Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Ok, so are you with or against the Rosary?

You should have known that if you read the entire post.

But you take too long to get to the point...*sigh* one sec...

Also along with the rosary being from these old religions such as paganism are baptism, communion, the Trinity and the concept of Hell.

It's entitled "Origin"... that's why.

OKay, for the sake of argument, since the Rosary is of Pagan origin, and against the Bible pronouncement regarding proper prayer... then I don't believe on it.

Why do you bother to fight children? (metaphorically speaking.) Even I can not counter without extensive reasearch into the fields that you have presented. Does it bring you a satisfaction of defeating those who can not defend?

Children? Defeating who can not defend? What are you talking about, Prince?

Look at yourself, I know your not stupid. Look at how you present your topic, well supported with reference, and inquisition on your part. You walk to any other thread in this forum, and you can barely get people collecting their thoughts. To have you put the time into this thread and such effort, is like asking a wall to move. I'm asking why waste the time, is you get nothing in return?

no2 I don't know what you are talking about, Prince.

The thread is not exclusively addressed to you alone, in the first place. If you don't like the thread because you can not defend your own faith from those references I presented, then you can freely stay away from this. You don't need to respond if you don't want to engage in this discussion.

It doesn't matter how much effort I could have done for this, it's none of your business, right?

If you think I'm wasting time, then it is my time, not yours.

I posted this to share the informations I have learned... ever since I was a kid.

So, let's go back to topic... if you care.

No more side-comments.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Look at yourself, I know your not stupid...

I take that comment back

Originally posted by Jury
no2 I don't know what you are talking about, Prince.

The thread is not exclusively addressed to you alone, in the first place. If you don't like the thread because you can not defend your own faith from those references I presented, then you can freely stay away from this. You don't need to respond if you don't want to engage in this discussion.

Who ever said anything other wise. And for the record, the defense for my faith is sound, do not ever think other wise.



Just offering some friendly advise, unlike you hostile response.



Well since you have it in your mind that I don't care, though i'd like to see you your proof (if you have any) let's see the response of the other people, and how fair they last.

All our religious practices are taken from paganism...All the denominations practically...you just have to accept it..The Catholics along with the Protestants.

Analyze the nature of your post here, Prince:
Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Why do you bother to fight children? (metaphorically speaking.) Even I can not counter without extensive reasearch into the fields that you have presented. Does it bring you a satisfaction of defeating those who can not defend?

I don't have to argue with irrelevant posts, Prince. As I have said, let's stick to the topic.

The Origin of Holy Rosary.

Shall we? Thank you.

Stick away, I have no arguments...

Originally posted by debbiejo
All our religious practices are taken from paganism...All the denominations practically...you just have to accept it..The Catholics along with the Protestants.
That's why I'm neither a Catholic nor a Protestant. But I do believe in the Bible.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Stick away, I have no arguments...
Thank you.

it did say ALL RELIGION which include christians.......oh and I see your crusade toward the catholics is still on, just with a little twist

The Holy Rosary is pagan in origin and against the Bible.

chrisitanity have pagan origin so it should also be against the bible then

The true Christians are found in the Bible... they are the ones who follow what was declared by God. The believers of Rosary, on the other hand, had come to the point that they violate the Holy Scriptures.

whether they are seen as true followers or not doesnt matter its the basis of the faith that are of pagan origin.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
I'm asking why waste the time, is you get nothing in return?

Again with this question? You're real big on intent aren't you? I also think you're developing a god complex.

The Bible was not inspired by God as many think...The reason Matt, Mark, Luke and John were chosen was because of the significance of the No. 4.wind, earth, air, fire...north, south, east, west..etc..There were over 100 different texts not implemented. This was documented on another thread...but Jury, you didn't read it...Constantine blended the Mithra's pagan ideas with the church to unite the people for the churches control...This is common knowledge..There were the Gnostics that were also concidered Christians that used the other texts...The church didn't like them and tried to wipe their ideas out...There are more Gnostic texts then anyother...

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Again with this question? You're real big on intent aren't you? I also think you're developing a god complex.

In that question I wasn't trying to prove a point. There I was actually serious. But "you going off topic".

True Christians ceased to exist since the death of the apostles may I remind you all. That was warned off by the apostles themselves. And I believed in that.

When the apostles declared that after them, the Church will be lead by the preachers who will introduce other beliefs (such as pagans) and some who will refuse will be killed and tormented by the wolves in sheep's clothing. Did this happen? History has proven it.

This was paralleled to what had happened to the God's first nation - the Israel... when God chose them to be His people... they inherit the land promised to them. But what did the Israelites did? They turned away from God and started to embrace paganism. Did God warned them? Many times. Did they return to Him? Many times. Did they remain steadfast? Never. That's why God sent numbers of prophets to reform the first nation but they were hard hearted and futile until the covenant stopped from them.

But by virtue of the prophecies of Old, God's second nation will exist after the 400 hundred silent years - the Christians.

As prophesied, these people will also turn away from God by embracing other beliefs... after the time the last apostle of Christ has died.

The Church was named the Roman (a pagan nation) Church. From Christ. they changed their Head to their pope. From Christ, they changed their Foundation to Peter. Others where invented and adapted from Paganism. Mass, cathedral, transubstantiation, infant baptism, lent, christmas, rosary, etc... this was the Great Apostasy the Bible has prophesied.

History repeats itself.

God sent again his messengers to reform the Church - the angel who shouts "Fallen is Babylon the Great!" But nothing happened. God has proclaimed the destiny of this "Babylon"... the eternal punishment. After 400 years again, God founded His third and last nation through His last messenger.

And after this, the end will come.

The church would of been better off without buildings and used only the people themselves as the church...The true church is people not buildings.

The Catholics have many paganism rituals, but unfortunately the protestants didn't shake theirs off either...

Originally posted by debbiejo
The church would of been better off without buildings and used only the people themselves as the church...The true church is people not buildings.
In my case, church houses are used to congregate during prayers, offerings, and preaching. For God doesn't allow anybody to practice these things anywhere. So, God has commanded His people to worship Him in a proper place - God's house.

The true Church, on the other hand, is Chirst's body. That's why it is needed for a Christian to be found inside Christ's body. But there are commandments Christ had declared on how to be a part of His body, and that is what each Christian should follow... for them to be saved. This commandments came from God and Christ... not from the Councils the Roman Church had formulated.

Originally posted by debbiejo
The Catholics have many paganism rituals, but unfortunately the protestants didn't shake theirs off either...
I agree.

the entire christ thingie is of pagan origin too, a son of god in human body sacrificed for the sake of humans

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
In that question I wasn't trying to prove a point. There I was actually serious.

On purpose? How fun!

Being that I am not cathloic I had seened the rosery but never prayed on it being that I have no idea how or what the reason is for it.JM

guess this is what they refer to as speaking in tongues

Originally posted by finti
the entire christ thingie is of pagan origin too, a son of god in human body sacrificed for the sake of humans

Yea....like Mithra...

In scriptures somewhere it says "Sun of Rightousness", I always wondered why it was spelled Sun instead of Son...Now it's clear. Sun worship is all through the scripture.

They gave importance to the elements, even in Job. This is more like what the nature religions do. The Essenes speak of the elements as angels..Wicca is also a nature religion and New Age to a degree.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
On purpose? How fun!

You know you and I will be remembered, not for our conversions or brilliant spares amongst one another, but for our pety little strifles that you cant help but hold on too.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
You know you and I will be remembered, not for our conversions or brilliant spares amongst one another, but for our pety little strifles that you cant help but hold on too.

Maybe. But, at least we'll be remembered. What can I say? I'm obsessed with you.

^^

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Maybe. But, at least we'll be remembered. What can I say? I'm obsessed with you.

I'm chamred. *sigh* you ready *whips out lightsaber*. jk

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
I'm chamred. *sigh* you ready *whips out lightsaber*. jk

I see your schwartz is as big as mine!

You've seen the movie?

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
You've seen the movie?

I'm a Star Wars super freak, how could I not have?

Come on, I don't spend all my time making your life difficult. I have other hobbies.

Hey, something we have in common... I like star wars too, cant wait for the third episode (NINE MORE DAYS FOR ME!!!!)

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Hey, something we have in common... I like star wars too, cant wait for the third episode (NINE MORE DAYS FOR ME!!!!)

Well, will wonders never cease? A friend of mine said that he has tickets for Thursaday night. But, a friend on mine is coming down to see it with me, and he won't be here until friday afternoon. (I'm gonna go...an army of Iraqi terrorists coldn't stop me)

See, I'm not such a bad guy.

Niether am I, but you make me seam like one, I'll get to see it wednesday though....

at 12:00

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Niether am I, but you make me seam like one, I'll get to see it wednesday though....

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
at 12:00


Well, that's Thursday. Which is what I meant. I just won't tell Juan that I've already seen it when he gets here on Friday.

Nah, I don't make you seem like one. We just don't agree. But, we can still get along. Just because I don't believe in the same Jesus you do, doesn't mean we can't be friends.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Well, that's Thursday. Which is what I meant. I just won't tell Juan that I've already seen it when he gets here on Friday.

Nah, I don't make you seem like one. We just don't agree. But, we can still get along. Just because I don't believe in the same Jesus you do, doesn't mean we can't be friends.

Yay, I win fifty bucks from a friend hold on... *races knocking everything over.*

7 hours after me then

Capt Fantastic... PrinceofBlades... you are not in the Off-Topic Forum. Your irrelevant posts can be talked over via PM where both of you can freely share what you feel toward each other... privately.

For your information, you are violating one of the KMC Forum Rules. So, please, post accordingly.

Thank you.

what should have been done is a mergin of all of your crusade towards/anti catholic threads into one thread instaed of several threads with the same agenda floating around

Originally posted by Jury
Capt Fantastic... PrinceofBlades... you are not in the Off-Topic Forum. Your irrelevant posts can be talked over via PM where both of you can freely share what you feel toward each other... privately.

For your information, you are violating one of the KMC Forum Rules. So, please, post accordingly.

Thank you.

No one asked you, thank you.

Originally posted by finti
what should have been done is a mergin of all of your crusade towards/anti catholic threads into one thread instaed of several threads with the same agenda floating around
They are different topics. You cannot merge them. I don't know what you are talking about of "crusade towards catholic". It's your own perception and has nothing to do with this thread.

There are a lot of threads out there which are defamatory in nature against Christian belief. All with the same agenda (as you may call it)... but do they need to merge them as one thread?

No. Why? Because they are distinct to each other.

This thread is not about me.

This thread is about the Holy Rosary.

Stay on topic.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
No one asked you, thank you.
You're welcome.

Originally posted by Jury
You're welcome.

Kinda cut yourself short there didn't ya?

And yet another side-comment.

You know you'll never win. The more you push, the more we'll push back.

Win? Is this about winning? That's what you are thinking of?

Grow up, Prince.

You can continue to ignore the topic in this thread and spread irrelevant side-comments here, but you cannot hide from the truth that Rosary is against the Bible.

Originally posted by Jury
Win? Is this about winning? That's what you are thinking of?

Grow up, Prince.

You can continue to ignore the topic in this thread and spread irrelevant side-comments here, but you cannot hide from the truth that Rosary is against the Bible.



It's never against the bible. Where does the bible say other wise that the Rosary is against it. The Our Father teaches us to Pray by Praying to "Our Father, Who art in Heave." Respecting and honoring his name, "Hollowed be thy name." We pray for the end of the world, so to speak when we say "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be Done, on Earth as it is in Heaven." We rely on God, and his infinite mercy that he will guide us everyday, "Give us this day our daily bread." And we ask to be forgiven of our transgression the same way we forgive others when they transgress against us. "And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." And we pray for God's divine judgment and guidance as we try to live a life without sin. "And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil, Amen."

We pray the Hail Mary, not as sign of worship, but as a remembrance of her life. Read Luke 1:28; when the Arch Angel Gabriel said to Mary, "Hail Mary full of grace the lord is with thee." and when she visited her sister, "Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy whom, Jesus." And we pray "Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen." This isn't worship it's called intersession. Even the bible recognizes intersection. Don't believe me? Look at Jeremiah when God said to him "Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out for these people." Jeremiah 15:1.

So what say you now?

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
It's never agains the bible. Where does the bible say other wise that the Rosary is against it. The Our Father teaches us to Pray by Praying to "Our Father, Who art in Heave." Repecting and honoring his name, "Hollowed be thy name." We pray for the end of the world, so to speak when we say "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be Done, on Earth as it is in Heaven." We rely on God, and his infinite mercy that he will guide us everyday, "Give us this day our daily bread." And we ask to be forgiven of our transgression the same way we forgive others when they transgrend against us. "And forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us." And we pray for God's divine judgment and guidance as we try to live a life without sin. "And lead us not into temptation but deliverace from evil, Amen."
Did I say "Our Father" is wrong? You do not have to explain the meaning of each line of Jesus's prayer.

"Our Father" was given by Jesus Christ as a guide when we pray. And this has nothing to do with the "repetitious praying" of the Rosary.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
We pray the Hail Mary, not as sign of worship, but as a remembrance of her life. Read Luke 1:28; when the Arch Angel Gabriel said to Mary, "Hail Mary full of grace the lord is with thee." and when she visited her sister, "Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy whom, Jesus." And we pray "Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen." This isn't worship it's called intersession. Even the bible recognizes intersection. Don't believe me? Look at Jeremiah when God said to him "Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out for these people." Jeremiah 15:1. So what say you now?
So you pray to Mary? Why? Did God commanded you to pray to her? Make her an "intercessor" between you and God? That's why you call her "Mediatrix"? Who suggested this?

Originally posted by Jury
Did I say "Our Father" is wrong? You do not have to explain the meaning of each line of Jesus's prayer.

"Our Father" was given by Jesus Christ as a guide when we pray. And this has nothing to do with the "repetitious praying" of the Rosary.


Is it not in the Rosary?

Originally posted by Jury
Did I say "Our Father" is wrong? You do not have to explain the meaning of each line of Jesus's prayer.

"Our Father" was given by Jesus Christ as a guide when we pray. And this has nothing to do with the "repetitious praying" of the Rosary.

Do you not pray to the saints? Mary's a saint isn't she? The people of the old testament did it, if you follow the bible, why don't you?

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Is it not in the Rosary?
Did God commanded us to pray like the Rosary?

Did Jesus commanded us to memorize His "Our Father" several times when we pray to God?

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Do you not pray to the saints? Mary's a saint isn't she? The people of the old testament did it, if you follow the bible, why don't you?
God's people are saints. And Mary, as one of them, was also Blessed... because these people are faithful servants of God.

We have ONE Mediator between God and men... and this is Jesus. ...not the saints... not Mary.

I do not pray to the saints... because God didn't commanded me to do so. I pray to Jesus and to our God alone.

Can you cite the biblical verse saying that God's people pray to the saints as their intercessor after God declared Jesus as the One Mediator between Him and men?

Originally posted by Jury
And yet another side-comment.

And, you'll notice...no one has been banned. Can't be too far off, can it?

Originally posted by Jury
Win? Is this about winning? That's what you are thinking of?

Grow up, Prince.

You can continue to ignore the topic in this thread and spread irrelevant side-comments here, but you cannot hide from the truth that Rosary is against the Bible.



The bible, just like these forums, was created by man...flawed, feeling human beings. All of which are capable of mistakes.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
And, you'll notice...no one has been banned. Can't be too far off, can it?
Because no one has been banned, that doesn't mean it is tolerable.

I'm just trying to RESPECT what the KMC Forum Rules are imposing while I'm here.

If you have nothing to say relevant to this thread, don't post. Or else, I'll consider your posts "discourtesy". I'm not a moderator, but as a member, I observe proper Rules.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
The bible, just like these forums, was created by man...flawed, feeling human beings. All of which are capable of mistakes.
Do you pray the Rosary? If not, why?

because it wouldnt do any good just like praying to a god wouldnt

from time to time you sure as hell act like you think you are

others might find it intereseting though so do you think many of the posters here gives a rats ass about what you find discortesy?

and this is on topic how?

Originally posted by finti
because it wouldnt do any good just like praying to a god wouldnt

from time to time you sure as hell act like you think you are

others might find it intereseting though so do you think many of the posters here gives a rats ass about what you find discortesy?
Sorry, the question is not for you to answer.

Originally posted by finti
and this is on topic how?
I know it's not. I'm just reminding somebody who posts irrelevant posts.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
The bible, just like these forums, was created by man...flawed, feeling human beings. All of which are capable of mistakes.
Now, I may ask Capt. Fantastic again, not for finti to answer, this question:

Do you pray the Rosary? If not, why?

I answer any damn question I like as long as they aint addressed to a specific name.

Originally posted by Jury
Now, I may ask Capt. Fantastic again, not for finti to answer, this question:

Do you pray the Rosary? If not, why?

To answer your question:
Originally posted by finti
because it wouldnt do any good just like praying to a god wouldnt



Originally posted by Jury
I know it's not. I'm just reminding somebody who posts irrelevant posts.

I don't know what bug crawled up your ass, but the only irrelevant thing I see is your opinion of your own authority. Are you trying to brown nose your way into being a moderator or something? Because I don't think it works that way. In fact, if you don't like something, feel free to report me to any real moderator and allow them to deal with. Otherwise, keep your over-inflated opinion of yourself out of my buisness.

As far as i know, the Rosary is for counting your prayers...

Originally posted by finti
I answer any damn question I like as long as they aint addressed to a specific name.
You're wrong. I quoted CaptFantastic... so that question was addressed to him.

To Capt Fantastic, since you're not praying the Rosary...
Then, I may say that your contention in this post: Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
The bible, just like these forums, was created by man...flawed, feeling human beings. All of which are capable of mistakes. doesn't rebuke the fact that the Rosary is against the Bible.

Originally posted by debbiejo
As far as i know, the Rosary is for counting your prayers...
Yes. The beads were used to memorize the prayers and the number it is going to be recited. ... Just like pagans did with their "Mala beads".

Originally posted by Jury
Yes. The beads were used to memorize the prayers and the number it is going to be recited. ... Just like pagans did with their "Mala beads".

So who cares if it's not with the bible, so aren't a lot of stuff. Like the fact that of the catholic church, or you being able to say "Hey that's not in the bible, so I wont follow it." You know you making a post thinking that you are going to move someone with your "Brilliant oration skills" has as much affect as me convincing you to just give it a rest already. Sometimes people don't care much about the truth, because it's better to dawn upon it, than to have an annoying little nerd keep posting in there faces "I'm stuck up, and I know everything."

(there's something for ya.)

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
So who cares if it's not with the bible, so aren't a lot of stuff. Like the fact that of the catholic church, or you being able to say "Hey that's not in the bible, so I wont follow it." You know you making a post thinking that you are going to move someone with your "Brilliant oration skills" has as much affect as me convincing you to just give it a rest already. Sometimes people don't care much about the truth, because it's better to dawn upon it, than to have an annoying little nerd keep posting in there faces "I'm stuck up, and I know everything."

(there's something for ya.)
Finally, you admit.

Thank you for being honest. Thank you for accepting the fact that Catholics faith was not based on the Bible.

So, whatever you tried to prove to me before via PM was considered "bluff".

Once again, thank you.

Keeping the Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments and are YOU keeping them???? Hummmm??

That's also in the Bible...

Practices regarding Sabbath is not imposed in the Christian era anymore.

Unlike the Rosary, which is a repetitious praying... and therefore prohibited to practice by the people of God.

Originally posted by Jury
Finally, you admit.

Thank you for being honest. Thank you for accepting the fact that Catholics faith was not based on the Bible.

So, whatever you tried to prove to me before via PM was considered "bluff".

Once again, thank you.

Thank you? What, are you forgetting that every other christian faith WAS based on Catholicism?

Originally posted by Jury
Practices regarding Sabbath is not imposed in the Christian era anymore.

Unlike the Rosary, which is a repetitious praying... and therefore prohibited to practice by the people of God.

what makes you think that?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Thank you? What, are you forgetting that every other christian faith WAS based on Catholicism?
Based on Catholicism? In what sense? Can you explain why?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
what makes you think that?
The Holy Scriptures

Originally posted by Jury
Based on Catholicism? In what sense? Can you explain why?

Of course I can explain why. Don't roll your smug eyes at me. There was no deviation of christian beliefs BEFORE Martin Luther nailed his grivenences to the church door. After that, there was a split in the catholic church and every other christian denomination was free to found itself. Learn your own history, and then maybe there'll be some basis for you thinking you moderate the religion forum.

Originally posted by Jury
The Holy Scriptures

Where in the scriptures does it say that praying more than once is a waste of time? If that's the case, then why do people still pray? Aside from that, do you honestly believe the holy scriptures weren't written by flawed feeling human beings?

I don't pray the rosary, no. But, I grew up in a world where I learned to...

What denomination are you? I was raised catholic and spent my entire educational career in catholic school and church. What's your background?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Of course I can explain why. Don't roll your smug eyes at me. There was no deviation of christian beliefs BEFORE Martin Luther nailed his grivenences to the church door. After that, there was a split in the catholic church and every other christian denomination was free to found itself. Learn your own history, and then maybe there'll be some basis for you thinking you moderate the religion forum.
That's what you call "based on Catholicism"... no2

And what Christian denomination are you talking about?

Maybe we all can learn something new......And BTW..The Sabbath wasn't done away with...Many churches still keep it.

WWW.crosscircle.com/CH_3c.htm


Protestants calling the Catholics wrong..Isn't that like the Pot calling the kettle black??

Originally posted by Jury
That's what you call "based on Catholicism"... no2

And what Christian denomination are you talking about?

Yes, that's what I call "based on the catholic religion". Disprove it. The only reason christianity survived passed ancient history is beause of the catholic church. It was the first and only world government.

the question was open even of you quoted Capt Fantastic, as long as you didnt name him as the recipient of the question it was an open one

Originally posted by finti
the question was open even of you quoted Capt Fantastic, as long as you didnt name him as the recipient of the question it was an open one

In any case, it's symantics. I'd trust you to answer a question for me. We tend to agree.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Yes, that's what I call "based on the catholic religion". Disprove it. The only reason christianity survived passed ancient history is beause of the catholic church. It was the first and only world government.
Disprove what? That Christian Denominations nowadays originated from Catholicism? Well, if that is what you are thinking then I must agree.

Catholicism was likened to the Great City of Babylon - the Woman who is the Mother of Prostitutes and of the Abominations of the Earth (latest denominations).

Catholicism is the Apostate Church, that's why she was likened to a woman who drinks a madenning wine of her adultery.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
So, what's the point in praying? In fact, it seems to disprove religion. Why ask for something that this all knowing and powerful being already knows you need or want? And then you're told to pray. The hypocrisy of organized religion only reveals that god was created by man and not the other way round. Again, praying for what you "want" is like asking santa claus for the GI Joe Hammerhead.

If the bible was inspired by an unquestionable and devine being, then why are there so many flaws and contradictions? What? Your god couldn't see 2000 years into the future? Not a very reliable god. Besides, I think the operative word there is "vain". Just like the rest of your religions beliefs.
Praying is the way one communicates to his Creator. I know that it doesn't make a sense to you. So what?

And...

Who said "my" God couldn't see 2000 years into the future?

those who wrote the bible actually did

Capt. Fantastic, who said "my" God couldn't see 2000 years into the future?

Originally posted by Jury
Finally, you admit.

Thank you for being honest. Thank you for accepting the fact that Catholics faith was not based on the Bible.

So, whatever you tried to prove to me before via PM was considered "bluff".

Once again, thank you.

Nothig is a bluff for everything I said can be supported.

Veneration

"The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed 'the honor rendered tto an image passes to its prototype,' and 'whoever venerates an image venerates the person in it.' The honor paid to sacred images is a 'respectful veneration,' not the adoration due to God alone:
Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. This movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose images it is.

But for those who don't know
Veneration(of saints)-Showing devotion and respect to Mary, the Apostles, and the martyrs, who were viewed as faithful witnesses to faith in Jesus Christ. Later, veneration was given to those who led a life of prayer and self-denial ingiving witness to Christ, whose virtues were recognized and publicaly proclaimed in their canonizaton as Saints.

I would post more but I have to go, free period in school is up...

Originally posted by Jury
Praying is the way one communicates to his Creator. I know that it doesn't make a sense to you. So what?

But, he knows everything already...doesn't he? Or what? Does he just enjoy the protocol? Why does he make you jump through hoops?

Originally posted by Jury
Who said "my" God couldn't see 2000 years into the future?

Your own hypocritical beliefs. In fact, it looks to me that a majority of your religions views places god in this category of unimaginable ability, and then treats him like your average long distance relationship. "If you need something, wirte him a letter and be sure to ask real nice like."

Originally posted by Jury
Practices regarding Sabbath is not imposed in the Christian era anymore.

Unlike the Rosary, which is a repetitious praying... and therefore prohibited to practice by the people of God.


Well, I always said "God is great, god is good let us thank Him for our food. A...men.." When I was little I'd repeat that at dinner time. We would race really really fast to see who could say it quickest...Then w'd do a hail Mary, kiss the cross, the pope, and Thank Mithra for the day and for the protestants..

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
Nothig is a bluff for everything I said can be supported.

Veneration

"The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed 'the honor rendered tto an image passes to its prototype,' and 'whoever venerates an image venerates the person in it.' The honor paid to sacred images is a 'respectful veneration,' not the adoration due to God alone:
Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. This movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose images it is.

But for those who don't know
Veneration(of saints)-Showing devotion and respect to Mary, the Apostles, and the martyrs, who were viewed as faithful witnesses to faith in Jesus Christ. Later, veneration was given to those who led a life of prayer and self-denial ingiving witness to Christ, whose virtues were recognized and publicaly proclaimed in their canonizaton as Saints.

I would post more but I have to go, free period in school is up...
Prince, do you believe that VENERATION is WORSHIP?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
But, he knows everything already...doesn't he? Or what? Does he just enjoy the protocol? Why does he make you jump through hoops?

God already knows what we want. But because He want His people to come to Him with a heart to ask what they really need. This only shows how God's people trust Him.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Your own hypocritical beliefs. In fact, it looks to me that a majority of your religions views places god in this category of unimaginable ability, and then treats him like your average long distance relationship. "If you need something, wirte him a letter and be sure to ask real nice like."You didn't directly answer my question: Who said "my" God couldn't see 2000 years into the future? Was it me? If not, then it's not my contention to say that "my God couldn't see 2000 years into the future". So, no need for me to argue with this one.

What is it with you and Catholics..?? I think you need another hobby.

Religion Forum, I guess

Originally posted by Jury
God already knows what we want. But because He want His people to come to Him with a heart to ask what they really need. This only shows how God's people trust Him.
You didn't directly answer my question: Who said "my" God couldn't see 2000 years into the future? Was it me? If not, then it's not my contention to say that "my God couldn't see 2000 years into the future". So, no need for me to argue with this one.


Don't muddy the waters with bullshit that doesn't respond to my question. If god already knows what you want, then why does there exist the need to pray? On top of that, the world isn't 1000 years old anymore, did god not see there would be a need for change? Apparently he did not. What a limited god you have. And, I can't answer your question more directly than I did...with a question. Your confusion is hardly my problem.

Originally posted by Jury
Prince, do you believe that VENERATION is WORSHIP?


No, it is an honor system one we give to the Saints, and Mary.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Don't muddy the waters with bullshit that doesn't respond to my question. If god already knows what you want, then why does there exist the need to pray? On top of that, the world isn't 1000 years old anymore, did god not see there would be a need for change? Apparently he did not. What a limited god you have. And, I can't answer your question more directly than I did...with a question. Your confusion is hardly my problem.
Because He is God. It is obligatory for His servants to pray to Him and worship Him.

A need for change? Like what?

Your problem... not mine.

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
No, it is an honor system one we give to the Saints, and Mary.
Do you know what Dulia and Hyperdulia are?

Originally posted by Jury
Do you know what Dulia and Hyperdulia are?

Do you know what "I'm holding the actual doctrines to Worship and Veneration, The Assumption of Mary, The Foundation of the Catholic Church, Prayer and it's many forms, and so much other junk that would knock you off your soap box faster than you can say 'CRAP'?" No I bet you dont. You know of all the people here, I believe you hold the greatest intolerance and lowest form of debate skills. YOU CAN NOT EVANGILIZE PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET. Do not super impose your thoughts on this website let alone this forum. You will come here and tell people your beliefs, only so that you can be ridiculed and spat at. Than later go to God and say "Look Lord, I'm a martry." And he'll respond ,"No son, your a suicide commiter." If you consider this self sacrifise, it isn't pleasing God. Open threads that intrest the people not pathetic and useless attempts of teaching someone. Make connections with todays current events. Relate history, invoke paradoxes. Because to solve a paradox one MUST USE PHILOSPHY. And there you learn and contrast with people. You know I guess I was wrong when I thought you would get this concept. But i'm an only lowering myself to quarrel with you.

We are not quarelling. I don't know why you would think something like that.

We are in a Forum and I am nopt evangelizing people. We are discussing stuff.

So, for the sake of this discussion, I may ask:

Do you know what Dulia and Hyperdulia are?

A simple "Yes-No" question.

Waiting for your response Prince.

you are assuming stuff, not discussing it. You still dont admit it but you have an agenda agianst the catholics. Being the hypocrit that you are of an arrogant denomination you try to find faults of the largest christian denomination, you are just too much of a coward to admit your true agenda. Ive encontered too many of your wanna be jehhovas witnesses cult`called church of christ, youre just a feeble bunch of a sorry excuse of christians..the lowest of low

OH....JW's...I thought so when you were debating ClickClick...Gee wonder what ever happened to him...I have JW's come and visit me from time to time....They drop off the magazines and we say hi, but they no where I'm commin from.....I'm a heretic.

clickclick is a JW? ... they are against blood transfusion, right?

I don't know what Click Click was...you debated him...don't you know?

Yeah before... but I didn't know what he was.

dont mix cc into this CoC is a wannabe JW

wannabe JW?

I don't believe that God's name should be Jehovah anyway.

church of christ are wannabes JW`s

Really? Why did you say so?

besides it being the truth you mean?

I just wanted to take a minute to reply to the individual who wrote the article about the Holy Rosary. I found it very inciteful and interesting. I have currently been studying religion and agree with most of your info. I am neither Catholic or Protestant, but searching for something real. and not a denomination that is based on many pagenistic practises. I guess we all have a right to our own opinions-I'm posting this not to debate with anyone but to simply say I was enlightened by your info.

Welcome to KMC.

guess christianity as a whole is out of the question then

Wow, I leave for at least ten hours, and we went from "discussing" to "yeah didn't you here CLick Click is a JW's" and jury agreeing to avoid certain execution...

Just out of curiosity, why do feel that all of christianity is pagenistic?

^ You'll have to go back and read some of the threads...Or you can do some searches on mithra, mithra and christ, the sun god, or, paganism and christ..etc..And it's not all of Christianity, just most of it..

Literally and technically speaking, Christians, Jews, and Muslims are not pagans... Even their origins didn't tell us that they are pagans.

Pagans believe in the multiplicity of gods, while these three large religions are strictly monotheistic.

The similarity of Christ's being the Son of God (as He really is) with the paganistic concept of Mithra, the Sun God... is just a perception of unbelievers. But there is a big difference. Jesus exists, Mithra doesn't.

Originally posted by Jury
Literally and technically speaking, Christians, Jews, and Muslims are not pagans... Even their origins didn't tell us that they are pagans.

Pagans believe in the multiplicity of gods, while these three large religions are strictly monotheistic.

The similarity of Christ's being the Son of God (as He really is) with the paganistic concept of Mithra, the Sun God... is just a perception of unbelievers. But there is a big difference. Jesus exists, Mithra doesn't.

Or there all different names for the same person...

So, how's my question, Prince?
Care to answer?

I may ask again, in case you forgot.

Originally posted by Jury
So, how's my question, Prince?
Care to answer?

I may ask again, in case you forgot.

ask again.

Originally posted by Jury
So, how's my question, Prince?
Care to answer?

I may ask again, in case you forgot.

frusty

Can somebody kill me now???

Originally posted by debbiejo
frusty

Can somebody kill me now???

I could be of service, but I wouldn't want to kill a friend... unless the pay is good, than we're only acquittance's.

Lets all just kill ourselves and suprize Jury...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Lets all just kill ourselves and suprize Jury...

Ok, i'll get the mines....

Prince, do you know what Dulia and Hyperdulia are?

Are they flowers?

I'm pretty sure Prince knew it... just want to confirm.

Originally posted by Jury
Prince, do you know what Dulia and Hyperdulia are?

I have a vase of them on the table...purple and yellow ones..

Ah, so you really mean the real flowers.

Well, I were asking Prince if he knows what Dulia and Hyperdulia are when used in Catholic Doctrine.

Originally posted by Jury
Ah, so you really mean the real flowers.

Well, I were asking Prince if he knows what Dulia and Hyperdulia are when used in Catholic Doctrine.

I don't recognize that, as it contradicts bible, and catholic teaching. I refer only to Catechism of the Catholic Church, and if it says Mary and the Saints are to be honored, than honored they shall be.

So you don't recognize Dulia and Hyperdulia as part of Catholic Doctrine?

Originally posted by PrinceofBlades
I don't recognize that, as it contradicts bible, and catholic teaching. I refer only to Catechism of the Catholic Church, and if it says Mary and the Saints are to be honored, than honored they shall be.
There you admit that Catholic teachings regarding Dulia and Hyperdulia contradict the Catechism itself. Do you know what it is called? It's INCONSISTENCY in doctrines.

The Catechism also teaches that you honor Mary. Well, that's good.

I also honor Mary as the mother of Jesus, I honor Adam as God's first human creation, I honor Moses, Noah, Abraham, the Prophets, the Aposltes. I honor them, because they are God's people. I also honor my parents - my father and mother - for that is the second important commandment with promise.

My question is: How do you honor Mary?

As the Queen of Heaven?
As the Mediatrix?
As the Co-Redemptrix?
As the one having an empire where all things and God included are subject to her?
As the one having a great power which wields over the one who is God?

These were the proclamations of your Saints.
You honor your Saints - and it doesn't end there - you also honor their images, relics and works.

How can you disregard the Saints proclamation while honoring them at the same time?

You just light a candle.

I remember the practice of lighting candles before images of Mary, etc... and in the Catholic churches were taken from the Pagans...

How is it called? LUPERCALIA? PASCHAL Candles?

There are a few different names I guess...not sure..Isn't Paschal lamb..like in passover lamb?

There is a Paschal Candle indeed. Also the term Candlemas. Burning Incense. Altar Candles. Purification or something? Candle Blessing.. etc.

Adapted from Paganic Lupercalia. Also the feast where the concept of Valentine's day was taken from.

Yup the Catholics are pagan, but soooo are the protestants, cause I've read history about their practices too...Infact I've done them.

Let not leave out the Jews too...Their Holy Days coincide with many pagan days.....

I hope lightnings not going to stike.
blowup