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Okay i getting a little pissed with all you people talking about speed of light travel. Even if it was possible , and im not saying it is, when you reach the speed of light the mass of the object increases to infinite, which means you would create infinite gravity causing INFINITE GRAVITY OBJECTS WILL ACCELERATE TOWARDS THAT BODY APPROACHING THE SPEED OF LIGHT AND CAUSE THE UNIVERSE TO IMPLODE!

end of conversation ( you can reply if you like )

cool

lol : lol :

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
cool

Well said.

Light travels at the speed of light...universe is not destroyed yet...

but light doesn't have a mass.

light doesn't have a rest mass, the act of accelerating to the speed of light gives everything an effective mass, even light...

however your situation is physically impossible, since you'd require infinate energy, which, obviously, doesn't exist - but i'm guessing thats the point you were trying to make.

not really, infinite gravity does exist in singularities such as black holes, that doesnt destroy the universe, plus the universe is not exactly finite in size is it, its bended around itself and zero point energy is supposedly infinte too.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
not really, infinite gravity does exist in singularities such as black holes, that doesnt destroy the universe, plus the universe is not exactly finite in size is it, its bended around itself and zero point energy is supposedly infinte too.

black holes dont have infinite gravity, just infinite density

uhhhh, infinite density = infinite gravity inside the event horizon of a black hole

Originally posted by argen angel
Okay i getting a little pissed with all you people talking about speed of light travel. Even if it was possible , and im not saying it is, when you reach the speed of light the mass of the object increases to infinite, which means you would create infinite gravity causing INFINITE GRAVITY OBJECTS WILL ACCELERATE TOWARDS THAT BODY APPROACHING THE SPEED OF LIGHT AND CAUSE THE UNIVERSE TO IMPLODE!

end of conversation ( you can reply if you like )

To that I say....






























































































































































































































































































This is the philosophy forum, not the physics forum.

The speed of thought would be much quicker. Besides we ARE all light particles. Since we are all light particles with thought we can move pretty darn quick.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
but light doesn't have a mass.

Ah, i guess you've never heard of wave/particle duality then....

And particles have a mass...

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
black holes dont have infinite gravity, just infinite density


i remember bits and peices about that in physics. black holes dont destroy matter, but it condenses it, and sends it somewhere across the universe, exiting from a white hole.

because matter can not be created or destroyed

Ah, i guess you've never heard of wave/particle duality then....

And particles have a mass...


light is a "MASSLESS" particle, the wave particle duality can work for any particle, with or without MASS, particles dont have to have mass, gravitons have no mass, photons have no mass among many other partcles. the only MASS they have is of energy, but thas not really mass at all, they only use terms like a photon has so n so gigaelectron volts of mass because mass and energy can be interchanged in some places and when talking about such small scale energyies, its better to convert the energy into mass.

travelling locally at C might do that, good thing its not really possible to do.

thats why a version of the "warp drive" will be nessassary to actually travel at C...

read: The Warp Drive: Hyper-Fast Travel Within General Relativity. by Miguel Alcubierre

http://www.members.shaw.ca/mike.anderton/WarpDrive.pdf

You dont need to create infinite gravity and all that shit... travel speed of light.. it already is possible to stop light... some dude did back in 2000 so if you stop light.. then it's not moving... you follow the logical steps from that.. and ........... need i say more/??

haha

You know black holes? I think that there are other solar systems with civilizations, and whenever an equivilant of a scientist on that planet finds a way to send a small object at the speed of light, he accidentally creates a black hole which kills everyone and sucks in the planet and the star of that solar system. It'll eventually happen here, too.

Change a diaper....then you'll see a black hole.

If you get banned for this crap i'll believe there is a God.
And His name be Awesome, The Mighty!

If something was traveling faster then the speed of light, How would we know? We would not see it traveling faster. No matter how fast it traveled the light from it would only travel at the speed of light.

Originally posted by argen angel
Okay i getting a little pissed with all you people talking about speed of light travel. Even if it was possible , and im not saying it is, when you reach the speed of light the mass of the object increases to infinite, which means you would create infinite gravity causing INFINITE GRAVITY OBJECTS WILL ACCELERATE TOWARDS THAT BODY APPROACHING THE SPEED OF LIGHT AND CAUSE THE UNIVERSE TO IMPLODE!

end of conversation ( you can reply if you like )

The infinite mass as concerns FTL travel I think has to do with the idea that you will need an infinite amount of energy to accelerate a body to the speed of light because of space time-dilation. I don't think it has anything to do with gravity. The reason Eistein said it isn't possible is because of the inifite energy required, not because of gravity.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
but light doesn't have a mass.

Photons are strange in that they don't exhibit exclusively partical or wave behavior. Actually, light does carry mass without volume. That is the theoretical basis for solar sails.

Originally posted by argen angel
Okay i getting a little pissed with all you people talking about speed of light travel. Even if it was possible , and im not saying it is, when you reach the speed of light the mass of the object increases to infinite, which means you would create infinite gravity causing INFINITE GRAVITY OBJECTS WILL ACCELERATE TOWARDS THAT BODY APPROACHING THE SPEED OF LIGHT AND CAUSE THE UNIVERSE TO IMPLODE!

end of conversation ( you can reply if you like )

Since when was the speed of light infinite?

Originally posted by DarkAge
Since when was the speed of light infinite?



Yeah I must concur that light speed is not infinite.
If it was then it could not be calculated nor even picked up and
interpreted by any kind of machinery none to man.
Now warp speed is interesting. Instead of propelling oneself through "space" why not rearrange and fold time around you much like a fast forward on a dvd to get where you go.
Question is how in God's name do you even begin to build a machine to do that?

Of course light has mass, it's just really light, hence the name. What doesn't have mass except space?

Originally posted by Atlantis001
I know that the particle-wave duality is not the same as the mass-energy equivalence made by Einstein. I meant that the energy associated to light cannot be associated to a mass(so light doesn't have a mass, and mass-energy eq. cannot be made in this case), we could use E=mc^2 to obtain a value to its mass but it doesn't have any physical meaning.

Hi Atlantis001

Light in motion has mass, but at rest the mass is zero. If light changes speed by going through water, does it's mass change. If the answer is yes, then E=mc^2 does matter. If the answer is no, then you are correct.

Originally posted by argen angel
Okay i getting a little pissed with all you people talking about speed of light travel. Even if it was possible , and im not saying it is, when you reach the speed of light the mass of the object increases to infinite, which means you would create infinite gravity causing INFINITE GRAVITY OBJECTS WILL ACCELERATE TOWARDS THAT BODY APPROACHING THE SPEED OF LIGHT AND CAUSE THE UNIVERSE TO IMPLODE!

end of conversation ( you can reply if you like )





Originally posted by DarkAge
Since when was the speed of light infinite?

If you read the original post no where is it stated the speed of light is infinite.

1.

who the hell told you that.......energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. It's quite easy to destroy matter.

2. Black holes do not have infinite gravity. Infact, not all have the same gravitational pull. The gravitational pull is directly dependant upon the mass of the object that once rested in that space.

3. Travelling at the speed of light is impossible. As mentioned by others, as an object approaches the speed of light, it's mass becomes infinite........requiring infinite energy, which does not exist and is impossible to create (see #1).

4. The speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second ........I didn't see it asked anywhere but somebody was talking about infinite or something.

5. The originator of this thread is a bit off. The STRENGTH of the the gravitational pull caused by infinite mass would be infinite.......not it's range. It would not simply "implode the universe". It would merely attract anything (no matter the mass of the object) close enough to be affected by it. It is actually quite possible that the very center of the universe has infinite gravity.......that galaxies are all orbiting around it (just like a solar system)..........at different speeds (based on the individual mass of the galaxies) to account for spacial separation between them that is often brought up in the "the universe is ever expanding outward from the big bang" theory.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
1.

who the hell told you that.......energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only change form. It's quite easy to destroy matter.

2. Black holes do not have infinite gravity. Infact, not all have the same gravitational pull. The gravitational pull is directly dependant upon the mass of the object that once rested in that space.

3. Travelling at the speed of light is impossible. As mentioned by others, as an object approaches the speed of light, it's mass becomes infinite........requiring infinite energy, which does not exist and is impossible to create (see #1).

4. The speed of light is 299,792,458 meters per second ........I didn't see it asked anywhere but somebody was talking about infinite or something.

5. The originator of this thread is a bit off. The STRENGTH of the the gravitational pull caused by infinite mass would be infinite.......not it's range. It would not simply "implode the universe". It would merely attract anything (no matter the mass of the object) close enough to be affected by it. It is actually quite possible that the very center of the universe has infinite gravity.......that galaxies are all orbiting around it (just like a solar system)..........at different speeds (based on the individual mass of the galaxies) to account for spacial separation between them that is often brought up in the "the universe is ever expanding outward from the big bang" theory.


Law of conservation of matter: matter cannot be created nor destroyed least thats what I learned in school but maybe those books were out of date.

Atlantis001> Ah, then we are in agreement.

Shaky> No, light does NOT have mass. Not even if it is slowed passing through and atmosphere of through water. E=hf=h(n/c), where h is placks constant, f the frequency of light, n its wavelength and c the speed of light.

Originally posted by The Omega
Atlantis001> Ah, then we are in agreement.

Shaky> No, light does NOT have mass. Not even if it is slowed passing through and atmosphere of through water. E=hf=h(n/c), where h is placks constant, f the frequency of light, n its wavelength and c the speed of light.

Thanks...

I was just pointing out the conditions needed to make a point; it was so long ago that I don't remember the point and I'm too lazy to back read. However, at rest, a photon might have mass, but this is not known, no one can detect a photon at rest. According to what I've read, the current theories don't agree with observations in all cases. If light did have mass, then the primus in Relatively that an object with mass cannot travel faster than the speed of light is not true. The increase in mass would have a limit.

Neutrinos

Your assumption is that the matter which accelerates to the speed of light remains on this plane of reality. Of course that would be impossible, as you say. So the speed of light cannot actually be acheived, but by changing planes, then traveling a distance, and changing planes back, one can create the effect of having gone the speed of light. This concept is like hyperspace in Star Wars, or Warp speed in Star Trek. Both methods behave in a manner that seems to be many times the speed of light.

JediMusician> What "planes"... ?
We have detected no more dimensions in the Universe tha four. If there existed more, then matter would enter and exit these planes (because they CAN) and we'd see it.
Warp speed ala Star Trek is not about "other planes". It deals with manipulating gravity, so you compress spacetime in front of a space-craft and stretch it out behind it, effectively creating a space-time-bubble. Relatively to the space-time bubble the ship would not exceed the speed of light, but the space-time bubble itself would. We know the Universe is expanding at speeds greater than the speed of light, so spacetime itself can do that.

How to make warp-bubbles? Wellll... you need matter with some rather peculiar properties (negative densities), but hey... Let's cross our fingers that the new LHC in CERN will finally kill String-Theory so all the bright physicist start doing some useful quantum gravity and then... who knows?