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Yeah, but Americans are content with having a dark lord of the sith for a president. It's Darth Cheney we've got to watch.

Where is there any thunderous applause in today's world events?

*plays the Imperial March combined with Hail to the Chief*

stupid.....correlating todays world events and george bush to revenge of the sith is a pretty far stretch of imagination to say the least. Its shows how far down the tiolet partisan politics can bring you

Politics is not allowed in this forum

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Where is there any thunderous applause in today's world events?

Well, I watched your State Of The Union on CNN early this year, and I remembered all the "thunderous applause" accompanying standing ovations....

yea because george bush shoots lightning from his hands and uses the darkside of the force to cloud peoples minds so he can take control of the galaxy. Perfect fit.

You do realize by saying George is Palps you are also saying he is one of the coolest villains ever and can act really well

There is always applause during state of the union. It is just tradition. It doesn't matter who is the President or what he does.... mickey mouse could get up there and say he wants to legalize child slavery and he would get a thunderous applause.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Where is there any thunderous applause in today's world events? Wait 'til May 19th!!
clapclappingclapclapclappingclapping

Pleae, the Patriot Act is EXACTLY like the chanellor's emergency powers. Racism and fear in the guise of security. And congress is happy to approve it, even lengthen it! The war in Iraq, yeah, like the Clone Wars, a nice destraction while the most powerful 1% continues to bend us over and have at it, no lube. We (the US) tell everyone what they will do or we threaten to invade. Gee, that doesn't sound like the Empire. We essentially take over places, "help" set up new government, government that will do as we see fit, and then we move along. Yeah, no Imperial connection there. Wake up America, you're losing your rights more and more day by day, through things like the FCC, the Patriot Act, its all in your best interests, all to protect you from having to think for yourself.

Mephisto, respect... always nice to meet an American with eyes...
(btw i'm not trying to unleash a political flamewar here)

i think no matter where you go leadership is corrupt to whatever degree. America is no more different than anywhere else, and i would definatley live under Bush's rule than say Castro, who is a REAL dictator. You live off rations given to you by the government in cuba, pretty nice huh? Yea in America you can say anything thats on your mind, tolerance twoards otehr people is stressed, and America gives foriegn aid to countries constantly. I think America has become the big boogie man and allot of the reasons are built with straw men. Sure America has its awful blemishes, but what country doesn't? If you want to get technical leaderships for human beings for the most part are tyranical, lets not just pick on Bush because its the popular thing to do. Who should we relate Tony Blair too? Darth vader because he is helping the emporer (Bush) get done what he wants after being suckered in to siding with him?? Common this is stupid.

If you look at it like that the terrorists could be mirror images of the jedi.......

..................right

Okay, I'm wondering if this is supposed to be either critical or complementary, because not only does Palpatine just beat the crap out of the opposition but we end up rooting for him in the end.

Now everyone is all serious about this! You can imagine real-world parallels all you want, and yes, they seem to fit..BUT Episode 1 and the overall political plot of all 3 prequels, was written in 1997!!!! 1997!!! BEFORE 9/11, BEFORE this current 'war' in Iraq, BEFORE all of the parallels mentioned above! Ergo and therefore, it is either coincidence or Lucas is psychic. I'm going with coincidence.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
There is always applause during state of the union. It is just tradition. It doesn't matter who is the President or what he does.... mickey mouse could get up there and say he wants to legalize child slavery and he would get a thunderous applause.

That warrants extreme laughter, if you ask me...

Originally posted by woman_beater69
If you look at it like that the terrorists could be mirror images of the jedi.......

..................right

Okay, I'm wondering if this is supposed to be either critical or complementary, because not only does Palpatine just beat the crap out of the opposition but we end up rooting for him in the end.

exactly jedi's are religeos types, people that kill in the name of allah are religeos types as well. They say that Allah is with them. Jedi say they are with the force.
hhhmmmmm
well now that we figured out bush in the emp and religeos zealot terorists are jedi i think i am gonna change my name to Movie Ali and start helping to fund islamic terrorist cells since in fact, they are only fighting against an evil dictator, wich is a righteos cause

Let's see, instances in which a Chancellor has taken emergency powers and dominated a Republic, creating an Empire...

Sounds like the Third Reich. You're all off. GL, just like his Indy trend, is anti-Nazi and it shows. Now for the next dark threat...

Originally posted by Darth Plagueis
Now everyone is all serious about this! You can imagine real-world parallels all you want, and yes, they seem to fit..BUT Episode 1 and the overall political plot of all 3 prequels, was written in 1997!!!! 1997!!! BEFORE 9/11, BEFORE this current 'war' in Iraq, BEFORE all of the parallels mentioned above! Ergo and therefore, it is either coincidence or Lucas is psychic. I'm going with coincidence.

That's what makes it scary, as McCallum said when asked about these parallel's 'George is simply telling the story of how dictator's come to power and the public hands over their rights, any parallel's to today's events are purely coincidental', which he said very tongue in cheek.

Originally posted by moviejunkie23
Yea in America you can say anything thats on your mind, tolerance twoards otehr people is stressed, and America gives foriegn aid to countries constantly.

Yes, they promote tolerance. And then pass the Patriot Act which allows ANYONE merely SUSPECTED of terrorism (and what's to stop them from simply accusing anyone of being a suspect, much like McCarthyism) for any amount of time. No limits. You can simply disappear. And don't say it hasn't happened because it has. The FBI detained a guy for three months, his family wasn't notified. This happened late last year. And then there's all the racial bias in Law Enforcement. And then there's all the accepted racism that just goes on unchecked because its gets passed off as "only joking". Yeah, go ask any minority what they think about the US gov. and its promoting of tolerance and watch them laugh hysterically.

And foreign aid? yeah, after we've bombed your neighborhoods and hospitals. You know the first 16, SIXTEEN, "smart missle" attacks on Iraq MISSED their targets SIGNIFICANTLY? you know where they went? into neighborhoods and hospitals. And these aren't little shoulder mounted rockets, we're taking HUGE amounts of devistation. So yeah, how nice of us to drop aid which they wouldn't have even needed if WE HADN'T CREATED THE NEED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And this stuff about the Jedi being the terrorists, think about that for a second. the Jedi and the Rebellion are pinned as terrorists by the Empire, but who do we route for? That's right, the Rebellion and the Jedi because they're being misrepresented. I'm not saying all terrorism is justified, I'm just saying you have to consider the source, something not terribly common in this country. Things get taken out of context all the time.

Yeah I agree.... I really feel for the Iraqis too it must be so hard for them to give up their state sponsored rape and murder. In fact I'm pen pals with an Iraqi. He tells me it's very tough on his family to be able to speak their minds now without the threat of torture and death. They don't know what to do with themselves!

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
Let's see, instances in which a Chancellor has taken emergency powers and dominated a Republic, creating an Empire...

Sounds like the Third Reich. You're all off. GL, just like his Indy trend, is anti-Nazi and it shows. Now for the next dark threat...

Yeah, and the current American political situation is starting to mirror it just as much as Star Wars. God, I can't believe how literal some people are. He also based it on the Roman Empire in many ways as WELL as Nazism. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX PEOPLE OF AMERICA.

This is how dictators rise, the people are pacified by being under the rule of someone who tells them what they want to hear. Rulers who give them a common enemy to hate, like Hitler. Like those who ran the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, like the Holocaust. You hand the public an enemy, spin it in a way which allows them to jump to their own conclusions, the conclusion that the creator of the spin carefully drew them to but allowed them to do on their own. They then get riled up, stop thinking on their own, get a blood lust going, and then the public is puddy in your hands. they want blood, they want "justice". They'll let you do or say anything in order to achieve this goal (ie--Patriot Act/Emergency Powers). You give them a bone, you string them along, you tell them you're so close, and then you hand them a victory of some kind (death of Dooku/capture of Sadaam) and again, their puddy in your hands. Then you keep your powers, like how they haven't repealed the Patriot Act.

And all through this, they create an air of patriotism, loyalism, and nationalism, and that any other mindset (like mine/the Jedi/anyone with half a brain and open eyes) is vilified as unloyal and a threat. You now live in fear, of both this new enemy AND not appearing loyal to your government. So you keep letting the government do anything they claim they need to MAINTAIN this security. And you're done. You're owned by your government. You think what they wanted you to think, you react how they wanted you to react. And this lasts until people finally smarten up and rebel. Then you have them. That's it, you control them and they let you. Liberty died to thunderous applause.

Also, it's completely unsound to take a past "prediction" and apply it to any modern events.

It's incredibly easy to look at things that have already happened and say that they were predicted by the Bible or Nostradamus or something. Take the Bible and Nostradamus and try to take something and predict the future, on the other hand, and you will find it very difficult to be successful.

Bottom line, no matter what was going on right now in the world, it would be very easy to find something that we could say the Ep. 3 was commenting on.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Yeah, and the current American political situation is starting to mirror it just as much as Star Wars. God, I can't believe how literal some people are. He also based it on the Roman Empire in many ways as WELL as Nazism. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX PEOPLE OF AMERICA.

This is how dictators rise, the people are pacified by being under the rule of someone who tells them what they want to hear. Rulers who give them a common enemy to hate, like Hitler. Like those who ran the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, like the Holocaust. You hand the public an enemy, spin it in a way which allows them to jump to their own conclusions, the conclusion that the creator of the spin carefully drew them to but allowed them to do on their own. They then get riled up, stop thinking on their own, get a blood lust going, and then the public is puddy in your hands. they want blood, they want "justice". They'll let you do or say anything in order to achieve this goal (ie--Patriot Act/Emergency Powers). You give them a bone, you string them along, you tell them you're so close, and then you hand them a victory of some kind (death of Dooku/capture of Sadaam) and again, their puddy in your hands. Then you keep your powers, like how they haven't repealed the Patriot Act.

And all through this, they create an air of patriotism, loyalism, and nationalism, and that any other mindset (like mine/the Jedi/anyone with half a brain and open eyes) is vilified as unloyal and a threat. You now live in fear, of both this new enemy AND not appearing loyal to your government. So you keep letting the government do anything they claim they need to MAINTAIN this security. And you're done. You're owned by your government. You think what they wanted you to think, you react how they wanted you to react. And this lasts until people finally smarten up and rebel. Then you have them. That's it, you control them and they let you. Liberty died to thunderous applause.


http://www.cwposse.org/cgi-script/csPublisher/library/bush_country2.jpg

Boo-ya!

Originally posted by woman_beater69
http://www.cwposse.org/cgi-script/csPublisher/library/bush_country2.jpg

Boo-ya!








.... but I'm from Massachusettes

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Yeah I agree.... I really feel for the Iraqis too it must be so hard for them to give up their state sponsored rape and murder. In fact I'm pen pals with an Iraqi. He tells me it's very tough on his family to be able to speak their minds now without the threat of torture and death. They don't know what to do with themselves!

Yes, its good that's all ended. But the reasons behind it are still wrong. And the end DOESN'T justify the means. Sorry, Bush isn't a hero because his lies yeilded a bit of good. He's so dumb he's managed to do something right, to bad he had to lie to the American people and piss off the rest of the world to do it. Doesn't anyone care that they were lied to? completely mis-lead?

I'm sorry you can't see past the propaganda you've been spoon fed by the news. I'm sorry you've fallen right into the mindset they want you to have. I'm sorry you're a tool of the government who can't think for himself and realize he was lied to for three years straight, simply because they managed to get Sadaam finally. Why was it so hard the last few times? Hmmm? it wasn't, it just wasn't convienient for us at the time. It wasn't gonna have the impact it had this time, its wasn't gonna trap the general public (ie-you) into NOT being angry that there WERE NO WEAPONS. There were NO LABS. EVERY reason we went into there for was a LIE. Then they smartened up and started pointing out the rape and stuff. How come they didn't start with that? because they DIDN"T CARE! They got what they wanted, and no ones mad because we caught our villan. Theres a great big elephant in the room of America, and nobody will point it out because 'that's not patriotic and democratic to question your government'.

Get a clue.

The EMPEROR has a response to that...

http://clk.about.com/?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fanon.salon.speedera.net%2Fanon.salon%2Fmedia%2F2004%2F10%2FBushUncensored.mov

And I didn't say anything about crazy bible predictions Lazer, I'm talking about history repeating itself. But nice comparison, really didn't sound like probaganda-being-repeated-by-someone-who-didn't-really-understand-in-the-first-place at all!

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Yeah, and the current American political situation is starting to mirror it just as much as Star Wars. God, I can't believe how literal some people are. He also based it on the Roman Empire in many ways as WELL as Nazism. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX PEOPLE OF AMERICA.

This is how dictators rise, the people are pacified by being under the rule of someone who tells them what they want to hear. Rulers who give them a common enemy to hate, like Hitler. Like those who ran the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials, like the Holocaust. You hand the public an enemy, spin it in a way which allows them to jump to their own conclusions, the conclusion that the creator of the spin carefully drew them to but allowed them to do on their own. They then get riled up, stop thinking on their own, get a blood lust going, and then the public is puddy in your hands. they want blood, they want "justice". They'll let you do or say anything in order to achieve this goal (ie--Patriot Act/Emergency Powers). You give them a bone, you string them along, you tell them you're so close, and then you hand them a victory of some kind (death of Dooku/capture of Sadaam) and again, their puddy in your hands. Then you keep your powers, like how they haven't repealed the Patriot Act.

And all through this, they create an air of patriotism, loyalism, and nationalism, and that any other mindset (like mine/the Jedi/anyone with half a brain and open eyes) is vilified as unloyal and a threat. You now live in fear, of both this new enemy AND not appearing loyal to your government. So you keep letting the government do anything they claim they need to MAINTAIN this security. And you're done. You're owned by your government. You think what they wanted you to think, you react how they wanted you to react. And this lasts until people finally smarten up and rebel. Then you have them. That's it, you control them and they let you. Liberty died to thunderous applause.

God, I can't believe how literal some people are.

And I can't believe you didn't see the joke I was making. You've got that conspiracy theory jammed so far up your ass it must click when you speak against the back of your teeth.

Why don't you try being a bit more sensitive and not be such an overbearing ass. I know as well as you do that modern America is another facist nation in the works. Hell, I've spoken on it many times, in this very board. But if you're gonna be a pedagogue, at least have some consideration. It's likely that I know more than you about the Roman Empire as well as history in general, but you're passing it off like I'm some naive Amerikaner who doesn't know the truth from a brand name. And I don't appreciate that.

Many of the things used in the Patriot Act are also used against drug dealers, and its worked. I have no problem, if Im not bad, they wont bother me, I do not want another 9/11, but anyway, Star Wars is more about the Nazis than anything.

Originally posted by phinney6
Many of the things used in the Patriot Act are also used against drug dealers, and its worked. I have no problem, if Im not bad, they wont bother me, I do not want another 9/11, but anyway, Star Wars is more about the Nazis than anything.

Exactly.

Here's the problem: he SHOULD be lying! (in this case, anyways)

Something like WWII is clear cut, you tell the people the way it is: "Japan attacked us, so we're at war with them. We also have to stop the threat in Europe, as it's getting way out of hand."

That's easy. Not everything in world politics and in war is that easy. For example, there is a very prominent theory by an ex-high ranking CIA official that the invasion of Iraq was essentially "blackmail." Basically, the theory states Bush saw all sorts of trouble in the Middle East, such as Iran, Lybia, Syria, Lebanon, etc. He is to have decided to invade Iraq essentially to make the other countries realize the US means business, and they had better cut the nuclear garbage and all the other stuff they were up to. (If this was the strategy, it has worked well as many countries in that region have succumbed and given up illegal and dangerous practices).

Now tell me: if this was the strategy, could Bush have said that? Imagine the press conference:

"My fellow Americans: there is much trouble in the Middle East. Too many countries are violating international law, and too many leaders are stockpiling dangerous weapons. Even though we can't take them ALL out, we have decided to invade Iraq in hopes that the other countries will be fooled into falling into line."

That's the problem. It's possible Bush just made a major mistake. On the other hand, it's possible that he knows some kind of information that only 5 people in the world know, and that neither you nor I have any hope of EVER knowing that would cause disaster were it to be given to the general public. When it comes to war, lies are REQUIRED. That was Geraldo's problem when he gave away troop locations on live TV. You can't do that! Lies are required in war and in world politics. Not always, and most often truth is demanded. However, there are instances where anything but a lie would be disaster. This COULD be one of them.

That's why it's TOTALLY WRONG to have media coverage of stuff like this as in-depth as it is. It completely undermines the national security of the country.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Yes, its good that's all ended. But the reasons behind it are still wrong. And the end DOESN'T justify the means. Sorry, Bush isn't a hero because his lies yeilded a bit of good. He's so dumb he's managed to do something right, to bad he had to lie to the American people and piss off the rest of the world to do it. Doesn't anyone care that they were lied to? completely mis-lead?

I'm sorry you can't see past the propaganda you've been spoon fed by the news. I'm sorry you've fallen right into the mindset they want you to have. I'm sorry you're a tool of the government who can't think for himself and realize he was lied to for three years straight, simply because they managed to get Sadaam finally. Why was it so hard the last few times? Hmmm? it wasn't, it just wasn't convienient for us at the time. It wasn't gonna have the impact it had this time, its wasn't gonna trap the general public (ie-you) into NOT being angry that there WERE NO WEAPONS. There were NO LABS. EVERY reason we went into there for was a LIE. Then they smartened up and started pointing out the rape and stuff. How come they didn't start with that? because they DIDN"T CARE! They got what they wanted, and no ones mad because we caught our villan. Theres a great big elephant in the room of America, and nobody will point it out because 'that's not patriotic and democratic to question your government'.

Get a clue.

Its funny when you call us mislead when the majority of liberal accusations are based on conspiracy theories without real facts, and close-minded opinions that believe every anti-bush article from every opinioned newspaper with liberal journalists. Also the NBC, CBS, ABC, left-wing news which will post whats happening but also post the negative things that bush does to people and the "hard time" we are haivng over in iraq when the majority of Iraq is peaceful (talk to the actual troops over there). The media likes to get the people stirred up and ususally against Bush. You say they aren't hard on him enough, Its not the medias job to be hard on a President. Its to report the FACTS only. But they usually have these analysts who try to find what bad the Bush things are doing. They also usually give what the President does without saying what he's doing it for, without saying why he's doing it, it looks bad on him and against does towarsds anti-bushism

www.mediaresearch.org

this website will actually report how the cbs, nbc, abc media reports, or should I say DOESN'T report why Bush does the things he does. There is a logical reason

WOW.

"...it's TOTALLY WRONG to have media coverage of stuff like this as in-depth as it is. It completely undermines the national security of the country".

Thank you, I could not have had my point about people being brain washed by governments/empires more beautifully illustrated.

I have friends and family in Iraq right now. Don't buy the hype folks. The plan is working. Hell, a Kurd was just elected president. What kind of message is that?

Also, and this just tickles me pink, there is a currently movement underway by the Iraqis themselves (and this is no lie) to erect two statues. One will be of an American soldier and the other will be of Bush.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Here's the problem: he SHOULD be lying! (in this case, anyways)

Something like WWII is clear cut, you tell the people the way it is: "Japan attacked us, so we're at war with them. We also have to stop the threat in Europe, as it's getting way out of hand."

That's easy. Not everything in world politics and in war is that easy. For example, there is a very prominent theory by an ex-high ranking CIA official that the invasion of Iraq was essentially "blackmail." Basically, the theory states Bush saw all sorts of trouble in the Middle East, such as Iran, Lybia, Syria, Lebanon, etc. He is to have decided to invade Iraq essentially to make the other countries realize the US means business, and they had better cut the nuclear garbage and all the other stuff they were up to. (If this was the strategy, it has worked well as many countries in that region have succumbed and given up illegal and dangerous practices).

Now tell me: if this was the strategy, could Bush have said that? Imagine the press conference:

"My fellow Americans: there is much trouble in the Middle East. Too many countries are violating international law, and too many leaders are stockpiling dangerous weapons. Even though we can't take them ALL out, we have decided to invade Iraq in hopes that the other countries will be fooled into falling into line."

That's the problem. It's possible Bush just made a major mistake. On the other hand, it's possible that he knows some kind of information that only 5 people in the world know, and that neither you nor I have any hope of EVER knowing that would cause disaster were it to be given to the general public. When it comes to war, lies are REQUIRED. That was Geraldo's problem when he gave away troop locations on live TV. You can't do that! Lies are required in war and in world politics. Not always, and most often truth is demanded. However, there are instances where anything but a lie would be disaster. This COULD be one of them.

That's why it's TOTALLY WRONG to have media coverage of stuff like this as in-depth as it is. It completely undermines the national security of the country.

yeah and that's why WWII was supported. Imagine if the media reported every singe death of WWII like they did in Iraq. We would have more people saying to us to pull out, and we all know what would happen if we did pull out.

The Battle of the Bulge would be a quagmire according to Teddy Kennedy.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus
God, I can't believe how literal some people are.

And I can't believe you didn't see the joke I was making. You've got that conspiracy theory jammed so far up your ass it must click when you speak against the back of your teeth.

Why don't you try being a bit more sensitive and not be such an overbearing ass. I know as well as you do that modern America is another facist nation in the works. Hell, I've spoken on it many times, in this very board. But if you're gonna be a pedagogue, at least have some consideration. It's likely that I know more than you about the Roman Empire as well as history in general, but you're passing it off like I'm some naive Amerikaner who doesn't know the truth from a brand name. And I don't appreciate that.

sorry if I took your comment out of context. you said "you're all off". It just didn't sound sarcastic. i guess I just missed it, sorry.

And I'm sorry for the jumpy response. This internet makes me some invisible demon. Thank you for the apology. It wasn't something I expected. And strike all that from the record. I get easily irked if I think people are mocking me or whatnot.

Bah, I feel foolish because you apologized. But thanks.

Here is a thing on how CBS is ususally liberal

They kept reporting on the Pope's past and saying he was too conervative for catholics but in reality the Pope was winning big time in apporval poles from catholics.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
WOW.

"...it's TOTALLY WRONG to have media coverage of stuff like this as in-depth as it is. It completely undermines the national security of the country".

Thank you, I could not have had my point about people being brain washed by governments/empires more beautifully illustrated.

So then you'd rather have the media broadcasting on live tv things like troop locations, secret plans, all that jazz?

I mean, heck, next time they mount a SECRET rescue mission to SECRETLY rescue a kidnapee, why not broadcast it on CNN the day before!

And honestly, my statement about the theory (which actually has pretty wide-spread acceptance).... if that's true, can you tell me he should have been honest?

Originally posted by phinney6
Its funny when you call us mislead when the majority of liberal accusations are based on conspiracy theories without real facts, and close-minded opinions that believe every anti-bush article from every opinioned newspaper with liberal journalists. Also the NBC, CBS, ABC, left-wing news which will post whats happening but also post the negative things that bush does to people and the "hard time" we are haivng over in iraq when the majority of Iraq is peaceful (talk to the actual troops over there). The media likes to get the people stirred up and ususally against Bush. You say they aren't hard on him enough, Its not the medias job to be hard on a President. Its to report the FACTS only. But they usually have these analysts who try to find what bad the Bush things are doing. They also usually give what the President does without saying what he's doing it for, without saying why he's doing it, it looks bad on him and against does towarsds anti-bushism

www.mediaresearch.org

this website will actually report how the cbs, nbc, abc media reports, or should I say DOESN'T report why Bush does the things he does. There is a logical reason

You mean like the great clip that woman beater posted? Yeah, jumping on the "liberal media" sure doesn't sound like a popular band wagon. I'm not basing my theories on liberal media or any media, i'm basing it on my OWN THOUGHTS!!! Wow, what a concept, thinking for yourself....holy crap! how do I do that you ask? I read all the articles, books, watch all channels news reports, and then make up my own mined based on what I believe about what I've read and heard and seen. Try it some time.

I cannot blame Bush for the WMD, everybody and their mother was telling him they were there. I would have done the same thing. Heck even if their weren't WMD, I would have done the same thing. Saddamn was uncooperative, and we know how good Appeasment worked with Hitler

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
You mean like the great clip that woman beater posted? Yeah, jumping on the "liberal media" sure doesn't sound like a popular band wagon. I'm not basing my theories on liberal media or any media, i'm basing it on my OWN THOUGHTS!!! Wow, what a concept, thinking for yourself....holy crap! how do I do that you ask? I read all the articles, books, watch all channels news reports, and then make up my own mined based on what I believe about what I've read and heard and seen. Try it some time.

What books? (unfit for command?)

What movies? (fahrenheit 9/11?)

What channel? (cbs?)

hmm........seriously you were being mean first, so no need for acting this way. Chill out. Tell me, please, why you are against bush? Just so I can get an understanding on where YOU stand.

http://www.political-comedy-central.com/bush/Time%20for%20whoopin.jpg

That's fine, if he'd even said "i'm not sure, but hey, they also rape and oppress women and have public execution, so while we're putting and end to that, we're gonna dig around for some weapons JUST IN CASE" and I'd be fine. I don't want them handing out troop locations or talking about specific missions, stop repeating everything FOX news tells you without thinking. DUH that's a stupid thing to do, and putting soldiers lives at risk isn't right. But I just want some honesty about WHY we're attacking someone. But if he'd said that, people wouldn't think it was "tough" enough and would call him a wuss, instead of an intelligent human being who thinks before he acts, and is honest about why he does what he does. That I respect.

lol

http://www.political-comedy-central.com/bush/bush_gulfwars22.jpg

Originally posted by phinney6
I cannot blame Bush for the WMD, everybody and their mother was telling him they were there. I would have done the same thing. Heck even if their weren't WMD, I would have done the same thing. Saddamn was uncooperative, and we know how good Appeasment worked with Hitler

Surf on over to www.debka.com. It is an Israeli (independant) news site that has informants just about everywhere. I am not exageratting when I say that if Osama bin Laden eats a hot dog, they know about it. They have reported on SO many things 100% accurately days or weeks before we see it on CNN, Fox, CBS, etc.

They reported a few weeks before the invasion of Iraq that Saddam was moving all the WMDs to a desert in Syria. They had a map up for the longest time pointing out the weapon's exact location.

And in response to the inevitable question of why Bush hasn't gone after the weapons if that's true, they have also reported several times that Bush and high ranking US officials have been advised to do so but are worried because they already went into one country and didn't find what the intelligence said, so they are warry to go into another country and find faulty intelligence again. (The irony is that according to the Syrian desert report the intelligence was not faulty in the first place!)

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
That's fine, if he'd even said "i'm not sure, but hey, they also rape and oppress women and have public execution, so while we're putting and end to that, we're gonna dig around for some weapons JUST IN CASE" and I'd be fine. I don't want them handing out troop locations or talking about specific missions, stop repeating everything FOX news tells you without thinking. DUH that's a stupid thing to do, and putting soldiers lives at risk isn't right. But I just want some honesty about WHY we're attacking someone. But if he'd said that, people wouldn't think it was "tough" enough and would call him a wuss, instead of an intelligent human being who thinks before he acts, and is honest about why he does what he does. That I respect.

Didn't he actually in many speeches mention how one of the main causes was the oppression of the Iraq people. There you go again, ANOTHER conspiracy theory that he lied, in reality many people believed Iraq had WMD including the CIA, and the British intelligence. I guess the Pres isn't supposed to listen to his intelligence corps? I mean after all that's just wrong to go to war because you believe they have WMD when they shouldn't. Man what an idiot that President Bush Was! Trying to protect America. To me, Liberals are dreamers. They want it all to be peaceful and okay, without realizing that war is gritty. Its tough. That in the long run its the right thing to do.

Egypt and France thought there were WMDs too. Everybody did. The only difference was Bush had the balls to do something.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Surf on over to www.debka.com. It is an Israeli (independant) news site that has informants just about everywhere. I am not exageratting when I say that if Osama bin Laden eats a hot dog, they know about it. They have reported on SO many things 100% accurately days or weeks before we see it on CNN, Fox, CBS, etc.

They reported a few weeks before the invasion of Iraq that Saddam was moving all the WMDs to a desert in Syria. They had a map up for the longest time pointing out the weapon's exact location.

And in response to the inevitable question of why Bush hasn't gone after the weapons if that's true, they have also reported several times that Bush and high ranking US officials have been advised to do so but are worried because they already went into one country and didn't find what the intelligence said, so they are warry to go into another country and find faulty intelligence again. (The irony is that according to the Syrian desert report the intelligence was not faulty in the first place!)

Of course the mainstream american media will never leak this out. Only the select few who go to the website.

Originally posted by phinney6
What books? (unfit for command?)

What movies? (fahrenheit 9/11?)

What channel? (cbs?)

hmm........seriously you were being mean first, so no need for acting this way. Chill out. Tell me, please, why you are against bush? Just so I can get an understanding on where YOU stand.

Thanks for jumping to conclusions about someone you don't know. And yeah, you're response doesn't sound like pre programmed government propoganda, you, like Lazer, are illustrating my point SO WELL.

But to indulge your stereotypes:
Channels: NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, BBC America, an arabic station I get with subtitles, FOX, FOX news, and yes, i've probably seen something on CBS. i do channel surf on occasion.

and as far as Fahrenheit goes, I knew all that stuff BEFORE I saw it, all that info was available to the public BEFORE he put it into a movie, you just have to look past (excuse MY stereotype of YOU) FOX news who only SUPPORTS Bush. THE ENTIRE MEDIA IS BIASED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. Its all put out by HUMANS, not robots. Some is too left, some is too right, thats why you have to try to distill what they're really saying, look past the spin, and then develop your own opinion. And just so you know, I don't consider my self part of ANY political party, I consider myself part of the Alan party (that's my name by the way), I think about what I hear, analyze what they're really saying, and then make up my own mind. On some things I'm liberal, on some things I'm conservative. Nobody should be all one or all the other unless you're just a really one dimesional person...

In fact (and you may have missed it because most news sources buried it on the back page or at the tail end of the telecast) but it was reported a few months ago that RUSSIAN intelligence (Russia, as you know, being a relatively strong ally of Iraq and thus lending credence to it's accuracy) actually reported that not only did Iraq posses WMDs, but planned on USING THEM AGAINST MAINLAND US within a certain time frame (I think it was that summer or something like that).

How can one ignore that? As the President, if someone comes with evidence of 50% certainty that says the US is in danger, he HAS to act. Anything less would honestly be treason or something along those lines.

http://www.political-comedy-central.com/bush/bushcliniraq.JPG

Originally posted by phinney6
Didn't he actually in many speeches mention how one of the main causes was the oppression of the Iraq people. There you go again, ANOTHER conspiracy theory that he lied, in reality many people believed Iraq had WMD including the CIA, and the British intelligence. I guess the Pres isn't supposed to listen to his intelligence corps? I mean after all that's just wrong to go to war because you believe they have WMD when they shouldn't. Man what an idiot that President Bush Was! Trying to protect America. To me, Liberals are dreamers. They want it all to be peaceful and okay, without realizing that war is gritty. Its tough. That in the long run its the right thing to do.

And like I said, if he'd said, we THINK they have them but we haven't actually seen them, but we'd rather be sure one way or the other, I wouldn't have a problem. I don't see how wanting the respect of honesty from a leader to be a conspiracy theory.

This is the Michael Moore montra. Real leaders make decisions. They don't pussy foot around the place.

I have news for you lol.... Fox trashes Bush a fair percentage of the time.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
In fact (and you may have missed it because most news sources buried it on the back page or at the tail end of the telecast) but it was reported a few months ago that RUSSIAN intelligence (Russia, as you know, being a relatively strong ally of Iraq and thus lending credence to it's accuracy) actually reported that not only did Iraq posses WMDs, but planned on USING THEM AGAINST MAINLAND US within a certain time frame (I think it was that summer or something like that).

How can one ignore that? As the President, if someone comes with evidence of 50% certainty that says the US is in danger, he HAS to act. Anything less would honestly be treason or something along those lines.

So where are they?

Yeah, Fox was the network to break the news about the dui.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
So where are they?

I hope when we invade North Korea and Iran we won't hear you bitching about this anymore.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Thanks for jumping to conclusions about someone you don't know. And yeah, you're response doesn't sound like pre programmed government propoganda, you, like Lazer, are illustrating my point SO WELL.

But to indulge your stereotypes:
Channels: NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, BBC America, an arabic station I get with subtitles, FOX, FOX news, and yes, i've probably seen something on CBS. i do channel surf on occasion.

and as far as Fahrenheit goes, I knew all that stuff BEFORE I saw it, all that info was available to the public BEFORE he put it into a movie, you just have to look past (excuse MY stereotype of YOU) FOX news who only SUPPORTS Bush. THE ENTIRE MEDIA IS BIASED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. Its all put out by HUMANS, not robots. Some is too left, some is too right, thats why you have to try to distill what they're really saying, look past the spin, and then develop your own opinion. And just so you know, I don't consider my self part of ANY political party, I consider myself part of the Alan party (that's my name by the way), I think about what I hear, analyze what they're really saying, and then make up my own mind. On some things I'm liberal, on some things I'm conservative. Nobody should be all one or all the other unless you're just a really one dimesional person...

You stll haven't answered my question (BTW I dont watch Fox often). What issue are you against bush on? Seriously. And Fox does trash Bush some. But They not only have hosts who are liberal (mcuh like MSNBC) but also hosts who are conservative which is such a rarity that they say Fox only supports bush. Thats only because they are the ONLY station that has hosts (of their own shows mind you) that are republicans. lol

Originally posted by woman_beater69
This is the Michael Moore montra. Real leaders make decisions. They don't pussy foot around the place.

And that is a decision, to think. To say we're not sure but we're damned sure gonna find out! How is that not decisive? its also really intelligent because it shows you will act to assertain the truth instead of jump to conclusions and then kill a lot of people for the wrong reasons.

hey in the end it wasn't for the wrong reasons. We saved Iraq as far as Im concerned

Ohhh mephistodesigns,

I guess we should have just taken Saddam's word for it then, huh?
Bull-honkery.

sigh.

I can't believe you're making me do this but...

I hope this makes you either question your party or your sexuality...

http://www.political-comedy-central.com/bush/bush4/bush_it1_2.jpg

By the way, I just gagged looking back at that post.

Another random Bush pic

Originally posted by phinney6
You stll haven't answered my question (BTW I dont watch Fox often). What issue are you against bush on? Seriously. And Fox does trash Bush some. But They not only have hosts who are liberal (mcuh like MSNBC) but also hosts who are conservative which is such a rarity that they say Fox only supports bush. Thats only because they are the ONLY station that has hosts (of their own shows mind you) that are republicans. lol

Exactly, all media is biased one way or another.

And what am I against Bush on? Tellilng America we are going into a country for WMD, then changing up to "they opress women" etc. Mainly because I'm against lying in general. Am I glad we took Sadaam out of Iraq? yes. I'm sad we had to do it for the wrong reasons, because that still makes the rest of the world not like us. Not to mention its just an f'ed up thing to do in general. I'm also against not using due process and getting the rest of the world involved. I'm against drilling in Alaska for oil. I'm against us going into any other countries without UN approval. And I really like him to go after Osama, he seems to have forgotten all about him. I'm against his Social Security plan. I'm against his grammer and the thoroughly irritating way he says "nuclear".

But, to get back to the point, there are parallels to what our government is doing and what the Emperor did to create an Empire. Am I saying Bush wants to be Emperor? Probably, who doesn't? But do I realistically think it can be as obvious as it is in Star Wars? No. But do I think the government has done some shady things to get what they want in order to attain what they want like the Emperor? Yes. Do I think they spin things to be untrue or at least misrepresented? Yes. They've done it for generations. Remember Vietnam? Its politics baby. Its not for the feint of heart. Its ugly, some good does come from it, so does some evil. Are good things always done for the right reasons? no. Do I think that makes it parallel to the Emperor's spinning of the Clone Wars and Jedi trying to arrest him? yes. Again, that's politics. I hope we, in our "modern" world, can keep the next Hitler from rising. And anywhere I see the signs, I will speak out against them. Especially if they are in my own country. Do I think Bush will be Hitler? No. But I do think they have created a nation of fear, a nation afraid to look below the surface and ask questions. And that's wrong. I think it is a method of control, and I don't like it. I don't care who's behind it, its wrong.

Another pic.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Exactly, all media is biased one way or another.

And what am I against Bush on? Tellilng America we are going into a country for WMD, then changing up to "they opress women" etc. Mainly because I'm against lying in general. Am I glad we took Sadaam out of Iraq? yes. I'm sad we had to do it for the wrong reasons, because that still makes the rest of the world not like us. Not to mention its just an f'ed up thing to do in general. I'm also against not using due process and getting the rest of the world involved. I'm against drilling in Alaska for oil. I'm against us going into any other countries without UN approval. And I really like him to go after Osama, he seems to have forgotten all about him. I'm against his Social Security plan. I'm against his grammer and the thoroughly irritating way he says "nuclear".

But, to get back to the point, there are parallels to what our government is doing and what the Emperor did to create an Empire. Am I saying Bush wants to be Emperor? Probably, who doesn't? But do I realistically think it can be as obvious as it is in Star Wars? No. But do I think the government has done some shady things to get what they want in order to attain what they want like the Emperor? Yes. Do I think they spin things to be untrue or at least misrepresented? Yes. They've done it for generations. Remember Vietnam? Its politics baby. Its not for the feint of heart. Its ugly, some good does come from it, so does some evil. Are good things always done for the right reasons? no. Do I think that makes it parallel to the Emperor's spinning of the Clone Wars and Jedi trying to arrest him? yes. Again, that's politics. I hope we, in our "modern" world, can keep the next Hitler from rising. And anywhere I see the signs, I will speak out against them. Especially if they are in my own country. Do I think Bush will be Hitler? No. But I do think they have created a nation of fear, a nation afraid to look below the surface and ask questions. And that's wrong. I think it is a method of control, and I don't like it. I don't care who's behind it, its wrong.

Why would you be against drilling in Alaska? It's only a small area. Foreign Oil is pumping up our gas prices.

Did you read what I said. They are in Syria.

http://www.political-comedy-central.com/bush/empire-1.jpg

Originally posted by woman_beater69
Ohhh mephistodesigns,

I guess we should have just taken Saddam's word for it then, huh?
Bull-honkery.

sigh.

I can't believe you're making me do this but...

I hope this makes you either question your party or your sexuality...

http://www.political-comedy-central.com/bush/bush4/bush_it1_2.jpg


No, we shouldn't take his word, the guy WAS crazy, not doubts there. But we should be honest about not being sure and STILL GO IN TO LOOK. I have not said we should not have done what we've done. I'm simply saying we need to look at the reality of why, and make sure we demand more honesty from the officials who ARE ANSWERABLE TO US. We elect them, we pay them, they need to be honest with us. Period.

And again, people's posts on here who seem to be against questioning our government and holding them accountable for what they say and do, are falling into the mindset I laid out earlier, which is the same passive acceptance of what one is told that DOES lead to dictators like the Emperor. Again, the people let libery fall, and they applaud it. Things like the Patriot Act are wrong. Taking out dictators is good. but lets not lie and cheat our way to our goals, thats WRONG.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
No, we shouldn't take his word, the guy WAS crazy, not doubts there. But we should be honest about not being sure and STILL GO IN TO LOOK. I have not said we should not have done what we've done. I'm simply saying we need to look at the reality of why, and make sure we demand more honesty from the officials who ARE ANSWERABLE TO US. We elect them, we pay them, they need to be honest with us. Period.

And again, people's posts on here who seem to be against questioning our government and holding them accountable for what they say and do, are falling into the mindset I laid out earlier, which is the same passive acceptance of what one is told that DOES lead to dictators like the Emperor. Again, the people let libery fall, and they applaud it. Things like the Patriot Act are wrong. Taking out dictators is good. but lets not lie and cheat our way to our goals, thats WRONG.

Hell yeah we elect them. We also re-elect them.

Originally posted by woman_beater69
Why would you be against drilling in Alaska? It's only a small area. Foreign Oil is pumping up our gas prices.

Yeah, that is a trickey one. It does look like we're gonna have to. But their are alternatives that don't get the research and press they need because of Oil money in politics, and that crosses all parties. Its just sad that its come to that. And there really isn't that much up their, so they're still not gonna stop the problem like government incentives for hybrid cars would be.

I am not against questioning the government. I am only against demanding that every fact, not matter how classified, be presented for everyone to see regardless of the ramifications.

Foreign dependency is a ***** though.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Exactly, all media is biased one way or another.

And what am I against Bush on? Tellilng America we are going into a country for WMD, then changing up to "they opress women" etc. Mainly because I'm against lying in general. Am I glad we took Sadaam out of Iraq? yes. I'm sad we had to do it for the wrong reasons, because that still makes the rest of the world not like us. Not to mention its just an f'ed up thing to do in general. I'm also against not using due process and getting the rest of the world involved. I'm against drilling in Alaska for oil. I'm against us going into any other countries without UN approval. And I really like him to go after Osama, he seems to have forgotten all about him. I'm against his Social Security plan. I'm against his grammer and the thoroughly irritating way he says "nuclear".

But, to get back to the point, there are parallels to what our government is doing and what the Emperor did to create an Empire. Am I saying Bush wants to be Emperor? Probably, who doesn't? But do I realistically think it can be as obvious as it is in Star Wars? No. But do I think the government has done some shady things to get what they want in order to attain what they want like the Emperor? Yes. Do I think they spin things to be untrue or at least misrepresented? Yes. They've done it for generations. Remember Vietnam? Its politics baby. Its not for the feint of heart. Its ugly, some good does come from it, so does some evil. Are good things always done for the right reasons? no. Do I think that makes it parallel to the Emperor's spinning of the Clone Wars and Jedi trying to arrest him? yes. Again, that's politics. I hope we, in our "modern" world, can keep the next Hitler from rising. And anywhere I see the signs, I will speak out against them. Especially if they are in my own country. Do I think Bush will be Hitler? No. But I do think they have created a nation of fear, a nation afraid to look below the surface and ask questions. And that's wrong. I think it is a method of control, and I don't like it. I don't care who's behind it, its wrong.

Points taken but I honestly do not think he was lying about WMD. He truly believed as did most of the countries. The UN couldn't poor pee out of a boot with instructions on the heel. THEY ARE the senate of the real world. Bush really didn't ask for the worlds help. they did it themselves. IMO. but I respect yours and you make a valid point. (BTW I am strongly against bush when it comes to giving illegal aliens jobs that americans do not have yer)

Agreed, BUsh is ****ed up on his border policy.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
I am not against questioning the government. I am only against demanding that every fact, not matter how classified, be presented for everyone to see regardless of the ramifications.

Bingo Bango couldn't have hit the bulls eye any better.

Originally posted by woman_beater69
I hope when we invade North Korea and Iran we won't hear you bitching about this anymore.

I'm fine with it as long as they're honest with us about the why, and we get the UN to back us up so we don't look like the self proclaimed World Police.

I think we've been the world police since WWII. I'm sorry.

The UN is probably the most corrupt major organization in the world IMO.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
I am not against questioning the government. I am only against demanding that every fact, not matter how classified, be presented for everyone to see regardless of the ramifications.

Did I say every fact? no. I don't want people getting killed because somebody lets something out to early. Like I've said at least three times by now is if he'd just said this sentence, just this one sentence: "We're not sure, but we want to find out, because we're screwed if he does have them." I'd be fine with it. But his reasoning changed several times and that's not cool.

Don't worry, I still think Geraldo is a total deuche for what he did and I hope that was a career ending mistake. That was irresponsible. pure and simple. But, after the crisis happens, I do want as close to full discolsure as possible without endagering anyone because we need to hold the government responsible. This is costing us a butt load of money, and I don't think some honesy is out of order.

Originally posted by woman_beater69
I think we've been the world police since WWII. I'm sorry.

and it sucks. if we'd just try to be more inclusive instead of exclusive about it, it wouldn't be so bad.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
The UN is probably the most corrupt major organization in the world IMO.

wow. just....wow.

I don't know if it sucks. I don't think the Jews think it sucks.

But that wasn't just us. That was us, England, France, italy, and several others. Since then, we've been going in John Wayne style, which just pisses the rest of the world off and makes us look impulsive and like we don't think before we act. And its not like we haven't used it to do things we shouldn't do.

I keep going back to my point about that book. I am looking for it on Amazon but unfortunately I forget the title and author and there are a million on the topic of Iraq. In any case, if the theory is correct, then it would be correct to lie AT THE TIME that Bush did. There are plenty of situations we're not considering that would require dishonesty.

In any case, they don't declassify things until 30 years after they happen for reasons of national security, but they do declassify them. That enables leaders to mislead when it is ABSOLUTELY necessary but also for the citizens to know the truth once it is appropriate and safe.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
wow. just....wow.

They let Saddam Hussein ignore EVERY SINGLE RULE AND LAW they imposed on him for 10 YEARS so that Kofi Annan, some other top officials, France and Russia could rake in the dough...

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
But that wasn't just us. That was us, England, France, italy, and several others. Since then, we've been going in John Wayne style, which just pisses the rest of the world off and makes us look impulsive and like we don't think before we act. And its not like we haven't used it to do things we shouldn't do.

I believe we were the ones to liberate France and save England's ass. As for Italy... okay....

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
They let Saddam Hussein ignore EVERY SINGLE RULE AND LAW they imposed on him for 10 YEARS so that Kofi Annan, some other top officials, France and Russia could rake in the dough...

Those few who help in the Oil For Food Investigation are getting death threats too!

Look, the US isn't evil, we do a lot of good, but lets not let that blind us into thinking we're perfect. Far from it, we need to ask questions, we need to be aware of what we do and the effect it has on the world. We still have a lot of internal problems as well as external. So we really shouldn't act so high and mighty. We are ONE of the greatest nations, not THE greatest nation. Thats the kind of alienating view we have that pisses off the rest of the world. If we keep up watch on what's going on in the world, if we look for patterns like the Emperor's rise to power, like Hitler, like the Inquisition, like Rome, like Britain at one point, we can stop history from repeating itself. But blindly supporting things doesn't help, it makes you/me/humans easeir to control. I'm just saying you need to keep watch. Bush will be gone in a couple years. Some one else will be in there. They'll have their ups and downs too, and you know what? I'm gonna watch them just as closely. The government wields a lot fo power, but they ARE answerable to us. Don't forget that. That's all I'm saying, keep your eyes open and don't believe everything you hear, because its never ALL true. Some times half truths are more dangerous than all out lies because they're easier to get people to accept.

Originally posted by woman_beater69
Those few who help in the Oil For Food Investigation are getting death threats too!

I did not know that!

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
I keep going back to my point about that book. I am looking for it on Amazon but unfortunately I forget the title and author and there are a million on the topic of Iraq. In any case, if the theory is correct, then it would be correct to lie AT THE TIME that Bush did. There are plenty of situations we're not considering that would require dishonesty.

In any case, they don't declassify things until 30 years after they happen for reasons of national security, but they do declassify them. That enables leaders to mislead when it is ABSOLUTELY necessary but also for the citizens to know the truth once it is appropriate and safe.

There's also a book about how the Bush family had dealings with Nazi's in WWII, their oil companies traded and did business with Nazi's. And they knew who they were dealing with.

Bottom line, its not okay to lie to the people who picked you to lead them, keep them safe. I don't care what that book says (which isn't to say I won't read it) but all he had to say was 'we're not sure' and no one would have beef with what he did.

Your idol Michael Moore too much Lazer.............

Bush has some serious credibility gaps...

Originally posted by El_NINO
Your idol Michael Moore too much Lazer.............

what?

lol...this thread makes me laugh

Originally posted by woman_beater69
I believe we were the ones to liberate France and save England's ass. As for Italy... okay....

that's highly debatable. And we didn't help until WE were attacked. So again, we don't get involved until we've been hurt. And don't forget, it seems like we saved their ass becuase they'd been fighting for a LONG time before we got involved, they asked for help and we didn't give it to them until WE got hit. Then we raced in at the end, fully loaded because we hadn't been fighting for two years, and wooped ass because we weren't tired from tons fo battle.

Where are all the Euros on here tonight? I know you know what I'm talking about.

And this is exactly the point of the opening comment of this thread. We don't look at other view points from outside the country, we accept things we're told, aplaud what LOOKS right, without stoping to check if it is.

I dont know about you guys, Im from Canada and i seem to be viewing that America seems to have their hands everywhere in the world. Soon there will be a one world country runned by americans, its already happening with Bush

ahhh, finally, some world views. Thank you! This is why I really need to move to Europe or Canada, even though they probably won't like me much.

this calls for a banana dance!!!!!!!!!!!!

You might disagree with the policy mephisto but would you really sacrifice what you have in the USA just to be around people that agreed with you?

I mean, this is how it works you know? Right now I like the government, 3 years from now you might.


I mean, do you REALLY want Canada's universal healthcare....

America is the most dangerous place in the world. Its one thing to have people go along willingly with despotic political leaders or even to have the people enslaved....

In the US, the population is practically wholly ignorant or doesn't care about world events and naively assumes the US are the Good Guys allowing sh!t like the CIA training Osama bin Laden to go on unchecked. We're a bunch of freakin' sheep.

you know whats even worse, most americans dont know where canada is.

and bill clinton wasnt perfect either. The best president you guys had was Ronald Reagan, no joke

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
that's highly debatable. And we didn't help until WE were attacked. So again, we don't get involved until we've been hurt. And don't forget, it seems like we saved their ass becuase they'd been fighting for a LONG time before we got involved, they asked for help and we didn't give it to them until WE got hit. Then we raced in at the end, fully loaded because we hadn't been fighting for two years, and wooped ass because we weren't tired from tons fo battle.

Where are all the Euros on here tonight? I know you know what I'm talking about.

And this is exactly the point of the opening comment of this thread. We don't look at other view points from outside the country, we accept things we're told, aplaud what LOOKS right, without stoping to check if it is.

We didn't go in until we got hit because it was Democratic FDR in the White House.... Bush would have been in there long ago. Actually, so would have Clinton, who had FAR more of a world-police type of policy than Bush does.

And furthermore, I go back to the media issue. Forget about whether the war is right or wrong for a moment, and just look at it from the two points of view. I really think it is all those AGAINST the war that just accept what they are told. They are just listening to the networks anti-war pieces. Those supporting it are actually going against what they are being told, for the most part.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
We didn't go in until we got hit because it was Democratic FDR in the White House.... Bush would have been in there long ago. Actually, so would have Clinton, who had FAR more of a world-police type of policy than Bush does.

And furthermore, I go back to the media issue. Forget about whether the war is right or wrong for a moment, and just look at it from the two points of view. I really think it is all those AGAINST the war that just accept what they are told. They are just listening to the networks anti-war pieces. Those supporting it are actually going against what they are being told, for the most part.

??

Huh? Those against the war are more likely to get their news from alternative sources like the BBC, etc. Those supporting the war are just following the status quo.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
You might disagree with the policy mephisto but would you really sacrifice what you have in the USA just to be around people that agreed with you?

I mean, this is how it works you know? Right now I like the government, 3 years from now you might.


I mean, do you REALLY want Canada's universal healthcare....


oh no, of course not. and certainly not the low low low violent crime rates of england since they aren't so friggin' gun crazy. oh wait, they don't have any guns CUZ THEY"RE ILLEGAL!!

And no, its not about being around people that agree with me. debate is good, its healthy, and its the POINT OF ALL MY FREAKIN POSTS IF YOU WERE PAYING ATTENTION. its about not living in a nation controled by fear. its bout the president not lying to me about why he's gonna go take over a country and get record numbers of our people killed and waste record numbers of money. its about not being round people who accept everything the government tells them. That's why I'm willing to move.

At least in Canada FREEDOM OF SPEECH actually exits. In America they prevent the news from giving the nation whats really going on, CNN ABC NBC CBS, they all have to do what Bush says otherwise they will get it. Remember Phil Lamarr when he made the comment about america being cowards by bombing a country while terrorists go and blow themselves up for their country and religion.

Originally posted by tlbauerle
??

Huh? Those against the war are more likely to get their news from alternative sources like the BBC, etc. Those supporting the war are just following the status quo.

Hardly! NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, PBS (lol), New York Times, LA Times, they are all HIGHLY anti-war. I don't have any stats but I'd guess that far more than 60% of Americans get their news from these sources.

Originally posted by tlbauerle
America is the most dangerous place in the world. Its one thing to have people go along willingly with despotic political leaders or even to have the people enslaved....

In the US, the population is practically wholly ignorant or doesn't care about world events and naively assumes the US are the Good Guys allowing sh!t like the CIA training Osama bin Laden to go on unchecked. We're a bunch of freakin' sheep.

EXACTLY!!! God I was born in the wrong place.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
oh no, of course not. and certainly not the low low low violent crime rates of england since they aren't so friggin' gun crazy. oh wait, they don't have any guns CUZ THEY"RE ILLEGAL!!

And no, its not about being around people that agree with me. debate is good, its healthy, and its the POINT OF ALL MY FREAKIN POSTS IF YOU WERE PAYING ATTENTION. its about not living in a nation controled by fear. its bout the president not lying to me about why he's gonna go take over a country and get record numbers of our people killed and waste record numbers of money. its about not being round people who accept everything the government tells them. That's why I'm willing to move.

Canada's healthcare pays for hardly anything it's a total failure. This comes from the statements of actual Canadians, as well as general knowledge.

right and they show what your government wants the nation to see

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
We didn't go in until we got hit because it was Democratic FDR in the White House.... Bush would have been in there long ago. Actually, so would have Clinton, who had FAR more of a world-police type of policy than Bush does.

And furthermore, I go back to the media issue. Forget about whether the war is right or wrong for a moment, and just look at it from the two points of view. I really think it is all those AGAINST the war that just accept what they are told. They are just listening to the networks anti-war pieces. Those supporting it are actually going against what they are being told, for the most part.

You don't suppose people are against the war automatically BECAUE THEY THINK ITS WRONG TO KILL INNOCENTS FOR BULLS**T REASONS DO YOU? Do you think they just think mass amounts of DEAD humans on both sides is wrong? Oh no, it must be those little pussy democrats, always supporting not killing people for no reasons. Wow are they biased....

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Hardly! NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, PBS (lol), New York Times, LA Times, they are all HIGHLY anti-war. I don't have any stats but I'd guess that far more than 60% of Americans get their news from these sources.

I don't think they're antiwar....and most American's support the war.

Originally posted by El_NINO
At least in Canada FREEDOM OF SPEECH actually exits. In America they prevent the news from giving the nation whats really going on, CNN ABC NBC CBS, they all have to do what Bush says otherwise they will get it. Remember Phil Lamarr when he made the comment about america being cowards by bombing a country while terrorists go and blow themselves up for their country and religion.

El Nino, due to your nations media you may not even know about this, but there was a pretty big story a few months back. Somewhere in Ontario I believe there was a serial killer who buried all his victims behind a barn or something to that effect.

In any case, the Canadian government, because they "did not want to incite a riot," WOULD NOT ALLOW ANY REPORTS on this to be in any newspapers or in televison news broadcasts, even though there was vital information on how to keep oneself safe from the killer. In fact, (and I could be wrong about this) I believe the government surpressed reporting after the killer was found because it gave them bad PR on the way they handled the case....

lol i dont know what "Canadians" you talk too but there so wrong, the health care system is used for regular check ups by a family doctor, they cover most opertations. HAHAH i laugh at americans for paying $80 everytime they go to a doctor

Originally posted by El_NINO
At least in Canada FREEDOM OF SPEECH actually exits. In America they prevent the news from giving the nation whats really going on, CNN ABC NBC CBS, they all have to do what Bush says otherwise they will get it. Remember Phil Lamarr when he made the comment about america being cowards by bombing a country while terrorists go and blow themselves up for their country and religion.

Thank you, all mass media in the US is biased. I've been looking for alternative press, that's why I watch BBC world news on BBC america, which shows a WHOLE new view point most Americans simply never see because they're too busy accepting stereotypes. CBS, NBC, ABC, you name it, all owned by big corporations, many of which contribute to the Republican party. Gee, they wouldn't want to be biased would they?

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
El Nino, due to your nations media you may not even know about this, but there was a pretty big story a few months back. Somewhere in Ontario I believe there was a serial killer who buried all his victims behind a barn or something to that effect.

In any case, the Canadian government, because they "did not want to incite a riot," WOULD NOT ALLOW ANY REPORTS on this to be in any newspapers or in televison news broadcasts, even though there was vital information on how to keep oneself safe from the killer. In fact, (and I could be wrong about this) I believe the government surpressed reporting after the killer was found because it gave them bad PR on the way they handled the case....

Same thing happens here....

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
You don't suppose people are against the war automatically BECAUE THEY THINK ITS WRONG TO KILL INNOCENTS FOR BULLS**T REASONS DO YOU? Do you think they just think mass amounts of DEAD humans on both sides is wrong? Oh no, it must be those little pussy democrats, always supporting not killing people for no reasons. Wow are they biased....

Sure some people could be against the war for such a reason. The point is that we can't say pro-war folks don't think for themselves when most of the media is telling them that what they think is wrong.

Originally posted by El_NINO
lol i dont know what "Canadians" you talk too but there so wrong, the health care system is used for regular check ups by a family doctor, they cover most opertations. HAHAH i laugh at americans for paying $80 everytime they go to a doctor

Seriously, no Amercian can possibly argue that we have better health care. Why do you think people go to Canada and Mexico for medical supplies? Because its to expensive because our country spends too much money INVADING countries and bombing anyone who looks at us funny rather than pay for health care and food for its own people for once.

im sure that just doesnt happen here it happens everywhere, I would be angry if i found out my next door neighboor was a serial killer when we as citizens are supposed to be told who is dangerous when they leave prison.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Hardly! NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, PBS (lol), New York Times, LA Times, they are all HIGHLY anti-war. I don't have any stats but I'd guess that far more than 60% of Americans get their news from these sources.

spoken like a true victim of propoganda. way to repeat what they tell you too. that's the american way, monkey see monkey do. just jump on the band wagon and keep your mouth and eyes shut and everything will be okay.

Originally posted by El_NINO
lol i dont know what "Canadians" you talk too but there so wrong, the health care system is used for regular check ups by a family doctor, they cover most opertations. HAHAH i laugh at americans for paying $80 everytime they go to a doctor

I happen to pay $20 to go to the doctor, and I'd say most people with healthcare pay similar amounts. In any case, the first time I was ever in Canada we asked some folks what the biggest problem was in Canada out of curiosity, and their completely unsolicited response was the healthcare.

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/canfreeandfirst.html

http://www.mackinac.org/images.asp?ID=2748#939

and so what if Canada had a serial killer? you know how many we've had? There's one, this guy who killed his grand parents and was in a psych ward 'till he was 18, then he had to make regular visits to a case worker, the day the state psych dept. said he didn't have to come back anymore because he was A-OK, he had a woman's head in his trunk of his car which was parked right outside. I believe it was Ed Kemper, but I could be wrong on the name.

youd think theyd have enough bradlies to go around, maybe spending another 100 billion on milatary will help americas problems like homeless, drug dealers, pollution, and not to mention gas prices, why not spend money on a new source of fuel

I wish I had their healthcare problems...damn, I wish I had insurance. Hell...I wish I had a job and wasn't in social services, the lowest paid area of government!

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Seriously, no Amercian can possibly argue that we have better health care. Why do you think people go to Canada and Mexico for medical supplies? Because its to expensive because our country spends too much money INVADING countries and bombing anyone who looks at us funny rather than pay for health care and food for its own people for once.

If you think that you are vastly underinformed or biased. The most hard-nosed liberal will tell you Canada's health care system is NOT the model we want to follow. The reason people get drugs and supplies from Canada is because there is little government regulation so things cost less; it has little to do with the healthcare system. It also, I might add, greatly increases the risk that something will be wrong with the drugs or supplies that are purchased.

Originally posted by mephistodesigns
and so what if Canada had a serial killer? you know how many we've had? There's one, this guy who killed his grand parents and was in a psych ward 'till he was 18, then he had to make regular visits to a case worker, the day the state psych dept. said he didn't have to come back anymore because he was A-OK, he had a woman's head in his trunk of his car which was parked right outside. I believe it was Ed Kemper, but I could be wrong on the name.

Yeah everyone has serial killers lol. The point is that Canada's government censored the media so that none of the citizens could be informed about it. Nobody even knew there was any danger! They were just walking around like nothing was wrong when they could have at LEAST been informed to keep a look out over their shoulders.

Something wrong with the drugs from Canada?

Now THAT is stupid to assume....

Canada is certainly better than our health care. Its not perfect...but ours sucks ass. I mean we're dealing with 500% markup on services/medication, etc. Damn insurance companies.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
I happen to pay $20 to go to the doctor, and I'd say most people with healthcare pay similar amounts. In any case, the first time I was ever in Canada we asked some folks what the biggest problem was in Canada out of curiosity, and their completely unsolicited response was the healthcare.

http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/canfreeandfirst.html

http://www.mackinac.org/images.asp?ID=2748#939

lucky you, I pay at least fifty since I HAVE NO MED INSURANCE because I work retail because I've been downsized twice from two graphic art departments: one with the L.A. school district who cut me do to budget cuts (thanks Schwartzenagger) and once because the co. shipped out of state. In Canada, i'd still be able to at least get a check up and know if I'm gonna die next week. But yeah, there system really sucks. You're such a tool for the government its sad. Sad and freakin' scary.

Originally posted by tlbauerle
I wish I had their healthcare problems...damn, I wish I had insurance. Hell...I wish I had a job and wasn't in social services, the lowest paid area of government!

Whose healthcare problems.... the US, or Canada?

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Yeah everyone has serial killers lol. The point is that Canada's government censored the media so that none of the citizens could be informed about it. Nobody even knew there was any danger! They were just walking around like nothing was wrong when they could have at LEAST been informed to keep a look out over their shoulders.

maybe because their media doesn't want a nation afraid to leave their houses like here. And its not like they lied about why they took over Iraq...oh wait, that was us.

Well here we have corporations decide the news based on what may and may not hurt profits....and what may and may not hurt their image, or who is in office that makes lenient corporate laws.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Whose healthcare problems.... the US, or Canada?

Canada's....

I was on unemployment....and the UNEMPLOYMENT DISQUALIFIED ME FOR STATE INSURANCE. WTF?

well first of all it was in Ontario, I was aware of this when it came out, it wasnt Canadas government that cencored it either, OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) handled it.

I'm down with OPP...Yeah...you know me

as for Canadas medicine being all F'd up, I happen to be growing a third arm on my back................

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0903/0903cdnhealthcare.htm

Additionally, a recent poll in April says that 52% of Canadians wish to be allowed to purchase private healthcare while continuin the free healthcare for the poor. That sounds an AWFUL LOT like American healthcare lol... If their healthcare was so great why would they feel the need to pay for more?

because like anywhere in the world there is a long line up to get checked

Coverage may be better by an insurance company...and THAT is fine...we don't even have BASIC healthcare for Americans...at least Canada has that.

We need a good single-payer healthcare....Vote Dennis Kucinich in 2008!

serious do you know what arthroscopic surgery is??

i dont think they would rush to do this

tlbauerle, you say you have no healthcare and work in the lowest paying sector yet you seem to be able to afford your own domain....

lol

Originally posted by El_NINO
because like anywhere in the world there is a long line up to get checked

And in the United States you don't have to wait! Even if you are on free government healthcare, you don't have to wait! And yes, some peole very close to me are on government healthcare so I'd know.

are you on crack? i've seen the lines at those places. those underfunded laughing stocks of the medical world.

Originally posted by Lazerlike42
tlbauerle, you say you have no healthcare and work in the lowest paying sector yet you seem to be able to afford your own domain....

Funny how someone can pay $12 for something and get ridiculed about it...meaning they can't complain about not having $150/month for insurance. Jack ass....