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Oww, that's going to leave a mark...

I'll give it to Luke, but damn he's going to take some punches

Luke

Does anyone know what Tulak looks like?

Ugly, if memory serves me correct.

Any Pics?

No clue on that one, but he was likely red as a tomato like all the other true blooded Sith. He was the only Sith lord buried on Korriban to be lord after the discovery of lightsabers.

And to be bloody honest, he was never defeated. Luke, however much he is badass, doesn't have that record. And his competition is much less. While I respect NJO Luke for being an ideal Jedi who can whup ass and take names, he bites the sizzling edge of a saber in this one.

Dude, no he doesn't. If they were to fight Luke would win. Fact is, the force works to destroy evil, and Hord is evil. Take the most powerful Jedi ever and make them fight and Luke will win. But it would probably be like Obi-Wan style. He would have to be extremely resourceful as opposed to just overpowering him.
It's kinda like he inherited that from Obi-Wan...

We're not talking about the will of the Force here, dude. We're talking about winning a fight that would never happen anyways. And the facts support Tulak, not Luke.

The fact is Luke is connected to the force more than anyone save for Anakin or Leia, he can draw more power from it and smite some evil hookers

How the hell do you figure that? Anakin was defeated wasn't he? A connetion to the force means nothing if you face superior opponents...

Luke would die here, Tulak didn't become the best duelist ever in a time when many of them were walking around without a damn good reason.

anakin was defeated because he fought with rage and was not level headed
Luke has the mentality of say Yoda or Obi-Wan, but the talent that Anakin had, no one can stop NJO Luke

Tobad he doesn't have the experience... And Tulak had to be very calm in a fight because he always won. He had skills

tulak gets manhandled

earlier Janus said we weren't talking about the will of the force, when a skywalker is there, we're always talking about the will of the force

By throwing around the will of the Force, you're trying to use a blatant plot device. In a theoretical fight, blatant plot devices shouldn't be relevant.

Indeed besides who says the will of the force would want Luke to win? Maybe the force fell in love with Tulak

in a fight of an EU character vs. a movie character every aspect of the movie or EU should be considered

You're right, but this isn't a skill, ability, or attribute of Luke's. The will of the Force is a story bit and isn't relevant since this isn't a fight that will occur in the story.

Okay... So he's liked by the force that doesn't make him all powerful and unless the force actually tells him. "I like you." i'm not inclinded to believe that. Luke wasn't all powerful and he didn't have the experience fighting against Jedi and Sith that Tulak did.

I'm not saying he can't win, i'm saying he is going to have an incredibly hard time and i don't think he will win. Tulak was incredibly good, never lost. Never even got hit. I don't care how good Luke is, he's not going to stand a chance against somebody who has fought countless of Jedi and Sith his entire life.

Well, IMHO Luke was all powerful. Like I said, Anakin v.2.badass

Yeah well I havn't seen anything that would convince me of that, so i'm just going to assume that in a duel he's going to lose... He can win but he needs to throw every force technique he has at Tulak hope that they can't be blocked

Luke might be more powerful, but it doesn't make him the best with a lightsaber. Yoda was more powerful than Mace, wasn't he? Yet he wasn't the best duelist. Mace, at the very least, stalemated what Yoda could not.

Of course, it can be argued that Yoda was not as martially focused as Mace yadda yadda yadda.

well, jar jar survived the fight between federation and gungans just cuz he had to be in EP2. that doesnt make him stronger then other gungans...

Tulak would win, the prophecy sucks, luke never had to face opponents who could even come close to Hord

Exactly...

All you have to do to beat Luke as a great duelist is get close... That way Luke won't have the time to do a force attack and you can kill him. And you are not going to tell me that luke will start using force attacks at everybody that attacks him immediately. If Luke see's an opening he can win but as soon as Tulak gets near Luke is just screwed... Maybe he is more powerful in the force but when Luke would want to do a Force attack Tulak would slice him.

luke pwns tulak,he is anakin badass v.2

dude, all ur posts are like this: "**** pwns ***."

give us some reasons, back up ur oppinion, otherwise, its a waist of every1s time.

there isn't actually much for me to say here Luke is great Jedi and NJO Luke is pure bada$$ an marka is some frickin guy with ****1n horns,,,and u think he wuld smite luke oh c'mon luke wuld PWN ragnos

exactly, all u say is bullshit. u cant give any good reasons cuz there are none. u just take the guy u think is cooler and vote for him. then u say *** is pure badass he would win, other guy sux.
well, just to mention, ragnos was the most powerfull sith lord ever...proven fact, by previous posts. now if u cant read, thats not my problem

???????????????
i didn't know u had enough knowledge to declare some1 most powerfull,,and since this began with movies it is logical that Anakin(rots)is most powerfull Force user
even GL said that so shut the fu ck up!
(and since luke is his son and ani died luke is the best)

I would like to hear where everyone gets all these "Tulak is the best" theorys, the only thing I've ever heard about him is that he was a great duelist in a time of great duelists by kreia. It wouldn't be at all surprising if she just said that to try and get you to train more, that's probably not the case but there's still little proof I have seen of his "greatness."

So if anyone can tell me some of his accomplishments and where they got that knowledge from it would be great. I mean, no one here even knows what he looks like, how he fought, if he ever used Force powers or anything like that.

Oh and Naga just said here that its a fact that Marka is the strongest Sith ever. ha ha ha, my ass. Prove it.

Kun, you are talking BS.... GL said Anakin had the potential to be the greatest Force user of all time, or perhaps of his time, whichever the wording.... he has yet to say Anakin OR Luke is so badass with the Force itself that they will manifest the power and/or ability to beat any EU character ever created, any movie character, and any of the two that are to be made in the future.

I mean, come on... what if GL takes a shine to Sith A and makes him better than Anakin? Does that still make Anakin god? No...

Revan33, GL tells you that Anakin might possibly be born of the Force and that he has enough Force potential to fuel a solar system, etc. etc. And you believe him without a doubt. We hear from a credible (If non-GL source) in EU, that Tulak Hord was beyond amazing, and you doubt it?

And since when do we have to even know what he looks like? Does hsi credibility hinge on his looks? Does anyone here know what Darth Plagiues looks like? As for how he fought, that would be excellent to know, I can see your point there. But he wasn't ever beaten in a time when the average duellist could put Yoda or Anakin on the floor. If he didn't use Force powers he'd be dead and fast. You don't be a non-Force using entity and survive countless duels.

Marka is, with all we know of all the Sith lords, the strongest ever. Why? Think of who he was... A half-breed (Already something that would hold him back) who overcame his heritage, dominated a planet of Sith for a century, and even while on his deathbed, was not challenged by Naga Sadow, who could CHUCK STARS, for the love of god. If you need more than that, I could try and find someminiscule data to salve your problems... but ah.... nevermind. Not gonna repeat what's been echoed in a thousand threads.

And my last point is... GL has yet to refute the idea set forth in EU by Bioware and Obsidian that, as Kreia said and others, the ancient Sith lords and Jedi were amazing duellists that make others seem like children playing with toys. Until he refutes this idea directly, it is part of EU and thus a valid point in these versus threads.

My point was he can't PROVE that Marka is the strongest Sith ever, it's not a fact like he said.

Back on subject, you guys give way too much credit to one statement. A Jedi master who thinks Sion can't be defeated says that some Sith who lived 1,000 years before she did was a great duelist in a time of great duelists. So how did he fight? What weapon did he use? Did he ever use Force Powers? Who all did he fight? How strong were they?

If Kreia had said he wasn't a great Sith Lord instead in that dialogue and every other thing about Tulak was left normal (nothing really) he would have been a pansy assed weakling who would lose to his mom on here. Oh and its not like Kreia never lied, and just because people say things doesn't necessarily make them 100% valid. Yoda says once you start on the dark path, it will forever dominate your destiny but that's sure wrong.

Now let's say it was all true and she somehow knew all about a Sith from 1,000 years prior. She said the ancient Sith lords and Jedi were amazing duellists that make others seem like children playing with toys or something like that. How strong was the Exile at that time? Depends on which planet you go to first so let's say he/she even went to Korriban last and heard that. Now assuming again that Kreia didn't say that just to try and get you to train more, she was comparing them to the Exile who killed Jedi Masters easily. The Exile got far stronger after that (just look at how easily Kreia defeats him/her and then it gets turned around at the end) so his power rose immensely. Now the Exile was not the strongest being ever, Darth Revan, NJO Luke, and Yoda are generally and easily considered much stronger. So they would be pretty good against these "amazing duelists" that one person called them.

One statement is just not enough to carry an argument usually.

You are looking at it from a certain point of view. You believe that Kreia's intent was to lie and persuade the Exile to become stronger. But the strength of the Exile isn't a factor- the planet can be visited and the statement enacted at any given time. If it was in relevance to the Exile's own strength, it would not be so. Also, Kreia says "We are like children playing with lightsabers compared to the masters of old." She is refering to hers and the Exile's era.

Now, did Kreia lie? Yes. Was Kreia in a position to know more about Tulak Hord than anyone else in EU? Yes. Was Kreia a historian who spent time on Malachor V pouring over the archives, a place where Sith lords often went to centre themselves? Yes. Is it possible, even highly probable that extensive or even basic knowledge of Tulak Hord was available at Malachor V, as it was on Korriban itself? Yes. Does Kreia have a clear motive to embellish the prowess of an ancient Sith Lord? No. Why?

Kreia is not one to hide her prejudices. She does not hide her digust when she talks of Form III, she does not spare the whip when it comes to underlings, and she does not mince words when you commit acts of true good or evil. Also, in her scheming, Kreia's ambitions are subtle machinations that would make such a lie quite simply beneath her. She needs no motivation with the memory of an ancient Sith lord to spur the Exile further into his potential greatnest. He knows he will fight three Sith Lords before he is done. Possibly even three Jedi masters on top of that. What kind of motivation would he need? "Hey, Babe Ruth has a better home run record than anyone playing ball today." And this fictional statement being said to a ballplayer who must get a three million dollar contract or have his mother die of sickness. Unneccesary fiction, and thus I believe that it was not Kreia's intent to mislead but to educate. And I take her word as truth.... for now.

Fact does remain however that Tulak Hord is only heard about in Kotor Games, i trust Kreia on this. But it would be really great for another source on Tulak, something more. Something I will think will probably come in Kotor III

I am pretty convinced that I still do not know who would win...
I mean, Tulak sounds like the better duelist, but from what I have read in NJO, Luke seems to be more powerful (Force-wise)

http://thunder.prohosting.com/~spiff/Lords.html


go here and read about Ragnos Kun-ni. And dont misinterprete it wrong, just as u do in all my posts, and almost all other posts.

there will also be some info on Tulak there, but its pretty much same as Kreia said about him...

i know that site found it months ago still it doesnt changes my opinion

Maybe a functioning logical brain would.

lol,,actually u shuld get one

You must be kidding.

no,,i still think luke can beaat pretty much every1

And your logic? Oh wait... you came to the reasoning table unprepared. GUess you had best waddle back over to the little kids' table where Superman can do anything and Anakin/Luke/Sidious/Yoda is all powerful.

yes,,continue with ur "logical" thinking where marka is all powerfull

I don't see how his logic is any less valid than yours.

Not all powerful. But damn deadly.

Here, something for your troubles, kid...

If you read the tales of the Jedi comics it says he throws stars.

When I was reading about Naga Sadow on the official timeline, it says that Naga caused the stars to go supernova (or detonated them) but he never threw stars. So I have to question the truth of the matter since I haven't found any other official source to contradict it.

He ripped out the cores of stars and threw them at people causing it to bolw up.

Who is Tulak Hord

He's the secret prime minister of Brazil and a Sith.

Like Saddam was of Canada before he was arrested.

info is sketchy at best.

He is known as the greatest lightsaber duelist of all time.

Dark Lord of the Sith. Very little is known of Tulak Hord, only that this tomb is located in the Valley of the Dark Lords on Korriban. His tomb is guarded by a pack of tuk'ata beasts.

If there was no force involved you would have to give it up to the hord....but lucky fer Luke the force is involved and he is a natural born SITHKILLER......He been to the darkside and back he knows the extent of its power and knows how to defeat it using the sunny side of the force....Now lets all have drink and toast to Luke....or we could just bring in Smoker4 and have him pass one around....lol...

Gah.... for the last time, the Force is ALWAYS involved in saber battles. And even Lucas has stated that the way to settle battles between powerful Force users is by the lightsaber. Hence why Yoda didn't Force pwn Dooku, but instead fought him. Hence why Vader didn't Force freeze his son and take him to the Emperor.

correct me if i'm wrong but i think lucas said somewhere that NJO luke was the most powerful force user ever. that is if anikin didn't get all of his lims cut off and fell into lava. if you're talkin just lightsaber skill tulak owns luke but if you're talking about everything that could happen i'd say luke not by much but barely

I'm so glad you listened.

SW is not a video game. You can't right click Force Push/Thunder/Spank/Manhandle eight times because NJO Luke has more Force Points and he wins the battle. Anakin prelavabath was NOT the best duellist ever. He had amazing Force potential, but NO training and skill to match with Tulak Hord. NJO Luke has more than Anakin, but he can't hang with Hord. Why? You're forgetting something very obvious and important: Hord lived in an age of Sith and Jedi who could contend with NJO Luke one on one fairly well. He slaughtered all who came before him- whether they were superior to him in Force powers (Which is not likely since he was a true Sith or at least a half blood) or even really good with a blade. I mean, think about that. The Force may give a slight circumstantial advantage in combat, like moving a chair beneath an opponent, or showering them with rocks... but you can't up and pwn the hell out of other strong Force users. If you could, we would have like three saber fights the entire series, if that. And I would assume that Hord could use the Force ti compliment his saber style well since he defeated all comers. He was never slain in combat.

And you're wrong, GL never said NJO LUke was the strongest ever.

One person's opinion on someone from 1,000 years ago or more that no one has never heard of is stronger than NJO Luke? Not to me. Kreia lies a lot and uses deceit, why would she make the Exile strong just to say, you are weak compared to him? To make the Exile want to get stronger. And you are assuming again Janus, she specifically mentioned lightsaber combat, nothing about his Force power. She never said he defeated all others, she said he was known as the greatest duelist of his time.

Well there is a problem with what your say Revan33. He can't have been from a thousand years ago because Tulak was the greatest known lduelist alive, or at anytime before that. He used LIGHTSABERS. These LIGHTSABERS were not used a thousand years ago because the Sith didn't know about them. The Sith used swords. Technology in OUR society takes about 50-100 years to intergrate itself into mainstream use, from the point of original discovery. THe average is about 80 years. Before the Sith atacked the Republic, they used their Sith Swords. So this means that Sith probably didn't start really using lightsabers until about 80 years after the time of Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh, and Marka Ragnos among others. (Also, as a random side note, does anyone know when Freedon Nadd was around?) And I know I don't need to go into throwing stars again.

Well, it still rounds off to pretty close to a millenia. Kreia does refer to them as ancient. Man, an ancient hag talking about an ancient person.

Hey, you never no, she make have trained him too.

Originally posted by Darth_Janus


And you're wrong, GL never said NJO LUke was the strongest ever.

ok thx for clearin tha up for me

I would say Luke

No problem. I make all clear... Oh yeah... I rule...

Ahem... anyways, back to me.

Chronology goes like this...

Nadd- 400 years before Kun.

Uh huh?

Originally posted by Darth Revan33
Well, it still rounds off to pretty close to a millenia. Kreia does refer to them as ancient. Man, an ancient hag talking about an ancient person.

You are assuming just as much...

There is just no reason to assume Kreia would be lying, and yes he is the greatest duelist of all time, meaning he faced powerful and possibly almost impossible to beat opponents in battle and still won, otherwise he wouldn't have been the greatest. Pretty easy to figure out really. Tulak Hord was great and amazing

Luke Skywalker would destroy Tulak Hord in the heart beat. And all u Tulak Hord fans know it...don't kid ur self

I think Luke would win, but it wouldn't be an easy fight.

Originally posted by Darth Plagues
Luke Skywalker would destroy Tulak Hord in the heart beat. And all u Tulak Hord fans know it...don't kid ur self

You're a presumptuous, blithering, babbling fool whose poorly thought-out response wasn't worth the electrons to make the text nor the hours of labor that some kid in China went through to make your keyboard so you could smother us with your overall lack of reasoning skills.

In short, your argument couldn't convince Luke himself that he would win 'in a heartbeat'. Here's your sign:

lmao

But Tulak still hasn't done anything!

Nah, just kiddin. I've put in enough stuff here.