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Who wins??

If Galactus was simply mass and muscle, it'd be Apocalypse without even having to blink. However, he's definitely NOT. Galactus all the way although, i remember something from X-men Evo when Apocalypse flies into a Sentinel and "posesses" it, then makes it explode from inside out.

Something tells me he'd find it quite impossible to do that to the big G.

ps: i doubt you'll get many replies to this thread

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
If Galactus was simply mass and muscle, it'd be Apocalypse without even having to blink. However, he's definitely NOT. Galactus all the way although, i remember something from X-men Evo when Apocalypse flies into a Sentinel and "posesses" it, then makes it explode from inside out.

Something tells me he'd find it quite impossible to do that to the big G.

ps: i doubt you'll get many replies to this thread

~wickerman~

Well Evo Apocalypse is much more powerful than comic Apocalypse.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Well Evo Apocalypse is much more powerful than comic Apocalypse.

Pretty much everything Evo is stronger than the comic equivalent. But it's still a cool series if you ask me....to take Mr. Smiley's expression, they managed to "smallville" the x-men and i liked the way it came out.

~wickerman~

Unicron all the way...though Galactus would make things interesting if ALL his heralds were involved.

Apocalypse is not a factor.

I didn't even notice Unicron in the title. Also, i'm incredibly ignorant in the Unicron field, knowing close to zilch. Please help a Unicronic n00b with some information Lord S. Thanks in advance

~wickerman~

If it is comic unicron...then Unicron all the way.

Originally posted by Wickerman
Pretty much everything Evo is stronger than the comic equivalent. But it's still a cool series if you ask me



Well it's cool series for me too, seeing Apocalypse being so pwoerful and much more than comic one, that was cool.

Unicron I will justify it later if no one else does

Comic Apocalypse takes this battle, cause he is too powerful for tham (kidding). Unicron takes it.

Comic Unicron is a GOD. Gotta be him all the way.

Unicron would just EAT them all.

Who is Evo Apocalypse? And were does He appear?

Originally posted by Wickerman
I didn't even notice Unicron in the title. Also, i'm incredibly ignorant in the Unicron field, knowing close to zilch. Please help a Unicronic n00b with some information Lord S. Thanks in advance

~wickerman~ I wasn't aware of a comic version of Unicron, but oh well. Old-school Unicron was this gigantic planet eating Transformer. Very much like Galactus, but utterly massive in size and power. We first saw him in the Transformers movie.

When he tried to consume Cybertron, all the Transformers came together in an effort to stop him. They were hopelessly overmatched...even Grimlock and the Dinobots could do nothing more than put a little dent in his ass. Eventually the power of the Matrix was unleashed by Hotrod...transforming him into the new Autobot leader, Rodimus Prime, and destroying Unicron in the process.

Originally posted by Mider
Who is Evo Apocalypse? And were does He appear?

Evo is short for Evolution, meaning the tv series X-Men Evolution. Apocalypse makes a HUGE rumble in there (even though the story is pretty screwed). However, just by raising his fist he first takes out the upgraded full power Magneto, then does the same thing but this time to both Storm and full power Xavier (which is also enhancing his powers with Cerebro's help). Sooo.....yes......all those long boring "I am Apocalypse, glimpse unto me and see the future. I am the inevitable bla bla bla" sh8t speeches are finally worth it.

~wickerman~

Unicron

Galactus wins.

Assuming this is the mainstream Marvel version of Unicron; then he hasn't done anything beyond Galactus' abilities. Most impressive thing he's done would be his battle with Primus (who's supposed to be a universal entity). Here are the retellings of the event (going by Transformers US), 1st scan is from issue #61, 2nd is from #74:

http://i.imgur.com/zFjLYlN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PqGc8br.jpg

in that 2nd retelling he's supposed to have consumed the previous universe also.

Now the interesting thing is that the Transformers handbook (pertaining the mainstream Marvel continuity), elevated Unicron (and Primus) to multiversal status, despite the fact that no such thing was shown on panel:

http://i.imgur.com/xV89C7h.jpg?1

"spread their entirety.... throughout many realities"

If i had to guess id say that it's most likely because other continuities portrayed Unicron as multiversal, one example would be the portrayal in Transformers: Cybertron.

...Still nothing beyond Galactus, though (Galactus has done better, in fact). And Unicron has low showings just as well. Some random Transformers conventional weapons were hurting him (although his defeats are through a plot device)

Id give Galactus the win because of better high end feats.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Unicron

Any particular reason? Or are you not going by the mainstream Marvel version of Unicron?

Galactus with ease.

Originally posted by operator616
in that 2nd retelling he's supposed to have consumed the previous universe also.
http://imgur.com/sBjzOoz
http://imgur.com/ZzY2zjs
http://imgur.com/NJppj0I

But to be fair...
a.) We can't really say how long it took him to accomplish that feat. Based on the *other* retelling, it certainly wasn't instantaneous.
b.) He wasn't overly thorough when he consumed said creation, as fragments of the old realmS(plural) still existed in the wake of his frenzy--this is how the second Transformers-verse was ultimately created.

Originally posted by operator616
Now the interesting thing is that the Transformers handbook (pertaining the mainstream Marvel continuity), elevated Unicron (and Primus) to multiversal status, despite the fact that no such thing was shown on panel:

http://i.imgur.com/xV89C7h.jpg?1

"spread their entirety.... throughout many realities"

If i had to guess id say that it's most likely because other continuities portrayed Unicron as multiversal, one example would be the portrayal in Transformers: Cybertron. Could be in reference to this:
http://imgur.com/1OWxTZw
"You speak of a future that may or may not come to pass. A Unicron I may or may not become... With each action we create alternate timelines, where events proceed in their own unique fashion. I simply poached you from one of my possible futures."

It's also worth noting that back in the day, terms like "Omniversal Matrix" were used within the Transformers-universe--Primus himself sought to unite with it, in fact:
http://imgur.com/X0nTTVE

...And like you said, there was also this fairly explicit mentioning of a multiverse during 'Cybertron, Balancing Act':
http://imgur.com/HBn4MhW
http://imgur.com/wrx5j3J
http://imgur.com/BUuILDW

Originally posted by Galan007

http://imgur.com/sBjzOoz
http://imgur.com/ZzY2zjs
http://imgur.com/NJppj0I

But to be fair...
a.) We can't really say how long it took him to accomplish that feat. Based on the *other* retelling, it certainly wasn't instantaneous.
b.) He wasn't overly thorough when he consumed said creation, as fragments of the old realmS(plural) still existed in the wake of his frenzy--this is how the second Transformers-verse was ultimately created.

Could be in reference to this:
http://imgur.com/1OWxTZw
"You speak of a future that may or may not come to pass. A Unicron I may or may not become... With each action we create alternate timelines, where events proceed in their own unique fashion. I simply poached you from one of my possible futures."

It's also worth noting that back in the day, terms like "Omniversal Matrix" were used within the Transformers-universe--Primus himself sought to unite with it, in fact:
http://imgur.com/X0nTTVE

...And like you said, there was also this fairly explicit mentioning of a multiverse during 'Cybertron, Balancing Act':
http://imgur.com/HBn4MhW
http://imgur.com/wrx5j3J
http://imgur.com/BUuILDW Damn, missed my editing window.

Anyway, I wanted to highlight this portion of my last scan:
http://i.imgur.com/g5uTiQd.jpg

After all of that typing and editing, Galan, Apocalypse still stomps.

Yeah, but that goes w/o saying.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/tumblr_lk569yfzf01qzguyto1_500.gif

Galactus eats them.

http://i.imgur.com/senGFZJ.gif

Originally posted by Galan007

http://imgur.com/sBjzOoz
http://imgur.com/ZzY2zjs
http://imgur.com/NJppj0I

But to be fair...
a.) We can't really say how long it took him to accomplish that feat. Based on the *other* retelling, it certainly wasn't instantaneous.
b.) He wasn't overly thorough when he consumed said creation, as fragments of the old realmS(plural) still existed in the wake of his frenzy--this is how the second Transformers-verse was ultimately created.


Good points. And that's why i didn't really emphasize on this, because that "feat" is hard to gauge when we don't know the specifics.

Originally posted by Galan007

Could be in reference to this:
http://imgur.com/1OWxTZw
"You speak of a future that may or may not come to pass. A Unicron I may or may not become... With each action we create alternate timelines, where events proceed in their own unique fashion. I simply poached you from one of my possible futures."


Nah, that's Unicron telling Galvatron that it was an alternate version of him (as opposed to being actually him) who betrayed him. An alternate timeline. Like the one we saw 2 issues prior:

http://i.imgur.com/2cvyHXs.jpg

That's also not the only alternate version of Unicron shown in Marvel.
---

That's quite different from Unicron spreading his "entirety" throughout the dimensions.

Like i said this idea is most likely from another continuity. Like the one shown in Transformers Cybertron Balancing acts:

http://i.imgur.com/m4geBXw.jpg

"the Unicron singularity will replicate itself in dimension after dimension"

That imo, is what translates to "spreading his entirety throughout many realities.

Originally posted by Galan007

It's also worth noting that back in the day, terms like "Omniversal Matrix" were used within the Transformers-universe--Primus himself sought to unite with it, in fact:
http://imgur.com/X0nTTVE




Originally posted by Galan007

...And like you said, there was also this fairly explicit mentioning of a multiverse during 'Cybertron, Balancing Act':
http://imgur.com/HBn4MhW
http://imgur.com/wrx5j3J
http://imgur.com/BUuILDW

Originally posted by Galan007
I wanted to highlight this portion of my last scan:
http://i.imgur.com/g5uTiQd.jpg

Those are not in the mainstream Marvel continuity though. Which is why i mentioned that the handbook (pertaining the mainstream Marvel continuity) probably got the idea from other continuities (like the balancing acts story)

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, but that goes w/o saying.

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/tumblr_lk569yfzf01qzguyto1_500.gif

Regarding "mainstream" Transformers' standing (whether it's a universe or a multiverse), it's a multiverse (separated from the mainstream Marvel multiverse but within the megaverse as confirmed in Marvunapp) from what ive seen. There are several references to alternate timelines, parallel realities. Here's one example from Transformers UK (previous post of mine).

Transformers UK #87 references parallel dimensions (time-travel may end up in a parallel dimension)

http://i.imgur.com/auPPBCI.jpg?1

Same thing next issue:

http://i.imgur.com/h7AAZjr.jpg?1

(there are many other examples)

Handbooks:

In the Transformers Ultimate Guide, The Unicron/Primus bios (pertaining Marvel Continuity) reference countless parallel realities:

http://i.imgur.com/RbeRdM8.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/9q3dOEc.jpg?1

Originally posted by operator616
Nah, that's Unicron telling Galvatron that it was an alternate version of him (as opposed to being actually him) who betrayed him. An alternate timeline. Like the one we saw 2 issues prior:

http://i.imgur.com/2cvyHXs.jpg

That's also not the only alternate version of Unicron shown in Marvel.
---

That's quite different from Unicron spreading his "entirety" throughout the dimensions.

Like i said this idea is most likely from another continuity. Like the one shown in Transformers Cybertron Balancing acts:

http://i.imgur.com/m4geBXw.jpg

"the Unicron singularity will replicate itself in dimension after dimension"

That imo, is what translates to "spreading his entirety throughout many realities. Could be. Mainly posted that as further proof that the T-U was a multiverse back in the day.

Originally posted by operator616
Those are not in the mainstream Marvel continuity though. Which is why i mentioned that the handbook (pertaining the mainstream Marvel continuity) probably got the idea from other continuities (like the balancing acts story) Posted those as proof that the T-U remains to be a multiverse in current continuity. IDW has no bearing on Marvel, obviously.

^

I must add: my post above, was merely to further confirm that a multiverse exists in the mainstream Transformers continuity. You provided some yourself as well, so you deserve some credit.

Tbh the single best evidence that it was a multiverse under Marvel(aside from explicit references) is the fact that characters like Spider-Man appeared in a few of the issues. This tells us it was meant to take place within the prime Marvel continuum which, back in the 80's, was unarguably a multiverse.

As for the credit, I could care less. Thanks, though.

Originally posted by Galan007
Tbh the single best evidence that it was a multiverse under Marvel(aside from explicit references) is the fact that characters like Spider-Man appeared in a few of the issues. This tells us it was meant to take place within the prime Marvel continuum which, back in the 80's, was unarguably a multiverse.


It's actually not within the prime/mainstream Marvel muttiverse. It's separate.

Those Spiderman (and other characters appeared as well) are just stupid. Because Transformers was always meant to be separate. That's why there is no Eternity or Infinity or Galactus (etc...) there (while in any alternate reality within the mainstream multiverse, there are). That's why it's a separate multiverse:

http://www.marvunapp.com/list/app8162.htm

Go to the bottom, it reads:

On the other hand, due to the fact that the hierarchy of cosmic characters of both Transformers universes does not mesh with the usual Marvel assortment of cosmic beings one could place them in the Marvel Megaverse along with such tertiary realms as Earth-Shadowline.

Either way those mainstream characters appearing in the Transformers universe is nonsense since it's definitely not in 616 reality, it's designated as Earth-120185 (and that doesn't mean it's just a universe, there are other multiverses who have a single designation but are undeniably a multiverse):

http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

You may think it's nonsense, but the intent was clear--the T-U was, at least originally, meant to take place within the mainstream Marvel multiverse.

That's why issue #3 shows us Spider-Man, Nick Fury, Joe Robertson--and also references The Daily Bugle, SHIELD, etc. That's why there's a notation at the bottom of the page that states "This story takes place before Spider-Man #258.":
http://imgur.com/wmunhbj

On-panel trumps bios and weberdence.

Originally posted by Galan007
You may think it's nonsense, but the intent was clear--the T-U was, at least originally, meant to take place within the mainstream Marvel multiverse.



and i for one LOVED those old books. i thought having heroes pop up on occasion was great.

Originally posted by Galan007
You may think it's nonsense, but the intent was clear--the T-U was, at least originally, meant to take place within the mainstream Marvel multiverse.

That's why issue #3 shows us Spider-Man, Nick Fury, Joe Robertson--and also references The Daily Bugle, SHIELD, etc. That's why there's a notation at the bottom of the page that states "This story takes place before Spider-Man #258.":
http://imgur.com/wmunhbj

On-panel trumps bios and weberdence.

I don't agree.

I told you that this instance doesn't change my mind, not in the very least. I know of it and ive noticed that kind of shit happen before.

1) Now, observe how Merlyn (same one who's associated with Captain Britain) appears in a Doctor Who comic which is meant to take place in a separate multiverse:

The Daredevils #10, we know Merlyn has certain aspects through which he acts:

http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?2

Pay close attention this particular aspect:

http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?3

Now observe, how this same aspect appears in Doctor Who (monthly) Magazine comics. Here are two scans from issue #60:

http://i.imgur.com/JRORN1f.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/m4uEpgC.jpg?1

See? (don't tell me that Merlyn is different from the heroes, because he's not. He shouldn't pop up in a completely separate and totally unrelated continuity).

So another character (who's supposed to be centered in mainstream marvel multiverse), appeared in an entirely separate continuity/multiverse (I have several Doctor Who comics acknowledging other multiverseS, and referencing the omniverse several times).

I also have direct references from Captain Britain and MI13, to certain characters from the Doctor Who multiverse (which should have no relation whatsoever with the mainstream multiverse).

There are more examples. I can post them, if you want.
-----------------------------------

2) Now that we established that this kind of nonsense has happened in other continuities as well. Consider this:

The Transformers multiverse has a completely separate cosmic hierarchy, it's own creation story (with no Eternity or Infinity) or any other mainstream Marvel cosmic beings.

That's why Marvunapp (Snood's argument) says:

Transformers and Gi Joe will only be part of the Marvel multiverse once they run into Galactus, the Watcher, Eternity, etc...

Hmm, is that true? Yes it is! 3 Separate Handbooks confirm this long established fact:

2006 Handbook (LT's bio):

realms lacking the hierarchy of power are outside of the multiverse :

http://i.imgur.com/kW3ijee.jpg?1

2005 handbooks:

outside of the multiverse ......... these realms lack the cosmic being hierarchy of the mainstream multiverse:

http://i.imgur.com/cldF2nP.jpg?1

Same handbook:

Earth shadowline lacks the universal structure and hierarchy of Earth-616 or similar words, and thus it would be considered outside the mainstream multiverse :

http://i.imgur.com/5njhq1p.jpg?1

I mean, think about it. Transformers is generally dissociated from the mainstream multiverse, always has been. The official handbook gave it a designation # (at least to confirm that it's a separate reality and not the same as the 616 one). That's why you don't see Transformers characters having bio entries in the OHOTMU, that's why you don't see mainstream cosmic beings in the Transformers multiverse.

Makes perfect sense.

....Unless what you want a reference in a Transformers comic saying that "these events take place in another multiverse"....no, that's not how it works, nobody does that.

The first time Earth-Shadowline ever appeared (confirmed to be a reality beyond the multiverse), in Doctor Zero it never said something like "in another universe", the handbook clarified that, because Earth-Shadowline had no cosmic hierarchy, no gods, nothing. Only Shadow dwellers. Same thing goes to other titles such as DP7...it doesn't start with something like "in another universe/multiverse".....nope.
-----------------------------------

3) One last thing:

Those instances you highlighted makes no sense however you look at it. Because the 2006 handbook officially designated the Transformers UK (Spidey and the others appeared in issue #4, remember this is UK) as a completely separate reality:

http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

So, does this make sense to anyone here? (especially with the example provided above)

I know the text is a bit too long, but anyone who reads it, can understand why i think Transformers is separate from the mainstream multiverse.

....Is this a Bronies thread?

Uni

Originally posted by operator616
I don't agree.

I told you that this instance doesn't change my mind, not in the very least. I know of it and ive noticed that kind of shit happen before.

1) Now, observe how Merlyn (same one who's associated with Captain Britain) appears in a Doctor Who comic which is meant to take place in a separate multiverse:

The Daredevils #10, we know Merlyn has certain aspects through which he acts:

http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?2

Pay close attention this particular aspect:

http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?3

Now observe, how this same aspect appears in Doctor Who (monthly) Magazine comics. Here are two scans from issue #60:

http://i.imgur.com/JRORN1f.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/m4uEpgC.jpg?1

See? (don't tell me that Merlyn is different from the heroes, because he's not. He shouldn't pop up in a completely separate and totally unrelated continuity).

So another character (who's supposed to be centered in mainstream marvel multiverse), appeared in an entirely separate continuity/multiverse (I have several Doctor Who comics acknowledging other multiverseS, and referencing the omniverse several times).

I also have direct references from Captain Britain and MI13, to certain characters from the Doctor Who multiverse (which should have no relation whatsoever with the mainstream multiverse).

There are more examples. I can post them, if you want.
-----------------------------------

2) Now that we established that this kind of nonsense has happened in other continuities as well. Consider this:

The Transformers multiverse has a completely separate cosmic hierarchy, it's own creation story (with no Eternity or Infinity) or any other mainstream Marvel cosmic beings.

That's why Marvunapp (Snood's argument) says:

Transformers and Gi Joe will only be part of the Marvel multiverse once they run into Galactus, the Watcher, Eternity, etc...

Hmm, is that true? Yes it is! 3 Separate Handbooks confirm this long established fact:

2006 Handbook (LT's bio):

realms lacking the hierarchy of power are outside of the multiverse :

http://i.imgur.com/kW3ijee.jpg?1

2005 handbooks:

outside of the multiverse ......... these realms lack the cosmic being hierarchy of the mainstream multiverse:

http://i.imgur.com/cldF2nP.jpg?1

Same handbook:

Earth shadowline lacks the universal structure and hierarchy of Earth-616 or similar words, and thus it would be considered outside the mainstream multiverse :

http://i.imgur.com/5njhq1p.jpg?1

I mean, think about it. Transformers is generally dissociated from the mainstream multiverse, always has been. The official handbook gave it a designation # (at least to confirm that it's a separate reality and not the same as the 616 one). That's why you don't see Transformers characters having bio entries in the OHOTMU, that's why you don't see mainstream cosmic beings in the Transformers multiverse.

Makes perfect sense.

....Unless what you want a reference in a Transformers comic saying that "these events take place in another multiverse"....no, that's not how it works, nobody does that.

The first time Earth-Shadowline ever appeared (confirmed to be a reality beyond the multiverse), in Doctor Zero it never said something like "in another universe", the handbook clarified that, because Earth-Shadowline had no cosmic hierarchy, no gods, nothing. Only Shadow dwellers. Same thing goes to other titles such as DP7...it doesn't start with something like "in another universe/multiverse".....nope.
-----------------------------------

3) One last thing:

Those instances you highlighted makes no sense however you look at it. Because the 2006 handbook officially designated the Transformers UK (Spidey and the others appeared in issue #4, remember this is UK) as a completely separate reality:

http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

So, does this make sense to anyone here? (especially with the example provided above)

I know the text is a bit too long, but anyone who reads it, can understand why i think Transformers is separate from the mainstream multiverse. Using scenes from completely unrelated comics doesn't prove your point. Not one bit.

Once more, the original intent was crystal clear: the T-U was meant to co-exist in mainstream Marvel. I know this because: a.) Spider-Man and Nick Fury(who appeared in the issue) cannot dimension-hop, and b.) Because a canon/mainstream comic was specifically cited in the issue itself:
http://i.imgur.com/FQBP5Zy.jpg

You can't ignore that.

^ "Ignore"....Okay, Let's try this the other way around, shall we (hopefully you'll realize that im simply looking at the bigger picture, which is why i chose to dismiss the instance):

So, im willing to set aside the other continuities per your request (and only stick to Transformers), even though it's a valid counterargument but ok, ill play along...

There are plenty of things to contradict that it's not on Earth-616, first of all, Transformers UK is outright designated as being Earth-120185 rather than Earth-616 (you can't ignore that either):

http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

That said...I dunno, let me think of a random contradictory example.....something like Transformers Generation 2 (in Marvel continuity) involving an attack from Decepticons on Earth (told in "Tales of Earth" from issue #4 till #12)

On panel, San Francisco getting utterly obliterated in Transformers Generation 2 #11

http://i.imgur.com/rNF11KT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/guW2KHX.jpg

An entire portion of the Earth gets obliterated:

http://i.imgur.com/qz8n3Sr.jpg?1

....Yet nobody on Earth-616 notices/gets involved/references/gives a damn. seems legit.....better yet:

Confirmation that San Francisco was still intact on Earth 616 from X-Men's title published a few months after the Transformers cataclysmic event:

(not that it needs to be proven, i just like to be thorough).

http://i.imgur.com/uMEFXTx.jpg?1

Or let's say something like this....from Transformers US #17:

http://i.imgur.com/266hdIn.jpg?1

Soundwave says that the planet Earth (which they intend to conquer) is full of humans that are inferior to the Transformers in every way , and the only force capable of posing a threat to them is Optimus and his team (because it's not like Earth/planet-616 is filled with Superheroes, that are more than capable of handling the Decepticons)

Sure, let's forget about all of the Superheroes that are present on Earth-616.....because you know, the best defense Earth has without Optimus are humans!!!

See where im coming from? (Those are just 2 examples, but i hope you get the point)

Ask yourself this:

Is it a coincidence that no single Transformers issue served as a tie-in to a Marvel event?

Is it a coincidence that no single Transformers character has an official bio in the OHOTMU?

Is it a coincidence that no single character appeared/thing appeared after issue #8 ever again, with no hints/references/anything?

Is it a coincidence that the mainstream cosmic beings of Marvel don't exist in the Transformers multiverse? Believe it or not, this is the basic rule for a reality/multiverse to be outside the mainstream. Like in Quasar #31, the Watcher says that there are Watchers throughout the entire multiverse, but outside the multiverse, no Wacthers exist:

http://i.imgur.com/NgeUBtd.jpg?1

(Just like there are no Watchers in the Transformers reality)

3 handbooks back it up, and that's a basic rule.


---------------------------------------
I told you that there was no doubt in my mind that it's separate, and i stand by that opinion. When one reads Transformers it becomes crystal clear that it's meant to be separate from the mainstream continuity. Im sure you've read enough to realize that.

I hope you can see by now that im simply trying to make sense of this continuity mess. Which after that awful beginning, got ignored and forgotten....as it should be.

----------------------------------------

Btw, i just noticed: My 1st Merlyn scan is from Daredevils #1, not #10 (added the "0" by mistake), just so that nobody gets the wrong info.

Originally posted by ~The Wickerman~
Pretty much everything Evo is stronger than the comic equivalent.



What a load of bullsh*t...

Originally posted by operator616
^ "Ignore"....Okay, Let's try this the other way around, shall we (hopefully you'll realize that im simply looking at the bigger picture, which is why i chose to dismiss the instance):

So, im willing to set aside the other continuities per your request (and only stick to Transformers), even though it's a valid counterargument but ok, ill play along...

There are plenty of things to contradict that it's not on Earth-616, first of all, Transformers UK is outright designated as being Earth-120185 rather than Earth-616 (you can't ignore that either):

http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

That said...I dunno, let me think of a random contradictory example.....something like Transformers Generation 2 (in Marvel continuity) involving an attack from Decepticons on Earth (told in "Tales of Earth" from issue #4 till #12)

On panel, San Francisco getting utterly obliterated in Transformers Generation 2 #11

http://i.imgur.com/rNF11KT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/guW2KHX.jpg

An entire portion of the Earth gets obliterated:

http://i.imgur.com/qz8n3Sr.jpg?1

....Yet nobody on Earth-616 notices/gets involved/references/gives a damn. seems legit.....better yet:

Confirmation that San Francisco was still intact on Earth 616 from X-Men's title published a few months after the Transformers cataclysmic event:

(not that it needs to be proven, i just like to be thorough).

http://i.imgur.com/uMEFXTx.jpg?1

Or let's say something like this....from Transformers US #17:

http://i.imgur.com/266hdIn.jpg?1

Soundwave says that the planet Earth (which they intend to conquer) is full of humans that are inferior to the Transformers in every way , and the only force capable of posing a threat to them is Optimus and his team (because it's not like Earth/planet-616 is filled with Superheroes, that are more than capable of handling the Decepticons)

Sure, let's forget about all of the Superheroes that are present on Earth-616.....because you know, the best defense Earth has without Optimus are humans!!!

See where im coming from? (Those are just 2 examples, but i hope you get the point)

Ask yourself this:

Is it a coincidence that no single Transformers issue served as a tie-in to a Marvel event?

Is it a coincidence that no single Transformers character has an official bio in the OHOTMU?

Is it a coincidence that no single character appeared/thing appeared after issue #8 ever again, with no hints/references/anything?

Is it a coincidence that the mainstream cosmic beings of Marvel don't exist in the Transformers multiverse? Believe it or not, this is the basic rule for a reality/multiverse to be outside the mainstream. Like in Quasar #31, the Watcher says that there are Watchers throughout the entire multiverse, but outside the multiverse, no Wacthers exist:

http://i.imgur.com/NgeUBtd.jpg?1

(Just like there are no Watchers in the Transformers reality)

3 handbooks back it up, and that's a basic rule.


---------------------------------------
I told you that there was no doubt in my mind that it's separate, and i stand by that opinion. When one reads Transformers it becomes crystal clear that it's meant to be separate from the mainstream continuity. Im sure you've read enough to realize that.

I hope you can see by now that im simply trying to make sense of this continuity mess. Which after that awful beginning, got ignored and forgotten....as it should be.

----------------------------------------

Btw, i just noticed: My 1st Merlyn scan is from Daredevils #1, not #10 (added the "0" by mistake), just so that nobody gets the wrong info. Your wall-o-texts are amusing, but as I have reiterated: the original intent was crystal clear... The T-U was originally meant to co-exist in mainstream Marvel.

That's why Nick Fury, Joe Robertson, Spider-Man, etc. appeared in the issue:
http://i.imgur.com/2WgWrh8.jpg http://i.imgur.com/urzdS46.jpg http://i.imgur.com/tR25ndD.jpg

That's why a separate canon/mainstream comic was directly cited in the issue:
http://i.imgur.com/FQBP5Zy.jpg

Would you have me believe that this one issue is inextricably non-canon simply because of your dot-connecting? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Granted, the T-U's canonicity to mainstream Marvel may have changed over the years(never said otherwise), but originally it was most certainly intended to be part of the same creation. The evidence is incontrovertible.

Originally posted by operator616
I don't agree.

1) Now, observe how Merlyn (same one who's associated with Captain Britain) appears in a Doctor Who comic which is meant to take place in a separate multiverse:

The Daredevils #10, we know Merlyn has certain aspects through which he acts:
http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?2

Pay close attention this particular aspect:
http://i.imgur.com/UbpCBCh.jpg?3

Now observe, how this same aspect appears in Doctor Who (monthly) Magazine comics. Here are two scans from issue #60:
http://i.imgur.com/JRORN1f.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/m4uEpgC.jpg?1

See? (don't tell me that Merlyn is different from the heroes, because he's not. He shouldn't pop up in a completely separate and totally unrelated continuity).

So another character (who's supposed to be centered in mainstream marvel multiverse), appeared in an entirely separate continuity/multiverse (I have several Doctor Who comics acknowledging other multiverseS, and referencing the omniverse several times).

I also have direct references from Captain Britain and MI13, to certain characters from the Doctor Who multiverse (which should have no relation whatsoever with the mainstream multiverse).

There are more examples. I can post them, if you want.

Originally posted by operator616

^ "Ignore"....Okay, Let's try this the other way around, shall we

There are plenty of things to contradict that it's not on Earth-616, first of all, Transformers UK is outright designated as being Earth-120185 rather than Earth-616 (you can't ignore that either):
http://i.imgur.com/3Bkfy3m.jpg?1

That said...I dunno, let me think of a random contradictory example.....something like Transformers Generation 2 (in Marvel continuity) involving an attack from Decepticons on Earth (told in "Tales of Earth" from issue #4 till #12)

On panel, San Francisco getting utterly obliterated in Transformers Generation 2 #11
http://i.imgur.com/rNF11KT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/guW2KHX.jpg

An entire portion of the Earth gets obliterated:
http://i.imgur.com/qz8n3Sr.jpg?1

....Yet nobody on Earth-616 notices/gets involved/references/gives a damn. seems legit.....better yet:

Confirmation that San Francisco was still intact on Earth 616 from X-Men's title published a few months after the Transformers cataclysmic event:
(not that it needs to be proven, i just like to be thorough).
http://i.imgur.com/uMEFXTx.jpg?1

Or let's say something like this....from Transformers US #17:

http://i.imgur.com/266hdIn.jpg?1
Soundwave says that the planet Earth (which they intend to conquer) is full of humans that are inferior to the Transformers in every way , and the only force capable of posing a threat to them is Optimus and his team (because it's not like Earth/planet-616 is filled with Superheroes, that are more than capable of handling the Decepticons)

Sure, let's forget about all of the Superheroes that are present on Earth-616.....because you know, the best defense Earth has without Optimus are humans!!!

See where im coming from? (Those are just 2 examples, but i hope you get the point
... Nice job, you thoroughly proved your case to be correct.

That aside, Unicron, I think you know but for the innocent onlookers, was Not a multiversal entity.

At best, a gradual universal power. That means, it takes him time to destroy a universe,
instead of thinking a reality out of existence ... he has to physically break shit. (progressively)

Imo, you give Galactus enuff time, and he can take out his universe. (assuming it's as defenseless as Unicron's reality)

Because none of this happened, right?

Originally posted by Galan007
Your wall-o-texts are amusing, but as I have reiterated: the original intent was crystal clear... The T-U was originally meant to co-exist in mainstream Marvel.

That's why Nick Fury, Joe Robertson, Spider-Man, etc. appeared in the issue:
http://i.imgur.com/2WgWrh8.jpg http://i.imgur.com/urzdS46.jpg http://i.imgur.com/tR25ndD.jpg

That's why a separate canon/mainstream comic was directly cited in the issue:
http://i.imgur.com/FQBP5Zy.jpg

Would you have me believe that this one issue is inextricably non-canon simply because of your dot-connecting? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Granted, the T-U's canonicity to mainstream Marvel may have changed over the years(never said otherwise), but originally it was most certainly intended to be part of the same creation. The evidence is incontrovertible.

^^ No need to highlight your side of the story, I saw/read both arguments, opr is right imo and that's it.

You don't see me exclaiming anyone's attention to detail every time they enter a
thread just to thumbs up anyone opposing my point of view, which is constant for certain shoulder chipped individuals.
You should know by now I'm thorough, and I don't enter threads just to agree with who I like,
or disagree with who I don't like, others may practice that b*tch ass behavior, but I don't.

Odd that you just did exactly what you so despise.

But since that is apparently your opinion, please do tell me how I am wrong. I'd love to hear someone tell me exactly how my opinion is incorrect, given the evidence I posted.

Originally posted by Galan007

Odd that you just did exactly what you so despise.
... I simply gave my opinion based on what was posted and what I personally know concerning the subject.

If you want an example or many examples of what I was referring too,
I can oblige thoroughly using a name that's very familiar to you.
Originally posted by Galan007

But since that is apparently your opinion
It is, and you should respect it like I overlook the many times you ... meh, I'll let it go.

I'll return with more info though.

*sighs*... These personal vendettas are just silly.

Anyway, I'm sure you can provide examples similar to those operator has already posted, showing us that the universes were eventually disassociated... Which I never contested, so don't waste your(or my) time with more of the same.

All I have been debating is operator's original claim is that the universes were "always meant to be separate." As the scans I posted(from very early in the series) blatantly tell/show us: the T-U was originally intended to be part of mainstream Marvel. Soon thereafter, the writers probably realized how ridiculous this was, and gave the Transformers their own separate multiverse accordingly. Initially, however, they were one in the same... Which has been my only point.

Feel me?

Is that some special upgraded version of Apoc that rides a unicorn?

Originally posted by Galan007
Your wall-o-texts are amusing, but as I have reiterated: the original intent was crystal clear... The T-U was originally meant to co-exist in mainstream Marvel.

That's why Nick Fury, Joe Robertson, Spider-Man, etc. appeared in the issue:
That's why a separate canon/mainstream comic was directly cited in the issue:

Would you have me believe that this one issue is inextricably non-canon simply because of your dot-connecting? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Granted, the T-U's canonicity to mainstream Marvel may have changed over the years(never said otherwise), but originally it was most certainly intended to be part of the same creation. The evidence is incontrovertible.

Posting the same scene for the 3rd time isn't adding anything new to the discussion. While my "long texts", do. Sorry if you don't like reading long posts, but i gotta explain my point in detail.

You were saying to me that i can't ignore what you posted. I responded with examples which you can't ignore either. You're taking one or two instances (well, there are a few more if we take into account other titles which are meant to take place in the same universe as the Transformers) and basing your opinion on it. While i am taking into consideration the entire history of Transformers.

If by "originally" you mean the first 8 issues or so, then yeah, i can agree with that. But that's as far as you can go with it.

Because from what i understood, you directly challenged me when you said "on panel trumps bios". Because that bio was from 2006, yet when i returned with on-panel examples pre-2006, you said that you were only arguing about "the original intend"; so i hope you see why i got confused here regarding your stance.

Originally posted by Mr Master
... Nice job, you thoroughly proved your case to be correct.


Thanks.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That aside, Unicron, I think you know but for the innocent onlookers, was Not a multiversal entity.

At best, a gradual universal power. That means, it takes him time to destroy a universe,
instead of thinking a reality out of existence ... he has to physically break shit. (progressively)

Imo, you give Galactus enuff time, and he can take out his universe. (assuming it's as defenseless as Unicron's reality)

Well, there's that one bio which suggests he's multiversal. But purely on panel, id have a hard time putting him in the universal range (i wasn't impressed with him at all). Although, tbf, the page also specified that "the stuff of space itself...destroyed":

http://i.imgur.com/tZvXfKj.jpg?1

That's more impressive than merely destroying all planets/galaxies in a universe, imo.

Actually, in a recent Thor Annual, Galactus was destroying the whole multiverse as a side effect of his battle with Scrier and The Other (the context of the story heavily alluded to it being multiversal). So there's no doubt about that, imo (that's also not to mention that he already has multiple universal showings, as you know).

Originally posted by operator616
If by "originally" you mean the first 8 issues or so, then yeah, i can agree with that. This is all I was ever arguing, hence my constant use of the word "original." I even reiterated my stance above when Mr M randomly chimed in:
Originally posted by Galan007
*sighs*... These personal vendettas are just silly.

Anyway, I'm sure you can provide examples similar to those operator has already posted, showing us that the universes were eventually disassociated... Which I never contested, so don't waste your(or my) time with more of the same.

All I have been debating is operator's original claim is that the universes were "always meant to be separate." As the scans I posted(from very early in the series) blatantly tell/show us: the T-U was originally intended to be part of mainstream Marvel. Soon thereafter, the writers probably realized how ridiculous this was, and gave the Transformers their own separate multiverse accordingly. Initially, however, they were one in the same... Which has been my only point.

Feel me?

Take a deep breath.

It's actually quite common for Mr M to participate in threads involving Marvel cosmic beings, nothing random about it.
There was also nothing random about my chiming. I think I already expressed I don't practice that.
Goodness, isn't it easier just to say, I reiterated myself in respose to Mr M?
Why does the extra unnecessary comment that can only give rise to
animosity always have to be thrown in? Actually forget that, I almost forgot.

Anyway, notice I didn't reply/drag the debate elsewhere/further when I realized
the opinion was based on the first few issues, which anyone not knowing more
would think it was situated in 616, or at the very least within the prime multiverse.
That aside, those first few stories were officially retconned (letters page in TU#64)
as never having had 616 cats like Spidey. They said, something akin to: 'pretend it never happened.'

I was actually agreeing with opr how the Spidey scene didn't make sense, not that it never happened,
I only found out that specific update yesterday.

Geeze, stop being so insecure. There was nothing wrong with you chiming in, but you did chime in nonetheless. I welcomed it, however, because it gave me a chance to reiterate my opinion. This is a comic book discussion board, after all... Chiming in and reiteration is what we do.

...Also, there's no letters pages in issue #64(in my rip, at least)--but I have every Transformers comic in existence, so if you find out the correct issue, let me know. Even assuming that statement was made, letters pages cannot 'officially retcon' an event any more than Handbooks, marvunapp, or weberviews can. Certainly letters pages can help solidify facts we already know to be true, but they cannot alter continuity all together.

I have Transformers US #64, and i didn't see any letters page, and i doubt id missed that anyway (there's only those profiles at the end of the issue).

Not that it matters, because as i said before, there are a few other instances of such stupidity even in the Transformers universe. Like Shang Chi (a mainstream character) appearing in Action Force (i already cited the example in my previous post):

http://i.imgur.com/zUG8pPQ.jpg

.....despite the fact that Action force directly encountered the Transformers several issues later (which was a continuation of a previous plot)

http://i.imgur.com/IVgYdbl.jpg

You can recognize Airtight, Bazooka, Barbecue, Flint and Scarlet (posting it for confirmation).

And we know for sure that the Transformers UK is separate from mainstream; not only due to the contradictory examples, but also because of things like Death's Head encounter with them (who was confirmed to have jumped to another universe). Same series makes it pretty clear that the Action Force exists in that same universe.

Just another instance of nonsense.

....But i think we all know that the case for Transformers being separate from mainstream Marvel is far stronger (which is what my point is, in this entire discussion) No doubt about it.

Originally posted by Mr Master

would think it was situated in 616, or at the very least within the prime multiverse.


So you agree that Transformers is outside the prime/mainstream multiverse? If so, (based on our previous discussion) why do you disagree that it's a separate multiverse (as opposed to being merely a universe) considering that we saw alternate realities?

Are you still arguing with me, operator? mmm

If so, I already made my point clear(you even agreed with it.)

^ Read my post carefully, because im not. I wasn't even addressing your post.

Im simply saying that even though the Spidey affair was "retconned", there are other instances of stupidity.

Originally posted by SamZED
Is that some special upgraded version of Apoc that rides a unicorn?

Yes. And he brings presents to all the good little boys and girls that eat their vegetables. Now go to bed, it's past your bedtime.

Originally posted by operator616
^ Read my post carefully, because im not. I wasn't even addressing your post.

Im simply saying that even though the Spidey affair was "retconned", there are other instances of stupidity. Oh okay, I see what you're saying now.

...Although I still don't believe anything was officially/directly retconned. I think the writers did something dumb, realized their folly, and opted to move on and act like none of the Marvel-specific references had ever happened. However, I suppose the T-U(UK) later being given a numerical designation in the OHOTMU entry of Death's Head might qualify as a retcon of sorts:
http://imgur.com/Ru98Aba
(I think you posted something similar earlier.)


But aside from the 'stupidity' you mentioned, there's also Circuit Breaker(a Transformers character) being directly shown/referenced in SW II #3:
http://imgur.com/IvnttdJ
With an editor's note at the bottom of the page stating: "For more on Circuit Breaker, see Transformers #9--Bob"

We also have the Savage Land being directly shown/referenced in Transformers #4:
http://imgur.com/WQkpzE6
With an editor's note at the bottom of the page stating: "Long-time Marvel readers will recognize this place as the Savage Land, prehistoric domain of the present-day Ka-Zar!"

So yeah, not only did the T-U reference mainstream Marvel, but mainstream Marvel also referenced the T-U. They were definitely meant to be canon to one another originally.

^ That's why i said 1 or 2 instances (i added that other titles such as Action Force has others)". We even see at the begginning of Transformers #8 ( i even specified issue #8 in my previous posts), say: This story precedes Avengers #257:

http://i.imgur.com/Uba2gLI.jpg

That time period was dealing with the Savage Land, that's how Avengers #258 opens:

http://i.imgur.com/oxiTrS1.jpg


Also, regarding Circuit Breaker, that much is understandable, considering the instance is associated with the Beyonder (i even brought up that instance a few weeks ago, btw)....not that it matters.

Again, not debating with you. Just didn't want anyone to think my stance was based on a single showing.

^ Again, neither am i. Simply adding info, is all.

I never intended to say that you were using a single showing, in fact i clearly said that it's one or two (in the sense that they are few as opposed to the on panel examples that show Transformers being a separate continuity). And i even added that other titles have such instances, in that same post (and later posted the proof for it).

I never insinuated that you stated such. I simply added the aforementioned info for any onlookers who might skim through this thread in the future.

Relax.

Didn't comic Unicron destroy all of creation in the transformers universe ?

Yes, but there are a few things to keep in mind...
Originally posted by Galan007

http://imgur.com/sBjzOoz
http://imgur.com/ZzY2zjs
http://imgur.com/NJppj0I

But to be fair...
a.) We can't really say how long it took him to accomplish that feat. Based on the *other* retelling, it certainly wasn't instantaneous.
b.) He wasn't overly thorough when he consumed said creation, as fragments of the old realmS(plural) still existed in the wake of his frenzy--this is how the second Transformers-verse was ultimately created.

Cheers galan

Originally posted by Galan007

There was nothing wrong with you chiming in, but you did chime in nonetheless. I welcomed it, however, because it gave me a chance to reiterate my opinion. This is a comic book discussion board, after all... Chiming in and reiteration is what we do.
Chiming is ok, "Randomly" though? Neh-eh.
(because people shouldn't be posting without a conscious decision)

.. but anyway, I'm stoned right now so let's have a coconut smile and move forward.
Originally posted by Galan007

...Also, there's no letters pages in issue #64(in my rip, at least)--
Originally posted by operator616

I have Transformers US #64, and i didn't see any letters page, and i doubt id missed that anyway (there's only those profiles at the end of the issue).
Sorry friends, but yall are gonna have ta buy the real thing to see it.

My rip didn't have it either, I then downloaded several copies of the issue,
and I finally found the Letters Page. The only problem is, the only copy I
found with it, was printed in Spanish lol.

But the English version is real and it's out there:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Deadly_Obsession ... (under "notes"

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/circuitb.htm ... (2nd paragraph in the "Comments" section)

http://www.allspark.com/forums/topic/83287-tf-wiki-thread-20/page-25 ... (bottom of page)

You boys may possibly be able to find this Letters Page in Transformers #289 (a Re-Print of #64)
Although, I'm not sure Marvel re-prints the Letters Page.

Also, I luvs Marvunapp many times. They broke down T-Universe meticulously. (regarding wtfs concerning canonicity)
Originally posted by operator616

So you agree that Transformers is outside the prime/mainstream multiverse? If so, (based on our previous discussion) why do you disagree that it's a separate multiverse (as opposed to being merely a universe) considering that we saw alternate realities?
The collective info posted (prior/current) has reasonably made me lean towards an understanding.
I do have one question though. These alternate realities, do they refer to the Future only?

Or are there different versions of the main T-Universe characters,
different as in Alternate, not simply a diverged history of the original like some What IF?

Originally posted by Mr Master
buy Did you just say the 'b' word?

Phuck. That. none

Originally posted by Mr Master

The collective info posted (prior/current) has reasonably made me lean towards an understanding.
I do have one question though. These alternate realities, do they refer to the Future only?

Or are there different versions of the main T-Universe characters,
different as in Alternate, not simply a diverged history of the original like some What IF?

Future, mostly (there are many of those). But what does it matter? It's an alternate future reality. A parallel dimension (as mentioned in the scans). Also, the bios mention countless alternate realities, so...

Nothing in Transformers UK #289, though.

Originally posted by Galan007

Did you just say the 'b' word?

Phuck. That. none
... I know, that was almost sacrilege. Well, I wanna read it in English, so I hope opr finds it.
Originally posted by operator616

Future, mostly (there are many of those). But what does it matter? It's an alternate future reality. A parallel dimension (as mentioned in the scans). Also, the bios mention countless alternate realities, so...
I'm not disputing them being universes, it's just that if they're only "Futures"
then this multiverse only has diverged realities, and these realities spring up
according to occurrences in the prime TU. I'm figuring that is.

I just wanted to see if there was a difference.
Originally posted by operator616

Nothing in Transformers UK #289, though.
Well, I didn't think it would be. You're gonna have to order the tpb, cause my
copies are missing the letters page except for my spanish print.
But you noticed the links I posted so it's does exist.

It just strikes me as odd that in this day and age a statement of that magnitude(even though it really doesn't mean much in the official scheme of things) has never been digitized and posted online. I've seen plenty of people reference it, but haven't found a single person that has posted a pic/scan of the quote itself(despite claiming to own the issue.)

Not saying it doesn't exist... I just find that extremely strange.

Originally posted by Mr Master
the only copy I
found with it, was printed in Spanish lol.

wtf is the deal with everything being in spanish all of a sudden? used to be no prob getting individual issues. now, you gotta rip entire series' to get a single book or it's in spanish. not coolz i tell ya....

Ill try and get the trade (i most likely will)...no promises though.

When and if i do, ill bump the thread (which wouldn't be anytime soon).

If you plan on spending money on the actual TPB just to acquire an irrelevant letters page(I say 'irrelevant' because the statement in question wouldn't tell us anything we don't already know), please read this post from a member of the Transformers forum...


It sounds like the TPBs do not include the letters pages, so you'd likely have to purchase the single issue. And those guys are about as geeky as it gets where the T-U is concerned, so I'd take their word for it. /shrug

Originally posted by leonidas
wtf is the deal with everything being in spanish all of a sudden? used to be no prob getting individual issues. now, you gotta rip entire series' to get a single book or it's in spanish. not coolz i tell ya.... Most of the time I end up wanting to read the whole series anyway, so I don't mind DL'ing an entire run... I haven't had much of an issue with foreign stuff, though. mmm

These days my biggest goal is to replace some of my favorite c2c/scanned comics, with new webripped/digital versions. Even though many notable series' have been webripped, there are some that probably never will be . Just in case you're unfamiliar, the quality difference is truly amazing...

As an example, compare this old/original scene from SW II:
http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/17881056_Secret_Wars_II_006-20.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/17881057_Secret_Wars_II_006-21.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/17881058_Secret_Wars_II_006-22.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/17881059_Secret_Wars_II_006-23.jpg

With this new/webripped version:
http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/17881034_20.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/17881052_21.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/17881053_22.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/17881054_23.jpg

Night and day.

Originally posted by Galan007
If you plan on spending money on the actual TPB just to acquire an irrelevant letters page(I say 'irrelevant' because the statement in question wouldn't tell us anything we don't already know), please read this post from a member of the Transformers forum...


It sounds like the TPBs do not include the letters pages, so you'd likely have to purchase the single issue. And those guys are about as geeky as it gets where the T-U is concerned, so I'd take their word for it. /shrug

Well, i order some books from time to time anyways (which is why i said, it's not gonna be soon) through Amazon.

I don't see where it says that TBPs don't have letter pages.....if they don't, then what does?

Originally posted by operator616
Well, i order some books from time to time anyways (which is why i said, it's not gonna be soon) through Amazon.

I don't see where it says that TBPs don't have letter pages.....if they don't, then what does? "Aside from #74-80, all the Marvel Transformers issues I own are in TPB format. I don't miss the ads, but letters pages could be fun to have. Oh well. "

To me that implies that the TPBs don't have letters pages. You'd likely have to purchase the original single issue if you want the letters page.

^^ opr may be referring to 'mass market paperback' (single issues) and using the term tpb.
I myself use the term interchangeably although literally I know it's a collection of stories in one book.
Originally posted by leonidas

wtf is the deal with everything being in spanish all of a sudden? used to be no prob getting individual issues. now, you gotta rip entire series' to get a single book or it's in spanish. not coolz i tell ya....


I guess the only ok thingy about it is that the dialogue is identical:

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/17886140_ID1.jpg
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/17886143_ID2.jpg

... freakin headache to read though. (my latin spit isn't too good)

-------------------------

Also, @Galan & opr, here's the Letters Page at the end of this issue: (Transformers US #80)

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/17886149_ID4.jpg

... bummer, I noticed this spanish-version download tricked me labelling it as issues #64-68,
when in fact, it's issues #77-80.
All four issues had Letter Pages, one of them had 3 pages the others 2 each.

Well, Marvunapp stated they have expressed across their letter pages that the TU is not in/part of the MU,
and it's true, because in that letter page above it states that.
(right above the center image and right below the center image)
They said it would be too much of a hassle for editors to sort out. (I think that's what it says lol)

It's the best I could do friends. ... meh, we have proof they exist at-least.
Unfortunately whoever circulated that download, (english) took out the letter pages. (which would seem daunting imo)
I mean how much space did he think he was saving lol.

When opr gets the actual issue and scans it for us, we'll have the real deal, (#64)
and not that it will officially prove anything, but it would be nice just to see it with our own eyes.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ opr may be referring to 'mass market paperback' (single issues) and using the term tpb.
I myself use the term interchangeably although literally I know it's a collection of stories in one book. Yeah, I could see that.

Got the book, didn't result in anything. There was no letters page at the end of issue #64, there was only an Editor's note at the end discussing some elements of the plot, nothing relevant regarding the Spiderman instance.

Im starting to doubt its existence, although, it doesn't matter much if you ask me. Im positively certain that Transformers-verse is dissociated from the mainstream Marvel (that much is evident throughout the Transformers comics).