La Soul. Prince Paul is a genius. Now it can't compare to rock's background music of course, because a DJ just simply isn't going to match the talent and detail that goes into a band full of musicians with specific instruments, but good hip hop producers do what they are meant to do perfectly, and that's provide a good beat for the rapper to rap over. It can't be too elaborate or complex or it will draw attention away from the lyrics.

Good rap lyrics are highly technical, more so then any other type of lyrics I've seen. So in rap really the instrumentals are meant just to compliment the lyrics, while in rock the lyrics are meant to compliment the instrumentals most of the time.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
"MovieJunkie > I'm pretty sure your mind is made up, but I'll speak my piece anyways. The level of creativity and brainwork that goes into good hip-hop dwarfs all other genres. If it's politically motivated the ideas and opinions come at you rapid-fire leaving you with much more to think about. If it's just about "word-play", you can hardly touch hip-hop in cleverness or clarity of expression. And to say that this type of music simply promotes sexism, violence, and racism, means you haven't taken the time to find quality work. There's bad music in every genre... I go out of my way to find GOOD MUSIC."

Common man the level of "brain work"? Almost all the content is the same a good 90 percent of it. Its not very difficult you reprat themes that have been repeated 100 different times before. Its also a testement to how devoid the creative process is when you listen to the background music of these songs. Do this for me. This will be a fun experiment of what makes a rap song's background music. Really don't be embarrassed do this out loud and tell me how it sounds. Make two fart sounds and then follow up the two fart sounds with two crow caws. Now after you make the two fart sounds again follow that up with one longer more shrill crow caw. Now repeat the farts and follow them up with the initial two crow caws. Do this for five minutes and tell me wether your bored or not, because that exactly what rap music is doing in my head accomponied by a guy that sounds like he is speaking in tongues about how he likes naked broads and likes to drink booze and he is the best in the game and he has a bullet proof car and he carries a pistol and he gotttzzz one mads crew, son! Common man this isn't a sign of intelleigence this is a sign of a ex gang member ignorant crack dealer who would probably have a difficult time reading and comprehending RL Stines Goosebumps series that found a loop whole in the american system and now makes a fortune by rapping about how much of a degenerate he is.
But I am talking in broad terms I do agree you can find some pearls in almost every genre like you said about cash for country. I agree with that.

not true. not all rap is about crap i don't care about.
if u would listen to a more variety of the genre then u'd find some good artists.
which goes with EVERY genre of music, film, books,--- entertainment in general. theres always the crap that people like for some strange reason, but there is the good ones

Here are some emcees to check out for those who think Hip-Hop (or Rap as you dont seem to know the difference) is all about guns, hoes, bling bling and pimps:
Blackalicious, Jurrasic 5, Mr Lif, Akrobatik, Aesop Rock, Sage Francis, The Roots, Brother Ali, Eyedea and Lyrics Born. That should put you on the right track. If you cant be bothered to listen to some of the more uplifting hip-hop then you have to expect those that do to jump in when such naive statements are being thrown around. Here are some lyrics from Blackalicious that prove there is more to hip-hop than negativity.

Blackalicious - Shallow days:


Time and time, a brother asks why
The rhyme is not laced with a gangsta touch
I said "Simply because I don't live that way
Still kickin' them rhymes rugged and rough"
"But that won't sell,
cause you gotta keep it real
so that we can feel
where you're coming from
Because these streets is ill so if you ain't
killing niggas in rhymes
your whole sound's just bubble gum"
I said "I won't contribute to genocide;
I'd rather try to cultivate the inner side
and try to evolve the frustrated ghetto mind
The devil and his army never been a friend of mine"
"But niggas don't wanna hear that shit" said the brother
Who was obviously totally misled and yelled out
"murder murder, kill, murder" instilled in the influential
walls of our kids' heads

Shallow days, you never wanna
Let a brother be a brother
Fully inner to the outer
Caught up in all them hollow nights
Can't escape cause everywhere that I look
People front, and it just ain't right

I said "Don't you know the powers that be
are using people as pawns, devouring we
until they see us all gone and outta the scene"
And as I passed the chronic, he said "look at where I be,
I tried to get a job for real,
but all the homies hit licks and rob and steal
and keep fat pockets caught in a rut to catch ground
this way's in, plus who could you trust?"
I said "I'm all about protecting mine,
but neglecting minds for getting left behind.
Why don't you change your environment?"
He said "This is all I know,
plus my fam's all that I got, I can't go"
I said "You gotta make it for the fams"
"Damn," he said "I didn't make the ghetto,
The ghetto made the man"
I said "You're more than just that,"
Shook his hand, said "Damn, you gotta find a way
To break the devil's master plan, peace"

Shallow days, you never wanna
Let a brother be a brother
Fully inner to the outer
Caught up in all them hollow nights
Can't escape cause everywhere that I look
People front, and it just ain't right

The word "peace" is just an expression
Used to say bye when it's time to jet
And them red black and green medallions
Was all just part of the trend, I guess
Hardly ever them around brothers' necks no more
Instead of that gold and gats
Inspiring gangstas and macks
Who at the young age of four
Be seeing more drama than war veterans
Instead of learning God's laws
And hip-hop is a voice that we enlist that
To express how we be feeling about this and that
But music does reflect life
And kids look up to what you're portraying
And mimic what you act like
It's time for a new day
An era in rap, conscious styles,
Makin' them aware of the happenings
But their ears seem more steered towards
Self-annihilation so then they might laugh
And write this off, like I'm out here just
Blowing wind, maybe label us soft or unreal,
Something they just can't feel, while they yell
"murder murder murder, kill kill kill"

I can't stand that hip-hop, rap, mainstream, underground or whatever they hell you guys call it nowadays. It all sounds the same to me. Do I think it promotes Racism, Sexism and Violence? Some of it might express those things, but promoted? No, I don't think it does. Is not Tupac's or Snoop Dogg fault some idiot listen to their music and they go out there and shoot people. The blame belongs to the criminal not their taste in music. Sorry it just doesn't work like that.

Hip-Hop as a culture(please, don't fool yourself.) and as a business is full of trendy folks and pretenders.
White kids pretending to be black, black kids pretending to be thugs, thugs pretending to be relevant.

Zack probably wouldn't be considered a "pure" rapper by most hip-hop purest, but neither would Tupac.
Of course, "purests" wouldn't admit it, because he's their golden boy.
Believe me, dude was not that good. Same flow, over and over.
"DA da da da da da DA DA- DA da da da da da DA DA"


I had to stop reading after the "The level of creativity and brainwork that goes into good hip-hop dwarfs all other genres."
That was seriously just a jaded and ignorant remark. Not really worth this responce, but I'm a nice guy.

Don't let yourself be fooled into "oh its my culture!".....BULLSHIT it's a damn business....and obviously its ploy worked on a few.

Anyone who has Tupac as their golden boy as you put it doesnt know about the decent hip hop out there. If you're referring to mainstream hip hop then i'm inclined to agree with you, but as with all other genres of music there are plenty of talented artists that dont fall into the categories you described:

Originally posted by long pig
White kids pretending to be black, black kids pretending to be thugs, thugs pretending to be relevant.

I was mentioning the so-called "culture" in itself.

But I get what you're saying, and I've heard it hundreds of times, it's been regurgitated repeatedly by fans and others to defend Hip-Hop.
Yes, you can find exceptions to anything, Hip-Hop is no different.
I can find you a silver penny, you can find me an extremely talented(or out of catogory) group of rappers.







Most rappers shout this kids name out like they would turn for him.
He IS the golden boy of Hip-Hop, no rapper is allowed to diss him openly or fear for getting called a "lame", NAS is a close second(but he actually is...sorry...was damned talented!).

It's harder to get a rapper to admit Tupac had little rapping talent than it is to get a rocker to admit Kurt Cobain couldn't sing.

Oh yeah, you're right, it's just a damn business. Do you think Afrika Bambaataa or Kool Herc actually gave a damn about the "culture"?! Hell no, they were all about the $$$.

As for Eminem imo, Infinite had great ryhmes and horrible beats.
SSLP has good ryhmes and great beats. The rest of his work is just pop music, not hip-hop at all.

That's just my opinion.

Draco, as for you saying whites don't buy the majority of hip-hop music, that's wrong.
You even said something like(not quoted) "it would be right if blacks were not the minority"......sure it WOULD but its NOT.
Whites buy the majority of hip-hop, always have and probably always will.
Do they listen to Hip-Hop more? Yes.
Do they, by comparison base their lives around it and call it culture? NO.

Music in any form is fine, violent or satanic (as for the guy who said he didn't know of any satanic type rappers try "666 mafia" or homophobic it's fine....but when you start calling it culture it becomes a bain on other existance and causes trouble.

Rap doesn't promote anything or cause any trouble, hip-hop culture on the otherhad by in large does.

Originally posted by long pig
I was mentioning the so-called "culture" in itself.

But I get what you're saying, and I've heard it hundreds of times, it's been regurgitated repeatedly by fans and others to defend Hip-Hop.
Yes, you can find exceptions to anything, Hip-Hop is no different.
I can find you a silver penny, you can find me an extremely talented(or out of catogory) group of rappers.

Most rappers shout this kids name out like they would turn for him.
He IS the golden boy of Hip-Hop, no rapper is allowed to diss him openly or fear for getting called a "lame", NAS is a close second(but he actually is...sorry...was damned talented!).

It's harder to get a rapper to admit Tupac had little rapping talent than it is to get a rocker to admit Kurt Cobain couldn't sing.

I get what you're saying about 2-Pac but i've never liked his music so i personally dont think he is the be all and end all when it comes to hip hop. Alot of emcees do, I cant change that i'm only putting my views forward here. Im curious to know if you have taken the time to listen to any of the artists i listed above, if you have and still feel the same way then i would respect your opinion more. I wouldnt insult people who like rock music by using bands like Good Charlotte or Sum 41 to define the whole genre. They are merely the ones that are shown on TV more, which has nothing to do with how good they are.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Oh yeah, you're right, it's just a damn business. Do you think Afrika Bambaataa or Kool Herc actually gave a damn about the "culture"?! Hell no, they were all about the $$$.
When Afrika Bambaataa and the Zulu nation ripped off "planet rock" do you think he was saying "wow, this is great for my culture!"??
Hell no, he was saying "wow, this is great for my wallet....lets go buy more shiney clothes!".
Please.
Kool Herc? He was a crack fiend for a minute, probably whored his "culture" out for a rock.

Back then all hip hop was ripping off other songs, all they used were two turntables.. Planet Rock was revolutionary for hip hop, it was the first hip hop song of it's kind.

Yeah because everyone knows he made a huge profit from doing parties in the park, right? Please man.. Ray Charles was a dope fiend, you wanna say all his music was just for drug money too?

Originally posted by koolruningz
I get what you're saying about 2-Pac but i've never liked his music so i personally dont think he is the be all and end all when it comes to hip hop. Alot of emcees do, I cant change that i'm only putting my views forward here. Im curious to know if you have taken the time to listen to any of the artists i listed above, if you have and still feel the same way then i would respect your opinion more. I wouldnt insult people who like rock music by using bands like Good Charlotte or Sum 41 to define the whole genre. They are merely the ones that are shown on TV more, which has nothing to do with how good they are.

I understand what you're saying, and if you are part of that exception then I have great respect for you and your music.
99.99% aren't of that exception, so don't take offense to what I say if you are, because it wasn't meant toward you.


Have I listened to your picks one by one? No, of course not.
I've heard a few before and I came to the conclusion that the rest are basically the same conscious rappers with old styles. Not a bad thing, thats the best compliment I can give about rap.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Back then all hip hop was ripping off other songs, all they used were two turntables.. Planet Rock was revolutionary for hip hop, it was the first hip hop song of it's kind.

Yeah because everyone knows he made a huge profit from doing parties in the park, right? Please man.. Ray Charles was a dope fiend, you wanna say all his music was just for drug money too?

Afrika B is a millionaire. Case closed.
He did it for the fame and fun and money back then as he does now. It's not culture it's fun music to dance to.

Did Ray do ALL his music for dope money? No
Did he do some of it? Yes, and he admitted it.
Did he say "I really dissapointed my r & b culture by doing this meth"
NO
He said "I dissapointed myself by getting off track"
My point is that it's the so called culture that is doing the damage.

When you call a music business/style "Culture" you send young generations the wrong message by making them think they have to follow it like a real Culture.
It's not a religion man, it's music.
This is where the damage is from.

Just out of interest what sort of music do you like? I get the impression that you maybe used to listen to hip hop and tuned out when the pop rap started to materialise. Am i way off here?

Oh I see.. so millionaire + made music = sellout no matter what right? Bullshit.

What do you mean it's just music? We're talking about hip hop culture right, and not just rap music? Hip hop is a culture because the forms of hip hop art go beyond just music. If you know who Kool Herc is and you know about Zulu nation I know damn well you know about the 4 forms of hip hop, so why are you cutting out the other two non musical forms of hip hop art?

Of course I do, and you hit it on the head, it's art....not culture.

dance=art
taggin=art

How am I wrong?
When a rock kid shows you his tat's and how he mosh's, do you think of it as his culture? I look at them with the same bewilderment as I do a backpacker digging through my pops recordstore telling me his art is culture.
I can't possibly consider it culture when it's all driven by some mixture of money/fun/fame.

Kool, you're definatly on target, I took gangsta rap as a personal insult back when I was hiding the best records in the store from other kids back in the day.
If I somehow dissed hiphop music as a whole it wasn't my intent.
Music is what I do. I love it.
But when you call something as radical as hiphop culture young kids will think they will need to fullfill rappers words by acting on them to become the culture more, snoop ain't culture, eminem ain't culture none of these are culturists. They are music makers. Thats why I was agreeing that so called hip-hop culture can be Offensive Promoting Racism, Sexism and Violence. Rap is not Offensive Promoting Racism, Sexism and Violence IMO.

What do you consider "culture," if not the way one acts, speaks, dresses, and expresses themselves? Like it or not, hip hop as a whole does have a large culture that comes with the package. Not saying you have to dress a certain way to enjoy it or speak a certain way, I don't. But there definitely is a hip hop style of dress, slang, etc. These are all parts of a culture.

The way one acts, speaks, dresses, and expresses themselves are parts of culture, but whats missing is the most important parts of culture, such as rules and common code of ethics.
With no rules you have no culture.

If or when later on down the road Hip-Hop becomes more mature and actually takes responsibility for certian actions, and THEN makes rules known to everyone not just certain exceptions....then I would call it culture. Hell, I'd be happy to call it culture.

But right now, it's too young and too material and way too immature to be culture. You can call it art for sure.

Of course it's art. That's only half the story though, any random Britney Spears song could be called art. It's at least a subculture, because it does influence people outside of just music/art.

No rules no culture? I don't know what you're expecting, it sounds like you're looking for an organized Religion rather than a culture. I understand what you're saying, but I think calling hip hop "art" is an understatement. Whether mature or immature, there is a whole lot more that comes with a genre of music then just the music.

Originally posted by long pig
Hip-Hop as a culture(please, don't fool yourself.) and as a business is full of trendy folks and pretenders.


I live hip-hop and I am hip-hop. If you had any idea what you were talking about you'd know that it goes much deeper than just business. It's art, poetry, fashion, music, dance, a language, a business, and oppurtunity.

If you judge every culture by stereotypes portrayed on T.V. and the posers down at your local mall, you're missing out on the heart of things. Every culture has pretenders and trends. Try to look deeper.

Originally posted by long pig
Kool, you're definatly on target, I took gangsta rap as a personal insult back when I was hiding the best records in the store from other kids back in the day.
If I somehow dissed hiphop music as a whole it wasn't my intent.
Music is what I do. I love it.

The first few "gangsta" groups that came out in the late 80's early 90's i liked, such as Ice-T, NWA and a bit later when Cube went solo. But to me it seemed alot different than now, nowadays they seem to be churning them off the production line complete with gold teeth, Mr T type chains and hundreds of "hoes". It unfortunately sells right now and these clones dont care about making music that has meaning, they only care about lining their own pockets. All this is making it harder for hip hop to be taken seriously as an art form.

Gangsta rap is always to be taken with a grain of salt. For hip hop purests of the 70's and 80's, it will seem like a talentless bastard child of hip hop that is nothing more then filth in the form of music. But if you listen to the undertones in the songs, they almost always had a message. They may be talking about drive bys and violent acts, but at the same time you can get the message that they are saying that it shouldn't be like this. It's the added dose of realism that really makes people think about what's wrong with life in the "hood."

I liked the early gangsta rap from the 90's but what sucks about it is they paved the way for the material rappers that would follow and take the "thug" attitude while leaving the message behind.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
"MovieJunkie > I'm pretty sure your mind is made up, but I'll speak my piece anyways. The level of creativity and brainwork that goes into good hip-hop dwarfs all other genres. If it's politically motivated the ideas and opinions come at you rapid-fire leaving you with much more to think about. If it's just about "word-play", you can hardly touch hip-hop in cleverness or clarity of expression. And to say that this type of music simply promotes sexism, violence, and racism, means you haven't taken the time to find quality work. There's bad music in every genre... I go out of my way to find GOOD MUSIC."

Common man the level of "brain work"? Almost all the content is the same a good 90 percent of it. Its not very difficult you reprat themes that have been repeated 100 different times before. Its also a testement to how devoid the creative process is when you listen to the background music of these songs. Do this for me. This will be a fun experiment of what makes a rap song's background music. Really don't be embarrassed do this out loud and tell me how it sounds. Make two fart sounds and then follow up the two fart sounds with two crow caws. Now after you make the two fart sounds again follow that up with one longer more shrill crow caw. Now repeat the farts and follow them up with the initial two crow caws. Do this for five minutes and tell me wether your bored or not, because that exactly what rap music is doing in my head accomponied by a guy that sounds like he is speaking in tongues about how he likes naked broads and likes to drink booze and he is the best in the game and he has a bullet proof car and he carries a pistol and he gotttzzz one mads crew, son! Common man this isn't a sign of intelleigence this is a sign of a ex gang member ignorant crack dealer who would probably have a difficult time reading and comprehending RL Stines Goosebumps series that found a loop whole in the american system and now makes a fortune by rapping about how much of a degenerate he is.
But I am talking in broad terms I do agree you can find some pearls in almost every genre like you said about cash for country. I agree with that.

Actually, if you do a little looking rather than sitting on your ass bitching about how much hip hop sucks, you'll find that you've got it backwards. You are right that there are some unbelievably stupid songs and rappers out there. However, the huge majority is not quite so shitty. The reason being that the huge majority is underground or indie, and to make it as an underground artist, you generally can't suck entirely. A lot of really terrible mainstream rappers only start being really terrible when they hit it big and their record company tells them that they need to be dumbasses to sell records.

Anyways, I will proceed to make what is now a much clicheed move on KMC and other forums. I am going to post some REAL, LIVE hip hop lyrics to prove that there's plenty of good stuff out there. I don't think I can really prove right now that the good songs are not "gems" as you put it, but are equally as, if not more prevalent than the shit. And remember, if you don't read the lyrics, but still generalize hip hop as "I got bling bling, come here and suck my cock *****" bullshit, you will prove that your argument is totally invalid.

Atmosphere- Trying to Find a Balance

They love the taste of blood
Now I don't know what that means, but I know that I mean it
Maybe they're as evil as they seem
Or maybe I only look out the window when it's scenic
"Atmosphere finally made a good record."
Yeah right, that shit almost sounds convincing
The last time I felt as sick and contradictive as this
Was the last time we played a show in Cinnci'
"Get real." they tell me
If only they knew how real this life really gets
They would stop acting like a silly *****
They would respect the cock whether or not they believed in it
Doesn't take much and that's messed up
Because these people do a lot of simple shit to impress us
While everyone was trying to out-do the last man
I was just a ghost trying to catch someone's Pac-man
Hello ma'am, would you be interested
In some sexual positions and emotional investments
See, I'm not insane, in fact I'm kind of rational
When I be askin', "Yo, where did all the passion go?"
East coast, West coast, down South, Midwest
Nowadays everybody knows how to get fresh
Somebody give me a big yes (YES!)
God Bless America, but she stole the B from "Bless"
Now I'm too ****ed up to dance
So I'ma sit with my hand down the front of my pants
You can't achieve your goals if you don't take that chance
So go pry open that trunk and get those amps


In the days of Kings and Queens I was a jester
Treat me like a God, oh they treat me like a leper
You see me move back and forth between both
I'm trying to find a balance
I'm trying to build a balance


So now I keep a close eye on my pets
Because they make most of their moves off of instinct and sense
It's eat, sleep, **** and self defense
So straight you can set your clocks and place bets
Wait, let's prey on blind, deaf, dumb, dead
Hustle, maybe a couple will love what you said
Emcees drag their feet across a big naked land
With an empty bag of seed and a fake shake of hands
Yeah I got some last words, **** ALL OF YA'LL!
Stop writin' raps and go play volleyball
Gotta journey the world in a hurry
Cause my attorney didn't put enough girls on the jury
Guilty of droppin' these bombs in the city
But I'm innocent, love is the motive that's why you're killin 'em
Guilty of settin' my fire in all fifty
But I'm innocent, blame it on my equilibrium


In the days of Kings and Queens I was a jester
Treat me like a God, oh they treat me like a leper
You see me move back and forth between both
I'm trying to find a balance
I'm trying to build a balance

I gotta find my balance
I gotta find my balance


Now all my friends are famous
It's either one thing or another
They all don't know what my name is
Probably know both of my brothers
The one is a hard workin' savior
The other's a hard workin' soldier
I'm just your next door neighbor
Workin' hard at tryin' to stay sober
You wait for the car at the corner
Pretend like you know what the pot is
Won't quit till I hit California
And make you my Golden State goddess

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Gangsta rap is always to be taken with a grain of salt. For hip hop purests of the 70's and 80's, it will seem like a talentless bastard child of hip hop that is nothing more then filth in the form of music. But if you listen to the undertones in the songs, they almost always had a message. They may be talking about drive bys and violent acts, but at the same time you can get the message that they are saying that it shouldn't be like this. It's the added dose of realism that really makes people think about what's wrong with life in the "hood."

I liked the early gangsta rap from the 90's but what sucks about it is they paved the way for the material rappers that would follow and take the "thug" attitude while leaving the message behind.


Yeah I agree, you could hardly put "Amerikkkas Most Wanted" in the same category as "Get rich or die trying" although the "uneducated" wouldnt see the difference.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23


Common man the level of "brain work"? Almost all the content is the same a good 90 percent of it. Its not very difficult you reprat themes that have been repeated 100 different times before. Its also a testement to how devoid the creative process is when you listen to the background music of these songs. Do this for me. This will be a fun experiment of what makes a rap song's background music. Really don't be embarrassed do this out loud and tell me how it sounds. Make two fart sounds and then follow up the two fart sounds with two crow caws. Now after you make the two fart sounds again follow that up with one longer more shrill crow caw. Now repeat the farts and follow them up with the initial two crow caws. Do this for five minutes and tell me wether your bored or not, because that exactly what rap music is doing in my head

Give me a day in the studio with those two fart noises and the crow...

I'll give you a hot instrumental the likes you've never heard before. You may not like it, but I bet you I'll find an audience that loves it. In the early days of hip-hop, that was the essence. Making something out of nothing. It's creativity. That 90 percent you spoke of is the same in any genre. But that other 10 percent is golden.

Rock has used the exact same tools for 50 years. Guitar, base, drum, and vocal. But they find a way to make it new. I can respect that. And you should respect the fact that the golden 10 percent of hip-hop is pushing the envelope of musical sound in general.

I with you there D-Double, I thought about responding to that particular post but the words escaped me. It takes an amazing amount of ignorance to come out with shit like that, especially when there are plenty of people on this forum who will shoot it down in flames. There are genres of music i dont care for but i dont know enough about them to write them off as "devoid of creative process", so i keep my mouth shut and let whoever likes it get on with it.

BTW, what movie is that Bill Cosby and Sidney Poitier pic from?

Originally posted by Afro Cheese

It takes a lot more effort to write rap lyrics then you think. Not only do you have to try to convey your message clearly, you also have to make it rhyme consistently, flow nice, and if you really want rap fans to like your music, you also have to pack it with literary devices like metaphors, punchlines, multi syllable rhymes, inner-bar patterns, the works. Only rap fans pick up on this stuff because rap is the only genre where artists go out of their way to perfect these techniques.

That's some pretty brainy stuff if you ask me...


Kool > Word!!... I'm out! PEACE!!

... it's from "Let's do it again". The sequel to "Uptown Saturday Night".
... I've almost hurt myself laugh'n at those movies...

I've seen Uptown Saturday Night, classic movie. I'll have to check the sequel, didnt realise there was one.

Well Darth Raven

its not the best lyrics i have heard but i read it with an open mind and their were a few gems in it that were pretty inspired. I like the pacman verse and the not enough woman on the jury lyrics. But allot of that specific song to me didn't connect the dots of his seperate ideas to me, it was sort of sporadic and random and i like structured better.

remember what i said too man there are inspired songs from every genre, ist just that overall rap is bad, but don't worry i am not biased, overall i think almost every genre is crap overall

"It takes a lot more effort to write rap lyrics then you think. Not only do you have to try to convey your message clearly, you also have to make it rhyme consistently, flow nice, and if you really want rap fans to like your music, you also have to pack it with literary devices like metaphors, punchlines, multi syllable rhymes, inner-bar patterns, the works. Only rap fans pick up on this stuff because rap is the only genre where artists go out of their way to perfect these techniques. "

Ok i can respect that Afro
what about the background music , can you refer me to some rap musicians that don't use super mario style music in the background because virtually every rap song i have heard is weak when it comes to the background music.
Also my own personal taste i like vocals (singing not rapping) that gets stuck in my head. For instance if i take a second i can hear cris cornells voice in my head without even trying very hard. I don't really get this with rap man. Maybe it works like that with rap for differnt people but it sounds reletivley the same to me, their is an occassion were someone has a new sounding v oice and i respect that, like for instance ODB had a funny crazy weird type of voice were you just look at the sterio and go WTF????? it is something differnt i do like that (though his lyrics were absurd at least in my opinion it sounded like a troubled kid in the sand lot) But for the most part I like the sound of a voice singing, not talking is a speeded tone to a fast rythem. And the chorus lines to me are not especially good from what i have heard in allot of rap songs. I hate that quivering loud gospel style singing and i hate even worse when the rapper trys to sing when he is obviosley terrible at it.
But I like how you discussed some of the key points like the rythem and the metaphors and the like, i can respect that, but the form of music it comes in for me gets boring very quickly. I gues thats just me. Remember when you speak about music too you are talking opinion at a greater level. To someone else , remember, country music is where its at musicaly and they could give you a series of reasons why it is.
I guess for me i just like to pick and choose small amounts of each genre that work for me for whatever particular reason.
Because for the most part, especially commercially, most genres really blow and are more infuenced by marketing strategiesb than they are by the love of music, thats why i tend to stick to the particular odd ducks in differnt genres that interest me.
I need variety in sound and content and for the most part, however you think of the genre, you have to admit thats not one of raps stronger points

I think i understand what you are saying, but you must understand that the people you are debating against listen to a lot of hip hop you have probably never heard. So when you say that the background music (im guessing you mean the hooks and samples) all sound like Super Mario it doesnt carry much weight because we know differently. Some groups who i think have great "background music" are Jedi Mind Tricks, Mr Lif, Jurrasic 5, Aesop Rock and Blackalicious. I'll leave it to the other hip hop heads to name some more.

Originally posted by koolruningz
I think i understand what you are saying, but you must understand that the people you are debating against listen to a lot of hip hop you have probably never heard. So when you say that the background music (im guessing you mean the hooks and samples) all sound like Super Mario it doesnt carry much weight because we know differently. Some groups who i think have great "background music" are Jedi Mind Tricks, Mr Lif, Jurrasic 5, Aesop Rock and Blackalicious. I'll leave it to the other hip hop heads to name some more.

I hope you actually quoted some good sources of music for rap, kool, because i am going to take you up on that offer and check those out just for kicks to see what i think. I will especially pay attention to the music aspect of it.
I have never heard any of those selections and i will listen to them with an open mind. I would love to be proven wrong.

MJ

honestly i dont belive music or movies for that matter really promote violence. think abought it we had violince way before the hip/hop era. inho i believe the people who commit violence to others are the cause not music. sh*t they blamed manson for the colombine shooting back in 99 cause they thought he promoted that. but guess what those 2 guys who shot up the school they did that on there own by being bullied. music in that matter wasnt the cause of it. hell take a look at scott peterson that dude didnt listen to a hip/hop record the guy went out of his way to kill his wife. not a cd.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
I hope you actually quoted some good sources of music for rap, kool, because i am going to take you up on that offer and check those out just for kicks to see what i think. I will especially pay attention to the music aspect of it.
I have never heard any of those selections and i will listen to them with an open mind. I would love to be proven wrong.

MJ

As long as you don't come back saying they're crap just coz you don't wanna be proven wrong.

-AC

Originally posted by LIL-G
honestly i dont belive music or movies for that matter really promote violence. think abought it we had violince way before the hip/hop era.


Violence in the music media and movies does not promote violence. However it does celebrate violence and influence the preferences and ideals of younger viewers and listeners. That combined with a total lack of parenting skills by many parents is a big problem.

I hate when people say that the media has no effect on kids or their behaviour, that a very "hide your head in the sand" way to be. Every one has watched a movie that made them sad, happy or angry at one time or another. I know that when I exercise I listen to music that gets my Adrenalin pumping, and if I want to relax I listen to music that mellows me out.

Kids have always followed the lead of their media idols, they grew mop tops when they listened and idolized the Beatles, they were introduced to free love and drugs in the Hendrix era and they dressed like complete freaks and enjoyed the lure of harder drugs during the New Wave of the 80's. Why is it so hard for people to admit that children now may be idolizing and simulating the behaviour of the musicians and celebrities that they are influenced by now?

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Violence in the music media and movies does not promote violence. However it does celebrate violence and influence the preferences and ideals of younger viewers and listeners. That combined with a total lack of parenting skills by many parents is a big problem.

I hate when people say that the media has no effect on kids or their behaviour, that a very "hide your head in the sand" way to be. Every one has watched a movie that made them sad, happy or angry at one time or another. I know that when I exercise I listen to music that gets my Adrenalin pumping, and if I want to relax I listen to music that mellows me out.

Kids have always followed the lead of their media idols, they grew mop tops when they listened and idolized the Beatles, they were introduced to free love and drugs in the Hendrix era and they dressed like complete freaks and enjoyed the lure of harder drugs during the New Wave of the 80's. Why is it so hard for people to admit that children now may be idolizing and simulating the behaviour of the musicians and celebrities that they are influenced by now?

I agree with you for the most part..I do believe however that the media does promote violence..seeing as how "celebrating" something is kind of like "promoting it." Other than that I think you hit the nail right on the head.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
I hope you actually quoted some good sources of music for rap, kool, because i am going to take you up on that offer and check those out just for kicks to see what i think. I will especially pay attention to the music aspect of it.
I have never heard any of those selections and i will listen to them with an open mind. I would love to be proven wrong.

MJ

Atmosphere and MF Doom both have good beats also.

dude rap/hip/hop isnt just abought hardcore gansta sh*t look at ludacris for example he dosent go out there a rap kill him or kill her. all he does is make sex songs basicly.



if media v.i.a music or films for that matter causes people in general to go out and kill somone just think it's not the music it's the person who listened to it. the person or persons who listen to rap and go out and do what is said then i believe that fan or buyer is either a follower or just not a saine person.

No, dammit, get out of the thread, you're ruining it!!! shock

Don't listen to our friend, Ludacris is equally as shit as modern fake gangsta artists like 50-cent and Lloyd Banks.

True dat

im not a 50 fan.


i listen to the old school sh*t.

like


n.w.a

wu-tang-clan

bone thugz

ice cube

and so on.


most of the new rap is more abought money and cars.

and drugs, and "hoes", and being icy.

You're right, and Ludacris is no different, so I don't even know why you brought him up. That's why I said that he is equally as bad as modern gangster shit.

think now. hiphop has changed latley. it goes from hardcore street sh*t to clubbing sh*t


i was raised around the old hiphop era as i like to call it.


look at snoop dogg now he's teaming with a frigging boy band chump known as justin timberlink.

true.

now a days anyone can get a rap deal. sh*t i was just waching 40 least great hiphop moments and some christain rapper actually did a track talking abought eminem.


wheni heard the track and thats when i said hip/hop is being killed slowly.

Hip Hop has been terminal since 99-00.

Mainstream anyway.

-AC

Originally posted by Draco69
From what I read, it portrays African-Americans as drug-dealers, pimps, whores, and generally bad people overall. Unfortunately this is the most popular media image of blacks. And to further this many young blacks are imitating this behavior by committing actual crimes and dressing like prostitutes. Go to downtown Bronx and you'll see what I mean.
so basically ppl like 50 cent are giving african-americans a bad rep..., that what you saying,and they started immitating him