Evangel's Amalgam Tournament: Battle 3, guatam vs Khellendros (Vote Now!)

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



Evangel94
This battle will take place in barren desert with little water and no moisture. The battlefield is indestructible.

Contestants will post their own strategies.

Vote Now!

Scoobless
don't think the air/moisture issue will be a factor for either of these guys

Khellendros
What kind of desert? Sand, rock? If you don't reply in ten minutes, I'm going to assume its not a sand-covered desert.

DigiMark007
"Barren" would imply nothing but I think that lots of sand is usually assumed when talking about a desert.

-DM

Khellendros
Originally posted by DigiMark007
"Barren" would imply nothing but I think that lots of sand is usually assumed when talking about a desert.

-DM
Barren tells me nothing but rock/soil, too, but I wanted to at least ask first.

Dizzle
Since both of you can fly and all, does it really matter? I'd say sand desert though, since that would be the steryotype of a desert. (hell, some people consider Antarctica a desert...) If you have some kind of magical plan involving lots of sand, all the more power to you.

Khellendros
Originally posted by Dizzle
Since both of you can fly and all, does it really matter? I'd say sand desert though, since that would be the steryotype of a desert. (hell, some people consider Antarctica a desert...) If you have some kind of magical plan involving lots of sand, all the more power to you.
It matters to me, and since the ten minutes is up, I'm gonna go run off and put the finishing touches on my opening strategy.

Khellendros
Since he has knowledge of the names of the component characters he is about to face, one can assume Blackstrom will know that Gladiator is likely a very powerful fighter, Juggernaut is, well, a Juggernaut and Dr. Fate likely deals in magic. Since he has full use of his powers (see my character history posted in the review and confirmation thread), Blackstrom only takes five minutes of prep, drawing in electron power to increase his strength by ten times it usual level as well as his increasing speed and reaction time. As the soon as the fight begins, Blackstrom surrounds himself in a forcefied while sapping Dr. Cain's kinetic energy, making it nearly impossible to move. Flying in at top speed, he goes immediately for the helmet, tearing it off and the skullcap with it. Once the helmet is off and Blackstrom is up close, he can scream at point blank range, when a whisper or spoken word have been enough to knock Gladiator and Hulk out. Or he can lash out with his electron powers, disrupting Dr. Cain's synapses the same way Nimrod has taken Juggernaut down before. He can also temporarily soften the indestructible landscape with his matter manipulation powers and shove Dr. Kallark down into solid, indestructible rock and let it harden. Any of these would be performed at speedblitz velocities, against an opponent whose human brain can only think at a fraction of the speed Gladiator's power grants the body.

K Von Doom
Originally posted by Khellendros
Since he has knowledge of the names of the component characters he is about to face, one can assume Blackstrom will know that Gladiator is likely a very powerful fighter, Juggernaut is, well, a Juggernaut and Dr. Fate likely deals in magic.

How would someone come to the conclusion that a character called "Dr Fate" deals in magic? confused

Khellendros
What, are you gonna name a flying brick Dr. Fate? I don't think so. It's either magic or precognition. And if it was precognition he'd find out pretty damn quick that that was the case if his opponent knew every move he was going to make.

long pig
What are the rules of us watching???
Can I talk?
Or should I just let them fight?

Khellendros
Originally posted by long pig
What are the rules of us watching???
Can I talk?
Or should I just let them fight?
Do you really think Evangel will answer you? Did she ever answer when you PMed her about Supreme?

long pig
I was kinda asking you and the rest.

She got back to me on the supreme thing, she said for me to basically prove it.

It's cool though, I was just freaked I had to fight Rob's version of supreme.

-edit-

leonidas
<<What are the rules of us watching???
Can I talk?
Or should I just let them fight?>>

i was wondering the same thing. maybe we can chime in after a certain amount of time? i don't think it's right that outsiders interfere in what should be a debate between contestants, but i think i already bungled that in the first battle by giving too many of my own two cents. so, what IS the deal with outside opinions in these battles?

long pig
I think it's my personality, I already countered everything he said 20 times in my own mind and i wanna say it but.....dammit.
I did say it and i edited it cuz it'd be unfair.

gautam
k...i have a small question....can one stop juggernaut by taking away his kinetic energy...cause i thought that once he started to move in one way....he could not be moved

DigiMark007
Originally posted by gautam
k...i have a small question....can one stop juggernaut by taking away his kinetic energy...cause i thought that once he started to move in one way....he could not be moved

Not a clue, but if I were you I'd start debating it like there's no way in hell that he could (among other things).

-DM

P.S. ...my take on longpig's question...I think that points of clarification or small questions, and then brief reasons why we voted for someone are ok. But in general, we should probably leave the debating of individual points to Khell and gautam.

long pig
lol exactly.
plus um....grrr...dammit!

leonidas
<<Not a clue, but if I were you I'd start debating it like there's no way in hell that he could (among other things).>>

<<lol exactly.
plus um....grrr...dammit!>>

HA! and ditto.

(interlude) - by the way, it's nice to read a thread that DOESN'T want to make me scream! that spidey/wolvie thread . . . brrrr -- sorry, had to get that off my chest. - (end interlude.)

back to the debating!

Scoobless
Originally posted by long pig
What are the rules of us watching???
Can I talk?
Or should I just let them fight?

i would think we should jump in if we think someone's strategy is against the rules...... but not offer any new attack plans or counter strategies

ie.... Khells reference to his character history and having full command of all his abilities..... i'm working under the assumption that the amalgams are newly created and have only the 1 or 2 hours given to try and find out their new abilities...... therefore you have to show how the prep time would be used to gain any level of control over your "mind" characters new powers

DigiMark007
Hmmm....leaving for the night but voting probably wouldn't be necessary yet.

Has anyone PM'd gautam? Maybe he doesn't understand what's going on, since he was on this thread, but didn't make much of an effort. If nothing happens, I'll probably PM him tomorrow morning or something, but I don't have the time right now...

-DM

stormfront13
well..... is anyone going to debate on why their character should win?? or at least do anything!?!?

K Von Doom
Originally posted by Khellendros
What, are you gonna name a flying brick Dr. Fate? I don't think so. It's either magic or precognition. And if it was precognition he'd find out pretty damn quick that that was the case if his opponent knew every move he was going to make.

Take it easy, i was just asking. embarrasment

Scoobless
Originally posted by Khellendros
What, are you gonna name a flying brick Dr. Fate? I don't think so. It's either magic or precognition.

not necessarily...... he may just be a cocky bastard who thinks that his victories are fated... someone who doesn't believe it's possible to lose...... or it could just be his actual name.... ie Dr Strange

Khellendros
Evangel said only one mind could be in control of all the powers, but she didn't specify how long each characters would have possessed those powers before the fight. And, she said we could write up character histories and bios for our characters, meaning that they could have existed, powers and all, for a significant amount of time. They could have even grown up with them.

I know the Juggernaut is supposedly unstoppable, but has he EVER come up against someone who tried to stop him with a kinetic energy drain? The harder he works to move, the more it feeds me, and the more powerful I become. And, I don't have to stop him completely, just slow him down considerably. Just to keep him from struggling while I put him down.

K Von Doom: Sorry if I came across as harsh, I was pissed cause I couldn't sleep and pretty grumpy (it was 7 am here at that time).

Scoobless
Originally posted by Khellendros
Evangel said only one mind could be in control of all the powers, but she didn't specify how long each characters would have possessed those powers before the fight. And, she said we could write up character histories and bios for our characters, meaning that they could have existed, powers and all, for a significant amount of time. They could have even grown up with them.

but she did shoot down your "Blackstrom boosted by terrigen mists" idea..... i don't know for certain that these are all newly amalgamated.... but that's the way it sounds so far

guess Evangel needs to make the call

Khellendros
Originally posted by Scoobless
but she did shoot down your "Blackstrom boosted by terrigen mists" idea..... i don't know for certain that these are all newly amalgamated.... but that's the way it sounds so far

guess Evangel needs to make the call
I know she shot that one bit down. But whether she meant to or not, she did leave a loophole in the rules. I can't take Black Bolt's experience to use in Blackstrom, but I can give Majestic Black Bolt's powers shortly after birth to gain his own experience with those powers.

stormfront13
we could do that!?!?!

Khellendros
Originally posted by stormfront13
we could do that!?!?!
laughing
Well, I just did. And I posted my amalgam's history way back when the Confirmation thread was up, so every participant and Evangel herself had a chacne to read it.

gautam
ok....first of all in my prep time....dr fates mind....figures out that that he is industructible and cannot be stoped(juggernaut)....he also figures out he has superstrength, flight, faster then light speed, and heatvision....because of the dr fates mind.....he doesnt have the will power problem of gladiator.....anyways....the moment the fight starts....Dr. Cain zips up to your charecter at faster then light speed....instead of hitting you phiscally....thus making ure charecter stronger....he unleashes chaos magic on your charecter.....and hits you with his heat vision....making harder to escape....once ure very weak from the magical attack a few class 100 punches at blitz speed will put down charecter...

stormfront13
do you think we are still allowed to post our characters history somewhere

Khellendros
Originally posted by gautam
ok....first of all in my prep time....dr fates mind....figures out that that he is industructible and cannot be stoped(juggernaut)....he also figures out he has superstrength, flight, faster then light speed, and heatvision....because of the dr fates mind.....he doesnt have the will power problem of gladiator.....anyways....the moment the fight starts....Dr. Cain zips up to your charecter at faster then light speed....instead of hitting you phiscally....thus making ure charecter stronger....he unleashes chaos magic on your charecter.....and hits you with his heat vision....making harder to escape....once ure very weak from the magical attack a few class 100 punches at blitz speed will put down charecter...
Okay. Couple things wrong with that.

Yes, you can fly at super speed, but your brain can't process that fast. Since Majestic is on a similar level speedwise, and has the reactions to match, by the time your brain would catch up to your rate of speed, Blackstrom would be somewhere else entirely.

Then there's my kinetic drain. The harder you push yourself, the stronger I get, while still keeping you slow as molasses. Hell, I could drain you, make you struggle REALLY hard to move, then suddenly stop draining and soften the ground right behind us with matter manipulation. Then I just grab you by the shoulders and use your own massive speed to slam you deep into the ground, which would then harden, trapping you in an indestructible prison.

Stormfront: I dunno, she said in the Confirmation thread that that was where we were supposed to post our character histories. If I could have waited till now to post it I would have, since I risked someone objecting to it by posting it so long before my fight.

stormfront13
oh i didn't know she said that, i think others will want to write down histories also so maybe she will give a second chance

gautam
Okay. Couple things wrong with that.

Yes, you can fly at super speed, but your brain can't process that fast. Since Majestic is on a similar level speedwise, and has the reactions to match, by the time your brain would catch up to your rate of speed, Blackstrom would be somewhere else entirely.

Then there's my kinetic drain. The harder you push yourself, the stronger I get, while still keeping you slow as molasses. Hell, I could drain you, make you struggle REALLY hard to move, then suddenly stop draining and soften the ground right behind us with matter manipulation. Then I just grab you by the shoulders and use your own massive speed to slam you deep into the ground, which would then harden, trapping you in an indestructible prison.

how are u going to counter chaos magic.....and even if you put me in the ground...im sure fates magic could just teleport me right out of it...

Khellendros
Originally posted by gautam
how are u going to counter chaos magic.....and even if you put me in the ground...im sure fates magic could just teleport me right out of it...
Just saying "chaos magic" is very unclear. What does it DO? What specific spell is he casting? If he loses his helmet, he's severely weakened, since it houses Nabu, who he draws his power from. Since I tore your helmet off as my first move in the fight, your magic is crippled.

I react faster than you, I have taken your magic by removing your helmet and I am keeping you moving at a snails pace with kinetic drain. And, I just jammed you into an unbreakable prison. You are in severe trouble.

long pig
I dont think we are talking about the original Dr Fate.

gautam
attualy Fate learned how to do magic without his helmet on.....also if you come close enough to take my helmet of i would simply rip you apart....my charecter has the stregnth of gladitor and juggernaut he out powers you....also knowing that your charecter had information on mine....i would simply put up a force field of magic and attack you with spells from the other side of it.....from the other side of it I could summon magical creatures and send them to attack you....also I could very quickly teleport outside of the sheild....right behind you...while you are busy with my creatures....and hit you with a very powerful punch....then teleport back into the sheild....and repeat this till you die.....I am pretty sure you cant drain magical creatures...be cause they do not follow the laws of phisics....

Khellendros
Originally posted by gautam
attualy Fate learned how to do magic without his helmet on.....also if you come close enough to take my helmet of i would simply rip you apart....my charecter has the stregnth of gladitor and juggernaut he out powers you....also knowing that your charecter had information on mine....i would simply put up a force field of magic and attack you with spells from the other side of it.....from the other side of it I could summon magical creatures and send them to attack you....also I could very quickly teleport outside of the sheild....right behind you...while you are busy with my creatures....and hit you with a very powerful punch....then teleport back into the sheild....and repeat this till you die.....I am pretty sure you cant drain magical creatures...be cause they do not follow the laws of phisics....
Actually, if I come close enough to rip your helmet off, it's getting ripped off, and before you can even react. I am way too fast for you to react to. Which means I can knock you out temporarily and jam you into the ground before you can even blink.

I'm sure I CAN drain magical creatures, because if they move, they have kinetic energy to drain. Hell, I can drain their kinetic energy and funnel that into a storm of biokinetic force to tear them apart while amping up my strength on electron power alone.

Juggernaut and Gladiator combined strength is stronger than my base strength, but with electron powers augmenting me, I started out this fight being ten times stronger than usual. That puts me far above you in strength. Teleporting is a bad idea, because I can turn and attack before you even realize the teleportation is over.

gautam
i dont understand how you base streanth is soo powerful...whos power is that

gautam
and one more thing that does not make sence is that how your charecter...even though being mr majestics mind can do maelstroms kinetic draing....it takes more time then 1 hr of preptime to learn it...and in the other treads there were many issues of how a charecter knw to use all his powers with only 1 mind...

Khellendros
Originally posted by gautam
i dont understand how you base streanth is soo powerful...whos power is that
Depends. If it's being increased with electron power, that would be Black Bolt. If it's kinetic energy, that would be Maelstroms power.


Originally posted by gautam
and one more thing that does not make sence is that how your charecter...even though being mr majestics mind can do maelstroms kinetic draing....it takes more time then 1 hr of preptime to learn it...and in the other treads there were many issues of how a charecter knw to use all his powers with only 1 mind...
I already explained this. In the Review and Confirmation thread, Evangel said we could create our own character histories, implying that the amalgams didn't have to receive their powers right before the fight. In the history I wrote and posted there, Majestic gained the other powers as a very young child. Thus, by the time of the fight, he has had a lifetime to learn how to use his powers. Basically, I found a loophole.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Khellendros
I already explained this. In the Review and Confirmation thread, Evangel said we could create our own character histories, implying that the amalgams didn't have to receive their powers right before the fight. In the history I wrote and posted there, Majestic gained the other powers as a very young child. Thus, by the time of the fight, he has had a lifetime to learn how to use his powers. Basically, I found a loophole.

While I would congratulate you on finding a loophole, part of me thinks this is wrong. This sort of thinking defeats the whole strategy of picking a "mind" from among your 3 characters, and also defeats most of the prep stuff. And the whole character history thing, I thought, was just for fun.

But rather than argue mindlessly, I'll PM Evangel and get back to everyone with the verdict.

-DM

long pig
I agree, loopholes are great but to me, it's just cheating, and it takes the fun out of it.
You may be right though.

Anyways, guantam needs to post more, I dont really think he knows too much about his characters though.
Don't get me wrong, if I was to see the loophole, I'd do the exact same thing.
Just to me see it more of word play and an actual loop hole....i dunno good luck though.

Scoobless
Originally posted by DigiMark007
While I would congratulate you on finding a loophole, part of me thinks this is wrong. This sort of thinking defeats the whole strategy of picking a "mind" from among your 3 characters, and also defeats most of the prep stuff. And the whole character history thing, I thought, was just for fun.

yeah, i agree..... if the history thing wasn't strictly for fun then it would have been a mandatory part of the tournament.... it wasn't and most people didn't post one.... (i think)

the whole point of having the prep time is because the characters are newly formed

stormfront13
yeah the whole history and mastery over your powers puts you ahead of everyone else in this, so imo we should all have one or no one has one

Scoobless
if your going to argue semantics and loopholes then you should realise you only get the mind of Mr Majestic... not Mr Blackstrom

smile

Khellendros
Originally posted by Scoobless
if your going to argue semantics and loopholes then you should realise you only get the mind of Mr Majestic... not Mr Blackstrom

smile
I do realize that. This is Mr. Majestic's mind, having grown up with these other powers as well. The Majestros personality is still present, he's just more powerful than he is in comics.

Evangel94
Originally posted by Khellendros
Depends. If it's being increased with electron power, that would be Black Bolt. If it's kinetic energy, that would be Maelstroms power.



I already explained this. In the Review and Confirmation thread, Evangel said we could create our own character histories, implying that the amalgams didn't have to receive their powers right before the fight. In the history I wrote and posted there, Majestic gained the other powers as a very young child. Thus, by the time of the fight, he has had a lifetime to learn how to use his powers. Basically, I found a loophole.

No.

I allowed you to post your history of your character for creative reasons, but in this fight the amalgams are created on the spot and are only allowed 1 hour to prepare and discover their powers.

Khellendros
laughing Oh well, it was worth a try.

As soon as he gets his powers, Blackstrom slowly feels his strength increasing. A look around with micrscopic vision shows him that he is drawing free electrons into himself from all around. He also sees that things are slowing down on a subatomic scale. He's sapping kinetic energy right out of the air.

First thing he tries is bettering his defense. For the first twenty minutes of his prep, he finds he can create force fields around himself and other things. Hammering on them gives him a good sense of their strength. Blackstrom also find out, by accident, about his voice. One destroyed landscape later, he's figured out it gets stronger the louder he whispers/speaks/yells.

For the next twenty minutes, he practice drawing in as much kinetic and electron energy as he can, firing itt of in blasts and creating biokinetic maelstroms around himself. He also discovers that abosrbing more eelctron energy in certain parts of his body increases things like speed and physical durability as well as strength.

At the end of that twenty minutes, it occurs to him that if he can control electrons this well, things like neural disruption/control, magnetic fields and even matter manipulation might be within the realm of his power. The final fifteen minutes is spent turning pockets of air into chunks of steel and stone, softening them without the use of heat, and turning them back to air. His microscopic vision helps him perfect these techniques faster, since he can watch the changes take place on the atomic level.

With the last five minutes of prep, Blackstrom amps his strength and speed, and launches into the strategy I posted earlier. He uses his newfound kinetic draining against Dr. Kallark, tears off his helmet, then either uses his full scream at point blank range, or jams him into the ground.

DigiMark007
Question Khell...

I like the strategy and all, but where in any of your powers can you manipulate matter like that? Black Bolt's elctron stuff seems limited to his scream, augmenting himself, and creating shields and stuff (at least from Marvel's bio, which doesn't even mention matter manipulation), and I don't know much about Majestic but I didn't think he had those sort of powers either.

Sorry to be "knocking you down" during your battle but air-into-steel just shocked the heck out of me.

-DM

long pig
I do feel like we are jumping him, but I was going to say the same.

Steel into air?
C'mon.
Also, screaming takes as much out of BB as it does to others, so by screaming, you totally weaken your guy for the on coming fight.

Khellendros
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I like the strategy and all, but where in any of your powers can you manipulate matter like that? Black Bolt's elctron stuff seems limited to his scream, augmenting himself, and creating shields and stuff (at least from Marvel's bio, which doesn't even mention matter manipulation), and I don't know much about Majestic but I didn't think he had those sort of powers either.

Sorry to be "knocking you down" during your battle but air-into-steel just shocked the heck out of me.
Did you read the link I posted for him? http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/terrigenmist/BlackBolt.html

"He can also affect things at the molecular level with this power since he can modify electrons either free standing or bound within a substance. Black Bolt's has the ability to transform matter with this power. The amount of mass that he can transform has not been determined"

Off the top of my head, some feats of matter manipulation: created an anti-matter bomb to use against a massively powered up Graviton, in a flashback was shown to create toys like rattles and bells and such when he was still in the crib, softened the ground under Mandarin which caused him to sink, made the air around a villain too thin to breathe, created a robe out of thin air for the Thing.


Originally posted by long pig
Also, screaming takes as much out of BB as it does to others, so by screaming, you totally weaken your guy for the on coming fight.
Since when?

DigiMark007
k...cool. The first time I tried to access the link you provided it didn't work. That's why I tried Marvel's bio. I stand convinced.

-DM

Khellendros
Originally posted by DigiMark007
k...cool. The first time I tried to access the link you provided it didn't work. That's why I tried Marvel's bio. I stand convinced.

Cool. smile

EDIT: Thught I'd give people an idea of the power his forcefield has. The bio says a field can deflect the full mass of an MX missile traveling at top speed.

The Peacekeeper (MX) ICBM:

Weight 195,000 lbs (88,450 kg)
Length 70 ft 10 in (21.6 m)
Diameter 92 in (2.34 m)
Range Over 6830 mi. (over 11,000 km); 6000 mi (9600 km)
Speed 15,000 miles/hour (24,000 km/hr; 6.7 km/sec)

DigiMark007
Alright, well voting has to start sometime, right?

I'm hoping gautam comes back on and gives me more to think about, but for now, I vote for Khellendros. He's the only one this battle with a completely thought-out plan and decent counter-arguments (and I have yet to see someone show and/or tell me exactly what Dr. Fate can do).

Also hoping to move things along...I'm getting anxious for my match to start and to get the first round completed. So I vote Khell.

-DM

long pig
Since always, Black Bolt always nearly passes out or gets extremely weak when he yells or does more than a whisper.
Check the issue where he fights Hulk, after basically a loud whisper he callapses.
Thats one major reason why he doesn't use it all the time.

I'm going to wait for Gautam to say something, because the guy hasn't really even tried, so you'll more than likely get my vote.
Tomorrow.

Khellendros
Originally posted by long pig
Check the issue where he fights Hulk, after basically a loud whisper he callapses.
Uhh, which issue? They've fought a few times.

long pig
I'll have to find it, it's been posted on the BB vs Hulk thread.

It's common knowledge BB is weakened when he uses his voice.

I won't add anything else or I'll be helping G'.

Scoobless
Originally posted by Khellendros
I do realize that. This is Mr. Majestic's mind, having grown up with these other powers as well. The Majestros personality is still present, he's just more powerful than he is in comics.

the Mr Majestic you chose for the tournament was not a Blackstrom variation.... nothing about Black Bolt's abilities in the bio you provided.... Mr Majestic and Mr Blackstrom clearly have different histories and abilities.... they are not the same character

good try though

stick out tongue

K Von Doom
Gautam hasn't really made an argument yet, so I think I'll wait till he comes back before I vote.

Scoobless
Originally posted by K Von Doom
Gautam hasn't really made an argument yet, so I think I'll wait till he comes back before I vote.

same here

gautam
ok...well first of all...im sry that ive been gone...i have finals and shit....so many things to do.....k well first of all...u talk about screaming....JUGGERNAUT IS INVUNRABLE....it wont hurt him.....even thors godblast didnt hurt him......if u try to put me into the ground ill just teleport right out of it....none of the things u said could hurt me.....after that.....when u said that i can go at gladiators speeds....and yet only have the reaction time of fate....that wouldnt be possible....a nerve impulse has to be givin to the muscle to react before it can move....and so if i can move at light speed....then just the same....the nerve impulses in my brain would have the same speed and so i would be able to react at light speed.....by saying that....i could easily put a sheild around me and attack you at light speed....speed bltz you....and attack you with full power blasts of mystical energy.....

gautam
ure duribility isnt much compared to juggernauts...then if u add the strength of gladiators and juggys into punchs....thats very very high....and it would take u out....add all of this to fates mystical energy blasts....and his power to create objects that he could easily throw at you.....not to mention...he could create a sheild around you....that moves around with you...and bends with you(so you cant break it).....to prevent you from absorving energy from surrouding electrons....then fly at you with amazing speed.....then once hes close enough stop the force feild....and one punch....without ure added kinetic power....would take you out....

Scoobless
Originally posted by gautam
ure duribility isnt much compared to juggernauts...then if u add the strength of gladiators and juggys into punchs....thats very very high....and it would take u out...

you only get the strength of one of your strongest character.... you don't just add one to another.... unless you can somehow use (and explain how to use) one of their natural abilities to increase their strength above their base level.......either of their strength levels are still very high regardless of enhancements

stormfront13
well wouldn't he have juggernauts strength then he only gets stronger the more confident he gets?

Scoobless
i've never seen any evidence of Gladiator gaining strength through confidence variation.... only losing it

stormfront13
i've read it in a bunch of bios, and you can't really see him getting stronger in comics or anything

Scoobless
you could if he did.... i.e if he can't do something to start with, then later gaining more confidence and being able to do it

however if he fails the first time he would only lose confidence

i can't see this amalgam gaining strength through battle

stormfront13
well what i meant that if he is lifting something you really can't tell if he is getting stronger or something

Scoobless
Originally posted by stormfront13
well what i meant that if he is lifting something you really can't tell if he is getting stronger or something

i understand.... but theoretically.... if he can lift it to start with there's no reason he would get stronger.... if he can't lift it his confidence would drop and he'd get weaker

i doubt his strength could increase during a battle

Dizzle
Wait, is the Black Bolt scream physical though? Cuz Juggernaut is very susceptible to psionics and such, so if the scream actually affects the brain (connected to his electron powers or something) then Juggernaut should be hurt by it just fine.

stormfront13
my vote goes to khellendros

Dizzle
Mine would but SOMEONE made a february 05 and before cutoff date...

stormfront13
lol well i'm in the tourney so either way it doesn't matter

K Von Doom
The clock must be winding down on this fight so my initial vote will to to Khellendros, might change though

Khellendros
Originally posted by gautam
u talk about screaming....JUGGERNAUT IS INVUNRABLE....it wont hurt him.....even thors godblast didnt hurt him.....
Hard enough impacts can stun him. We're talking taking destructive power surpassing that of a nuclear warhead point blank into his head/ears. If NOTHING else, the sheer level of sound would knock him on his ass, since sensory attacks do work.

Originally posted by gautam
if u try to put me into the ground ill just teleport right out of it....none of the things u said could hurt me.....after that.....when u said that i can go at gladiators speeds....and yet only have the reaction time of fate....that wouldnt be possible....a nerve impulse has to be givin to the muscle to react before it can move
No, you don't have the reaction time of Fate, you have the reaction time of Juggs, since it's his body you're inhabiting. I know how nerve impulses work, the point is, normal human impulses don't travel anywhere near fast enough to react to Flash/Superman level speeds.

Originally posted by gautam
....and so if i can move at light speed....then just the same....the nerve impulses in my brain would have the same speed and so i would be able to react at light speed.....by saying that....i could easily put a sheild around me and attack you at light speed....speed bltz you....and attack you with full power blasts of mystical energy.....
Ummm, no. Juggernaut is not a speedster, he has a normal human nervous system, albeit one protected by magic from the gem. He is no faster than the average man, reaction-wise. You have the ability to move your body at faster than light speeds, but your brain can't keep up with that. Blackstrom's can. And, with me constantly siphoning your body's kinetic energy, you can't even move you body at high speed.

Originally posted by gautam
ure duribility isnt much compared to juggernauts...then if u add the strength of gladiators and juggys into punchs....thats very very high....and it would take u out....
Strength doesn't matter if you can only move your arm at a snail's pace. It won't take me out, becuase you'll never land a punch.

Originally posted by Scoobless
you only get the strength of one of your strongest character.... you don't just add one to another.... unless you can somehow use (and explain how to use) one of their natural abilities to increase their strength above their base level.......either of their strength levels are still very high regardless of enhancements
Wow, I didn't realize that. I'm glad I only picked one super strong character. I'd have been pissed if I had picked, say, Majestros and some other high end brick and only got to use one character's strength...

Originally posted by Dizzle
Wait, is the Black Bolt scream physical though? Cuz Juggernaut is very susceptible to psionics and such, so if the scream actually affects the brain (connected to his electron powers or something) then Juggernaut should be hurt by it just fine.
It's energy. It's not pure sonic energy, though it DOES make a lot of noise as a side effect. It's some kind of unknown energy that destroys objects on contact. It is related to his electron powers, though (according to the bio).

long pig
I dont think you could get passed Jugs shield in the first place Khell.

Khellendros
Originally posted by long pig
I dont think you could get passed Jugs shield in the first place Khell.
Well, Considering the fact that I'll be attacking him before he even realizes I've started moving, I'm not worried about getting to him before he throws a shield up.

gautam
k...so first i throw up a sheild.....then....when u come to attack me....i put a sheild barrier around you....that moves with you...and so u cant punch out of it....this prevents you from absorbing any power from neighboring electrons or atoms...because u cant touch them......while ure trying to get out of it and trying to hit me....ure loosing power....ure reaction time slows.....streath goes down....speed too.....then i just simply take aim....and fly at you.....at light speed.... like a bullet....i just simply fire at you and right before i leave to hit you....which is like nanasecond before i hit you....i take down that sheild....in the state that ure not that powerful....because of no way to aborb electron power....i simply slam into you at light speed....and with juggernauts body and weight....thats ganna be some very very powerful hit...then i stop and see ure knocked down for a while and fazed....then my charecter simply fires a burst of mystic energy....and ure down....

Khellendros
Originally posted by gautam
k...so first i throw up a sheild.....then....when u come to attack me....i put a sheild barrier around you....that moves with you...and so u cant punch out of it....this prevents you from absorbing any power from neighboring electrons or atoms...because u cant touch them......while ure trying to get out of it and trying to hit me....ure loosing power....ure reaction time slows.....streath goes down....speed too.....then i just simply take aim....and fly at you.....at light speed.... like a bullet....i just simply fire at you and right before i leave to hit you....which is like nanasecond before i hit you....i take down that sheild....in the state that ure not that powerful....because of no way to aborb electron power....i simply slam into you at light speed....and with juggernauts body and weight....thats ganna be some very very powerful hit...then i stop and see ure knocked down for a while and fazed....then my charecter simply fires a burst of mystic energy....and ure down....
Decent plan. Only problem is, before you can even think to throw up that shield, I've shorted out your synapses which knocks you out cold and buried you in an indestructible prison.

long pig
He couldn't walk in with it already up?

Khellendros
Originally posted by long pig
He couldn't walk in with it already up?
My character didn't. And there was a fuss in the last battle when Stormfront wanted to.

gautam
k a couple of problems with ure arguement

BB's sonic scream wouldn't pass through Juggs shield.....you said itd do the same thing Nimrod did, but juggs said himself that if he had his shield up, it wouldn't have bothered him....Also, it didn't actually K.O him anyways, it just dazed him.

also ure charecter has BB's powers, but Majestics body.....if he uses BB's voice, it will hurt his body because his body isn't naturally immune to the power like Black Bolts is.

In the prep time....the last minute of it...id noe ure charecter....and so id put up a sheild....im sry u cant get to my helmet....cause u cant get through my sheild....then as soon as u come and try to hit me...i chant a few words...and presto...there is a coating around you....and now....you cant absorve power from any where.....without ure power to absorve....plus ud hurt ureself with the scream....ure just sitting there....trying to hit me....u cant get through my sheild...and so ure just wasting energy....then like i said....i take aim...and ram right into ure low powered self....then being dazzed.....i give you a strong dose of mystic energy....ure done....

plus my body would be able to react, as long as my mind can.

long pig
That came out of no where.
Very interesting.

gautam
and trust me....fates magickal bolts.....are shit powerful....and lets say u dont try to physical hurt me....id jst attack ure mind....fate has telepathy....he can reach ure mind and mess with it....mind raping is fun!

gautam
o yea.....and another thing....if u dont try to attack me...and say some how....some how...u mannage to deal with my telepathy....id just....quickly....undo ure shield....hit u with a magickal bolt....then put the shield right back on u....and u cant do anything.....i dont even have to move....so u cant kineticly drain me....then when uve got enough magical bolts...have had no electron power....no kinetic power from me....and cant use the scream....do like wat i said....the goring thing....ure dazzed....and i finish u....done

gautam
anyone like to rethink their votes? big grin Happy Dance

Khellendros
Originally posted by gautam
BB's sonic scream wouldn't pass through Juggs shield.....you said itd do the same thing Nimrod did, but juggs said himself that if he had his shield up, it wouldn't have bothered him....Also, it didn't actually K.O him anyways, it just dazed him.
One, it doesn't have to pass throught he shield, I'll be on you before you can throw your shield up. Two, I can bring more power to bear than Nimrod. The synapse attack was one of dozens of weapons Nimrod has, whereas BB is amster of electorn energy. He's weilds enough energy to power Attilan for huge periods of time. Imagine even a fraction of that being unleashed on Juggernaut's nervous system.

Originally posted by gautam
also ure charecter has BB's powers, but Majestics body.....if he uses BB's voice, it will hurt his body because his body isn't naturally immune to the power like Black Bolts is.
This argument is useless unless you can prove it's something about his body specifically that keeps him unhurt when he screams. Black Bolt could be unharmed when using his scream for many reasons. He could use his powers to shield himself. Or, it could simply be that the shockwave only travels outward andnever touches him.

Originally posted by gautam
In the prep time....the last minute of it...id noe ure charecter....and so id put up a sheild....im sry u cant get to my helmet....cause u cant get through my sheild....then as soon as u come and try to hit me...i chant a few words...and presto...there is a coating around you....and now....you cant absorve power from any where.....without ure power to absorve....plus ud hurt ureself with the scream....ure just sitting there....trying to hit me....u cant get through my sheild...and so ure just wasting energy....then like i said....i take aim...and ram right into ure low powered self....then being dazzed.....i give you a strong dose of mystic energy....ure done....
No, you won't know my character. You will know their names. And their names don't tell you jack about their powers. The nanosecond the fight is on, you're getting taken down. Thus you have NO chance of throwing up a shield, chanting a spell (kinda hard to speak when your jaw are paralyzed by kinetic drain just like the rest of your body) or any other thing other than fall down.

Originally posted by gautam
and trust me....fates magickal bolts.....are shit powerful....and lets say u dont try to physical hurt me....id jst attack ure mind....fate has telepathy....he can reach ure mind and mess with it....mind raping is fun!
Telepathy won't do d!ck. Majestic is a telepath and has excellent mental defenses. Add to that Black Bolt's mastery over electrons, including the ones zipping aorund in his own brain, and your telepathy is useless too.

And magickal bolts? Yeah, he fires those from his hands. Kind of hard to aim at a superspeed character when I'm doing my kinetic draining mojo.

Originally posted by gautam
o yea.....and another thing....if u dont try to attack me...and say some how....some how...u mannage to deal with my telepathy....id just....quickly....undo ure shield....hit u with a magickal bolt....then put the shield right back on u....and u cant do anything.....i dont even have to move....so u cant kineticly drain me....then when uve got enough magical bolts...have had no electron power....no kinetic power from me....and cant use the scream....do like wat i said....the goring thing....ure dazzed....and i finish u....done
Undo my shield? Right. You keep forgetting, your brain is so slow, you won't even see me, much less have time to cast a spell. And yes you DO have to move. Every time I've seen Fate, he always has his arms positioned when casting a spell. He needs to be able to speak and move his arms to cast most of his spells.

gautam
Originally posted by Khellendros
One, it doesn't have to pass throught he shield, I'll be on you before you can throw your shield up. Two, I can bring more power to bear than Nimrod. The synapse attack was one of dozens of weapons Nimrod has, whereas BB is amster of electorn energy. He's weilds enough energy to power Attilan for huge periods of time. Imagine even a fraction of that being unleashed on Juggernaut's nervous system.


This argument is useless unless you can prove it's something about his body specifically that keeps him unhurt when he screams. Black Bolt could be unharmed when using his scream for many reasons. He could use his powers to shield himself. Or, it could simply be that the shockwave only travels outward andnever touches him.


No, you won't know my character. You will know their names. And their names don't tell you jack about their powers. The nanosecond the fight is on, you're getting taken down. Thus you have NO chance of throwing up a shield, chanting a spell (kinda hard to speak when your jaw are paralyzed by kinetic drain just like the rest of your body) or any other thing other than fall down.


Telepathy won't do d!ck. Majestic is a telepath and has excellent mental defenses. Add to that Black Bolt's mastery over electrons, including the ones zipping aorund in his own brain, and your telepathy is useless too.

And magickal bolts? Yeah, he fires those from his hands. Kind of hard to aim at a superspeed character when I'm doing my kinetic draining mojo.


Undo my shield? Right. You keep forgetting, your brain is so slow, you won't even see me, much less have time to cast a spell. And yes you DO have to move. Every time I've seen Fate, he always has his arms positioned when casting a spell. He needs to be able to speak and move his arms to cast most of his spells.

Frist I repeat....I come into the fight with your shield up.

Secondly, yes BB is a master of of his powers, Majestic isn't, and you have his mind, not BB's. He couldn't do anything but the most simple of things with only two hours prep

Yes BB's body ALWAYS becomes weaker when he uses his powers, majestics body would handle it even WORSE.

I came into this fight with the sheild already up during prep time, and Fate doesn't have to say the spells out loud, only think them.

Also....and this is a BIGGIE....Jug has a huge amount of magical power, but he doesn't have the knowledge to release it....Since I have FATES mind, I.....as a master magician, can tap into these powers and almost be like trion jugs.....When jugs mind was inhabited by a good magician, he was able to use the full amount of his powers. Fate is just the person able to do this!

SO I have my shield up before i come into the fight...i put the sheild around you....so you cant absrove any power....then u cant use ure scream....then you now add trion juggys duribility and power....its amaazing.....i wait....and attack ure mind...make you tired....try to hit you with some magic bolts....you keep gettin tired....and ure not as fast strong or durible.....u cantdo much...then i release the sheild...hit you with a punch of trion juggys at light speed.....ure slow and weak so dont give me that i will dodge it crap......then if that doesnt take you out....magic bolts will....ure toast

long pig
Very good argument.
About damn time!!!!

Well, the last bit wasn't that great but I kinda see where you are going with it.
Hmm.....now I really don't freaking know.

Scoobless
what's "Trion Juggernaut" and is it comparable to the character being used here?

leonidas
ya know, this is why i picked gautam to win this tourney. some good arguments. i like the idea of fate being able to tap juggs magic power. certainly a possibility if it's not in some way breaching the rules. this is probably the best debate so far.

Scoobless
someone give me info on Trion Juggernaut and why he might have anything to do with this fight.... i'd look it up myself but i think it should be the combatants responsibility to provide character info..... plus i can't be bothered looking

Evangel94
Thread Closed to tournament participants.

Khellendros wins 3 to 0.

-Evangel

PS: The longer it takes for people to respond and vote the longer the thread will stay open. Even longer if one of the participants doesn't post initially. The first vote even took more than a day to appear.

stormfront13
is scarlet spider going to be starting with negative three or something? or like will have to get three votes to even get to zero because i don't think he even posetd his vote once

Scoobless
um...........ok.......... i was gonna vote soon...... was just waiting for a little more info

Evangel94
Originally posted by Scoobless
um...........ok.......... i was gonna vote soon...... was just waiting for a little more info

Sorry but votes are closed now. I've allowed more than enough to time than orginally planned for the thread.

No more responses please.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.