How do you know for sure?

Originally posted by Buddha, long time ago

Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places.
Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it.
Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past.
Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you.
Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests.
After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.

I found my beliefs though testing and logic and tad a little superstition, Tex found Deism through testing and searching and reading..etc (sorry to use you as an example Tex).

Most people found their religion, not by asking, not by searching, researching and the similar, but by blindly accepting

I want to know your thoughts on this -

How do we know, on the religious grounds, that what we've been told is true? How do we know for sure that a long lost prince spoke to a burning bush in a desert? How do we know for sure that a man was killed then resurrected? How do we know for sure that a camel rider, spoke to an Angel in a cave?

How do you know this to be true? Do you believe anything that is written is there by true? If I wrote a book now with my own beliefs and values, and handed it down to a number of tribesmen, generation after generation, centuries after centuries, would my book eventually become the truth even though it wasn't from the beginning?

Would people change my story and my book around depending on what will bring them greater power and control over the tribe?

How do you know your holy book wasn't changed? How do you know, some wicked priestess, Rabi, mullahs, etc... did not make half of the stuff in there up and then passed it off as truth?

How do you know that what all the prophets spoke of was the truth? And how do you know that what they spoke thousands of years ago is what is spoken now?

Are you denying the possibility that men could have interfered and used such books as means of control?

Please note - this isnt argument about existence of God - this is simply a question about practices and your religion - you can believe in a creator, yet have your own morals and principles, not dictated by thousands of year old laws - so the question is - how do you know that all these people, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad were what they said they were?

How do you know? Do you blatantly deny the possibility that one of them, two of them, or all three of them lied? Or how about they all spoke the truth, but that the truth they spoke was not the one that you're practicing now?

Thoughts? Ideas?

Wow...I guess you've been thinking abit lately...

I feel it is true that people follow blindly...Its called faith, and it's used to answer the unexplainable...But there has to come a time in most peoples life where you start looking for the answers to your own questions..You start doing research. You read everything you can lay your hands on and look at both sides and try not to be bias. I feel it is hard to prove or disprove things that are so historically old, but there is proof out there that things have been changed in the Bible...There seems to be much written also that parts of Bible stories and Jesus' life have been taken from myths of Dionysus-Osirus, Mythras, and of all things Horus!! Now these things mimic Bible stories and Jesus' life and were written about 2500 years earlier...Some I have told turn a deaf ear, some I have told come out and say it's not true. And I'm sure there are some that feel I've been mislead by the devil...Unfortunately, these are the people I know. I think it's wise to question everything and to follow no one, if that makes since...I think you'll feel when it's right...And when it's not right you can also feel that also..it's tension, feeling condescending, it's feeling desperate for yourself or others, it's
uneasiness...All these feelings are not from God...So how can you be on the right path if you're feeling these things.

I feel everybody should take a good look at what they are believing and ask themselves why...You shouldn't be believing it just because you think it's cool, or because a group pressured you into it, or even a parent telling you so...It's good to look at all beliefs including the unbelief, Atheism...Everything...get the best proof you can and then live your truth...Just my opinion.. 🙂

Maybe I'll become a Shaman

The cool thing about my beliefs is that they are evolving and never above reproach.

I dont have any holy books or prophets telling me what to do.
God's nature gave me reason, it would be a shame (and an insult to god) not to use it. 🙂

Originally posted by debbiejo
Wow...I guess you've been thinking abit lately...

I feel it is true that people follow blindly...Its called faith, and it's used to answer the unexplainable...But there has to come a time in most peoples life where you start looking for the answers to your own questions..You start doing research. You read everything you can lay your hands on and look at both sides and try not to be bias. I feel it is hard to prove or disprove things that are so historically old, but there is proof out there that things have been changed in the Bible...There seems to be much written also that parts of Bible stories and Jesus' life have been taken from myths of Dionysus-Osirus, Mythras, and of all things Horus!! Now these things mimic Bible stories and Jesus' life and were written about 2500 years earlier...Some I have told turn a deaf ear, some I have told come out and say it's not true. And I'm sure there are some that feel I've been mislead by the devil...Unfortunately, these are the people I know. I think it's wise to question everything and to follow no one, if that makes since...I think you'll feel when it's right...And when it's not right you can also feel that also..it's tension, feeling condescending, it's feeling desperate for yourself or others, it's
uneasiness...All these feelings are not from God...So how can you be on the right path if you're feeling these things.

I feel everybody should take a good look at what they are believing and ask themselves why...You shouldn't be believing it just because you think it's cool, or because a group pressured you into it, or even a parent telling you so...It's good to look at all beliefs including the unbelief, Atheism...Everything...get the best proof you can and then live your truth...Just my opinion.. 🙂

Maybe I'll become a Shaman

Indeed.

However, its not so much about believing and not believing in unexplainable.
If after my soulserching I have found that I would like to believe that Matrix is not a fiction story, but the true state of the world, I have done so because it possibly gives explanation to many unexplained things I have experienced, or (insert possible explanations here)

However, if I am to preach to someone else, I would explain to them why I believe this is true, and they may or may not agree - its not matter of correctness, because of the fact that it is a belief.

Faith is spiritual.

What I am challanging is this notion of faith posed as a fact through Torah, Bible and Quran. At this point, the faith stops being individual and starts being collective.
At this point the faith stops being about deep thoughts and beliefs, but about someone else's code of morality, means of control.

Thus, my challange is about those books and those rules and complsary morality and compulsary religion - its not about abandoning beliefs in sole creator, or Jesus as a teacher of important lessons of life and tolerance, its more about abandining this code and law and the 'one true religion' for all Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Many people do not see beyond this point, thus this whole question is all about how do you know?
Is it really what you believe, or is it something you have been imposed on and/or scared into believing.

you dont know for sure , you believe

you never can know for sure until you die
i think that if the bible truly where changed though that a hole lot of the stories in it wouldn't still be there i mean a hole lot of what it says we are to do and how we are to live isn't popular.

Originally posted by finti
you dont know for sure , you believe

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
...

However, its not so much about believing and not believing in unexplainable.
If after my soulserching I have found that I would like to believe that Matrix is not a fiction story, but the true state of the world, I have done so because it possibly gives explanation to many unexplained things I have experienced, or (insert possible explanations here)

However, if I am to preach to someone else, I would explain to them why I believe this is true, and they may or may not agree - its not matter of correctness, because of the fact that it is a belief.

Faith is spiritual.

What I am challanging is this notion of faith posed as a fact through Torah, Bible and Quran. At this point, the faith stops being individual and starts being collective.
At this point the faith stops being about deep thoughts and beliefs, but about someone else's code of morality, means of control.

Thus, my challange is about those books and those rules and complsary morality and compulsary religion - its not about abandoning beliefs in sole creator, or Jesus as a teacher of important lessons of life and tolerance, its more about abandining this code and law and the 'one true religion' for all Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Many people do not see beyond this point, thus this whole question is all about how do you know?
Is it really what you believe, or is it something you have been imposed on and/or scared into believing.

lil b, I just simplified it a bit

Originally posted by debbiejo
Wow...I guess you've been thinking abit lately...

I feel it is true that people follow blindly...Its called faith, and it's used to answer the unexplainable...But there has to come a time in most peoples life where you start looking for the answers to your own questions..You start doing research. You read everything you can lay your hands on and look at both sides and try not to be bias. I feel it is hard to prove or disprove things that are so historically old, but there is proof out there that things have been changed in the Bible...There seems to be much written also that parts of Bible stories and Jesus' life have been taken from myths of Dionysus-Osirus, Mythras, and of all things Horus!! Now these things mimic Bible stories and Jesus' life and were written about 2500 years earlier...Some I have told turn a deaf ear, some I have told come out and say it's not true. And I'm sure there are some that feel I've been mislead by the devil...Unfortunately, these are the people I know. I think it's wise to question everything and to follow no one, if that makes since...I think you'll feel when it's right...And when it's not right you can also feel that also..it's tension, feeling condescending, it's feeling desperate for yourself or others, it's
uneasiness...All these feelings are not from God...So how can you be on the right path if you're feeling these things.

I feel everybody should take a good look at what they are believing and ask themselves why...You shouldn't be believing it just because you think it's cool, or because a group pressured you into it, or even a parent telling you so...It's good to look at all beliefs including the unbelief, Atheism...Everything...get the best proof you can and then live your truth...Just my opinion.. 🙂

Maybe I'll become a Shaman

^ Nothing better than Cream of Mushroom soup....lol

Originally posted by finti
lil b, I just simplified it a bit

Yeah, sorry. I tend to complicate everything anyway. I do see what you're saying however.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness

its not about abandoning beliefs in sole creator, or Jesus as a teacher of important lessons of life and tolerance, its more about abandining this code and law and the 'one true religion' for all Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

So your talking about new age then?

Actually, a New Age belief would do away with many of the arguments on whos religion is right...Because they all are.

Debbiejoe

New Age belief? And your point...? In what way are ALL religions right? The only religions that even begin to show truth are monotheistic religions, such as Judaism, Islam and Christianity. They all entail the notion of one God. None compare. Yes, Judaism is one with Christianity, but the practices are different. Nevermind that for now.

Christianity contains more evidents through science, archeology and secular history than any other, not to mention prophecy. Any one who takes the time to sift through the pros and cons realizes that fact. Do the research!

What religion shows more promise than Christianity? We could ramble all day, but truth is usually backed by facts, not philosophy like many other religions. The circumstantial evidence supporting Christianity is powerful, and demands in depth study. If Christianity is false, why all the evidence stating otherwise?

You would really have to have a passive attitude not to notice. Be fair.

God being who he is would not be the cause of all the wars and fights here, in my opinion. The" I'm right and you're wrong and you along with billions of people are going to hell." Every religion points its finger at the others. Even within the Christian community do they point fingers at each other. This cannot be what God had in mind when He said to love each other. Besides the concept of hell came much later in 150 A.D. By the Roman Church. Religion needs to be done away with, it's the cause of bigotry and hatred. We will never have peace until people practice the essence of their faith, which is to love each other. That's how you know them, by their love for each other...

Besides as I have mentioned and shown before, the scriptures have been manipulated by the early Roman church for control of the people and for their money (To pay for the Cathedrals) and for the control of land. It was an Empire just like any other one, but used God as a control. How ingenious of them.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Debbiejoe

New Age belief? And your point...? In what way are ALL religions right? The only religions that even begin to show truth are monotheistic religions, such as Judaism, Islam and Christianity. They all entail the notion of one God. None compare. Yes, Judaism is one with Christianity, but the practices are different. Nevermind that for now.

Christianity contains more evidents through science, archeology and secular history than any other, not to mention prophecy. Any one who takes the time to sift through the pros and cons realizes that fact. Do the research!

What religion shows more promise than Christianity? We could ramble all day, but truth is usually backed by facts, not philosophy like many other religions. The circumstantial evidence supporting Christianity is powerful, and demands in depth study. If Christianity is false, why all the evidence stating otherwise?

You would really have to have a passive attitude not to notice. Be fair.

Well for one, Hinduism beliefs that ALL religions are correct, but it is the uptightness of Judaism, Christianity and Islam which makes them believe that they are the only right religion - hence the religious hate.

Personaly, this is what I think ALL religions should be like...

Hindu Gods say -

Although I am in every religion, I am beyond all religions...
I am beyond all dualities... of Good / Evil, of Love / Hate, of Pleasure/Pain....
.... your anger, your bitterness,
does not bother Me at all....
there is no "bad" thing which you could do,
.... or "good" thing which you could fail to do...
which would prevent Me from perfecting you to that purpose
for which I ultimately created you.

lil bitchiness

Hinduism is a pantheistic religion. Instead of having a belief in God as Creator and distinct from the world, pantheistic religions, while different from each other in their own right, claim that the world is actually identical with God.

In Hinduism, for example, God is really Brahman, or the ultimate power underlying the universe. Everything comes from Brahman and everything returns to it.

The differences in belief between Christianity and pantheistic religions are great. For example, if God is in everything, then it follows that God is in both good and evil, rather than separate from it. Therefore, good and evil become relative, even illusionary terms. Additionally, while Judaism, Christianity and Islam focus on a written Word of God given to man, pantheistic religions tend to focus on private mystical experiences and philosophy instead.

Christianity claims to be a historical faith, directly tied to real space-and-time history. Given that, it's either literally true and far more than a feel-good kick, or false and therefore not worth investing your emotions in.

debbiejoe

The Holy Bible has 24,750 original manuscripts, which paves the way to cross-checking for accuracy. The Holy Bible has a textual accuracy of 99.5 percent. The Dead Sea Scrolls (which were found less than 100 years ago) amongst others verify this.

debbiejoe

The only religion in the world (to my knowledge) that teaches violence and murder is Islam. The book of Koran has an entire book devoted to Jihad. The terrorists involved in the 9/11 tragedy, conducted themsleves in the name of Allah, to die as martyrs and find eternal life in Heaven. What a great religion, when children strap bombs to themselves and blow up buildings loaded with inocent people. And the parents are proud! They do it for Allah.

There is no "for sure" when it comes to religious beliefs, faith and fact have no place together, anyone who claims to KNOW that what they believe is "for sure" is wrong.