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"Anti Immagration is base racisim" was yelled back and forth on FoxNews earlier, and AHnaLd was called a racist for supporting the minutemen at the CA borders.
I'm the last person to be considered a pawn for the liberal left and what not, but I tend to agree with this statement.
The "minute-men" really were waiting for a reason to kick the immagrants out of their state.
Now they found a legal reason.
Immagrants mean change, no one wants change, therefore no one other than certain few want immagrants. It's the way it is.

Would you come here illegally if you were from mexico?
I sure as hell would.
Would you kick illegal immagrants out of your state ala "minutemen"?
I sure as hell would.

What do you say??

I've been watching this story. It's total bullshit. Arnold isn't a racist, he's a public official that has the best interest of his constituants in mind. Illegal immigrants are a huge drain on the economy. Here in California, it's into the double digit billions of dollars. The people who are complaining about this should get their priorities straight. I mean, how could Arnold be against immigrants? He is one! But, the difference is that he came here legally.

Certain immigrants do qualify for refugee plans. For example Cubans who escape from Fidel's island by boat are candidates for residence (sp?) in the States. Immigrants who just cross the boarder in search of better wages or maybe a better life should file papers with immigration as soon as possible. They most likely be given work permits to work and possibly a chance for residency. In a few years they can apply for citizenship.

All I ask is that immigrants shouldn't be label as troublemakers or criminals. Is wrong and stupid to label all immigrants as a problem. Next time you're eating vegetables in your dinner table remenber...someone pick those up from the fields and is making less than an average whitecollar worker.

Mistreatment of illegal immigrants is one thing that really gets on my friggin nerves.

illegal immigrants are not a strain on our economy. the people who hire them and create the demand however, are. usually white upper-middle class americans. erase the demand, you eliminate the supply. vice-versa doesn not work. illegals provide dirt-cheap labor, they risk their lives to get here, get paid horribly, and are worked to the bone. people think of mexicans and they picture some lazy guy with a big moustache a sombrero spending 16 hours a day taking a siesta in the shade. the truth is their lives suck and they try to make the best of it. if any of you were in their shoes you would be stowed away in the first 130degree trailer you could find and be on your way to america.

they cant work and support their families at home, so they go where there is opportunity. people bash on them as if they are stealing our luxuries. bullshit. they are the ones who clean up shit, sweat in factories, and do various other unholy jobs that most people cant be bothered with. its just another abstract 'problem' for people to shake their heads at, but never understand

Originally posted by WindDancer
Certain immigrants do qualify for refugee plans. For example Cubans who escape from Fidel's island by boat are candidates for residence (sp?) in the States. Immigrants who just cross the boarder in search of better wages or maybe a better life should file papers with immigration as soon as possible. They most likely be given work permits to work and possibly a chance for residency. In a few years they can apply for citizenship.

All I ask is that immigrants shouldn't be label as troublemakers or criminals. Is wrong and stupid to label all immigrants as a problem. Next time you're eating vegetables in your dinner table remenber...someone pick those up from the fields and is making less than an average whitecollar worker.

Mistreatment of illegal immigrants is one thing that really gets on my friggin nerves.

I'm not really referring to Cubans. I understand that they are fleeing a tyranical regime. But, you know what, I don't think they should be given a blank check as far as immigration is concerned. There are a lot of questionable governments out there, and we don't give them all teh benefit of "hey, once you make it here, you can stay." I feel that they are given such preference because the US still likes to shoot Castro the middle finger. But, there has to be rules. And Arnold shouldn't be given shit for asking they be enforced.

And I'm not into abuse of illegal immigrants, but there is a process to becoming a citizen of the US.

And I agree, most illegal immigrants are likely law abiding citizens. They came here with the hopes of a better life, why would they contribute to turning this country into what they're trying to get away from.

Actually, no Mexican illegal immagrants who are here are law abiding citizens, otherwize they'd be back in good old Mexico.

This shows they care more for themselves than they do our laws, it shows that they have another interest than making this country better (could it be to make their OWN country better by leetching off ours? hmmmm...its a MYSTERY!) do you want those types of people in your town? I don't.



Bullshit and you know it. Don't confuse your empathy towards your fellow humans as facts.



Actually, you're wrong.
It's estimated (can't be sure because the fact that II's are illegal and hide) that 95% of illegal immagrants from mexico send their money back to mexico, comparatively sending the average wage of an American back to Mexico due to high exchange rates.

These are hard facts, even so, my empathy does still push me toward wanting to allow II's into america freely.
It's all very hard to just thrust to one side or another.

Originally posted by long pig
Actually, no Mexican illegal immagrants who are here are law abiding citizens, otherwize they'd be back in good old Mexico.

There's no need to split hairs with me. You know very well what I'm talking about. But, I did walk into that one.

Illegal immigrants - wherever they are, should not be there. They can be refugees, but of course illegal immigrant and a refugee are tw dfferent things.

Illigal immigrants are drain on the economy - not only around US, but everywhere.

This sounds like...a liberal viewpoint.

Originally posted by FeceMan
This sounds like...a liberal viewpoint.

Which one?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
There's no need to split hairs with me. You know very well what I'm talking about. But, I did walk into that one.
lol
Was only for debate purposes, that's what people for the minute men have said in the past.

I was considering that the imagrants were using American empathy and guilt (i.e we have so much, they have so little.) against us.

Would I use American guilt/empathy to my advantage as an imagrant, if I were one? Of course.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Which one?
I'm not sure.
I think he disagree's with me so he's trying to use my words "I'm the last person to be considered a pawn for the liberal left and what not" against me.
Trying to make it look like I'm insulting myself.
It's a typical far left winger tactic.

Or maybe he wasn't.
Who knows, he probably wouldn't admit it now either way would he?

Originally posted by long pig
Who knows, he probably wouldn't admit it now either way would he?

Yeah, I think he will.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
And I'm not into abuse of illegal immigrants, but there is a process to becoming a citizen of the US.

And I agree, most illegal immigrants are likely law abiding citizens. They came here with the hopes of a better life, why would they contribute to turning this country into what they're trying to get away from.

Yes and I agree that they must go through the process. That is why I support work permits for illegal immigrants. With a fair record and good conduct they should be also given a chance for residency and citizenship. It all depends on their civil record.


Originally posted by long pig
Actually, you're wrong.
It's estimated (can't be sure because the fact that II's are illegal and hide) that 95% of illegal immagrants from mexico send their money back to mexico, comparatively sending the average wage of an American back to Mexico due to high exchange rates.


What is wrong with sending money to your family members in your native country? And what deficit could that cost? An illegal immigrant makes LESS than the minimum wages of an average citizen. These people come to work on the fields. How are they taking away our jobs? How can you say that these immigrants are costing us money when they are actually doing the hard work out there? Is plain low wages labor. They earn a few dollars and they send it back to Mexico. With the exchange that is more money for the families. If they were making millions of dollars and sending the money down south you might have a case. But that is not happening at all.

Originally posted by WindDancer
Yes and I agree that they must go through the process. That is why I support work permits for illegal immigrants. With a fair record and good conduct they should be also given a chance for residency and citizenship. It all depends on their civil record.



But what about Cuban immigrants? Don't you think they have an unfair advantage? I know that some citizens of Cuba are caught trying to enter the US by boat and are sent back before they reach the shores, but there is a precident that they are allowed to stay once they reach the shores of the US. That's wrong in my opinion. In fact, that Gonzales kid was one of the few that have ever been sent back. At least that I'm aware of.

What is wrong with it is it takes money away from America, maybe even being used against it somehow in the future.

A few thousand working illegally and sending money back home wouldn't bother me, but Ten Million in Cali alone bothers me. That's just the number they could find, who knows how many more million are in Cali or the rest of the country.

And it's only growing. That doesn't bother you that you're own tax money is being used to upgrade a failing country that isn't your own? And possibly the money could be used against you in the future??
I understand empathy I seriously do. But after a while empathy gets used against you...as it is in the US now.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But what about Cuban immigrants? Don't you think they have an unfair advantage? I know that some citizens of Cuba are caught trying to enter the US by boat and are sent back before they reach the shores, but there is a precident that they are allowed to stay once they reach the shores of the US. That's wrong in my opinion. In fact, that Gonzales kid was one of the few that have ever been sent back. At least that I'm aware of.


I really don't know the specifics in all cases. But there must be a reason as to why they turn them down. Is hard to speculate in each case. But I do think they have unfair advantages. Also, remenber that certain Cuban deserters (using the term losely) don't head straight to Miami. Certain Cuban immigrants take their route towards Mexico and then to the US.

As for that Gonzales kid....that was just a big Political and Media circus. I'm sure the family that took care of kid during his time in America will try to get him back here when he reaches a legal adult age.

Originally posted by long pig
A few thousand working illegally and sending money back home wouldn't bother me, but Ten Million in Cali alone bothers me. That's just the number they could find, who knows how many more million are in Cali or the rest of the country.

And it's only growing. That doesn't bother you that you're own tax money is being used to upgrade a failing country that isn't your own? And possibly the money could be used against you in the future??
I understand empathy I seriously do. But after a while empathy gets used against you...as it is in the US now.


I agree. But, even legal immigrants are sending money back to their country of origin. The only way that is going to stop is if we close the borders and discontinue our policy of allowing legal immigrants to enter this country and become citizens. However, I do think that you have to start somewhere, and it might as well be with those who are in this country illegally.

And the money being sent back to these countries is only a small percentage of the money being used against us. I'm willing to bet that more money is used against us from our use of illegal, imported drugs. But, that's why Marijuana should be legal. It would bring in huge revenues for the US economy, and curb the funding of anti US activities around the world. But, I know, there's another thread for that debate.

Originally posted by PVS
illegal immigrants are not a strain on our economy.


Originally posted by long pig

Bullshit and you know it. Don't confuse your empathy towards your fellow humans as facts.

Originally posted by PVS
illegal immigrants are not a strain on our economy. the people who hire them and create the demand however, are. usually white upper-middle class americans. erase the demand, you eliminate the supply. vice-versa doesn not work.

its really annoying when you take the first sentence of someone's arguement out of context and offer a response like that? if you have no points to argue against mine then perhaps you should just glaze over my post to the next. nothing personal, but that was lame

I personally like the fact that we have immigrants in America. They do the jobs Americans dont want, and therefore help the economy grow.

it sounds harsh, but hey as long as im not the one cleaning toilets at the ho jo's

Originally posted by Curl_Up&Dye
I personally like the fact that we have immigrants in America. They do the jobs Americans dont want, and therefore help the economy grow.

it sounds harsh, but hey as long as im not the one cleaning toilets at the ho jo's

short sweet and funny....but true.

and to those in europe, i think you have a different element to deal with.
i spent a week in amsterdam and by the 4th day i had my wallet picked by someillegal mutant. its not like that in america. i work in the spanish ghetto and often walk through town to get my lunch without a care in the world. you know why? because illegals here are too busy working all hours of the day to be standing on some street corner looking for someone to mug. in america, we have to be more weary of our legal citizens. so dont let your own experiences judge the way you view illegals in america.

Oh great exploit the illegal immigrant to clean your toilet for a low price thus taking away the job from a citizen that can't find a job. Everyone complains about the job market and how its hard to find work, maybe because for instance construction, people love to hire illegal immagranst who will work for cheaper and work themselves to death and probably break a thousand saftey laws while they are at it (exploiting them, they are treated like slaves)
Who else is going to pick my lettuce for cheap. I can imagine a plantation owner saying that too about his cotton from back in the day when slavery was legal.
Fact is its pompuss to say that and its dangerous to leave a countrys border open to whoever wants to come in illegally. Immagration is a great thing, i say if you want to come to America, learn english, that will help you and the citizens of America, and get screaned for any disease and then come in and enjoy this great country. But this constant flow of illegal immigrants, that in many cases do not respect our laws (if you want me to bring up statistics i will do so for you gladly) could become very dangerous in the future. This is not racism, this is common sense.
You know what the solution is?
CLEAN UP MEXICO!!!!! Under better leadership I personaly believe that country could thrive in the future, it just takes hard work, and if its needed, even some help from us would be great. But they are not solving the problem of what a dump Mexico is by coming here, they are just avoiding it and causing strain on another country. Solve the problem at its heart, and that is not the border, the heart of the problem is Mexico. Lets help our neighbor figure out how to get things fixed in their own country and i am willing to bet illegal immagration will not be such a discussion.

Originally posted by PVS
short sweet and funny....but true.

and to those in europe, i think you have a different element to deal with.
i spent a week in amsterdam and by the 4th day i had my wallet picked by someillegal mutant. its not like that in america. i work in the spanish ghetto and often walk through town to get my lunch without a care in the world. you know why? because illegals here are too busy working all hours of the day to be standing on some street corner looking for someone to mug. in america, we have to be more weary of our legal citizens. so dont let your own experiences judge the way you view illegals in america.

Nice story. I got my expensive Carnhart Jacket that was given to me by my father stolen by an illegal immagrant.
So according to your statemnt that the man in ansterdam was an illegal mutant because he stole your wallet i should consider American illegal immigrants as mutants as well because of my jacket. illegal mutants because that happened to me here but then since nothing happened to me in amsterdam i should say that don't let your own personal experience determine how you think about illegals in amsterdam PVS.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it for a little while and get back to me PVS.

Originally posted by PVS
short sweet and funny....but true.

and to those in europe, i think you have a different element to deal with.
i spent a week in amsterdam and by the 4th day i had my wallet picked by someillegal mutant. its not like that in america. i work in the spanish ghetto and often walk through town to get my lunch without a care in the world. you know why? because illegals here are too busy working all hours of the day to be standing on some street corner looking for someone to mug. in america, we have to be more weary of our legal citizens. so dont let your own experiences judge the way you view illegals in america.

what a load of crap!!
I've been twice in a mexican ghetto, I got mugged the first time I went and the next time I went I saw another guy get mugged
and FYI, Ive been to Amsterdam 3 times, Ive also been in Belgium, and other european countries, and only once did I get mugged and it was in rome

i agree with curl cause most illegal aliens do more work than other people.

Originally posted by PVS
its really annoying when you take the first sentence of someone's arguement out of context and offer a response like that? if you have no points to argue against mine then perhaps you should just glaze over my post to the next. nothing personal, but that was lame

I read it, and it didn't make sense the first time or the second time.
I thought about it and decided that you were imo, saying the first emotional thing about the subject that came to mind and then backing it up by saying basically what I saw was(paraphrased to the extreme) "its white folks fault, because they treat immagrants bad".

Seriously, what did you mean?

ok...

lil got it spot in... refugees and immigrants are two completely different things...

and curl... very funny and yet true...

alright... i dont live in america so can only speak from experience...

ireland in the last ten or so years has had a massive influx of immigrants (both legal and illegal) and refugees mainly from asia, africa and eastern europe...

a while back there was a law passed to toughen the immigration laws... this was met by many idiots claiming it was racist... it wasnt...

ireland is a small country, at the rate of immigration the country was going to hell... we're just simply not able...

now please dont misunderstand me, the laws in ireland are heavily flawed, but what they are trying to accomplish is in my opinion right... illegal immigration has to be stopped, period. plenty of people come to ireland to study or to work, and thats fine with me, plenty of refugees have come to ireland due to their own countries being messed up, again, i have no problem...

all that said... there is a tendency among irish people to put our economic troubles solely on the shoulders of these illegal immigrants when a lot of irish people are so far up their own arses that working in mcdonalds has become taboo...

i hope that made some amount of sense...

It made perfect sense.

Okay, the truth of the matter is that, despite how hard they work, these people should be here legally. My grandfathers company has paid tens of thousands of dollars in fines because they have employed illegal immigrants, through no fault of their own, they had the papers when they applied for the job. While the company isn't held responsible for false papers, they are still held responsible for illegals working for them

My mother is the VP of human resources, and she still speakes in favor of the illegal immigrants. She says that she has had to fire the hardest working people on the floor. But, despite what she has to say, they are still here illeagally.

I'm sure once the US government stops caring, then so will everyone else.

I think Hecht has been called racist for similair reasons despite the fact that he is a non-European illegal immigrant

well if it should happen, it should happen at smaller numbers. At this rate the city of LA will have a opulation the size of Canada. LOL

Originally posted by long pig
I read it, and it didn't make sense the first time or the second time.
I thought about it and decided that you were imo, saying the first emotional thing about the subject that came to mind and then backing it up by saying basically what I saw was(paraphrased to the extreme) "its white folks fault, because they treat immagrants bad".

Seriously, what did you mean?

ok, fine, if i must break down a basic law of econimics then i must

pay attention

for there to be a SUPPLY there must be a DEMAND.
the supply would be migrant workers, and the DEMAND would
be the need/want to hire them for dirt cheap labor....YOU WITH ME SO FAR? i hope so....

anyway, if you took EVERY SINGLE illegal out of america, the want/need for them would still exist...got that? ok just a little more to go, so keep paying attention...

that is why the elimination of supply does not eliminate demand. its kinda like drugs. if all the drugs in america somehow vanished, there would still be users/addicts who remain and want MORE drugs....ok?
thus it would be profitable for dealers to smuggle MORE drugs into the community, right? problem not solved.

HOWEVER, if all users/addicts decided to not take drugs (illegal) anymore, guess what would happen? the demand would vanish and thus the supply would also vanish, since there is no point in going through the trouble of smuggling narcotics if nobody will buy them....correct? problem solved.

so lets review

elimination of demand(those who hire) eliminates supply (those who would be hired) HOWEVER elimination of supply, would only serve to INCREASE the demand. so there would still be dirt-paying jobs to be had, thus those who were/are deported would hop on the next trailer and come right BACK to the states.

please tell me you understand

Originally posted by IceWithin
what a load of crap!!
I've been twice in a mexican ghetto, I got mugged the first time I went and the next time I went I saw another guy get mugged

there are criminal elements in all communities, especially poor ones. and just so i know, was this gheto in MEXICO? i was referring to american ghettos. and despite your story, im still going to walk a quarter mile to get a fish sandwich today and i know i will encounter no trouble. yet i will walk right by dozens of migrant workers standing along the side of the road waiting for some contractor to pull over and offer them a day's work.

Originally posted by PVS
ok, fine, if i must break down a basic law of econimics then i must

pay attention

for there to be a SUPPLY there must be a DEMAND.
the supply would be migrant workers, and the DEMAND would
be the need/want to hire them for dirt cheap labor....YOU WITH ME SO FAR? i hope so....

anyway, if you took EVERY SINGLE illegal out of america, the want/need for them would still exist...got that? ok just a little more to go, so keep paying attention...

that is why the elimination of supply does not eliminate demand. its kinda like drugs. if all the drugs in america somehow vanished, there would still be users/addicts who remain and want MORE drugs....ok?
thus it would be profitable for dealers to smuggle MORE drugs into the community, right? problem not solved.

HOWEVER, if all users/addicts decided to not take drugs (illegal) anymore, guess what would happen? the demand would vanish and thus the supply would also vanish, since there is no point in going through the trouble of smuggling narcotics if nobody will buy them....correct? problem solved.

so lets review

elimination of demand(those who hire) eliminates supply (those who would be hired) HOWEVER elimination of supply, would only serve to INCREASE the demand. so there would still be dirt-paying jobs to be had, thus those who were/are deported would hop on the next trailer and come right BACK to the states.

please tell me you understand

i do see what you mean... but if the demand was stopped tomorrow, there would still be illegal immigrants... i see them begging on the streets (not all genuine), others living off the state...

i don't think it will have the impact you hope it will...

thats an assumption.
i have yet to have a single illegal ask me for a dime.
not a single one. why would they risk their lives (and many do) to come here to be panhandlers? they have to pay to come here (meaning those who dont simply run over the boarder). most of them dont run the boarder, but pay smugglers to bring them here. the mentallity is that what they pay is small compared to what they earn, so its a sound investment.

Originally posted by PVS
thats an assumption.
i have yet to have a single illegal ask me for a dime.
not a single one. why would they risk their lives (and many do) to come here to be panhandlers? they have to pay to come here (meaning those who dont simply run over the boarder). most of them dont run the boarder, but pay smugglers to bring them here. the mentallity is that what they pay is small compared to what they earn, so its a sound investment.

i'm sorry...

i dont live in the us, im talking about ireland, it was in my first post in this thread

and here, i've had many ask me... they've even come to the front door of my house...

Originally posted by pr1983
i'm sorry...

i dont live in the us, im talking about ireland, it was in my first post in this thread

and here, i've had many ask me... they've even come to the front door of my house...

yeah, like i said, things seem to be different in europe. i imagine it would be difficult for people over there to imagine an illegal actually working hard for the cash they make. an honest mistake i think.

Originally posted by shaber
I think Hecht has been called racist for similair reasons despite the fact that he is a non-European illegal immigrant

I dont get it

Originally posted by PVS
there are criminal elements in all communities, especially poor ones. and just so i know, was this gheto in MEXICO? i was referring to american ghettos. and despite your story, im still going to walk a quarter mile to get a fish sandwich today and i know i will encounter no trouble. yet i will walk right by dozens of migrant workers standing along the side of the road waiting for some contractor to pull over and offer them a day's work.

mexican ghetto as in a ghetto which was full of mexicans and cubans

Originally posted by PVS
yeah, like i said, things seem to be different in europe. i imagine it would be difficult for people over there to imagine an illegal actually working hard for the cash they make. an honest mistake i think.

no... i know there are alot of people who do come over and work their asses off...

but i do feel that too many choose the other route (over here anyway)...

Originally posted by pr1983
no... i know there are alot of people who do come over and work their asses off...

but i do feel that too many choose the other route (over here anyway)...

what i meant was that illegals over there seen to have a much easier time in invading the community. thats the only reason i can think of. or else, why would they bother coming all that way just to be a criminal?

mexicans dont have to cross the boarder to rob americans. there are plenty of tourist spots in their own country where they would be far more successful if they chose to go down that road.

dispite a previous poster denying the problems in amsterdam, i have seen it first-hand and im sure there are plenty here who know as well. illegals just hanging out along the streets harassing tourists and locals alike. first they offer drugs (which they probably dont have) when refused they ask for a handout. when refused they then threaten you and/or pickpocket you. i cant see how he can deny this since they infest the city like frikin roaches.

Originally posted by PVS
what i meant was that illegals over there seen to have a much easier time in invading the community. thats the only reason i can think of. or else, why would they bother coming all that way just to be a criminal?

mexicans dont have to cross the boarder to rob americans. there are plenty of tourist spots in their own country where they would be far more successful if they chose to go down that road.

i wasnt talking neccessarily about being criminals... just sponging off the state...



any country with illegal immigrants has that problem, just in different scales and amounts... even the usa has some i'd say...

(((Sheriff Baca points out, "California, essentially, lost its sovereignty. There are 40,000 illegal immigrants in the state prison system here. Twenty-three percent of the county jail population in Los Angeles county are illegal immigrants and what we have is a revolving door.")))

read^
hhhhmmmm PVS, illegal aliens are really peace loving law abiding people that are only here to work and not here to commit crimes eehh??

(((California's nearly 3 million illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $9 billion each year, according to a new report released last week by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington, D.C.-based group that promotes stricter immigration policies.

Educating the children of illegal immigrants is the largest cost, estimated at $7.7 billion each year, according to the report. Medical care for illegal immigrants and incarceration of those who have committed crimes are the next two largest expenses measured in the study, the author said.))))

(((((In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

In 2000, nearly 30 percent of federal prisoners were foreign-born. )))))

Wow PVS, so much for your assessment there huh? I told ya you keep talking like that and i will bring up things called facts and statistics, not just hot air and false generalizations like all illegal aliens are here to work.
Think about it. 95 PERCENT OF HOMOCIDE WARRENTS ARE FOR ILLEGALS!!!!
How many family members of citezens have been buthered for the sake of your cheap labor for your nice clean toilet?
Yea sure, hire a citizen here you might have to pay more, one less vacation for the CEO this year, boohoo. But its well worth the cost of not having blood on your hands.
Legal immagration is fine but YOU MUST secure the border.

I regularly go to Amsterdam and I have never been robbed, strange seeing as you say it happens a lot and I go there almost every week or so. Of course somebody did once offered me drugs i said no walked on nothing happened. Besides if i want drugs there I'll go into a coffee shop thats were those things are for.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
(((Sheriff Baca points out, "California, essentially, lost its sovereignty. There are 40,000 illegal immigrants in the state prison system here. Twenty-three percent of the county jail population in Los Angeles county are illegal immigrants and what we have is a revolving door.")))

read^
hhhhmmmm PVS, illegal aliens are really peace loving law abiding people that are only here to work and not here to commit crimes eehh??

(((California's nearly 3 million illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $9 billion each year, according to a new report released last week by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a Washington, D.C.-based group that promotes stricter immigration policies.

Educating the children of illegal immigrants is the largest cost, estimated at $7.7 billion each year, according to the report. Medical care for illegal immigrants and incarceration of those who have committed crimes are the next two largest expenses measured in the study, the author said.))))

(((((In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

In 2000, nearly 30 percent of federal prisoners were foreign-born. )))))

Wow PVS, so much for your assessment there huh? I told ya you keep talking like that and i will bring up things called facts and statistics, not just hot air and false generalizations like all illegal aliens are here to work.
Think about it. 95 PERCENT OF HOMOCIDE WARRENTS ARE FOR ILLEGALS!!!!
How many family members of citezens have been buthered for the sake of your cheap labor for your nice clean toilet?
Yea sure, hire a citizen here you might have to pay more, one less vacation for the CEO this year, boohoo. But its well worth the cost of not having blood on your hands.
Legal immagration is fine but YOU MUST secure the border.

until you can post a credible source thats all just 'blah blah PVS blah blah' to me
well? lets have it.

"Yea sure, hire a citizen here you might have to pay more, one less vacation for the CEO this year, boohoo. But its well worth the cost of not having blood on your hands"

ahh, so underneath all the petty jabs we agree after all? supply/demand

what i've been saying the whole time is that illegals are not the cause,
but rather the symptom. and although you just cant accept it, wealthy people (mostly white!!! fear) are the cause. they are the ones that hire them and give them a REASON to jump the boarder. but why dont we go after them? which brings us to racism.

of coarse i'm sure things are different overseas, as most of us understand. i refer to the problem in america.

Originally posted by IceWithin
I dont get it

Michael Howard aka Hecht leader of the Conservative Party....

remember how his cynical tactics earned him the buzzword "racist?"

Originally posted by pr1983

ireland in the last ten or so years has had a massive influx of immigrants (both legal and illegal) and refugees mainly from asia, africa and eastern europe...




why the hell would asians want to go to ireland?? I mean seriously of all the places....

Originally posted by PVS
until you can post a credible source thats all just 'blah blah PVS blah blah' to me
well? lets have it.

"Yea sure, hire a citizen here you might have to pay more, one less vacation for the CEO this year, boohoo. But its well worth the cost of not having blood on your hands"

ahh, so underneath all the petty jabs we agree after all? supply/demand

Look it up yourself. If your so wise on the issue maybe you should have come across this data yourself. If you really want me to look up the sources again for you to check it out I will, but i would appreciate it if you were a little bit more involved in seeking out this information for yourself since your so determined to take a side without any facts.

And no we don't agree PVS. I was using sarcasm. No amount of blood is worth cheap lettuce picking. I guess it doesn't matter to you the pain and suffering that has taken place because of the open border situation at the hands of criminals that have taken advantage of this. It really doesn't matter as much that there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of victims of crimes at the hands of illegal criminals each year as long as you don't have to pay that extra quarter for your lettuce when you go shopping. Petty jabs? We are talking about peoples lives here.

You did have one point I agree with. A big part of the responsibility is on the shoulders of the business' that hire these illegal immagrants knowing full well that they are not legal do to their greed. I agree with you on that 100 percent.

i dont think the problem of crime is illegals entering the country, its the fact that there needs to be a law enforcement crackdown on the criminals that cross over. there are plenty of hard working immigrants in this country illegally, and mainly its just because they are in desperate need of money and there's too much government red tape. I have no problem with them.

however, the criminals that decide to waltz on over through a hole in the fence i do have a problem with. there needs to be more cooperation and communication between the domestic and foreign naturalization government branches, so we can track and deport criminals who do nothing more than create problems, back to where they belong.... their own country and in jail



oh yeah and moviejunkie, if you have a problem with my belief in allowing immigrants to take jobs that americans dont want... think about this....


do you think they would rather be back in their home country starving to death, or here in america making some money, and supporting their family. They left for a reason, and its not because they weren't getting their corporate fringe benefits

It amazes me that we are 3 pages into this and noone has mentioned the devastating impact illegal immigrants have had on our medicare/medicade and social security systems!!
I AM NOT racist, and living in Georgia (which , as stated above, has one of the fastest growing population of illegals) I have worked and lived around MANY admittedly illegal aliens. How can anyone possibly defend them as law-abiding when they are here ILLEGALLY in the first place???
If our unemolyment rate country-wide was less than 1% this might be a different story...but that is simply not so.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
Look it up yourself. If your so wise on the issue maybe you should have come across this data yourself. If you really want me to look up the sources again for you to check it out I will, but i would appreciate it if you were a little bit more involved in seeking out this information for yourself since your so determined to take a side without any facts.


no! if you quote an article its YOUR responsibility to give the source. if not, thats plagiarism at worst and misinformation at best. so either provide the source or you are in the wrong on this one based solely on principle.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
And no we don't agree PVS. I was using sarcasm. No amount of blood is worth cheap lettuce picking. I guess it doesn't matter to you the pain and suffering that has taken place because of the open border situation at the hands of criminals that have taken advantage of this. It really doesn't matter as much that there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of victims of crimes at the hands of illegal criminals each year as long as you don't have to pay that extra quarter for your lettuce when you go shopping. Petty jabs? We are talking about peoples lives here.

"hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of victims" all a part of your mysterious statistics which i still await a source for.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
You did have one point I agree with. A big part of the responsibility is on the shoulders of the business' that hire these illegal immagrants knowing full well that they are not legal do to their greed. I agree with you on that 100 percent.

yes

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
Yea sure, hire a citizen here you might have to pay more, one less vacation for the CEO this year, boohoo.

and yes


well, then you agree with what i SAID you agree with!!!! really wtf? why dont you focus on the topic instead of trying to put PVS in his place, since it's clearly clouding your vision and ability to read what i say. would be helpful and we might actually get somewhere.

Pure Evil

Registered: Jun 2004
Location: The Dark Side
what i've been saying the whole time is that illegals are not the cause,
but rather the symptom. and although you just cant accept it, wealthy people (mostly white!!! ) are the cause. they are the ones that hire them and give them a REASON to jump the boarder. but why dont we go after them? which brings us to racism."

Thats what you said and i replied with this

You did have one point I agree with. A big part of the responsibility is on the shoulders of the business' that hire these illegal immagrants knowing full well that they are not legal do to their greed. I agree with you on that 100 percent.

Where are you getting lost?

anyway i have to head to class. When i get home i will post the statistics for you. Just for you PVS

PS sorry if i have sounded confrontational, I will be more constructive in the post tonight. Afterall we are not enemies we are just having a meeting of two different minds.

Fit sig

The thing that pisses me off about the whole illegal immigration issue is the fact that there are millions of illegal immigrants employed in the US. If we're so concerned about keeping our borders closed, why do we hire these people? We're practically inviting them over because of companies that employ them by the thousands, often for laughable wages.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Illegal immigrants - wherever they are, should not be there. They can be refugees, but of course illegal immigrant and a refugee are tw dfferent things.

Illigal immigrants are drain on the economy - not only around US, but everywhere. Yep.. illegals sending 'our' (wherever this may be) money back to their country is creating a hole in the economy

People complain about hiring immigrants.

Well, imagine a country at extreme opposite ends of the labor wage market. Oh, you don't have to imagine one. It already exists.

Union members make laughable wages that are ridiculously higher than they should be - even with the higher standard of living in some areas.

Illegal immigrant workers make laughable wages that that are ridiculously lower than they should be, but seem ridiculously higher to them in all relativity.

Considering that many companies are faced with the first scenario, and if they're not many of their competitors are,
Can you guess which scenario companies would want to implement????

Originally posted by Darth Plagueis
It amazes me that we are 3 pages into this and noone has mentioned the devastating impact illegal immigrants have had on our medicare/medicade and social security systems!!
I AM NOT racist, and living in Georgia (which , as stated above, has one of the fastest growing population of illegals) I have worked and lived around MANY admittedly illegal aliens. How can anyone possibly defend them as law-abiding when they are here ILLEGALLY in the first place???
If our unemolyment rate country-wide was less than 1% this might be a different story...but that is simply not so.

It isn't that no one has thought of it. I tried looking up different statistics on the net. However, everytime I look up one point of view, there is another article that disputes it. One point of view is that the immigrants aren't really a burden on those two systems. It said that so many illegals pay in to social security, but never take the pay off. And then the article said that the same was true of medicare. For every article that had one point of view, there were two that disproved it.

My hometown is in North Carolina. The south eastern part of the country has the fast growing illegal immigrant population in the nation, especially North Carolina. They go there because of the tobacco fields.

And the unemployment rate has been discussed. Even if these immigrants weren't here, these jobs still wouldn't be occupied by Americans. The average American would rather live off unemployment and social security than work in a tobacco field. And I'm not saying that illegals wouldn't do the same, but they can't.

Originally posted by Darth Revan
The thing that pisses me off about the whole illegal immigration issue is the fact that there are millions of illegal immigrants employed in the US. If we're so concerned about keeping our borders closed, why do we hire these people? We're practically inviting them over because of companies that employ them by the thousands, often for laughable wages.

Because they often have false citizenship papers or workers permits. On the other hand, there are agriculture companies that employ them despite the fact, because they're cheap.

find the study that found 95 percent of the warrents for homocide are for illegal aliens. Thats your homework PVS. then i want you to estimate how many possible mrders that was that took place because the border was not secure. I want this by tonight, i will be grading you on this.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
find the study that found 95 percent of the warrents for homocide are for illegal aliens. Thats your homework PVS

i think its absolute bullshit
i searched and found nothing.
you need to back up your own numbers with valid links.
as they say, 'figures don't lie, but liars figure'

85% of all statistics found on the internet are lies.
look that up

now its time to correct you again.

"In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding homicide warrants and 60 percent of outstanding felony warrants are for illegal aliens."
its irresponsible, and downright annoying to misquote figures and misinform everyone. im willing to accept that you are not conciously lying, but you need to be careful with what you post, or you do a disservice to everyone here.

-thats in LA, not the country

-'outstanding warrant' is when the police have not found you in order to arrest you. you will find that in most cases where a murder is commited, the murderer is identified, however is able to evade capture, it is because of problems to do with them fleeing the country.

now, here is YOUR homework. find out the ratio of homicides in LA to the amount of outstanding warrants for homicide. since the internet is flooded with these agenda-based figures, it should prove near-impossible. i am confident however, that illegals make up a small percentage of the total homicides. i would bet my ass on it.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150638,00.html
and i quoted from foxnews so you should feel comfortable in reviewing it

Dey tuk our JOBs!

Originally posted by BackFire
Dey tuk our JOBs!

SERIOUSLY!!! all my life i dreamed of one day washing dishes at my local diner for 12 hour shifts...AND THEY STOLE IT FROM ME crybaby

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Which one?
Stopping illegal immigration equates to racism.

No, actually, I was not. I was pointing out that this liberal viewpoint was presented on--oh noes!--FOX. Which everyone here hates so much for being e'er so conservative. And I'm one of the people farthest from being a "left-winger" on KMC, so don't start with me.

Originally posted by BackFire
Dey tuk our JOBs!

Dey tuk our JOBs

no the reason i hate FOX, is not becuase thier conservtaives. Thier outright bias. Ten times more then CNN or Abc and such.

the big misconception made by rightwingers is that all liberals love and trust any media station besides fox...based on the knowledge that they themselves love and trust fox.

sorry to go off topic

Originally posted by Bardock42
Dey tuk our JOBs

Dey tuk our DURS!

Even hillary clinton wants to do something about the border, i hope nobody thinks securing the border is a conservative agenda.

It's trendy for young rich white kids to help poor minorites.
It has been for 50 years now.

Thats why i suspect 99% of those who are against strong border control as using it like it's the "new black".
It's annoying.

Everyone was born on Earth, so why should there be restrictions on where people live?

The only real borders are the oceans, the rest are just imaginary.

Oh, please.
Thats the most hippy bullshit i've ever heard.

Originally posted by long pig
Oh, please.
Thats the most hippy bullshit i've ever heard.

So, you are saying that the determining factor on where people live should be their place of birth?

Seeing as people have absolutely no control over where they are born, you are the one with the shit of a bull dribbling out of your mouth.

I'm saying you're talking hippy bullshit.
You basically said "let there be open borders".
I called you out on your bullshit, don't get PMS'd at me, deal with it.

Originally posted by long pig
It's trendy for young rich white kids to help poor minorites.
It has been for 50 years now.

Thats why i suspect 99% of those who are against strong border control as using it like it's the "new black".
It's annoying.

Originally posted by long pig
I'm saying you're talking hippy bullshit.
You basically said "let there be open borders".
I called you out on your bullshit, don't get PMS'd at me, deal with it.

its easy when debating an issue to pigeonhole and use strawman tactics.
fyi 'strawman tactics' are the making of a caricature which represents everyone who opposes your view. rather than have our own reasons for our opinions, you label everyone as 'hippies' and 'hipsters', you declare we are all simply following a trend as opposed to our logic, you declare that we just defend them because of 'white guilt'...its all baseless assumptions which only serve to insult and belittle. quite childish and really not helpful for your side of the debate. there are those who present a sound arguement for your side, and right now they are wishing you had not said any of that, since it in turn pigeonholes THEM as childish ignorant bitter racist name-callers.

please think and present a descent arguement.

edit: and nobody said "let there be open borders."
also very annoying to put words in people's mouths. thats called 'lying'.

You're still pissy that I called you on your own bullshit before huh PVS?

That's my problem with your type, you get called out on obvious bullshit and you have a tantrum.

When you get called on bullshit, you take it like a man, you don't make excuses. the end...have some respect.

Lying and paraphrasing are different.
"Everyone was born on Earth, so

The only real borders are the oceans, the rest are just imaginary."

Read it again, maybe your superhuman power of deduction will show you that means exactly what I called him on, his hippy "live and let live" bullshit.

Get real, use you "straw man" theory on someone who cares.

Originally posted by long pig
blah blah PVS blah bullshit blah blah bullshit blah blah blah bulshit i'm right you're wrong

thats what it looks like to me. a whole lot of crying and finger pointing and assumption and nothing helping either side of the debate. just you throwing a tantrum and making a spectacle of yourself. really, i'm just trying to reason with you but i can see now im dealing with a whiney little child who likes to insult and cry unless he gets his way and everyone agrees with him

quit your crying please and then lets have a debate. until then, *hands longpig a tissue*

Now, now, let us be civil, children.

There need not be civility. The borders should be monitored and controlled. Any illegal immigrant should be shot if he/she feels the need to enter the country ilegally. If a person can't follow the rules of citizenship, then they shouldn't be here. Shoot them if you must, but there need not be a debate about the rules of this country. Especially when they protect the people who are already legal citizens. We can debate their economic advatange v. their disadvantage. But, in the long run, they are still no less beholdent to the same rules as everyone else who are here legally. I'm sorry that you weren't born here...but the process still applies. I may resent a lot of the rules that govern this country, but that doesn't make me less beholdent to them. If I disagree withthem, then I can move to another country.

Originally posted by long pig
I'm saying you're talking hippy bullshit.
You basically said "let there be open borders".
I called you out on your bullshit, don't get PMS'd at me, deal with it.

My dear elongated swine, I fail to grasp the logic and rationale behind a belief that a factor that you have absolutely no control over should determine where you live.

Please don't get your nose-rings in a twist just because I highlighted your blatent and pathetic plagairism in the thread you posted in the 'Off-Topic Forum'.

Need reminding? Here you are:

I have no original thoughts, so I'll copy and paste someone else's...

Welcome.

Originally posted by Ou Be Low hoo
My dear elongated swine, I fail to grasp the logic and rationale behind a belief that a factor that you have absolutely no control over should determine where you live.

Please don't get your nose-rings in a twist just because I highlighted your blatent and pathetic plagairism in the thread you posted in the 'Off-Topic Forum'.

Need reminding? Here you are:

I have no original thoughts, so I'll copy and paste someone else's...

Welcome.

...dont you think thats abit irrelvent to this thread?

The thread is about immigration.

My post contained this:



So, I'll answer your question with another question:

Did you understand English?

i was referring to the topic made in off topic. i mean was it really necessary to bring that up?
and theres no need to get all mad now. confused just asking.

Oh dear...It was in reference to the 'bullshit' comment. Congratulations, you have now posted 2 excellent posts that have aboslutely nothing to do the thread. I believe you require some kind of medal? It will be forged in the Smithy of Ignorance...

whatever troll. i tried to be nice and keep this civil.

Ou be, please don't bring up crap that happened in other threads when it is totally irrelevent to the current discussion.

why the hell does everyone have to be so hostile? god i hate it.... its just a message board. ive gotten into a few arguements over nothing with people that take things too seriousy!! calm down

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
If I disagree withthem, then I can move to another country.

um...ok...those in power hate gays and feel you should stay in the closet, be abstinent, and never be happy, forever atoning for your 'sins'. shall i help you pack your bags?

Originally posted by PVS
um...ok...those in power hate gays and feel you should stay in the closet, be abstinent, and never be happy, forever atoning for your 'sins'. shall i help you pack your bags?

I understand what you're saying. But, the rules for governing our own citizens are different. Illegal immigrants are not our citizens. The rules about gay people can change, but the rules shouldn't change with regard to illegal immigrants. I don't really support the idea of shooting anybody, but they are still here illegally. I guess it's kinda like living with your mother. Your mother will let you live with her, despite being gay...but if you broke into someone else's mothers house, then she'll likely shoot you.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
...but if you broke into someone else's mothers house, then she'll likely shoot you.

ok, bad analogies aside, why do you not feel, as i do, that the correct party to punish would be those who hire these illegals rather than the illegals themselves. i dont feel that ANYONE should be shot, or even jailed. rather, i feel that they (the ones who hire) should be hurt in the very place they seek to gain--their wallet. i think the prospect of losing one's business over such a venture would deter people from hiring them.

if their are no jobs to be had, they will have no reason to come here.
its a far better solution than punishing those with little or nothing to lose.
punishment only works when those who would commit a crime have something
to fear.

Originally posted by PVS
ok, bad analogies aside, why do you not feel, as i do, that the correct party to punish would be those who hire these illegals rather than the illegals themselves. i dont feel that ANYONE should be shot, or even jailed. rather, i feel that they (the ones who hire) should be hurt in the very place they seek to gain--their wallet. i think the prospect of losing one's business over such a venture would deter people from hiring them.

if their are no jobs to be had, they will have no reason to come here.
its a far better solution than punishing those with little or nothing to lose.
punishment only works when those who would commit a crime have something
to fear.

It's not that bad an analogy. I mean, come on.

And the people who hire illegal immigrant DO get punished. I brought that up earlier. My granfathers company gets reamed for hiring illegal immigrants. My mother is the VP of human resources and she bitches about it all the time. Not only do they get fined hundreds of thousands of dollars, but they get fined even when there's evidence that the immigrants presented false documents legitimizing their residency. And it isn't always immigrants from Mexico. In the part of NC where she lives, there is a huge Greek population. So, it isn't just Mexicans that illegally enter the country. My opinion isn't reflective of my feelings for people of Mexican origin, it's reflective of all ILLEGAL immigrants. However, Mexican immigrants are the ones that have the greatest chance of being deported and returning over and over again. Every time one is caught and sent back, what is to disuade them from returning? There isn't anything. We find them, put them on a truck and ship them back. I'm not saying that I have the perfect solution to the problem, because if we jail them, then they are still going to be burden on the economy. But just sending them back isn't going to solve anyting either. Maybe we should start cutting off fingers.

Like I said before, I'm willing to bet that most want to be productive citizens and create a better life for themselves and their families. But, there is a process involved.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
IBut just sending them back isn't going to solve anyting either. Maybe we should start cutting off fingers.

you fail to see the truth in your sarcasm it seems. cruel and unusual punishment would be the only deterrant. reason being that they have nothing to lose. thats why i say 'go after the businesses'. because thats the only way i see to solve the problem. to go after those who create the demand and have everything to lose.

as far as your family's business situation, and them getting screwed over...that exhibits a flaw in the system of punishing those who hire. that means that the flaw must be fixed rather than just ditching the system.

a more tight system must be set up so that business owners are NOT held responsible for illegals who forge their papers. simple as that. and as far as the rest who hire illegals and KNOW it (majority) they should have their asses nailed to the wall. start financially crucifying these pricks and you'll see the problem clear up pretty damn quick.

----------A 24-year-old Mexican charged with the Oregon murder of a father and the shooting of his 16-year-old son in a home-invasion robbery is an illegal alien with an Oregon driver's license who has been previously deported from the United States. Juan Carlos Solis is awaiting trial on 41 counts of aggravated murder, attempted murder, assault in the first degree, robbery in the first degree, robbery in the second degree and burglary in the first degree, along with at least three other suspects in the July 2004 home-------

I read that and i thought of this post, go to michaelsavage.com to see the guy in the flesh

I condone cruel and unusual punishment in some ways. Nothing is a better deterrent than excrutiating pain...

Originally posted by PVS
you fail to see the truth in your sarcasm it seems. cruel and unusual punishment would be the only deterrant.

Oh no, I see the truth very well. What I don't see is a viable alternative.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
----------A 24-year-old Mexican charged with the Oregon murder of a father and the shooting of his 16-year-old son in a home-invasion robbery is an illegal alien with an Oregon driver's license who has been previously deported from the United States. Juan Carlos Solis is awaiting trial on 41 counts of aggravated murder, attempted murder, assault in the first degree, robbery in the first degree, robbery in the second degree and burglary in the first degree, along with at least three other suspects in the July 2004 home-------

I read that and i thought of this post, go to michaelsavage.com to see the guy in the flesh
1- mike savage is a bigot douche bag.
2- how does this add to the discussion? there are illegal mexicans who are hardened criminals...which makes them exclusive to everyone else...how?

Originally posted by PVS
ok, bad analogies aside, why do you not feel, as i do, that the correct party to punish would be those who hire these illegals rather than the illegals themselves. i dont feel that ANYONE should be shot, or even jailed. rather, i feel that they (the ones who hire) should be hurt in the very place they seek to gain--their wallet. i think the prospect of losing one's business over such a venture would deter people from hiring them.

if their are no jobs to be had, they will have no reason to come here.
its a far better solution than punishing those with little or nothing to lose.
punishment only works when those who would commit a crime have something
to fear.

Scary..I'm actually going to have to agree with PVS... I believe he's hit the nail right on the head with this issue. The Bush Administration has essentially created an "open door" policy when it comes to mexican illegal immigrants entering this country. Companies that hire illegal immigrants, seem to get nothing but a slap on the hand when they break the law. We definately have to stop this problem at its source, and the source starts with big business. Unfortunately we have a pro big business president in office right now...so stopping the problem ain't going to happen anytime soon.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Scary..I'm actually going to have to agree with PVS... I believe he's hit the nail right on the head with this issue. The Bush Administration has essentially created an "open door" policy when it comes to mexican illegal immigrants entering this country. Companies that hire illegal immigrants, seem to get nothing but a slap on the hand when they break the law. We definately have to stop this problem at its source, and the source starts with big business. Unfortunately we have a pro big business president in office right now...so stopping the problem ain't going to happen anytime soon.

not only that, but if you caught his last SOU address, he plans on regulating migrant workers rather than try to end the problem. meaning they would come over the boarder with temp. government contracts (for dirt pay of coarse).

rich people love illegals. they dont represent lost jobs and a strain on the economy, but rather labor for cheap wages. bush will sooner grow wings and fly before he even attempts to solve this problem. same will go for any president.

Originally posted by PVS
illegal immigrants are not a strain on our economy. the people who hire them and create the demand however, are. usually white upper-middle class americans. erase the demand, you eliminate the supply. vice-versa doesn not work. illegals provide dirt-cheap labor, they risk their lives to get here, get paid horribly, and are worked to the bone. people think of mexicans and they picture some lazy guy with a big moustache a sombrero spending 16 hours a day taking a siesta in the shade. the truth is their lives suck and they try to make the best of it. if any of you were in their shoes you would be stowed away in the first 130degree trailer you could find and be on your way to america.

they cant work and support their families at home, so they go where there is opportunity. people bash on them as if they are stealing our luxuries. bullshit. they are the ones who clean up shit, sweat in factories, and do various other unholy jobs that most people cant be bothered with. its just another abstract 'problem' for people to shake their heads at, but never understand



Yes they are besides most of them dont even speak english

i live a couple thousand miles from the mexican border, and i live in a big city, but alot of people in the bad part of town are illegal aliens...actually alot of ppl like lawn mowers and maids and yard workman in my neighborhood have been dissapearing and my neighbor who is a cop said the Border Patrol arrested them.....its not racist to not want illegal people taking up jobs and are resources in our city if we pay for those things and we work....they should get a green card ....

Immigrants - is the best and worst thing happened to this or any other country in a world!

I have no problem about immigrants at all, as long as they are loyal...